I am a space Alien- when may our representatives meet with Divine Ralphie? Should we bring any chew toys?

   Xrrriptbleep signing off...

Ah! Sorry, dang tentacled alien took over my computer- I HATE that!

Quote - I have no problem with aliens - some of my best friends are undocumented.

Ralphie

Quote - I consider it to be defamatory to say Jesus isn't God. That's in the TOS is it not? No Defamatory statements?

I'm not aware of any religion that believes Jesus is God.
AIUI, the Christian belief is that Jesus was the son of God, and that others consider him just another prophet.
If you're going to be offended by something, do try and complain about something that a) somebody posting in the thread actually said and b) has some basis in reality.

 The "Defamatory Statements" clause of the TOS is designed to protect the currently living, or, by some very far reaches, those who may be recently deceased but their estates are very touchy/sue-happy.  As, according to historical documentation, Christ would have passed around 2K years ago, the clause doesn't fit.
Renderosity is NOT a religious site, therefore we do not recognize one religion as "the right one" over another.  The beauty of the human race is its diversity, and the ability of diverse people to come together DESPITE personal differences.  This is something that we celebrate with pride.  And are happy to showcase the ideals of all points of view (within the limits of the law).  It may not seem as such sometimes, but we are working hard to make sure our decisions do not censor our membership.

Quote - The beauty of the human race is its diversity, and the ability of diverse people to come together DESPITE personal differences.  This is something that we celebrate with pride.  And are happy to showcase the ideals of all points of view (within the limits of the law).  It may not seem as such sometimes, but we are working hard to make sure our decisions do not censor our membership.

"As someone who believes in the divinity of Christ, I couldn't just watch while someone knocked it based on feeble reasoning, I don't mind that Paul's writings are knocked"***

John 14:28
Jesus states:
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

Why would the Lord of the universe go "to himself"and declare the he is greater than himself???

John 10:29
Jesus states "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."

Curious if he is GOD himself why does he need to be given anything anyone in need of ANYTHING is a created being and can NOT be GOD the creator.
**
Mark 13:4**
A person asks Jesus about some future events  he foretold from Divine revelation from Allah(the one true GOD)
"Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?"

Jesus replies in Mark 13:32
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Curious So "GOD" in supposed human form who is creator of time but not Subject to it,
GOD who Knows the outcome of ALL things
tells a man he does not know about the Hour??,

You see Everything was NOT revealed to ALLAH'S messengers.

Jabril ( Gabriel) once Came the Allah's Final Prophet
Muhammad ,and asked him "when is the day of Judgement??"

Muhammad Gave an answer similar to the Nobel son of Maryam( Mary)  Isa ( Jesus )

Muhammad told Jabril( Gabriel)
"the one who is being asked this question knows no more about the matter than the one who is asking it."

No offense but No new testament Trinitarian has ever been able to show
a me clear statement from the Noble Son of Mary,
( May the peace and blessing of ALLAH be upon him)

where he (Jesus)claimed he was GOD incarnate and the men should worship and pray to him.

Jesus  IS the Messiah His birth as a Miracle From ALLAH
and his  belief in his return is a requirement of faith for ALL
Muslims.

but he is NOT the creator of the heavens or part of some three part  trifecta for as
Deuteronomy 6:4 States CLEARLY:
 Or The LORD our God is one LORD; or The LORD is our God, the LORD is one ; or The LORD is our God, the LORD alone.

Cheers

An Atheist ???  Les, I thought you were a true believer !!

I'm going upstairs to chew a few shoes.

Ralphie

That is a beautiful dog!

... er, a beautiful picture of a beautiful dog!

 I would like to post YET ANOTHER reminder that this is not a thread for debate on who's faith is more wrong.  If any wish to have that debate with another member, please take it to sitemail.  

by definition,  God, Jesus, Angels, devil, are all extra terrestrial, as in not of this Earth,  but beyond. So there is nothing ingenious in the arguments.

I've always been of the thought that aliens would just pass us by IF they existed due to how screwed up things are here.

As a Born Again Christian I have to respect and agree with wolf359 on most of what he said though.  Also LostInSpaceMan made some good points too.

I would think aliens would be included in His plan as He did create life, the universe, everything!!  Aliens would just have a different name for Him, the creator of our universe is the creator of their (the aliens) universe so it's all the same in the end!!

But I still doubt the existence of ET's and whatnot!!

I shouldn't post anything before my morning coffee!!!!!

