V4 clothing - We've got enough, seriously. I see new themed clothing packs all the time that seemed to be comprised of things I've already got 3 of by the same vendor. Just because you rebundle it and make some flashy promos with a attitude-packed title, it's getting pretty transparent. Oooooh, you included a skirt! AWESOME. Thigh-Highs? WOW!

The Up-Do and the 38 texture packs that inevitably follow. Enough. Our characters can attend a prom every day of the year and have a different Up-Do that looks pretty much like the others.

And while I'm on hair - Straight hair, parted down the middle, ho-hum, boring....who doesn't have 50 of these? Who sits down and says "MY straight hair parted down the middle is going to be so much more awesome than the previous 75 attempts!"

2d Background Packs - Hello? 2d? Really? I'm talking about the ones with couches and stools and chairs and other things that should be sold to me in 3d.

Angelina Jolie Character Packs - We get it, she's hot. She's so hot she's got 30 virtual clones in the marketplace and in freestuff, not to mention other sites. Can't anyone get to work on someone else?

I'm sure I must've missed something, but lately, every day I peruse the marketplace and groan, slap my forehead, say "*Really???" *and go away dejected and empty-handed. A stagnant market reflects the community.

Need: more Long, curly hair...loose curls, messy curls, straight hair that turns into curls towards the tips, both messy and clean versions.

Need: Fygomatic to sell his characters.

Need: More animation packs

Need: More detailed settings

Need: Money to buy these things

End Rant, thanks for your total agreement.

I think we need more rants by William...

And if they don't listen, the he should live up to his name and things should get all messy and bloody... :-)

Your specialist military, sci-fi, historical and real world site.

Having a look at "What's Hot"... who defines this?? Because that's what vendors look at and say: "yep, can do..." and we get a glut of it.

Some things coming out now are fresh and original, but I agree: much of the same-ol' same-ol' happening. I guess the MP doesn't have a same-ol' filter... :lol:

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

I'm mainly a hobby artist, and every single product I've released here is something I needed myself but couldn't find anywhere else to my satisfaction.. :) Most of it consists of dynamic clothes for V4 that I need for my projects.. It's getting better in that department, but was pretty horrible just half a year ago..

I totally hear ya on long, wavy and curly hair..

Couldn't find anything.. Worked around it mostly by making custom morphs.. Some of the hairs by bice & outoftouch work for this, along with tons of work with the morph tool :)

The combination of working on a clothing or item for a project, then also releasing it into the marketplace is really fun and rewarding for sure.

How about a moratorium on the entire marketplace until they allow one to filter by category AND sort by release date? When I look for specific items, I want to see new stuff first, particularly since I usually am searching for hair items, and I've already seen most of them the last time I ran a search. This makes it difficult for me to find something to buy. I know that can't be on purpose.

As far as hair: when you make long hair, please DON'T make the parts below the neck conforming. Make them posable, and make them children of the head actor.

I also agree with WTB on his points above :) However, I think he should change his handle to William The Ferocious :P

How about William The Spot-On? ;) I don't use V4 very often so 90% of the market is of no interest to me & I'm sure I'm not alone, it's time for a shake up & clear out in the market.

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Poser Pro 2010 SR1

It is a shame that these things happen, and of course keep happening, however this isn't a problem you can direct only at the merchants.

If you want to sell something, and sell well, then you have to follow market forces. Whats Hot is probably the only place where merchants can get an idea about what is selling well.

As far as I understand it, the Whats Hot section is mostly down to the number of sales a product has had (in an unknown time period). With this in mind it is a reflection of what customers are buying most of.

Take a look in there and it is comprised of a few categories.

Sexy
Multipurpose (non generic enought to be used in many different scene types)
Something to update V4
Unique and Must Buy

Now it would be brilliant if every product in there was in the last category, but that isn't going to happen, no matter how hard people try.

This opens up the question "how do merchants get a better idea of what will sell, if not from a list of products which are selling well?"

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D

If an item is really unique, it probably caters to fewer people, who need that very unique and specific item in their project..

Quote - If an item is really unique, it probably caters to fewer people, who need that very unique and specific item in their project..

You're absolutely right. I'm one of the vendors who tries to create something else, something that isn't done by everyone else. I'm not always succeed at that, but I try my best.

Lately I've been wondering if it's even worth it...... Modeling and so on takes a lot of time and if the items are hardly selling. All the what has been done a 1000 times before get's all the attention. My stuff is snowed under by yet another we've seen it all before release. The market place is so crowded that it's hard to get noticed or as a customer it's hard to find what you're looking for.

I love modeling, but lately I'm tempted to switch tactics and create what everyone wants, at least I may make some more sales that way.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I think a balance is the way to go. Do some pop stuff to pay your bills, then a unique one to keep your integrity :)

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D

Well, in mild defense of the merchants, pick up a local sales papers and you'll see the same thing happens with RL clothes.

Besides I need more thongs and mid riff exposing armour missing the base morphs so my naked vicky in the temple will fight harder.:lol:

I did see a pretty decent looking long hair on RDNA the other day by Lady Littlefox....long, sides held back with clips and curls down the back.

To Poser modelers/vendors:

-More styles; less lingere type clothing for V4. Get a clothes catalog for pete's sake....visit a fabric store and look at their patterns.

-buy a hair style book or search the web: How many Poser hair sets do you see in a "real hair" version?

-More clotes for M4.

-More Sets: buildings backlots etc.....I DON'T need another freakin Castle.

I've gotten to where I don't even look at the Marketplace but once or twice a month. If those dang Dinosaurs werent so high dollar that's about all I'd be picking up.

The main reason I started modelling my own dynamic clothes was because I couldn't find a pair of decent UV mapped dynamic pants for V4.. I wanted nice casual dynamic clothes but they were hard to find...

If I need clothing for something and I can't find what I need.. I start modelling it.. Chances are that someone else will be interested in it too...

I support some of what is said here. I use V4 almost exclusively and I DO BUY A LOT of items from here and DAZ. What I identify with the most in the above statements is the inability to get our desires for new products voiced in a manner that helps vendors choose their next product. I think there have been forum topics before called "Desired items" or such, but they usually fill up so fast they become useless with hundred and hundreds of individual requests. A vendor would have to be a patient person to wade through all of that. If there was a means by which similar requests were grouped and tabulated, that might help vendors. I believe some vendors (I'm thinking it was Aery Soul) previously asked for suggestions for future products. Maybe someone should take a poll of what is needed and desired (I.e. "Of 200 responses, 98 people said long wavy hair was their most desired product, followed by 55 that wanted more face morphs for V4, followed by ...etc...etc".) I think that's pretty basic market research and maybe even something Renderosity should do for its vendors.

Thanks

We definitely need more lingerie and skimpy bathing suits. I mean there is a myriad of ways you can make a bra and panties and they've only been made a billion times each. That isn't nearly enough.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

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please don't go on with this thread. it makes sense and will surely be locked if you continue ... or even entirely deleted.

you know, its strange how I was just thinking the same thing the other day.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

nodding my head in total agreement

"There's nothing new under the sun."

