Installed to Poser 2010 but when she renders does not show eyelashes and has a white artifact under each eye, anyone else have this happen? Also can't use any clothing on her, just doesn't show up in the window with her. Not sure what I'm doing wrong and Daz doesn't support Poser anymore so asking here. Thanks

DAZ supports Poser but I haven't loaded her yet.

I don't get that in Poser 8...is it their shader for the skin maybe? Frankly, I think it looks awful. I just detatch all the nodes and use VSS ;o) Also, check to see if the textures are set to Quality. If they are, set em to None.

Laurie

Also having a problem in 2010, figure loads but I can't dbl click or drag clothing in, not sure what the problem is, has anyone else experienced this? I was told that Daz does not give tech support for Poser only Studio.

Poser tech support is over at Smith Micro.  Sounds like you are having something much more serious than Poser.

Basically Poser tech support is at Smith Micro but I was just told on the phone that they only give support for Poser and the Poser characters, if it's a Daz product no support. Called Daz tech support and was informed that Daz does not support Poser only Studio. Product works fine in Poser 8 but not in Poser 2010. As far as it being a more serious problem than Poser wondering where you get that since the problem only happens in Poser 2010 and no other program?

Sounds like the royal runaround :o(.

Laurie

They support Poser, they can't do full tech support for it though but you should be able to get some help.

Can you show a wireframe close up there (not rendered) as well as a render?

My Freebies

You guys suck. Yesterday you influenced me to install Steph 4. Now Poser hangs at the end of a render. I blame Daz and you, pj. lol

Aside from the blame the other parts are true - since I started rendering S4, Poser hangs.

---

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Quote - ...since I started rendering S4, Poser hangs.

Now that you mention it....

Even IDL precalc took forever.

Laurie

Aside from the problem with PP2010, has anyone reported problems with Poser 8? I was going to download her for use in DSA3's figure mixer, but not if she's going to bung up Poser (although I could always just install her to DAZ|Studio only).

I didn't really have any problems other than Poser going slow on me during IDL precalculation and rendering.

Laurie

Quote - You guys suck. Yesterday you influenced me to install Steph 4. Now Poser hangs at the end of a render. I blame Daz and you, pj. lol

Aside from the blame the other parts are true - since I started rendering S4, Poser hangs.

I dunno what to tell you about the render hanging.  What steps did you take to install?  Did you run the updater?  Are you loading a newly-updated CR2, i.e. only ones written by the DAZ installer, or ones you have re-saved SINCE INSTALLING?  How does it look with a simple white no-node material loaded on all material zones (not that I think this is likely your problem, just to rule it out)?  How does it look when you just try to render the vanilla un-morphed un-scaled V4 written by the DAZ installer?  What are your render settings, is displacement on?  Have you rebooted?  These are just general diagnostic questions, I've been fortunate to not have any problems like that since the time between P8 SR1 and SR2.

My Freebies

Quote - I didn't really have any problems other than Poser going slow on me during IDL precalculation and rendering.

How does it go with no hair in the scene (Poser 8 still runs like sticky, sticky crap in this respect).

My Freebies

I had no problems with PoserPro 2010 after installing S4, and she rendered fine with V4 textures and VSS.  Haven't tried IDL yet.

A pretty important caveat, not just for V4 but for any V4/M4 variation that is distributed with ExP-type morphs: the newly installed morphs WILL NOT WORK with any CR2 that was saved before the installation, or with existing figures inside of saved scene files.

My Freebies

Quote - > Quote - I didn't really have any problems other than Poser going slow on me during IDL precalculation and rendering.

How does it go with no hair in the scene (Poser 8 still runs like sticky, sticky crap in this respect).

It renders faster than if there IS hair if course, but still slower than with other things I've rendered. And yes, Poser still is terribly slow with hair...sigh. For example, Angela zips right thru, much quicker than Steph4.

Laurie

 Hmnnn

 No problems here with PPro2010 on a MacPro OSX 10.5.8. I've rendered several scenes and been using V4 clothes scaled to 0.93. I've not tried ANY "S4" textures- since I have numerous V4 textures that look just fine.

 Lessee, I just rendered S4 with Danae Rio textures with IDL, VSS3, and BB's envirosphere.

 I am breaking the "law" by using the same HDR image with the envirosphere and IDL AND the same image with IBL. So WRONG!! :-) I would show it butRio uses the same texture maps for color/diffuse AND bump- I remembered to fix that for the face-but forgot the lip. The problem is the grey pencil look for the lips.Since I fixed the face node- at least her eyebrows are not grey pencil.

 About to hit render again after fixing that....

  I know, I know IBL and specular light ONLY. It's the LAW! :-)

  Off topic- thanks again for the Light Meter Prop BB!

