estherau opened this issue on Dec 06, 2010 · 91 posts
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:36 PM
this comic is done in poser without anime studio but people have told me that anime studio could be helpful for me. In these examples i've used olivier's art materials applied using shaderworks at runtimedna.
And then some postwork...
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:36 PM
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:42 PM
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:43 PM
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:43 PM
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:44 PM
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:45 PM
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:46 PM
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:46 PM
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:47 PM
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:48 PM
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:49 PM
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 9:51 PM
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
SickenlySweete posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 10:02 PM
you would need to render your 3d images as a pen and ink or toon pic to get this look. there is a tut here at rosity on how to do this, then the layout and word bubbles can be added in any paint program , i think there is even a free kit here in freestuff for the layouts.
estherau posted Mon, 06 December 2010 at 10:16 PM
aha - so that sort of look can be achieved in anime studio, where the original textures are incorporated.
And is the pen and ink part of the rendering or is it a postwork filter?
How does transparency affect it eg hair and eyelashes?
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
wolf359 posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 5:16 AM
Hi your desire to keep "the look" of your original Bitmap/transmapped textures in your comics is why they dont look very "tooned" IMHO they just appear to be Lightly filtered Standard poser4 renders
perhaps thats the look you are seeking though ,
Cheers
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 7:28 AM
no actually it is not. But something kind of close to this look. Maybe a bit like the daz studio toon renders perhaps?
I did buy the akvis thing you mentioned on a post once, but close up that wasn't quite right for me either. Nice look though.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
jerr3d posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 8:02 AM
You could try the demo of Anime Studio. However, in typical SM fashion there is no login on the demo download page, it takes you to a new register page instead. So I did not bother with it. I ended up buying Manga Studio from Amazon for $10 including shipping (!) during this holiday sale.
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 8:09 AM
You'll probably like Manga Studio because I think you are quite artistic.
I found too much painting was involved with it, but I did like the tones and nice panels.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
jerr3d posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 8:45 AM
Thanks Esther. Have you looked at Amazon's Anime Studio page. It goes into a lot of detail about the program. Seems like it's more suited to use it's characters though I have not tried that one.
bevans84 posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 4:02 PM
Here's an example of a raw Poser render using the script. If at all interested, I'd be honored to share my settings with you.
Earl
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 6:39 PM
that does look very nice, and I will be in touch!
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
Tashar59 posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 7:12 PM
Her is a quick PZ3 import and render into AS. You can vary things with resizing and changing the line and shader work. Also transmaps work as well. But as you can see. It is more a real toon render look and not the photoshop filter look that your looking for.
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 7:18 PM
It's quite nice too though looking at your render. what would be the work flow for doing that? Is it something that certain settings in AS could be made and then import with a click and render with another or is there more to it than that. Also I use a lot of HDRIs mapped to the free BB envirosphere dome in my scenes, do HDRIs render in AS?
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
Tashar59 posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 7:33 PM
You don't need your HDRI's. I used one light to set up the quick figure and saved the Pz3. Then just imported the Pz3 into AS. I don't think you even need to save that light. I saved another without the light to test later.
You don't need to use the envirosphere. Your working in your own studio. You can add whatever background/ forground images/layers/scenes you want.
I did not adjust anything with that render. It was just the plain Pz3 import and render, which took 2 seconds, maybe 3. It did take a minute to import the file. But I do have a big multi runtime.
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 7:35 PM
by hdri I mean I use them for scenes not lighting. eg a city or something can I map a spherical hdri in AS?
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
Tashar59 posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 7:50 PM
AS is a proper 2D studio. You would compare it to ToonBoom but at half the price with the same features. Not counting thier version which is used for many of the cartoons and animations you see on TV. The price of that is so high that they don't even give a price except direct call with sales.
So no. You would use the background/import image or create a complete 3D scene using Pz3/.obj imports. You could fake it a bit with a curved prop/.obj with the image on that.
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 7:51 PM
bevans84 I just looked up that D3D script and it is for mac as well as PC and it is on sale at the moment too. Does it do toon lines as well, I can't quite tell from the promo pics or your render, or is it only toon shading and you added the lines some other way? How are transmaps handled in it?
Is it quick and easy to use?
Love esther
** **
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 7:59 PM
Well I haven't got anime studio but from what you guys have all said it sounds like it is more of an animators tool and something for making really toony looking flat looking images, rather than my style of comic, but I may be wrong?
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 8:03 PM
bevans84 can you please show me how a whole scene might look?
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 8:21 PM
bevans84 how many clicks to toon a whole scene?
