gamedever opened this issue on Apr 03, 2010 · 52 posts
gamedever posted Sat, 03 April 2010 at 10:20 PM
Ideally I'd find a spandex material for super hero outfits. And I mean real spandex, not the over-specularized versions in comic books. Anyone know?
Bagginsbill?
pakled posted Sat, 03 April 2010 at 11:38 PM
examples? I think you could do this everywhere from P5 on, in the material room..even use high--specularity examples by turning it down?
I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit
anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)
gamedever posted Sat, 03 April 2010 at 11:53 PM
gamedever posted Sat, 03 April 2010 at 11:54 PM
Notice how the specular is not pure white, but a brighter shade of the diffuse color. That's what I seek.
RobynsVeil posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 12:05 AM
According to Olivier at RNDA:
It is a very basic material. Red color with an anisotropic node in the alternate specular channel. Be cautious with the U and V scales. V = 1, U = 0.25. Intensity set to 1-2. That should do.
Also this thread if you're a BagginsBill groupie like I am.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
gamedever posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 12:17 AM
Seems to have worked, thanks RV. I'll keep experimenting with different light setups to see how that performs.
RobynsVeil posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 12:22 AM
Be sure to have raytracing on and set up your lights to have raytracing and not depth-mapped. Lots on raytracing here on the forum... very cool to use!
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
kobaltkween posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 2:06 AM
how does the guy's swimsuit look to you in this image: WIP: Dive? it uses one of my lycra shaders. i could probably get together a couple of colors of it if you like.
i still have to make a wet version. sigh. so much to do, so little time.
RobynsVeil posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 2:29 AM
Sheesh, YOUR Lycra shaders - as in, the one in Mix? Why didn't I think of that???
{Digging frantically in your Mix script...}
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
gamedever posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 2:54 AM
That'd be great, cobaltdream.
kobaltkween posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 4:07 AM
ok, my thought on colors would be:
if there are others you'd like, let me know in RGB numbers. that way there's no confusion over what color you mean. so, just to say, it will take me much longer to make it a proper package than not, because i'll have to render all of those shaders. do you want it before the materials get icons or will shrugging man annoy you? the question is most relevant because i was going to include these with a freebie i was working on. if you don't care, i'll probably just make them and give them to you, and render them when the clothes are done, but if you do then i'll have to figure out something to render fast.
oh, and just to let you know so it doesn't confuse you later, i make 4 versions of each color: GC w/ AO, GC with no AO, IDL ready, and plain. that way people from P6 to PP 2010 should be able to use them just fine. the main permutation i don't have is plain w/ AO, but i can add that if you think material based AO is that popular.
Robyn - yeah,it's the lycra that's now in my Basic script. i should send you my latest version, though. it's changed a lot since the last one i sent you.
RobynsVeil posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 4:17 AM
Is this community awesome or what?? How can one not love what options Poser proposes with the help of the incredibly bright and imaginative? (meaning you, m 
)
I'd love that new version of Mix (something new to bang the grey cells against, which I LOVE) when you get a minute, cobaltDream. And on a side note, thanks for the linearising IBL strategy: works a treat! Going to update the gallery posting with a link to "Danse S'y, la suite"... :biggrin:
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
gamedever posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 5:00 AM
Shrugging man doesn't bother me as I have matmatic. I use Poser 8, so no AO for me, and IDL all the way.
kobaltkween posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 5:12 AM
ok, so you have P8, and not PP 2010? i ask because the IDL solution is actually kind of tricky. it makes linearized and not corrected output. so if you use all IDL ready materials, your end result will look too dark and saturated unless you find a way to correct the final, post IDL results. you can do that with bagginsbill's Artistic Lens trick, or just figuring out a way to filter the final render. i don't have P8, so i can't test this process, but i think i would personally do the final render and then use the Artistic Lens trick on the render. that way i'd still get smoothing, not have to boost the raytrace bounces just for a post-production filter, and still get the final result i want. and i'd just use the Artistic Lens trick for test renders, where i could deal with the loss of smoothing and such, but would see accurate lighting. but it's non-trivially complex.
gamedever posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 5:14 AM
Yep, that's how I do it, too. I do not have 2010.
kobaltkween posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 5:20 AM
oh! and also a note: even though i'm saying GC, it's really sRGB correction. GC is an approximation, and the sRGB equations are slightly different though much more complex node-wise. GC gets really off towards the lower end of light, with sRGB being both darker and more saturated. you ever read people saying they don't use GC because it makes stuff look grey and washed out? well, it actually does do that. sRGB doesn't. not a big difference in even strong light of bright colors, but (imho) highly noticeable in any situation that has low light, which includes surface shadowing, cast shadows and diffuse colors. but people know GC now, so that's what i'm using as a label.
gamedever posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 5:28 AM
Indeed.
kobaltkween posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 5:51 AM
cool! sorry for over-explaining. i'm just so used to people not really getting why GC is even a good idea, let alone how to use it in various situations.
gamedever posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 5:57 AM
Hehe, I know the frustration well. sRGB for the win!