;o)

Laurie

I think we need a forum for product reviews where negativity is allowed and buying the product is not necessarily a requirement. Perhaps it could be anonymous somehow. Each product released would get it's own thread, and when some thoughtless merchant releases another "thigh-high boots, skirt, vented tank-top" clothing pack, keen observers of the market can say "Really??? No, REALLY???" and maybe even post pics and links of past items which are the same thing or something that could easily have been made by using transmaps of something already existing.

An element of being called out...a gentle public shaming. I know that as a society we've moved away from the possibility of shame and discomfort as a motivator to do better, maybe it's time to bring it back? Ultimately it's up to people not to buy the same thing repeatedly, but in a world without repercussions merchants are free to goad the situation.

Quote - I think we need a forum for product reviews where negativity is allowed and buying the product is not necessarily a requirement. Perhaps it could be anonymous somehow. Each product released would get it's own thread, and when some thoughtless merchant releases another "thigh-high boots, skirt, vented tank-top" clothing pack, keen observers of the market can say "Really??? No, REALLY???" and maybe even post pics and links of past items which are the same thing or something that could easily have been made by using transmaps of something already existing.

An element of being called out...a gentle public shaming. I know that as a society we've moved away from the possibility of shame and discomfort as a motivator to do better, maybe it's time to bring it back? Ultimately it's up to people not to buy the same thing repeatedly, but in a world without repercussions merchants are free to goad the situation.

Will never happen...at least not here ;o). Not that I really want to embarrass a vendor really...not a nice thing. After all, anyone has a choice of what they buy and who they buy from, even if it's something that's already similar to what's already been released. But negativity isn't always a bad thing, until it turns into a round and round that'll never go anywhere ;o).

Having said that, I do miss the Complaint and Debate forum and The Chicken Coop...lol.

Laurie

Do the shamers have to own the previous items? I don't want to see complaints about new boots from people who don't buy any boots and just assume a new pair isn't needed

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

The more choice the merrier... Don't have to buy any of it but I'd prefer 1000 different styles and variations of the same thing to choose from rather than just 1

If the stuff didn't sell then the it wouldn't be produced, somebody is buying it therefore there's a markey for all the choice and variations therefore asking for it to be reduced is going to leave those people with less choice surely...?

No need to flesh out the proposal...it will never happen. We're a society of coddlers these days; everything is beyond critique and the feelings of everyone must be protected at all times, lest they gain insight and experience personal growth from their errors.

I often hope 2012 is true, because this is the society we live in and it's going to hell for it.

I would just like to disagree on the whole curly hair thing. Way too many curly, wavy, ridiculous fantasy hairstyles out there. We need more contemporary, straight hairstyles thank you very much.

Apart from that I agree 100% to everything in the OP.

Vestmann's Gallery

If the vendors aren't meeting the needs of the people Rendo could always go communist.

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

Quote - The more choice the merrier... Don't have to buy any of it but I'd prefer 1000 different styles and variations of the same thing to choose from rather than just 1

If the stuff didn't sell then the it wouldn't be produced, somebody is buying it therefore there's a markey for all the choice and variations therefore asking for it to be reduced is going to leave those people with less choice surely...?

I fantasize that the variations would come by working on the product that's already been released. Transmaps, displacment, morphs and new textures (of course.) Instead, I have a cr2 folder with...let's see..40 mini-skirts. Of these, probably 30 are standard, non-descript mini-skirts.

Remember, we're talking about an article of clothing that is essentially a cylinder with one group and the simplest UV mapping possible.

Edited to add: 40+mini-skirts is not even counting the Long skirts that just could've been tranmapped into minis, or the full dresses that could be transmapped to be all three

Quote - I would just like to disagree on the whole curly hair thing. Way too many curly, wavy, ridiculous fantasy hairstyles out there. We need more contemporary, straight hairstyles thank you very much.

Apart from that I agree 100% to everything in the OP.

Ah, see, you included the description "Ridiculous" and "Fantasy" which is why so many curly hair options are useless.

shrugs I don't have that many miniskirts in my inventory and I don't intend to add any that I don't need.. Products that nobody want sell less and are phased out anyway..

There are plenty of gaps and niches for content producers to move into.. That's what makes it so much fun. Someone likes to make hair, so they make hair.. I like dynamic clothing, so I make that.. If someone wants to make more skimpy party outfits, fine with me.. I like having a choice, like magic man says..

If you think something is missing, and you're a content producer, then make it, and sell it. Someone will be happy, and you'll probably make a good sale on something that's in demand. I have no desire to have a fashion police on an open community like this to start dictating what can and can't be sold. I think the renderosity staff is already doing a good job of keeping a decent minimum quality in the market place. Sure, there are some items that probably shouldn't be there, but I think that's part of having the store open to a lot of different vendors.

If there's a lot of content for Vicky, it's because she's a popular figure. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many people producing content for her.. I like it. I totally agree that there are too few items for Michael when needed.. When something is needed that is missed, well, we should start creating those things..

We have a forum the marketplace wishing well. I go there a lot and have suggested many things myself. What annoys me is that this forum is full of fresh ideas but seems to go ignored. I have said the same thing about clothing catalogs or even online catalogs like Old Navy or the GAP to get ideas. Poses are my beef seems they are all the same with very little variation. It's like no one looks before they create you'll see an outfit come out that has been done by 3 different vendors just months before hand. Boots are another thing that has been ran into the ground. I would think it more complex and time consuming to model a pair of high heel boots or thigh highs then to make simple conforming flat shoes or sandals.

People complain about Daz using the same base meshes for their characters but it seems it's that way for all. You'll see and outfit and then another and another all using the basic mesh with a few tweaks and then packaging it as new.

Threads like this seem so misunderstood no one is asking for a reduction of anything actually people are asking for more not just the same mesh tweaked a thousand different ways to Sunday with flashy eye candy add-ons. As I said no one is asking for a reduction of anything just a fresher choices. From all the forums I've been to and reading threads just like this one says people are hungry and making them eat cake gets old.

I used to spend so much, much money on content and used to get so excited about shopping in the various marketplaces. But each month that goes on I spend less and become more disappointed and it's because I feel the same as William. I know I am only one person with one wallet so big deal if I stop buying. But time and time again I see I am not the only one who feels this way and the numbers grow regardless what others think. Take a look at the various forums around and you see these kinds of threads blowing everywhere.

This is the 3d world with so many talented people you can shake a stick at not a furniture store, not a car company, not a bedding manufacturer fresh ideas should be flowing like a wild river.

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Here is the type of hair style that is dreadfully lacking in the MP, Victorian Governess styles. Here you see Ruth Wilson's Jane Eyre in the 2006 four part BBC version of Charlotte Bronte' classic. There are variations on this style that I can post, if there are those who'd like to see more. dph

STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

Very nice looking. Would be fun to make. :) Haven't made any hair yet though, despite having tons of resources.

Quote - If the vendors aren't meeting the needs of the people Rendo could always go communist.

Hehehe Communist now if only people really understood what that means instead of going by what is told to them. Sorry I had to say that...hehehehe

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Quote - No need to flesh out the proposal...it will never happen. We're a society of coddlers these days; everything is beyond critique and the feelings of everyone must be protected at all times, lest they gain insight and experience personal growth from their errors.