Gerard

Quote - > Quote - I've never understood why atheists defend "nothing" as if it were a something.

And I never understood why religious people defend "nothing" as if it were a something. So I guess we are in a strange sort of agreement there!

Quote - I can see a religion urging its adherents to go out and convert, but why do atheists even care?

 

Because it is good to care about things, about the truth, about people, about the world we live in. Caring is life enhancing, and if you care about the right things it can make the world a better place. I think that even many religious people would agree on that point.

If I worship something that does not exist then you have a point.  If I attribute qualities to something, whether it is the sun or the wind or the cosmic cycle of death and rebirth, and worship that thing, then not so much. 

Atheists seem to always associate the most ridiculous ideas with faith, such as assuming that people pray to an old bearded man on a cloud to save them from a red guy with a pointy tail, simply because that's how one group of people illustrated scripture for a time.  Then, because such an idea is so easy to dismiss, they can't understand how anyone else could ever believe in anything.    

Religious people base their faith on something, be it a personal experience, sense of wonder, link to ancestry, etc.  Certainly any of those things could be dispelled by pure reason.  I just don't understand, when a person looks around and finds no obvious god, what compels that person to assert with any certainty god did/does/will/can not exist. 

I agree that it is good to care, but that is only my assumption based on certain other faiths.  I can't prove that other people's experiences are as valid as my own, that their concerns are as important as my own, or even that objective truth somehow trumps subjective truths - these are  just things I assume to be so.  Ideas like truth and caring seem self defeating in a universe with no larger purpose.  If truth and caring become reasons for doing something in their own right, they would be little different than my notion of what god is.

Quote - by definition,  God, Jesus, Angels, devil, are all extra terrestrial, as in not of this Earth,  but beyond. So there is nothing ingenious in the arguments.

That's a way of looking at it, though a metaphysical god would literally be neither here nor there.

These aliens that so many people believe in, the ones that abduct people, mark the earth, and occasionally move through the sky, just sound to me to be the modern take on the same things people have described since antiquity.  Perhaps they are actually sub-terrestrial beings who have been here all along.  Until they say where they are from, space doesn't seem to me the most likely answer.

Quote -  

Atheists seem to always associate the most ridiculous ideas with faith, such as assuming that people pray to an old bearded man on a cloud to save them from a red guy with a pointy tail, simply because that's how one group of people illustrated scripture for a time.  Then, because such an idea is so easy to dismiss, they can't understand how anyone else could ever believe in anything.    

I don't presume to know how people of faith think. I ask you to extend the same courtesy to Atheists.

www.ewtn.com  <- has been broadcasting for awhile now so aliens within 20-30 ly of earth may have heard of Jesus.  Likewise if reports of UFOs are true then the aliens visiting earth could have heard of him as well.

This issue has been brought up before here on earth because since Christianity started out in the mediterranian areas people who lived before him or after him in areas that had no idea about him would have been effected by the answer to this question.  One specific case is the early attempts to convert Japan, where a lot of people engaged in ancestor worship found it difficult to convert because they were scared that their ancestors may have been in hell.  

According to Bill O'riely (not a church official by any means) and presumably some other catholics Baptism by Desire would come into play here... basically if a person who's never heard of Jesus has realized that he has sinned (through love or reason) and repents for it, that might be enough to grant him a baptism of sorts.

Another thing to consider is that it is plausible that Jesus has appeared in every culture that has sustained intelligent life who's society has gotten to a certain stage. 

There is a tribe recently found in a remote are of Brazil, they have existed in complete isolation from all civilazation throughout history. They recently sighted an airplane and erected monuments to worhip it as a craft of the Gods, like we did in Sumeria, Lumeria, Egypt etc. with saucer spacecraft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foO4b1cU9ug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFaDk0Lxg2k

Question?- Has they're entire history of their generations been condemed to "hell" because the've never heard of Jesus? This is a relevant question seeing there is a mission to bring Christianity to these people now.
Also, The apocrypha books of Christ state that we are all children of the prime creator , not just him and all have his abilities if the belief is amplified.

Now , if aliens exist. Well its never been a question of if they actually exist. Its do you lack the fear and doubt to embrace the truth and expand your conciousness, or do you find comfort in fear, control and a manufactured reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNGngZsxAhw

Full UFO disclosure September 27 2010 from the Whitehouse, National Press Club, aired live on CNN.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8-8696Yo3A&feature=related

Religion was created to control mankind mentally and spiritually. Hell is a reincarnating cycle of lives void of love until you learn to embrace unconditional love and shed fear and doubt to merge back into the source creator enlightened by experiance.
Are we alone in this process?..We never have been ,only the truth has been manipulated and covered up to accumulate power and control.

