End User License Agreement...those pesky things you agree to when you install/use software.

Sorry...I can't help but be sarcastic. No one in their right mind - especially someone who makes things to sell, is going to ignore a EULA.

Well, the ruffled dress I made is multi layer, I think. The ruffles are a seperate OBJ alltogether. To keep the attached, I had to make them a Soft Decorated Group tho. That's also how I made the pocket on the orange robe I did for M4. It's a seperate OBJ made into a soft decorated group. I don't know if that's how it's supposed to be done, but it worked for me. You can do multiple layers by also adding additional clothes and running more than 1 cloth simulation, making each collide with the clothes underneath it. That's just what I've found in experimenting around. If the multi-layered garment is all in 1 obj tho, I would say cloth self-colision, and the 3 other check boxes would be the key to get it working.

Quote - what is eula?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_license_agreement

lmk

Quote - End User License Agreement...those pesky things you agree to when you install/use software.

Sorry...I can't help but be sarcastic. No one in their right mind - especially someone who makes things to sell, is going to ignore a EULA.

but in the OBJ there is no information that its from MD. the mesh looks like it was made with 3ds max.

That's how I did the peplum...yep ;o). Separate object, but still part of the same prop. I had problems with SD groups tearing off from the mesh during a sim when they were part of the same mesh.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - End User License Agreement...those pesky things you agree to when you install/use software.

Sorry...I can't help but be sarcastic. No one in their right mind - especially someone who makes things to sell, is going to ignore a EULA.

but in the OBJ there is no information that its from MD. the mesh looks like it was made with 3ds max.

no offense, but I'm going to ignore this now ;o).

Laurie

Quote - Well, the ruffled dress I made is multi layer, I think. The ruffles are a seperate OBJ alltogether. To keep the attached, I had to make them a Soft Decorated Group tho. That's also how I made the pocket on the orange robe I did for M4. It's a seperate OBJ made into a soft decorated group. I don't know if that's how it's supposed to be done, but it worked for me. You can do multiple layers by also adding additional clothes and running more than 1 cloth simulation, making each collide with the clothes underneath it. That's just what I've found in experimenting around. If the multi-layered garment is all in 1 obj tho, I would say cloth self-colision, and the 3 other check boxes would be the key to get it working.

this is how ILM,pixar,WETA,.... are doing cloth simulation.  

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - End User License Agreement...those pesky things you agree to when you install/use software.

Sorry...I can't help but be sarcastic. No one in their right mind - especially someone who makes things to sell, is going to ignore a EULA.

but in the OBJ there is no information that its from MD. the mesh looks like it was made with 3ds max.

no offense, but I'm going to ignore this now ;o).

Laurie

i just want to understand this. i dont want any trouble. i really dont.  

is the software worth 700? everyone on the CGI forums says that its not. that its worth around 100-200$.

if you pay 99$ and model a shirt and then sell it do you steel?

Quote - > Quote - Well, the ruffled dress I made is multi layer, I think. The ruffles are a seperate OBJ alltogether. To keep the attached, I had to make them a Soft Decorated Group tho. That's also how I made the pocket on the orange robe I did for M4. It's a seperate OBJ made into a soft decorated group. I don't know if that's how it's supposed to be done, but it worked for me. You can do multiple layers by also adding additional clothes and running more than 1 cloth simulation, making each collide with the clothes underneath it. That's just what I've found in experimenting around. If the multi-layered garment is all in 1 obj tho, I would say cloth self-colision, and the 3 other check boxes would be the key to get it working.

this is how ILM,pixar,WETA,.... are doing cloth simulation.  

Cool, so I'm NOT crazy :o)

sigh...

Legally ice-boy, you cannot use the $99 version and sell anything you derive from it. It's against the EULA. Therefore, if you use the $99 version to make things that you sell (and in the case of this software, perhaps even for stuff you give away for free as well), you are breaking the law.

Whether or not it's worth what they're charging is not up to us. The fact remains that you must buy the commercial version to make things to sell. If you don't think it's worth the money, the only way you have of objecting to the price is not to buy it or use it. Period.

Laurie

May I ask you one thing?I made some dynamic clothes but don't know exactly how to use the soft decorated or hard decorated groups...in which cases do you use them?for buttons?and constrained groups,do you use them to attach parts of the cloth to the figures,like belts?