A friend and I were against that so much we started our own discussion forums...lmao. Even brought back the Chicken Coop ;o).

Have I said I missed PoserPros? I think I have...lmao.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - If the vendors aren't meeting the needs of the people Rendo could always go communist.

Hehehe Communist now if only people really understood what that means instead of going by what is told to them. Sorry I had to say that...hehehehe

I just mean change Rendo to a command economy

It would help if DAZ would go along with it too

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

Isn't communist when you have no say? ;o). Just clarifyin'...lol.

Laurie

Communist is where someone other than the vendors have a say. Namely the Rendo admins

If customers already have a say then by all means don't go communist.

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

Here is a very similar style of Victorian Hair, this one worn by Samatha Morton in the 1997 version of Jane Eyre. Notice how the hair parts in the middle, but then drapes over her ears, and is then braided and coiled in elaborate bun at the back of the head. Quite charming really, and could even be used in a modern setting. dph

STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

Quote - Communist is where someone other than the vendors have a say. Namely the Rendo admins

If customers already have a say then by all means don't go communist.

That would be a clean and efficient way to scare the vendors away from a community based on user created content, for sure.

You could make it a prerequisite that to buy from Rendo you can't have accounts at other stores

That way there would be a market here you couldn't reach elsewhere

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

This is from the 1996 version of Jane Eyre. dph

STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS

Quote - Isn't communist when you have no say? ;o). Just clarifyin'...lol.

Laurie

Smiles Ahhh be careful don't want to get too political.

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Quote - We have a forum the marketplace wishing well. ....

...no one is asking for a reduction of anything actually people are asking for more not just the same mesh ...

...I know I am only one person with one wallet so big deal if I stop buying. ..

I went and looked in it. Sadly only about 5 to 6 wishes posted there, and the last one was back in May. I don't think the wishes of one person matter that much, as you allude to yourself. However, if one could show that 200 people wanted the item, that might be different. I also think your point of not rebuking those that offer the same thing over and over again, but rewarding those who offer something new and desired is more inline with traditional market theory.

I saw yesterday where CP said it was going to send out a survey to its customers asking for inputs for its store. I think Renderosity might do the same here and ask about desired new content. This seems so straightforward to me, just a part of market research, I can't imagine why vendors don't just ask what people want. Maybe it's because the nature of the vendors here are that they are individual artists first and salesmen second. They tend to make what they want and mistakenly believe others will want it too (the "my long straight hair will be better than those other long straight hairs" kind of attitude). That would explain a lot of the redundancy.

Thanks

Quote - > Quote - We have a forum the marketplace wishing well. ....

...no one is asking for a reduction of anything actually people are asking for more not just the same mesh ...

...I know I am only one person with one wallet so big deal if I stop buying. ..

I went and looked in it. Sadly only about 5 to 6 wishes posted there, and the last one was back in May. I don't think the wishes of one person matter that much, as you allude to yourself. However, if one could show that 200 people wanted the item, that might be different. I also think your point of not rebuking those that offer the same thing over and over again, but rewarding those who offer something new and desired is more inline with traditional market theory.

I saw yesterday where CP said it was going to send out a survey to its customers asking for inputs for its store. I think Renderosity might do the same here and ask about desired new content. This seems so straightforward to me, just a part of market research, I can't imagine why vendors don't just ask what people want. Maybe it's because the nature of the vendors here are that they are individual artists first and salesmen second. They tend to make what they want and mistakenly believe others will want it too (the "my long straight hair will be better than those other long straight hairs" kind of attitude). That would explain a lot of the redundancy.

Thanks

I think you're right ;o).

Laurie

You know, maybe if the marketplace wishing well were "REQUIRED READING" for all merchants, it might be a busier place. I'm just sayin'. Some folks may not even know it's there at all if they're like me and link directly to the Poser Forum only for their daily reading.

Let me just say for the record there are vendors who do read the wishing well forum and have responded but they are only a few and can't fill the whims of the entire 3D community.

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Quote - Let me just say for the record there are vendors who do read the wishing well forum and have responded but they are only a few and can't fill the whims of the entire 3D community.

Well, I'm all for trying the "system" out, so I shall post a request down there.....

Thanks

There's also a freebie forum. I stumble in a bout twice a year;if I can get textures and sharp edges in Poser figured out, I'll deluge the freebie forum with off-the-wall stuff...

i've been wanting Victorian and Steampunk freebie stuff lately, I think the main thing I don't need is hair colors...;) I think I have 40 each of everything...;)

As for criticism, maybe what we need is constructive criticism; not so much what someone is doing wrong, but how they can make it better.

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)

Problem is, a lot of people ask for stuff.. and then, when someone makes it.. they're not buying it anyway.

There's a lot here (myself included) who has asked for everyday wear for Mike[insert current version] but it's just not enough to WANT something if you aren't going to cough up the money once it's made.

And that's the biggest problem with the Wishing Well. I've visited it a lot in the past and several of my freebies are based on requests made there or here. And my freebies are apparently pretty attractive, judging from the number of downloads. If only the sales were anywhere like them, I'd be happy - AND I'd be making M4 clothes all day long. But with the current market, it's just not worth the effort. Too much work for like 5 items sold.

It has been repeated so many times that it has become a mantra here, but still.. Sex Sells. Skimpy stuff for the ladies. There's a few select things for the guys that DOES sell well, but overall.. stuff for the male characters just isn't selling as good as something skimpy for V4

I think a lot of it boils down to whether or not the vendor is trying to make a living on Poser items or just making a few extra bucks from their passion for making stuff. If I had the talent to create Poser stuff, I would make common everyday things and if they didn't sell too well, I really wouldn't care.
Alas, my skills in that arena are very meager to none.

Edited to add ... if I were a vendor trying to make a lot of my living wage form this stuff, I would be creating some dazzling skimpwear.

Quote - Problem is, a lot of people ask for stuff.. and then, when someone makes it.. they're not buying it anyway.

There's a lot here (myself included) who has asked for everyday wear for Mike[insert current version] but it's just not enough to WANT something if you aren't going to cough up the money once it's made.

And that's the biggest problem with the Wishing Well. I've visited it a lot in the past and several of my freebies are based on requests made there or here. And my freebies are apparently pretty attractive, judging from the number of downloads. If only the sales were anywhere like them, I'd be happy - AND I'd be making M4 clothes all day long. But with the current market, it's just not worth the effort. Too much work for like 5 items sold.

It has been repeated so many times that it has become a mantra here, but still.. Sex Sells. Skimpy stuff for the ladies. There's a few select things for the guys that DOES sell well, but overall.. stuff for the male characters just isn't selling as good as something skimpy for V4

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Quote - There's also a freebie forum. I stumble in a bout twice a year;if I can get textures and sharp edges in Poser figured out, I'll deluge the freebie forum with off-the-wall stuff...
...
As for criticism, maybe what we need is constructive criticism; not so much what someone is doing wrong, but how they can make it better.

