I know this could open up a can of worms, but I am wondering if people who have Poser 8 or above have looked at the new Daz 4 and come to any conclusions regarding how it stacks up against Poser 8 or Poser Pro 2010?

Looking at the demo videos of Daz 4 I have to say, on first glance, it looks slicker and easier to use than Poser.

So what say you? Daz 4 better than Poser now?

I've tried the beta. I don't think the interface is easier to use than Poser's but then I'm totally Poserized ;). As for comparrisons, you can't really make them anymore. Two different animals. Which is better is purely subjective. Me? I'd rather have my dynamic cloth and hair - two things you can't get in DS. It doesn't even have dynamic hair and the cloth is proprietary. I can't use my own creations. That's a deal breaker for me.

Laurie

Quote - the cloth is proprietary. I can't use my own creations. That's a deal breaker for me.

Laurie

 

Ditto!!

It's probably better to wait for the Advanced and Pro versions to come out before you compare.

 

 

Coldrake

Oooo are we gonna have hair and cloth that will accept our own models?

Quote - Oooo are we gonna have hair and cloth that will accept our own models?

:m_laugh:

Interestingly, I asked that question before on that other forum, and was politely ignored.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

I'm going to hasten a bet that the answer is no.

Silke

I'm not sure it's down to which program is better, more which figures do people want to use.  If you really want to use the new Genesis figure then DS is a must.  More to the point will V5 be usable in Poser at all?

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D

DAZ will lose too much revenue if they don't make the new figures compatible with Poser, I can't see them doing that. I imagine they will release them some weeks after the DS ones though.

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

M5/V5/K5  etc,  will just be 'shapes' for Genesis. the Genesis figure WILL NOT WORK IN POSER.

DAZ are NOT going to make Genesis compatible with Poser. SM will have to adopt the Figures technology in the next version ( if they want to,of course)

do not bank on EVER seeing a Dynamic Cloth creation plug-in ( not Optitex based, anyway)

Well, DAZ has just lost a follower... I will not upgrade to 4... Sorry but I don't believe in so many plugs in to do one bloody thing!. Poser will have do its thing between it and Bryce.  Oh well...

===========================================================

OS: Windows 11 64-bit
Poser: Poser 11.3 ...... Units: inches or meters depends on mood
Bryce: Bryce Pro 7.1.074
Image Editing: Corel Paintshop Pro
Renderer: Superfly, Firefly

9/11/2001: Never forget...

Smiles are contagious... Pass it on!

Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday

 

Hmmm...

Poser UI - kinda clunky but usable

Blender 2.5x UI - different, still

ZBrush UI - let's make this harder than it needs to be

HoudiniMaster UI - a skull f***

DS4 UI - made for Timmy, by Timmy (SouthPark ref.)

DS4 is yet another poorly implemented and inadequately documented DAZ release.

Usability of DS4 is less than optimal, changing things "just for the sake of change" is not good design planning.

Example, access for the zero, drop to floor, memorize, etc has been moved from the right side of the screen to the left and hidden behind a drop down on the left of the tab rather than on the right as in previous versions.

Yet another failure, as it stands right now, if you want a UI in DS4 that isn't directed toward a 4 year old with ADHD and a lack of fine motor skills you'll have to pay for it.

Several of the older members have mentioned the difficulty seeing the text on the tabs due to the color scheme and the prevailing responses from the powers that deign to reply run along the lines of, "Sorry 'bout your luck foggie, we're really not interested in your geldt. "

The new PR Liaison/Product Manager  tends to blame any short comings as user error and or user hardware related, regardless of origin. Generally in a quite condesending way.

After kicking the tires on this release I have to say that if DS4 were my intro to 3d I'd look for something else or go back to traditional media.

I don't see myself using DS4 or creating any Gen5 content.

Quote - M5/V5/K5  etc,  will just be 'shapes' for Genesis. the Genesis figure WILL NOT WORK IN POSER.

DAZ are NOT going to make Genesis compatible with Poser. SM will have to adopt the Figures technology in the next version ( if they want to,of course)

do not bank on EVER seeing a Dynamic Cloth creation plug-in ( not Optitex based, anyway)

It had not occured to me that DAZ would not release a stand alone V5 figure.  I mean Genesis is a good mesh, the different shapes are great and the joints look pretty good.  But all that information in one figure wouldn't make it very usable if you wanted multiple figures in a scene.  I realise that a lot of people only have one or two figures in a scene, but probably as many do.

I think Genesis on it's own would limit the market too much.  Besides the usage numbers for the figures are almost certainly weighted heavily towards Victoria and the other female figures, how many people are going to rush to Genesis because it can be all sorts of other figures?

Don't get me wrong I personally think Genesis is a great figure, I have played with it a bit and I like the way you can mix and match shapes to get a wide variety of looks.  And the cloth fitting plugin really is a great idea.  Unlike previous figure releases where you lost the ability to use all your old outfits, this plugin will do a pretty good job of fitting them to Genesis.

