Hi

I'm new to the cloth room so please bear with me as I try to explain :)

I've made a dress in hex and parented it to v4's chest in poser (poser 7.0.4.220) and run a simulation in the cloth room, but there are a few problems that i can see and not sure what ive done wrong,

I have collided the cloth to v4 in the highest heirachy, and the settings are as on the image, the dynamic controls and cloth control settings are the default (thought I'd start with the default first before learning further)

The problems i see are as follows

the back of the calf cuts through the cloth
the sleeves look crumpled with a wavy appearance on part
some bits on the skirt area show the facets of the model

Any ideas of how to correct these would be appreciated?

Thanks

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

What are the simulation settings? Check all three boxes. That normally works for me ;o). As for seeing the facets, that's pretty much common with dynamic quaded clothing. What is the current resolution of that dress? I'd consider smoothing it once more. Dynamics works better the higher the res. If smoothing sends it over 22,000 polys that might bog down your system a little bit ;o).

What I would try:

Turn the fold resistance down a little bit. Try 3.00. Turn the fabric density up to about 0.0100. The setting you have is a bit stiff. Rerun the sim and see what happens :o). One more thing...you can turn air damping off if you like. I don't like the "puffiness" it causes in a static pose like that ;o).

Another thing to consider: the more square your quads are, the better they behave. The quads in the skirt especially are getting rectangular.

Laurie

Thanks Laurie

I only checked the last box in the sim settings, ill do it again with all three checked and your suggestion on the resistance/density, I did try to mess around yesterday on another dress but it sorta stetched and looked like stringy goo lol so thought it better i didnt try messing with the dynamic controls

I might try abit of a noise bump on the material to see if those squares disappear, (lol i can see this turning out as a furry dress)

I'll let you know how i get on :)

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

I know it's a long thread, but this is a great thread to read :o):

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2817155

I'm not insinuating that you're a dummy...lol. The thread is full of useful information ;o).

Laurie

Did you render with Smooth Polygons on? That might take away at least some of the facets :)

I can't remember trekkiegrrrl and my poser programme has now crashed and I can't get back in now, (typical)

I think it was off so will try with it on and see.

Thanks Laurie for the link, I'll check that out while I wait for poser to behave itself.

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

To get rid of the calve poke through you need an extra edge running up the dress to about the waist
on the sleeve edges I would make a seprate dynamic group to control the clumpyness
philc has some free cloth presets try them out

the back of the calf cuts through the cloth

Character skin can have displacememt map, or you need increase collision detection and offset. "Smooth polygons" in render setting can cause problem or resolve it ;)

the sleeves look crumpled with a wavy appearance on part

It must happend if facets have more then 3 vertex. Triangulate in modeling program or UV Mapper. (Pro)

Some bits on the skirt area show the facets of the model. It is terrible and visible even with fur material.

Open obj in UV Mapper.

Select all.

In "Tools" menu select "Normals" => "Smooth"

Since none of the calf should be showing, you can turn visibility to off for the body part.

______________

Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM

Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3

Thanks all for your comments and remedies, I tried a few and these reduced the problems (smoothing, grouping, smoothing polygons which made it worse and changing settings) however looking at the link Laurie sent over, I have come to the conclusion that I need to take this learning curve abit slower, lol I thought it would be easier than it is.

I really want to make dynamic clothes and give them out in freebies so it's not a case of make do and I need to get it right and I will have to start from scratch and learn a lot more.

I think I need to read that thread from start to finish (and make notes of anything I can find here and elsewhere) maybe a new year's resolution as it will probably take me the year to work it out. :/

Cheers to all and happy new year!

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

There's a lot of useful info and a couple of very handy tables on this page.

Cloth Room Tutorial

Expert in computer code including, but not limited to, BTW; IIRC; IMHO; LMAO; BRB; OIC; ROFL; TTYL. Black belt in Google-fu.

Thanks Replicant, that looks a good page as it has visuals on it and you can actually see what it means rather than trying to work out what its supposed to look like. :)

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Perhaps I may add a bit.

