Hello everyone, hopefully after reading this, you don't think Im a complete nut-job!

My father, for many years has studied and researched facts behind religion, artifacts, writings, things like that. His studied took him to the first recorded advanced human civilisation, the Sumarians.

I would say as much as 80% of people do not know this, but the bible is actually a translation (and heavy interpritation) of the original sumarian texts, primarily the 7 Tablets of Creation, which speak of how the heaven and the earth is created, The Flood Tablet, which speaks of a flood that would wipe out all sumarians, was it not for a god instructing the construction of a great ark to store the animals and the people in. The stories of Gilgames (a 2 parts god, 1 part man being) who was a great king (a real one, not a mythalogical one), and finally the Anki Narratives, Enki is the supreme god of Sumarian Mythology, he is the ruler of all the other gods, of which there are many.

sorry I got a little off track there, I of course ended up reading all these books, and debating with my father about this stuff for many years, and while I dont think I'm an expert on this stuff, I feel I have read enough that I know more than most.

What brought this thread up is of course the discovery of Planet X (originally called the 10th planet, until NASA reclassified pluto as a dwarf planet, reclassifying Planet X along with it). Planet X is a term coined up by astrologists to explain certain anomolies in the structure of our solar system. If you arent aware of this, Nasa discovered a new planet outside our solar system coming this way, its size is about that of pluto, but could be larger. Until it gets closer they wont know for sure. You can now see this planet here in Australia at sunrise just before the sun comes up, both Planet X, and its orbiting moon can be seen as bright "star" in the morning light, before the sun breaches the horizon and blinds you.
The strangest thing about Planet X, is its orbit, unlike all the other planets (and dwarf planet) their orbits are pretty much round, Planet X orbits like a comet, it comes in really close to the sun before shooting back out to the very far reaches of our solar disc (and beyond), before swinging back towards the sun again. This takes Planet X approximately 3600 years (NASA stated)

What does this have to do with the creation of life? To answer that, we need to look at the 7 Tablets of Creation, written by the sumarians around 6000 years ago. and to a lesser extent, the writings of the daily activities of Enki (Ruler of Gods) and Enlil (The First Son of Enki, Ruler of the Lesser Gods). We also need to look at the Mayan creation myth in the book of Popol Vu to find where the Gods came from, and there extremely precise cyclic long calander.

Now for me to both explain my interpritations, and also give the texts I based them off would take me days, rather I will tell you what I believe, and give you links to the freely avialable translations of these texts for you to read yourself.

The book of Popol Vu explains the deities that creates life/everything as The Creator, The Maker, Tepeu and Gucumatz, Followed by the three other deities (Caculhá Huracán, ChipiCaculhá and Raxa-Caculhá) known as the "Heart of Heaven".
This probably didnt jump out at you as it did to me when I first read it. Lets take a look at the Orion Constellation for a moment. Four outer stars, with 3 stars at the centre close together, Orions belt (Heart of Heaven). Thats right, the Orion Constellation and particularily Orion's Belt (the deities that make up the Heart of Heaven are the ones to give us life) is where the Gods live, Heaven.

Now we move to the Sumarian Texts. Here we are told that the Annunaki (the Gods) came from heaven, stopping at the 7th planet. Up until the reclassification of Planets, Including Pluto, Earth is the 7th planet from the outer edge of the solar system. First and foremost how did a 6000 year old civilisation know the structure of our solar system! along with the tablets of creation is a pictogram (image representing an event or story) containing an image of our sun, and its 10 planets (the standard 9 + planet x) arrayed around it. The sumarians knew the sun was the centre of the solar system, something we didnt re-figure out until 300 years ago.

How did they get from Orion to here, well it just happens that Planet X's outer portion of its orbit heads in the direction of both the Orion Constellation and the Capricornus Constellation. Could it be this planet went out just far enough for the Gods to reach from there planet? Nibiru is the Sumarian name for Planet X, and it is the planet which the gods came from to get to earth from heaven.

now to find out the why, there are two theories, one is based off information in the Bible, the origin of this information is not linked to any known ancient texts, and so can be dismissed as fantasy, but I will explain it anyway, followed by my own personal "non bible" theory.
The bible speaks of a time when Lucifer, God's honered protector of the throne felt the Sin of Pride and wanted for himself, what God had. Lucifer managed to convince many angels to join him in overthrowing god, but god cannot be overthrown. Lucifer and the fallen angels were banished from heaven to hell.
If you look at this with the knew explenation for God and Heaven, it takes on a whole new twist entirely.
Two main factions of the race known as the Annuunaki fought for control over there homeworld in the Orions Belt, Lucifer (Enki) lost, and was banished to the nearest solar system, ours. The only way to get to our solar system is via Nibiru, the 10th Planet and its extremely elongated orbit which brings it closer to them. 3600 years later, when Nibiru returns to our system, the Gods arrive.

There is no reason (vague or not) given in any of these texts as to why the gods came (much is lost or eroded), other than the above interpritation of the bible's addition to the Sumarian texts.
We can assume the Annuunaki are an advanced race, moreso than us. They too would have realised the near impossibilty of spanning the great distances between solar systems. They would have seen our system as the best chance to expand. a great undertaking is commenced to colonize the planet they call Niburu which leaves our system and covers a great amount of the distance on its own. The Annuunaki succeed, and 3600 years later, when Nibiru returns to our system, the Gods arrive.

There is a stark Good-vs-Evil to these two theories, and unfortunately the Evil one is thanks the bible.

Ok, so now what happened when they got here? They discovered that Niburu once had 2 moons, both mostly ice in construction, came through our system millions of years ago, passing extremely close to Tiamut (the name for Earth before it was made whole). One of the moons collided with Tiamut, destroying almost half the planet, creating our asteroid belt. Over the millenia the remainder of Tiamut and Nibiru's moon formed into Earth and the Moon.
This amazing chaotic event had created a highly rich habitable planet, life had occured thanks to the cataclysmic energies and materials combined in the collision. Taking there ships, they came and found pre-homosapien man, finding the shear amount of resources available on our planet, they realised they would need a work force to mine the minerals (Sumarians mined silver, gold and gems for there gods). Taking there own DNA and genetically "splicing" it with ours, they created 5 distinct genetically modified sapiens, each suited to the area they were to work and mine (Afrika, Americas, Oceana, Asia, Europe). Each race used base dna from different Annuunaki to ensure a good gene pool. This is why "races" among people are so heavily encoded in our dna (a Caucasian couple wont give birth to an afrikan child). But this was not the first time they tried this. There first attempts were destroyed due to there disobedience. One recorded instance is The Great Flood. the less common known fact about the writings on this flood is that it wiped out over 400,000 "Giants" Half human-half anuunaki demigods according to Sumarian texts (and the bible). Annuunaki (Gods) themselves are pictured and written as being giants by the Sumarians , The Babylonians, Greeks, Mayans and even in Christian imagery God is always giant in scale.

I could continue for a few more hours, but for now I will leave it there (I need a break!) when I come back I will provide more links

now before you call me crazy, remember that the bible, which is a story (so much more on this I could say) has very little fact to back it up, yet it is believed as true by millions.

English Translations of Sumarian Texts :
http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/edition2/etcslbycat.php

Zecharia Sitchins interpritation of the Sumarian Texts (leader in Cuniform language)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oa5r0nQ8ms

TemplarGFX
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I read a similar book called "Worlds in Collision" by Imanuel Velikovsky I think his name was.. Very interesting read..
Of course there are those that say ther end of the Mayan calendar in 2012 will herald the Gods return. If Planet X is on it's way back, it may arrive at around that time..
There is also a story doing the rounds that Mr Obama is about to announce the truth of Aliens and UFO's...
Watch this space...

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

How did people survive on Nibiru being so far away from the Sun?

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwysQiRaRgE&playnext=1&videos=qp_oyXUt5GQ

This Mayan Elder explains the end of the mayan calander for you

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Quote - How did people survive on Nibiru being so far away from the Sun?

Crossing the distance from any planet in the Orion Constellation to the furthest point of Niburu's orbit would be an amazing accomplishment, even sci-fi cant do it without breaking the laws of physics. Such a journey would then most likely have been multi-generational. aboard a highly advanced self sustaining craft. The same technology used to build such a vessel could be used to create sustainable habitats on a baren, but stable planetoid. Raw materials would be harvested from our solar system while its here to sustain the Nibiru colony.

in theory :p

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How did people survive on Nibiru being so far away from the Sun?

I believe if I remember correctly, that the planet in question has it's own self sustaining heat source from thermal energy within the planetary core..something like that..

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Its on the Internet so it must be true. However........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_collision

(This one from a few years back referring to the original Nancy Lieder prediction).
http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=106;t=000461;p=1

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/myth_of_nibiru_and_the_end_of_the_world_in_2012/

I'm sure that there is much that we still have yet to discover but it is usually wise to check the source of the information before going too far down a particular rabbit hole.

Velikovsky's work came years before Nancy's predictions [1950's], I think she probably read it and thought she could make a fast buck by inventing this story..
The Mayan calendar and it's predicted "end of our age" scenario is interesting, they seemed to have an understanding of astronomy far in advance of what you would expect for their time..

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

I wondered how long it would take for someone to bring up the stupid internet niburu doomsday prophecy. That is a complete hoax and not what I am basing my theory off.

Scientists put the creation of earth at about 20 - 40 million years ago. (link1)
According to the Sumarians, Niburu comes past every 3600 (the orbit time of Planet X designated Ellis by NASA), when the moon of Niburu collided with Tiamut, it was a baren rock, so it had cooled already.
That means that Niburu has passed through our solar system some 8300 times since the earth cooled, and only once did a moon collide with Tiamut, making it not only smaller, but removing a moon from Niburu further decreasing the chances something similar could happen again. The further THOUSANDS of passes show there is no doomsday, unless you think the Annuunaki are still on Niburu, and that they are evil :p

link1:http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/ita/05_2.shtml

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The Sumarian King List begins around 3000BC, If we ASSUME the Annuunaki can stay on earth for around 600 years before needing to leave to get back to Niburu, that would put the next passing of Niburu and a visit from the gods would be close enough to perhaps be the reason behind the birth of Christ, the son of God.

that is purely speculation

Forget for a moment anything you've heard regarding planet x, niburu, 2012 doomsday and all that and think about these two facts alone for a moment :

the sumarians say the planet there gods live on, Niburu passes through our solar system every 3600 years.
Nasa has found a Dwarf Planet, Designated Ellis, that travels along an extremely elongated orbit around our sun, that takes approximately 3600 years.

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Quote -
...Taking there own DNA and genetically "splicing" it with ours, they created 5 distinct genetically modified sapiens, each suited to the area they were to work and mine (Afrika, Americas, Oceana, Asia, Europe). Each race used base dna from different Annuunaki to ensure a good gene pool. This is why "races" among people are so heavily encoded in our dna (a Caucasian couple wont give birth to an afrikan child).

There are several sound scientific reasons why alien DNA wouldn't follow the same lines as ours. Molecule handedness is one of them.

Also, since it can be shown all "Races" of humans are actually derived from African origin (and yes, it is possible for Caucasian couples to give birth to a child of apparantly African parentage), the whole shebang is kinda dead in the water.

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Addendum...

