Michaelab opened this issue on May 16, 2011 · 135 posts
Michaelab posted Mon, 16 May 2011 at 7:57 AM
Probably a stupid question, but how does one lay down a floor?
I've seen tiles for floors and that sound laborious. Is there just a simple floor I can lay down? I'm looking for a plain white or cream colored floor.
bagginsbill posted Mon, 16 May 2011 at 8:07 AM
Go into the material for the ground plane, advanced, and uncheck the "Shadow Catch Only" switch. Now you have a floor.
Or you can add a Poser one-sided square, rotate it and scale it as you like.
Are you asking how to put materials on it that look like tiles?
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Michaelab posted Mon, 16 May 2011 at 8:10 AM
Thanks, Bagginsbill. Yes, tiles would work or just a plain laminate pattern.
vilters posted Mon, 16 May 2011 at 11:37 AM
Do not forget to include a displacement map on those tiles or laminte:
Increases realims by a huge factor....
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markschum posted Mon, 16 May 2011 at 1:18 PM
at free.daz3d.com there is a minibar. That has a floor which I find useful.
NanetteTredoux posted Mon, 16 May 2011 at 1:37 PM
I find the Wood Workshop by SpiralGraphics very useful for texturing floors.
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markschum posted Mon, 16 May 2011 at 11:24 PM
Michaelab posted Mon, 16 May 2011 at 11:58 PM
bagginsbill: did what you said and in the preview window of the material room a tile displayed (I imported it earlier) however when rendering the floor it is bright like a light with no shadows. Any clues to that? I've got everything else dark but for some reason the floor is illuminated. Attached is material foom setting for the floor.
markschum posted Tue, 17 May 2011 at 10:32 AM
The minibar is http://free.daz3d.com/free_weekly/detail.php?free_id=214
Once you enter the freestuff , you go to Free model archive (top left) and then browse through whats there.
bagginsbill posted Tue, 17 May 2011 at 12:21 PM
Sneak peak of the floor tile. This is 100% procedural - no images used. Can use images as well.
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WandW posted Tue, 17 May 2011 at 2:19 PM
BB, you are amazing...
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Miss Nancy posted Tue, 17 May 2011 at 3:00 PM
maybe mike's bright floor render is actually rendering some other surface that has alt_diff, alt_spec, ambient et al. in above shader tree, hilite size = 1 (can't see if spec colour is [0,0,0]) and refl_lite_mult checked. but they wouldn't make the surface glow AFAIK.
bagginsbill posted Tue, 17 May 2011 at 8:01 PM
I thought I had the whole tile floor thing pretty well figured out. But I've discovered some interesting things today that exceed the realism of anything I've done before.
I have so much to say about this one topic it will take many pages. I despair of doing that. I think I'm going to have to just cover a tiny bit at a time.
Here's another demo. The floor here is again all procedural. I didn't think a Poser interior could look like this.
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Miss Nancy posted Tue, 17 May 2011 at 9:36 PM
it looks pretty good, alotta depth fall-off, with those reflections blurring out IMVHO. good shadows on the back wall. will this work in pre-poser-9?
Michaelab posted Tue, 17 May 2011 at 10:17 PM
I think that is pretty amazing stuff for a procedural floor! Looks absolutely gorgeous. Looking forward to your explanation on how to do that.
Boni posted Wed, 18 May 2011 at 6:30 AM
Oh, BB! I sooooo want to make that room ... or my own equivalent. Where and when will the tutorial be available? I'm interested in the walls and windows as well. Thank you for all the wonderful things you are sharing.
Boni
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
WandW posted Wed, 18 May 2011 at 9:15 AM
Quote - Oh, BB! I sooooo want to make that room ... or my own equivalent. Where and when will the tutorial be available? I'm interested in the walls and windows as well. Thank you for all the wonderful things you are sharing.
I'd be willing to bet those windows and walls are procedural geometry...
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grichter posted Wed, 18 May 2011 at 10:29 AM
Wow a procedural terra-cotta(sp) tile floor with different colored grout between tiles....amazing stuff BB. This is going to be really really good to learn. Thanks a ton.
I can hear in my head, V4's high heels clacking on that tile floor as she walks across that floor to get you a celebratory beer from the refrig when this is done! :thumbupboth:
Gary
"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"
Hawkfyr posted Wed, 18 May 2011 at 1:13 PM
Wow!!!...Probably one the most realistic "Poser" renders I've ever seen.
Great work BB.
8 )
Tom
“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”
bagginsbill posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 9:07 AM
Quote - it looks pretty good, alotta depth fall-off, with those reflections blurring out IMVHO. good shadows on the back wall. will this work in pre-poser-9?