And you make the groups selecting polygons?

Thanks a lot!

Quote - May I ask you one thing?I made some dynamic clothes but don't know exactly how to use the soft decorated or hard decorated groups...in which cases do you use them?for buttons?and constrained groups,do you use them to attach parts of the cloth to the figures,like belts?

And you make the groups selecting polygons?

Thanks a lot!

Soft-decorated is used for things you add to the clothing, but something that you want to fold and have movement while still keeping it's basic shape, like pockets, button plackets, belts, etc.

Rigid is used for things that you want to move with the underlying fabric, but that you want to hold it's shape, like a belt buckle, a button, etc.

Constrained is for things that you want to follow the basic way the cloth moves, but not move from it's spot. You'd use this for wide necklines that would otherwise slip off during a simulation, spaghetti straps, or anything you want to hold in place where it is.

Hope that helps.

edit: as for adding groups, I just make each thing I want to be a separate dynamic group in my modeler by making it a material. You can add them then to the simulation by chosing Add Material when you set things up for the simulation in the sim's group editor.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - May I ask you one thing?I made some dynamic clothes but don't know exactly how to use the soft decorated or hard decorated groups...in which cases do you use them?for buttons?and constrained groups,do you use them to attach parts of the cloth to the figures,like belts?

And you make the groups selecting polygons?

Thanks a lot!

Soft-decorated is used for things you add to the clothing, but something that you want to fold and have movement while still keeping it's basic shape, like pockets, button plackets, belts, etc.

Rigid is used for things that you want to move with the underlying fabric, but that you want to hold it's shape, like a belt buckle, a button, etc.

Constrained is for things that you want to follow the basic way the cloth moves, but not move from it's spot. You'd use this for wide necklines that would otherwise slip off during a simulation, spaghetti straps, or anything you want to hold in place where it is.

Hope that helps.

edit: as for adding groups, I just make each thing I want to be a separate dynamic group in my modeler by making it a material. You can add them then to the simulation by chosing Add Material when you set things up for the simulation in the sim's group editor.

Laurie

Thank you very very much,very helpful!

Laurie has explained it as good as anyone could. The M4 robe on the previous page of this thread has the pocket as a soft decorated, and the buttons are a rigid decorated group. I plan on making more detailed clothing, so grouping is going to start playing a big role in that.

Quote - sigh...

Legally ice-boy, you cannot use the $99 version and sell anything you derive from it. It's against the EULA. Therefore, if you use the $99 version to make things that you sell (and in the case of this software, perhaps even for stuff you give away for free as well), you are breaking the law.

Whether or not it's worth what they're charging is not up to us. The fact remains that you must buy the commercial version to make things to sell. If you don't think it's worth the money, the only way you have of objecting to the price is not to buy it or use it. Period.

Laurie

ok then lets make it more ''legal'' heheheh ;)  

you create the cloth in Mervelous Designer.you export the OBJ to hexagon,blender,....

in the modeling software you retopologize the mesh. you create new faces. but you trace the mesh around the MarvelousDesigner.

voila

Quote - > Quote - sigh...

Legally ice-boy, you cannot use the $99 version and sell anything you derive from it. It's against the EULA. Therefore, if you use the $99 version to make things that you sell (and in the case of this software, perhaps even for stuff you give away for free as well), you are breaking the law.

Whether or not it's worth what they're charging is not up to us. The fact remains that you must buy the commercial version to make things to sell. If you don't think it's worth the money, the only way you have of objecting to the price is not to buy it or use it. Period.

Laurie

ok then lets make it more ''legal'' heheheh ;)  

you create the cloth in Mervelous Designer.you export the OBJ to hexagon,blender,....

in the modeling software you retopologize the mesh. you create new faces. but you trace the mesh around the MarvelousDesigner.

 

voila

Not exactly legal either. You STILL used Marvelous Designer...get it? Ok, I am done now. Back to the thread...

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - sigh...

Legally ice-boy, you cannot use the $99 version and sell anything you derive from it. It's against the EULA. Therefore, if you use the $99 version to make things that you sell (and in the case of this software, perhaps even for stuff you give away for free as well), you are breaking the law.