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
bevans84 posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 8:54 PM
Esther,
I have AS 7 Pro, and agree with Tashar in that, I'm not sure that's going to be what your looking for.
My render was standard poser, the lines were added by the script. You can also change the color or width of the lines, however the width will start smudging if you go too high in value. The script sets up the toon node in the material room (along with several other things) and doesn't interfere with transparancy or transmaps.
It also comes with pretty good documentation.
It's really hard to recommend something for toon renders, because it's so subjective. What looks good to me might not look good to you at all, or not be what you're looking for at all. It is fairly inexpensive, and I've gotten good use out of it.
bevans84 posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 8:54 PM
Quote - bevans84 how many clicks to toon a whole scene?
Love esther
Three, if you have your preset stored :-)
Open the script, click "Whole Scene", and click "OK"
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 9:20 PM
bevans84 I think I might just try it, as you say, it's not expensive. But could you please do one render of a whole scene for me?
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
bevans84 posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 9:21 PM
I added a couple figures from Daz Construction P5 and RDNA's Infinity cove with one of the Daz Environnment textures. Is this what you meant?
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 9:33 PM
yes, perfect.
Can you tell me if the underlying texures of skin and clothes etc are opreserved or does the skin get replaced by some sort of generic toon skin?
Love es
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
bevans84 posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 9:56 PM
Here's StoneMason's Back Alley.
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 9:57 PM
that looks good. Brilliant! Can the node tooning be easily switched off, say for the ground?
love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
bevans84 posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 10:03 PM
Yes, if it has it's own material zone.
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 10:07 PM
I think that I'll give it a try and see how I like it for quick and easy tooning.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Tue, 07 December 2010 at 11:58 PM
I bought the D3D script but probably no time to try it for the next 5/7
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
bevans84 posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 12:25 AM
Good luck with the script, I've been using it for over a year now and like it quite a bit.
Paloth posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 1:08 AM
I briefly examined a free version of Anime Studio when they were giving it away. It seemed to be intended for the creation of vector-based animation.
Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368
bagginsbill posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 1:15 AM
Quote - I briefly examined a free version of Anime Studio when they were giving it away. It seemed to be intended for the creation of vector-based animation.
That's how it started, but it has 3D objects now and imports Poser scenes directly. It actually comes with 3D objects as well now - lots of posable animals. I only learned that last bit myself in the last 24 hours. I got AS Pro yesterday because I'm working on enhancements to the library GUI for it. The Poser and AS library windows are the same app now. Note that although I have AS now, I don't know how to use it. But I suppose I will over time. Too bad I have no interest whatsoever in tooning. grin
In the Poser 9 wishlist thread, Esther had suggested proper tooning in Poser. In that thread I pointed out that AS is the tooning app for Poser. In that thread I linked to a video demonstrating it.
Then she rightly posted this thread asking for more info about it.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Tashar59 posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 1:35 AM
AS is a full 2d animation studio. As I said earlier, it rivals Toonboom. AS used to be called MOHO and was featured and linked by ToonBoom site. It has since grown to a very good animation studio for both vector and traditional. Now object support as well at half the price as ToonBoom. I use both as I do a lot of 2D animation.
Paloth posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 1:36 AM
I'm not into tooning, but Poser compatibility is probably a good marketing decision.
Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368
estherau posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 5:12 AM
bevans84, thanks so much for those settings which I'm sure will help enormousl. , I saw two apply buttons but I presume it's the apply button on the left part, so I'm rendering right now.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 5:23 AM
and thanks very much BB for helping too and giving me some other ideas to think about (still considering AS too)
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 5:47 AM
bevans84, I surehope I'll be able to get the people to cast shadows. didn't see any in that sample render of yours.
Trying to toon now, but not successfully as yet. I tried your settings but I must be doing something wrong as the render just looks like a normal render.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
bevans84 posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 6:45 AM
Are you checking "Whole Scene" in the bottom left corner?
Enabling shadows in the render settings and the lights should work.
I don't know if it makes a difference, but which version of Poser are you using?
estherau posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 6:53 AM
Hi, I'm on poser pro 2010. Yep I checked the box for the whole scene.
I've got it tooning now, and not bad and very very easy! But I haven't got any tiny black lines, which I kind of thought there were on your render.
so then I just tried checking the box on the right side of the screen I get black lines around the edges of my transmaps.
could you just recheck the settings you gave me and see if they really are the ones you wanted to recommend please.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 6:54 AM
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 6:57 AM
I'kll see if I can make her face less shadowy in a minute
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 6:59 AM
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 7:03 AM
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 7:06 AM
bevans84, is there a way to reduce the shinyness at all,not that it looks bad in this render but for some I may not want it.