Yes. I'm using PP2010 here. You can't get quite the same results without render GC, but it is possible to get nice results even with Poser 8 IDL, and even Poser 7 or 6 with IBL. Poser 5 is not going to cut it - it won't look at all like this.
I don't have older versions to test anymore, but I suspect that the blurred reflections may be grainier in older versions.
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 9:09 AM
Quote - Oh, BB! I sooooo want to make that room ... or my own equivalent. Where and when will the tutorial be available? I'm interested in the walls and windows as well. Thank you for all the wonderful things you are sharing.
Boni
I am just going to post instructions in this thread.
As for the room prop - I made it. It's not finished or perfect yet, so I don't mind giving it away if you want to experiment with it. There are some light leaks here and there and there is no hardware - door knobs, hinges, window latches, wall switches, outlets - all are missing.
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 9:11 AM
Quote - I'd be willing to bet those windows and walls are procedural geometry...
Yes - procedurally generated using my (unfinished) Python geometry scripts.
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 9:11 AM
Thanks!
How do we like this one?
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vilters posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 9:20 AM
You realy do amazing stuff in that mat room.
Learning every minute, and loving it.
Thanks.
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Dev
"Do not drive
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parkdalegardener posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 1:55 PM
Quote - Thanks! How do we like this one?
A lot. Can't wait fot the tut. but I've a question. Do I see blue light from a secondary source entering the room through the glass? I find it a little confusing as the primary light source seems to be coming in at different angle and colour. Just a question. It may be me. Love the floors though. These tiles are great.
pdg
bagginsbill posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 2:04 PM
The sun light shines through the windows and shows white on the floor. That is direct illumination - light source/surface/camera.
The reflections of blue are of the sky outside the room. We are looking out the windows at a different angle than the reflected light, so we see trees directly, and sky indirectly. Since I wanted this to be more of a rough finish stone, the reflection is blurry and weak. It's so weak that reflections of darker things in the room (much darker than the sky) are unnoticed. But they are there.
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Boni posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 2:33 PM
Oh,yes, I'd be veryintersted in the room prop ... I'm willing to do the henges, knobs etc. These are wonderful. Again, looking forward to your tutorial. I'll have a sampe of what I did withthe floor as it came with the program in tiles and a little tweeking I did. But at the moment it's still rendering.
Boni
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
parkdalegardener posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 2:35 PM
Thanks BB. I figured as the master of light there would be a reason for this. I noticed how the sun and the envirosphere lighting alined in the first image you posted. I never noticed real world lighting being so different but then I haven't noticed a lot of lighting till I see you bring it up i9n the fourms. I'm just a hack that wants to learn. Thanks.
pdg
bagginsbill posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 2:49 PM
Edit: I did this with IBL+AO instead of IDL, to show that you can get good results even with P6-type of lighting.
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JenX posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 3:00 PM
Bookmarked.
Also? Digging on the shader on Andy. Is that the default shader? it just looks...better.
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 3:17 PM
Attached Link: Glossy materials with true Fresnel effect using matmatic
Andy (and the piano) are sporting the BBGloss accurate Fresnel shader, available and discussed at the attached thread link.Andy has:
The piano has:
The black floor I just posted is a variation of the BBGlossy in which I put white for diffuse color, and a noise node into the diffuse reflectivity, multiplied by .012 - making it very close to black, but not constant black. This let the sunlight show a bit of "dust" on the black floor.
You should put the Glossy thread into the wiki as it is a complete tutorial on the subject of glossy/shiny opaque things, including some metals.
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parkdalegardener posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 3:36 PM
Quote - PDG - here's a different floor mat that should make it more obvious what's going on.
Edit: I did this with IBL+AO instead of IDL, to show that you can get good results even with P6-type of lighting.
Indeed BB. Thanks. I got it now.
JenX posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 3:38 PM
Added to the Shader threads page for now :)
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Boni posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 4:24 PM
This is amazing. I baught Vue 9: Cmplete for the more "realistic" renders, but I think I might just stay with Poser for the intieriors and keep Vue for the exterior "stots". This is amazing!
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
bagginsbill posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 4:34 PM
Heheh Boni. Go tell Vintorix you want him to stop shutting me down when discussing realism.
I don't really care how people render, and if they want to make ugly and pretend it's art - be my guest. But there's no reason Poser renders have to look so damn FAKE and there's no reason that I have to shut up about it just because some people think it's not the most important thing.
To me, when you have all the beautiful posing and expression and shapes and colors are all perfect, but it looks like the light is shining from the floor instead of the sky, I hate it anyway.
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parkdalegardener posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 4:37 PM
here here
JenX posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 4:54 PM
The downside of the amount of time I spend on Facebook is I forget how to respond to posts I agree with when I don't see a "Like" button.