Whether or not it's worth what they're charging is not up to us. The fact remains that you must buy the commercial version to make things to sell. If you don't think it's worth the money, the only way you have of objecting to the price is not to buy it or use it. Period.

Laurie

ok then lets make it more ''legal'' heheheh ;)  

you create the cloth in Mervelous Designer.you export the OBJ to hexagon,blender,....

in the modeling software you retopologize the mesh. you create new faces. but you trace the mesh around the MarvelousDesigner.

 

voila

and that's called "derivative work" and will get you in trouble.

whats so hard to understand? if you buy the $99 you agree with the company not to use it for commercial work. if you then break that agreement, they have grounds to take you to court.

Do you Iceboy understand that? has it sunk in yet? we've repeated it now enough times.

now. One! more! Time!

" if you buy the $99 you agree with the company not to use it for commercial work. if you then break that agreement, they have grounds to take you to court."

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - sigh...

Legally ice-boy, you cannot use the $99 version and sell anything you derive from it. It's against the EULA. Therefore, if you use the $99 version to make things that you sell (and in the case of this software, perhaps even for stuff you give away for free as well), you are breaking the law.

Whether or not it's worth what they're charging is not up to us. The fact remains that you must buy the commercial version to make things to sell. If you don't think it's worth the money, the only way you have of objecting to the price is not to buy it or use it. Period.

Laurie

ok then lets make it more ''legal'' heheheh ;)  

you create the cloth in Mervelous Designer.you export the OBJ to hexagon,blender,....

in the modeling software you retopologize the mesh. you create new faces. but you trace the mesh around the MarvelousDesigner.

 

voila

 

and that's called "derivative work" and will get you in trouble.

 

whats so hard to understand? if you buy the $99 you agree with the company not to use it for commercial work. if you then break that agreement, they have grounds to take you to court.

Do you Iceboy understand that? has it sunk in yet? we've repeated it now enough times.

no and no. noone wuld be able to sue me because there is no way to proof that i modeled (new mesh) the shape of the shirt based on Marvelous Designer shirt.

thats a fact

every shirt that you simulate will look different so there is no way to know.

EULAs in boxed versions are usually invalid in many European countries because you had no chance to read them before purchase. It may be different with downloaded software when you were presented with the EULA before store checkout.

However indeed it may be nearly impossible to prove that a specific mesh is a derivative of work created within the Marvelous Designer software. This is clearly a case of a nearly unenforcable EULA.

Either way you're not violating any copyright law or any other criminal law. It's a matter of civil law really. The only thing that may happen to you would be a civil lawsuit where a Korean company would be suing you in your home country... rrrrright.

Just my two cents. I am not suggesting how you should use the software ... or not.

Christian

so you admit in public you'll rip someone off? after you enter into an agreement with them?

classy. reaaaal classy.

if i would have the software and if i would use the MD shirt as a reference to model a t-shirt in blender then i would not rip off.

since it dont have the money i dont even have the software.

If Marvelous Designer were made for the DAZ Studio/Carara/Poser community, the cost would be laughably ridiculous, but apparently it can be used with many other rendering and animation programs, and so it might have a chance at being profitable.

Not to tread on the territory of the moderators, but there is another thread that discusses the use of this software with Poser, which might be more appropriate to continue this very interesting subject.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2816881There is also a Copyright and Ethics forum where the legal and moral issues involved with EULA agreements can be discussed.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showforum.php?forum_id=12395lmk

ok back on topic.

Larie when will you post renders?

Hmm...  Yes the multi layerd skirt could be soft decorated like you did (looks nice too), or separate simulations...   I am wondering how it would work to have it in the same object but with self collision?  

It would have the advantage of colliding with the rest of the skirt if she bends.. As soft decorated, the ruffles would just move through the dress..   

And yes Iceboy, don't ignore the EULA. :)

Quote - Hmm...  Yes the multi layerd skirt could be soft decorated like you did (looks nice too), or separate simulations...   I am wondering how it would work to have it in the same object but with self collision?  

It would have the advantage of colliding with the rest of the skirt if she bends.. As soft decorated, the ruffles would just move through the dress..   

And yes Iceboy, don't ignore the EULA. :)

I think BR means that the ruffles are part of the same object. I did the peplum on my dress the way he did and it's part of the same object, but a different group within the object (not welded). Soft decorated it does not fall thru the dress.