10/10/10 the Eye of Horus will be allowed to open for all who seek enlightenment from this point on. Trust your inner voice and discern the positive from the negative. Love all Unconditionaly...even if they are not from this planet.

Do you like my space travel goggles?

Ralphie

Quote - > Quote -  

Atheists seem to always associate the most ridiculous ideas with faith, such as assuming that people pray to an old bearded man on a cloud to save them from a red guy with a pointy tail, simply because that's how one group of people illustrated scripture for a time.  Then, because such an idea is so easy to dismiss, they can't understand how anyone else could ever believe in anything.    

 

I don't presume to know how people of faith think. I ask you to extend the same courtesy to Atheists.

QFT

Quote - > Quote -  

Atheists seem to always associate the most ridiculous ideas with faith, such as assuming that people pray to an old bearded man on a cloud to save them from a red guy with a pointy tail, simply because that's how one group of people illustrated scripture for a time.  Then, because such an idea is so easy to dismiss, they can't understand how anyone else could ever believe in anything.    

 

I don't presume to know how people of faith think. I ask you to extend the same courtesy to Atheists.

I said "seem to", as this has been my experience with people calling themselves atheist.  I did not mean to sound as if I presume all atheists would do that.  Was just trying to point out that it always seemed to be the anthropomorphic/personal aspects of deity that atheists reject, even though many people of faith would question such accounts too.  

Quote - There is a tribe recently found in a remote are of Brazil, they have existed in complete isolation from all civilazation throughout history. They recently sighted an airplane and erected monuments to worhip it as a craft of the Gods, like we did in Sumeria, Lumeria, Egypt etc. with saucer spacecraft.

See -> Cargo Cult.
This is the premise underlying the StarGate series.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clarke
See also the first two of Clarke's laws -> http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Clarke's_three_laws

Unfortunately nothing like the Babel fish has cropped up yet, so the possibility that God exists is still there.

Quote -  The "Defamatory Statements" clause of the TOS is designed to protect the currently living, or, by some very far reaches, those who may be recently deceased but their estates are very touchy/sue-happy.  As, according to historical documentation, Christ would have passed around 2K years ago, the clause doesn't fit.

As far as Christ is concerned, Christians believe that He IS alive.

Tom Araya, bass player, catholic and vocalist for the trash metal band Slayer (whose whims all mortals must obey)  says that God hates us all.  Therefore God must hate aliens and condemn them to everlasting damnation as well.  That's right, everything I learned from theology, I learned it from Slayer lyrics. So to be absolutely clear, both bass players and aliens alike shall go to hell, unless they belong to a death metal band called the "Slayer". 

Wow, so many interesting responses.  If I stay up all night reading, I won't be able to get up for  work tomorrow.  LOL.  Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts on the matter.

You know, the word atheist doesn't really describe those of us who devote zero time or effort thinking about theology. We need a new label. ;)  It's not that we actively disbelieve, it's that we don't consider it at all.  

Attached Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheism

An atheist is simply someone who is not a theist.  They are not anti-theist.  Just atheist.  They don't know about God (or Gods), and they don't hate those that do know about God (or Gods).

Those that do have a problem though with theists are not atheists.  For they do believe in something.  Just not God.  They believe in things such as celebrities and/or governments to tell them how to live and make choices for them.  They know about God, but choose to reject him.  They feel they are smarter and that there are far more superior/intellectual things to believe in.

But they are not atheists.  It's hard to be an atheist.  Because everyone believes in something if not God.  Everyone.

The real misconception is that atheists are anti-God, and thus sinners and not decent people. I certainly do not hate God or the good things that religion tries to teach and instill in people, I just do not believe in the existence of an Almighty being. However, I'm not an agnostic either (a person who believes we cannot know whether or not there is a God) or someone without an opinion on the subject; I very strongly believe that there is not a higher power or that religious texts hold the only truth. Not that I wouldn't like to think that there is a benevolent master and His angels watching over us, but I just believe we need to work with what we have here on Earth.

SnowS

Quote - As far as Christ is concerned, Christians believe that He IS alive.

Fine I have no desire to argue that point, but if he is alive, then it's up to him whether he wants to sue for deformation or not. Unless he has given you power of attorney,  would it not be presumptuous of you to launch a case without his permission?