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Latexluv posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 5:25 PM
This is a wonderful discussion! I am so liking your demo renders, BB! This is the sort of thing I had hoped would come about in the Photo Realism thread. Bring it on BB.
P.S. I could use a floor like that for the render I did last night.
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
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Boni posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 6:03 PM
The work you've done with lighting and matterial room settings have been a blessing to me. I've been given a product grant from the department of services for the blind from the state of WAshington to start my own graphic design and illustration business. I'm waiting for the final upgrade to be installed by a friend and I'll be ready to go. In the meantime I'm learing all I can and building "sets" and "characters" for illustrations and designing stationary, posters, and working on web-page designs to move ahead when that is done. I'm saying this to let you know that this is my career, my passion and the only thing more important than this is my life partner.
Your help is so welcome and this may be uset a "floor" to you ... but htis adds realism to illustrations that can get me work, assignments and help me bring money into the household.
sorry for ranting and gushing my life out to you ... it just seemed impartant at the time.
Sincerely
Boni
Here is a sample illustration that I made based on this thread. It finally finshed. took about 6 hours.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
bagginsbill posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 7:04 PM
That's really nice Boni! The choices made in that floor are crucial to the feel of that image and it's done very well. Geez, I haven't even said anything yet about how to do these things. It's enough to just give ideas, eh?
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 7:19 PM
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Boni posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 7:45 PM
Wow, that is cool. Hea, just for folks information. some of the presets can be tweeked to create a feel of textile fabric. LIke with the chair I used from (I think it was the legacy content from P7) I went into the displacement setting chose 2d weave took it to .15 scale and displacement of .0333 ... that makes a nice aholstry (why can't I remember how to spell that???) texture. Add some specular and you have a shiney drapery faberic.
Back to the wonderful world of BB's tiles. Oh, and thankyou so much for the nice words about my piece, that means a lot coming from the master.
;)
Boni
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
bagginsbill posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 7:48 PM
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Latexluv posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 8:33 PM
Grungy bathroom tile, yeah! I could use that!
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
Boni posted Thu, 19 May 2011 at 9:29 PM
Wow, BB, these are reat! How did you get the varagated edges? Those look great!
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Afrodite-Ohki posted Fri, 20 May 2011 at 10:20 PM
Bookmarked for great win!
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
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Latexluv posted Tue, 24 May 2011 at 12:09 AM
Hoping for more on this dicussion on this subject.
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
Boni posted Tue, 24 May 2011 at 5:50 AM
One note I need to add. BB has done some great things with the floor textures and if you want to get started on your own, the tile section in Poser Pro 2010 is a great place to start ... I'm not sure if the settings are the same as in earlier versions, but I suspect it may go back to P7 or even P6. Tweeking the bump/displacement and reflection nodes will get you very intersting and hpefull satasfactory results. Not as elabroate or polished as BB's but then he is the master after all. :)
Boni
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
bagginsbill posted Tue, 24 May 2011 at 7:49 AM
Sorry - I got busy on an assignment. I'm in Milwaukee. I had planned to write some instructions last night, but the people I'm working for took me out to dinner and I got to the hotel very late. I hope to start posting some instructions tonight, but they may pull me out again.
Here's something to try hoping you discover some things on your own.
The mortar width defines the fraction of each tile devoted to the mortar area. Included in this area is a transition, or softness, which is also a parameter.
So - with mortar width at, for example, .1, .1 of each tile will get the mortar color. If you set softness to 1, that entire area will be a blend of the mortar and tile color.
Now - set mortar color to black, which is the number 0. Set both tile colors to white, which is a 1. Use this as a displacement map, and plug it into the displacement channel, with a depth of .5 inch.
Set the rest of the material to be a single diffuse color, something a mid-dark orange or peach, or any color you like, just not super bright and saturated. Set the Specular_Color white, highlight size .002, and Specular_Value to 1. The goal is no tiling of color - just a simple material where shape is easily revealed.
Place this all on a Poser one-sided square or similar simple prop. Render with displacement on. Try different settings of mortar width and softness. What do you learn?
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Michaelab posted Tue, 24 May 2011 at 8:09 AM
Hi Baggins,
Going back aways in this thread, I downloaded your light meter as suggested. Do you have instructions on how to use it?
bagginsbill posted Tue, 24 May 2011 at 9:00 AM
You render with it in the scene and you observe what it looks like.
There are demo pictures here:
Re: I can't get my picture right
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Michaelab posted Wed, 25 May 2011 at 7:59 AM
bagginsbill posted Wed, 25 May 2011 at 8:26 AM
The PoserSurface preview includes lighting information. From what I can see, I'm guessing you have a green light coming from upper left.
Unless you're doing a theatrical (stage) scene and you need colored lights because in real life the setup would have had colored lights, you should not use colored lights.