Quote - For example, Angela zips right thru, much quicker than Steph4.

Geometry is just geometry, I don't see why that would be a major problem.  Have you tried rendering with materials off (just apply a simple white material with no nodes to all zones)?  The only other thing I can think of might be if Min Shading Rate was set extremely low for any body parts, but in my install they're all 0.2 (default).

My Freebies

My shading rate is set at 0.2. I don't tend to change it ;o).

Laurie

So remove all materials and rule that out also, how does that work out?  People underestimate the impact that materials can have on render time.

My Freebies

It is probably the materials

Question: is it normal for a figure to have 138 null calls in the .cr2?

Laurie

What showed you that info?  I don't know if it's normal, no idea how you obtained that.

My Freebies

I used Notepad++ and counted the number of times Null.obj was called. Vicky is the same. It wasn't magic. And I'm not saying that that is my problem. It probably IS the materials. I was just asking a question, but I'll be damned if you don't come off abrasive as hell sometimes... I don't claim to know everything, I'm not Ms. Gee Whiz Master Modeler, but don't make the mistake of thinking I'm stupid...please...

Excuse me if I'm way off base too. I'm getting rather tired of the attitude generally in the forums anymore...sigh.

Laurie

Ah that's the magnets, yes that's normal.  DAZ replaced the default magnet geometry with a null object that has zero polygons, because you're not intended to jack around with the magnets - having them load with their default geometry just needlessly increases poly count.  This has nothing to do with your indirect lighting problem.

I apologize, I promise you I don't intend to come across as abrasive.  People in general really do underestimate how much things like materials and polygon smoothing can add to render times!  I don't think you should automatically know this, or I'd have said "You should automatically know this" - when I do feel like being abrasive, which happens from time to time, I'm not terribly subtle or shy about it.

Further, you are a very nice and generous person, and I'd never dream of being rude to you, please accept my apologies - apologies aren't all that frequent from me so I hope you see it's sincere.

My Freebies

I've always wondered why the magnets never showed-now I know....

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Ghost not to beat the dead horse here but two techs at Daz informed me quite nicely that they don't use 2010 and they don't give support for it....period. One of them told me they don't test in 2010 so they are not responsible if it doesn't work with Daz products. I have been buying from Daz since they were Zygote, but the attitude has changed there. It's like they and SM got into a fight over the fence and the customers are being forced to take sides....either Studio or Poser but not both if you want support. This is why I come here for answers, sometimes it's just some stupid thing I've overlooked and folks here recognize what the problem is and give me a heads up on it. These forums are changing as well though. some of the more experienced users get impatient with those of us that don't use Poser every day and forget some of the basic steps. I do appreciate the help I've gotten here more than most folks realize, maybe I just don't say thank you enough....thanks all.

No apology needed really. I just wanted to know if all those null calls were normal is all. I'm not as up on the contents of a .cr2 as I probably should be after all these years and I was just curious. I knew it had something to do with all the magnets, but since I don't see that in all figures I was just wonderin' ;o).

Laurie

Oh, today you're all tough huh!  Okay, canceled the flowers and candy!

My Freebies

Ah, love's young dream.  ;) 

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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Me? Tough? Hahahahaha....

;o)

Laurie

Bagginsbill:

Quote - Aside from the blame the other parts are true - since I started rendering S4, Poser hangs.

Since this seems to be my fault - where are you at with this today?

My Freebies

well, my V4 will no longer accept any morphs, nor will S4. Only the S4 morphs show up on both S4 and V4.
who knows what that is about

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Where is the !DAZ folder, and is it in the same runtime as the new V4/S4 CR2 that was written by the installer?  Did you run the updater?

My Freebies

if the question is addressed to me, yes and yes.
I'm thiniing I will uninstall all the v4 s4 stuff and start over, if I can figure out where all of it is. seems like it will be a big job to do.

Quote - Where is the !DAZ folder, and is it in the same runtime as the new V4/S4 CR2 that was written by the installer?  Did you run the updater?

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Hmmmm

Did you install the latest V4 update?

It isn't really a big job (just delete RuntimeLibraries!DAZVictoria 4 and RuntimeLibrariesFiguresDAZ People(Victoria 4-related CR2 files) but I'm not completely sure this is going to do anything useful for you.  If you're careful to only delete those directories and files then reinstalling won't hurt you either, though.

Do you have multiple libraries set up?  By any chance, is there a !DAZ folder in more than one library?  It's probably not a good idea to have that folder in more than one location, if so.

My Freebies

i installed all the updates. there is a possiblity , in fact for sure, another in my P6 runtime which I link to in P8. I just deleted Poser 6 tonight...figured it I'm going to clean up I might as well get rid of all that as I don;t use it anymore.

I'm going to dump P8 as well and start over....clean it up really well :) I've wanted to do this for awhile and then put all the character figures in the main P8 runtime....all other stuff in separate runtimes, other than the stuff that has to go in the main runtime. Will probably leave the content that comes with P8 in there as well.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

I'm performing a series of tests right now with V4 with the S4 channels injected.  PoserPro 2010.  Easch result typed as it happens.

Test 1: Render of V4, basic settings (no IDL) no morphs injected, S4 basic texture.  No problem.
Test 2: V4, Morphs++ injection.  Morphs injected and work, no problem.
Test 3: Render of preceding.  No problem.
Test 4: S4 morphs injection.  No problems, all morphs work fine.
Test 5: Render of preceding.  No problems.
Test 6: Just for giggles, Creature morphs installed.  No problems.
Test 7: Deleted all lights, created a skyball with a texture, and rendered using IDL (low settings).  No problems at all.

Conclusion: y'all did something wrong.

your conclusion may not be correct,

HOW did you install the stuff ? in what order, all new V4, or already there, updated v4, initialization how ?

I applied the new V4 update, did the initialization
then installed S4 and initialized that

when the morpha didn't work, i redownloaded morphs ++ , a new reset, and installed those over the existing ...

still, none of the morphs will load to the figures, the S4 or V4 ...

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Is this after you cleaned up your install, or have you done that yet?  If you were going to redo a bunch of setup anyway then there's not really any point in diagnosing/fixing the stuff you're about to uninstall.

My Freebies

well ... i got it all to work ..finally ..
and that was to redo that initializer thing 4 times in a row....and it finally worked. crap...
maybe that's the key..do it 4 times in a row.
i did it by itself at least 20-30 times..and nothing worked, but 4 times in a row worked. Maybe DAZ should put that in the readme.

4 times in a row ... who would have guessed it was so simple.
4 times in a row ...

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Glad it decided to work I guess...

My Freebies

quite simply ... PITA

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

The gen 4 figures are the twitchiest versions that Daz has ever put out ;o). The installers are fickle to say the least.

Laurie

Quote - your conclusion may not be correct,

HOW did you install the stuff ? in what order, all new V4, or already there, updated v4, initialization how ?

I applied the new V4 update, did the initialization
then installed S4 and initialized that

when the morpha didn't work, i redownloaded morphs ++ , a new reset, and installed those over the existing ...

still, none of the morphs will load to the figures, the S4 or V4 ...

Already there V4 with the other morph packs initialized, standard initialization.

well, at least I proved I was not doing it wrong, it was the DAZ initialization thing.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

I didn't think it was particularly your fault, DAZ installers are too dumbed-down really - you can't specify any directories, and you're never told or shown exactly what is being done.  There should be big red arrows and underscores around the words "ONLY USE THIS CR2, BECAUSE THE UPDATER ONLY UPDATED THIS PARTICULAR ONE".

My Freebies

 If you run the updater and you have V4 in an external runtime, can you put her in there?

You can do what you want AFTER you run the updater, but be aware the updater will only touch the specific CR2s written by the installer.  If those have been moved, or if you look at a previously-saved CR2, they won't work.  IMO the safest way is to install the DAZ figures in your default runtime and manage them from there, if you want to re-save stuff in other locations later then it's not a problem in my experience.

My Freebies

Quote - IMO the safest way is to install the DAZ figures in your default runtime and manage them from there, if you want to re-save stuff in other locations later then it's not a problem in my experience.

until you want to upgrade, that is.  then it's a big, ol' PITA.  one of the SM people posted the other day what i'd always experienced: if you install a lot to your main runtime, it creates problems when you need to switch your main runtime.  personally, it took me ages to get my main runtime in order after switching to P7..

i think both camps can share the blame on these issues.  as far as i can tell, the version 4 systems need to be installed in the main runtime because (as far as i know) there's no runtime awareness in Poser's Python.  so the readScript calls that the files do in the !DAZ folder require what they reference to be in the main Runtime.  if ":Runtime:" always meant the runtime the script was in (best solution), or the active runtime (still better than nothing), i'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be an issue.

if there is a good, non-absolute way to refer to external runtimes and i've just missed it (which is completely possible), please correct me.  it would make my life a whole lot easier.

on the DAZ side, i just installed the updated V4 to a separate runtime to look at files and see how they work on their own.  so far, i can find no trace of why updating V4 was necessary.  the V4 cr2 is from 2008.  the files within the folders in the !DAZVictoria 4 folder all seem to be from no later than 2008.  i can find no trace of Stephanie anywhere.  i don't see any trace of any of the add-ons.  what they heck does initialization do?  if they were open and explicit about what they were doing, it would almost defnitely be easier to troubleshoot.

at the moment, it looks completely unnecessary to update V4 base.  the scripts look to certain directories for files, so all you need to do to add a new channels and morphs is add files to the right directories.  the original files shouldn't need to change. since i know that's untrue, V4 has some seriously hidden aspects.  i mean, i know it's not magic, and these are text files, so i should be able to find some hint of what's going on.  but i'm not seeing it right now.  which makes me wonder whether this needs to be this complex or not.

Actually this business of runtime awareness (what folder you're currently loading something from) is very squarely Smith Micro/EF's problem.  There is an operating system function that will get the current working directory (or file location, or a variety of things) that they just didn't implement and didn't make use of.  The ability to get the current working directory etc. is present in every single programming language and nearly all scripting languages I've ever worked with (and yes it's present in Python).  If Poser is able to see files, read them in and display them on your screen, there is no technical reason this could never have been done, I'm kinda baffled why they never implemented any kind of sanity checking for "what runtime am I loading this thingy from".  It doesn't really bother me since I only use two runtimes though, and this practically never comes up for me.  There might be some excuse or other why this was never done but I think it was just a low priority item that they just never bothered with.

I had thought the DAZ updater makes a number of text edits on stuff residing in the !DAZ folder, which is then read in by the various readScript commands in the vanilla CR2 (which is why previously saved CR2s don't recognize new updated stuff, because all their stuff is saved into a single CR2 and there are no more readScript lines).  If you really wanted to test this - and I don't recommend it - you could remove all of a given figure's folder in the !DAZ folder, reinstall the base, take a snapshot of that, and then install an update and see what exactly is changed.  I can see from looking at their contents that Stephanie's files are all those containing "pe082" in their filenames (apparently she was delayed, since She-Freak 4 is pe085).

My Freebies

This runtime awareness thing is a bit more complicated as just an OS call.
Yes, you can get the pathnames from the OS, but once you have it, what do you do with it?
The "current runtime" is only valid at the time you load the file. Once you load another file from another runtime, the "current" one has changed. Now, what do you do when you want to save a file?
If you store a CR2 or PZ3 or other poser file's content with a full pathname, it becomes tied to the actual location of the current setup. So if you move the runtime, or if you access the runtime from another machine, it becomes a problem.  There has been an ongoing debate whether poser should store relative or absolute pathnames - both have advantages and disadvantages.  Absolute pathnames makes the runtimes miuch more restricted and would break most of the current content (which mostly stores relative paths) and relative paths create problems as described in this thread and has problems with identical named files across runtimes.

SmithMicro has chosen to be on the safe side and not break existing workflows and stayed as it was.

There are solutions to this problem, but they are not simple.

Quote - Now, what do you do when you want to save a file?

Examine what folder is currently selected in the library palette...  Maybe there is more to it than you're saying but I don't get it.

My Freebies

I meant the path references within the file - object, texture, readscript pathnames, etc.

But maybe we misunderstand eachother and try to solve a different problem

oh, i realize that the runtime issue is a Poser issue.  i suspect the issue is the scripts aren't actually running from where they live.  i don't think it's just not bothering, i think it's more complex than that.  but that's just a guess.

unfortunately, i just overwrote my original V4 installer with the updated version.  but you're suggesting something that's actually much more complex than doing what i've already done to isolate the V4 base install.  i'm not confused about the S4 files (which i already have listed).  the whole system doesn't seem very confusing, which is kind of the issue. 

i installed V4 base on its own, in it's own folder, and so far i'm not seeing anything that seems updated at all.  looking by hand at files i'm not seeing anything that enables S4, or any other add-on for that matter, to work.  using search i'm not finding any files that have changed in the past two months except the ones that show the install date as the last modified date.  i've already searched for "082" and "Steph" in any of the text files in the base.   i can't, so far, detect any attribute to the base V4 install that should affect the installation of any add-on.

i totally understand how the cr2 and the readScript references work. those are totally obvious.  what's disturbing me is that if that was all that was going on, the V4 base wouldn't need updating and there would be no need to "initialize."   certainly not 4 times.  there are files that would need to have lines inserted into them to add the base readScript references. but that only accounts for something individual add-ons would need to do, not the base install.   i'd also bet there's a command to say," read all the files in this folder and subfolders," but that's getting ahead of the game. 

something hidden is going on, and as far as i can tell, Poser doesn't need this hidden thing to happen at all.  to really be sure, i'd have to get into figure creation (yuck!), but it certainly seems like a choice DAZ made rather than a requirement of making this system work in Poser.

Wim:

Quote - But maybe we misunderstand eachother and try to solve a different problem

Yeah I think we do, but I'm not really bothered about this either way - someone who really needs this feature to work can press it.

Kobalt:

Quote - i can't, so far, detect any attribute to the base V4 install that should affect the installation of any add-on.

You've missed the top level files then, in RuntimeLibraries!DAZVictoria 4 (for example):
V4headChnnls.pz2
    readScript ":Runtime:libraries:!DAZ:Victoria 4:head:05-ps_pe069_DAZ_Chnnls.pz2"
    readScript ":Runtime:libraries:!DAZ:Victoria 4:head:05-ps_pe070_DAZ_Chnnls.pz2"
**    readScript ":Runtime:libraries:!DAZ:Victoria 4:head:05-ps_pe082_Chnnls.pz2"
**    readScript ":Runtime:libraries:!DAZ:Victoria 4:head:05-ps_pe085_Chnnls.pz2"
    readScript ":Runtime:libraries:!DAZ:Victoria 4:head:05-ps_pe077_Chnnls.pz2"
    readScript ":Runtime:libraries:!DAZ:Victoria 4:head:05-ps_pe073_Chnnls.pz2"
    readScript ":Runtime:libraries:!DAZ:Victoria 4:head:05-ps_mr259_Chnnls.pz2"
    readScript ":Runtime:libraries:!DAZ:Victoria 4:head:05-ps_pe069inj_Chnnls.pz2"

the updater evidently writes this file (and all the others) when it is run, based on contents of those subdirectories named by each bodypart - these files are in turn read in by the CR2.  This allows the original DAZ-written CR2 to be generic.  The same goes for the groups for each body part.

I would thank you for pressing me to figure this out but - err -tbh I didn't really want to know this.

edit: a theory on why this took daveso 4 tries to make it work - shitty programming on DAZ's part

My Freebies

no, that's what i mean.  it does not do that.  S4 writes that line.  as i said, i already searched for "082."  i didn't even do the whole name, just to be sure.  there's nothing about any of those channels anywhere in the base V4 install on its own.  and if it does update that line, that's just stupid and annoying (on DAZ's part, not yours), because the S4 installer could do that just fine.  and aren't we supposed to update the V4 base first?

this is all that's in the V4 base install:
    readScript ":Runtime:libraries:!DAZ:Victoria 4:head:05-ps_pe069_DAZ_Chnnls.pz2"
    readScript ":Runtime:libraries:!DAZ:Victoria 4:head:05-ps_pe069inj_Chnnls.pz2"

seriously, i've looked through all of the Body files, most of hip and head, and spot checked other parts. so far, there's absolutely nothing that has anything to do with S4 before S4 is installed. nor any evidence of the other add-ons.

Quote - seriously, i've looked through all of the Body files, most of hip and head, and spot checked other parts. so far, there's absolutely nothing that has anything to do with S4 before S4 is installed. nor any evidence of the other add-ons.

Unless I'm mistaken, that's because the channels for S4, A4, G4, SF4 don't actually exist within the V4 files/CR2 until you install them and run the updater for that character. The updater modifies the CR2 to add the necessary number of channels for that character.

________________________________________________________________

If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.

no, the cr2 is not updated.  it was last changed in 2008.  and it doesn't have any extra channels at all.  it has readScript references that point at the scripts in the !DAZ folder which either create channels or point at other files that create channels.

in other words, it has lines like this:
        readScript ":Runtime:libraries:!DAZ:Victoria 4:V4chestChnnls.pz2"

and that file has references to other files in the chest sub-folder.  that's what's puzzling me.  sure that file needs to change when there's a new add-on, but as far as i can tell the base V4 install doesn't do that.  in fact, i'm guessing that what "initialize" does is make sure that all of the different base files reference the right number of files in each folder.  so it has as many new channels as you or i have add-ons. 

i understand how an add-on seems to work.  what i don't understand is why this would mean you need to update the base at all.  and so far, i'm not finding what got updated in V4. the only files that have a recent date have the install date, and those are the files that just point at the other specific add-on files.  and i could see the base V4 install being the one to change those files and add the reference to the new add-on files (it would be annoying, but i could see it), except it doesn't seem to add anything that isn't there yet.  afaik, the process for installing Stephanie was to update V4 base first. and those files only update to include new add-ons when the new add-on is already there.

and here's another anomaly: i just went through the whole annoying process of loading all my morphs into one figure.  it's a real PITA because most custom character morphs come with some Morphs++ settings which need hunting down and turning off (i just want the ability to morph, not the preset).  and a few involve morphs that are only accessible in the body part.  anyway, i managed to add all the morphs without having any of the Version 4 morphs or scripts in my main runtime.  i just tried loading them, to see what would happen, and it worked.  only the Posermatic NGM morphs needed me to say where something was.  i've tested them, and they seem to work fine.  i have no clue why.

It seems like S4 is just V4 scaled to 90 percent.

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Quote - You guys suck. Yesterday you influenced me to install Steph 4. Now Poser hangs at the end of a render. I blame Daz and you, pj. lol

Aside from the blame the other parts are true - since I started rendering S4, Poser hangs.

Out of curiosity, where do you have the !DAZ Folder located?
I had alwasy had the !DAZ folder located in my external poser runtime V4 and everything always worked correctly, well as well as can be expected.

I installed Steph4Elite to the same External Poser RT and nothing was working correctly for the S4E Moprhs etc............

I Cut the !DAZ folder from my V4 RT and Pasted it into my P8 Main RT. Ran the batch file and everything works correctly now. From P7 SR3 onward it shouldnb' be necessary to have that !DAZ Folder in you poser Maine runtime. Possibly something different has happened and now Poser likes it there, as with Python Scripts????

I can still have all of my external RTs and every morph for V4, G4, A4, S4E, Aged etc etc run fine from there external RTs, as long as that !DAZ folder is in the Poser8 Main RT.

It seems to work fine that way for PP2010 as well, but as mentioned in the Topic, I have noticed similar happenings as mentioned.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Quote - Unless I'm mistaken, that's because the channels for S4, A4, G4, SF4 don't actually exist within the V4 files/CR2 until you install them and run the updater for that character. The updater modifies the CR2 to add the necessary number of channels for that character.

In reading through the Daz Forums, people have been having troubles with that Updater Batch File doing as it is supposed to. Several People have run that Batch fil 4,5,6 or more times to get it to take.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

Kobalt:

Quote - no, that's what i mean.  it does not do that.  S4 writes that line. 

Right, and the updater is invoked as part of the installation unless you force it not to run (which I've never tried actually and I'm not going to do).

Quote - no, the cr2 is not updated.

Right also, I see it working that way as well.  The CR2 relies on readScript commands so it can remain generic - it's the files that are called by the readScript commands that are changed when you install an update.

Quote - what i don't understand is why this would mean you need to update the base at all.

It's not the CR2 that gets updated - and I realize this contradicts what I've said before, I'm sorry.  I was guessing how it worked, now I'm pretty sure I understand it correctly.  Actually the CR2 might get some kind of update, if some JCM/JSM is modified between updates, but I think DAZ would go back to the base V4 install to add that kind of thing.

Quote - anyway, i managed to add all the morphs without having any of the Version 4 morphs or scripts in my main runtime.  i just tried loading them, to see what would happen, and it worked.

This is because when you load in the DAZ-written CR2, the readScript lines are read, which calls those various *.pz2 files and silently creates all the channels and group nodes for you,  When you save a new CR2, the channels are written into the CR2 and there are no readScript commands any more.  When you run the various DAZ INJ poses to load the DAZ morphs, these will un-hide those channels and load their deltas.  For third-party INJ poses, like some of the ones I've done, they may also change the friendly name (the name that shows up on the Parameter Dials, not the internal name.  I might be misunderstanding what you mean, but this makes perfect sense to me.

Still a bit mystifying why it should take multiple tries to get the updater to do its thing, I can only blame crappy programming there.

My Freebies

Quote - It seems like S4 is just V4 scaled to 90 percent.

No, there's a lot more in there than that - each of the "Proportions" dials does something a bit differently.  The Petite dial does scale the Body down by 90%, but it also scales the thighs and shins to 95% each, and it scales the head up to 110% (actually this is blended between head and neck in a not-quite-obvious way).  The other dials do other variations on that, some scale the feet, some scale the hip, etc.  Plus there are a lot of new (and rather nice) morph targets.

My Freebies

S4Elite Face using PP2010. I dragged her close to the clipping plane to get the eyes, lashes etc......... Yes, PP2010 did hang on the IDL Calculation.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

PP2010 did hang during the IDL Calculation

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
Thomas Jefferson

oh oops, you're not talking about eyeballs...

The reason Indirect Lighting hangs there is that it takes a lot more calculation to deal with transparent materials (eyelashes, eye surface, cornea, all stacked on top of each other).  Yeah it's aggravating.  You could maybe speed it up by just not using the eye surface material at all any more (it's of kind of dubious value anyway).