If someone was really that good at gene splicing, surely they'd get rid of all the viral DNA, genetically carried diseases, most cancers and a good deal of the "junk genes".

In fact, the more I think about it, they'd probably eradicate cancer altogether by making our DNA more resistant to breakdown over prolonged periods.

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the theory that we evolved from a single homo-erectus species says that we went from Homo Erectus to highly varied Homo-Sapien in under 2 million years. The Diversity of the Canine species took 10 million years to get to today from thier single ancenstor. How did we evolve so monumentally fast?

To Sam, have we ever been so kind to our slave workers?

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Quote - the theory that we evolved from a single homo-erectus species says that we went from Homo Erectus to highly varied Homo-Sapien in under 2 million years. The Diversity of the Canine species took 10 million years to get to today from thier single ancenstor. How did we evolve so monumentally fast?

To Sam, have we ever been so kind to our slave workers?

There is a species of crab, native to Japan, some of which have shells with markings remarkably like a samurai. That tendency is now present in the majority of these crabs but only came about in a few hundred years.

There's a moth, native to the UK, which had black and white markings. The ones with primarily black markings became dominant during the industrial revolution, since they were harder to spot amongst all the soot - streaked buildings. Since then, with the advent of "clean air", the mainly white ones made a huge comeback. Again, all in a very short space of time.

My point is, give a species enough space to roam and they will find niches and begin to specialize. Dogs weren't left to their own devices; if anything, we may have slowed their diversity. Until recently, due to all the interest in pedigree and pet breeding.

As for us, there's no real need for any kind of diversity. Even the little we got is pretty useless by most standards.

Assuming a highly advanced civilization would need a slave population, I think it's reasonable they would tailor our DNA to be more disease resistant. Keep the slaves healthier for longer, get more work out of 'em. Perhaps our slave owning ancestors weren't bright enough to figure that one out but I'd put good money on an alien super species to think of it.

Another thing, why is chimp DNA so close to ours, and their blood DNA identical? Does that mean the aliens experimented on them, too?

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All life on earth is controlled by a border collie / labrador mix living with a haitian family in Cleveland.

They are unaware of his powers.

He licks himself. A lot.

He also likes ice cream, but not chocolate.

Any other questions?

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Quote - Addendum...

If someone was really that good at gene splicing, surely they'd get rid of all the viral DNA, genetically carried diseases, most cancers and a good deal of the "junk genes".

In fact, the more I think about it, they'd probably eradicate cancer altogether by making our DNA more resistant to breakdown over prolonged periods.

Sam - The very answers to your questions are hid in the holy books. "The Gods" were our overlords, and we were their slaves, essentially. They did not want us living long lives, and they did not want us adulterating our gene pool. We were to be kept docile, and worried about Death and dying because of our short life-spans.

Diseases were created and unleashed on us when we were disobediant, or becoming too numerous.

Did you know there are accounts from the black Plague where witnesses saw bright lights, orbs, and tall, dark figures with Rods going over crops and spraying them with something just before the plague broke out in that area?

Quote - > Quote - Diseases were created and unleashed on us when we were disobediant, or becoming too numerous.

*I saw this episode, but I thought Spock and Kirk interceded on behalf of the ignorant savages, and the overlords relented.

At least that's how I remember it.

I think the thrall with the tin foil bikini was in that one.

By the way, the dog's name is Ralphie, but he answers to Old Yeller.

He's not happy today, so watch out. Could be a tsunami or something.

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What I do find most interesting about this or any discussion like it, is that when people started to stop believing in the Bible, they still needed to come up with all kinds of explanations on the origin of life. Stop believing in the Bible and you end up with the weirdest things like aliens, evolution and such. Ah, well, everyone can believe what they want, that's the freedom we've been given :-)

Quote - now before you call me crazy, remember that the bible, which is a story (so much more on this I could say) has very little fact to back it up, yet it is believed as true by millions.

You may want to research that on the internet as well....... there are more then enough facts to back up the Bible.

Are we even allowed to discuss all of this? It's really way way way way off topic and I'm not sure what the TOS states about these kind of topics. I know that if you do this at DAZ, you'll get banned. I recall a bunch of us getting banned at DAZ for discussing something that had religious links. Was the only time ever I was banned from a forum.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

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Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Quote - All life on earth is controlled by a border collie / labrador mix...

Any other questions?

What is the dog's name, how can we best pay homage to her, and is it safe to pat her?

Quote - What is the dog's name, how can we best pay homage to her, and is it safe to pat her?

Ralphie, his name is Ralphie. You would think people would remember something as important as a deity's name. Sheesh.

As far as paying homage, Snausages seem to be his preferred form of gratitude.

You can pet him, but I would back off quickly if he shows his canines.

I'm just sayin' ...

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Due to overwhelming demand, here's a recent photo of Ralphie, surveying his domain.

Silence, humans, in the presence of your master !

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So you've got good basic mythos for a sci-fi series, start writing now, make some money have some fun, maybe make some Sumerian Tech clothes for Poser, before "they" come back!

Gosh, I really love this place, so informative.
We learn something new everday, don't we. :lol:
(YAY, I got in afore it got locked.)

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Ralphie don' t care much about the bible, he doesn't read very often.

Lacking opposable thumbs, he finds turning pages too dreary for words.

And for those wiseguys about to mention dewclaws, Ralphie says dewclaws ain't no thumbs - just try to flip a coin with one!

Uh oh, there goes Ralphie. I'm afraid the travails of humanity are all too easily forgotten when a squirrel runs past.

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Great thread discussion until someone decides they need to derail it with goofball nonsense.

Dr. Geep, Ralphie is considering a change in venue - Cleveland is a bit boring since LeBron left.

He is considering Feenix, but he worries that the hot sand would scorch his paws.

Are dogs comfortable in your neck of the woods?

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Quote - Great thread discussion until someone decides they need to derail it with goofball nonsense.

Yes, it was all factual up until then.

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Hot?, Nah ...S'ok, we gots refrigeration ... some call it air conditioning, ha ha.

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cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

William...

The goofball nonsense began with post #1. ROFL

It never fails to suprise me that the lenghts people will go to prove that a faith based religeon has factual evidence to back it up.

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D

and here I thought this community was mature enough to discuss something relating to a newly found Dwarf Planet and its potential implications to life as we know it, I see I was wrong.
There are plenty of people who believe in the Annuunaki today, and according to history millions of people who did before us too. (sarcasm) but of course the WHOLE thing is goofball nonsense.... (/sarcasm)

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Quote - and here I thought this community was mature enough to discuss something relating to a newly found Dwarf Planet and its potential implications to life as we know it, I see I was wrong.
There are plenty of people who believe in the Annuunaki today, and according to history millions of people who did before us too. (sarcasm) but of course the WHOLE thing is goofball nonsense.... (/sarcasm)

The unfortunate thing about the world we live in today is that the majority is indoctrinated to such an extent that anything outside their sphere of indoctrination is generally mocked and discarded. This is how the major religeons have grown and taken such a foothold in society over the years.

It's all about tribalism mate, we all like to belong to something, and it is amazing the lengths people will go to to defend their tribe. Whether that be your Country, Family, Religeon, Football Team, it's all part of the same behavioural patterns. You can even see it between Rendo and DAZ, Poser or Daz Studios, the clearly biased arguments for and against.

Nowt wrong with it, it's just how we are as a species. I personally think that your theory is no more or less credible than that of any major religeon. The fact that many people believe it now, and have in the past doesn't make it true, but then it doesn't make it false either. It was an interesting read, though I think I may have lost my way 3/4 of the way in.

But then I am a more or less godless heathen :) and certainly a heretic according to just about everyone ;) so don't take my word for it.

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

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There are plenty of Christians and plenty of Moslems, too, but I doubt you'll get either group to agree that the other is right. A fairly large number of people also believed that the earth was flat and was created the "night preceding 23 October 4004 BC" (Bishop Usher) prior to 1492. The number of people who believe in an idea has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's true.

I would be happy to discuss the minor planets with you, but I'll pass on all the religious sub-text which I do consider to be nonsense. However, you seem disinterested in discussing it without those unsupportable ideas, so looks like this is a dead end.

No sarcasm anywhere in the above.

Fugazzi: Ain't workin' without a net fun? :)

Quote - Scientists put the creation of earth at about 20 - 40 million years ago.

Try 4 billion. Yes, with a "B". I don't know where you heard 20-40 million, but I have corns older than that... And in those 4 billion years (with a "B"), scientists are discovering that life has existed for as much at 3.4 billion of those 4 billion years.

Quote - "the theory that we evolved from a single homo-erectus species says that we went from Homo Erectus to highly varied Homo-Sapien in under 2 million years. The Diversity of the Canine species took 10 million years to get to today from thier single ancenstor. How did we evolve so monumentally fast?

Erm, mutations can and do happen with amazing speed at times. For instance, for a major human mutation (such as skin turning from black to white) can take as little as 20,000 years or less - a mere second in geological terms. Some germs and microbes can manage a major mutation in mere weeks.

The simple fact is that human beings have very vivid imaginations and we, being a very inquisitive animal, feel an overwhelming urge to explain everything around us, even if that means making something up to tell around the campfire. Just because something was written on an ancient clay tablet, while interesting, does not make it true. I can go outside right now and chisel "The sky is red" on a piece of stone and 5,000 years from now - if someone can interpret it - do you think they'll really be asking "I wonder why the sky was red?" More than likely, they'll be thinking I was drinking or smoking something interesting or telling a good story. And when PhilC said "it's on the internet, therefore it must be true" is no less ridiculous then "it's on an 8,000 year old clay tablet, therefore it must be true".

I will concede that life came from somewhere else in so far as perhaps the building blocks of life - the amino acids and enzymes, water, etc. - were more than likely carried here on another rock that hit the planet way back when. Perhaps even on a chunk of another planet blasted away by a comet or asteroid where microbial life had just begun forming. Other than that tho...

Laurie

Quote - ...

Did you know there are accounts from the black Plague where witnesses saw bright lights, orbs, and tall, dark figures with Rods going over crops and spraying them with something just before the plague broke out in that area?

Ever heard of ergot poisoning?

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Laurie:

Ralphie says you're spot on, it's actually 4.003 billion years.

He also thinks you're cute, but then he's a sucker for a girl on a beach.

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To revise my previous post, just had a look at some Sumerian art, that stuffs been done to death, guess I won't be changing my name to Roddenberry then :)

Quote - and here I thought this community was mature enough to discuss something relating to a newly found Dwarf Planet and its potential implications to life as we know it, I see I was wrong.
There are plenty of people who believe in the Annuunaki today, and according to history millions of people who did before us too. (sarcasm) but of course the WHOLE thing is goofball nonsense.... (/sarcasm)

I believe I am mature enough. As far as I know, I'm responding to your posts in a rational, non sarcastic manner. Just because I don't believe in the particular interpretation you have been reading doesn't mean I'm incapable of rational and reasonable debate.

To the best of my knowledge, Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on making up crazy stories. It's a tradition that came along as soon as we could communicate beyond "eat, shit, sleep, fuck, fight, die", and which survives to this day. In fact, there are several studies and some very interesting (and entertaining) research into animal communication which suggests they may have a much more sophisticated language set than we believed. It seems even birds have a sense of humour.