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manoloz posted Wed, 25 May 2011 at 8:47 AM
@Michaelab
Are you using the default lights? They tint the scene in a way that (maybe) looks nice on human-centric renders, but certainly not for archviz.
But I suspect that the problem stems from the Tile1 colour.
@Bagginsbill
Your shader is coming out fantastically. I do have some suggestions that could make it stand out even more. My observations stem from my almost 9 years working as chief designer & do-it-all in a marble&stone workshop.
Floor tiles are never 100% coplanar in respect of each other. What I mean is, that a mortar is laid on top of a surface, and the tile (whether ceramic, stone, or whatever) is pressed down on top of it. This makes the mortar... spill on the edges and stand out, and depending on performance-aesthetic choices, is how much of the mortar you then ... scrape away.
Now to the tiles themselves. Laying them on top of the mortar, which is not by any means completely planar nor smooth, and that before hardening behaves like a fluid makes each tile subtly non-planar in respect of each other, or in other words, each has a subtly different x,y, and z rotation. This is minimized a bit with the mason using a long piece of log-metal-plastic plank-thingy, but for practical reasons, it can only be so long, certainly never longer than 2m, which limits how many tiles can be more coplanar to each other. That, and that you cannot lay out all the tiles in one go.
The mortar also usually alters visibly (and sometimes physically) the sides of the tiles. As an example, a polished carrara marble tile (which is quite soft and scratchy) commonly loses a bit of it's polish on the sides because the mortar is a bit abrasive, and when the layer cleans the mortar excess, it scratches the polished surface. BTW, there are lots of translucid stones out there, carrara marble being one of them. Which means that when the tiles are not too thick, the colour of the mortar influences the percieved colour of the tiles. And makes any repair a living hell.
Ok, so maybe all this detail is a bit too much, but I thought you could use some of this information and incorporate it into your shader ;) It certainly is amazing as it is now, so maybe this is overkill.
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vilters posted Wed, 25 May 2011 at 8:58 AM
Be it sunlight, a lamp, a reflection, the color of the surface.
All interact to give the eye the total light and color information on each spot.
In my house, I have rather small windows.
As the sun turns around, the light, and the reflections change.
From the east it is open field, then comes a forest, then some green, to a brown wall in the evening?
As the sunlight passes over each, and gives different reflections, the "light" inside the house changes too.
The floor is a rather dull light grey-brown stone, but it still reflects the incoming light.
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"Do not drive
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bagginsbill posted Wed, 25 May 2011 at 9:14 AM
Good tips, manoloz and vilters. Some of the things manoloz describes I have not demonstrated yet, but I will.
So nobody told what they learned about softness as displacement? Hmmm. I had hoped to teach a man to fish, not do all the fishing.
I will give a hint - I don't like the shape that is produced.
But if I just go ahead and show what to do about it, I fear some readers will dismiss the subject because of difficulty with nodes. When we're done with this shader, there are going to be dozens and dozens of nodes. The shape is the first thing to deal with, and it's going to need 5 nodes just to fix it. But first you must see why.
Eventually we will adjust things so much that you may come to recognize that using the tile node AT ALL is undesirable. But for the time being I want to show you how to use the tile node, little by little, so that you can finally appreciate in the end why you would not use it, and why you should embrace matmatic if you really want to do quality shaders.
So far, though, everything I have shown was with the tile node as the core of the shader.
So - what's wrong with the shape?
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vilters posted Wed, 25 May 2011 at 9:14 AM
The leather color of the seat in front is green. (As you can see in le lower left corner, even a tad more green actually.)
But with all the light, and reflections in the house, it turns out to more blue in the middle of the picture.
Green + all the yellowish reflections from the wood and the walls, make it turn to a blue shine.
In this second picture, you see the green, but every relection on the cussions turn to blue, because of the wallpaper and the shine of the wooden roof.
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
vilters posted Wed, 25 May 2011 at 9:40 AM
Ahaaa- a detail.
When a blue relfection hits a white paper, => Simsalabim => blue paper. :-)
Lower right corner, second picture :-)
Ps, just turned around, and "on my screen at least", the colors are true to what they are.
Pictures, resized to 25% and sharpened once.
Saved as 10% reduction in jpg, using Picture Publisher 10.
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Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
Boni posted Wed, 25 May 2011 at 12:36 PM
Hmmm. I have a project I'm working on at the moment ... but I will definately ponder the "softness as desplacement" when I get the chance. That really intrigues me.
Boni
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
richardson posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 6:42 AM
"What's wrong with the shape?
Looks like some accidental positive displacement making a raised ring at the tile taper to joint. It's ugly! I'd use your talents on marble or one color ceramic. ;) Btw, you've not mentioned sss in tile but I'm sure there is tons of it.