I did post a freebie request either here or at DAZ (or both) for a hair brush about 18 to 24 months ago. Seemed like a pretty simple thing for V4 that a lot of people would like. Never got a single reply offering to help. Maybe it's better today then back then. I found a really bad one somewhere (had about 20 teeth in it) and modified it to work for me (which I guess was a good learning experience). Still, it turned me off the "Single voice crying in the wilderness" approach. There are some hair brushes available today by the way, but if they stemmed from my request, the turn around is about 16 months.

I agree with you on the constructive route to prodding vendors forward.

I did post a request down in the Wishing Well forum today as I said I would. Maybe dphoadley should post his request there too....

Quote - You know, maybe if the marketplace wishing well were "REQUIRED READING" for all merchants, it might be a busier place. I'm just sayin'. Some folks may not even know it's there at all if they're like me and link directly to the Poser Forum only for their daily reading.

I for one didn't realise it was there. Link please? I can't seem to find it.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

Agree with TG that the Wishing Well doesn't work. I've also tried responding
to requests there, or showing people that I already had a freebie fitting
their requirements, and got no replies. Never.

For something simple and specific like a hairbrush, a direct request in the
main forum (here or Daz) will usually get results. Provided you ask nice. :)

(Seems to be an epidemic of non-nice asking lately, esp. in Daz forums.)

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Quote - I think we need a forum for product reviews where negativity is allowed and buying the product is not necessarily a requirement. Perhaps it could be anonymous somehow. Each product released would get it's own thread, and when some thoughtless merchant releases another "thigh-high boots, skirt, vented tank-top" clothing pack, keen observers of the market can say "Really??? No, REALLY???" and maybe even post pics and links of past items which are the same thing or something that could easily have been made by using transmaps of something already existing.

An element of being called out...a gentle public shaming. I know that as a society we've moved away from the possibility of shame and discomfort as a motivator to do better, maybe it's time to bring it back? Ultimately it's up to people not to buy the same thing repeatedly, but in a world without repercussions merchants are free to goad the situation.

Like a poll system maybe?

A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY

Quote - > Quote - You know, maybe if the marketplace wishing well were "REQUIRED READING" for all merchants, it might be a busier place. I'm just sayin'. Some folks may not even know it's there at all if they're like me and link directly to the Poser Forum only for their daily reading.

I for one didn't realise it was there. Link please? I can't seem to find it.

www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showforum.php

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William i 100% agree with you.... and i have been thinking the exact same thing for a while now....

I should also add one observation i have noticed, a lot of the textures on new 3d mesh releases are pretty basic and almost crappy looking... almost makes me think its done on purpose to get people to buy the "hyper attitude mk X ultra lethal pathogen turbo edition" texture add on packs !!! :|

Quote - William i 100% agree with you.... and i have been thinking the exact same thing for a while now....

I should also add one observation i have noticed, a lot of the textures on new 3d mesh releases are pretty basic and almost crappy looking... almost makes me think its done on purpose to get people to buy the "hyper attitude mk X ultra lethal pathogen turbo edition" texture add on packs !!! :|

That could also be because modelers are not always the best texturers and vice versa...lol. Those that do both very well are rare or they have a partner ;o).

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - You know, maybe if the marketplace wishing well were "REQUIRED READING" for all merchants, it might be a busier place. I'm just sayin'. Some folks may not even know it's there at all if they're like me and link directly to the Poser Forum only for their daily reading.

I for one didn't realise it was there. Link please? I can't seem to find it.

The presence of such a forum does not necessarily translate into useful data for a vendor trying to determine if there is enough of a market to justify the time spent in creating, testing, uploading, and marketing such a product--let alone the investment by a brokerage in marketing a product on a vendor's behalf.

Suggestions are easy to make, but really useful data comes from sales. Speaking from a vendor's perspective, there is a suprisingly wide discrepancy between what is suggested and what actually sells.

If you like a particular product, then purchase it and let the vendor know that you purchased it. Aside from making the vendor feel good about helping you with a product that you liked enough to spend your hard-earned money on, it gives the vendor useful information on how much demand there is for products of that type.

Now all that having been said, there is an incredible variety of elements out there if you are prepared to look for it. I have found 1930s-style clothing and hairstyles, science-fiction outfits, pirate gear, western gear, and so forth--I can't remember the last time that I invested in a straight hairstyle or a lingerie set.

Posermocap - Motion Capture animations for Poser and Daz3D.

Quote - > Quote - The more choice the merrier... Don't have to buy any of it but I'd prefer 1000 different styles and variations of the same thing to choose from rather than just 1

If the stuff didn't sell then the it wouldn't be produced, somebody is buying it therefore there's a markey for all the choice and variations therefore asking for it to be reduced is going to leave those people with less choice surely...?

I fantasize that the variations would come by working on the product that's already been released. Transmaps, displacment, morphs and new textures (of course.) Instead, I have a cr2 folder with...let's see..40 mini-skirts. Of these, probably 30 are standard, non-descript mini-skirts.

Remember, we're talking about an article of clothing that is essentially a cylinder with one group and the simplest UV mapping possible.

Edited to add: 40+mini-skirts is not even counting the Long skirts that just could've been tranmapped into minis, or the full dresses that could be transmapped to be all three

Only 40 I assume you are talking about v4 now :o) Not sure how many skirts I have, less than 40 but I know I have three who are good to work with; bends well with the legs, have handles to override and adjust and the needed morphs to fit the characters.

The problem is that the only way to know if an item is good to work with is to buy it or if you have bought something from the creator before.

Worse; I have over 40 long skirt and dresses; MFD is used more than 90% of the time, the Moroccan dream dress a little the rest is perhaps rendered with once. Still looking for one who poses better than MFD, yes the Moroccan dream dress has better controls but the poses end up looking to stiff, would pay a lot for something like mfd with better control, but would not know before buying and testing.

Recently I actually missed a skimpy outfit for V4:o) I needed a minimal loincloth for her and I didn’t have anything useable, Ended up using one from V3 in combination with a belt.

Ok, well if were putting a moritorium on stuff, by all means lets put a moritorium on the following as well.

Vendors putting !, !! or worse yet !!! in front of your directory names for the poser runtime. If I think your item is so gosh darned impressive that it should appear at the top of my runtime, I'll rename it accordingly. I spent a lot of time in grade school learning the alphabet, and I'd like to get some actual use out of it - thanks.

Also using vanity naming conventions. If your outfit is called say "Alice Dress" and the name of the directory in the Character section is "Alice Dress by Whoever" then why in the name of hades would you name the mat directory "Artist Who've I've Never Heard of MAT", or worse yet "My Third Party Texture Set with no mention of the outfit it's actually for MAT". Ok, if I only have 3 or 4 mat file directories in that runtime, sure I'll track it down pretty easy. But if your like most and have 30 or 40 mat file directories in that runtime, not having the name of the outfit directory and the name of the mat file directory at least somewhat related is a royal pain in the keester, and it's not like I'm going to remember which artist I bought the "Alice Dress" outfit from 6 months from now. Same with the texture file directory names. Finding them in Poser is possible but it's also a pain, so please for goodness sake try to name them something that actually has some relation to the name of your item, burying it under your artist name pretty much gaurantees I'll have to do some serious looking to find a specific texture or mat file I want to edit 3 months down the road when I've long since forgotten who I bought "Alice Dress" or "Mike's Mighty Pants" from. Your a vendor of 3d artwork who I might have purchased one or two things from all total, your not a rockstar or someone famous who's name and works will be permantly etched into my conciousness. Please start conducting yourself accordingly.

