V3, M3, V4, M4, etc.
I'm sure some people use the characters P7 and Poser8 come bundled with but personally, when i used to use P6 i never used the female. I did use James, he's good but that's it.

Everything else was Daz characters, and i'm sure many other people do the same cause I mostly see DAZ characters stuff in freebies, in forum questions, in foreign poser sites etc.

Are bundle characters not getting good marketting or why aren't people using them that much and also why doesn't the company that makes Poser just bundle POSER with at least 50 characters they make themselves?

You basically gave three answers to your own question.  Poser is tied to Shade which is tied to anime which equates to non-sexy which results in old fogees still using Poser.

DAZ Studio is tied to V4 which is tied to better morphing and better clothing (or lack of clothing) for the better morphing which results in sexier sells figures.  The younger crowd just wants to render neked chicks.  And V4 is free.  Studio is free.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

that and the Poser bundled figures seem to be freakily proportioned

TemplarGFX
3D Hobbyist since 1996
I use poser native units

167 Car Materials for Poser

The most obvious reason seems to be all the free stuff that is available for the Daz characters. That makes them versatile, but I am still bored with the sameness of all the V4 renders out there. I plan to use the Poser characters more to get some variety in my images. I started with the G2 characters and have already spent the money on skins and clothes, so I might as well use them.

Poser 11 Pro, Windows 10

Auxiliary Apps: Blender 2.79, Vue Complete 2016, Genetica 4 Pro, Gliftex 11 Pro, CorelDraw Suite X6, Comic Life 2, Project Dogwaffle Howler 8, Stitch Witch

I think the Poser characters are improving a lot now. Considering too they are more user friendly to Poser than others, that is a plus as well.

It is probably better using the Daz characters in Daz Studio..just my opinion though

Actually, I'd like to do more with the Poser-bundled human figures (those that came with Poser 7 and 8 and Poser Pro 2010), as well as with the Miki2 and TeraiYuki2 figures, and Apollo Maximus.  
I feel the need to expand my repertoire. 

Eternal Hobbyist

 

Remapped V4, Remapped V2, & Remapped Turai Yuki2!  Guess which is which! dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

Remapped Posette & Dork in scenes from my *Emberglow* series.  I wouldn't touch V4 for this kind of work, even if paid.  She's a behemoth when it comes to resource usage. dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

"The younger crowd just wants to render neked chicks. " 

A crude generalization which ignores the many young people of delicate sensibilities and the many older folks who have horned - excuse me - honed their skills rendering countless naked Posettes and Vickies. I don't think the notion that anime can't be sexy holds water by any means either :-)

Since the original Poser figures were created by Zygote which spun off Daz, I don't think it's too remarkable that they lead the market. They've been at it a long time, they've got good marketing, a good return policy, etc. Some folks don't care for the products, but they obviously appeal to many, and that popularity translates into increased 3rd party support. IMO rather than bundling 50 figures, SM would be better served by including more accessories for the figures they have.  Apart from making a really cool orgy scene, 50 or 20 or 10 figures wouldn't  be that useful without clothing, characters, hair, etc.. Yes, I know you can convert, morph, tweak and so on, but many people want pre-built content. Daz caters to this and does a good business at it by all indications.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

I'd imagine it's probably because most users got DAZ figures long before they got P6 or higher (P4 days myself) and so had lots of content already which they continue to use, and when figures were updated it was a natural migration.
Also the fact that DAZ figures have much more items available than the native Poser figures means that's what people tend to see in the galleries and so you get the 'hmm, they used DAZ figures to do that pic, that means I need to use them too' mentality. (Similar to other pusuits, ie, photography where amateurs see a great pic was taken with a such'n'such camera/lens combo and so think they need the same to take that type of photo, whereas we all know it's not always the equipment, it's the user.)

 ok dave, when are you going to release your "how to" tutorial of your magic? :)

 ok dave, when are you going to release your "how to" tutorial of your magic? :)

Quote -  ok dave, when are you going to release your "how to" tutorial of your magic? :)

What magic?  It's all blood, sweat, toil, & tears!!!  1st I remapped them to take v3 & M3 textures, and THAT does a lot to make them look more like your latest & greatest from DAZ.  And, if you click on my Homepage and look at my Artist Input/Freestuff, you'll find all my Posette & Dork remaps there!  Plus a remap of the P4 Horse to take MilHorse textures, which goes a LONG way to improve him! (I learned in my 3ds Max class that TEXTURE was a LOT more important than Polygon count!).  Then, there's posing.  Again something I learned in 3ds Max class was the 1:2 ratio of bending joints.  An example of this is bending Posette & Dork's neck and head: for ever 10 degrees bend of neck, there should be 20 degrees bend of head, etc.  Raising the arm, 1st you raise the collar, then the shoulder, etc.  Everything should flow naturally.
dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

Quote - that and the Poser bundled figures seem to be freakily proportioned

The DAZ characters are hardly the norm, either.

A big factor is price of accessories.  The included Poser figures don't come with much in the way of morphs.  You can use them in the Face Room and shape them with magnets, but how many really do that routinely?

Back in the day, to get the face and body morph sets for Jessie or James, or G2 Syd or Simon cost at least $40 per scharacter.  In the case of V4, (before she was free)  I picked up  a bundle with her, her morphs, some textures, some clothes and hair and shoes for $17.

RDNA has morph sets on sale now for around $6 each, but if they had been cheaper in the first place, I think the Poser figures would have been a lot more popular...

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“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
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Daz got the love of the public because:

1. The Poser figures were just that bad. No morphs, hardly any clothes, etc. as mentioned before.

2. Daz brilliant marketing strategy of giving the people what they wanted (imagine that?).

3. And by getting people in the one place they couldn't resist - in their pocketbooks. Daz made Poser content "cheap" and consequently drove prices into the basement where they remain today. This is at the same time a blessing and a curse: while they definitely got more sales (volume) because of that, they cut their own profit margin and now have little money for further development on the very figures that made them what they are ;o). While it's nice for us, the users, to get things free, it costs the company money...lol. Now that the release of the Kids and less Poser compatibility has caused an uproar, I just hope no one's shot themselves in the foot ;o).

Laurie

Anime can be a lot sexier than "realism" for those of us who can't bridge the
Uncanny Valley!

My python page
My ShareCG freebies

At the risk of getting slapped down again...

Many people, like myself, are NOT adept at creating our own content. (I can't model worth squat!) Therefore, I bought and used those characters that had the greatest amount of content available to go with them: Daz.

It's that simple. 