Also judging from the large size of the taper at the tile edge, it makes the tile small. Say, 2 inches like a shower tile rather than a floor tile of 12 to 30 inches. trivia but important
bagginsbill posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 8:56 AM
Right - there is an S-shaped modulation of what would otherwise be a linear ramp.
Now what happens if you run that through a math:Gain node with gain of .32 or thereabouts?
This is assuming that you have the soft tile mortar color = black, tile color = white. This is important, because we want the tile edge ramp to go from 0 to 1.
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richardson posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 4:07 PM
Guessing with no Poser... a neutral gray with no displacement?
bagginsbill posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 4:50 PM
Look at this render. I set up two small sections of tile, showing only a slice of the tiles. This reveals the shape as a cross section.
The top is the natural shape you get by using softness = 1 alone.
The bottom is what you get after running it through a Gain node. The number was .36, whereas I earlier suggested .32. Earlier I had just eyeballed it vaguely but I was more careful this time and concluded that Gain of .36 is close to perfect to cancel out the funny shape.
Now you may think this isn't such a great shape either, but I can work with this because it is a linear ramp, f(x) = x, going from 0 to 1. I like linear inputs and I like 0 to 1. I have a very large collection of math functions that manipulate ramps of this form. Any other sort of ramp makes it harder to figure out what to do. But f(x) = x, x = [0, 1] is awesome.
Starting from this I can show you many interesting things.
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 4:57 PM
Up top is my linear ramp, f(x) = Gain(theTile, .36)
Given this rounding Corner function: (4 nodes)
def Corner(x, k) = (1 - (1 - x) ** k) ** (1/k)
I then used:
Corner(f(x), 4)
to produce the bottom shape.
I'm showing you k=4, but lots of different values of k are possible and interesting results abound.
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 5:01 PM
This is very handy for making various edge shapes on tiles, by manipulating just one number.
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 5:03 PM
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 5:08 PM
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johnpf posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 5:09 PM
You might have already tackled this and it's something you're going to post later on, but I've found that using non-square (i.e., tile width and tile height are not equal) tiles makes the mortar width all screwed up because that's controlled by one value whereas the tile size has the two values. Result being that if, say, the tile width is twice the height, then the horizontal mortar line is half the size of the vertical mortar lines. Which, for most tiling situations, is not ideal.
EDIT: Actually... disregard that! I've just tried it out in PP2010 and it works okay, with consistent horizontal and vertical lines. It never used to work way back in... whenever it was I last tried it and gave up because I couldn't work out how to even out the mortar width. Poser 6, perhaps? Anyway... just shows I should check what the latest behaviour is rather than relying on outdated data!
bagginsbill posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 5:15 PM
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 5:17 PM
Quote - You might have already tackled this and it's something you're going to post later on, but I've found that using non-square (i.e., tile width and tile height are not equal) tiles makes the mortar width all screwed up because that's controlled by one value whereas the tile size has the two values. Result being that if, say, the tile width is twice the height, then the horizontal mortar line is half the size of the vertical mortar lines. Which, for most tiling situations, is not ideal.
Yes!!!! Oh how joyful it is to have readers who appreciate the problems.
We can only use the Tile node for homogeneous coordinates - quite right.
For other systems, we will have to abandon the tile node altogether.
Never fear, a correct and far more useful version of the fundamental tile shape is one equation away. But if I just show that equation, people will barf, as it is not easy to understand unless you approach it slowly, with head down and gaze averted. Otherwise it will skitter away.
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 5:18 PM
Well I see your edit, but you're not wrong - there are cases where it will not work right.
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richardson posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 5:18 PM
Interesting. K=2 looks like a nice chanel leather pleat. An earlier poster who worked as a mason made a good point about uniformity or the lack thereof in a real world.
Can you produce an algorythm to pitch these multiple faces a degree or so from each other, orwould it be better to beat a one sided square up in a modeling prog? I mean, won't you get little cloned specular spots lined up like soldiers?
Not crits but looking to push the effects
bagginsbill posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 5:25 PM
Quote - Interesting. K=2 looks like a nice chanel leather pleat. An earlier poster who worked as a mason made a good point about uniformity or the lack thereof in a real world.
Can you produce an algorythm to pitch these multiple faces a degree or so from each other, orwould it be better to beat a one sided square up in a modeling prog? I mean, won't you get little cloned specular spots lined up like soldiers?
Not crits but looking to push the effects
As long as you're willing to put up with the math, I can show the following randomized imperfections:
Tiles not identical size.
Tiles have sides not perfectly straight.
Tiles rotated or off center slightly.
Tiles with too much or too little glue under them.
Tiles with uneven amounts of glue under them.
Edges chipped.