RobynsVeil posted Sun, 04 April 2010 at 7:01 AM
Quote - cool! sorry for over-explaining. i'm just so used to people not really getting why GC is even a good idea, let alone how to use it in various situations.
I'd say the bulk of Poserdom is still unclear about GC and that's if they're even remotely interested. Go farther afield (Daz) and you'd find even greater apathy. So much richness and potential patently ignored with a "huh?" "no clue" "no one seems to think it's important but you, so it can't be very important"...
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
kobaltkween posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 3:38 AM
gamedever posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 3:45 AM
Yep, that should work fine. Thank you!
kobaltkween posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 5:00 AM
ok, the zip file didn't seem to work. here's the link to the ShareCG
http://www.sharecg.com/v/40647/Material-and-Shader/Lycra
and just to give you the usage info:
Rights & Usage
Feel free to use these materials in both personal and commercial renders. You can redistribute the whole zip file without editing and if you provide attribution to me and link to my ShareCG page. You can include these materials in your own freebies if you provide attribution, including a link to my ShareCG page, as long as you add some of your own materials, props, clothes, figures, or other content. You can include derivatives (meaning you add your own changes to each item) of these freebies in commericial products as long as you provide attribution including a link on both your product description page and in your product files. All other rights are reserved.
gamedever posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 5:05 AM
Thanks! But it doesn't seem to have a download link, just an image view.
kobaltkween posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 5:47 AM
oh, that's just annoying. let me check again.
kobaltkween posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 5:50 AM
ok, it should be good now? let me know if you still have problems.
gamedever posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 6:05 AM
There we go. Thanks!
kobaltkween posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 6:07 AM
you're welcome!
kobaltkween posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 6:18 AM
oh! i forgot gold and silver. i think i'll add those to a shinier set.
gamedever posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 6:21 AM
Now, where would I plug in diffuse maps in this shader?
kobaltkween posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 6:38 AM
the simple answer is that i would probably need to change what i'm doing some. that is, i'd need to expose that more. RobynsVeil has been working on a script to order and organize nodes, so i could try something like that. or i could just try and make this parmatic ready. both would require me doing something i haven't done before, so i'd need a bit.
the (much) more complex answer would be to just find the simple color node that's providing the color, but i really wouldn't suggest that.
sorry, i just didn't think of it.
gamedever posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 6:43 AM
No worries, no hurry.
WandW posted Mon, 05 April 2010 at 6:58 AM
Quote - ok, the zip file didn't seem to work...
If you put .txt at the end of the zip file name, you can attach it to the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
kobaltkween posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 3:23 AM
ok, it's updated to have color, bump, and specular nodes set to the left of the main Poser Surface and labeled for easy access. i also added previews (no more shrugging man). and, well, the shader is very different, too, actually. better, imho. i'm still working on the metallics.
the link again is:
http://www.sharecg.com/v/40647/Material-and-Shader/Lycra
let me know if there's any problem getting to it, or using it. oh! and even though the white material's color node previews black, it makes a white shader because it's actually a hyper white. don't ask me why it looks black.
gamedever posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 5:36 AM
Aha! Thank you! Good work on this.
RobynsVeil posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 6:37 AM
Quote - ok, it's updated to have color, bump, and specular nodes set to the left of the main Poser Surface and labeled for easy access. i also added previews (no more shrugging man). and, well, the shader is very different, too, actually. better, imho. i'm still working on the metallics.
the link again is:
http://www.sharecg.com/v/40647/Material-and-Shader/Lycralet me know if there's any problem getting to it, or using it. oh! and even though the white material's color node previews black, it makes a white shader because it's actually a hyper white. don't ask me why it looks black.
Your script really works a treat, and the lycra materials are awesome, cobaltDream. Doing a render as we speak - hope to post it here in a bit.
About the only thing I did was copy (eyedropper) the colour from your SimpleColor node to the Diffuse_Color channel so that the colour would show up in preview.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
ThunderStone posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 6:38 AM
Been lurking and wanted to say thanks for the info.
===========================================================
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Poser: Poser 11.3 ...... Units: inches or meters depends on mood
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Image Editing: Corel Paintshop Pro
Renderer: Superfly, Firefly
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RobynsVeil posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 7:30 AM
Here it is:
So, the shader is in the leotard (and actually also in the shoes... shhh, don't tell anyone). :biggrin:
Her teeth look awful, though - any idea how to make them appear whiter? Sorry, OT, I know...