Humour appears to be linked to several higher cognitive functions and closely linkedis to the ability to lie, or at least stretch the truth creatively. IMO, the same applies to most fiction, even if it ain't funny.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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Quote - > Quote - ...

Did you know there are accounts from the black Plague where witnesses saw bright lights, orbs, and tall, dark figures with Rods going over crops and spraying them with something just before the plague broke out in that area?

Ever heard of ergot poisoning?

You know, I was thinking of exactly the same thing? LMAO

They be trippin' ;o)

Laurie

Sam, it was not to you I was talking to at all there, or LaurieA.

What are your personal opinions on Eris?

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Quote - What are your personal opinions on Eris?

It's a very large Kuiper Belt object, like Pluto ;o). Also was the name of a Greek goddess - another fascinating story - but we won't go there...lol.

Laurie

Quote - It never fails to suprise me that the lenghts people will go to prove that a faith based religeon has factual evidence to back it up.

Ah dat religion stuff agin ... ha ha

Didja no wher da werd re-lig-ion com frum ...
Here it are fer yer edificashun, ha ha

"re" - the prefix means to REturn or go back, e.g., return, refund, remake, recreation, etc.

"lig" - the root (latiin) means to tie or bind, e.g., ligature, ligaments, etc.

"ion" - the suffix is used to change a noun to a verb and vice-versa, e.g., act - action, etc.

Ah jus thinked ya mite lik ta no dat so here it are fer yuze so put a biggie smil here

... so da werd religion mean da act of returning to da bondage.
um, witch wun is yuze bound to, huh, huh, huh, ha ha?

an Ah are stil in luv wif dat Lauriegurl, YEAH

Note to those concerned by the possibility of a close approach by Eris:

From Wikipedia:

Eris has an orbital period of 557 years, and as of 2009 lies at 96.7 astronomical units from the Sun,[11] almost its maximum possible distance. (Its aphelion is 97.5 AU.) Eris came to perihelion between 1698[5] and 1699,[34] to aphelion around 1977,[34] and will return to perihelion around 2256[34] to 2258.[35] Eris and its moon are currently the most distant known objects in the Solar System apart from long-period comets and space probes.[36]

Quote :...What brought this thread up is of course the discovery of Planet X (originally called the 10th planet, until NASA reclassified pluto as a dwarf planet, reclassifying Planet X along with it). Planet X is a term coined up by astrologists to explain certain anomolies in the structure of our solar system. If you arent aware of this, Nasa discovered a new planet outside our solar system coming this way, its size is about that of pluto, but could be larger. Until it gets closer they wont know for sure. You can now see this planet here in Australia at sunrise just before the sun comes up, both Planet X, and its orbiting moon can be seen as bright "star" in the morning light, before the sun breaches the horizon and blinds you.
The strangest thing about Planet X, is its orbit, unlike all the other planets (and dwarf planet) their orbits are pretty much round, Planet X orbits like a comet, it comes in really close to the sun before shooting back out to the very far reaches of our solar disc (and beyond), before swinging back towards the sun again. This takes Planet X approximately 3600 years (NASA stated)... Quote end. It is said Nasa stated .Let's look what Nasa sais here : http://astrobiology.nasa.gov/ask-an-astrobiologist/question/?id=2759

temp - fair enough, mate.

I don't believe it's a rogue planet which will wipe us out. OTOH, there is a current theory which suggests the proto-Earth was slammed into by another celestial object, the two of which formed the current Earth, a good chunk of the moon and quite possibly the asteroids.

I have a feeling Eris will stay more or less put for the time being - entropy always wins - but will most likely have some serious discussions with Jupiter when it decides to move a bit closer.

IMO, it's just another BDO in a universe full of them.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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... and here : http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/29jul_planetx/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnpXcLGUTww&feature=related

This is what I can see in the morning now here in Australia. Its funny, reading NASA astranomers talking about the possibility of Niburu (or any new planet) being visible from earth like this was laughed at a few years ago.

Just to doubly make sure everyone understands that I am in no way talking about the "Niburu Doomsday Prophecy"

Jupiter lost a stripe last week too btw
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18889-jupiter-loses-a-stripe.html

alot of wierd things are starting to happen!

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It's STILL laughed at, at least in the astronomical circles I run in. I don't know what you're looking at, but it's not Eris (unless you've got a private telescope that puts Palomar to shame.) I've got a buddy with a $50,000+ 22 incl reflector with computer controlled tracking and aiming and he can't see any of these objects, including Pluto. Plus, due to the distances involved, there would be no angular momentum that you could discern without photographic comparison.

What makes you think what you're seeing is Eris?

Quote - It's STILL laughed at, at least in the astronomical circles I run in. I don't know what you're looking at, but it's not Eris (unless you've got a private telescope that puts Palomar to shame.) I've got a buddy with a $50,000+ 22 incl reflector with computer controlled tracking and aiming and he can't see any of these objects, including Pluto. Plus, due to the distances involved, there would be no angular momentum that you could discern without photographic comparison.

What makes you think what you're seeing is Eris?

I think what's being seen could more likely be the planet Mercury, but what do I know ;o). Mercury is also known as "The Morning Star".

Laurie

I don't know what the southern sky looks like.. well go to www.stellarium.org ,download stellarium.exe (it's free ,no registration ) and have a look what your australian sky should look like. after launch set your coordinates and here you go. Find out yourself. Is this Venus or something else ?

What strikes me: an unknown object at the sky as big as bright as the morning star (I think it's venus not mercury ;) ) and it is still quite on science blogs ? No top news in the medias ? Are they all asleep?

Ralphie wants to share this photo of him between his dad, Pluto and his daughter Eris.

Hey, hang on ...

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Sheeeeeeesh ... this thread is really going to the dogs. :lol:

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cheers,

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edited 10/5/2019

Quote - What strikes me: an unknown object at the sky as big as bright as the morning star (I think it's venus not mercury ;) ) and it is still quite on science blogs ? No top news in the medias ? Are they all asleep?

I stand corrected ;o). Mercury can be seen, but normally only in dawn's early light or in evening twilight. My experience of seeing Venus has only been in the evening, but I'm not an early riser either...lol. Most of the time we see Venus (at least in the Northern Hemisphere) is when it's near the moon and very bright. In fact, the brightest thing in the sky besides the moon itself. The OP mentioned seeing his objects in the morning and so Mercury clicked. Of course, it could very well be Venus too ;o).

Actually Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn can all be seen with the naked eye if you know where (or when) to look. Anything farther out than that besides a star is a gamble, unless you have a really powerful telescope ;o). Even Hubble can't get crystal clear images of the outer planets and it has no atmosphere in the way. To Hubble, Pluto looks like a white, blurry smudge.

Laurie

it has been in the papers, although not much, English tabloids of course had a field day, especially thanks to the recent giant mayan crop circles. gotta love tabloids.

I bet most of you never heard of Eris. There are semi-sane to down right nutty reasons as to why there is much official talk on this. for the more wild, look up "New World Order".

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Quote - it has been in the papers, although not much, English tabloids of course had a field day, especially thanks to the recent giant mayan crop circles. gotta love tabloids.

I bet most of you never heard of Eris. There are semi-sane to down right nutty reasons as to why there is much official talk on this. for the more wild, look up "New World Order".

This just gets better and better. :)

I must admit ,I never had . Thanks to you I now have . As you can see I was busy to get first hand infos about this . http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/planetlila/ ,which is Mike Brown's website

Quote - I must admit ,I never had . Thanks to you I now have . As you can see I was busy to get first hand infos about this . http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/planetlila/ ,which is Mike Brown's website

Now, now...don't go clouding things with facts...lol.

Laurie

Quote - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnpXcLGUTww&feature=related

This is what I can see in the morning now here in Australia. Its funny, reading NASA astranomers talking about the possibility of Niburu (or any new planet) being visible from earth like this was laughed at a few years ago.

Just to doubly make sure everyone understands that I am in no way talking about the "Niburu Doomsday Prophecy"

Jupiter lost a stripe last week too btw
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18889-jupiter-loses-a-stripe.html

alot of wierd things are starting to happen!

Jupiter lost the stripe a bit more than a week ago, IIRC. Maybe 3 or 4 weeks, I think. Believed to be part of the chaotic nature of fluid dynamics present in the Jovian atmosphere. Or something.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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Yes, Sam, you are correct.

The brown belts on Jupiter have disappeared and reappeared many times in the past. The brown belts are cloud layers lower than the white ones. When the white belts spread out or re-configure they can obscure the darker ones for a time. There is no documented "cycle" to it, but it is by no means a unique event.

Nothing weirder happens now than has happened in all the years up to now. The only reason it seems so is because of all the doomsday talk. Now, every little thing that would have previously been either ignored or shrugged off as really unimportant is now considered to have some kind of hidden or mystic meaning. Nothing's changed, except for those that are convinced that some far off people in some far off time with no technology, no telescopes and no scientific anything got it all right. Pardon my French, but that's horsehockey.

Laurie

LaurieA: Amen!

Of course, I know the Devil's going to get me for the fun I've had today, but... hey... I have SO MUCH trouble ignoring rain barrels full of fish!

Sorry for OT @ LaurieA :(lol about your signatur)So I certainly would , if he ensures me that it's all homöopathie . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1B2aFElfjE be strong for this .

Don't worry, basicwiz, you are on Ralphie's list. When the time comes, you will be taken aboard the giant fire hydrant behind Hale Bop and transported to the great dog park in the sky.

I could have that wrong, but Ralphie does wag his tail violently when your name is mentioned.

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you've all got it wrong.

we're all descended from the mould in the coffee cup I left in the sink 5 billion years ago.

Attached Link: Ninurta's Exploits

Attached is a link to (in my opinion) the single most astounding peice of sumarian text.

Heres only a small portion (? marks are words that's translation are not 100% be it from erosion, missing pieces of tablet etc, and are therefore best guess. see the website for full details) :

The lord arose, touching the sky; Ninurta went to battle, with one step (?) he covered a league, he was an alarming storm, and rode on the eight winds towards the rebel lands. His arms grasped the lance. The mace snarled at the mountains, the club began to devour all the enemy. He fitted the evil wind and the sirocco on a pole (?), he placed the quiver on its hook (?). An enormous hurricane, irresistible, went before the hero, stirred up the dust, caused the dust to settle, levelled high and low, filled the holes. It caused a rain of coals and flaming fires; the fire consumed men. It overturned tall trees by their trunks, reducing the forests to heaps, Earth put her hands on her heart and cried harrowingly; the Tigris was muddied, disturbed, cloudy, stirred up. He hurried to battle on the boat Ma-kar-nunta-ea; the people there did not know where to turn, they bumped into (?) the walls. The birds there tried to lift their heads to fly away, but their wings trailed on the ground. The storm flooded out the fish there in the subterranean waters, their mouths snapped at the air. It reduced the animals of the open country to firewood, roasting them like locusts. It was a deluge rising and disastrously ruining the mountains.