Quote - I just don't understand, when a person looks around and finds no obvious god, what compels that person to assert with any certainty god did/does/will/can not exist.

Well I hope you don't ascribe that view to me. I don't believe in God, but that's just my opinion. I am a human being and that makes me fallible, just like any other human (except the Pope, LOL). There is always the possibility that any of us may be wrong in what we believe, perhaps the biggest sin of all is not to admit that! That said, there is nothing wrong with having strong beliefs, and fighting your corner for those beliefs, so long as you are always prepared to review what you believe in the light of the best available evidence.

I don't believe in God because I have never come a cross a convincing argument for his (her? its?) existence, or seen any evidence that would convince me of such existence. What I have seen a lot of evidence for is some people using the word and concept of "God" to manipulate, control, and wield power over others.

All that said, there are many different concepts of what the word "God" means, and of who or what God is. I'm sure I have not come across all of them yet. So perhaps one day I will come across a concept of God that strikes me as true. That day has not yet come, but if I wake in the morning and find my slippers chewed to pieces, I would see it as strong evidence for the existence of the Great Ralphie. 

Quote -
Do you like my space travel goggles?

Ralphie

They don't make your nose look big at all ;)

Quote - > Quote - I just don't understand, when a person looks around and finds no obvious god, what compels that person to assert with any certainty god did/does/will/can not exist.

Well I hope you don't ascribe that view to me. I don't believe in God, but that's just my opinion.

And I would be the last person to ever hold that against you.

I think I have the same problem with atheists that they have with me...  It's not the idea don't like, it's the certainty of it.  Truth be known, on most days I'm simply "agnostic".   

I would've thought any species advanced to nip across the galaxy would be intelligent enough to do away with the backwards notion of any religion.

Unless of couse they all worship the Huge Pink Elephant called the Great Ralphie :)

Quote - > Quote - As far as Christ is concerned, Christians believe that He IS alive.

Fine I have no desire to argue that point, but if he is alive, then it's up to him whether he wants to sue for deformation or not. Unless he has given you power of attorney,  would it not be presumptuous of you to launch a case without his permission?

Les, that really isn't my point and I'm not here to argue my beliefs are better or worse than anyone elses. My ONLY Point is that discussions on religion are going to ALWAYS be contentious and defamatory to one person or another simply because of the nature of the beast that is "Faith". Whether anyone agrees with my faith or not was never my point.

And whether you or JenX want to consider this topic defamatory or not is also a moot point. Anytime religion is brought up in a forum that isn't meant for such discussions, It is just blatant trolling. This too is against the TOS. If you can't see that asking if Aliens should be required to accept Christ isn't someone's idea of taking a stick and poking it into an anthill, you're just willfully blind.

"As far as Christ is concerned, Christians believe that He IS alive"

Yes The Nobel,miraculously born ,SON OF MARY is alive and with his Lord ALLAH Who will eventually return him to us.

Cheers

Hm. There seems to be far too many religions and gods around, and far too many believing in them.

Lord Zanu the Omnificent will not be pleased.

Quote - I would've thought any species advanced to nip across the galaxy would be intelligent enough to do away with the backwards notion of any religion.

Just like any aliens capable of space travel must be friendly, see -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Attacks!

Someone once said something very smart:

"For 2000 years ago Jesus said we all should take care and love each other. We have spent the last 2000 years fighting over how he said it"

A little thought; I once saw a docementery about life, space and dna. And the chemical part that build all lifes dna struktur on this planet is very common material in space. The people who made the documentery was talking about that life on this planet was possible thanks to a lot of astroids (stone7rocks from space) that rained over the planet when it was very young, and by that way gave the base material for life to form. So if this is true, then we can say that we all are aliens, since we all long, long ago come from space :)

And who knows, maybe this life aint a true life, maybe its just an illusion...and I think a lot of ppl spend a lot of time thinking about lots of things - insteed of living the life (me included)

People seem to misunderstand or mis-use the word agnostic to mean folks undecided about the existence of god(s). My understanding of the word is that it refers to people who don't believe there is any point to arguing or much thinking about the existence of god(s) since by definition the existance or nature of such beings would be unknowable. Kind of like discussing what heaven smells like with somone who hasn't ever died... might be fun but no real practical point to it.

 The Fermi paradox states that there is an "apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations and the lack of evidence for, or contact with, such civilizations."