Surfaces that are not flat occasionally. (bowed)
Surfaces that are bumpy.
Surfaces with divots taken out.
Large chunks missing.
Grease and grime on the edges and packed into the mortar.
Streaks and scratches.
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 5:26 PM
Whoops - once again I'm called to go out to dinner. I am flying home tomorrow - I may not be back for a while. I don't know how late I'll be out tonight.
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richardson posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 5:59 PM
johnpf posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 6:10 PM
Yes, I've just found one.
The image attached to this message shows tile width 0.1 and height 0.5 (to show some contrast between horizontal and vertical) and the mortar width is 0.5.
Looks okay for having consistently spaced tiles and it appears the 0.5 mortar width is using the horizontal spacing to determine what percentage of the tile to occupy.
That's fine; we just have to keep in mind that the horizontal size determines mortar width and orient things appropriately.
However...
johnpf posted Thu, 26 May 2011 at 6:10 PM
And the mortar width has not changed at all!
If it were really using the horizontal size to determine the width of the mortar lines, you would expect some change as the horizontal and vertical tile sizes are switched around. But there's no change, so it's obvious that something non-obvious is determining mortar width, and not just something as simple as the horizontal size.
Latexluv posted Thu, 09 June 2011 at 5:38 PM
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
bagginsbill posted Thu, 09 June 2011 at 5:47 PM
I will be posting more. Sorry about being away. I suddenly had six days of emergency-need-help-right-now work from a client. I finished that today. But now I'm a little behind on the other project I was previously scheduled to do this week and have to do that tomorrow.
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Latexluv posted Thu, 09 June 2011 at 6:18 PM
Sorry you've got an avalanch of work! I have now bookmarked this discussion. I should have in the first place.
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
bagginsbill posted Mon, 20 June 2011 at 9:29 PM
Experiment with it. Ask me questions.
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bagginsbill posted Mon, 20 June 2011 at 9:30 PM
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bagginsbill posted Mon, 20 June 2011 at 9:44 PM
A couple notes about the shader.
The Math:Divide at the bottom right is setting up how many tiles you want per unit of U/V space in the second value. It is dividing the space into 1/8th size tiles. For most floors or walls, 1/8 is not the right value. I was just doing that so the preview was legible. You probably want somewhere in the range of 1/20 to 1/100.
If you have a known size for the U/V space this can be precise. For example, if I have a floor that is 10 feet across in U/V, and I want 3 tiles per foot (4 inch tiles), then I need 1/30.
I'm not using the Tile node for color or displacement directly. I'm just using it to create a gradient around each tile. Remember from an earlier post that I need to adjust that to get it to be a linear gradient, using Gain. That's Math_Functions_2 which I forgot to open in this image. Use the Gain value .36 I showed earlier.
The Math_Functions_3 Subtract .1 is shifting that to choose what part is grout and what part is tile. Where the gradient value is below .1, that will be grout. Try adjusting that value. Also adjust the Mortar_Thickness in the Tile node itself.
The Math:Clamp (Math_Functions_4) is making a sharp but anti-aliased edge gradient between grout and tile. That's my master mask that tells the rest of the shader it is doing grout or it is doing tile - two different materials.
On the right/middle is my Fresnel approximation - an improvement over Schlick's approximation, but I designed it before knowing about Schlick's so it was never inspired by a desire to improve Schlick's. I found it myself and it's very useful. LuxRender should be using this approximation and not Schlick's, because it is much more accurate.
The Blender_2 node is connecting my Diffuse (Clay) reflection with my mirror reflection. By combining them in this way, conservation of energy is guaranteed.
The .25 blending factor is an easy-to-use control for the maximum shine from reflections - in this case 25%. Few floor tiles shine brighter than that and most shine less than that. Bathroom wall tile can shine more.
The top Blender is choosing tile color versus grout color. We will be plugging lots more things into that in the future. For now, I just used a solid color for grout, and a little bit of variation from a gray-scale Clouds node into the tile color which is currently dark blue. Experiment with that blue - change it to lots of different colors - get a feel for how they end up looking when shiny.
For this shader I did not do the cool rounded edge I showed earlier. I wanted to focus on the techniques for shine and color management. Adding the other nodes I posted earlier to make the round edge is simple, but distracting.
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SteveJax posted Mon, 20 June 2011 at 11:11 PM
You know what the material room needs? Comment sections for each node so you can explain to yourself what it does for when you go back to look at it and can't remember what it's doing. (Yeah, my memory isn't what it used to be!)
For instance Math_Functions needs a comment section to say it's affecting how many tiles there are. I know I won't remember if I come back to use it again a year from now. 
ladydrakana posted Sat, 25 June 2011 at 6:40 PM
Quote - Study this shader. It's not every trick I know, but it's a basic high-quality tile shader from which many additional variations are easily made.