Ok, so that's not to say that you need to forgo using your artist name completely - but a directory called "Alice Dress by Vendor" is a heck of a lot easier to locate than a directory where I have Vendor Name as the main directory, then subdirectories underneath, same with your character/pose file directory names in the poser runtime.

As to the overabundance of "skank wear" for V4, I guess I can't really blame the vendors for making what seems to sell the most. I think that as a community the best way to combat this is with the ratings system - if you buy a product that is not skank wear and it's well made and useful, give the artist some really positive feedback. Tell people why you like the product and that it's a good value for the money.

This gets those products noticed, and they start selling better. Truth be told I don't think you'll probably see a huge shift in market forces anytime soon, but it's certainly worth the effort I think. Just my 2 cents worth, as usual I could be wrong :)

Those are excellent addtions to the moratorium

...and adding this: I have a shirt, shoe, pant, etc directory. Please stop naming your junk "Shoe.cr2" or "Pants.Cr2" Geez!

It's kind of hard to please everybody - I have a very rigid convention of putting anything I do myself under a *Flesh Forge directory. If a user wants to move it they're welcome to, but something I always hate as a user is inconsistent directory names, and another is having everything off the top level of the directory. Maybe if you only had 40 or 50 things in your entire runtime then you'd be happy having everything off the top level but damn, that would drive me insane. At least having stuff grouped by author's name I can make some kind of sense out of what I'm looking for (as long as it's consistent).

My Freebies

Quote - It's kind of hard to please everybody - I have a very rigid convention of putting anything I do myself under a *Flesh Forge directory. If a user wants to move it they're welcome to, but something I always hate as a user is inconsistent directory names, and another is having everything off the top level of the directory. Maybe if you only had 40 or 50 things in your entire runtime then you'd be happy having everything off the top level but damn, that would drive me insane. At least having stuff grouped by author's name I can make some kind of sense out of what I'm looking for (as long as it's consistent).

I don't mind subdirectories at all, I use them quite extensively in fact, but my pet peeve is the folks that name their cr2 or pp2 directories one thing, usually with the name of the outfit, and their MAT file directory something completely unrelated, making it pretty much impossible to find later on without opening a dozen unrelated directories till you find what your looking for.

As it is the best way I've found to keep my runtimes organized, when I do go to install something, is that I install it into a "dummy" runtime, I just made a directory called "Load" that is empty. When I do purchase something, I install it into this directory, then take a look at the directory structure the artist used. I rename them to suit my own conventions, the move the entire thing over to an actual runtime, which empties out the "load" directory and gets it ready for the next install. That way I'm not searching through trying to find where it installed the new stuff, works fairly well. Also gives me a chance to delete all of those damn readme files that I never read anyway and would otherwise just be occupying valuable hard drive space for no good purpose.

And ya, your right, everybody's organizational structure and thought process is different, I'm not expecting everyone to follow my own preferred naming conventions, that would just be silly. Nope, all I'm hoping for is a bit of common sense when the artist does get around to chosing their own directory names. Having a directory in the character portion of the runtime called "Alice Dress" and all of the mat files in the pose section under "Artist Name that doesn't appear in Character directory" with no mention of the fact that these are mat files for the "Alice" dress is really irritating and just downright silly.

My other personal fav is the folks that put things under directories like V4 Clothes or M4 Morphing Clothes. Umm.. ya. Like that is the only set of clothes I have for either character. No mention of what type of clothes they are, etc.. just V4 Clothes. Personally I've always found that to be a bit arrogant. It's as if the artist was saying, "My set of clothes was the only one worth buying for V4. You don't need any others".

Lol.. so no, all in all I don't expect huge changes there, but when the opportunity presents itself I think one should put a "bug in someone's ear" about stuff like this, hopefully a few artists read through this and thought to themselves, you know what, he's got a point :)

People might put them in M4 Morphing Clothes since that is a folder that DAZ started and people don't want to add another folder when one already exists. I always put all M4 clothes into that folder anyway so I can find it easier. Same for the V4 Clothes. Putting it into a common area makes things more able to be found so that is why some people might follow that. I might not remember that the dress is called Alice Dress but if it is in the Clothes folder I might be able to find it.

You can have folders inside of folders so the M4 Morphing Clothes can contain every outfit you have for M4 and it is a common source. Or you could have M4 Clothes, M4 Fantasy Clothes, M4 Sci-Fi Clothes, M4 Modern Clothes and put all the things in the individual folders.

Quote - Also using vanity naming conventions. If your outfit is called say "Alice Dress" and the name of the directory in the Character section is "Alice Dress by Whoever" then why in the name of hades would you name the mat directory "Artist Who've I've Never Heard of MAT", or worse yet "My Third Party Texture Set with no mention of the outfit it's actually for MAT". Ok, if I only have 3 or 4 mat file directories in that runtime, sure I'll track it down pretty easy. But if your like most and have 30 or 40 mat file directories in that runtime, not having the name of the outfit directory and the name of the mat file directory at least somewhat related is a royal pain in the keester, and it's not like I'm going to remember which artist I bought the "Alice Dress" outfit from 6 months from now. Same with the texture file directory names. Finding them in Poser is possible but it's also a pain, so please for goodness sake try to name them something that actually has some relation to the name of your item, burying it under your artist name pretty much gaurantees I'll have to do some serious looking to find a specific texture or mat file I want to edit 3 months down the road when I've long since forgotten who I bought "Alice Dress" or "Mike's Mighty Pants" from. Your a vendor of 3d artwork who I might have purchased one or two things from all total, your not a rockstar or someone famous who's name and works will be permantly etched into my conciousness. Please start conducting yourself accordingly.

I agree completely, but would reinforce this a bit more forcefully. Having purchased quite a few things over the years, I now select items, in large part, based on their user friendliness.

If you do not start the folder name for a texture set with the exact name of the character for which it is intended, I am highly unlikely to buy your items. I am tired of renaming folders just so months later I can determine what something applies to without a relational database. This also goes for vendors who like to put everything under a folder of their name - I understand you are proud of your work, and want me to associate it with your name, but I want to find things later and your name is little help.

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My thoughts:

First, I agree 100% with TG: just because people say they want something doesn't mean they'll buy. Case in point: would dphoadley purchase that hair that he keeps posting images of? Or will he complain that the $10 price is too expensive?
I don't mean to pick on him specifically, but this seems to be the number one excuse from requesters: they want a certain, specific item, but then don't want to pay for it when a merchant makes it. Well, if customers aren't going to buy what they request, why should merchants make things on request in the first place?

Second, the complaint about merchants using "!!" in their folder name is an old one and it's been brought up many times. By this point, I'm surprised that we're not seeing folder names with 30 exclamation points. After all, the merchant has to force his folder to the top of the library somehow. :rolleyes:

Poser has supported nested folders since version 5, so there's no need to name every folder "Add On for John's Product By John": just create a folder with your name, then put a folder beneath it with the product's name. I know it may sound shocking, but customers will prefer a standard naming scheme better than randomly searching for a folder.