Wow! Did Fermi actually suggest that? Kinda like saying that there is an "apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of big screen TVs on earth and the lack of evidence for, or contact with, such big screen TVs observable on or from the moon."

whilst fermi was a clever chap, partially responsible for the a-bombs now in the hands of
nations associated with terrorism, certain data were not available to him in his era:

• if the probability of space-faring civilizations in this galaxy is .000001
• if the mean distance between them is around 50 - 150 light-years
• excluding 10,000 light-years from galactic core, which is also lethal, even on planets
• neither they nor humans can survive interstellar travel
• neither they nor humans can produce a directed communication beam of sufficient power

hence it's not a paradox, any more than the usual aristotelian fallacies propagated by superstition
and whatever else they were mis-taught in grammar school.

Quote - This too is against the TOS. If you can't see that asking if Aliens should be required to accept Christ isn't someone's idea of taking a stick and poking it into an anthill, you're just willfully blind.

It does not really matter matter what motives were behind the boy asking "Why is the Emperor naked?". The important thing is that the question was asked!

Acrionx's question is a good one, because it forces people to think, to organise their ideas, to question their beliefs, and to argue out the consequences of each side of the case in their own minds. Thinking makes some people nervous, but just like physical exercise it is good for you, even if you don't always enjoy it at the time. The search for truth is nothing to fear. It is a good thing!

A true belief only benefits from being questioned, as in thinking about the question we may learn more about why the belief is true. On the other hand People who fear that their beliefs may be false, hate questions, because they are more interested in maintaining the belief, than in finding the truth.

Non-theist. I like that. g Atheist has been too policitized.

Something must be lacking in me: I really don't believe in anything. Nada. Zilch. Zip. A professor of mine once said "We all just muddle through as best we can", and he was right. Some of us muddle more convincingly, but muddle just the same. Politicians are perhaps the most transparent muddlers.

On the other hand, anything is possible: deities, ghosts, aliens, magic, M theory, a social system that is actually functional, yeti.... who knows for sure? shrug  

Unless someone clicked on this topic by mistake, I don't think anyone reading this thread has any valid expectation not to disagree with what it may contain...

(I personally find it just a little offensive when people jokingly refer to things (pets/possessions) as if they are "god" to mock those who have sincere belief in such things.  If you think your dog is god, well that's just great.  But I can't help suspecting that you do not actually think that...) 

Back to the topic...  If aliens do show up someday, what effect would their beliefs have on ours?  If you are an atheist and the aliens show up proclaiming the existence of a "god" or "gods", would you wonder if they might know something you do not?  If you are a person of faith and the aliens show up and claim that they have not believed in a god or gods for some time (or ever for that matter) would that make you question your faith?

" If you are an atheist and the aliens show up proclaiming the existence of a "god" or "gods", would you wonder if they might know something you do not?"

If they had some sort of proof, yes. It wouldn't take aliens, I'd be satisfied with my fellow humans being able to provide some concrete evidence.

"If you are a person of faith and the aliens show up and claim that they have not believed in a god or gods for some time (or ever for that matter) would that make you question your faith?"

Based on the religious and faithful that I've encountered, no.    ;)

Quote - I'm pretty sure I'm a pattern in an incredibly gigantic cellular automaton and so are all of you as well as the aliens. I don't see how that helps but I had to say it.

dammit baggins why are you always right : )
(he is you know)

i love these threads!

not that that is to say there is no god.  wherever we look the universe gets bigger.  (and smaller)  it seems to me as ridiculous to say there is no god as to say that one particular group knows what god wants.

i like m theory a lot too

as for aliens i imagine that they are here, but probably not in flying saucers or whatever.  they may be meddling with our civilization.  why not?  we can talk about power issues and time it takes to get to places, but technology makes the impossible possible.  for instance, the time it takes to get to another star can be daunting considering the laws of physics as we know it.  however, communication could take place on a quantum scale between identities at instantaneous speed throughout the universe.  so an agent can be planted anywhere in the universe and communicate with a sending agent at it's home territory in real time.  seemingly faster than light, yet the entanglement of the particles will make this a reality.
i find it obvious that we, as all things, are information, and will be readily reproduced, pretty damned soon too.  and civilization even 100 years ahead of ours should have the capacity to do pretty much whatever we're talking about here.

what will we think about what they know?  some of us will undoubtably agree with anything they say.  some will dislike everything they say.  but they'll probably be just as dumb and lost as we are.

Quote - I don't see any point in locking it until someone becomes rude.  It says "OT" and is very clear about what is inside.

I am offended by the stifling of ideas.  Locking this thread would offend me. ;)

amen