First I want to say that this is just what the title claims....a rant.  But it takes a lot to make me go off on a good rant, and "they" have certainly pushed me to that point.

How is this related to Poser?  Well, I think many of the potential customers for Reality are in the same boat as I am, which is a Poser AND a Daz Studio user (along with other rendering software) trying to find the magic combination to make the most realistic renders they can.
And that I was (and still am) voicing my opinion about this latest product.  I do not have a personal vendetta or a professional agenda of any kind, except to share my concerns with my fellow consumers.

So....with all that being said, my rant is that Daz 3D deleted my post in their forum because it didn't speak highly of it's newest "hot" selling item: Reality

I don't think I unnecessarily slammed anyone or the product itself, I simply stated that I didn't think the product was as advertised and that there were much more productive and easier alternatives.
And just because ONE other person started an "argument" with me, my post was removed.

The email I received from them explaining why the post was removed stated:
*".....has been removed as the TOS explicitly prohibit posts that will provoke a site war, as this seems likely to do. It also makes an unwarranted accusation against Pret-a-3d, who has never claimed to be doing more than provide an exporter to LuxRender.

In general, if you find yourself using half of your post defending the post, and speculating on why it might be removed, then it is probably an indication that you need to rethink either the content or the manner of presentation.*"

1- I didn't start a "site war", only ONE other person was arguing with me and I was defending myself just from ONE other person....hardly a "site war".  In fact, by reading the other posts there, it seems a good portion of the site agreed with my observations.  .

2 - Pret-a-3d never claimed ANYTHING, or close to it.  But he definitely did not make it exactly clear on what his product was and how it worked in conjunction with D|S and LuxRender.  I found him to be very elusive from the start and that put up a red flag for me right away.
And the statement he made that "Reality" would be very competitively priced is simply not true.
Other similar exporters are in fact FREE!

3 - I can understand why Daz 3D doesn't want anyone to speak badly of this product, since I'm sure they expect to make a tidy little profit on it.  Which just reaffirms it's all about money with them and not customer satisfaction.

THIS RANT IS NOW THANKFULLY OVER!   WHEW!

(If I am in error about anything, or even if you think I am making a big deal about nothing, then I am very open to hearing about it.  I will not be offended if your views differ from mine)

I'm sorry, did we need another?

Laurie

I did. Sorry.

I took a look at both of your "rants".

Yes, you're really making a big deal out of nothing. I think I read the exact things you did and the plug in does pretty much I though it would and it was at the price I thought it would be as well. Maybe you were that person that everyone jumped on because the person didn't really understand what the product was all about and spouted a bunch of things that wasn't true about the product, but that's neither here nor there.

I don't really think it was really worth your time to run to a different site to rant about a product you don't really want to buy. And that's what it was... a unnecessary rant. And that's why it got deleted.

For example, I love all the House of the Dead games and I was stoked when there was a version of the game coming out last year, only to find out it was just for the Wii. I was upset and disappointed, but I didn't run on Nintendo's site to complain about the product. It wasn't worth my time. My solution was either to fork up the money for the Wii to get the product or just play with what I have.

Sounds like a similar solution could apply to you.

Either way, I think you'll be alright. ;)

And when this thread gets deleted, where you gonna rant ?
:biggrin:

Quote - And when this thread gets deleted, where you gonna rant ?
:biggrin:

Can I send my rants to you? :lol:

Okay I get the message.  But don't y'all come crying to me when everything falls into place in about a month from now.  All you'll get from me is a big "I told you so!'

'Nuff Said!

You can cheer yourself up by picturing what the "Reality" creator is going to feel like after a few months of dealing with support for it.

Quote - > Quote - And when this thread gets deleted, where you gonna rant ?

:biggrin:

Can I send my rants to you? :lol:

Okay I get the message.  But don't y'all come crying to me when everything falls into place in about a month from now.  All you'll get from me is a big "I told you so!'

'Nuff Said!

Somehow I'm thinking that's not going to happen. I would just let it go and focus on other things... that last post sounds more like you're hatin' on that product, and we don't want that do we?

Quote - You can cheer yourself up by picturing what the "Reality" creator is going to feel like after a few months of dealing with support for it.

At $50 to $80 a pop, at least he'll be well paid for it, LOL.

Regards, Michael

My DeviantArt page

Quote - You can cheer yourself up by picturing what the "Reality" creator is going to feel like after a few months of dealing with support for it.

And coming up with the promised 64bit version and one that supports animation. 

"DAZ Cult Rant"

LOL, well considering Rendo has become the Anti-DAZ cult, I guess this is the appropriate place for such a rant.

SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Anti Daz? Who?  There is no anti daz sentiments around here.  :laugh:

Quote - "DAZ Cult Rant"

LOL, well considering Rendo has become the Anti-DAZ cult, I guess this is the appropriate place for such a rant.

SnowS

congratulations. your part of the problem.

I think Poser 8 renders pretty good already.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Quote - First I want to say that this is just what the title claims....a rant.  But it takes a lot to make me go off on a good rant, and "they" have certainly pushed me to that point. blah..... blah.... blah

Why All the Emotionalism over the DAZ "reality"plugin?
The poser one  is coming along nicely... be patient
you, Like the DAZ Studio  users,  will soon see the "Reality"
of How BADLY Made most poser figures& Clothing actually Are, in the unforgiving light
of a physically correct render Engine

As for the Deleted post at DAZ what did you expect??
Calm Down

Cheers.

My website

YouTube Channel

Okay, here's a new rant.
Why is it that when a person already acknowledges the error of their ways, and says okay maybe you guys are right, you will still get half a dozen people still harping on you to CTFO or CTFD, when you have already said that you are over it already?

RTFP

(It wasn't the plugin that bothered me, it was the way it was presented and about customers not knowing about the many alternatives to said plugin)

I'll say it again:
I'm chilled, I'm calm, I'm over it.
'NUF SAID!

I need my coffee.

Quote -
you, Like the DAZ Studio  users,  will soon see the "Reality"
of How BADLY Made most poser figures& Clothing actually Are, in the unforgiving light
of a physically correct render Engine

Quoted for truth. (Made me chuckle too)

Quote - Okay, here's a new rant.
Why is it that when a person already acknowledges the error of their ways, and says okay maybe you guys are right, you will still get half a dozen people still harping on you to CTFO or CTFD, when you have already said that you are over it already?

Well that's the beauty of internet forums... you open the door and people will disco through it. ;)

Kind of like negative reenforcement here though. 

"It wasn't the plugin that bothered me, it was the way it was presented and about customers not knowing about the many alternatives to said plugin"

Just curious but what "many alternatives" are there for DAZ STUDIO USERS to get complete DAZ Studio scenes into LUX with textures,
besides Exporting obj files blender and applying the textures by hand??.

Also how is the Merchant of the "reality" plugin responsible  for
customers "not knowing" about "alternatives" to HIS Commercial Product.

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

Quote - "It wasn't the plugin that bothered me, it was the way it was presented and about customers not knowing about the many alternatives to said plugin"

Just curious but what "many alternatives" are there for DAZ STUDIO USERS to get complete DAZ Studio scenes into LUX with textures,
besides Exporting obj files blender and applying the textures by hand??.

Also how is the Merchant of the "reality" plugin responsible  for
customers "not knowing" about "alternatives" to HIS Commercial Product.

Cheers

I actually agree with you on something Wolf359...it's rare, but true in this case ;o).

Laurie

"congratulations. your part of the problem."

Ahh, so pointing out a problem makes you a part of it...reminds me of politics these days.

It's interesting that there wasn't widespread talk about using external renderers like Lux with Poser until DAZ Studio users got one and then it immediately became OMG WE NEED ONE TOO DAZ'S SUCKS THEY'RE EEEEVILLL. I'm all for innovation and I hope you can make a good alternative, but there's really a lot of unnecessary negativity towards DAZ around here for reasons I've yet to completely understand.

SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Enough bickering already.

Who cares what who wants to use? I don't. I just want the best renders I can get as as easily as I can get them. I don't care which program does the job.

Laurie

Quote - Enough bickering already.

Who cares what who wants to use? I don't. I just want the best renders I can get as as easily as I can get them. I don't care which program does the job.

Laurie

Bravo!  Yes I agree, enough bickering.  It's one thing to vent and get it out of your system, but I will not have my irrational, childish, whiny rant turned into a free-for-all. :rolleyes:

Can't we all just get along?  Or at least pretend to?

Quote - "congratulations. your part of the problem."

Ahh, so pointing out a problem makes you a part of it...reminds me of politics these days.

It's interesting that there wasn't widespread talk about using external renderers like Lux with Poser until DAZ Studio users got one and then it immediately became OMG WE NEED ONE TOO DAZ'S SUCKS THEY'RE EEEEVILLL. I'm all for innovation and I hope you can make a good alternative, but there's really a lot of unnecessary negativity towards DAZ around here for reasons I've yet to completely understand.

SnowS

We've been able to render outside Poser for years, Bryce still renders Poser content quite nicely if you can get past the Daz Studio interface.

ps I don't hate Daz or Daz Studio, I just have trouble working with their software, not that the software isn't good I'm just hopeless with it.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Let's put price in perspective. At $79 Reality may seem expensive but AFAIK, it works with the free version of DS. If you want an easy way to get Lux rendering for Poser/Daz content, you can pay $79 for a plugin and use a free 3D figure app, or pay whatever Poser costs and get a free plugin - choice is great.

At any rate, it hardly rises to Bernie Madoff (with my money) levels of scam-ery or whatever your elected reps are probably up to at this very moment :-) As Wolf suggests, people will soon find that "reality" (small r) is still wanting, and with the fires of their post-orgasmic bliss ebbing, they will be on to the next big thing. Psst, I heard that DS will soon have direct neural input!
 

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - and then it immediately became OMG WE NEED ONE TOO DAZ'S SUCKS THEY'RE EEEEVILLL.

What are you smoking? Or are you just so biased that you read that into posts?

Quote - Okay, here's a new rant.
Why is it that when a person already acknowledges the error of their ways, and says okay maybe you guys are right, you will still get half a dozen people still harping on you to CTFO or CTFD, when you have already said that you are over it already?

RTFP

(It wasn't the plugin that bothered me, it was the way it was presented and about customers not knowing about the many alternatives to said plugin)

I'll say it again:
I'm chilled, I'm calm, I'm over it.
'NUF SAID!

I need my coffee.

Why do some people do it? 

They don't have enough to do?

They like to argue?

They're always right and anyone who opposes them is automatically wrong?

The whys are as varied as human nature.

As far as your post being pulled by the mods and rapping your knucles with a ruler, that happens.  You make a comment, someone gets hot under the collar.  They won't let it go even after you've tried to end it.  The mods step in and because you're the OP, you get a lecture.  If it really bothers you, stay off the DAZ forums. 

"We've been able to render outside Poser for years, Bryce still renders Poser content quite nicely if you can get past the Daz Studio interface."

Yes of course, I've seen many nice renders using Poser content in Vue, Bryce (Bryce actually has a Kai interface more than a DS one), and higher-end programs. I was referring to the recent desire to render in a separate rendering engine.

"What are you smoking? Or are you just so biased that you read that into posts?"

LOL, well let's see, Reality comes out and not only do people start with the "DAZ Cult" rants, but a community project immediately springs up to create a free alternative for Poser.

I don't come here for my health, nor am I representing or speaking for DAZ when I involve myself in threads like this. I personally just don't like seeing DAZ-bashing when there's no obvious justification, and that seems to happen a lot here.

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Quote - "We've been able to render outside Poser for years, Bryce still renders Poser content quite nicely if you can get past the Daz Studio interface."

Yes of course, I've seen many nice renders using Poser content in Vue, Bryce (Bryce actually has a Kai interface more than a DS one), and higher-end programs. I was referring to the recent desire to render in a separate rendering engine.

"What are you smoking? Or are you just so biased that you read that into posts?"

LOL, well let's see, Reality comes out and not only do people start with the "DAZ Cult" rants, but a community project immediately springs up to create a free alternative for Poser.

I don't come here for my health, nor am I representing or speaking for DAZ when I involve myself in threads like this. I personally just don't like seeing DAZ-bashing when there's no obvious justification, and that seems to happen a lot here.

If you'd like the "real" poop on the whole LuxPose thing:

Pret-A-3D announces Reality. Some of us Poser users says "Oh, nice. Will it be available for Poser?" Nope, says Paolo. "Not possible with Python". Now, I don't know about you, but there's just some folks around here (coders mainly) that you just can't say "impossible" to without the obligatory "We'll just have to prove you wrong then". And so LuxPose was born. More of an exercise to prove that it can be done more than a "we've just gotta have it" mentality.

But that could just be the monkeys flying out of my ass again...

Laurie

Ugh.

The OP was a rant.  IT WAS HIS POINT OF VIEW. 

Can we keep this thread from turning into a site war?  PLEASE?

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

It seems that I'm not the only one with a rant that need excising (or is it exorcising?).

What exactly is a site war?  Is this a new term?  I've heard it twice in as so many days now.
Maybe it's just a "site skirmish" or "site police action"?

Coming soon to a URL near you...."Site Wars: Victoria Strikes Back!"

Oh, it's just the ages-old argument "mine is bigger than yours" thing, only in more modern terms ;o).

Laurie

Quote - Let's put price in perspective. At $79 Reality may seem expensive but AFAIK, it works with the free version of DS. If you want an easy way to get Lux rendering for Poser/Daz content, you can pay $79 for a plugin and use a free 3D figure app, or pay whatever Poser costs and get a free plugin - choice is great. 

Or use modo to render.  It's way way faster than Lux.  I don't have 20 hours to wait using Lux and the render is just meh.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Quote - > Quote - Let's put price in perspective. At $79 Reality may seem expensive but AFAIK, it works with the free version of DS. If you want an easy way to get Lux rendering for Poser/Daz content, you can pay $79 for a plugin and use a free 3D figure app, or pay whatever Poser costs and get a free plugin - choice is great. 

Or use modo to render.  It's way way faster than Lux.  I don't have 20 hours to wait using Lux and the render is just meh.

Not everyone can afford a $900 program, unless you are a student and get it at academic pricing. Also, importing poser stuff into modo is not as straight forward as what these plugins do.

"Someone is wrong on the internet "

LOL, I love it! 

Giving anyone with the price of a cup of coffee access to the biggest soapbox in human history was bound to be a mixed blessing at best. At least AOL died for their sins :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - At least AOL died for their sins :-)

that was me dancing on the grave....

;o)

Laurie

I already explained why I started working on this project now instead of last September when somebody first asked about the possiblity of an exporter.

1) Last September I was working on Poser Pro 2010 and another job. It would have been really rude of me to make SM wait on PP2010 while I fooled around with another renderer.

2) Since I was working on PP2010 for quite a while, and seeing improvements in IDL, I wasn't altogether convinced that I needed another renderer. I had some expectation that IDL with GC was going to be a big step up.

3) Last month Laurie asked again in the Python forum if people wanted to take this on. I looked and noticed that Lux had changed to spectral rendering. This interested me a lot. This is something Poser cannot do. Chromatic caustics are really interesting. And I had not seen the SunSky business before that. As you know, my Environment Sphere has brought Poser's environmental lighting and reflections using 3rd party images to a new level. But the Lux SunSky is light-years beyond that.

4) Paolo joined our discussion (I still was not convinced I should work on this). When asked if he would consider doing an exporter for Poser, he said (I'm really simplifying this here) it couldn't be done to his satisfaction, with regard to speed and, because of shader node complexity, a quality conversion process would be very difficult to accomplish.

5. Further interaction with him clarified that he thought a Python exporter would be suckish slow, there was no way around that, and pretty much declared he wouldn't do it.

6. Kawecki also argued vociferously that Python was unsuitable for this.

So:

Kawecki says it's not possible.
Paolo says it's not possible.
Paolo says he's not interested.

BANG - I'm in.

If Paolo had instead simply said it is difficult, but he might consider doing it in the future, I would never have got involved.

My realistic water shaders for Poser came because too many people kept saying realistic water can't be done in poser.

My underwater shader came for the same reason.

My glass for the same reason.

My car paint for the same reason.

Pretty much all you gotta say is Poser sux and can't do something, and I'm compelled to prove you wrong.

That comic above is me.

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Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

I think you are simplifying all the reasons and he never said that poser sucks. Also all the pros and cons didn't fit under his business model so it wasn't financially feasible for him to do a Poser version. As a person that needs to pay bills, I respect anyone that can find a niche for a business opportunity, create a plan and implement it on his own. That's how a Democracy works. Many people in different areas do the same thing and we shouldn't him criticize him for something he may not think it is feasible for him. Doing that by yourself is a big undertaking to get right which I'm sure people involved in the LuxPose project are aware of. 

I have a copy of both Poser  7 and Daz Studio, but I spend most in Daz Studio because that fits my workflow. When I create something, I run it through both programs and I understand it's all about choice.. similar to when people argue about Macs and PC (Have several of each too). 

I'm going to sit down with Poser soon and go through the material room to get a better understanding of how it works and how to do things, and it's great to have two programs that can share the same content and it great to have as many tools in my belt to help me in my work. 

I'm following the LuxPose exporter with great interest as well, because it would be yet another tool for  me to use, but what troubles me is amount of arguing and insulting that goes on here and pissing matches that I hit upon each thread. All that will do is delay or halt development and we're all grown people and should treat each other as such. When you get down to it, we use the same content and we have the same love for this craft and we should act as such.

As for Paolo's tool, I'm having a blast with it and some of the renders I've done have pretty much blown me away... it's also shown me that not all content is created equal. ;)

I look forward to the same functionality with LuxPose and seeing what I can do with it.

Terry

Quote -

LOL, well let's see, Reality comes out and not only do people start with the "DAZ Cult" rants, but a community project immediately springs up to create a free alternative for Poser.

Um, some members of the community had talked about a plugin a while back.  Just recently, they got more organized and DID something.  I was asked to create a sticky.  
This is as "in-depth" of a "community project" as it gets.  If you recall, this is how the whole community, at large, did stuff back in the day.  Folks got together, and figured out how to make something work that didn't before.
As for the Anti-DAZ sentiments....the OP ranted.  The responses he got were mainly "uh, you're overreacting".  He came around, realized that, yeah, he was.  Posts of the same kind happen here, DAZ, RDNA, used to happen at PP...are we supposed to tell people that they can't have an opinion anymore?  Once it becomes defamatory, yes, we stop it . But, simply airing frustration is ok, and usually curtailed by other members.  And please don't tell me that it doesn't happen at DAZ.  It does.  A few years ago, I was a pretty regular forum member over there.  Now?  I feel like, unless I'm working a customer service angle for Rendo, I'm not welcome, thanks to all of the anti-Renderosity sentiment.  
What would be awesome is if everyone would kindly remove the chips from their shoulders and get back to being a community again.  

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - I think you are simplifying all the reasons

I should hope you think so. I'd be disappointed if my having said "(I'm really simplifying this here)" failed to make that clear. Did you even notice I said that?

Quote - and he never said that poser sucks.

When I read things like this I'm really confused by forum communication. Where did I say or even imply that Paolo said Poser sucks? I said that "you" (as in anybody) can get me to demonstrate a supposed impossibility with Poser simply by saying it's not possible, when I know it is.

Quote - Also all the pros and cons didn't fit under his business model so it wasn't financially feasible for him to do a Poser version.

Yes, well, that was something I explained in more detail the first time I responded to somebody making the observation that "a community project immediately springs up" in response to Reality. The project wasn't a response to Reality. The project was a response to Paolo saying there would not be a Reality exporter for Poser. That's quite a different thing.

As I said, if he had even given the slightest interest in pursuing it, I would have let him make his money with it. I have the luxury of making Poser tools and content for free, just because it's fun and being part of the community is fun.

Similarly, for a long time, when face_off's skin shaders were king, I did not publish any skin shader once I got close to the quality he was doing. It wasn't until he pretty much disappeared that I published a quality free skin shader. Had he stayed in the game, I would have let him make his money without needless competition.

Quote - As a person that needs to pay bills, I respect anyone that can find a niche for a business opportunity, create a plan and implement it on his own.

Yes and that's exactly the point I just made. If I think that my free stuff might compete with somebody's Poser content income, I don't publish it.

Quote - Many people in different areas do the same thing and we shouldn't him criticize him for something he may not think it is feasible for him.

Dude, where did I criticize him? I said he wasn't interested, so I moved, because I want to use LuxRender and I can't buy an exporter for Poser.

Weird.

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Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

"A few years ago, I was a pretty regular forum member over there.  Now?  I feel like, unless I'm working a customer service angle for Rendo, I'm not welcome, thanks to all of the anti-Renderosity sentiment.  "

That's exactly how I feel about Renderosity now; I used to spend every minute of my 3D-related time here and I was one of the leading free stuff and tutorial providers here for a long time. Now I feel like I have no business here because I believe in the quality of DAZ products and am judged as a representative of DAZ no matter what I say. I'll keep coming for the galleries and the occasional Marketplace item, but this is definitely not the same Rendo it used to be.

"I'm not welcome, thanks to all of the anti-Renderosity sentiment. "

We could argue endlessly about that, the only anti-Renderosity sentiment I've personally seen at DAZ is when fans of their products get tired of reading threads here started by the same gang of whiners about whatever new product DAZ has released. Sorry you feel that way.

"are we supposed to tell people that they can't have an opinion anymore?"

No, you're only supposed to tell that to people who disagree with you, like me.   ;)

SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

I don't know why you think this site is so Daz-unfriendly. Look thru the galleries and tell me how many Daz products you see in every render. I bet it's 95%+. We all shop there, we all have Vicky. It's in the nature of people to point out things they see wrong more than it is to fawn over things they see right. Can't change human nature ;o). Add in the fact that is is probably the largest Poser and Daz-related site there is and you have a lot more voices adding to those opinions.

Laurie

Another couple of clarifications from me, since I am still being talked about (which is no big deal, but I thought I'd give a better insight into where I'm coming from)

I have been a Poser fanatic since the very first version.

But I have come to find that using Daz Studio is MUCH easier to use, to pose figures, to find content and it's user interface.  For awhile I didn't use Poser at all.

But I have yet to find anything that works well as far as exporting figures or scenes to another rendering program out of Daz Studio.  Many of the claims Daz made (as far as compatibility) were total jokes, if not outright lies.

My favorite and best renders come from the Poser to Vue combination.   I just love the results I get with those two programs especially using SkinVue.   Plus the rendering time in Vue is still much faster than anything LuxRender can do.

So depending what type of work I am doing (yes I do use Poser professionally and get paid for it) I switch back and forth between these two programs, Poser and Daz Studio.

When "Reality" first was announced, I followed the thread with much anticipation, but the more I read the more disappointed and suspicious I got - and this was a couple of months before it was even released.  I still have a hard time understanding all the excitement over it.

The bottom line for me is that the renders LuxRender produces does not justify the LONG rendering time (or the price of Reality) for me to use it.  I can set up the similar types of rendering in Vue (Global Illumination, Global Radiosity, Ambient Occlusion, Spectral Atmosphere, etc) and come out with the same look (or very close to it) as Reality in at least half the time.

Quote -

Dude, where did I criticize him? I said he wasn't interested, so I moved, because I want to use LuxRender and I can't buy an exporter for Poser.

Weird.

Not weird. I really don't feel like going through the posts where you take digs (implied or otherwise) at him for not being interested in making the tool or where you have to prove him wrong. That's neither here or there and drinking this beer is a better use of my time.

Your motivation on providing something should be to fill a need, not to show someone wrong or to prove it can be done.

Wow - you're really argumentative.

I'll say it again, as it didn't seem to register with you.

I said he wasn't interested, so I moved, because I want to use LuxRender and I can't buy an exporter for Poser.

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Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Quote - "A few years ago, I was a pretty regular forum member over there.  Now?  I feel like, unless I'm working a customer service angle for Rendo, I'm not welcome, thanks to all of the anti-Renderosity sentiment.  "

That's exactly how I feel about Renderosity now; I used to spend every minute of my 3D-related time here and I was one of the leading free stuff and tutorial providers here for a long time. Now I feel like I have no business here because I believe in the quality of DAZ products and am judged as a representative of DAZ no matter what I say. I'll keep coming for the galleries and the occasional Marketplace item, but this is definitely not the same Rendo it used to be.

"I'm not welcome, thanks to all of the anti-Renderosity sentiment. "

We could argue endlessly about that, the only anti-Renderosity sentiment I've personally seen at DAZ is when fans of their products get tired of reading threads here started by the same gang of whiners about whatever new product DAZ has released. Sorry you feel that way.

"are we supposed to tell people that they can't have an opinion anymore?"

No, you're only supposed to tell that to people who disagree with you, like me.   ;)

SnowS

The problem is, our perception of things becomes our reality.  What you or I have perceived back and forth betwixt the sites may not ACTUALLY be.  I know I've taken a few comments by members a little harsher than intended.
The thing is, what you may be seeing as anti-DAZ sentiment, the rest of us are seeing as a one-off situation.  Like I said earlier, the rant is usually self-containing, and self-corrected.  Someone rants, 5 other people post something along the lines of CTFO, OP sees the point of the prev. 5, and we're golden.  

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - Wow - you're really argumentative.

I'll say it again, as it didn't seem to register with you.

I said he wasn't interested, so I moved, because I want to use LuxRender and I can't buy an exporter for Poser.

Same here.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.

I've been a casual reader (and even more casual poster) of Rendo and Daz forums for years, and I never really got a hint of any bad vibes between the two sites.  I know both sites are really strict on the porn aspect of Poser and Daz Studio, and do not allow links to such sites. But they do present a professional respect and admiration toward each other.  At least that's how I perceive it.

And the occasional Poser vs. Daz Studio debate will pop up, but from what I remember, they were all usually very civil and the last comments usually made were "use whatever feels right to you, they are just tools for your creativity".  Which I totally agree with.

I think both sites have equally good and bad aspects about them.  If anything I sense the "community feel" slipping away from both sites to make way to a large "K-Mart" impersonal feel.
They'll always be the forums, and friends in the forums, but you get a growing sense that you are not part of a "people-first" community any longer.  Definitely not like in the old PFO days with Willow and Grey (for those of you old timers that remember)

I don't know about that Leee, I remember a LOT of bickering back then, posts getting deleted, accusations flying, egos getting bruised, etc. but then there were fewer of us and no other place to go :)

But I understand what you mean, there is not such a widespread hostility of one site towards the other as a few would have us believe.   And I'll let you all in on a little secret - the silent majority who don't appear very often in here could probably care less about these little "site-wars" and the sites know it :)

As for the Lux plugins I'm just watching as an interested bystander for now, will probably try it with Poser but I just did a render with IDL, baggins' env. sphere, vss, reflections, the works and an 800x800 render took just under 30 min with very good results so I'm not exactly waiting in line for 24-hour renders.  

The most amusing thing I've seen though is the image people are putting on their renders that says 'made with Reality'.   Come on people, it's Lux doing all the rendering, that's what you ought to be advertising!!

Quote -

..... I just did a render with IDL, baggins' env. sphere, vss, reflections, the works and an 800x800 render took just under 30 min with very good results so I'm not exactly waiting in line for 24-hour renders.  

The most amusing thing I've seen though is the image people are putting on their renders that says 'made with Reality'.   Come on people, it's Lux doing all the rendering, that's what you ought to be advertising!!

Yes, thank you!  This is what's got my dander up. (not that I have much dander left these days)
Both of those observations you've made are amusing, frustrating, enlightening and just downright maddeningly truthful.   BUT....I've let it go.  I'm calm, I've found my happy place and everything is beautiful and serene.   SERENITY NOW!

 

SERENITY NOW!

:lol: Now I keep seeing Jerry Stiller going around, arms in the air, shouting - priceless! Thanks!

Quote - Your motivation on providing something should be to fill a need, not to show someone wrong or to prove it can be done.

Sorry but wanting to prove something can be done is a perfectly valid reason to do it - it's how this thing called "progress" happens

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Quote - > Quote - Your motivation on providing something should be to fill a need, not to show someone wrong or to prove it can be done.

Sorry but wanting to prove something can be done is a perfectly valid reason to do it - it's how this thing called "progress" happens

I was gonna mention that....lol.

Laurie

All through history there's been people saying "it'll never work" or "you can't do that, it's not possible" & we've got cars, planes, mobile phones, lap tops, sent men to the moon & who knows how many other things all because someone like bagginsbill says "I can do it", then goes & does it.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

I agree with Laurie that it is often a matter of perception. Just as often, those perceptions are rooted in loyalties and rivalries that have little objective reason to exist. ‘My dear Grog, our collection of cave dwellings is far superior to that slum you live in.’ If nothing else, rivalry helps us justify our own choices and helps to create unity among the villagers. Thankfully, TCP/IP doesn’t support transferring packets of poison tipped arrows.

“I'm calm, I've found my happy place and everything is beautiful and serene. SERENITY NOW!” – Good on you. Loosen the straps on your manzier, they were probably chafing.
 

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote -
“I'm calm, I've found my happy place and everything is beautiful and serene. SERENITY NOW!” – Good on you. Loosen the straps on your manzier, they were probably chafing.
 

BRO!

Quote - All through history there's been people saying "it'll never work" or "you can't do that, it's not possible" & we've got cars, planes, mobile phones, lap tops, sent men to the moon & who knows how many other things all because someone like bagginsbill says "I can do it", then goes & does it.

The problem is that the world has a lot less people like bagginsbill than it used to.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Quote -
The most amusing thing I've seen though is the image people are putting on their renders that says 'made with Reality'.   Come on people, it's Lux doing all the rendering, that's what you ought to be advertising!!

In all fairness, Reality does convert the materials into something that Lux can understand, so technically without it, you can't get DAZ studio to render to Lux. So it is made possible with Reality, maybe that should be the slogan, "Made possible with Reality".

Yes but the fact remains that the rendering engine is Lux.  I've seen similar slogans but all were referring to the renderer, not any other mediums.   For example, we can export from Poser to Bryce, Vue, Carrara, etc.    Nowhere are the exporters mentioned but rather the application used for the final render.   But then again, if that rocks your boat it's fine with me, just seemed a little over the top :)

Quote - > Quote - You can cheer yourself up by picturing what the "Reality" creator is going to feel like after a few months of dealing with support for it.

At $50 to $80 a pop, at least he'll be well paid for it, LOL.

It will be $49.57 for quite a while longer as the Platinum Club exclusivity ends September 9th and then everybody gets a crack at it at that price or a similar one and that will probably be for a few weeks as well. I've heard for quite some time that PAs only get 50%... so Paolo isn't making that much and this is his main livelihood. If it really takes off (forget the hype) then he might do well. His constant support will burn him out if he's not careful, though. Some of the users should just stop first and read the Reality manual, the Lux material that's out there and what's already been posted before asking questions that have already been asked several times, but we know how that goes.

pzrite> Quote -

When "Reality" first was announced, I followed the thread with much anticipation, but the more I read the more disappointed and suspicious I got - and this was a couple of months before it was even released.  I still have a hard time understanding all the excitement over it.

The bottom line for me is that the renders LuxRender produces does not justify the LONG rendering time (or the price of Reality) for me to use it.  I can set up the similar types of rendering in Vue (Global Illumination, Global Radiosity, Ambient Occlusion, Spectral Atmosphere, etc) and come out with the same look (or very close to it) as Reality in at least half the time.

A lot of that suspicion that you and others were voicing was kind of nutty as some of it was around render times. How can you figure render times for an unbiased render? They are all different and all long, unless you use a GPU to render. It showed a deep lack of knowledge about unbiased renderers. Granted, Paolo should have addressed it more head on earlier but as he said recently, he didn't want to get bogged down in all the technical details. Some of those same folks who voiced suspicions are now happy users.

The excitement for DAZ users is they finally get to use a nicer render engine with ease of export/import (unless you have a really complex scene or character setup requiring lots of tweaks), support that is really there including several videos showing how to do it, good documentation for once, network rendering, even using the Amazon cloud for really affordable, quicker renders (trying to get a network license for 3Delight is very costly), and the ability down the road to use GPU rendering which will speed things up considerably. Given the lengthy render times in Poser, DAZ and Carrara to do good quality IBL and GI renders, it's not that far off. Many renders are being cooked much longer than they need to, but once folks start figuring out what to do, as they are here, it will be better. The light in Lux is very realistic, more so than in DAZ Studio, Poser, Carrara, Vue and other render engines and without having to do a bunch of shader cheats and lighting tricks. You can actually approach your setup as a photographer because light behaves as it should. You can actually set up and get quality lit scenes easily. There, of course, is more work to be done, but that's always the way it is.

The only other export options for DAZ users require exporting scenes as obj files for Octane Render or Blender or getting the FBX plug in at DAZ and exporting to Houdini or another more expensive program that imports FBX.

Kevin

Looking over there at the main thread I see lots of renders with a "made with Reality" sticker, bit silly isn't it? they're not actually making anything in Reality it's all done in Daz Studio & LuxRender.

That's like doing a render in Bryce with V4 & putting "made in Daz3d Bridge" on it.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

no render should ever say rendered in Poser either as it isn't, it is rendered most likely in Firefly
as a D|S render isn't a D|S render but now either a lux render or a 3Delight render.

just had to say that

but your not leaving poser to render in Firefly or leaving Daz Studio to render in 3Delight.

to render in Luxrender you are leaving Poser or Daz Studio, via Luxpose or Reality. Luxrender is a totally separate program. Firefly and 3Delight are integrated into the respective applications.

sorry. MotoTsume, your hair splitting does not make sense.

Quote - but your not leaving poser to render in Firefly or leaving Daz Studio to render in 3Delight.

to render in Luxrender you are leaving Poser or Daz Studio, via Luxpose or Reality. Luxrender is a totally separate program. Firefly and 3Delight are integrated into the respective applications.

sorry. MotoTsume, your hair splitting does not make sense.

Actually yes you do leave both poser and D|S when rendering - you just done notice as your render window is shown in the programs - but the actual rendering is going on externally to poser and D|S, the engines send back results to the program that sent the information to it.

and since it is seamless but the transition to Lux is not..

sorry, while I'm sure it's a fasninating distinction your making, I really have to say... to the lay user, they don't see a seperate program.

they see Poser, Daz Studio or the converters to Luxrender.

QED, End of Discussion, and if you'll excuse me, I haveto and shave my Yak now.

Quote -
A lot of that suspicion that you and others were voicing was kind of nutty as some of it was around render times. How can you figure render times for an unbiased render? They are all different and all long, unless you use a GPU to render. It showed a deep lack of knowledge about unbiased renderers. Granted, Paolo should have addressed it more head on earlier but as he said recently, he didn't want to get bogged down in all the technical details. Some of those same folks who voiced suspicions are now happy users.
Kevin

But there was a very clear example posted (again, very early on) of two renders of an automobile, showing the difference between a Daz Studio render and one done with Reality/LuxRender.   The question of render times for those two specific renders were asked several times by at least a couple of different people.  The answers that Pret-a-3D gave were evasive, elusive and caused great suspicion.
It was a big red flag for those of us that did not want to deal with render times that take an extended overnight period!

The correct course of action, as a vendor, would have been to supply the correct render times for that particular render and let people decide for themselves if they wanted to have the kind of render take that long of a time to produce.  But instead, he was worried about "turning people off" and losing potential customers.  Honesty and full disclosure are always best when dealing with customers.

So that along with the other slightly sneaky salesman tactics were enough to cause me (and others) to go into a "Ralph Nader mode" and speak up for consumers' rights.

Maybe a bit over the top, but that's just how it felt.
Maybe I was unjustly feeling like the butt end of PT Barnum's "A sucker born every minute"?

And now, I realize if people are happy with this product, more power to them.  But I still think people should be made aware of their various choices and not feel like they have to deal with just one path to get that kind of rendering quality.

Platinum Club exclusivity has ended and it's available now to everyone at $49.57 thru September 9th to correct my old information above.

Kevin

Quote - > Quote -

A lot of that suspicion that you and others were voicing was kind of nutty as some of it was around render times. How can you figure render times for an unbiased render? They are all different and all long, unless you use a GPU to render. It showed a deep lack of knowledge about unbiased renderers. Granted, Paolo should have addressed it more head on earlier but as he said recently, he didn't want to get bogged down in all the technical details. Some of those same folks who voiced suspicions are now happy users.
Kevin

But there was a very clear example posted (again, very early on) of two renders of an automobile, showing the difference between a Daz Studio render and one done with Reality/LuxRender.   The question of render times for those two specific renders were asked several times by at least a couple of different people.  The answers that Pret-a-3D gave were evasive, elusive and caused great suspicion.
It was a big red flag for those of us that did not want to deal with render times that take an extended overnight period!

The correct course of action, as a vendor, would have been to supply the correct render times for that particular render and let people decide for themselves if they wanted to have the kind of render take that long of a time to produce.  But instead, he was worried about "turning people off" and losing potential customers.  Honesty and full disclosure are always best when dealing with customers.

So that along with the other slightly sneaky salesman tactics were enough to cause me (and others) to go into a "Ralph Nader mode" and speak up for consumers' rights.

Maybe a bit over the top, but that's just how it felt.
Maybe I was unjustly feeling like the butt end of PT Barnum's "A sucker born every minute"?

And now, I realize if people are happy with this product, more power to them.  But I still think people should be made aware of their various choices and not feel like they have to deal with just one path to get that kind of rendering quality.

Well, maybe Paolo also avoided the question because soon it will be a moot point. There's a new video on YouTube done with SmallLuxGPU 1.6 that took 25 seconds per frame!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsnkLQIn7YY&hd=1

If memory serves, Paolo didn't have the actual render time for the picture you are referring to. The guy who rendered it didn't write it down, but gave a ballpark later in that thread. I just know everyone who knows about unbiased rendering just shook their head and did a face palm when it came up. ;)
 

Kevin

Quote - Well, maybe Paolo also avoided the question because soon it will be a moot point. There's a new video on YouTube done with SmallLuxGPU 1.6 that took 25 seconds per frame!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsnkLQIn7YY&hd=1

When that video gets to the Blender section, it appears that the car is the only geometry in the scene, i.e. it's being rendered against a panorama backdrop or very simple set.
This is especially noticable when the environmental lighting is adjusted as the light pattern on the buildings doesn't change.

The YouTube poster says in the credits:

HDRI from Dosch Design
Ground texture from Arroway Textures

I've seen that city scene in plenty of other renders, though I don't know which Dosch kit it's from..

Still, pretty impressive!

Maybe there's hope for me still using my old Amphi Backdrop. :)

Kevin

Quote - > Quote - "We've been able to render outside Poser for years, Bryce still renders Poser content quite nicely if you can get past the Daz Studio interface."

Yes of course, I've seen many nice renders using Poser content in Vue, Bryce (Bryce actually has a Kai interface more than a DS one), and higher-end programs. I was referring to the recent desire to render in a separate rendering engine.

"What are you smoking? Or are you just so biased that you read that into posts?"

LOL, well let's see, Reality comes out and not only do people start with the "DAZ Cult" rants, but a community project immediately springs up to create a free alternative for Poser.

I don't come here for my health, nor am I representing or speaking for DAZ when I involve myself in threads like this. I personally just don't like seeing DAZ-bashing when there's no obvious justification, and that seems to happen a lot here.

If you'd like the "real" poop on the whole LuxPose thing:

Pret-A-3D announces Reality. Some of us Poser users says "Oh, nice. Will it be available for Poser?" Nope, says Paolo. "Not possible with Python". Now, I don't know about you, but there's just some folks around here (coders mainly) that you just can't say "impossible" to without the obligatory "We'll just have to prove you wrong then". And so LuxPose was born. More of an exercise to prove that it can be done more than a "we've just gotta have it" mentality.

But that could just be the monkeys flying out of my ass again...

Laurie

Not wanting to fan the flames, but I think i want to clear one bit up.  First, I do like Reality, the plugin.  It has it's faults as all software does.  Anyway, to the point.  Back in February of this year, the subject was brought up between BB and kaibach anyway about a Poser to Lux exporter.  So it isn't as if the coders only thought about it when Paulo announced his plugin.  That was a catalyst though, of that I'm sure.

Quote - Not wanting to fan the flames, but I think i want to clear one bit up.  First, I do like Reality, the plugin.  It has it's faults as all software does.  Anyway, to the point.  Back in February of this year, the subject was brought up between BB and kaibach anyway about a Poser to Lux exporter.  So it isn't as if the coders only thought about it when Paulo announced his plugin.  That was a catalyst though, of that I'm sure.

Well, sure it was, but only because the creator of the Reality plugin showed no interest in making a similar plugin for Poser.

Laurie

Yea, I posted before reading BB's post.  It really was my biggest gripe with Paulo's reaction to LuxPose. 

Anyway, both have their place.  As to the "site wars", it seems to me that if one perceives that one is anti-the other, then anything not glowingly in favor of their POV is considered hate.  Which is very sad.

Quote -
If memory serves, Paolo didn't have the actual render time for the picture you are referring to. The guy who rendered it didn't write it down, but gave a ballpark later in that thread. I just know everyone who knows about unbiased rendering just shook their head and did a face palm when it came up. ;)
 

Kevin

As the person who did the car render in question I can tell you off the top of my head that the render was stoped after 7 hours.  I did watch it for the first two hours and have the two hour version and can tell you its really good but has more noise then the 7 hour.  I only let it go to 7 cause I went to bed and wanted to see what a few more hours would do to it.

I repositioned the sun later and rendered again and this time stopped it at 15 min.  You can see the 15 min version with the differnt lighting here: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=2494964#2494964

" Back in February of this year, the subject was brought up between BB and kaibach anyway about a Poser to Lux exporter.  So it isn't as if the coders only thought about it when Paulo announced his plugin."

actually searching back, there was talk (yup me again) almost exactly a year ago about using Luxrender.

back then it was poohpoohed.

funny how time changes things :D

Quote - no render should ever say rendered in Poser either as it isn't, it is rendered most likely in Firefly
as a D|S render isn't a D|S render but now either a lux render or a 3Delight render.

just had to say that

You missed the point I was making, Reality doesn't do much more for a render than the 3d bridge from Daz Studio to Bryce, so for someone to label their render as MADE IN REALITY is either stupid or misleading.

Just for the record for those over at Daz who seem to think I hate Daz or the Reality plugin or Pret-a-3d, sorry guys you're way off, I think Reality is perhaps the most important new addition for Daz Studio that has come along since it's beginning & if I was a regular Daz Studio user I would be counting the pennies to see when I can get my hands on a copy.

I'd shake Pret-A-3d by the hand if I could, he's single-handedly given the Poser/D|S community something new to aim for instead of what most of us (me especially) have been doing which is sitting back & rendering the same tired old scenes day in day out.

The ONLY reason I'm not rushing to buy it is every time I try to use Daz Studio all I do is struggle against the interface.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

you know what is more disturbing?

this whole 'anti Daz' 'anti rendo' bullshit.

we are talking about Software. nothing more. yet ppl are prepared to make life long grudge matches, hate someone they've never met or got to know over this.

well lets have some perspective.

there are 33 Miners in Chile that won't see the sun for 4 months. Right now they are being fed through a tiny tube while they dig down to them.

there's just been an earthquake in New Zealand. 7 on the Ricther Scale.

and we're concerned with a tiny TINY slight over a software package or who came up with the idea first .  not even worth worrying about.

ye gods ppl.

what the fuck have we become.

Quote - > Quote -

If memory serves, Paolo didn't have the actual render time for the picture you are referring to. The guy who rendered it didn't write it down, but gave a ballpark later in that thread. I just know everyone who knows about unbiased rendering just shook their head and did a face palm when it came up. ;)
 

Kevin

mattymanx replied

As the person who did the car render in question I can tell you off the top of my head that the render was stoped after 7 hours.  I did watch it for the first two hours and have the two hour version and can tell you its really good but has more noise then the 7 hour.  I only let it go to 7 cause I went to bed and wanted to see what a few more hours would do to it.

I repositioned the sun later and rendered again and this time stopped it at 15 min.  You can see the 15 min version with the differnt lighting here: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=2494964#2494964

mattymanx, that is very good for 15 minutes!

Kevin

Quote - what the fuck have we become.

There's so many answers to that question that would get the person answering it banned.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

"SERENITY NOW!" 

"Lloyd Braun: You know, you should tell your dad that 'serenity now' thing

doesn't work. It just bottles up the anger, and eventually, you blow.

George: What do you know? You were in the nut house.

Lloyd Braun: What do you think put me there?"

And if you'll recall that episode ended with Estelle driving her car into Franks' garage computer store.
 

 

Just wanna say that my friend got  Reality and we've been doing stuff and IT"S AWESOME.
Fast renders, and you get results from the start.

And it works beautiful for organic or architecttural stuff. Lux is great
Now, i don't know why you guys dont like it. but oh well. everybody is different.

I don't think anyone said they didn't like it jesterD....

A lot of us are Poser users tho, so it's not quite as smooth for us as it is DS users but I think a lot of us like the idea OF it...

Anyway...on to LuxPose ;o).

Laurie

I haven't posted much on this forum, mostly Daz3d but my favourite program is by far Carrara, I have both Poser7 and the free version of DS but basically use  BOTH as Carrara plugins, neither DS or Poser render fast enough for me to do animations with shadows that look good, only ever use open GL or firefly dep on which one I use, just waiting to see what others do with this Lux render thing and whether Poser ends up with the cheaper option, and if it looks better than Carrara. I am always amused by this arguing about what is better thing! Seen great stuff from both camps, true talent even shows up with the 3 coloured pencil or playdough options! I wish I could buy an app that enables THAT!

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Tom R. Toe

My ArtyFarty AI channel

Wait.  I am confused.  There is anti Daz sentiment?  Like the company or just the forums?

Not the liking the company seems silly.  Considering the Daz is a staple in the Poser / Digital Barbie doll hobby. I do not think the hobby would be what it is today without Daz.

-G

gazu, alot of 'em hated daz or dan or the site operators for the usual trivial reasons, and even for
some unusual reasons (e.g. attributing some religion to daz owners).  but most of the haters
have been exiled to the grudge sites.

Quote - but most of the haters have been exiled to the grudge sites.

Or they never existed in the first place.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Quote - > Quote - but most of the haters have been exiled to the grudge sites.

Or they never existed in the first place.

Quoted for agreement.

Just because someone gives a negative review of a particular product does not mean their a "Daz hater"

gee get over it already, so the guy wasn't happy with the reality plug in.  Heaven forbid!

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Jeez, I thought this thread would have died by now.

"Or they never existed in the first place."

Oh, they exist, I'll be happy to point them out here the next time DAZ releases a new figure.

SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Why not point them out now if you're so sure of who they are?

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Because we're not supposed to point fingers directly at each other, that will do nothing but cause more trouble (not to mention they'd deny it anyway). They're not that hard to find though, just wait until the next newbie comes in here asking if he should learn Studio or Poser and watch.   ;)

Anyway, Jen would say this discussion doesn't serve any purpose, so we probably shouldn't just go round and round.

SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Quote - Jeez, I thought this thread would have died by now.

"Or they never existed in the first place."

Oh, they exist, I'll be happy to point them out here the next time DAZ releases a new figure.

SnowS

Outrageous!   To think that someone may not like a new Daz figure!  Yes, yes I quite agree. The impudence of such a position, just imagine. And the unmitigated gall to actually post their dislike! Absolutely horrifying. Such a person should be taken out and stoned for their transgression.  I quite agree.

And then to think that someone might actually recommend Poser over Daz studio in the Poser forum. The Daz haters!  I think the world may end very soon now. All this wickedness and downright blasphemy.

:lol:

Life is hard, but what a ride.

One problem I have with Daz Studio, is the plugins, because I find that
programmers can never write good technical manuals on how to use
the programs they write.  Not Ever!   Therefore, the only way this works
out well is with a software that is popular enough that a real technical writer
can write a book that will have an audience.   Poser has that.
The one book that was written for Daz isn't very good.

Next, it's only any good if the person writing the code is really really professional,
and really knows what they are doing. You tend to get that when the company
sellign the main software is the one putting most of the functionality in there.
If you get some semi-professional out there writing a plugin, there is more
likelihood of problems.  So another problems I see with Daz is this business
of relying on third party semi-professionals.
 
I've already had this problem with two Daz plugins: Faceshop 5 and Folder Favorites.

I have both Poser 8 and Daz studio with animate 2. I may use Daz studio for a few things,
but dang, it's so much better to have consistent code and good instruction.

:sigh:

See, Tyler knows how to raise a legitimate issue with DAZ Studio. He doesn't just yell and rant about how DAZ wants all of our money or because it doesn't work well for him, it's crap. My issue isn't with people like him, it's with people who don't like products simply because DAZ made them. I'd have the same problem with anyone saying that Poser 9 will be awful just because Smith Micro makes it.

SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Yes BEWARE all you nasty little Daz haters! For we know the secret reason of your heart for not liking that last Daz product.  You see God knows the hearts of men, and some of us at Daz do too. So all ye Daz haters, be afraid, be very afraid. Speak out against a Daz product and we shall label you a Daz hater, and woe be upon your head!   :lol:

Life is hard, but what a ride.

Dunt da da da!

Charge!

Into the fray we go
with Larry, Curly and Moe

Upon our trusty steeds
To smite the wrong with deeds

Slashing left and right
We are really such a fright

In to smash the foe
Oh my, where did they go?

I could swear they were right there
now they don"t seem to be anywhere.

Well then back to castle Daz
where we may obsess, twitch and spaz

Da dumb da da da
Da dumb da da da

Gonna get them little Daz haters
Gonna make them squeeeal those little Daz haters
Gonna make a meeeal of them little Daz haters

Da dumb da da da
Da dumb da da da

We'll get em
We'll spit em
Then we're gonna frit em

(gee I wonder if there are really any Daz haters, if this might just be the way they are created?)

Hope you enjoyed the show with Larry, Curley and Moe.

Just a little ditty from the orange kitty

gotta go.

:lol:

Life is hard, but what a ride.

I'm a girl!

Do people have their brains removed when they sign up to the Daz forum? FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!! I've just seen a thread over there asking for picture Rendered in REALITY!!!!!!! IT DOESN'T RENDER ANYTHING!!!!

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Well, at least the one being used is 'Made with Reality".  A little better than the outright lie of "Rendered in Reality".  It really should be 'Exported by Reality", but I guess that isn't as impressive.

Quote - FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!! I've just seen a thread over there asking for picture Rendered in REALITY!!!!!!! IT DOESN'T RENDER ANYTHING!!!!

There is no thread asking for pictures rendered in Reality. There is however a thread asking for renders using Reality.

Quote - Do people have their brains removed when they sign up to the Daz forum?

Apparently no more so than here.......

Coldrake

Lol I guess I deserve that. :)

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1

Quote - Do people have their brains removed when they sign up to the Daz forum? FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!! I've just seen a thread over there asking for picture Rendered in REALITY!!!!!!! IT DOESN'T RENDER ANYTHING!!!!

The were asking for the Rendered in Daz Studio watermark.  Considering DS is available free it's not that unreasonable.   But to pay for the privilege of advertising Reality is amusing to say the least :)   Would you pay me 50 bucks so  you can walk around all day with a "Eat at Joe's" sign?

Please don't reply to that one anymore, I was having a bad day yesterday & should have stayed away from forums everywhere.

Windows 7 64Bit
Poser Pro 2010 SR1