Third, the biggest issue of all: you say you want a moratorium on skirts and other clothing? That would be fine, but how do you stop the customers from buying? In my opinion, the only way to change what the merchants are making is to change the market: when customers stop buying V4 clothing, merchants will learn there's no money to be made, so they'll stop making those kinds of products.

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

Quote - [
As it is the best way I've found to keep my runtimes organized, when I do go to install something, is that I install it into a "dummy" runtime, I just made a directory called "Load" that is empty. When I do purchase something, I install it into this directory, then take a look at the directory structure the artist used. I rename them to suit my own conventions, the move the entire thing over to an actual runtime, which empties out the "load" directory and gets it ready for the next install. That way I'm not searching through trying to find where it installed the new stuff, works fairly well. Also gives me a chance to delete all of those damn readme files that I never read anyway and would otherwise just be occupying valuable hard drive space for no good purpose.

That's how I've done it for quite some time. Also run CorrectReference at the same time because there are still missing/misdirected files from a lot of products.

And speaking of readme files (which are, of course, inevitably named "readme" because hey, it's not like anyone else would ever use that name, would they?), I can understand not putting them outside the runtime directory. But buried down in the runtime directory so you never see it except by accident because who the hell looks in their character folder for a readme file? That's annoying.

Yeah I put all my documentation under RuntimeReadme with a filename that is (hopefully) obviously related to what item it's for. I don't follow the DAZ practice of using the "ReadMe's" directory (makes me cringe to read it).

My Freebies

despite what many people seem to assume, this forum and others like it represent only a small fraction of Poser users - the tip of a very large iceberg. the vast majority of Poser products are purchased by an 'invisible majority' - people who never post in the forums, never post an image, and you have never heard of.

even if every single person that posted in a request thread purchased the product (and they wont - far from it), you are still looking at a fraction of a percent of the Poser market. while it may be lucrative for not-yet-established merchants to make niche products catering to request threads, the sad reality that most of them soon realize is that they stand to make very little money for the time invested. almost every merchant i have spoken to has some experience earlier in their career where they made some obscure or niche product based on requests and enthusiastic urging, then had it sell pitifully -- to top it all off often the requestee doesnt even buy it.
...not to mention then the poor merchant is stuck with something like 'Candy - Photorealistic Hairy V4 character with Armpit Hair and Wild '70s Bush' in their store.

so the decision between making mainstream products that cater to 90% of the poser market and making niche products that cater to at most 1-2% is pretty straightforward -- and you cant really blame merchants who have bills to pay for making it. not many have the luxury to so severely limit their potential market. most often the only niche products youll see are from hobbyists who do not need the money and are making products primarily catering to personal interests/passions.
that said, i do believe that if you make mainstream products they should still be different (whether it be style, quality, function, whatever) than everyone elses, otherwise whats the point.

youd get more niche products made if people would actually make some sortof minor commitment to buy, so that the poor merchant that goes out of their way to make it actually gets compensated for their time. this would be an excellent venue for less established merchants to have some guaranteed income and build up a name for themselves.

I would buy if the things I was looking for and sometimes needed were available but since they are not my wallet stays closed. I realize I am just one number in the marketing machine but it is what it is. Most of what is offered in many of the marketplaces I use little of or have no need for especially copy after copy of basically the same item done to death. I am not attacking or trying to be rude it is a fact.

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Then it's more to the point that you all follow your convictions and stop purchasing items you disagree with. If you really ARE the majority, most vendors will get the idea very quickly and be forced to make products you approve of. When working on my own, I do make more normal clothing than I do when working with others and they really are the poorer sellers. If I had to depend on their sales for food I would quickly starve. In truth the vendors don;t drive the marketplace, the buyers do... vendors make skimpy pin up or fantasy clothing because that is what sells. If your "normal" clothing was the more profitable product you can bet your bottom dollar that, that is what every vendor would be bending over to make!

Instead of whole outfits, which often leave little choice but to include a skirt or a pair of panties...what I really want are single pieces of clothing that are unique and versatile.

Here's an example of one fine piece of clothing done right

http://www.contentparadise.com/productdetails.aspx?id=12012

And another:
http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=72971&keyword=bootleggers

Things can (and should lol) be sexy as long as they're not redundant. The textures should be extremely detailed and realistic like these two. Morphs should be organic and not just stretchy, "Morphing Clothes" rips. (How many shirts do you see that, when you scale up breasts, create two hemispheres of fabric without the midsection coming forward? Terrible!)

Yeah it would be nice if that was practical. It is an immense amount of work to hand-craft morphs into a model of any real complexity that fit any one particular morph, and when morphs are done by hand they will never mix well. Tell you what, take any of my freebie outfits that are very complex (I recommend the Demonatrix outfit, for which I didn't do any morphs) and do a fit by hand for any particular morph. Make sure all the rings are not incorrectly deformed. Then multiply that by about a hundred. And for any two morphs, I guarantee you they won't mix well.

You can't expect a thousand hours of labor to go into an item that the vendor is going to make four to eight bucks on per copy.

My Freebies

Um...kinda missing the point, aren't you?

Is your argument that things should just be crappy and that's cool? By the way, Freebies are different from store product, wouldn't you say?

No, I'm saying that if you want high quality perfect morphs, then you must accept either very simple models or a very high price. You are not going to get all three things (high complexity model, perfect morphs, low price). Part of your gripes earlier were that you are bored with bland miniskirt models, and your own example just earlier was Connie's mad-comlex boot model. The freebie I just mentioned to give you a reference point for a high-complexity model that you are free to modify and distribute morphs for, if you feel like doing them by hand :) I'd never sell a model like that simply because the morphs would be wayyyyyy too much work.

My Freebies

Ah, okay, I see now. A higher price is acceptable for something very well made.

Sure - how high though? The problem is, you can't really put a price on that - the vendor will. There's a good chance that the vendor's valuation of their time spent (let alone the broker's +100%) is not going to match your valuation of a typical Poser garment. Would you pay 100 to 150 bucks for a Poser outfit with perfect morphs? Because it would take easily 10 times as much time and labor to do them by hand, for a complex model.

I don't disagree, it would be great if morphs were an easy part of the process, but really they're by far the most labor-intensive if you don't automate the task, and even if you do them by hand they will never mix well (unlike with automation).

My Freebies

A lot of it is what the market will bear... I just purchased Lady-Littlefox's "Victorian Innocence" complete ensemble at a price unheard-of here-abouts, and I don't regret a single penny of it (paid full price!). The quality of this item is incredibly good: a standard to strive for.

I will pay top dollar for quality, but Rendo/RDNA top dollar, not Turbo-Squid top dollar. There are limits: those are mine.

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Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
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proper clothing is tailored/fitted to the specific character you make it for, not simply floating 3" away from the skin with basic morphs that were added with a 3rd party utility.