The hero Ninurta led the march through the rebel lands. He killed their messengers in the mountains, he crushed (?) their cities, he smote their cowherds over the head like fluttering butterflies, he tied together their hands with hirin grass, so that they dashed their heads against walls. The lights of the mountains did not gleam in the distance any longer. People gasped for breath (?); those people were ill, they hugged themselves, they cursed the Earth, they considered the day of the Asag's birth a day of disaster. The lord caused bilious poison to run over the rebel lands. As he went the gall followed, anger filled his heart, and he rose like a river in spate and engulfed all the enemies. In his heart he beamed at his lion-headed weapon, as it flew up like a bird, trampling the mountains for him. It raised itself on its wings to take away prisoner the disobedient, it spun around the horizon of heaven to find out what was happening. Someone from afar came to meet it, brought news for the tireless one, the one who never rests, whose wings bear the deluge, the Šar-ur. What did it gather there …… for Lord Ninurta? It reported the deliberations of the mountains, it explained their intentions to Lord Ninurta, it outlined (?) what people were saying about the Asag.

how would a human from 4000bc explain seeing a "god" board a craft and reign destruction on the ground with powerful weapons? could it sound like this?

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I can't get to the Daz forums this morning. Must be the atmospheric disturbances caused by the missing stripe. Damn that Jupiter! Now the universe is in flux.

Laurie

Back to the topic . This looks to me like a script for a big blockbuster movie that I really would looking foreward to. "The cronicles of Nibiru" starring Vin Diesel .

Quote - Back to the topic . This looks to me like a script for a big blockbuster movie that I really would looking foreward to. "The cronicles of Nibiru" starring Vin Diesel .

Well, if it's got Vin Diesel in it, it's gotta be good....cough.

Laurie

Is it time for me to quote from "Grimm's Fairy Tales?"

It is allways difficult to interpret ancient writings , when there are no detailed hints on the spirit of the time they accrued. I allways wonder what will be 5000 years ahead , when a future civilisation will find the star-wars movies (in case the making offs are missing). Will they know that it is just entertainment , will they consider it for real?

the Historical Documents!

we built this Ship by observing them.....

**BENEDICTION AND GREETINGS TO MY GROWING FLOCK** from **Ralphie**.

The only reason this thread remains unlocked is that I, Ralphie, have made a double secret deal with the admins. They have agreed to allow this communication to continue and I have deigned to visit the city of Nashville in the land of Tennessee and allow all of them to rub my belly.

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The rings ??? ...

When "they" disappear ... they are probably on-strike ... no?

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cheers,

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edited 10/5/2019

Quote - Scientists put the creation of earth at about 20 - 40 million years ago.

Then that makes the dinosaurs how old?

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Hail great Ralphie, scourge of rabbits, cruncher of bones, sniffer of things beyond the ken of us poor mortal beings.

wanted to mention that, whilst I didn't read all of the above, multicellular biological organisms
cannot survive interstellar travel, due to the fx of radiation, hence there have never been any
visitors here from another star system, nor will humans be able to visit other star systems.
any attempts on their part will be limited to robot vessels created at huge expense, but these will
fail, as their data-sending/receiving technology can't cope with interstellar distances. project SETI
is a good example of the latter.

For those thinking of movie rights keep in mind this story bears a striking resemblance to several movies and a tv series in which alien "gods" came to earth and enslaved the population and then left. the main difference is that they didn't travel by planet, but by stargates.

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", multicellular biological organisms cannot survive interstellar travel, due to the fx of radiation,"

other than that wonder invention... radiation shielding - now in Ceramics, Water and the wonder material, Lead! get yours today! Coming Soon - Magnetic Shielding! (seriously. they're working on it right now...)

Ralphie needs a nudity flag! He's showing his bits!

Quote - wanted to mention that, whilst I didn't read all of the above, multicellular biological organisms
cannot survive interstellar travel, due to the fx of radiation, hence there have never been any
visitors here from another star system, nor will humans be able to visit other star systems.
any attempts on their part will be limited to robot vessels created at huge expense, but these will
fail, as their data-sending/receiving technology can't cope with interstellar distances. project SETI
is a good example of the latter.

As far as I know, only single celled organisms can survive the vacuum of space. As far as spaceships, well, while we can send probes thru the solar system, a spaceship that would hold human inhabitants is another matter. Unless there's a law of physics that's yet to be discovered (which is possible), any speeds we might achieve wouldn't be enough to make even manned missions to other planets inside our own solar system feasible (not to mention safe). Interstellar travel? I just don't see it happening.

Laurie

Quote - ... multicellular biological organisms cannot survive interstellar travel...

But what if they used dilithium crystals to power a warp drive. Wouldn't they be able to arrive here before they left their own planet, thus avoiding most of the radiation, and not missing any episodes of Coronation Street?

Quote - Nothing's changed, except for those that are convinced that some far off people in some far off time with no technology, no telescopes and no scientific anything got it all right. Pardon my French, but that's horsehockey.

Laurie

Ah, but you see, they had technology, telescopes, and scientific anything. At least, pre-deluvial. Did you know there was a Nuclear War in India about 10000 years ago? (Maybe more, the stories are at least 10,000 years old.)

Laurie, with all due respect, it sounds like you're fairly convinced against something you really haven't examined to any detail, because you've already decided you don't believe it.

Oh, but I know about all these things. Heavily read about it, very interested, don't believe a word. While the East Indian writings are very provocative, there's really no way of proving any of it. And a sheet of glass under the sand can just as easily be made by an asteroid hit than by a nuclear blast. Seems the believers don't take that into consideration though. The Indian texts could just as easily have been describing a storm of meteors. What one can read into this stuff is as varied as the answers you get when you ask someone who makes the best pot roast. Of course Mom does. But that would be everyone's Mom and so you'll have a million different subjective views. I don't buy any ancient writings simply because we can't know the context in which they wrote it. We didn't live then, We weren't subject to the same way of life, the same daily experiences. And why do people think that ancient people were any less able to write fiction than we are today? Atlantis? Space aliens? Angels? Demons? I'm sorry, but we have more evidence of ghosts than we do that kinda stuff. And until they have more, I prefer to remain sceptical. Blissfully sceptical ;o). As far as I'm concerned, that stuff's all in the same category as The Tooth Fairy and Santa Clause.

Laurie

So, basically, you've decided that the "Establishent" is to be trusted at all times, and anything contrary to establishment MUST be accepted by them, announced, and embraced before it will bust a chink in the armor of your status-quo?

This has, historically, proven to be a most unrewarding position.

The ancient alien/ancient tech stuff has an abundance of stuff to back it up, it just happens to be coming from the field of mavericks who would basically put establishment types out of jobs or looking pretty silly.

But never mind, it's all so ancient, best just to believe whatever they tell you to.

On the contrary...I don't believe anything unless there's evidence to back it up. And I certainly don't believe the establishment. How much disinformation has been created all for the sake of governmental control? Something tells me past kings, rulers, etc. knew ALL about that. Some of these tales may even be the product of some despot's propaganda. We'll never know. Has to be some way of keeping the people in line. And in a superstitious society, I can't think of a better way than a scary story. Just look at how it worked for the Christians. ;o)

Laurie

I once had a weird experience : Someone blamed me to "rationalize". He blamed me with so much rage in his voice for considering things reasonable.I guess this discussion won't end up friendly . Believers vs Nonbelievers .

Quote - > Quote - Nothing's changed, except for those that are convinced that some far off people in some far off time with no technology, no telescopes and no scientific anything got it all right. Pardon my French, but that's horsehockey.

Laurie

Ah, but you see, they had technology, telescopes, and scientific anything. At least, pre-deluvial. Did you know there was a Nuclear War in India about 10000 years ago? (Maybe more, the stories are at least 10,000 years old.)

Laurie, with all due respect, it sounds like you're fairly convinced against something you really haven't examined to any detail, because you've already decided you don't believe it.

Oppenheimer himself believed that the atomic bomb was invented before but in an early time in human history. This is just my opinion but I feel it very ignorant and somewhat full of ourselves to believe we are the only "intelligent", and I use this term loosely, life forms in the entire universe.

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Quote - On the contrary...I don't believe anything unless there's evidence to back it up. And I certainly don't believe the establishment. How much disinformation has been created all for the sake of governmental control? Something tells me past kings, rulers, etc. knew ALL about that. Some of these tales may even be the product of some despot's propaganda. We'll never know. Has to be some way of keeping the people in line. And in a superstitious society, I can't think of a better way than a scary story. Just look at how it worked for the Christians. ;o)

Laurie

Actually you bring up a very good point past kings and those in authority often used propaganda, diversions and the like to control the masses it's actually the oldest trick in the book outside of mass imprisonments or using military rule. I like you don't buy into a lot of what I read and hear. But just like statistics so called evidence can also be bent to an agenda.

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Whilst I believe in Ralphie, I'm not dogmatic about it. I think we should respect the views of those who believe in other dogs.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Nothing's changed, except for those that are convinced that some far off people in some far off time with no technology, no telescopes and no scientific anything got it all right. Pardon my French, but that's horsehockey.

Laurie

Ah, but you see, they had technology, telescopes, and scientific anything. At least, pre-deluvial. Did you know there was a Nuclear War in India about 10000 years ago? (Maybe more, the stories are at least 10,000 years old.)

Laurie, with all due respect, it sounds like you're fairly convinced against something you really haven't examined to any detail, because you've already decided you don't believe it.

Oppenheimer himself believed that the atomic bomb was invented before but in an early time in human history. This is just my opinion but I feel it very ignorant and somewhat full of ourselves to believe we are the only "intelligent", and I use this term loosely, life forms in the entire universe.

And I never said I didn't believe that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. I don't believe we are the only life, intelligent or not. I don't think in an entire universe that the Earth is all that special. But flying between such vast distances for obscure reasons is another matter entirely.

Supposedly, the "aliens" who visited the Sumarians were here to mine gold. If they were intelligent enough to fly thru interstellar space, why did they need primitive man wielding copper or stone picks and axes? Think about it.

Laurie

ibl

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Nothing's changed, except for those that are convinced that some far off people in some far off time with no technology, no telescopes and no scientific anything got it all right. Pardon my French, but that's horsehockey.

Laurie

Ah, but you see, they had technology, telescopes, and scientific anything. At least, pre-deluvial. Did you know there was a Nuclear War in India about 10000 years ago? (Maybe more, the stories are at least 10,000 years old.)

Laurie, with all due respect, it sounds like you're fairly convinced against something you really haven't examined to any detail, because you've already decided you don't believe it.

Oppenheimer himself believed that the atomic bomb was invented before but in an early time in human history. This is just my opinion but I feel it very ignorant and somewhat full of ourselves to believe we are the only "intelligent", and I use this term loosely, life forms in the entire universe.

And I never said I didn't believe that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. I don't believe we are the only life, intelligent or not. I don't think in an entire universe that the Earth is all that special. But flying between such vast distances for obscure reasons is another matter entirely.

Supposedly, the "aliens" who visited the Sumarians were here to mine gold. If they were intelligent enough to fly thru interstellar space, why did they need primitive man wielding copper or stone picks and axes? Think about it.

Laurie

I've always looked at this way if these beings were so intelligent why would they take the time out of their busy planet hopping schedule to even consider rubbing elbows with a self destructive, warlike race like ourselves? How long have we inhabited this planet??? And we still can't live together and still destroy the very ecosystem we need to survive.