Laurie

Laurie is right. That's just the dress I have been working on, and the ruffles are not welded, otherwise they would pretty much fall to the floor if not for making them soft decorated.

Quote - Laurie is right. That's just the dress I have been working on, and the ruffles are not welded, otherwise they would pretty much fall to the floor if not for making them soft decorated.

Exactly the problem I was having...lol. Soft decorated parts can't be welded to the rest of the garment ;o).

Laurie

Quote - LOL...well, not all of us have the benefits of 3DS ;o). I don't have a program that will create those types of tris, although I do agree with you. I think those kinds of tris would be the ideal :o). I'm just not sure I have a modeler capable of tesselating them that way. And I don't have 700 bucks to blow on Marvelous Designer nor do I have 3000 bucks or however much 3DS costs as I'm sure MOST of us don't...lol. I have more frivolous things to spend my money on like food, shelter and car repairs :oP Laurie

My sentiments exactly. Additionally, time is another factor. So, the key is to keep it price-reasonable, and time-non-intensive. What I do like is the fact that there are those who don't try to capitalise on a unique idea: they price their product within a price range that I can reasonably save up for before a political administration change. These are few and far between, though...

Quote - My sentiments exactly. Additionally, time is another factor. So, the key is to keep it price-reasonable, and time-non-intensive. What I do like is the fact that there are those who don't try to capitalise on a unique idea: they price their product within a price range that I can reasonably save up for before a political administration change. These are few and far between, though...

I haven't done anything groundbreaking, but I do try to set my prices low enough that people won't mind paying for the item while still able to make a reasonable amount per model. I want to be able to give to the community while still having this hobby fund itself.

On another note though, since I am still not the best at making textures, ideas and design being the main issue, would anyone be interested in that blue dress / nightie with a few pre-made textures, but also a shader that you could enter any of your own seamless textures, but the shader would put the seam stitches in the right places no matter what texture you put it. I already have the node set-up worked out, just don't know how consumers would respond to that.

I bought the $99,- license of Marvelous Designer, and as far as I know they changed the EULA to admit commercial renders last monday. That's good enough for me, because I don't sell commercial clothing, but I from time to time I do "commercial" renders. But besides that it's a great program to use. I even joint a sewing pattern website to get some insight in making sewing patterns for marvelous designer. (I suddenly hear some blue oister bar music now)

To get the resulting obj into poser is a bit troublesome. I haven't been able to export a decent avatar from poser to marvelous designer, but I did with DAZ|studio, even with extra poses. I succeeded in exporting  obj-files of clothing from Marvelous Designer to D|S and exported those as poser-scaled obj's to poser. It works rather well in the cloth room.

If you're interested, read the new personal license information, or at least try out the trial-version, it's just a fun program to use.

I remember a couple of years ago, there was a freeware japanese program called teddy, which could be used for making dynamic clothes for a teddybear, I would liked to have such a program for poser, I also tried to import a V3 -model instead of the bear, but she was just too poly-heavy. Marvelous Designer works about the same way as this program, but can handle any model you like, and is far more sophisticated and advanced.

best regards,

Bopper.

Quote - I haven't done anything groundbreaking, but I do try to set my prices low enough that people won't mind paying for the item while still able to make a reasonable amount per model. I want to be able to give to the community while still having this hobby fund itself.

I was referring to modelling/development software, BR. Your products are very reasonably priced, and quite attractive too.

If you look at anything by PhilC or Dimension3D, the prices are well within the scope of the hobbyist, and their products do so much to flesh out Poser. And then you look at essentials like Matmatic and VSS which are free that I use every day, and weigh that against a $700 programme and you can't help but think that potentially Blender will come up with a plug-in for doing those 3DS-Max tris so you can create that sort of mesh.

Quote - > Quote - I haven't done anything groundbreaking, but I do try to set my prices low enough that people won't mind paying for the item while still able to make a reasonable amount per model. I want to be able to give to the community while still having this hobby fund itself.

I was referring to modelling/development software, BR. Your products are very reasonably priced, and quite attractive too.