I think it´s because the average quality is still pretty high at DAZ. You don´t have to tweak the figures a lot to make them look good, just load them an pose them and hit the render button in most cases the render will turn out somehow good.
Try this with the built in content, the G2 characters ( except for Kelvin) look somehow freakish especially Simon and Sydney they just suck , Judy needs a lot of morphing on her face alone to get a decent result, the P6 kids have a real bad rigging, just try to pose their fingers, I could go on for a long time.
DPHoadley did a great job with the picture he posted here, but he spent an awful lot of time to morph, remap and pose the figures. Most people just don´t want to spent that amount of time and DAZ offers them a lot of easy and ready to use content. If you join the Platinum Club you have more than 2000 products for less than 2$ sometimes even less than 1$ to chose from.
I personally don´t like every DAZ Figure and really hate V3 and M3 but they did a pretty good job with M4, I really love him. Not so sure about the new kids yet and not a big fan of V4 but she´s a great improvement over V3.

*"DPHoadley did a great job with the picture he posted here, but he spent an awful lot of time to morph, remap and pose the figures. Most people just don´t want to spent that amount of time and DAZ offers them a lot of easy and ready to use content."*

@Slochez: Art is not supposed to be easy.  The quality of art depends to a large extent to the time and effort that you put into it!  I myself am not an artist, and never will be, but as a semi-skilled craftsman, I like the end results of my craftsmanship, BECAUSE of all the effort that I put into it!
dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

1% inspiration 99% perperation

IMO the daz figures are better because that is what daz does, hence they get more sales.  The bundled figures are just what whoever shipped with poser so it had some functionality however it wasn't what they do; they make computer programs.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Let me underscore what a couple of people have already said:

DAZ makes it easy.

Never mind that the meshes are resource hogs, with twice the poly count of most CG characters created for Hollywood (Trivia for you: V3 has twice the poly count of Jar-Jar Blinks): you basically dont have to do anything, just point, pose, and click. Yes, there's more to it than that, but not a lot, guys. Most folks -- even vendors -- rarely move beyond the cookie-cutter head morphs for Vickie, in any of her iterations.

But to work with the bundled characters, you have to... well, work at it. SnowSultan made what I consider arguably the best Posette texture ever, and if you tinkered a bit with the mesh, you had a great looking result. I took the P4guy into places few ventured, and for my pains, I got characters that were on the level of M2/3. But none of this is easy. You have to treat the character mesh like a tabula rosa, not a fait accompli.

But we dont do that anymore. We wait for someone else to do it for us. We dont want to learn all the incredibly cool stuff built into the programs because that's hard.

Yeah, well, whatever.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

I agree with you Sean (although I may have worded it different, but then again, maybe not ;o)). I learned how to model so that I could make what was in my own head rather than what was in someone else's and the same goes for texturing. The only reason I did texturing long before modeling was because it was easier for me...I was a graphic artist and Photoshop was a good friend of mine...lol. I learned to use the morph brush and make something I liked, make props I like. I think that's where I get my satisfaction...in seeing something that I made myself. However, that's not the general rule (and in some cases just not practical) because of folks that use the program commercially or for people who are perfectly satisfied with having their art look, more or less, like a lot of other images in the gallery. I'm not saying that to be ignorant either - some people do this purely to unwind and if that's what it does for you, than I'm all for it. I'm just never satisfied with my own stuff to ever sit still and just use what I can buy ;o).

Laurie

After reading LaurieA's post, I just had an epiphany, and I don't know why it has taken me so long to see it. 

There are two groups in this discussion: The techies and the users. 

The techies are like techies in every other area of computerization. They ADORE pushing the limits and seeing what can be done. They are the people who over-clock their cpus and write code of ever-increasing convolutions.

The users just want the damn programs they buy to work so they can write their letters and play their games.

It's a good thing that both of us exist. Without the users the techies couldn't make a living, and without the techies the users would have nothing to use.

Perhaps a bit more respect in both camps is what is called for, rather than espousing that everyone needs to be able to do everything..

Part of the comparison to the Jar Jar Binks model fails to take into account the rendering engine and other things. Whatever renders the Star Wars movies has a lot of options that Poser doesn't. Also Jar Jar doesn't morph into Han Solo but the polys need to be there for that possibility with the DAZ figures. If you have no morphs you end up with James, and no support.

Quote -

There are two groups in this discussion: The techies and the users. 

The techies are like techies in every other area of computerization. They ADORE pushing the limits and seeing what can be done. They are the people who over-clock their cpus and write code of ever-increasing convolutions.

The users just want the damn programs they buy to work so they can write their letters and play their games.

It's a good thing that both of us exist. Without the users the techies couldn't make a living, and without the techies the users would have nothing to use.

Perhaps a bit more respect in both camps is what is called for, rather than espousing that everyone needs to be able to do everything..

Thank you
Excellent post!!!

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Since we are tossing polygon numbers around...

A generic character in shrek had 60k polys for head/body/clothing and 760k for hair/fur.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Quote - > Quote -  ok dave, when are you going to release your "how to" tutorial of your magic? :)

What magic?  It's all blood, sweat, toil, & tears!!!  1st I remapped them to take v3 & M3 textures, and THAT does a lot to make them look more like your latest & greatest from DAZ.  And, if you click on my Homepage and look at my Artist Input/Freestuff, you'll find all my Posette & Dork remaps there!  Plus a remap of the P4 Horse to take MilHorse textures, which goes a LONG way to improve him! (I learned in my 3ds Max class that TEXTURE was a LOT more important than Polygon count!).  Then, there's posing.  Again something I learned in 3ds Max class was the 1:2 ratio of bending joints.  An example of this is bending Posette & Dork's neck and head: for ever 10 degrees bend of neck, there should be 20 degrees bend of head, etc.  Raising the arm, 1st you raise the collar, then the shoulder, etc.  Everything should flow naturally.
dph

That's a good Mini Tutorial in 1 paragraph Dave! That 3DS Max class sounds like it helped you out a lot!

Quote - Since we are tossing polygon numbers around...

A generic character in shrek had 60k polys for head/body/clothing and 760k for hair/fur.

And that's the original film. I'm sure since then they've become even more complex. LOL

But that doesnt turn away from the fact that the DAZ characters really do go into polygon overload, especially now when it's one mesh fits all. No wonder Michael's "equipment" had to go separately!

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Sometimes, when posing I use a 1:2:3 ratio; for example, such as twisting the neck.  I might twist the chest by 5 degrees, the neck by 10 degrees, and the head by 15 degrees: everything thus graduated in a smooth fashion: -the torso moves a little, the head moves a lot.
And another thing!!!  NEVER move the Forearms and Shins 'Side-to-Side!  They can't DO it in real life, therefore they shouldn't DO it in Poser!  Rather twist the Shoulders and Thighs instead.  And remember, when twisting the hand, FIRST twist the forearm, and possibly even the shoulder (If the are is outstretched! -And again, in that case follow the ratio 1:2:3).