Maybe at one time they saw something in us that may have been worthy of their technology? But we blew it now they fly in and check up on us to see how close we are to spreading our destructive nature to other parts of the universe.

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intelligent life? I've traveled this world for years and have yet to come across it, so it shouldn't be too hard to find it on some other planet :-)

Great thread..... I love the way people on the one hand denounce any faith in whatever god and yet without questioning believe science. I'm not sure which needs more faith

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Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Heheh...I definitely don't believe science without question either ;o). Where humans are involved, anything's fallible.

Laurie

A basic methode in science is to be sceptical . New findings come up every week and they somtimes replace the olders. I have never heard of any of those esotheric theories that are reversed by their deciples.

... so "don't believe science without question" is ok .

What the Sumerians weren't told, most likely, is that these "Gods" were actually outcasts banished to this hole. It is very possible that their tech was limited to survival. With the know-how, however, to re-build their societies and cultures on Earth, they went to it from the ground up for the most part.

Further, I think most accounts have their "Tech" fully integrated with Occult scienes we low-level peons are completely ignorant of. A lot of their tech might not have even looked like tech to us.

PEOPLE, PEOPLE ... CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG ?????

Even the stupid squirrels, gathering up their nuts, have a place at the glorious table set by Ralphie.

I will chase them up a tree if I catch them in my yard, mind you.

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@templargfx - I haven't read the rest of this thread in any great detail but if you're seriously into this sort of thing, you may be interested in a book called "Man and the Stars" by Duncan Lunan. He was a Brit counterpart to Carl Sagan and there's a section in the above named book which seems to form the basis for Sagan's "Contact".

Interesting and entertaining reading, whether or not you believe it.

@LaurieA - humans seem to be wired for weird. Not necessarily a bad thing; I believe it's a hold over from our pre-sapient ancestry, mangled by our cerebral cortex. Evolution generally teaches a species that a wrong guess is better than a slow one. I cite cats as an example. Probably the most paranoid, borderline (and sometimes over the border) OCD species in the world.

Actually, that brings me back to temp's earlier post re dogs. Cats are one of the least diverse group of all animals. They found a very early niche to occupy. You could also say the same about sharks, alligators and - dare I mention them - certain birds. I believe any apex predator is effectively removed from the ecological pressures which drive evolution. And, just in case I wasn't entirely clear in my previous post about the subject, I meant to say our "diversity" is completely superficial. Like dogs. There is, however, a driving mechanism - not present in dogs - which I am certain is responsible for the changes in the human "races". I'll give you a clue. It starts with "X" and ends with "enophobia". Dogs will tend to fall in line with each other as long as their place in the pack is well defined. We don't. We are slightly less violent and territorial than chimps but not by much.

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pagan, why do scientists study undersea life or go to the amazon to find primitive, remote villages?

Even though I'm a creationist, I wouldn't be surprised if there is intelligent life out there. God is mysterious and he made a universe more rich and vast that could be adequtely explained in a chapter of Genesis.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Quote - intelligent life? I've traveled this world for years and have yet to come across it, so it shouldn't be too hard to find it on some other planet :-)

Great thread..... I love the way people on the one hand denounce any faith in whatever god and yet without questioning believe science. I'm not sure which needs more faith

A belief in science is not incompatible with a belief in a supreme being/ultimate creator/god or whatever you want to call it/him/her.

I have several very devout friends of various faiths, all working in scientific areas (biochemistry, astrophysics, genetics). Each tells me their belief is strengthened by what they know of the natural world and the universe.

That said, it's science which makes your computer work, not prayer.

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Human beings just feel the urge to have ultimate anwers .if they can't have one ,they tend to create their answers . It's the same as with Ralphie .You can't keep him from snooping.There are two ways to deal with the obscure : For example, it is said that the ancient Egyptian couldn't build pyramids with just 1000 people and some primitive tools. What do you believe ? A : They had extraterrestical Help . B: There must have been a lot more than 1ooo people , maybe 10 000. I would prefere B because A seems to be the least possible Answer for me.

it's likely a TOS violation to bash anybody's deities here. they useta do it in the OT forum to
such an extent that it was closed, and the participants moved to other sites. if einstein believed
in a deity, it may have prevented him from finishing his work. if he eventually decided
that his deity not only existed, but played dice with the universe, I can see why he gave up trying.

> Quote - I cite cats as an example. Probably the most paranoid, borderline (and sometimes over the border) OCD species in the world.

AMEN !

For someone constantly in therapy, you are quite wise, Sam.

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

I'm an empiricist. But according to the Dancing Wu Li Masters, [paraphrased] "when looking beyond the vastness of galactic superclusters or scrutinizing what motivates subatomic energies: science can only go so far to describe reality, at which point one can only go on faith."

Is it possible that science and faith are not absolutes, but rather compliments of each other?

Quote - Human beings just feel the urge to have ultimate anwers .if they can't have one ,they tend to create their answers . It's the same as with Ralphie .You can't keep him from snooping.There are two ways to deal with the obscure : For example, it is said that the ancient Egyptian couldn't build pyramids with just 1000 people and some primitive tools. What do you believe ? A : They had extraterrestical Help . B: There must have been a lot more than 1ooo people , maybe 10 000. I would prefere B because A seems to be the least possible Answer for me.

Hey, Occam, that's fine if both choices exist in a vacuum, but that's not what's going on here.

You have, on the one hand, Established Egyptologists who say the Pyramids are Tombs (wrong) built by slaves by rolling massive quarried stones on blocks (wrong.) These people are set in their ways, and are not interested in reshaping the so-called facts their whole "education" and "Career" is built on.

On the other hand, you have maverick up-and-comers who aren't afraid to examine the evidence that's been neatly tucked away in the "Inconvienient" file and come forward with new ways to look at the whole thing. For example, the re-dating of the Sphynx to 30,000 BC when it mirrored the night sky and had water erosion at the base. I'm sure you've heard?

Now, when the EGYPTIANS THEMSEVLES claimed that their Pharoahs are Gods who came from the heavens, when you have hieroglyphs of vaccum tubes, cords, double-helixes, and boats that flew into the sky...

Now which is easier to believe?

There is no reason not to believe what the Egyptians themselves say of their origins, other than the fact that you might find it disturbing to reevaluate your entire existence and your place in the universe.

That's the real problem here.

All this discourse about the old days got the old doggie memory synapses firing, and led me to dig through some of the ancient stuff in the back of my doghouse.

I came across this old picture from the 2204 BC Sumerian Olympics, and thought I would share it with you all. I was in first place in the high hurdles when the games were called due to a solar eclipse caused by a fly by of that pesky Niburu that chose day four of the games to come by and blot out the sun. Since the Egyptians, with their early nuclear generating stations and sophisticated urban lighting systems hadn't shown up on the scene yet, everything was plunged into darkness at midday.

Those barbaric and superstitious Sumerians dropped their scorecards and hightailed it to the golan heights.

By the time they came back down, the Annuunaki had broken into the temple and were drunk as skunks on honey mead. No one wanted to pick up the games where they left off, so I had to settle for an asterisk after my record.

You can look it up, if you can read cuneiform. In those days I was known as "Ralphsies II"

With divine love,

Ralphie

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

Quote - Hey, Occam, that's fine if both choices exist in a vacuum, but that's not what's going on here.

You have, on the one hand, Established Egyptologists who say the Pyramids are Tombs (wrong) built by slaves by rolling massive quarried stones on blocks (wrong.) These people are set in their ways, and are not interested in reshaping the so-called facts their whole "education" and "Career" is built on.

On the other hand, you have maverick up-and-comers who aren't afraid to examine the evidence that's been neatly tucked away in the "Inconvienient" file and come forward with new ways to look at the whole thing. For example, the re-dating of the Sphynx to 30,000 BC when it mirrored the night sky and had water erosion at the base. I'm sure you've heard?

Now, when the EGYPTIANS THEMSEVLES claimed that their Pharoahs are Gods who came from the heavens, when you have hieroglyphs of vaccum tubes, cords, double-helixes, and boats that flew into the sky...

Now which is easier to believe?

There is no reason not to believe what the Egyptians themselves say of their origins, other than the fact that you might find it disturbing to reevaluate your entire existence and your place in the universe.

That's the real problem here.

Can I just say something here? I'll try and be non-sarcastic, but I can't make any guarantees...

As for the Sphinx and water erosion...it's been well established for some time now that the Egypt and the Nile Delta was MUCH wetter and greener between 7,000 and 5,000 years ago. The Sphinx could very well have gotten water damage having been built 5,000 years ago as quite a few scientists suspect it was built near a harbor.

And where did you get the idea that the pyramids are not tombs and not built by men rolling blocks of stone when everything points to just that? Are ya saying that all the scientists are wrong and you're right? Presumptuous, isn't it? As for hieroglyphics: all Egyptian paintings are stylized. How can we know what the heck they were drawing? While it may be that some of the stuff looks like light bulbs and batteries, it's all so stylized how can ya tell? They painted pictures of people with bird's heads ffs. They had active imaginations. Just like people everywhere. Do you think people in the future will see an image you rendered of a Vicky in a skimpy outfit and think people actually went about wearing that kinda stuff?

I realize that people believe what they believe, but you have to understand how silly all that sounds to people who are prone to reason and logic. Does it surprise you that some of us thinks it's either stupid or just flat-out don't agree with you? We live in a time of reason (mostly). Stuff like this sounds more like campfire stories than something people take seriously.

And the argument that the Egyptians or the Sumerians said it was so and therefore it must be true? I guess you buy all the gods and goddesses of Greek mythology then. They said it was true too. If you go by that premise and believe because they said so, then you'd have to believe everything from every religion, every society and every story from the past. They said it's true.

One thing I will never doubt is a human's capacity for nincompoopery. I think the ancients had boatloads of it (they didn't know any better) and it;s even more pitiful that nowdays, when we know so much, that things like this still persist. However, you all may believe what you wish - it's your prerogative. But it's also mine to disagree ;o).

Oh and to answer your question above, it's easier for me to believe that men built the pyramids as a tomb rolling blocks of stone than to believe space aliens flew down and did it.

Sorry for the sarcasm ;o).

Laurie

Quote - A belief in science is not incompatible with a belief in a supreme being/ultimate creator/god or whatever you want to call it/him/her.

I have several very devout friends of various faiths, all working in scientific areas (biochemistry, astrophysics, genetics). Each tells me their belief is strengthened by what they know of the natural world and the universe.

I think it was Descartes who said there are two worlds we have to deal with, the objective, which is the realm of science, and the subjective, which is the spiritual/religious. But they aren't mutually exclusive and just because one exists means they other can't exist. I think it's quite the opposite, as you learn more about one, it reveals to you more about the other.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Sigh

Laurie, it's clear to me that you're just not steeped in the information that's out there, regardless of what you might think of yourself.

No body has ever been found inside a pyramid. Hieroglyphics found inside the Pyramid that made tomb-like claims were later found to be forgeries (after the textbooks on the subject were printed, of course). There is no evidence at all that a pyramid is a tomb, and if you don't know that, than we just shouldn't even be having a conversation.

You cite the overall moistness of the Sphynx 5000 years ago, but you fail to register the very particular astrological alignments that the whole complex is set up to mirror. I assume you believe that the face on the Sphynx is the original, because that was what you were told. There is strong evidence it is NOT the original face, however, but you won't read about that because it's not printed in a textbook at community college.