Just from the image - I don't have details - I infer the dress is about 50 vertices circumference and 50 height, making a 50x50 = 2500 vertex object of about 1 mtr circumference and 1,5 mtr height. This makes squareroot( 2500/1,5 ) = 40 vertices per meter, or about 25mm vertex density.

Vicky, inside the dress, is about 1,80 mtr height, and consists of 70.000 vertices. That is 200 vertices per meter = 5mm vertex density.

Hence the figure has a much higher vertex density than the dress, which is the reason to check the "figure vertex against cloth polygon" collision checkbox and the reason why the second one (poly to poly) will not add much value - it is for about equal densities.

Quad-based objects of about 25mm density are known for the mild rubberish behavior, which might be reduced a bit by lower Fold resistance and will increase by increasing density, and will especially be reduced by pumping up the stretch damping to 0,1 or above. Note that parameters like density and the resistances show different cloth behavior when altering them in orders of maginitude, like halving, doubling, tenfolding and the like. Personally I do not believe that much in the effects of minor teaks.

Please do not switch off air damping, it's the only force that can stop the dress from swaying sideways forever.

Quad based objects are known to show behavior that varies a lot with vertex density. Lower densities are less elastic and might even freeze up. This makes me worry about the sleeve ends, the chest portion and the skirt in the circumferential direction. It implies that portions of the dress will behave quite different from other parts.

Changing quads into tri-polies makes the cloth less rubberish and more towel / linen like, thinner and (far) more elastic along the diagonals. For the quality velvet-like dress you seem you create. my personal preference would still be quads.

Success

- - - - -

Usually I'm wrong. But to be effective and efficient, I don't need to be correct or accurate.

visit www.aRtBeeWeb.nl (works) or Missing Manuals (tutorials & reviews) - both need an update though

Cheers to all and happy new year!

Hi Lully, happy new year to you too! May all your dreams come true this year.

How's your dress coming along?

thanks aRtbee for your input,

I must admit that alot (not all) of what you said went over my head, when folk start talking about math in poser it's like another language, I am however relieved that quads can be used in some circumstances as I havent got a programme to change them to tris and will try the sim using the "figure vertex against cloth polygon" bit checked,

i have since smoothed the garment down once doubling the circ and vertical vertex and also cut the sleeves off :) they were the main problem so to begin with I have simplified the outfit. lol another thing i did was make the quads more square and less oblong and that has reduced the marking on the skirt ( i think?)

I can see this being a long process of trial and error for me to actually see what happens when "this dial" is spun plus I have the other thread to read up on,

Cheers !!

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

oh thanks patorak3d, think we crossed posts,

the dress is now short sleeved and smoothed abit more, i'm still experimenting with dials but it looks better :) I wont be going at this like a bull in a china shop as i wont have any hair left by the end of the process, need to keep calm lol

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Gotta picture?

not yet, pc keeps crashing (again) think i need to do a total reinstall at some point :/

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

oh thanks patorak3d, think we crossed posts,

the dress is now short sleeved and smoothed abit more, i'm still experimenting with dials but it looks better :) I wont be going at this like a bull in a china shop as i wont have any hair left by the end of the process, need to keep calm lol

Oops! i think i crossed this time...does this mean we've criss crossed?

You're quite welcome. And thank you for making this dress.

BTW...i'll have you know "bull in a china shop" is a clan trait of mine. So if i ever get out of line with you just grab me by my ear and turn me on my side.

Quote - I am however relieved that quads can be used in some circumstances as I havent got a programme to change them to tris

You should be able to do that in Blender (I know you can convert in the other direction), and it's free....

______________

Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM

Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3

You should be able to do that in Blender (I know you can convert in the other direction), and it's free....

Can it make a margarita as well? j/k

"...I can see this being a long process of trial and error for me to actually see what happens when "this dial" is spun plus I have the other thread to read up on,"

Just a tip: start reading at the end, that's where I put the summaries and wrap up in. Same for my lengthy posts themselves. Or just ask, that's faster than trial and error. Or wait for the tutorial, which at least is more organized and has the Beginner / Intermediate / Advanced info separated. And some open issues sorted out.