All this applies most certainly for posing the legs & feet TOO!
dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

but ease in creating quality artwork isn't the only issue.  there are figures out there with as great or greater number of features like morphs as the latest DAZ figure.  and since morphs take time to dial, and most "users" don't take that time (or the time to fit those body morphs), lots of those features don't have any effect beyond making people feel good about a purchase.

every time i load V4 or have an image of her on my screen and my boyfriend looks across the office, he can't refrain from commenting on how ridiculously long her arms are.  i mean, seriously can't keep from exclaiming each  time. 

DAZ figures are the norm now largely because they became the norm years ago.   V4's high cut shoulders make her look way worse in most positions than V2 in that area.  but how quickly did people get used to seeing that and not even mention the problem in comments?  how quickly did people boast about not correcting it in postwork?  how many people said of Antonia, "wow, her arms look really short," when they were actually the right size based on photo references?  

it's not nearly as simple as techies vs. users.

even staying within the DAZ stable, it's not technically harder to user V3 than V4.  there's actually more high-end freebies for V3, like morphs and textures rather than just dial-spins.  M2 and Capsces' Boris are now free. i collected gigs and gigs of free content for the version 2 and version 3  figures.  you could just use freestuff from DAZ and elsewhere and make artwork of the exact same quality and with as much ease as the average V4 user.  not the "techies" that get great performance out of her, but the more common "users."

it's not technically easier for average load and render users to use the latest DAZ figures.   i see literally no difference in the average quality of renders in the galleries from V3 to V4, and in a lot of cases i've seen a decrease due to V4's less realistic default head.  it's easier logistically and impulse-wise.  you can follow the latest trends and not spend as much time thinking about your content.  you don't have to think about if you really need the latest thing, or what's really appropriate to use for that image you have planned.  you don't have to wonder whether people will view you work for its quality rather than a glimpse of the hottest new content.   you don't have to worry about missing out on new stuff you do want that comes out for the latest figure.  you can just buy based on seeing and wanting, and keep thinking about each incremental buy instead of that total spending you're doing.

people like collecting Poser content like comics or action figures.  most of us customers use so little of what we buy, we need a system to tell us that we've already bought something to keep from buying it again.  tons of people bought the morphs and add-ons for the version 3 kids who never used them, just as tons of people bought the present Kids bundles who will never use them.  but now, they don't have to worry about something cool coming out for the Kids and their morphs that they could only get if they justified the cost of both the bundle (at full price) and the product.

much of the ease is in the mindspace. you can buy without guilt, and keep acquiring content with the latest advances without worrying about compatibility. what's technically more difficult is working with lots of different figures.  DPH does a lot with Posette, but most Posette users wouldn't have to do that anymore than every V3 user had to make TextureConverter themselves. if you just choose Posette, technically, life is about as easy if you just choose V4.  but if you choose one of the less popular figures, you won't get to be a part of the latest content trend.  most people choose to just keep up with the most popular figure.  the problem is that this keeps you from even finding out what you could do on your own and for free.  and from seeing what you'd actually do if you weren't following everyone else. once you start the practice of looking to merchants first and your own work second, it's hard to stop.

if people who've been around long enough to remember a time when you only paid for Poser advise against rushing into buying things, it's because it's a bad practice for your wallet.   most of us only use a small percentage of what we buy, and even more only gets used once, deliberately, in a render of the latest purchase.  it's amazing how much you can spend when you only think about that single purchase.  people don't advise being creative first and spending second because "techies" think people should be able to "do everything."  it's because first seeing what you can do and giving your own artistic vision top priority and marketing and peer pressure lowest priority is just a more economic thing to do.  and those of us with runtimes full of content we can barely organize and didn't even have time to use before the newest, must-have figure came out sometimes like to pass along what we've learned through our own mistakes.

Quote - Trivia for you: V3 has twice the poly count of Jar-Jar Blinks...

True, but at least V3 didn't make Palpatine Emperor... :lol:

Speaking of Work v. Easy , I wish there were a standard for hair morphs-every time I use a hair I need to spend ten minutes fooling with it to remember which dial moves what, where.  Often fun, but non-productive...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Quote - but ease in creating quality artwork isn't the only issue.  there are figures out there with as great or greater number of features like morphs as the latest DAZ figure.  and since morphs take time to dial, and most "users" don't take that time (or the time to fit those body morphs), lots of those features don't have any effect beyond making people feel good about a purchase.

every time i load V4 or have an image of her on my screen and my boyfriend looks across the office, he can't refrain from commenting on how ridiculously long her arms are.  i mean, seriously can't keep from exclaiming each  time. 

DAZ figures are the norm now largely because they became the norm years ago.   V4's high cut shoulders make her look way worse in most positions than V2 in that area.  but how quickly did people get used to seeing that and not even mention the problem in comments?  how quickly did people boast about not correcting it in postwork?  how many people said of Antonia, "wow, her arms look really short," when they were actually the right size based on photo references?  

it's not nearly as simple as techies vs. users.

even staying within the DAZ stable, it's not technically harder to user V3 than V4.  there's actually more high-end freebies for V3, like morphs and textures rather than just dial-spins.  M2 and Capsces' Boris are now free. i collected gigs and gigs of free content for the version 2 and version 3  figures.  you could just use freestuff from DAZ and elsewhere and make artwork of the exact same quality and with as much ease as the average V4 user.  not the "techies" that get great performance out of her, but the more common "users."

it's not technically easier for average load and render users to use the latest DAZ figures.   i see literally no difference in the average quality of renders in the galleries from V3 to V4, and in a lot of cases i've seen a decrease due to V4's less realistic default head.  it's easier logistically and impulse-wise.  you can follow the latest trends and not spend as much time thinking about your content.  you don't have to think about if you really need the latest thing, or what's really appropriate to use for that image you have planned.  you don't have to wonder whether people will view you work for its quality rather than a glimpse of the hottest new content.   you don't have to worry about missing out on new stuff you do want that comes out for the latest figure.  you can just buy based on seeing and wanting, and keep thinking about each incremental buy instead of that total spending you're doing.

people like collecting Poser content like comics or action figures.  most of us customers use so little of what we buy, we need a system to tell us that we've already bought something to keep from buying it again.  tons of people bought the morphs and add-ons for the version 3 kids who never used them, just as tons of people bought the present Kids bundles who will never use them.  but now, they don't have to worry about something cool coming out for the Kids and their morphs that they could only get if they justified the cost of both the bundle (at full price) and the product.

much of the ease is in the mindspace. you can buy without guilt, and keep acquiring content with the latest advances without worrying about compatibility. what's technically more difficult is working with lots of different figures.  DPH does a lot with Posette, but most Posette users wouldn't have to do that anymore than every V3 user had to make TextureConverter themselves. if you just choose Posette, technically, life is about as easy if you just choose V4.  but if you choose one of the less popular figures, you won't get to be a part of the latest content trend.  most people choose to just keep up with the most popular figure.  the problem is that this keeps you from even finding out what you could do on your own and for free.  and from seeing what you'd actually do if you weren't following everyone else. once you start the practice of looking to merchants first and your own work second, it's hard to stop.

if people who've been around long enough to remember a time when you only paid for Poser advise against rushing into buying things, it's because it's a bad practice for your wallet.   most of us only use a small percentage of what we buy, and even more only gets used once, deliberately, in a render of the latest purchase.  it's amazing how much you can spend when you only think about that single purchase.  people don't advise being creative first and spending second because "techies" think people should be able to "do everything."  it's because first seeing what you can do and giving your own artistic vision top priority and marketing and peer pressure lowest priority is just a more economic thing to do.  and those of us with runtimes full of content we can barely organize and didn't even have time to use before the newest, must-have figure came out sometimes like to pass along what we've learned through our own mistakes.