Experiment with it. Ask me questions.
Is there something not shown in the material here that I don't know about. As setting it up just like the example doesn't quite look like the example and just renders a flat non-tiled floor? World units set to inches. Raytraced light and raytracing enable in render setting. 2 Raytraces. Using Poser Pro 2010. Tried to add a screenshot but it failed. I am not going to try again with the screenshot don't have enough time in the day to figure out why it failed. When it was smaller than recommeded.
Or is it not going to work with Poser Pro 2010 as I have had other things just not work in it as I would work with 7 or earlier.
Poser Pro 2010
vilters posted Sat, 25 June 2011 at 7:06 PM
@ BB > Unreproducable
Math_Functions 2 is colapsed.
No one can see what is in it.
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
Latexluv posted Sat, 25 June 2011 at 7:31 PM
Well, BB did accidentally leave one of his math functions closed and you had to read his text to find out what numbers to put into that function. But I had some problems getting this set up to work as well. Part of it turned out to be my own mistake because I had a wrong number in one of the math functions and it took me about 15 minutes of eyeballing my set up and the screen capture to figure out where I went wrong. The other problem has got to be a rendering problem because I'm not getting displacement to render well at all. I have Use Displacement maps checked. I haven't messed with this in a couple of days to figure out where I'm going wrong.
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
Latexluv posted Sat, 25 June 2011 at 8:33 PM
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
CyberDream posted Sat, 25 June 2011 at 8:33 PM
It's working fine for me, check message on math function. Actually I got it to work somewhat earlier by guessing that it was an Add 1.0, but gain works much better.
"That's Math_Functions_2 which I forgot to open in this image. Use the Gain value .36 I showed earlier."
Boni posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 11:56 AM
I keep coming back to this thread as I love these floors. I do have a question since I am collecting "sets" as scenes in PP2014. My background image is NOT being reflected on the floor through the windows as they are on page one in BB's renders. I've copied his mat room settings and it just isn't happening. Is this a "billboard" background rather that an "import background" image?
thanks.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
bagginsbill posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 12:58 PM
It's an environment sphere. My environment sphere.
https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/free-stuff/environment-sphere
There are 5 sub pages full of more info and quick-start scene is among them that is ready to use. You only have to pick an equirectangular image off the web, download it, and load it into the EnvSphere.
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Boni posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 1:35 PM
Tried the "billboard" .... disaster. Any ideas?
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
FightingWolf posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 1:38 PM
Boni posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 1:59 PM
Ah, I missed those sub pages. Going right over there. Thanks, BB. :)
Boni
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Miss Nancy posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 2:42 PM
Quote - Tried the "billboard" .... disaster. Any ideas?
post screenshot of billboard shader/obj. use 2 - 4 raytrace bounces, with IDL/raytrace enabled. in BB's case, it was envsphere with hdri applied, as mentioned above.
Boni posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 2:45 PM
Perfect! Thank you so much!!! I'm jazzed to get going on this!
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
EClark1894 posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 3:51 PM
bagginsbill posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 3:53 PM
Quote - Wonder if you could do a procedural floor for wood?
Yes but I have not revealed the shader yet.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2365050&user_id=374541&np&np
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2364530&user_id=374541&np&np
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2853901&page=4#message_3990719
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Boni posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 6:41 PM
Hmmm. I've just taken a "free" wood floor and am rendering it with high reflection now. I'll share tomorrow ... it's time for the world to come in on me. ;)
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Boni posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 6:48 PM
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Boni posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 6:51 PM
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Boni posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 7:05 PM
Thanks, Believable3d, Did that and it was amazingling helpful as you can see by the music room I put up. That is BB's envosphere with a panarama on it. It is a fantastic tool, better than any of the other skydomes out there. So versatile. I'm on a roll. More tomorrow. ...
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Believable3D posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 7:08 PM
Quote - Thanks, Believable3d, Did that and it was amazingling helpful as you can see by the music room I put up. That is BB's envosphere with a panarama on it. It is a fantastic tool, better than any of the other skydomes out there. So versatile. I'm on a roll. More tomorrow. ...
Yeah, sorry, I didn't initially see there was another page of discussion and everything had been covered. Hence, I deleted my post. :p
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Boni posted Tue, 29 July 2014 at 9:16 PM
As they say, its all good. I appreciate everything we have been learning here.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Boni posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 8:36 AM
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Believable3D posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 8:42 AM
Very nice. Though you need to reduce the spacing between the panels as well.
______________
Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM
Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3
vilters posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 9:06 AM
Tiles, are rarely layed down square to the walls.
Here a tip to turn the tiles 45° as they usually are.