Love esther
PS thankyou so much for showing this script to me and helping me learn it.
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 7:40 AM
It doesn't look quite as good as the tooning imported from poser after tooning with olivier's art materials and shaderworks when I bring it into vue afterwards, but that might be my settings.
Fantastic.
I think this will be a very useful tool in my 3d armamentarium.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 7:58 AM
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
bevans84 posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 8:14 AM
Esther,
Under Specular, you can check "None" instead of "Current" or "Gloss". That should get rid of the shinyness. I nearly always use a couple of pose files on the texture sets before applying the Toon script. One sets all the skin diffuse to white, and the other removes all skin gloss, however, setting the Specular to None should get rid of the gloss also.
Then again, sometimes it looks better with the gloss. :-) (go figure)
On the settings, it looks like there was a mistake. For Dark Color, try .5 in the first column instead of 0.0
estherau posted Wed, 08 December 2010 at 6:38 PM
Yes, I may have to set specular to none for import into vue.
I played around with a few different scenes and I can see that you are right about the gloss, sometimes it looks very good.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
3dactor posted Thu, 09 December 2010 at 2:23 PM
3dactor posted Thu, 09 December 2010 at 2:24 PM
3dactor posted Thu, 09 December 2010 at 2:25 PM
3dactor posted Thu, 09 December 2010 at 2:26 PM
3dactor posted Thu, 09 December 2010 at 2:36 PM
I had some renders of Andy imported and Posed in Anime Studio, but can't track them down. You do have me intrigued now though.. May have to try a human figure with clothing... If I can find some time, I will post my results.
Miss Nancy posted Thu, 09 December 2010 at 7:42 PM
one thing would be interesting to see - can A.S. generate variable line widths like a pro human artist: either turns the pen tip or uses less pressure? it's so easy for inker to draw them, but hard for software to automate it IMVHO.
p.s. no anime studio gallery here, nor a forum for it, hence difficult to know if typical users are able to produce professional-looking toons. teyon can, but he's not typical user.
estherau posted Fri, 10 December 2010 at 3:03 AM
I would like to see pz3 people tooned in AS
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
bantha posted Fri, 10 December 2010 at 3:35 PM
I second this. From what I've seen so far AS seems to do a pretty good job in tooning, but I want to be sure before I spend some money.
A ship in port is safe;
but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing
Grace" Hopper
Avatar image of me done by Chidori.
Tashar59 posted Fri, 10 December 2010 at 4:40 PM
Quote - I would like to see pz3 people tooned in AS
Love esther
And here I thought that's what I showed. Oh well.
estherau posted Fri, 10 December 2010 at 4:44 PM
oh I meant more and standing in scenes. I did like the one you posted very much!!!
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
bevans84 posted Fri, 10 December 2010 at 6:47 PM
bagginsbill posted Fri, 10 December 2010 at 7:04 PM
Right but tooning in Poser (sans lines) is already trivial and you have a lot more control. I've posted toon shaders that can be used with VSS.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
estherau posted Fri, 10 December 2010 at 7:36 PM
Yes, I'm just waiting for your VSS pro and then I will try it.
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Fri, 10 December 2010 at 8:44 PM
Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/Advanced-Material-Manager.html
By the way, have you seen this ht BB?I haven't tried VSS yet, but I vaguelly remember (I could be wrong), you once saying that you have to have nodes in VSS with certain names to do group actions on them,
and now this software allows you to make batch changes to nodes names and all sorts of other things. I wonder if the two would integrate together to make speedy workflow?
I've actually got this material manager from rdna.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Fri, 10 December 2010 at 8:45 PM
bevans84 I would have liked to see those lines turned on.
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
bagginsbill posted Fri, 10 December 2010 at 9:27 PM
Quote - By the way, have you seen this ht BB?
I saw it recently. I don't have it but I watched the videos - it looks very handy.
Quote - I haven't tried VSS yet, but I vaguelly remember (I could be wrong), you once saying that you have to have nodes in VSS with certain names to do group actions on them, and now this software allows you to make batch changes to nodes names and all sorts of other things. I wonder if the two would integrate together to make speedy workflow?
The names in VSS are so that it knows which maps are for what purpose. They're not hard to set them up - you connect a bunch of image maps to things and then you click a button to automatically name them. if I ever were to make the Pro version with a real GUI it would be pretty much automatic because, as in that program, you'd be editing in VSS instead of in Poser. This naming business only happens once. You don't have to do it on the figure - just on the template you're creating.