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
gamedever posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 7:58 AM
Give her a toohbrush. Duuuuuuh! wink
RobynsVeil posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 8:02 AM
Clever.
It's a shadows issue: I'm using raytraced shadows on pointlights. Would you have any light settings suggestions to lessen that shadow effect over her teeth?
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
gamedever posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 8:05 AM
Actually it looks more like a material issue. I'd increase the diffuse's color map a tad to compensate, unless the color map's teeth are really that unhygenic.
RobynsVeil posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 8:37 AM
No, the teeth colourMap is like any other. Diffuse(.85). Diffuse() should never be set to 1, according to BB. What I did end up doing was to move the Clay node: it's now Blender-paired with the ImageMap, output is then linearised, then it goes into a CoE-ed Diffuse node set at .85, and that's added to specular before gamma-correcting. Like so:
which changes this:
to this:
I can live with those teeth... those shadows are acceptable.
ETA: sorry to hijack your thread... we can go back to lycra, now.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
RobynsVeil posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 8:44 AM
oops... Clay() is like a replacement for Diffuse(), isn't it? ... so I took Diffuse(1, .85) out completely, leaving Clay(1, .7, .3) to act in its capacity. And got:
No clue if I'm even on the right track here...
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
RobynsVeil posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 9:06 AM
No clue if I'm even on the right track here... oh, and yes, I CoE-ed... plugged that Subtract() coming from the Glossy() into the Kd channel. This is breaking new ground. I hate doing this without a net... :scared:
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Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
bagginsbill posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 9:26 AM
Clay is a lighting node. Use it instead of Diffuse, not in addition to.
Your color map should go into the Clay node. The Clay node should be CoE'd
Not saying you should use clay for teeth - just sayin how to use clay node.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
kobaltkween posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 10:10 AM
i'm very glad to know that the shader is useful! sorry about the preview. the problem is that it takes so little for something not to show up in preview, even though material room shows it will. and the preview is wildly off in any case.
RobynsVeil posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 3:35 PM
This is very true, cobaltDream. It seems odd to me that plugging simpleColor() into the Diffuse_Color channel doesn't produce a colour change in preview, whilst plugging an imageMap into same channel does. Doesn't make sense to me, but then, I'm quite certain I'm not in possession of all the facts surrounding that Diffuse_Color channel.
Not to further hijack the thread - I do keep doing this! Sorry! - here's the shader for the teeth:
...and thank you for confirming what I've discovered... I'm sure if I had read a bit more (so MUCH to read on here! by BB) I would have picked that up.
One more reason why I feel so strongly this forum isn't the best way to get the message across... those that know keep repeating themselves even to those who have searched.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
hborre posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 3:47 PM
Robyn, I'm almost tempted to suggest a Gc problem with the teeth material.
RobynsVeil posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 4:32 PM
Feel free, HBorre. I'm open to suggestions. I've never used Clay() before, so if you see anything amiss, I'd appreciate suggestions on how to fix.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
kobaltkween posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 4:48 PM
before you decide the problem is the shader rather than your expectations, i'd suggest using the shader in an image where you actually duplicate an unaltered image. pretty much everything in the media is altered, and our expectations have completely skewed accordingly. it may be that with that lighting angle, her teeth would be shadowed by her lips to that point.
metallic spandex is in development. i think the shaders are done, so i'm rendering stuff now.
RobynsVeil posted Sat, 10 April 2010 at 4:57 PM
Quote - before you decide the problem is the shader rather than your expectations, i'd suggest using the shader in an image where you actually duplicate an unaltered image. pretty much everything in the media is altered, and our expectations have completely skewed accordingly. it may be that with that lighting angle, her teeth would be shadowed by her lips to that point.
metallic spandex is in development. i think the shaders are done, so i'm rendering stuff now.
I'm rendering atm as well - thank goodness for my lappie. It's the tulle - just chews through render cycles. Might have to bring this into P8 and see if it goes any faster.
The 3 images above were rendered with exactly the same lighting. My expectation was the last image... the first image was a detail of that first render.
Just so you have a bit more information to work with: lights... 3 point-lights, pos x=200 inches apart, y=150 inches, intensity 40%, ray-traced shadows. I think the pink lycra looks lovely on this outfit! Well Done! Can't wait for the metalic spandex... this is incredibly good material, cobaltDream!
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
kobaltkween posted Sat, 17 April 2010 at 11:03 PM
ok, that took much, much longer than i intended. too much tweaking. and i learned there's some aspect of my positioning script i don't quite understand. but you can find the metallic lycra materials as freebies at ShareCG. please let me know what you think, and if you find them useful. they incorporate real reflections, so it's best to give them a real environment to reflect. a simple room will suffice.