Another very excellent post!!

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I guess it is as simple as what you want to do with Poser - or maybe, what you want Poser to do for you ;o). If it's just a creative outlet and more or less adult "play-time" than that's what it is. No wrong or right in that. Me? I don't even download freebies anymore that I can make myself. Why? I've just said it...lolol. It serves me in a different way than most I guess. For instance, I make chainmaille jewelry. But I don't wear it...lmao. Just like I use Poser and almost never render a scene. I just make stuff for it ;o). That's where it gives me the most of whatever it is that it does for me....lol. For what the Daz figures do for it's users (and I'm only a user once in a great...) is different for every person. But since Daz is sort of the only main thing going, their figures will continue to be on top until someone or a group of someones with some talent and drive does their best to change it. So far hasn't happened. Don't know if it will, unless Daz stops selling Poser content all-together. That's not impossible, but not very likely ;o).

Laurie

I think it comes down to several important things concerning V4 (and her kin) versus the Poser core figures.

V4 has large support via the DAZ PAs, Platinum Club team and often its a unified front.

The Victoria line has a reputation of quality and features - I'm not necessarily talking about V4, but going back to the beginning of the line.

The Poser core figures haven't fared as well.  They tend to require a lot of work to get the same feature set as the DAZ lines.  Small details are constantly missed - picky details that DAZ tries to fix in their figures.  If SM really wanted the community to be more prone to adopt their own flagship figures, I would highly recommend that they run a survey and see what users really want.

I'm not trying to side with anyone regarding this, nor hurt any feelings.

I agree with Sean and others that feel that the V4 mesh is too poly heavy.  I also personally don't like the embedded deformers in any of the figures.  It feels kludgy to me.  M4 proved that you really don't need it.

I don't really care for the empty channel injection system either.  Rather see PMD adopted for figures in Poser and let DS have it's own binary system.

So, I have gripes on both sides.  I have adjusted to the things I really don't care for and when I can, I create my own solutions - pre-inject my figures and save out PMDs, for example.

.

several things actually

1. The origional Poser figures had flaws. The origional DAZ figures had less flaws.

2. Poser figures are free. Dazz figures cost dollars.

3. What one gets for free is often neglected. What one pays for is taken more care of..(or one regrest the buy) One seeks justification for the dollars spend.

Then the show OFF.

Others want to be able to do the same. Too lazy, or do not want to invest the time it takes,  to morph the origional Poser figures, So only the BUY option gets it.

10 dollar, 100 dollar, oeps this is getting out of hand?  The justification?

Better make something, but I need???

But, you need the hair too, the clothes too, and a marked gets created.>

Others see the profit, and jump in on the dollarmaking-game.

Once the ball is loose, there is no stopping it.

Me? I never, or very rarely BUY something. (Ibought 3 LO Res figures, and regret it.)

No V's in this house. None, never-ever.

Then the hypes? The sale arguments?

The ridiculous poly count.

Untill some of us discover that polycount is just that ; a hype. A sales argument. Nothing, and absolutely nothing more.

But, most have already way too many $$$ invested to drop out.
So, the hype goes on.

idealy, a figure has 20 to 25K polys, the rest is pollution.

Posette, Judy, Alyson Lo Res, fit the bill very  fine, thanks.

I"ll morph them and build my own Victory's.
Also, the CPu likes them, the render engine likes them, the memory likes them.

it is like megapixel camera's.

Not noticed yet that some market leaders are coming back down??? to 10 - 15 megapixels...

With a good lens, it is all one needs.

just my 2 cents.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Why? What are the alternatives? Poser 8 figures? They look like they've escaped from some freak show. With every new Poser version released, the figures get worst. That counts for DAZ also, but they're not as bad as the Poser figures are.

It's simply a case of supply and demand..... as long as Smith Micro or others fail to supply figures that are way better then DAZ then the still flawed DAZ figures, we all buy at DAZ. I guess it will never change, unless DAZ finally decided to drop Poser support.

Whenever I'm buying a new Poser version, I'm not even bothered to download the new content, it's a waste of time and a waste of drive space. It's 1.5Gb of stuff I will never use.

Just go to content paradise for fun and check out what items are in the top selling list.... the majority is for DAZ figures and a few items for the G2 figures. Even they themselves fail to market items for their own figures and make a lot more more money from the DAZ figures then their own.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Quote - Why? What are the alternatives? Poser 8 figures? They look like they've escaped from some freak show. With every new Poser version released, the figures get worst. That counts for DAZ also, but they're not as bad as the Poser figures are.

Actually, I don't think the Poser 8 stuff is really that bad...  Sure, Alyson needs some morphs to look presentable, and really, someone should have fixed that before she got in the box, but with some help, she can look pretty good.   3Dream and Deecey both have some free morphs out there that make Alyson pretty.  

Dial her legs & arms longer, and you've got a fairly decent character to work with.   (Of course, there isn't a lot of content for her out there, but that's what the wardrobe wizard is for.)  In the very least, she's good as an alternative to using V4 in every scene.

Quote - Quote - "Why? What are the alternatives? Poser 8 figures? They look like they've escaped from some freak show. With every new Poser version released, the figures get worst. That counts for DAZ also, but they're not as bad as the Poser figures are."

Actually, I don't think the Poser 8 stuff is really that bad...  Sure, Alyson needs some morphs to look presentable, and really, someone should have fixed that before she got in the box, but with some help, she can look pretty good.   3Dream and Deecey both have some free morphs out there that make Alyson pretty. 

Dial her legs & arms longer, and you've got a fairly decent character to work with.   (Of course, there isn't a lot of content for her out there, but that's what the wardrobe wizard is for.)  In the very least, she's good as an alternative to using V4 in every scene.

And then, there is my remapped Posette & Dork.  PosetteV3 comes with something like 200-300 face morphs alone (never counted them, but there's an awful lot), for shaping her face alone. Same with remapped Dork, albeit for his extra face and body morphs you'd need to get Momodot's Morphman.  Again, the range of possibilities with these figures is quite extensive!  And they're light-weight and easy to maneuver in the Poseroom.  With V4 I feel like I'm dragging a semi-trailer truck around, actually struggling with my mouse to get things to move.
dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

Often the texture maps are large which eats your memory for breakfast.  Since I'm not zooming into skin pores for most of my renders, I tend to batch resize them.  Half or Third Size of a 4000x4000 set of textures does wonders.

Good free tool for that here: http://www.rw-designer.com/picture-resize

Allows a lot of extra command line parameters if you are extemely picky, like me.

.

 I forgot that IDIOT Jar Jar made Palpatine Emperor!

  . I like the "realistic" look and I don't know of any hiRes photorealistic textures for Alyson-or any of the Poser People.
I just went to Content Paradise for the first time- I saw numerous character morph/textures for V4.2!
 
  I did not find a section with Judy, Jessi, or Alyson related products- from Smith Micro!!  There are of course the Manga-esque characters which are probably Daz,

 As far as being resource hungry- I feel that computers are evolving to catch up.

  And there is a whole genre of renders simply called "NVIAT"! For the few who don't know-that is a humorous reference to the ever present Nekkid Vicky in A Temple" renders. :-)

DPH has remapped several figures to take V3 textures, many of which surpass most V4 textures.  taking an example from my own runtime, Camielle V3 is a must have, while Camielle V4 is only OK at best.

just look in the galleries for images of Olivia G2, Miki 1, Miki 2, Koji 1, Koji 2, and others sporting quite beautiful textures.  my favorite artists that have used some of those figures are fabriced and carodan.

carodan also has some equally quality work of Apollo.

there at least used to be some pretty quality textures out there for Posette.  if you don't use her V2 or V3 mapping.

some of the most beautiful textures i've seen were StefyZZ's for V2 and V3.

Antonia already has some killer textures, and people are doing some equally killer renders with her.

that new figure by Mankahoo (i forget her name just now) comes with pretty good textures, just judging by people's results.

Maya Doll's default textures always worked well for me.  my one gallery image using her was pretty popular.

i don't know Alyson and Sydney well, because they weren't my thing, but looking there are some nice Rebelmommy textures for them and Terai Yuki  over at RDNA.

there's lots and lots of quality content out there.  and so much of realistic skin is realistic materials, not texture.

Quote - Since we are tossing polygon numbers around...

A generic character in shrek had 60k polys for head/body/clothing and 760k for hair/fur.

Wonder about the values for Avatar :)

 

For me it’s simple, loads of free content for Vicky 3 and 4 add morph package and some all round store clothing, bodysuit and MFD and you have most of that you need.

Add that you get lots of free textures to much of the popular clothes.

Yes you continue to shop because it always nice to have more.

 

It’s not a question about that is best; the question is that is best supported.

Quote - It’s not a question about that is best; the question is that is best supported.

Sad, but true. At least here in the States, VHS won out over BetaMax - definitely NOT the better of the two. VHS ruled for no other reason than it was cheaper. Didn't mean it was better ;o).

Laurie

Some would say VHS won because that is the one the porn industry used... Sony forbade porn makers from using betamax.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Quote - Some would say VHS won because that is the one the porn industry used... Sony forbade porn makers from using betamax.

Actually That is the real reason
Just as Time Warner's Choice of Blueray
Killed HDDVD.

My website

YouTube Channel

Sounds like Apple is the new Sony then...lololol! "I'm gonna make you pay AND tell you what you can't do with it too!"

Sorry, couldn't resist ;o)

Laurie

Quote - Sounds like Apple is the new Sony then...lololol! "I'm gonna make you pay AND tell you what you can't do with it too!"

Sorry, couldn't resist ;o)

Laurie

Hi if you are referring to the"No flash on the IPad" Controversy
here is a Dose of $$Reality$$
I Found on another site:

Quote:
***Since the dawn of the Web we've been told that this brave new world came with brave new rules, one being that everything must be free and open. Force people to pay a subscription fee to read your news? You'll be doomed, the pundits tell us. You'll be left behind, eclipsed by all the smarty-pants companies that know enough to give their work away.

So everyone played along, and with a few exceptions, nobody is making any money. Funny, that.

Now along comes Apple with a walled garden. Not only does it produce the iPad's processor, its operating system, and the device itself, but Apple sells its content, via iTunes, and keeps 30 percent of the money. It also operates the App Store, the only place selling applications to run on the iPad, and it keeps a 30 percent slice there, too. This summer it will start selling ads that run inside the apps and will keep a 40 percent slice of that revenue.
**
Apple does not explain its strategy. But my interpretation of what it's thinking goes as follows:

The first two decades of the World Wide Web have been a huge mistake.
The Internet is not a philosophy. It's a distribution mechanism. The laws of physics did not change when the airplane was invented, nor have the laws of economics changed because the Internet exists. You make money on the Internet the same way you do everywhere else—by having something that people want and forcing them to pay for it. There is a reason a circus takes place inside a tent, and it's not to keep you dry when it rains. They want to charge you to watch the big show."*

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

Ok, I wasn't really referring to having to pay for the item (I get that), I was referring to having to pay for the item then still having the manufacturer that sold it to me to tell me what I can and can't have on it or what I can do with it. Simple as that. Sorry if you don't like that I don't like being told I can't do something with an item I've payed for, but I myself have a huge problem with it. And no, I don't give a rat's behind about porn, flash or whatever someone else is doing or not doing. And just so you know, I don't really need a dissertation about why my opinion is wrong, in your opinion.

Laurie

Wait, if I get an iPad I'm going to have to see ads on it?

Stupid Apple.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Quote - Wait, if I get an iPad I'm going to have to see ads on it?

Stupid Apple.

I'm not quite sure that's what they have in mind, I don't know, but anyway...I got off topic... Sorry bout that.

/thread repair

Laurie

Quote - Wait, if I get an iPad I'm going to have to see ads on it?

Stupid Apple.

yup. and iTouch and iPhone.
built into the OS.

how it's going to be used shrug but ...

Quote - Sorry if you don't like that I don't like being told I can't do something with an item I've payed for,

Laurie

It  is not about what I like
it  is about The apparent reality of Apples strategy.

I personally Dont see the appeal of the Ipad
it is just an oversized Ipod touch..not even a real Laptop.

I am just amazed that people would complain about
the closed system of a $500 urban status symbol
poo-toy.
but happily purchase a $40,000+ Vehicle
from manufacturers that forces them to use their
$$vendors$$ for spare parts under threat warranty
violation .
But back to the subject.

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

... which is precisely why I'm not bothering with the MaxiPad. It has no real function. It's a big toy. It's a precursor, I'm sure, for something else Mac has in mind.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Stay on topic guys

Quote - Stay on topic guys

I'm sure Vicky looks stunning on an iPad, but that's still not enough to buy one.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

I dont render any of the Daz Figures except in animation demos.
I have Enough poser content to last the rest of my life.
the last "figure" I bought was THIS BIG GUY.
Ive not much use for human characters these days
certiainly not V-chick,

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

Quote - Since we are tossing polygon numbers around...
A generic character in shrek had 60k polys for head/body/clothing and 760k for hair/fur.