- - - - -

Usually I'm wrong. But to be effective and efficient, I don't need to be correct or accurate.

visit www.aRtBeeWeb.nl (works) or Missing Manuals (tutorials & reviews) - both need an update though

lol i'll give blender a go as it's free but no margaritas as I'm tee total :)

I'm hoping to get it right sooner or later, the modelling is the simple part

I find conforming stuff for V4.2 tricky, mavka is a godsend to conform clothes to but for some reason I struggle with tricky vicky, so thought the next option was dynamic. Also have downloaded that marvellous designer 2 demo (only have 10 days left on that one) but doubt i will purchase it for 100 bucks to make freebies with, then again never say never. MD makes the garments with the the tri facets so is probably ideal for dynamic wear. plus you can see it hanging the right way there in the programme.

Thanks Artbee, will check it out

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Well, 100 bucks is too much if it were strickly for freebies, but if you're the type that likes your renders to stand out from the norm, then I guess it might be worth it ;o). 700 bucks to do commercial tho, is quite a bit out of my league...lol.

Laurie

lol i'll give blender a go as it's free but no margaritas as I'm tee total :)

i can respect that. Speaking of which, is it tea time on your side of the ocean?

Making conforming clothes for V4.2, i think i'd rather be burnt at the stake than do it.

I seem to do less and less renders these days, think i tend to make stuff rather than create with it, most of my stuff over the last year (all bar the last couple of weeks or so) has been test renders.

maybe the price will come down when they realise a handful of people will get it at the price they ask. hopefully a sale one day :)

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

yes it's tea time, 18.41 to be precise, although im only having toast as had a big lunch

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Excellent! OK...i got started thinking about food and got lost here. Is Marvelous Designer 100 USD or 700USD?

both, plus another at nearly 1400 dollars, heres the link with prices, it all depends on the licence http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/Marvelous/Product.aspx

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Personal license (which allows commercial renders and freebie mesh distribution, but not commercial mesh distribution) is $99 introductory price until February.

Commercial license is $699.

______________

Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM

Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3

Quote - is $99 introductory price until February.

oh heck i just realised that means it will go up!!!!! need to make me mind up pretty darn quick then :/

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

oh heck i just realised that means it will go up!!!!! need to make me mind up pretty darn quick then :/

lol.i'm glad the women in my family control the money, that way us men don't have to make decisions like that.

How's the picture coming along?

lost alot of the settings when it crashed so starting again with just tweeking from the defaults, first one, foot still cuts through so lowering the fold resistance from 4 -> 3

im gonna shrink the dress down as its too big for her,

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Lully...it's beautiful.

im gonna shrink the dress down as its too big for her,

Please leave the color the same though.

very nice :o)

Don't fiddle too much with poke thru...it's gonna happen in some spots no matter what you do. That's where the morph brush comes in really handy...pulls those right out ;o). Smooths crinkly folds too.

Laurie

i use default cloth collision settings and never get poke thru.

i think poke thru happens when the cloth in zero pose already is touching the figure(body,hands,feet,....). so make sure that in the first frame the cloth is not touching the figure.

the morph brush is perfect and fantastic for fixing cloth problems. i alot of times use the smooth for fixing folds.

By the image Lully showed of the original dress, the part getting poke was definitely not touching the figure yet ;o).

Laurie

yeah it was the back of the calf and the skirt is a cone shape so should have been miles away from the legs,

here is a render i did last night, still testing but almost there,

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Very nice :o)!

Laurie

Thanks Laurie, think i'm gonna put it for testing now, i did try and do a sitting pose but my poser is crashing once more

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Thanks Laurie, think i'm gonna put it for testing now, i did try and do a sitting pose but my poser is crashing once more

Excellent. What's causing your Poser to crash?

think it may be something to do with my nvidia card, the screen goes black then poser freezes up when the card recovers,

I know next to nothing when it comes to pc systems, the card is set on the adjust image settings with preview tab as "let the 3d application decide" the PhysX GPU acceleration is enabled

not sure what else to do, :/

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Hi Lully, sorry for the late reply. My mom asked me to tag along with her while she picked up her medications and bought a few groceries.

Anyhow, have you talked with the people at nvidia.

Quote - Anyhow, have you talked with the people at nvidia.

No, think i will check out the site to see if there are any tips.

Oh and I have sent you sitemail in reply to yours :)

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Got it and thank you.