FYI, I'm not saying I'M right about anything, versus these so-called "Egyptologists". I'm saying there's other information out there, and a lot of it is stone-walled. There's vested interest in keeping this idea of Egypt the way it currently is, and if you don't know and understand that, we shouldn't even be having this conversation.

You throw around words like "Reason and Logic" like you've got a monopoly on the concept which I'm sure makes you feel good about yourself, but it illuminates nothing and shows exactly where you're at.

I do not make the argument that "Because the ancients said it, it must be true." Again, you're playing a sort-of shell-game with the information. Let me be perfectly clear: I'm saying that when you marry archeological anomolies with strangely paced Cultural advancement with the entire effing package, what the Ancients wrote down fits, and therefore it's something to consider and process, and not dismiss because it doesn't match the status-quo.

Since we're on Egypt, I believe that the area went through a restoration process after a regional catastrophe. The land of Egypt once belonged to Sumeria, which was nearly as vast as the Roman Empire before said catastrophe(s). These thrice-removed Demi-God descendants moved into Egypts ruins and began restoring them and taking credit. They lost the real meanings of their past, and everything became mystical, mythological and superstitious. Note that as time wore on, Pyramid building became worse and worse.

The Pyramids and the Sphynx are referenced in Sumerian Cunieform Tablets that reference time periods prior to 10,000 BC. We are told Sumeria is the first Civilization that we know of...so if The Pyramids weren't around yet, how did they know about them? Or did they make that up too? Another Myth?

Listen, believe whatever is popular and acceptable for you to believe, but in the future you needn't assume superiority when it is clear that you just don't know the basics of the arguments. Unless, of course, that's your thing.

Finally, I don't wander into threads about stuff I don't believe in and then belittle the people who are having a nice conversation...thus derailing said nice conversation. Why do you? What sort of person does that?

Admittedly, it's better than the silly dog nonsense. "I'm gonna make this thread about my inane sense of humor, thus ruining the thread!" Awesome. Really.

I was complaining to my wife the other day about how people who believe in "x" were so irritating because they are so smug about knowing the truth about "x". My wife, who is very wise, pointed out that we were probably just as smug as those people in our belief in "y". I had to agree with her. It's hard, if not impossible, to remain open-minded about everything. Eventually you gather enough information about a subject to form an opinion and eventually a belief. Once you become a true-believer, no amount of argument is likely to change your mind.

Besides "y" is totally true, and people who believe in "x" are nuts!

I think it's time to lock this thread.

To a sceptic, no proof is possible; to a believer, no proof is necessary. To coin a phrase.

Laurie

according to most religions, a great flood, or some type of flooding occured like 7000-10000 years ago. if this is an actual event, this could explain the water erosion on the Sphynx. Accoridng to Sumarian texts, they would have been wiped out due to the relatively flat land they were living in. say an asteroid smashed into the indian ocean, this would cause flooding for the entire region, including Egypt

TemplarGFX
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I haven't read this thread, but I can't believe that a thread that contains the topic "Bible" hasn't been locked due to bickering! There might be hope for all of us here yet!! :)

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Quote - I think it's time to lock this thread.

Oh, You've decided?

Just folk talkin, you feel the need to pull the plug? No chance we could just finish up in a natural, organic fashion? No parting thoughts?

I think we've found a new mod for the Poser Forum! I'll nominate, any seconds?

We need, desperately, to have the one guy who pops in on every interesting discussion to let us know that HE (Or SHE) thinks it's time to lock the thread. It's very helpful!

"Hey! These folk are havin' themselves a deep discussion! Oh NOES! I'z a scard!"

This really is the society we want to live in?

thanks for proving why it should be locked.

I really don't see this as a religious discussion. It's totally not about the merits of religion at all. Religion and Ancient Alien Theory are mutually exclusive, at least at this level of discussion. Atheists can rest easy contemplating the early "myths" of man were watered down accounts of Alien interaction with Human beings and Theists can contemplate how to best integrate the theory into their belief system. It's not easy, but it's doable.

Quote - thanks for proving why it should be locked.

No Problem at all. I'd certainly agree that it could be moved, but I find it EXTREMELY offensive that someone just waltzes in and decides for everyone, all high-and-mighty, that a thread should be locked. If you don't like the thread anymore, you can't just leave it alone? You've got to sit on the sidelines and be all decidey? Isn't that what the mods are for?

Quote - I really don't see this as a religious discussion. It's totally not about the merits of religion at all. Religion and Ancient Alien Theory are mutually exclusive, at least at this level of discussion. Atheists can rest easy contemplating the early "myths" of man were watered down accounts of Alien interaction with Human beings and Theists can contemplate how to best integrate the theory into their belief system. It's not easy, but it's doable.

fantastically said.

I am pleasantly suprised that (bar a few people) this discussion has become mature and intelligent, with alot of thoughts flowing.

TemplarGFX
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I apologize for having a differing opinion.

I'll return to my cage now, pulling ticks off my mate and throwing poo.

FWIW, I don't want the thread to be locked, but you folks have fun...lol.

Laurie

Thanks :) I've been stepped into these theores for about 20 years now, maybe more. It's something that was instinctual to me as a child, and then going forward the material coming forth. I was Mormon for a bit too, and some of their more esoteric beliefs involve divine beings on other planets.

Who is your Dad? Not Sitchin? Brammely? Von Danniken?

Quote - > Quote - thanks for proving why it should be locked.

No Problem at all. I'd certainly agree that it could be moved, but I find it EXTREMELY offensive that someone just waltzes in and decides for everyone, all high-and-mighty, that a thread should be locked. If you don't like the thread anymore, you can't just leave it alone? You've got to sit on the sidelines and be all decidey? Isn't that what the mods are for?

and your the one deciding who can post and what in a public thread and your not a mod.

see the logical problem there?

I'm trying to hint btw. how about back off, calm down and take a break before you get in trouble? your getting more and more aggressive. but hey. it's your life. you do what you want.

Quote - I apologize for having a differing opinion.

I'll return to my cage now, pulling ticks off my mate and throwing poo.

FWIW, I don't want the thread to be locked, but you folks have fun...lol.

Laurie

Differing Opinions are wonderful, when well informed. But it seems you've got about half a hand and it's just no fun whatsoever to have to point out 101 stuff.

Ok, one more....

I didn't realize I was stupid and uninformed. But thanks for clearing that up for me.

Laurie

just to agree with templar, catastrophic floods occurred at the ends of several ice ages,
possibly even the last ice age just prior to recorded human history. the geologic evidence
indicates these floods were due to glacier dams suddenly giving way, and they were far
worse than the usual floods occurring every week on this planet, hence it would not be
surprising if oral tradition carried on some human experience with any major flooding at
the end of the last ice age, as it would have been orders of magnitude worse than the
annual flooding of the nile and euphrates several thousand years ago.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - thanks for proving why it should be locked.

No Problem at all. I'd certainly agree that it could be moved, but I find it EXTREMELY offensive that someone just waltzes in and decides for everyone, all high-and-mighty, that a thread should be locked. If you don't like the thread anymore, you can't just leave it alone? You've got to sit on the sidelines and be all decidey? Isn't that what the mods are for?

and your the one deciding who can post and what in a public thread and your not a mod.

see the logical problem there?

I'm trying to hint btw. how about back off, calm down and take a break before you get in trouble? your getting more and more aggressive. but hey. it's your life. you do what you want.

It's the same pattern any time "alterna" discussions pop up. Well meaning, interested people open up a dialogue. Key notes are made, people ask questions...information is exhanged. That's the rub for a lot of people. It seems to be threatening. So, before long someone pops in a starts being all jokey-joke, someone pops in and denounces the whole thing as utterly ridiculous, and anyone believing any such nonsense must surely be mentally disabled.

So now you've got about six posts of real conversation, and then two pages of "Look at these idiots" and the super-mocking "my dog is an alien diety" disrupters and the 3 people who inevitably latch on.

Invariably, there's one or two real counter-point people that pop up through the din to have a discussion, but when and if their counterpoints are shown to be less-than-informed, someone (like me) gets pegged as the bully...usually by people who weren't even really involved in the back-and-forth. The Jokers and the "you're all morons" disrupters than gang up on the Bully. The triumphant points are lost in this din, go totally ignored, and not one person ever says "Hmmm, guess you've got a point there..." And typically the more final and conclusive the point is, the quicker the party-pooper shows up to suggest the thread be locked, lest someone actually learn something or rethink their position.

It happens every time, just like this. It's fascinating really, you can set your watch by it. I like to think of it as the "thread killing flowchart."

Quote - Ok, one more....

I didn't realize I was stupid and uninformed. But thanks for clearing that up for me.

Laurie

Nobody said stupid, your words, not mine. Uninformed? I suspect. If you can follow up any of the last points I made I might know for sure.

I'm really not trying to be antagonistic, but you whipped out "Nincompoops" and declared yourself the sole possesser of logic and intelligence well before things heated up.

I'd like to make it clear that outside of the boundaries of this discussion, you're aces in my book :) This discussion, to me, has absolutely no effect on any personal opinion I may have about you or anyone else in the thread. Any "Aggression" is strictly for the purposes of this discussion and at the end of the day, I could not possibly care less what anyone else believes about anything, at all, under the sun.

sighs no, I was trying to stop ppl from making mistakes and offending others. but you chose not to see that and take it as an attack. nothing more.

well, as I said, you do what you want to do. your the one reading from a script only you can see.

Quote - just to agree with templar, catastrophic floods occurred at the ends of several ice ages,
possibly even the last ice age just prior to recorded human history. the geologic evidence
indicates these floods were due to glacier dams suddenly giving way, and they were far
worse than the usual floods occurring every week on this planet, hence it would not be
surprising if oral tradition carried on some human experience with any major flooding at
the end of the last ice age, as it would have been orders of magnitude worse than the
annual flooding of the nile and euphrates several thousand years ago.

Yes, and even more specific, the Sumerians recorded that the (ahem) Gods had foreknowledge of this glacial slippage, attributing it to the passing of their Planet, Nibiru. Basically, a gravitational disruption caused by the passing puts the glaciers in a bad position, and they sort of sheet right off of the landmass and into the ocean. So, they saw this coming and then the ark and the rest of it.

I recently read that ancient gold mines were found in South Africa dating to about 30,000 BC. Another win for Sitchin...what on EARTH was anyone doing mining gold some 25,000 years before anyone even thought to build a city? Answer? Just what the Sumerians told us.

This discussion does not belong in this forum.
Move it to some other site.

Quote - sighs no, I was trying to stop ppl from making mistakes and offending others. but you chose not to see that and take it as an attack. nothing more.

well, as I said, you do what you want to do. your the one reading from a script only you can see.

Getting offended and making mistakes is all a part of the process, don't you think? Why are people so afraid of being offended? Does anyone really believe that a forum thread is going to de-rail a person's life if someone says something jarring? Are people really so fragile? And, a follow-up question....should we foster this fragility in people by putting the kiebosh on discussions of controversial topics?

Ultimately, the fragile soul has the ability to not return to a thread at any point in the process. It can be hard to put a good thread down, I know, but ultimately the responsibility is on the person who may be offended to remove themselves from the potentiality.

Quote - This discussion does not belong in this forum.
Move it to some other site.

It's labeled OT, which many posts in this forum are. Did you really have to click on it?

Quote - It's labeled OT, which many posts in this forum are. Did you really have to click on it?

It sets people up against each other and is similar to political or religious discussions.
Reason enough to close the thread

Quote - > Quote - Ok, one more....

I didn't realize I was stupid and uninformed. But thanks for clearing that up for me.

Laurie

Nobody said stupid, your words, not mine. Uninformed? I suspect. If you can follow up any of the last points I made I might know for sure.

I'm really not trying to be antagonistic, but you whipped out "Nincompoops" and declared yourself the sole possesser of logic and intelligence well before things heated up.

I'd like to make it clear that outside of the boundaries of this discussion, you're aces in my book :) This discussion, to me, has absolutely no effect on any personal opinion I may have about you or anyone else in the thread. Any "Aggression" is strictly for the purposes of this discussion and at the end of the day, I could not possibly care less what anyone else believes about anything, at all, under the sun.

I already know that the Great Pyramids at Giza line up perfectly with the three stars in Orions belt and that the shafts in said pyramids point to that area as well. They are beautifully constructed to a precision we can barely match today. That there is evidence there is a room or series of rooms beneath the Sphinx. That the Sumerian tale of Gilgamesh was most likely the basis for the story of Noah. That the Sumerians were a very advanced people, as were the Egyptians, the Mayans, the Tolteks, the Aztecs - who all had an amazing knowledge of astronomy, mathmatics and engineering. But bringing space aliens into it somehow lessens the real amazing accomplishments of these peoples - as if they were incapable of achieving what they did any other way than to have help. I just don't agree with that. Their brains were no less capable than yours or mine is today. In a way, they were perhaps smarter to have achieved what they did with the tools they had to work with.

Laurie

Define "Against" each other? Do Laurie and I have to dual with pistols at dawn? We can't argue points? We have to be "Against" each other?

Now..."Similar" to religious discussions. Again, thread is clearly labled for OT-ness and Subject. Each and every member of RO that looks at the Poser forum is free to totally disregard this thread. There is nothing on this Earth that forces a person who is uncomfortable or sensitive about this topic to open this thread up and expose themselves to whatever is inside, be it kittens or controversy.

Essentially, this means the thread IS closed for anyone who isn't into it.

Laurie, Good!

But there's one more thing that sort of ties it all together. The Sphynx itself is aligned in such a manner as to face the rising sun when the Sun is in Leo. The Sphynx was originally a Lion, representing Leo. (I think I'm missing a key detail here I've forgotten.)

Whatever the breakdown is, this alignment essentially dates the Sphynx which corresponds to the revised estimates from the water erosion. (Note, the erosion is Rain, not flood.)

Can only be from 25,000 to 15,000 BC, if memory serves. Nothing else makes sense geologically or astrologically.

A few clarifications for those new to this line of thought, and not dissuaded by the jokers thus far :

My theory, although similar to Sitchin's is not a progression of his story in my words, his work led me to the sumarian, mayan and babalonyan texts, from which I started building my own theory. Of course the belief in Aliens (that they must be out there somewhere) would sub-conciously effect my conclusions, say against someone who flat out believes Aliens cannot exist. but thats the nature of it.

If you want to really read something potentially life-altering, read Zachariah Sitchin's book "The Lost Books of Enki"

NOTE : for the sitchin newb, do not, DO NOT mistake this book for fact!
the 14 tablets of Enki in this book are entirely fictional creations of Sitchin. This book is his vision of what the original "bible" or story, that lead to all other religions would/could have looked like, using the knowledge he learned from the other REAL sumarian texts. It is an awesome piece of work, written as a scribe from Arcadian times. It could have a profound effect on you, alot of it just seems so obvious. :P

NOTE2 : this book is the prime cause for the Niburu hoax story on the internet (not the doomsday one). you can still find pages and pages referencing the lost books of enki like they are real artifacts

Another awesome Sumarian text :

Enki and the New World Order

The lord established a shrine, a holy shrine, whose interior is elaborately constructed. He established a shrine in the sea, a holy shrine, whose interior is elaborately constructed. The shrine, whose interior is a tangled thread, is beyond understanding. The shrine's emplacement is situated by the constellation the Field, the holy upper shrine's emplacement faces towards the Chariot constellation. Its terrifying sea is a rising wave, its splendour is fearsome. The Anuna gods dare not approach it.

"The Field" is the square part of Pegasus Constellation
"The Charriot" Auriga Constellation

TemplarGFX
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There's also a place (can't remember where now) where at the 40,000 year ago mark is nothing but a sheet of glass. So some theorize humans must have had nuclear bombs rather than the simpler explanation that it was most likely a meteor strike (as was the destruction of certain biblical cities most likely). Big rocks hit this planet all the time and will again ;o). That we do have a plethora of evidence for. As for anything else, I'll probably not believe it until I get some solid proof. Doesn't make me a bad person, just skeptical. And I think an amount of skepticism is a good thing ;o).

Believe me, I have strange beliefs of my own, so I'm in no way immune to them myself. It's just that the alien thing is just a bit too far out for me personally.

Laurie

I gotta get into bed here, and I suspect this thread will be erased from the face of the earth by morning. Sad.

I'll leave you all with this: Ancient Aliens might not be aliens at all, but rather Descendants from a lost civilization who kept the secrets of technology and used it to gain control over the population.

They may also be good, old-fashioned Fallen Angels.

They might be Extra-Dimensionals.

Keep your options open. When it comes to History, there is a lot of room for deception. It can come from the "Authority" and it can come from the "mavericks".

Often times, the "Authority" actually creates the maverick theory while a third, undiscussed truth remains very carefully hidden.

Trust nothing, research and make your own conclusions but never stop testing them.

Thank you all for a wonderful, fun night.

-WTB

aah, speaking of Extra-Dimensionals (not my belief) have a listen to this radio call (coast to coast)

link

now this has been half debunked, but there is always the conspiracy theorists hope that "The Government" got to him, and made him lie about the truth of this call.

Gotta love conspiracies!

LaurieA. I think you are 100% spot on with the glass, that was a meteor impact for sure. I mean yes, I nuclear weapon could do that, but a nuclear weapon of that magnitude would leave an ABUNDANCE of evidence all over the world from the fallout of such an event.
Pretty much every revelation paragraph talks about meteors (ok slight exaggeration there). and Im pretty sure all other references to fireballs are meteors too.
Lucifer's banishment from Heaven is really the only part of the bible I took into consideration myself (which I think I pointed out). While the bible has great stuff in it, its all either interprited Sumarian texts, or things that happened around 2000 years ago, not 6000 where I focused my attention (during the occupation of the Gods).

TemplarGFX
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In reference to a few post above, I have no problem with this post as long as everyone acts like adults. This has been an interesting post to read. Lets keep it that way.

Keep in mind everyone has different beliefs. Think before you type. If this starts to get out of hand we will lock it.

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

IBTL But it made my head hurt.

I don't have anything really interesting/new to add at this point, however, I did want to say that this has been a most fascinating thread. I hope the discussion continues, as I am always open to listening to theories and beliefs that may be different then mine. For me, it gets the wheels turning about the what if's and the possibilities.

It's written here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGkRFFBd0A

There used to be a discussion forum here which Renderosity eventually shut down because of non-stop flame wars.

The nekkid thumbnail thing seems to be clear cut... but these kinds of posts are allowed with some vague guidelines.

Just sayin

Nowadays anything with 'OT' can be discussed... might as well bring back the general discussion forum

OT - I took 3 aspirin and my headache's not gone...

OT - Jesus crossed the desert on a ass not a donkey...

Where are the guidelines?

If it works (and it does, the vast majority of all conversations are poser related here), why rock the boat Coleman?

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I see...

well then calling out religions of all kinds should be welcomed I guess?

Jews base their entire religion on the Egyptian template.
Moses was found in the Nile river... but it flows north... which makes him African not Jewish which kinda eff's up the whole damned shabang don't it? An African Moses posing as a Jew?
Christians use the Jewish template and Roman system of religion... and Egyptian and Greek ( which was derived from Egypt with different names... ) uh and all the religions that were around at the time when Paul was alive that Paul was exposed to. Sh$t - Christianity is like hotdogs - everything's thrown in and blended together.

Julius Caesar was Pontifex Maximus before Jesus was born. Paul uses this Roman system of Pontifex and everyone who wants a ride to heaven calls themselves Pope from then on.

Caesar's duties as Pontifex Maximus was to ensure the purity of the Vestal Virgins. Vestal Virgins... Virgin Mary... the Egyptian myth of virgin birth passed down and down and down until it was forgotten where it originated.

Christmas falls on an Egyptian holiday.

We're interested in this... in the Poser forum?

Why rock the boat? Because JenX, a moderator has posted that it is not permissible. This whole thing sounds like Scientology and thus is religious.

Please refer to this sticky:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2788119

As Posted by JenX:"Because they almost always incite personal attacks, posts of religious and political nature are, as they have been in the past, not welcome".*

*Now we have one Mod saying that it's OK while another has posted a sticky saying that it isn't OK. That's fractured and unprofessional and clearly indicates that the moderator staff, in this situation, contradict posted policy. If one user cannot post about Allah, Jesus, Buddha then you shouldn't be able to post about this as it sites religious doctrine and events. What makes you think that you are better than everyone else that it is alright for you to post your beliefs when others cannot? I even like your arguments but this is not the place and other members have a right to call out this obvious double standard.

Well put coleman.

You could point it to being a Poser conversation but it will only get inflammatory.

When has anyone here experienced the feeling of the number zero?

No one here has. No one here can. Thus... religion... the need or desire of it.

Math can't answer everything afterall.

Zero is a make believe number used by science as a 'magic'... something it doesn't call a number but happily uses.

Science is a religion. It has prophets... Einstein and ( gasp ) Darwin. It has its own Creationism...the Big Bang...

but like religion it has unknowns... Dark Matter... while it laughs at Spiritualists thought of ghosts... Science creates its own 'reality' .... until the true cause is discovered.

But it relies solely on human detection... the five imperfect senses and our imperfect digital detection abilities.

How can one detect perfection with imperfect means?

Just like the 5 billion different interpretations of Jesus' belches can be argued ad nauseum and made to make Poser folks STOP POSTING HELPFUL POSTS because these explosive, emotional subjects scare them off from thinking this was a Poser forum.

bring back the general debate forum or squash these OT threads... I say

BRAVO!!! Yes!

Here something along those lines to. Prove that the dog mentioned previously isn't God. I am not joking. Prove he isn't God. Dog spelled backwards is... ooooo... God, right?

Seriously, since it cannot be proven, there is a chance that the dog is God, even if that chance is .0000000001% it is still a possibility. To say otherwise would be entirly unscientific. This is because no person REALLY KNOWS.

Hey coleman, whe are the only people here now.

The square root of -1 is a special number we call "i," and it is a member of a set of numbers called the imaginary numbers. The imaginary numbers are the set of all numbers that are the square root of negative numbers.

Why does science use 'imaginary' numbers?