Daz has weaned their buyers to expect every single V4 morph in every single item of clothing. why? would you rather have one 'universal' item of clothing that fits everything equally poorly, or have something with a limited amount of morphs that looks/fits a character like real clothing should? why do people need 'obese' and 'emaciated' morphs for a string bikini or a suit of armor? for the 1% of people who want to do an anorexic or morbidly obese beach or gladiator render?

buyers have conditioned the marketplace into what it is right now: a merchant releases the exact same leotard mesh over and over again - just with slightly different cutouts each time - with 100 different 'textures' that are actually all just minor hue adjustments in photoshop - and customers eat it up like candy because its $5. they gush about how great the merchant is for selling items for so little.
those same customers will gleefully buy 5 of these crappy items for $5, but if another merchant were to put one single high quality outfit that took 10x as long to make up for $25, those same customers would balk and say 'its too expensive'. so what does that second merchant do? he lowers his quality so he can compete at the lower prices.
the entire marketplace attitude for the last 6-7 years has been wanting more and more for less and less money - despite exponentially increasing poser/D|S product complexity and a plummeting US dollar. well, somethings got to give - and that something is quality.

Quote - proper clothing is tailored/fitted to the specific character you make it for, not simply floating 3" away from the skin with basic morphs that were added with a 3rd party utility.

Daz has weaned their buyers to expect every single V4 morph in every single item of clothing. why? would you rather have one 'universal' item of clothing that fits everything equally poorly, or have something with a limited amount of morphs that looks/fits a character like real clothing should? why do people need 'obese' and 'emaciated' morphs for a string bikini or a suit of armor? for the 1% of people who want to do an anorexic or morbidly obese beach or gladiator render?

buyers have conditioned the marketplace into what it is right now: a merchant releases the exact same leotard mesh over and over again - just with slightly different cutouts each time - with 100 different 'textures' that are actually all just minor hue adjustments in photoshop - and customers eat it up like candy because its $5. they gush about how great the merchant is for selling items for so little.
those same customers will gleefully buy 5 of these crappy items for $5, but if another merchant were to put one single high quality outfit that took 10x as long to make up for $25, those same customers would balk and say 'its too expensive'. so what does that second merchant do? he lowers his quality so he can compete at the lower prices.
the entire marketplace attitude for the last 6-7 years has been wanting more and more for less and less money - despite exponentially increasing poser/D|S product complexity and a plummeting US dollar. well, somethings got to give - and that something is quality.

I agree with this completely. The texture sets I've been seeing lately (and I single out those, because that's what I myself am best at ;o)) have been nothing more than pattern flood fills, 6, 8, 10 to a pack. I could do those too, but I'd feel terrible about it and so I'm still not a vendor. But then again, I would never 1. Release a texture pack with more than three good, quality textures and 2. I wouldn't sell them for 5 bucks. My time is worth something to me but I feel I may as well not bother with better textures for more when there are so many textures with triple the amount of sets for less (and less in quality as well). Blackhearted is right. People only see the price, not the quality. And if they see the quality, then the price turns them off. It's hard to win in that situation ;).

Sometimes you do get what you pay for.

Laurie

Oh, and while I'm on a rant...lol...another thing about textures. People seem to devalue texture artists as compared to modelers in this business, which I think is completely wrong. There's no less work, and in some cases, more work than in the modeling. And after all, a good texture can make a bad model look good and a bad texture can make a good model look like crap ;o). Something to remember ;o).

Perhaps the reason may be that people see texturing as easy, and I guess it is if all you're doing is flood fills. If you aren't, it's far from easy.

Laurie

Quote - People seem to devalue texture artists as compared to modelers in this business

this started to happen around the time that 'merchant resources' and 'texture bases' proliferated.

Quote - this started to happen around the time that 'merchant resources' and 'texture bases' proliferated.

And something I've never used...lol.

Laurie

Quote - Daz has weaned their buyers to expect every single V4 morph in every single item of clothing. why?

A huge portion of the appeal of Poser/DAZ|Studio and various Poser characters is the ability to customize the characters, I don't think the buyer base is going to just get bored with that.

My Freebies

I would like to add this : Don't need a " I set your morphs ++ dials for you " inj-files .This sucks .Come on, create some new custom morphs for V4 instead.

Quote - > Quote - People seem to devalue texture artists as compared to modelers in this business

this started to happen around the time that 'merchant resources' and 'texture bases' proliferated.

ker-ching! ^ This.

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I'm all for keeping this convo alive, it hasn't turned into a bash n' blame, and it's a healthy convo.

That said, don't advertise your store and think no one's noticing...we do.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

My 2 cents...
Am I the only person who's bought merchant resources just to learn from? Like "huh, where should I put this on the map?"

Other than that, it's been a while since anything in the MP anywhere has struck me as something I want to render. I don't know what it is I want, to be honest. I've had one image in mind that I want to render for months now, and It's not even 1/2 way finished. I kind of like this slow-paced work...doing the textures for everything myself, modifying what I'm using, learning to really use the tools I have. Feels kinda nice.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - My 2 cents...
Am I the only person who's bought merchant resources just to learn from? Like "huh, where should I put this on the map?"

Other than that, it's been a while since anything in the MP anywhere has struck me as something I want to render. I don't know what it is I want, to be honest. I've had one image in mind that I want to render for months now, and It's not even 1/2 way finished. ** I kind of like this slow-paced work... doing the textures for everything myself, modifying what I'm using, learning to really use the tools I have. Feels kinda nice.**

That has got to be the neatest thing I've heard anyone say on this forum about how they build their scene / image. That image is going to be incredible to contemplate... sounds like art is a passion with you, Jen, of the slow-burning glow-embers rather than the straw-grass flash-burn.

And I relate. Scenes take ages to put together, and then I have like 40 million versions and all saved to Pz3s than take up space and I'll never open them again.
When you look up 'weird' in the dictionary, you see my face. :woot:

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

:blushing: Oh, no!! Pressure!!!

I'm actually learning a lot, and it's all because I decided to practice what I preach. You don't have to have the latest and greatest of whatever product, you don't have to follow what other people are doing. Art has this way of happening. The idea for what I've been working on came in November, lol. I started getting things around in February...and, by then, I could no longer fit behind my desk (thanks, Galen! LOL!!) Now that I can...well, my desk is covered in bottles and baby shoes :P

But, I still work on it, albeit slowly. Heck, for all I know, I may never finish it. But, I'm enjoying it so far.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - That said, don't advertise your store and think no one's noticing...we do.

did i miss something?

I have a gazillion unfinished renders and finished renders that never even see the light of day...lol. It's always been that way with me. I only put very few in the gallery ;o) My main goal lately seems to be making a scene with nothing except what I created myself in it. So far it's slow - I haven't created much...lol.

Laurie

Saved as pz3s? Thank goodness for terrabyte external drives, hey?

I don't make much either these days, but I do mess around with shaders a lot on really nice stuff... you get eye-popping results... eventually. :biggrin: Still, it's not what I would call art or really worth putting up in a gallery. Just got Photoshop CS3 at a great price, so I might learn to do a bit of post-processing and turn some of these raw renders into something less banal.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

Quote - > Quote - That said, don't advertise your store and think no one's noticing...we do.

did i miss something?

A couple folks took the time to say "don't like what's available, come to my store!!" and nothing more. (Totally different, btw, than saying "This is my method, and I am a vendor".

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I guess those posts got deleted, which would be good. I never saw those.