Keep in mind that it's a generic character in a full-body image. The same article does not state the poly count for Shrek, but does say that Shrek had:

180 animation controls in Shrek's face
836 underlying "shapers" in Shrek's deformation system
585 body animation controls
90 muscles

Shrek wasn't a lightweight model. I haven't been able to find an article on the web that verifies that Jar Jar Binks had less polys than V4. The search results I got mixed in personal models of the character with game models and Clone Wars models.

One of the problems facing Poser figures is that the models are designed for all uses, whether it be a full body image that wouldn't need a large number of polygons or large textures.

I fall into the camp that mostly uses DAZ human figures because they have a greater level of support. When it comes to nonhuman figures, I'm more likely to use a Sixus1 figure or a nonDAZ figure because there are more choices outside of DAZ. I don't have a store bias. I'll use what fits into my vision rather than force myself to a specific usage.

There is definately a downside to having access to so much 3D content. Older Poser users are more likely to have learned modeling and texturing because they had no other choices. In some ways, that's bad because the average Poser user today is overall less technically proficient than a Poser users nearly a decade ago. Today's Poser/DS user can concentrate more on artistic creations than creating content. There's a bit of a balance there.

It's no sin not to master modeling and texturing. Look at the credits on any film with a lot of CGI and all the jobs are broken up into different specialties. The person animating a model isn't the same person that made the model or the same person that textured the model or the same person that rendered the model or the same person that created the backgrounds. There is more satisfaction in creating everything used in an image. There is still a lot of satisfaction in creating a good image even if all the parts of the image weren't made by the artist. A cook doesn't have to be a farmer to make a good meal (though the cook would be absolutely sure what's in the food if the cook grew it).

DAZ models are more popular simply because they developed a momentum early on when the native P4 models were comparatively primitive to Millennium characters that they developed a little later. That eventually created a market for those figures that nobody has broken yet. It doesn't mean it won't happen someday.

My visual indexes of Poser content are at http://www.sharecg.com/pf/rgagnon

Quote - You basically gave three answers to your own question.  Poser is tied to Shade which is tied to anime which equates to non-sexy which results in old fogees still using Poser.

Just a quick note - Poser is not tied to Shade.  We have been owned by different companies for over 2 years now...

Are you a Poser fan?  Show us on Facebook!

Quote - > Quote - You basically gave three answers to your own question.  Poser is tied to Shade which is tied to anime which equates to non-sexy which results in old fogees still using Poser.

Just a quick note - Poser is not tied to Shade.  We have been owned by different companies for over 2 years now...

Quote - > Quote - You basically gave three answers to your own question.  Poser is tied to Shade which is tied to anime which equates to non-sexy which results in old fogees still using Poser.

Just a quick note - Poser is not tied to Shade.  We have been owned by different companies for over 2 years now...

OT...... it's a huge sidetrack but I do have to make this remark. A while back we had a rather big topic where better communication was asked from the people of SM and a number of issues in the way that staff from SM/CP communicates with us.... or rather lacks communication. One of the issues was that the only time SM/CP people turn up is to set some record straight. Since that thread none of the staff has been around here much (or at all) and that has been quite a while now, over 6 weeks ago.

Now someone comes in again.... only to set the record straight..... there have been a lot of things that SM could have answered and threads that you could have participated in. After the usual silence, we all know who does help out as much as possible, when SM fails as usual. I do find this a bit disturbing, seems like all SM/CP staff is able to do these day, set the record straight and or make an announcement and then disappear again for 6 weeks or so.

Sorry to be so off topic, but I do find it kind of annoying, so I had to get it off my chest.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Quote - ... I was referring to having to pay for the item then still having the manufacturer that sold it to me to tell me what I can and can't have on it or what I can do with it. Simple as that. Sorry if you don't like that I don't like being told I can't do something with an item I've paid for, but I myself have a huge problem with it...

Laurie

Actually, so do I (have a huge problem with a company telling me what I can and can't do with something after I bought it). In the case of an OS, the makers of Windows get around that by telling me that I didn't actually buy a copy of Windows, I bought a licence and the licence has conditions that I agreed to on purchase (or actually have to agree on after purchase or I can't even use my purchase).
I guess what gets me is that we consider so normal and acceptable for software makers and content makers (who are protecting their intellectual property) to mete out severe conditions of use that a toaster maker or knitting needle manufacturer wouldn't dream of imposing. And it all boils down to money-making.

That is one reason I have gone with Linux for all non-Poser stuff... easy to use, and no one tells me what I can and can't do with it. In fact, they even give you the source code so if you're clued-up enough to improve the OS, have at it, go for your life. If you break it, you get to keep both pieces.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

LOL Robyn. I wish I were that tech savvy, but I'm not...lol. I'd end up with the two pieces that I couldn't do anything with ;o).

Laurie

If you break it

don't you mean When?? I spent more time fixing ubuntu than actually using it... I gave up and reclaimed the space....

I've been using Ubuntu for the past 5 years... never had a lick of trouble with it. No, it's not Windows, any more than Blender is 3DSMax. Just what you get used to, I guess.

I guess your mileage may vary.

This thread has decided me though to finally have a look at other figures than V4. She's a known entity - not unlike Windoze - so people stick with what they know. Breaking out of the mould is always a challenge.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

Good plan. There are a few to chose from ;o). Hope you don't mind minimal clothing tho, as that's the downside of not using Vicky...lol.

Laurie

Quote - Good plan. There are a few to chose from ;o). Hope you don't mind minimal clothing tho, as that's the downside of not using Vicky...lol.

Laurie

As you already know, I'm weird, so I always do things very differently. To convert clothing from V4 to, say, Terai Yuki 2 or Angela I'll probably import the clothing obj into Blender and tweak it there, then use Obj2Cr2 to make it conforming again, then use Morphing clothes for those final touches. So, I have tons of clothing for them... and the textures (Gc-ed and CoE-ed and stuff) are already saved as mt5s so it's all good.

Poser is a very involved (but highly stimulating) process for me... I make it so. Sometimes this view on life gets me in trouble: when people ask me what time it is, I tend to tell them how to build a clock. :biggrin:

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

just a quick note to say i see SM people here in the forums all the time.  iirc, just yesterday or so i saw efstarlet tell someone how to contact a staff member directly for help with technical problem. and most threads about Poser in general i've seen that haven't been simple kvetch fests (like this one- to be clearer, this one is an example of a thread that isn't just a kvetching thread) have had an SM employee in them.  Stefan pops into a threads on render optimization and materials every now and then (which i've seen as a bagginsbill follower), and i've seen Teyon ask about what people want in terms of figures quite frequently. 

otoh, i only see DAZ people here if they want to do damage control, but that's kind of to be expected.  it would be kind of discourteous for them to have a strong presence at a competitor's site.

" I spent more time fixing ubuntu than actually using it." 

But, but...on all the Linux sites I read how somebody's grandma installed Red Hat Enterprise in two hours and then hacked the kernel to control her walker.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

my life with Ubuntu - well if the graphics card didnt' work (everything scrunched up into an interference pattern at the top of the screen), the soundcard wasn't working. I'd fix the soundcard, there'd be a kernel update and the soundcard would break. then I'd spend hours trying to get the machine to talk to the windows machines via samba... doing the same(!) things over and over again according to the instructions and it not working ...then suddenly it would. then the soundcard would break again. then the graphics did the top of the screen dance..

I gave up at that point.

Windows. it really just does Work.

I use openSUSE 11.2 myself-most everything Just Works.

I did have to get the driver from my scanner form the Epson website now, as they suddenly don't like including proprietary drivers in the distribution.  I'm just about to install 11.3 beta into a spare partition...

I just installed XP Pro on a laptop for a friend-almost 9 hours to install XP and all of the drivers and updates.  I can set up openSUSE in a bit more than an hour, and that's on my desktop where I need to do a bunch of symlinking as part of the setup (I should write a script to do it)...

I haven't tried Ubuntu in years because there is no root account.  There are some things you just can't do with sudo, like move your home directory, which I do as part of every install I do...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Pretty much why I went with Ubuntu - not only does Everything Just Work, but it Keeps On Working. I'm not a patient person, and get frustrated easily with Boring Things To Do. I think that is why Ubuntu appeals to me: when 45 minutes have gone by and your OS is installed, not only does the Internet work, but your camera works, your network printer has been found and installed and best of all all core apps you need like office and GIMP and even Blender are all in there ready to go.

LaurieA, thanks for the push to try something else - had a look at my downloads folder, and started to blush... Angela, Miki2, MayaDoll, Terai Yuki2 ... sheesh. And I haven't even tried Alyson!

This is embarassing.

We should do a support the non-Vs thread or something... lol

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

LOL...I'm guilty too ;o)

I've been meaning to do something with Maya Doll again. I haven't had her out for a very, very long time...hehe.

Laurie

There are some very good textures for the G2 figures.Not much good free stuff though. I have several textures by Cyllan, she does some of the best texture work in Poserdom.  I also have some very nice characters for the G2 ladies by APDI. There is good material for them, but you have to search for it, and pay for it.

Poser 11 Pro, Windows 10

Auxiliary Apps: Blender 2.79, Vue Complete 2016, Genetica 4 Pro, Gliftex 11 Pro, CorelDraw Suite X6, Comic Life 2, Project Dogwaffle Howler 8, Stitch Witch

I've remapped a couple of the G2 figures, so that they can use V3 textures.
dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

 I use the DAZ figures over the default Poser figures for several reasons:

1. The DAZ figures are more realistic-looking than the Poser figures
2. The DAZ figures have more built-in morphs/morph add-ons than the Poser figures
3. There is more development that goes into the DAZ figures which makes them more versatile than the Poser figures
4. There is a better track history of improvements from generation to generation of the DAZ figures than the Poser figures (Brand recognition: Michael & Victoria have some standard of quality associated with them)
5. The DAZ figures have more content available for them than the Poser figures
6. The DAZ figures bend and pose better than the Poser figures
7. With the exception of a few figures like Apollo Maximus and Antonia, the DAZ figures have very little competition in terms of realism, especially not from the Poser figures
8. The Poser figures have been tied to additional capabilities such as Face Room which can give decent results, but only with a lot of effort.  Very few people want to go through the effort when the default figure is so ugly (unhuman looking) to start with.

Personally, I think that if it's desired for the Poser figures to be more aesthetic and user friendly, perhaps SM should consider contracting out to Zygote as the source for their human models.  Which would be ironic considering that DAZ originated from Zygote.

None of the figures available is truly fantastic, and all of them have problems. 3rd Generation Daz have macaroni shoulders that look disastrous, even morphed, without clothing. But their faces are lovely. Poser 6+ figures have better upper bodies, but the legs are weird and the faces are OOOGLY as sin itself. M4 still has problem shoulders but they're improved vastly, particularly with a few well placed morphs. But rendering several of him in a scene kills my machine. V4 has better shoulders, but they are narrow and even with tiny breasts she looks too well endowed to relax her arms at her sides because her chest is too wide for her narrow little shrugged shoulders. None of them has good legs, particularly in the hip joint, except Antonia, whose legs are the best I've seen. Apollo has a very natural but stocky looking body, but there's something weird about the eyes I can't get rid of no matter how hard I try.

So they all have pros and cons. In the end, then it's which works best for which scene. IE: I'd never use a 3rd generation Daz creation for a nude scene. Never. Urgh. But for a close up portrait. Yes!

The availability of supporting products is also a key factor.

In the end, though, I'm not sure, when it comes to midrange, multiple figures in a scene, that anyone has done better than M2 and V2. But the attempt to make figures that do everything for everyone looks like it's backfired. And It's kinda been downhill from there.

Edited to answer the OP's original question. It's a good one.

Poser figures are ugly out of the box. I hate to say it, but the market agrees. They're ugly. They just are. You have to fiddle for a long time before you get something that looks nice. And who wants to fiddle for a long time with something that starts off ugly unless you want it to end up ugly too?

Okay, a lot of people. But probably not most people. Particularly not impatient people. And poser users are going to include a lot of impatient people. I'm one of them. If I weren't impatient, I'd just draw the figures myself, after all.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

good posts guys

When I first got Poser I complained that the G2 figures were too pretty. I spent a lot of time uglifying them in the face room with asymmetrical morphs to make them look more like real people and not fashion models.

I do find face room support extremely useful for quickly giving a figure a different look, and I wish all figures had it.  Hundreds of head morphs are all well and good, but it takes time to learn every morph set well enough to get the effect I want without spending a lot of time. I use the face room as a short cut.

I am slowly getting a feeling for which characters work best for a particular type of scene.  To get rid of that inbred look where they all seem to share the same gene pool, it helps a lot to use characters from different sources, with different base meshes. Diversity is what I need, and I am prepared to spend money to get it, but I quite enjoy fiddling. I really appreciate the low-res figures, and I wish that Alyson and Ryan's low-res versions were truly low-res. At around 40000 polygons, they are still a lot heavier than needed. V4 and M4 also don't have low-res versions and in spite of the many polygons, there is a sameness about characters made using them, which is very hard to get rid of.

Poser 11 Pro, Windows 10

Auxiliary Apps: Blender 2.79, Vue Complete 2016, Genetica 4 Pro, Gliftex 11 Pro, CorelDraw Suite X6, Comic Life 2, Project Dogwaffle Howler 8, Stitch Witch

I just wanted to pop in and say that my recent experience developing a "realistic" Poser figure has shed some light on do's and do not's of modeling for Poser. I've been modeling for a long time but only recently have I been in a position to see any of that stuff put in motion. Many of my techniques and choices in topology are great for still shots but I have discovered are not so great for a figure in motion. Perhaps the modelers who came before me had to deal with a similar situation and didn't have the opportunity to delve into how to fix it? I can only guess. That's why I'm always popping in to find out what the user wants - because when the gloves finally come off and I'm allowed to use what I've learned, I expect my next model is going to be a step towards a better looking while moving figure, as that is something we always strive for.

I personally find threads like this one very interesting. While it doesn't really tackle the core of the solution, it does bring to light general opinion on the problem. This is stuff I pay attention to and in turn, relay back to my superiors who may not be able to visit. So for anyone who thinks the people behind Poser don't hop in here, you're wrong. We may not always join in the conversations but we are always viewing, reading and digesting what's being said. Sometimes changes are made based on it and sometimes not but there's almost always some dialog about what we've come across in the forums. 

Anyway, continue on. Sorry to derail things. Bad ex-mod! Bad! BAD! NO FOOD FOR YOU TEYON! :)

 The reason I don't use V4 as much is because of realism. Sure V4 may be realistic in an olympian sort of way or like a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model, but the reality is that very few people in the world look like that. In trying to make down to earth real people, the Poser figures, especially those of Poser 8 really shine.

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The Real Teruchan

I really don't understand that comment. The generation four figures have a lot of body morphs to allow you to do almost anything with the figure. The poser people have three unless that changed with the more recent ones. To be honest, I haven't used them past an initial look but G2 definitely had three morphs only and that isn't really enough to do much of anything. Especially when they bend as poorly as they do, breaking any realism that they might have had.

 The Poser 8 figures come with almost as many morphs as the Paid morph packages for other characters. And while it is true, the Daz figures have more morphs, and you can do almost anything with them, you can't get around some things that are built into the model. V4's legs are too long, her hips to tall and her torso is too short. There are some morphs that can change a few of these aspects, but then no costumes support them, so that means you are limited to nudes.

The Poser 8 figures have more realistic body proportions from the start. They look like average everyday people, as opposed to Greek gods. On the other side, the Poser 8 characters are not as easy to fit into the Nordic super model body type that V4 excels at, but that is, in my view, the biggest limitation to V4 as well.

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The Real Teruchan

It looks like they finally added some morphing ability, that is good.

I would disagree that the Poser 8 figures are an improvement over the G2 line.  There may be more morphs, but the basic shape of the figure, especially the face, is unrealistic.  Hopefully the  upcoming Miki 3 will be better - the Miki line has always been a little more realistic than their other figures.

ok define realistic in a face?

seriously.

right off all poser faces are unrealistic. ever the one you have as an avatar there Papabluemartin.

why? simple. it's symmetrical. all the models suffer from this, yes even the daz figures.

so. fix that then we can move on to point 2: not everyone has the same face. which if you look at the sheer amount of Daz figures used, you'd think so. not realistic at all. we don't all have the same base structure to our faces.

leading into point 3 : so the G2 figures don't look 'realistic' in your eyes. what about my eyes? or fred over there's eyes? etc?

it gets a little old everyone when you constantly bash a figure line because you personally don't like it.

Bashing is a very strong word here.  It just reflects how much these forums have changed over the past years.  Everyone is entitled to their preferences whether you agree or not.  Negative feedback is certainly used by developers to improve the poser figures from one generation to the other.

To clarify, my main point was about the Poser 8 figures, not the G2 figures.  I think that the G2 figures that nice faces, but awkward, and somewhat overly perfected, bodies.  It is true that human beings do not all have the same face structure.  My point was that I do not think the Poser 8 figures have sufficient "realism" in their faces.

I was going to post an answer.

I wrote it out. a long one.

then I realised. there's no point. no one will listen. things will carry on exactly as they are.

in six months there will be another thread like this. the same arguements just different words.

it's all pointless and I have better things to do that retread this path.

like model and render stuff.

end of my participation in this thread.

  Several years ago I recall someone creating left/right asymmetry morphs for Vicky's face in an attempt to create a more realistic face. I do not remember if it was V1, 2, or 3 though

Quote -
  Several years ago I recall someone creating left/right asymmetry morphs for Vicky's face in an attempt to create a more realistic face. I do not remember if it was V1, 2, or 3 though

Actually you can do that by splitting the morph and giving slightly different values to each side. Most people don't use that feature though.

Laurie

And there, folks, is the issue. We dont delve into the inherent possibilities attendant to these characters. We want a finished piece right out of the box. Dork doesnt look real enough? Hey, never mind that the mesh has the capability of realism of you work with it enough -- it's gotta happen RIGHT NOW. It's as though the entire purpose of the program is irrelevant because of all the ready-mades available for it. Need a character in a particular pose? Why bother working it out for yourself when there's fourteen thousand pose packs out there, all available for sale, to do it for you?

Every character mesh has potential. But you sometimes have to work with it to get there.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

 That's the post of the day right there! Go back in time and you always find some example of people creating great images even with Poser 4 or V2 or whatever character. It can be done by those willing to experiment, play and have fun with all this.

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The Real Teruchan

Quote - And there, folks, is the issue. We dont delve into the inherent possibilities attendant to these characters. We want a finished piece right out of the box. Dork doesnt look real enough? Hey, never mind that the mesh has the capability of realism of you work with it enough -- it's gotta happen RIGHT NOW. It's as though the entire purpose of the program is irrelevant because of all the ready-mades available for it. Need a character in a particular pose? Why bother working it out for yourself when there's fourteen thousand pose packs out there, all available for sale, to do it for you?

Every character mesh has potential. But you sometimes have to work with it to get there.

Poserizing Stephen Dillane
WIP: Poserizing Richard Armitage
WIP #2: Poserizing Sine'ad Cusack
Are YOU talking to ME?!
Hey Mister! Looking for a good time?

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

The answer is pretty simple: DAZ figures have more content for them. Sure, you can create your own content for other figures, in which case you probably become less and less satisfied with what Poser has to offer and gravitate towards stronger 3d drug.

Quote - The answer is pretty simple: DAZ figures have more content for them. Sure, you can create your own content for other figures, in which case you probably become less and less satisfied with what Poser has to offer and gravitate towards stronger 3d drug.

No, I don't.  Long live Posette!
dph

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

dphoadley: Well, like I said - probably :)

Mr. Hoadley is, um....unique...LOLOL. ;o)

Laurie

With all the problems using Daz models in Poser , they are becoming a whole lot less popular with me.    ****
I do not care how well they work in DAZ, I use POSER.

*"Mr. Hoadley is, um....unique...LOLOL. ;o)

Laurie"

*No, he is not at all.
 

Posettte is my girlfriend too...you know.....

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Just wondering what kind of problems since I use them with not much issue on a daily basis.