There are some fundamental differences in philosophy between the two. In VSS you explicitly create templates and synchronize them with target material zones. In Semidieu's product, you simply select several that have the same shader and as you edit they stay synchronized. Both techniques accomplish the same, as long as everything is identical.
But!
Unlike VSS, semidieu did not make the concept of a template shader - a shader without any specific maps in it. In his examples, he shows the synchronized editing of the skin shader for the torso only. He's carefully avoiding the fact that you'll have to make all those edits again and again. Once for all the face zones, once for all the limb zones, once for all the torso zones, etc. It doesn't separate shader from texture set like VSS does. When you edit with VSS, you don't care about the fact that the textures aren't the same.
In his product, if you were to load a new skin shader into all the skin zones, you'd have to go back and edit the textures again. I think. Having never used his product, I may be making mistaken assumptions. But in VSS, you don't. Loading a shader is separate from specifying which textures go into those shaders.
Similarly, the plan for my Pro version also includes the reverse - you can load new textures without trashing the shaders. But we're all waiting for me to do it instead of talking about it. LOL.
Well my main job is ending and I have no work that I know of next month. The only reason I didn't finish VSS is because I have always spent my time on my consulting work because it pays a lot more than I think Poser plugins would pay. At least, that's always been my assumption. But if I have ZERO income (as it's looking right now) in January, then there will be no reason for me to put off finishing VSS.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
bevans84 posted Sat, 11 December 2010 at 4:51 AM
No you wouldn't. :) This is with silhouette and creases turned on.
bevans84 posted Sat, 11 December 2010 at 4:54 AM
Turning material lines on puts a line at every poser material zone, like between the thigh and the shin.
Miss Nancy posted Sat, 11 December 2010 at 1:07 PM
yeah, tashar's spear girl on page 1 is good example of anime line-work. cel-shading for anime should be either monotone or two-tone IMVHO, as 3-tone shading on animated characters violates anime dogma, which allows for rendered static backgrounds. I can see that linework presents some challenges in A_S. need smooth lines and ability to vary line width according to lite source. as mentioned by bill, that may be a job for APS or other postwork.
bantha posted Sat, 11 December 2010 at 1:55 PM
The lines are the difficult part. Still not a suitable solution, or so it seems.
A ship in port is safe;
but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing
Grace" Hopper
Avatar image of me done by Chidori.
estherau posted Sat, 11 December 2010 at 11:31 PM
the lines in D3D toon script look nicer, but the shading looks a bit nicer i think in AS
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Sun, 12 December 2010 at 1:07 AM
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Sun, 12 December 2010 at 1:09 AM
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Sun, 12 December 2010 at 1:11 AM
and then pz3 imported into vue and rendered:-
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Sun, 12 December 2010 at 1:12 AM
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Sun, 12 December 2010 at 1:27 AM
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Sun, 12 December 2010 at 1:39 AM
(i tried it before the other way and making the scene lighter makes the girl darker)
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
semidieu posted Sun, 12 December 2010 at 2:33 AM
Quote - Unlike VSS, semidieu did not make the concept of a template shader - a shader without any specific maps in it. In his examples, he shows the synchronized editing of the skin shader for the torso only. He's carefully avoiding the fact that you'll have to make all those edits again and again. Once for all the face zones, once for all the limb zones, once for all the torso zones, etc. It doesn't separate shader from texture set like VSS does. When you edit with VSS, you don't care about the fact that the textures aren't the same.
In his product, if you were to load a new skin shader into all the skin zones, you'd have to go back and edit the textures again. I think. Having never used his product, I may be making mistaken assumptions. But in VSS, you don't. Loading a shader is separate from specifying which textures go into those shaders.
It is also working for mats that do not share the same texture map :)
http://www.shaderworks-studio.com/Advanced/MaterialManager/Teaser/05/MultipleMaterialsNoMaps.html
And even if it does not have the same structure. Notice that the 'order' is important. If you make the connection in the SkinFace directly on the image_map, it will connect in every materials in the Image_map, skipping what is 'before'.
http://www.shaderworks-studio.com/Advanced/MaterialManager/Teaser/06/AMM_DifferentShader.html
bagginsbill posted Sun, 12 December 2010 at 11:10 AM
Cool semidieu - that's a great tool you made. You should replace the multi-material editing demo then because it implies you can't do that across different map sets. That does the product a disservice.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
semidieu posted Sun, 12 December 2010 at 4:09 PM
Thanks BB :)
I'll redo the flash movie to change this - or perhaps simply add the one I made to the other and explain that it also works across the different materials :)
flibbits posted Mon, 20 December 2010 at 1:48 AM
I had no idea AS could import from Poser.