My Freebies

You would be correct. My post before was more of a "Hey, this happened. Let's not do it anymore" type post, not "HEY, ALL YOU CREATORS, YOU CAN'T POST HERE". Because that would just be silly.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Hello :)
As a vendor and customer I also see the lack of things that could be interesting to see...
As Grappo, I also did lot of the things I sell or use in the renders just because they weren´t available as freebies or commercial products.
And I also feel bored of the infinite similar things that never show me a change or even an enhancement in the render settings... there are yet renders without shadows, AO, rim lights, etc...
And the thing about folds and details is another chapter... heads with growing silk ribbons ;)... skirts that break as if done with board... or as Gabe said: 3 inches floating around the body... necklaces that project shadows as if they were levitating over the skin... and more, shadows strong and defined as under a 1000 watts spot, but without melt the skin, blinding the eyes and decolorize the hair and clothings as bleach... I think there are some confussion here and the 3D has some rules... IMHO, just my oppinion.
I don´t have any problem with the fantasy and the NON figurative aspects of the reality and the art. Surrealism is ok, but all the artistic movements respect some details as privative rights of the proper identity of "art".

I agree, again, with Gabe about the morphs... Take me about 1.5 hours to do each one of the FBM that involve all the body parts... and test it in any pose that the normal body supports, and then also see if mixed with others there are poke... and all that work, probably never will be seen because not many people uses V4 with some FBM except Aiko or some breast change...

And about the textures... definately I pull my hat for the texturers.
I am not good at that. I am good at the shaders using alphas and grayscales and developing procedurals... but I would love to be as those that make textures that look as real embroideries or so...

I used to do those mentioned polls and for me worked ok due the closing of the market where I was selling my products before to start here. People told me what they still want and believe me, sometimes to make them happy pulls me to re-do things when in fact I would prefer to make new ones... but well, one of your ears can hear the people and the other can hear your soul :)

I really would love to see NEW things and maybe, more carefully crafted... There are some outstanding products that never get the exposure or the "fame" that IMHO they deserve.
Just my 2 cents... hope this don´t annoy nobody and if I did speech mistakes ( what is a sure thing) please forgive me because my fingers write english but my head thinks in spanish :)

See ya
fabi

Fabi @FKDesign

One in some place under Southern Stars...
Don't tell me that I am wrong if I say I saw pointed ears this morning, in my mirror... they are there.

Quote - proper clothing is tailored/fitted to the specific character you make it for, not simply floating 3" away from the skin with basic morphs that were added with a 3rd party utility.

Daz has weaned their buyers to expect every single V4 morph in every single item of clothing. why? would you rather have one 'universal' item of clothing that fits everything equally poorly, or have something with a limited amount of morphs that looks/fits a character like real clothing should? why do people need 'obese' and 'emaciated' morphs for a string bikini or a suit of armor? for the 1% of people who want to do an anorexic or morbidly obese beach or gladiator render?

Says who? Proper clothing comes in all sizes in real life. You only see clothing in "Thin Chick" sizes in speciality stores or upscale stores, not Walmart! Does every string bikini need obese or emaciated morphs? No, but at least some of them should. Fat and emaciated people need clothes too. Not that I'm a fan of obese people in string bikini's or thongs, but they have the right to wear them.

As for DAZ being the culprit behind this expectation, sorry. The Market has demanded that these morphs be in everything, not the stores or outlet malls. People have chosen not to buy items that don't have what they want in them and the market merely reflects that choice.

Quote - I really would love to see NEW things and maybe, more carefully crafted... There are some outstanding products that never get the exposure or the "fame" that IMHO they deserve.
Just my 2 cents... hope this don´t annoy nobody and if I did speech mistakes ( what is a sure thing) please forgive me because my fingers write english but my head thinks in spanish :)

See ya
fabi

Fabi, I hold your opinion in the highest regard. Your renders (promo pictures and gallery) are superb and your mesh is spectacular in craftsmanship and cleanliness. I wish you gave lessons.

Whilst there are many who are starting to understand and embrace refining Poser techniques (including material management, light settings and overall composition) not only to improve their work but to overcome some of Poser's inherent shortcomings, most users want to pop a figure into the work area, throw an outfit on her, pose her with a sword and render her in a temple.

Well, so they should. They bought the product: have at it.

And if they are brave enough, pop the results in their gallery: sure.

My initial efforts were beyond lame, but I've been told to keep them there, so that you have a measure of progress. What does seem a bit disheartening is when the same images keep being submitted, no change, no evidence that the artist is trying new techniques, developing new skills.

Perhaps we need a WIP gallery... where people would only post images if they are actually developing some idea, are going somewhere with a scene (as opposed to just a quickie "wow, look what I did" type render).

It's an idea for a gallery, isn't it?

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?section_id=21&genre_id=

> Quote - > > Perhaps we need a WIP gallery... where people would only post images if they are actually developing some idea, are going somewhere with a scene (as opposed to just a quickie "wow, look what *I* did" type render). > > It's an idea for a gallery, isn't it?

It's already there, ;)

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

"WIP" is a category in the current gallery format: what I was refering to was a gallery format that would allow editing and adding images to the same page, as it were (as opposed to separate pages, each with similar names so people can see the images are related).

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

Why not post WIPs in threads in the forum? That's essentially what you're asking for; a gallery, but with forum qualities.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Very good point, Jen. Excellent point, even.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

Quote - Why not post WIPs in threads in the forum? That's essentially what you're asking for; a gallery, but with forum qualities.

People already post images to forum posts now. Shouldn't be too much of a stretch of their imaginations to use the forums.

I bought a couple of Countess/Silver's Merchant resource packs for hair. With the economy the way it is, they help with different colors for Hair styles without having to pick up specialized mat packs. A little bit of time working in the Material Room on P7 and I can use the colors for many of my hair packs.

There are limits, but it helps to learn your tools. I also use Wardrobe Wizard 2 a lot. Again, knowing your tools.

I have been reading the forums looking for tricks to make my favorite Packages go the extra mile with the Generation 4 figures. It's not the perfect process but it works for me. If I find something that Wows me, then I grab it. Or rather I look to see if there is similar items at different price points.

Example is the Windy Wizard Robes. High Quality, but the price tag is more than I can cost justify given my budget. Especially when Platinum Club has Robes available...

I'll have to agree: something has to be pretty incredible for me to shell out more than US$15 (which is closer to AUD$18, and I actually earn less now than when I lived in Calif... the things we do for love :biggrin:). There are a few items that meet that criteria, but for the rest, Morph Clothes and Blender have made things a lot more affordable and flexible.

Much as I like WWiz II, bringing an item into Blender and tweaking the mesh there actually serves more than one purpose: you get a good look at the mesh, and you can add geometry in places you think might need it (flexion/folding). This is what I call making the item my own.
Then, bringing it into Poser with Obj2Cr2 makes the whole conforming process reasonably painless and then I invoke Morph Clothes to allow the thing to fit my favourite characters.

There are some items I probably wouldn't do it to - most notably those that have a lot of morph targets - but freebies and simply-made items yield great satisfaction when managed this way.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: I declare a moratorium on the following things: