Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

oh damn. so I should have paid more than $50 for trueSpace 5.2 that has IES support in it......

"***oh damn. so I should have paid more than $50 for trueSpace 5.2 that has IES support in it...... "

No Sir
you should have paid whatever "caligry" thought was a marketable price.
And how relevant is your $50 truespace today? ...any updates??

Oh wait it was sold to MS and promptly killed ,IES light and all.

I doubt anyone here belieive poser will actuallly become Cheaper if a
built from Scratch Version had the aformentioned features.

Cheers

http://rapidshare.com/files/116873427/Lithonia_Lighting.zip.html

hey. don't you go calling me names. no one calls me 'sir' ..I work for a living.

No but I bet adding GPU support would require a hell of a lot of rework to try to make Firefly run on it. I don't think that's how it will happen...

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

LuxRender is free & will shortly have GPU rendering built in, scripts are in the works for both Daz Studio & Poser. Not built in I know but at least it's a start & it won't cost an arm & a leg either.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

yeah I can imagine DS/Poser going in that direction more easily than trying to make their existing renderers work on GPU.

It's not the tool used, it's the tool using it

Ow! bagginsbill makes my pointy head hurt.
And yes, Poser does need to be streamlined to make it look and work like a modern program, instead of a retread of something ten years old.
But it should also be cheaper, under fifty dollars if possible, and be a perfect release requiring no service packs or patches. A complimentary box of Raisinettes included in the packaging would be a nice touch too.

Quote - > Quote - Loaded question to BB!

What would you specifically want added to the Material Room? (Refresh the memory of us old folks :biggrin: )

So many things. Let's start with the fundamental premises.

Parameter nodes - I should be able to place parameter nodes in a shader that are recognized as such. These would be presented in the material room as dials and color patches on a Material Parameters tab. Nobody should have to poke around in the advanced material room if they just want to use a shader. The settings of these should be able to be saved in a new library file as presets, so users can mess with parameters and save them, not save the whole material collection. Then they could try different shaders, but re-use the same parameters. For example - suppose you have 3 different skin shaders, and lots of different colors and shine settings, and you want to try out all three shaders with all your preset parameters. First-class material parameters would let you do this with very few clicks.

The next one is to deal with complexity. There should be a Composite Node. This is a technique I use in all the software I write that is to be used by humans. It is like an integrated circuit. Inside, there is a shader but no surface. Outside there are just inputs and outputs. At the boundary, you connect the IO pins on the outside and the inside to other nodes. The insides never need to be looked at by people who use them. Composite nodes should be in the library and can be loaded as if they were built-in nodes.

Any composite node that has parameters inside should expose them on its outside as editable parameters, just like nodes do today. If there was such a thing in Poser, I'd take my 14-node true Fresnel reflection sub-shader and make it a single node for everybody to use. Then you would not need matmatic just because you want realistic reflections.

Texture assets (color map, bump map, etc.) should be separated from the shader nodes. A material should consist of texture assets and a shader, specified on separate tabs. I should be able to replace the textures while keeping the shaders, or replace one or more shaders while keeping the textures.

So I'd like to see a node called "Texture_Map", to replace Image_Map. It should not have a file name. Instead it should have a property name, such as "Diffuse Color" or "Bump", that I can type in. Perhaps also there should be a few standard derivatives of this with hard-coded names such as Diffuse Color, Diffuse Value, Bump, Displacement, Specular Color, Specular Value. These standardized names would promote the correct placement of images into a texture set. In addition, it would have all the other properties that are already on Image_Map, but with a twist. The actual value can be overridden or combined in the Textures tab. This way, you can set up the scale of a tileable texture independantly of the shader.

In the "Textures" tab, you'd load up Diffuse Color, Bump, and so on as needed. The Texture_Map node in the shader would not care what the file names are. It would only care that it connects to the Color map, the Bump map, etc. For each texture, it should also offer (as an advanced option) settings for U_Scale, V_Scale, tiling mode, etc - most of the stuff that is in the Image_Map node. The final effective scale would combine the scale in the Texture_Map node with the scale in the Textures tab by multiplication. Most of the time, both would be 1. Maps used for data should have value scaling and offset - particularly bump and displacement maps. So you can set the middle gray to mean "no change" like all the other apps in the universe, and then adjust the amount of bump or displacement without poking around inside the shader.

This alone is worth an upgrade. If this was the only improvement, I'd be all over it. It means that people can load a shader once, and then play all day trying it out with other texture sets. They would not need VSS to re-apply the shader when switching textures. Or - they could try out different shaders while keeping the textures. Either way, no more need for VSS, at least for this purpose.

There is another thing VSS does that could be built-in - that is to put materials into groups. We need two kinds of groups: shader groups and texture groups.

A shader group let's us ignore the fact that there are 14 skin zones. We can define a "Skin" group, put the 14 material zones into it, and then we only have to load or edit one shader to change how the skin looks.

Shader groups that span multiple props and figures would be even cooler. You have 8 dining room chairs. You want them all the same, but you keep adjusting the shader. Do you like doing that 8 times? No. You want one shader for all 8 chairs.

Similarly, many figures have multiple material zones that need the same textures - they are UV mapped onto the same instance. So a texture group would take care of that. For example, unless you want two different eye colors, it would be great if there was a Texture Group eye = [left_iris, right_iris, left_cornea, right_cornea, left_pupil ...]. See what I mean? I don't want to load the fricking eye texture into 10 materials - just one. I don't want to load the body skin and body bump into 14 places - just one.

With this second addition, VSS goes away completely.

Notice that so far I haven't talked about new node capabilities. This is simply re-organizing how materials and textures are represented in a data model that is far more convenient.

But for real new nodes:

SSS node - a real one, not useless like FastScatter.

Refract2 - a better Refract that understands that you can enter and exit a surface and that the bend angle is opposite when that happens. Also should understand something about scattering (decreasing luminance based on distance travelled.) Even better would be if it did volumetric sampling. Ever try to make a real-looking marble? (not the material, but the glass toy used in children's games) Can't be done with a simple sphere.

If SSS is not reasonable, then I want:

Ray Distance - let me launch a ray and tell me how far the ray went before it hit another surface. Let me qualify this with whether or not the surface hit has to be from the same material and/or actor as it is starting from. With this I could fake SSS somewhat. Maybe a variant could include the ability to launch a bunch of rays and combine the distances found using a user-supplied function: examples of useful ones would entail mean, average, max, min, gaussian, cosine, etc. Perhaps also a measure of standard deviation would be useful. This would require two outputs from one node - something Poser can't do today.

So let's add that - allow a node to produce multiple outputs.

Data I need to do interesting things:

Camera Position (where is the camera)
Camera Direction (which way is it pointing)
Camera Vector (which way to the camera from where I am)

Data I need to do better procedural textures:

Model P (coordinate of the object in model space, not world space: options to including scaling or not, rotation or not, etc.)
Model N (model space surface normal direction, not world space: similar options as Model P)

(If I had Model P I could do procedural stockings. If I had model N I could do procedural suntan. If I had both, I could do procedural ethnic variations of skin.)

I also want an option to use world-space, model-space or UV(W) texture space for every node that generates any sort of pattern, such as Cellular, Fractal_Sum, etc. Textures are usually two-D, but geometry can have not just U and V, but also W coordinates. This would allow the possibility to define a path through a virtual space. That virtual space defines a 3D pattern. The UVW coordinates cut out from that 3D pattern.

I'd want a W node.

If that is too much, then I really want this node:

Actor Scale node - a node that tells me how the object was scaled in X, Y, and Z.

The most prominent example of what I could do so much better with these coordinate space solutions is wood. Today, if I make a procedural wood shader based on UV coordintes for a generic box, and you stretch the box, it the texture stretches instead of revealing more wood. If I had Model P that would no longer be a problem. There are other interesting cases.

For example, suppose you put a tiling wallpaper on a one-sided square. You scale the square to make a wall. What happens to the texture? It stretches with the UV space. I would solve that by changing the U_Scale and the V_Scale to match the Prop Scale in X and Y. Problem solved without issues.

====

I have many more but these are key.

Quote - What I'd really like to see changed next is the camera and general 3D navigation system, If you use Wings, Blender or 3dsmax for a few minutes it hurts going back to Poser. Scene management could use an upgrade too, implementing grouping and layers.

I'd like to see them allow rotation relative to the scene as well as the object's own axis.

I now have IES lights working in Poser. This will work in any version since Poser 5. It's a matmatic script that reads an IES file and generates a Poser light shader with math nodes that implements what is in the file.

Just say something isn't possible in Poser, and I can't help but look into it.

I would have done it much quicker but it took me a long time to understand the IES spec. The script is actually only about 40 lines of code.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

starts digging out his list of IES light sets download sites

Quote - I now have IES lights working in Poser. This will work in any version since Poser 5. It's a matmatic script that reads an IES file and generates a Poser light shader with math nodes that implements what is in the file.

Just say something isn't possible in Poser, and I can't help but look into it.

I would have done it much quicker but it took me a long time to understand the IES spec. The script is actually only about 40 lines of code.

I guess you've been called a genius already? ;o).

Laurie

Oh shit. Now that I have these, I'll *never* use plain old spotlights again.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

I'm using these. There's a TON of them in there.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

lol. :)

I'm not sure what an IES light is, but it looks nice.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Get this, too. It's very nice for browsing the hundreds of lights you have. It will do a preview render of any light instantly as well.

http://www.photometricviewer.com/

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Quote - lol. :)

I'm not sure what an IES light is, but it looks nice.

IES = Illuminating Engineering Society.

And it's a file format.

The IES organization established a standard for manufacturers to document how their lights behave. These documents are used in high-end 3D visualization of lighting arrangements, in high-end packages like Max.

The manufacturers want you to buy their lights, so they publish settings for free. Which means there are literally thousands of pre-configured lights - all you gotta do is import them.

Poser users could not do this - until today.

I still have a few things to work out before I publish a new freebie.

Also, the IES file format has several variants. I've only dealt with one of them. Also, I have not dealt with asymmetrical lights yet. That will be a little bit tricky. So far I'm only dealing with round ones - ones that don't look different if you spin them.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Wow, that browser looks handy. Thanks for the link :o).

Laurie

This is Lithonia_LightingDownlightingJ88110909.ies.

(Looks like I accidentally grabbed the wall and moved it.)

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

So, do these lights have the falloff and stuff built into them? Or does Poser still control that?

Laurie

Poser is doing the distance falloff. The shader is doing the falloff with angle.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

pardon, but does that mean that those of us who haven't been able to upgrade to P8 and use material falloff and linearization can't use these? i already have inverse square and linear falloff Matmatic functions for my lights. would your implementation make it possible to combine those?

wait, i see you're adjusting color. i can definitely make this work with my falloff (which affects intensity). and i'm not too concerned with color, because i don't really use gels and can kind of eyeball basic light color most of the time. but i'll post just to shout out for us non-PP2010 users.

You can combine this with the shader-based distance falloff as well. I just didn't bother at the moment.

I'll give you the script.

Do you want it right now as is?

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Quote - Poser is doing the distance falloff. The shader is doing the falloff with angle.

Hmm...interesting (and nice ;o)).

Laurie

oh, i can definitely wait. and i don't need you to combine it, per se. i was more thinking about the ability to use it with the scripts i already have, and i know you don't usually make stuff to work with other people's scripts. and since this sounds more complex than your average Matmatic script, it thought you might make this all compiled. or something more closed.

IES lights in poser just like that?

for the love of god will SM already give BB SSS.

this guys every week prooves what he can do. why is it so hard? why is it sooooooooooooooooooooooooo hard?

: - )

where can we download poser IES shader?

thanks

There is none yet ice-boy. It's not ready. You must read...lol.

Laurie

IMHO poser should be redone, but not all at once too many ppl will see the change and say "It's too different. Why can't they leave well enough alone. P4 was good enough for me. I don't want to learn all this new stuff."

They should do it in increments starting with the material room(see what bb said), then the pose room (lights, cameras etc) then the hair room(more control over styling strands), the face room(no one seems to be able to use it), the setup room (how I couldn't tell you. I don't use it but other ppls comments seem to imply it's more difficult than it needs to be I could be wrong though). Each time updating the render engine as needed. Finally over hauling the render engine because I would imaging all this incremental updating would make it a mess.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

Quote - I now have IES lights working in Poser. This will work in any version since Poser 5. It's a matmatic script that reads an IES file and generates a Poser light shader with math nodes that implements what is in the file.

Just say something isn't possible in Poser, and I can't help but look into it.

I would have done it much quicker but it took me a long time to understand the IES spec. The script is actually only about 40 lines of code.

YES!!!!!!!
Here are two site and
http://www.metalumen.com/products/iesall?sub=70
http://www.colorkinetics.com/support/ies/
Type this into a Google search: ies light download
for more.

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

It will probably be till next week that I finish this. I'm having to do a lot of measurement of how Poser's spotlight works.

I'm taking advantage of the UV "mapping" of a light. The light cone is mapped onto a UV space, with U=.5, V=.5 in the center of the light cone, and the edge of the light cone at the edge of the UV space (0 to 1). Any point being rendered (lit) corresponds with some point on that UV map.

I'm having two problems.

The first trouble I'm having is that the UV distance to the center does not correspond exactly with the angle within the cone. The correspondence is a non-linear function. If it was linear, then halfway between center and edge would be half the cone angle. But it isn't.

I did a quick and dirty approximation just to verify the concept. But now I'm trying to get the exact function. Given r, the distance from the UV center to the point being rendered, what is the angle? I have built a goniometer in Poser so I can take a bunch of measurements but it is tedious work. Then I have to figure out what the function is.

The second problem is that spotlights are set up with a maximum cone angle of 160 degrees (giving a maximum deviation from center of 80 degrees). But some of the IES lights produce non-zero light between 80 and 90 degrees. In fact, some go all the way to 180 degrees. (They emit light up and down.) Such lights must be modeled as two spot lights in Poser. I'm not trying to tackle that yet. I'm just trying to get the angle UV mapping to go out to 180 or at least really close.

The strange thing is that as the cone is widened, the UV mapping changes non-linearly. I.e. if the UV radius r = .09 matches 45 degrees with a 160 degree spot cone, it should be expected that it would not change by a lot with a 170 degree spot cone. It should be something like .09 * 160/170 which is not a big change. But it does by a lot.

I suspect there is a 1/sin(theta) term in the equation somewhere. As the deviation angle theta approaches 90 degrees, 1/sin(theta) goes to infinity.

If the UV mapping of the light was public knowledge, I would not have to do all this experimenting.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

I don't know that the interface itself needs to be rebuilt from scratch as much as some of the features could be optimized:

Another render option besides Firefly for realistic renders would be great
Having animation be a different room from the pose room
A means to more easily add dynamics to conforming clothing
Soft body physics on figures
A light studio room

And I agree with BB about getting some real SSS

Quote -
The second problem is that spotlights are set up with a maximum cone angle of 160 degrees (giving a maximum deviation from center of 80 degrees). But some of the IES lights produce non-zero light between 80 and 90 degrees. In fact, some go all the way to 180 degrees. (They emit light up and down.) Such lights must be modeled as two spot lights in Poser. I'm not trying to tackle that yet. I'm just trying to get the angle UV mapping to go out to 180 or at least really close.

As someone who doesn't really know anything about this, why not use a point light in cases above 160 degrees?

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Because point lights are not UV mapped, which means the shader has no angular data at all. It would have to compute that, which I can do, but it requires that every time you move the light, you type in its new coordinates into the shader.

If there was a LightPosition node, this would not be a problem.

But then you have an additional problem - you can't rotate a point light. So if a directional light is implemented as a point light pretending to be a directional light, you have a hard time controlling it. You'd have to enter rotation parameters into the shader to change its orientation. This would be very tedious. Entering coordinates every time you move it, and rotations every time you want to re-orient it. That's possible but not usable.

On the other hand, a pair of spotlights, with one parented to the other, would work great.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

BB, have you played any with Carrara? One of the things I like about Carrara lighting is that the various types of lights can be placed in the scene as objects. It makes it easier to work with rather than rotating a light around a globe. That might be a fix for your light position and angular controls.

except.. he's trying to get something working in poser....?

I don't know what you mean, about "rather than rotating a light around a globe".

In Poser, I grab spotlights just like objects and I move them with the mouse. I don't use the light globe at all except for infinite lights.

And I don't have Carrara. Or any other non-free 3D app.

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I use the Top View (Ctrl-T) and Front View (Ctrl-F) a lot to position spot and point lights. Then I usually point them at something. If not something in the scene, then I add a dummy object just as a target, which I hide during renders. I then am only dealing with stuff I can grab. No dials, no numbers.

I don't have the slightest problem with using Poser's UI to position and orient lights. I have a problem with having to manually enter numbers every time I do those things. I want to find an IES light solution that does not require any more than the usual way of working with lights.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

I'm just asking since the topic of the thread is how poser could be rebuilt. It was just an idea to serve for comparison...

Okay bill, I get what you are saying about using two spotlights. I'm assuming you should line them up perpendicular to the camera.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

For most architectural lighting, yes you'd point one up and one down. But there are other scenarios. I don't really know what they are. I'm just beginning to learn about architectural lighting.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Quote - Poser needs to be especially to run correctly in a 64-bit environment instead of patches of 64-bit codes into an out dated 32-bit core program. But, it will not happen if is so it will be done over a period of time within releases as LaurieA said this way it doesn't scare anyone off.

Are there any specific issues that you're running into with the current 64-bit version of Poser Pro 2010?

I'm actually pretty happy with current Poser 8 SR3 except for those really irritating IDL contact/occlusion shadow blotches. I do wish you'd added a "Run at lower priority" internal option but that's a pretty small thing. Overall I'd say Poser 8/Pro 2010 is the biggest leap forward since maybe when you whent to the Firefly engine in the first place. Memory management wise I don't really have any complaints and I'm a 64-bit user, I'd have to go very far out of my way to try to make it blow up memory-wise. Never happens in normal use (normal for me anyway), actually never have had an out of memory type failure since Poser 6.

I like Poser 8. So far, the only problem I'm having with SR3 are splotches with IDL rendering if I use lights with inverse square falloff. BB has already instructed me how to make Poser run at a lower priority (which actually increased my render speed slightly...go figure), so that really isn't a big deal as pjz99 said. I think that lighting problem needs fixed, but it does not ruin my whole experience ;o). I really like the IDL.

Laurie

Yeah for the price especially, there's a ton of value in the current version compared to pretty much any other 3D suite out there with the exception of modeling and texturing, and that's generic enough that I don't think it would be all that beneficial to try to integrate something like that. There are better renderers of course, but generally their price is much higher and of course there's the immense body of Poser-specific content already available.

What really cripples Poser is the old spherical falloff rigging system that all that legacy content is already set up in, and good luck growing out of that.

Quote - I'm actually pretty happy with current Poser 8 SR3 except for those really irritating IDL contact/occlusion shadow blotches. I do wish you'd added a "Run at lower priority" internal option but that's a pretty small thing. Overall I'd say Poser 8/Pro 2010 is the biggest leap forward since maybe when you whent to the Firefly engine in the first place. Memory management wise I don't really have any complaints and I'm a 64-bit user, I'd have to go very far out of my way to try to make it blow up memory-wise. Never happens in normal use (normal for me anyway), actually never have had an out of memory type failure since Poser 6.

I may be mistaken but dont you have a Cinema4D license??

Yes, yes I do, and in fact I use it heavily nearly every day - and it cost about two thousand dollars. Poser 8 cost me less than ten percent of that. For the price, Poser is a pretty great app.

Understood,I
was just curious why one with Cinema4D would even bother with poser render/IDL/blotchiness issues
but whatever works for you.

Cheers

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

No, they shouldn't. Poser was great until they started messing with it and allow it to depend on external non-related applications. If that is what rebuilding seems to be (and it looks like it) then I say, no.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

It is the ability to depend on 3rd party apps that allows choice in those apps. Witness the new library options from 3rd parties, all of which can be first-class library apps, through the web services API. They can be written in any language.

Component based modularity is a winner. The opinions you express are legitimate (in the sense that there are real reasons for them) but I'm not convinced, swayed, or influenced by that particular opinion, and neither is SM. You might as well stop saying it at nearly every opportunity.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

No comment :-) A question was asked, I answered, i do think I'm allowed to do so.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Quote - Understood,I
was just curious why one with Cinema4D would even bother with poser render/IDL/blotchiness issues
but whatever works for you.

If I'm trying to sell Poser content, I'd be kind of a jerk to market it with renders done in Cinema - with my promo stuff, I can give any Poser user my scene file and if they hit render, they will get exactly the image that is shown in the promotional pics. So it behooves me to max out Poser as much as I can.

edit: maybe I'm in a minority here with promo pics for poser content, but y'know, misrepresentative promo pics really bug the shit out of me.

Quote -
If I'm trying to sell Poser content, I'd be kind of a jerk to market it with renders done in Cinema - with my promo stuff,

Well IMHO it would only be a deception to sell Lightsets /environments for poser
but use renders from C4D or MODO etc.

Daz uses lightwave renders in some of their promos but place a big disclaimer stating such.

I have found the poser renders tend to HIDE flaws in poser products that become clearly manifest in Vray ,AR3 or MODO,
and I am Certain DAZ user are in for quite
a shock when they start rendering their favorite canned DAZ /poser optimized content in a physically Correct high detail Engine.
but that's another thread.

Cheers

In the larger world that's called "bait and switch". If the vendor can't get a given item to look good without postwork in the native app it's going to be used in, then it's dishonest to sell it with those kind of tricks employed.

Quote - I have found the poser renders tend to HIDE flaws in poser products that become clearly manifest in Vray ,AR3 or MODO...

Importing Poser content into different apps for rendering has its own set of problems anyway, especially when magnets come into play (anything rigged for V4 for example). Some of the flaws that appear in other apps are purely due to that, and not particularly the fault of the content. The thigh bend on V4 for example will never work right in any non-Poser/D|S render app (not that it's exactly perfect even in Poser) unless you export point-level animation, because it's done with magnets. Maybe there are a couple of apps that make use of the Poser SDK, but interPoser Pro doesn't, and it doesn't do Poser magnets at all. Also materials will never be converted 1:1, anything more than the minimum material information is discarded - that's not anything unique to Poser either.