My Freebies

I have 2010 and I pulled up steph4 after reading here about the problems. she loaded fine for me. No problems with how she renders altho she is a tad slow but I have that problem with v4 as well  lol

pjz99 - i think you're not understanding at all what i'm saying (though i appreciate you trying).  work from the assumption that i know what i'm talking about and that what i'm pointing out isn't obvious. 

first of all, i can see how the system works (you don't have to keep restating the obvious), but the base V4 install, which was updated and said to be required to install S4 (that is installed first) does not have any evidence of any file, line, or piece of code that connects it to S4 or any other add-ons.  looking at the files it installs on its own, there should be absolutely no reason for the V4 base update whatsoever.  not no reason in general, like changing JCM, but no reason for the S4 install to need it.  based on everything i've observed, and that obviously you've observed too, the S4 install should work without the V4 update.  that people are unable to get S4 to work without the V4 base update is a concern to me, because it means something outside of what  you've talked about and keep focusing on is getting changed.  it's not in the readScripts lines, it's not in the files you keep talking about, and it's not in the cr2. edited to add:  this hidden complexity seems to be the source of a lot of problems, and as far as i can tell, completely unnecessary for pure functionality.

second of all, there's no second cr2 that needs injections.  what you're saying makes no sense at all, in fact.  when i have a new cr2 with no readScript, that means no new channels, and no need or ability  to inject new channels at all.  and certainly no ability to make hidden channels automatically.  so injecting the morphs wouldn't work for a new, Poser-saved character. 

but that's not what i did.  i had to rebuild my "loaded" v4,  which means starting from the base cr2  (or actually Morphia's) with all the readScripts.  all the readScript references are relative to the main runtime  (":Runtime...."),  and point at files with other relative pointers.  they should only work when they're in the main runtime.  instead i left everything in my version 4 runtime, and they installed anyway.  i did save a new loaded v4 cr2, which has no more readScript calls, but that will not take additional injection morphs and has all its morphs and channels loaded.

so despite the fact that there shouldn't be any context awareness, it behaved as if there is.  though it did have a problem with the Posermatic morphs.  i can't see any difference between them and other morph sets.  also, i have file search on shallow in my preferences.  i would think that would have precluded operating as it did, but maybe it made it look in the active runtime first?  i have no clue.  all i can say is that i got performance conflicting with both what people have posted and what DAZ has explicitly instructed.

Sorry if I seem to be stating the obvious (and if you understood this stuff before then you were ahead of me, because ***I ***didn't).

Quote - looking at the files it installs on its own, there should be absolutely no reason for the V4 base update whatsoever.  not no reason in general, like changing JCM, but no reason for the S4 install to need it.

I don't take it for granted that the base V4 install is necessary - since the S4 installer writes a new S4 CR2 it seems likely that the only thing required from the V4 base would be the geometry (the OBJ file) - and possibly not even that.  I can't unpack the installer to check whether it's included or not and I'm not going to remove my working copies to find out for sure.  DAZ's installation process evidently has some problems and I'm not really anxious to provoke any :)

Quote - second of all, there's no second cr2 that needs injections....

Well there is actually, if you wanted to use the base "Victoria 4.2" CR2 - editing this, and editing a newly-saved CR2 of the same figure, I can see that the channels don't exist in the installer-written version (but will be created as soon as loaded into Poser) and they do exist in the newly-saved version (because Poser created them based on the readScript operations and saved them into the new CR2).  What the "Morph Injection" poses do is load the DELTAS (the actual morph data) - for almost all of the morphs, this is not done until you take that step, the morph channels are there but they are empty and won't do anything.  The various bone scale operations will work, which may be a little confusing since they aren't always obvious as to which is which (e.g. the Proportions dials for S4 are listed under Morphs, when they're not morphs at all).  I may be misunderstanding quite what you meant here, but this seems completely as I expect it to be.

Quote - instead i left everything in my version 4 runtime, and they installed anyway.  (etc)

Yeah this is Poser's silent search thing going on.  If it was up to me, referencing a relative file location that is not found in your current runtime should at least bring up a warning of some kind - but Poser silently checks through other runtimes and will open what matches a called filename.  Usually.  I don't know what logic Poser uses to track this kind of thing on the first or subsequent load attempts (e.g., does it always search all runtimes? what order? if, after the first load, you then change runtimes and load something that references the same filenames, does it search again or prefer to use what it already found earlier?  maybe Wim knows this stuff offhand, nobody outside the Poser prgramming team could say for sure)  It seems likely to me that if you have these files installed in multiple places, you can get weird results like this.

My Freebies

I don't believe the V4 update is needed for S4. However, some recent character sets (which use ExP) have included the batch file and utility needed to perform the updating, so if one of those has been installed and then unisntalled using the uninstaller then those files may be missing and installing any version of V4 (update or the older one) will restore them. But if that is the issue some people are having I would expect an error message from the installer or the desktop shortcut to the updater.

As an aside, you can use S4 either through the Stephanie 4 cr2 (in which case the figure loads with the base morph applied) or through the V4 cr2 (in which case the channels are there but the morphs are zeroed).

One other note:

Quote - i did save a new loaded v4 cr2, which has no more readScript calls, but that will not take additional injection morphs and has all its morphs and channels loaded.

That also seems as expected, if you mean "ExP injection morphs" in place of the bolded text.  INJ format morphs that load onto an existing channel (for example, the PBMCC* or PBMDC* channels) should still load in that case, although only the last one in will work in cases where they try to load onto the same channel.

My Freebies

I installed v4 in an external runtime (long ago), never had an issue. I installed s4 no issues. I have rendered s4 with the s4 maps, and vss skin shader3 and have had no issues. I have not installed the v4 update, nor have I tried rendering without vss skin shader3. 

Instead of running the whole installer multiple times, have you all tried just running the .bat file?

note: using pro 2010 and win 7 64.

well, i can understand not taking it for granted that the base update is necessary. if it's not necessary for S4, exactly what was it necesary for? and several people have reported not being able to use S4 until they updated V4 base first.  so it's necessary at least part of the time, and i can't see (so far) why that would ever be true.

the issue, to me, is that DAZ didn't say what they updated, didn't say why it was necessary, include obscure steps in installation, and have generally made the whole process of updating more complex than what seems to be necessary.   if "initialization" is recommended, then why is it optional? if almost no one knows what exactly what it does, how can they make a decision about it?   why would initializing 4 times make a difference?  what stopped it from working the other 3 times? 

lots of people are experiencing lots of different bugs and highly variable problems with installation.  and looking, i'm not finding any information about how these installers actually work and why.

i see what you're saying about the saved cr2, but at the same time i don't see how that has anything to do with anything i mentioned doing.  why would i duplicate an empty V4 base?  i know what morph injections do, including noting that some of the ones i own load remote data and some include the data within themselves.  the self-contained option seems neat to me because it bypasses the runtime issue. 

i said _additional_because i meant channels additional to the cr2.  any saved cr2 wouldn't have any slots for new add-ons.

i know Poser search happens silently, but you know, i'm not even getting a response like it's searching.  i'd say the load time is about the same or shorter than when i had the files in the main runtime.  and i have absolutely no clue why it treated Posermatic's files differently.  oh, i know!  there's a Posermatic folder in the main runtime, because that's where i keep my Poser-owner figures and supporting files.  i have Miki 1 and some Posermatic morphs for her.  and it reacted pretty immediately to not finding them.  so i bet it's encountering that folder, not finding the files, and asking about it. so it might not be doing much silent searching.  it seems to look in the specified place but in more than one runtime.  i can't even be sure it looks beyond the main and active runtimes.  it's definitely not searching in general, or it would have found those files without asking me.

actually, they're not in multiple places.  they're only in my version 4 runtime.  i'm pretty clear on where all my files are and (mostly) what they're doing.

problems with installing add-ons to V4 are so common that i thought (and still think) it might be a good idea to share information about what the installers are doing and how the add-ons work.  that said, i really, really don't need you to keep talking about how injections work.  as i've said a few times, i already understand that.  it's completely obvious how all of the channels work, and where and how they're referencing other files.  unless you can explain what got updated in the V4 base installation since it wasn't the cr2 and doesn't seem to be any of the ExP files, you really don't need to keep trying to teach me what i already know. 

there was a post by one of the staff about the update for V4 in the forums, just can't remember the thread. the updates were something to do with LOD to make it easier for Poser users to use the lower res versions of V4.

The updates added LoD levels to M4 and updated those with V4 (I'm not sure what they did, beyond put the files in a different folder I think). Although you can use the LoD OBJs in Poser to get a (morphless) lo-res version of the figures, they are really a DAZ Studio thing at the moment. As I said earlier, it's possible that the people who found the update helped with S4 had either lost the utility files to an uninstaller, or to a folder move, or it may be that they had a somehow incomplete V4 installation. Another possibility is that the updater shortcut on their desktop points to a different V4 installation from the one they were adding S4 to. Installing v4, updated version or not, would fix any of those problems.

I don't know why the "initialisation" step is optional - there could be a few reasons, such as allowing security checks if the user wished or not having to run the step multiple times if installing several ExP sets or not needing it (DS with the Power Loader scripts for the figure installed).

In theory, as long as you have only the one installation of V4 then installing every add on to that location should always work - just run the initialisation/updater once done installing and all should work. I have one proper V4 (and the V4 Quickstart in the DS AppData folder) and that has (so far) been reliable. Multiple or moved installations always carry the risk that something will be missed or that the wrong updater will be run (if you do it after installing).

Part of the basic problem that would debug these installs in a hurry...

When Poser can't find an object file or a texture file it throws up and error and asks you to go find the missing file. When it can't find a readscript file as some report there SP4 morphs are not working, there is no error thrown up. (at least on a Mac install there is no error). So you think you have a good working install, when in fact you don't.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"