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
Boni posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 9:09 AM
vilters: I really like that tip, thanks.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
vilters posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 9:13 AM
Hello Boni; Use the tile node?
And use my tip I just posted to turn the tiles a more realistical 45° to the walls.
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
vilters posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 9:15 AM
From my setup?
Where the blue and red color are? Set them to white, and plug the texture in there.
Or. use a procedural wood shader there and tile those?
I think that is what BB's coming to / going to.
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
Boni posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 9:32 AM
It already is using the tile mode. It's a little wonky. I was referring to the original parquet set up. See illustration. My internet connecting is sluggish this morning. I've been having some stalls, sorry.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Boni posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 9:59 AM
Here is the screenshot I've been trying to upload for the last several minutes. Sorry about that.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
EClark1894 posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 10:27 AM
Quote - Here is the screenshot I've been trying to upload for the last several minutes. Sorry about that.
Well, if you're looking for criticism, I'd say your lighting setup sucks on this one.
Miss Nancy posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 12:48 PM
this uses cellular node from one of 35 poser wood procedurals in basic fresnel diffuse shader.
BB's wood-tiling script may have more variables.
p.s. boni - there's no img in yer last post.
Boni posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 2:17 PM
P.S., Miss Nancy, what was the name of that shader?
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Miss Nancy posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 3:01 PM
used poser pro/basic materials/woods/wood2. just cellular node, nothing else. wood node may also work, but didn't try it. plug cellular node into diffuse fresnel shader (AKA conservation of energy).
Boni posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 4:37 PM
I've been working with these settings and nothing comes close to what you have Miss Nancy. I've even tried starting from scratch. I get almost there with wood plugged into either tile (good depth but even spacing) or brick (good spacing but can't get depth for mortar) It looks like cheap furniture with particle board covered with pictures of wood.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Boni posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 5:01 PM
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Boni posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 5:42 PM
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Boni posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 6:16 PM
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Boni posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 6:23 PM
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Miss Nancy posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 6:45 PM
tile or brick causes pattern to form which distracts viewer, hence one needs randomiser. one way is extensive scripting, but until script released, try applying diffuse fresnel wood shader to single plank of desired dimensions, then duplicate/shift/rotate as desired.
Boni posted Wed, 30 July 2014 at 6:52 PM
Ah, that is why the texture was applied to a box figure! I get it. Okay. Thanks, Miss Nancy. :) I might wait to see what BB has to offer ... in the meantime I'll probably use the simple cheats I found. Ok ... so I'm a bit lazy.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
EClark1894 posted Fri, 08 April 2016 at 9:46 PM
Boni posted Wed, 13 April 2016 at 6:33 AM
Good call Clarkie, Let's see about converting these to Superfly? I did work on that a couple months ago ... I will look in my runtimes later this morning.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
EClark1894 posted Wed, 11 May 2016 at 12:20 AM
EClark1894 posted Wed, 11 May 2016 at 3:35 PM
Boni posted Fri, 09 February 2018 at 9:13 AM
Bumping this again for Clarkie!! Never did get to the Superfly shaders, but will as soon as I can ... working on a PE project at the moment.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
bantha posted Sat, 10 February 2018 at 4:19 AM
Since BagginsBill did not publish his shader yet, you may start with this:
This allows you to connect different shaders to Tile1, Tile2 and Mortar. The tile node above is used to generate the Tiles, the colors there are just for separating the components. Use the Color, Roughness and Bump inputs on the compound nodes to connect your own shader.
The size of the tiles can be changes with the tiles node. If you have a normal node, connect the normal compound node with the normal input on the Root node and connect your normal maps to the compound node.
Probably just a starter, but maybe helpfull to some.
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but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
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Grace" Hopper
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Boni posted Sat, 10 February 2018 at 8:02 AM
bantha! This is amazing! thank you!!!
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
seachnasaigh posted Sat, 10 February 2018 at 1:36 PM
This is another method of avoiding the wood/marble texture pattern continuing from one tile/board to the next.
You could also use black in the RGB map and add another marble/wood tile.
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EClark1894 posted Thu, 07 November 2019 at 12:54 PM
EClark1894 posted Thu, 07 November 2019 at 6:56 PM
bagginsbill posted at 7:55PM Thu, 07 November 2019 - #3800461
For those that have no use for math and matmatic, here is the setup that produces the Corner function. The math node Math_Functions_7 is the k value. In this screen shot, k is 4.
I must be doing something wrong because I can't even make the tile render.
bagginsbill posted Fri, 08 November 2019 at 3:34 PM
That post only works in FireFly. Are you doing SuperFly? Displacement can't really be used for tiles in SuperFly. Try using the bump channel instead of displacement with the same node setup.
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EClark1894 posted Fri, 08 November 2019 at 3:55 PM