"I've made a dress in hex and parented it to v4's chest"

If you are using the cloth room, you shouldn't parent the cloth object to the figure.

That can cause problems. The cloth room itself keeps the cloth object on the figure.

Sure you can parent the clothing to the figure. I normally parent to the body of the figure, but I haven't had any problems.

Laurie

i thought the parenting was just so that the dress moved with vicky etc if you were to move her around the scene. Does it do anything to the actual dress in the sim?

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Quote - i thought the parenting was just so that the dress moved with vicky etc if you were to move her around the scene. Does it do anything to the actual dress in the sim?

If you're planning on giving your cloth mesh away then DO parent your mesh to the figure.

According to Poser 6 manual, always save cloth sim objects as smart props. That is, parent them. It also says to parent the objects to the hip as the hip is highest in the human figure heirarchy.

I use Poser cloth sims all the time:D They're my babies!

Quote - If you're planning on giving your cloth mesh away then DO parent your mesh to the figure. According to Poser 6 manual, always save cloth sim objects as smart props. That is, parent them. It also says to parent the objects to the hip as the hip is highest in the human figure heirarchy.

Thanks, I have been parenting it anyway and saving as a smart prop, think I do that as a matter of course due to all the smart props I've done, but I have been parenting to the whole body.

Think I need to read up abit more and read the manual, lol I hate manuals (I the type of person to press a button and think "what does this do?" :/ )

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

hi Lully,

parenting does not work IN the sim but works OUTSIDE the sim.

So it effects the dress moves before the Start frame (but please, leave this at 1 unless you're into real fun effects) and after the End frame, plus it effects the vertices in the choreographed group which are not in the sim either.

Question: what kind of cloth do you have in mind? Fine linen or thicker velvet?

Suggestions:

use Drape (to 30?)
enlong the simulation (to 60?)
increase Stretch damping (to 0.1) Then you can do with a shorter sim and less drape
increase Stretch resistance, as the defaults will enlong this dress with say 5 cm / 2 inch just from stretching, presenting the foot issues as well
test if you do benefit from a larger Collision Depth (say 2), and you can check Ignore head collisions in there.
increase Dynamic Friction (to 0.5 or so)

And...

when you want to have her in a sitting pose in a still image, animate (scale up, move forward) the chair into position as well. saves you a neightmare or two. Doesn't work in animations, though.

Dress looks great BTW, the dark red would do great as well, especially as a velvet with some silver jewelry. Compliments.

Feel free to ask, saves you a month reading as well as a month testing. Pressing buttons and see what happens is great, except for Cloth Room (and fighter jets).

- - - - -

Usually I'm wrong. But to be effective and efficient, I don't need to be correct or accurate.

visit www.aRtBeeWeb.nl (works) or Missing Manuals (tutorials & reviews) - both need an update though

Quote - ...Pressing buttons and see what happens is great, except for Cloth Room (and fighter jets).

and nuclear missle silos ;o)

Laurie

and spaceships.

Arthur Dent: What happens if I press this button?

Ford Prefect: I wouldn't-

Arthur Dent: Oh.

Ford Prefect: What happened?

Arthur Dent: A sign lit up, saying "Please do not press this button again."

Airport security is a burden we must all shoulder. Do your part, and please grope yourself in advance.

> Quote - ............Question: what kind of cloth do you have in mind? Fine linen or thicker velvet?

Thanks for the info...

To be honest I don't know about fabric, lol. I seem to be sticking to velvet quite abit, I've done testing on a few bits and not really stearing that far away from default. I've done these so far

oh by the way, Ive never used the morph tool til this weekend and the smoothing process is very therapeutic :)

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Quote - and nuclear missle silos ;o)

good job I'm not in politics :/

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Oh, I like all those clothes...did you make them all? Looks like you're getting the hang of the cloth room ;o). And yes - isn't the morph brush great?

Laurie

Quote - Oh, I like all those clothes...did you make them all? Looks like you're getting the hang of the cloth room ;o). And yes - isn't the morph brush great?

Yeah I made them all, it's more of variations of what I already modelled, so not too time consuming. :)

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Dynamic cloth problems