If you look at anything by PhilC or Dimension3D, the prices are well within the scope of the hobbyist, and their products do so much to flesh out Poser. And then you look at essentials like Matmatic and VSS which are free that I use every day, and weigh that against a $700 programme and you can't help but think that potentially Blender will come up with a plug-in for doing those 3DS-Max tris so you can create that sort of mesh.

"that sort of mesh" is called Delaunay...lol. And I just found this thread at the Daz forums that shows you how to do it using any modeler and Sculptris!! :D

I'm a happy girl. I can still avoid Blender...lmao.

for interested parties: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=150804&view=next&sid=a945ae3ff3a5dfd44e735af34411e368&flatnum=1

Laurie

And for those of us odd birds who actually like Blender for some inexplicable, demented reason (might have something to do with the fact that I'm a nurse, hence masochistic :lol: ), there's this. Which you can use in this. With which you can ultimately achieve this, which this should help with.

When Laurie said "Delaunay" grey cells (under even greyer hair) finally stirred... I distinctly remember a conversation involving this method of triangulation {sigh}. Well, I do now.

LOL @ Robyn. Well, join the gray hair club and grey cells that stir less and less these days ;o).

Laurie

Quote - On another note though, since I am still not the best at making textures, ideas and design being the main issue, would anyone be interested in that blue dress / nightie with a few pre-made textures, but also a shader that you could enter any of your own seamless textures, but the shader would put the seam stitches in the right places no matter what texture you put it. I already have the node set-up worked out, just don't know how consumers would respond to that.

No comments? I was really looking forward to some input on that idea...

Quote - > Quote - On another note though, since I am still not the best at making textures, ideas and design being the main issue, would anyone be interested in that blue dress / nightie with a few pre-made textures, but also a shader that you could enter any of your own seamless textures, but the shader would put the seam stitches in the right places no matter what texture you put it. I already have the node set-up worked out, just don't know how consumers would respond to that.

 

No comments? I was really looking forward to some input on that idea...

Sorry BR...I don't comment on textures cause I make my own...lol.

Laurie

But it wasn't for a texture exactly, it's for a node setup that any texture can be plugged in, and the seams and stitches will still be there. So people won't have to make completely custom textures, just plug one in and let the nodes add the stitches.

BionicRooster

I for one am interested. I like to try my own textures on things. And, I like novel ideas that improve versitility.

LMK

This is a Delaunay (randomized tris) mesh using the Sculptris method I linked to above. It's not optimized and at the present is a little haphazard. I just wanted to get something that I could test ;o). I'll fine tune later. At present is about 27k polys. I'd like to bring that down a bit. I think I can and still have it drape well.

I think it drapes really nice. And I don't really see any shaded concave dimples. Just the usual stray crinkles which smooth out nicely with the smoothing morph brush. This image is unsmoothed and untouched tho.

gee, I love that velvet shader

Laurie

Laurie

Quote - And for those of us odd birds who actually like Blender for some inexplicable, demented reason (might have something to do with the fact that I'm a nurse, hence masochistic :lol: ), there's this. Which you can use in this. With which you can ultimately achieve this, which this should help with.

When Laurie said "Delaunay" grey cells (under even greyer hair) finally stirred... I distinctly remember a conversation involving this method of triangulation {sigh}. Well, I do now.

HALLELUJAH .  

so which link should i use now to generate those trinagles from my mesh?

will it also export UV's?

Laurie, when you triangulate in wings do you use the export option or the modeling option?

Quote - Laurie, when you triangulate in wings do you use the export option or the modeling option?

The modeling option...but not that it really matters...the triangulation is the same either way unless I'm missing something (which is entirely possible).

Laurie

you dont need to use wings to import it into Scultpris right?you an use other software right?

will it keep the UV's?

I compared your triangulated dress and the delanuay dress and they do look different, but I am actually not convinced that either of them looks -better- than the other...

I'm not convinced yet that it's worth using an extra application and work for yet...

you mean there's not much difference between triangulated and quads?

No I mean between regular triangulated and delanuay triangles.

oh ok.So it is best to have triangles over quads in dynamic clothes right?

That seems to be the consensus. Though I have used mostly quads in my clothes with quite good draping results.  

Personally I believe that other factors play in too, like where you put the most density of polygons (having it even over the clothing is not necessarily the best idea all the time)

But as mentioned earlier, I am planning to try out different forms of triangles in coming projects. :)