Because ( I'm gonna whisper this for ya so they won't explode )... they have no effing clue just like religious folk

not even Gamma Correction can fix our not knowing what the hell is going on!!!!

This sh*t is scary and beyond the Poser forum to ever come to terms with let alone figure out how to make perfect lighting in every scene.

OK, now you're just showing off :)

Quote - In reference to a few post above, I have no problem with this post as long as everyone acts like adults. This has been an interesting post to read. Lets keep it that way.

Keep in mind everyone has different beliefs. Think before you type. If this starts to get out of hand we will lock it.

perhaps you all missed this moderator post?

TemplarGFX
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JenX Posted in a sticky a couple months ago that such posts are not permissible. That means it is a posted rule representing the position of Renderosity about this sort of thing. It doesn't matter if one mod goes off the reservation. That sticky has not been pulled or diminished by the Administrator and therefore is an OFFICIAL POLICY STATEMENT. So, don't play dumb.

Apparently, you didn't even read the sticky link that I posted. Figures.

The problem is if I start an OT about how Islam is better than Christianity... after the mods here let a Christianity discussion go for 6 pages... now they're gonna shut that down right off?

I was a Christain and had non-stop migraines... then I became a Muslim and have not had a headache since...

Re-open the general discussion forum or be ready for numerous vague Mod judgments that will come back to haunt Osity.

this has about as much to do with christianity as you read into it. were talking about aliens visiting the earth 6000 years ago, not christ dying on the cross 2000 years ago....

I also did not compare my theory to a religion and say it is better, thats being rude

TemplarGFX
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templargfx: Actualy, you did. you're just so caught up in your dialog that you don't realize it.

coleman: I agree. I think I will just jump ship and leave the forums. I don't need the headaches, either. It was nice chatting with you coleman, it's been a while.

'the bible is actually a translation'

You were talking about the Bible of Mars?

My bad - I am off base and will quit - sorry to run a string of nonsense here

It's all the nakid aliens in thumbnails I'm telling you!

In the end does it really matter? You can read all you want but everything still started out as that person's opinion, just like the opinions stated here. I am a Christian, no migraines here. Why would you attribute your migraines to Christianity? When you said that you negated anything you said before, sounds to me like you just wanted to get the fact that you are Muslim? I wish Rendo would create a forum that is unmoderated...let the dogs loose. If you don't want your feelings hurt don't go in. Whenever I see OT I'm curious how far people will go before they get slapped on the wrist and sent back to another forum. I don't think people realize how desperate they appear at times when trying to prove they are right. In the end we will all find out, but then it is too late to come back and say I told you so! I wonder if that would be considered hell? lol
Come in and flame me if you wish, I've unchecked notify since this thread has pretty much become a soapbox for one or two folks who insist on shoving their ideas down everyone's throat, and if you can't quote from their sources you are obviously not intelligent enough to even discuss it. Putting my popcorn down and going to make some coffee, got things to do.

> Quote - So now you've got about six posts of real conversation, and then two pages of "Look at these idiots" and the super-mocking "my dog is an alien diety" disrupters and the 3 people who inevitably latch on.

Ralphie says he's not an alien, and never claimed to be one. Deity, sure.

By the by, what is a "diety" anyway, some kinda mini-diet? A fast fast?

Ralphie don't need to diet, he stays svelte eating whatever he wants. Although the pup-peronis do go right to his hips.

Ralphie says ... life is too short, don't let yer shorts ride up on ya.

(P.S. - thanks for the "super-mocking" accolade. I was going for a sort of goofy, humorous counterpoint to the grave pontification, but super-mocking, oh my !)

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I dont know where the super mocking came from, but thats probably because thats the first post of yours I've bothered to read

TemplarGFX
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Quote - I dont know where the super mocking came from, but thats probably because thats the first post of yours I've bothered to read

Quote - Hello everyone, hopefully after reading this, you don't think Im a complete nut-job!

My father, for many years has studied and researched facts behind religion, artifacts, writings, things like that. His studied took him to the first recorded advanced human civilisation, the Sumarians.

Don't feel bad, this is all I read of your posts. When you misspell Sumerian right off the bat, you pretty much establish your credentials.

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

so you decided to troll a thread you didnt even read? but then again I can see why you chose trolling as your speciality on an art website....

TemplarGFX
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I am bored rather easily, I must admit.

Sorry to have derailed your most incisive exploration of alternative realities on an art website ...

Ralphie is sorry, too.

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device. Beige horizontal case. I don't display my unit.

The worth of this art website is going to be severely compromised by threads as irrelevant and, more importantly, as confrontational as this one. And using the word irrelevant is putting it politely, as we're all expected to do here.

@ Klebnor: I thank whatever gods and aliens there are that you bothered to post here, and introduced a little bit of welcome levity into what would otherwise have been a load of complete ... um, sorry - gotta keep things polite! ps: Love the pooch pix!

Attached Link: www.godlikeproductions.com

Good morning everyone! What a pleasant suprise to see the thread still going, with tolerance by a mod!

What a sad thing to see that nearly everything since has been debate on whether the thread should even exist.

With fresh perspective, it probably shouldn't. I could see a forum here for off-site topical discussions with link.

For example: Interested in Ancient Aliens? Follow Link.

No replies or futher discussion allowed here.

Just a suggestion.

Since we're still going, I want to address the one part of topic that got talked about....the ancient sheet of glass.

One of the most sacred texts of Hinduism, Mahabharata, contains a very concise, detailed account of an ancient war in India. At one point, a special arsenal is let loose. The literal translation is "Missles".

When the missles strike the earth, a mushroom cloud is described, followed by people turning to ash where they stood. Then, a foul wind blows with the air current, making everyone sick in it's path...their hair and teeth falling out and their skin blistering as they run to the river to try to wash it off of themselves. Nothing grows for generations from these weapons, and mighty cities are left vacant.

The account very clearly describes nuclear weapons, not meteors.

Now, in light of this, these sheets of glass around the ancient world, (Including Pakistan/India) should validate what is written and considered sacred by the folk from the area.

> Quote - Love the pooch pix!

Ralphie welcomes you to his ever growing family of devotees.

Are you any good with a poop scoop?

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@ WTB - your post above is very much of interest to Killing Joke, one of my favourite bands. One of their albums, "Brighter Than a Thousand Suns" was inspired directly by the text you refer to.

I'm staying - ahem - 'open minded' regarding the sheets of glass and the explosions but it isn't hard to mimic the destructive force of a nuclear explosion with an asteroid strike. Also, "missile" doesn't necessarily mean "self powered rocket/explosive device" in our language, nor, I suspect, in any other. Has anyone measured the background radiation of these areas? If there was a nuclear missile strike, the background should be a little higher than elsewhere.

BTW, I'm not trying to discount/discredit the texts, just asking questions.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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Sam -

the text in question:

**Gurkha,
flying a swift and powerful vimana
hurled a single projectile
Charged with all the power of the Universe.
An incandescent column of smoke and flame
As bright as the thousand suns
Rose in all its splendour...
a perpendicular explosion
with its billowing smoke clouds...
...the cloud of smoke
rising after its first explosion
formed into expanding round circles
like the opening of giant parasols...
..it was an unknown weapon,
An iron thunderbolt,
A gigantic messenger of death,
Which reduced to ashes
The entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.
...The corpses were so burned
As to be unrecognizable.
The hair and nails fell out;
Pottery broke without apparent cause,
And the birds turned white.
After a few hours
All foodstuffs were infected...
...to escape from this fire
The soldiers threw themselves in streams
To wash themselves and their equipment.

Ancient verses from the Mahabharata: (6500 B.C.?)

** A quick glance, I can't turn up any specific radiation tests done on the glass sheet areas...however, I think I did read once that the radiation was higher. Either way, I'm sure a Meteorite could bring radiation as well? So as a benchmark, I'm not sure it's going to be very useful.

The text from the Mahabharata is pretty clear though, wouldn't you say?
**
**

Quote - You could point it to being a Poser conversation but it will only get inflammatory.

When has anyone here experienced the feeling of the number zero?

No one here has. No one here can. Thus... religion... the need or desire of it.

Math can't answer everything afterall.

Zero is a make believe number used by science as a 'magic'... something it doesn't call a number but happily uses.

Science is a religion. It has prophets... Einstein and ( gasp ) Darwin. It has its own Creationism...the Big Bang...

but like religion it has unknowns... Dark Matter... while it laughs at Spiritualists thought of ghosts... Science creates its own 'reality' .... until the true cause is discovered.

But it relies solely on human detection... the five imperfect senses and our imperfect digital detection abilities.

How can one detect perfection with imperfect means?

Just like the 5 billion different interpretations of Jesus' belches can be argued ad nauseum and made to make Poser folks STOP POSTING HELPFUL POSTS because these explosive, emotional subjects scare them off from thinking this was a Poser forum.

bring back the general debate forum or squash these OT threads... I say

Sciences is not religion. It's a "Weltanschauung" ,a view on life .Also religion is a

view on life.But Science is no religion .for example: Scientists evolved rules for

tests in order to avoid ,that results are corupted by the expectations of those who

do the researchings.Unlike religion, science don't claim to know the absolute truth

(at least the serious among them )as often told , they speak of theories ,which means

that there are certain issues, that are not fully understood yet.Lots of those

theories have allready found their practial use in our daily life .They seems to work

allthough not completly understood.Look at Einstein's famous work of distorsion in

space and time , the theory of relativity for example.It actually find its use in

your navigation system that uses the gps.Timecode and locations of you and at least 3

satelites have to be syncronized by regarding Einstein' formulas, or else your

position can't be exactly located .Dark matter and big bang are theories that are

based on observations.Those Theories are the most possible apearing speculation, why

the universe looks to us as it appears, untill now. Never claiming "we've found the

ultimate truth now.That is of course much to often unsatisfying and

frustrating.Scientists have to deal with that .Life is not a musical request

programm. Unlikly Science Religion needs faith.If you believe and it makes you feel

good , why not? But there is one problem I see .I bet in medieval times ,women who

were accused of being witches, wished they were judged by scientists instead of

believers . one thing : I aggree with your remark on imperfect senses , but what is

"perfect" ? I understand "perfect" as a complete aggreement with pregiven terms of

referencies.For example I want a poser ball prop ,that is mathematicly exactly a

sphere , here you are,done ,"PERFECT" .So what do you mean with "perfect"? So what

are those terms you are talking about ? about the Universe we are in here ? On whose

term ? On mine ? On yours ? After all being aware of our imperfect sense, we try to

build test assemblies , that can exlude our expectation ,our likes or dislikes and

delusions made by our imperfect senses , so that's why we try to be objective .

Thanks, WTB.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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Quote - JenX Posted in a sticky a couple months ago that such posts are not permissible. That means it is a posted rule representing the position of Renderosity about this sort of thing. It doesn't matter if one mod goes off the reservation. That sticky has not been pulled or diminished by the Administrator and therefore is an OFFICIAL POLICY STATEMENT. So, don't play dumb.

Apparently, you didn't even read the sticky link that I posted. Figures.

Right it was. But I posted that it was fine to see if everyone to talk about such statements and act like adults. And seems like not. shrugs Because of policy, this thread is now locked.

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: OT: The Creation of Life, the Sumarians and the Bible