I still believe that the market share is going to depend on how many people want to use the Genesis figure, or a new Vicky if they release one.  If you need DS4 to use it, then ultimately people will migrate to DS4, if not then things will stay more or less as they are.

John

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D

I have to agree, I just don't understand the changes to the UI. They already had a perfectly decent and almost infinitely customisable UI. It had a major drawback in that it could only display a limited number of morph channels, but I'm sure they could have fixed that without turning it into something by Fisher Price. You can immediately make it a lot less annoying by in changing the style to Highway, (makes the text and buttons smaller) and the Workspace Layout to Self Serve or City Limits. (Don't know why they chose such twee names).

**"**M5/V5/K5  etc,  will just be 'shapes' for Genesis. the Genesis figure WILL NOT WORK IN POSER.

DAZ are NOT going to make Genesis compatible with Poser. SM will have to adopt the Figures technology in the next version ( if they want to,of course)"

 

Correct !!!!

 

Cheers

 

 

**Cheers
**

My website

YouTube Channel

Will Pozer files work in Daz4?

 

 

Quote - If you need DS4 to use it, then ultimately people will migrate to DS4, if not then things will stay more or less as they are. John

One of the few things I disagree with you on John..lolol. I don't think people will switch to DS en masse just to use Genesis. I really don't. I know I won't ;). I like my Poser. I plan to stay with it, no matter if there is a Vicky 5 I can use in it or not...lol. I don't think I'm alone ;).

Laurie

I go with you Laurie :-))))

Quote - Will Pozer files work in Daz4?

What kind of Poser files? Some will, like props and such (I think). Not sure about figures. I can't answer that one. Maybe someone else knows :).

Laurie

I render in Vue and that works well with Poser but not so well with DS, so I'll be sticking with Poser also. For what I do I don't need any more figures, I don't use all the ones I have now..

Injustice will be avenged.
Cofiwch Dryweryn.

Quote - **"**M5/V5/K5  etc,  will just be 'shapes' for Genesis. the Genesis figure WILL NOT WORK IN POSER.

DAZ are NOT going to make Genesis compatible with Poser. SM will have to adopt the Figures technology in the next version ( if they want to,of course)"

 

Correct !!!!

 

Cheers

 

 

**Cheers
**

 

 

Then this should be interesting. It may not kill Daz but it will impact their bottom line. Daz lives and dies on human fiqure creations yeah they sell other stuff but figures, clothing and accessories for these figures have always been their flagship products. If one feels Daz can live on sales of props, creatures and funky software to make up the falling sales of 5 series figures then so be it but it ain't gonna happen. But realistically speaking time will tell it's hard to say what Daz is truly going to do in the end. This isn't a bunch of individuals selling velvet pictures of Elvis out of their van on the side of the road. ;)

For me I've stated the reasons why I don't use D/S and most likely never will. Mostly it's all the extra plugins you have to purchase to get it to come close to what Poser does without any plugins and it's lack of playing well with Vue infinite and Xstream.

My Facebook Page

figures rigged with P7 type tools/conventions will work in DS4 ( as in DS3 etc)

figures rigged like Miki3 do not work in DS ( but can have the rigging tweaked to do so)

anything that uses PMD will work up to DS3 ( with a script from the Freepozitory)

.pp2, ,cr2, ,hr2  etc work fine in all versions of DS.

Poser procedurals/shaders do not work in DS, ordinary materials/textures do ( need adjustment in Surfaces usually)

lights and cameras do work in DS, but not in a predictable way ( and any lights with images attached will not show the image, native DS default lights have no channel to plug an image file into)

dzShader lights CAN have a channel for an image, and of course the 'uberlights' do have a channel to plug  images into.

magnets do work in DS ( they get converted to D-Form, but may not do exactly the same as in Poser)

 

 nearly forgot, MT5 and MC6 files do not work in DS ( but can sometimes be converted to .pz2, then they work, but without any of the procedural/shaders, just the basic texture, if applicable)

 

hope this helps

Quote - > Quote - If you need DS4 to use it, then ultimately people will migrate to DS4, if not then things will stay more or less as they are. John

One of the few things I disagree with you on John..lolol. I don't think people will switch to DS en masse just to use Genesis. I really don't. I know I won't ;). I like my Poser. I plan to stay with it, no matter if there is a Vicky 5 I can use in it or not...lol. I don't think I'm alone ;).

Laurie

I don't think for a moment that people will go en masse.  There will always be a group of people who will use Poser and a group who use DS and those who use both.

I think that going over to the DS side will depend on a number of factors for people.

Cost, Figures and Ease of use.

For most people it will be a combination of those factors.  I think the big shift will come from vendors.  We may see a diversification as vendors move towards the larger market, at the moment it is Poser but it won't take much for DS to catch up and take over.  At the moment it is not so much of a point, as V4 content can be made for both without too much trouble.  If however the large market share goes to Genesis then it may become financially unviable to produce for Poser.

Not just as in the user community there will e people who use Poser and always will, there will be Vendors who stick wilth Poser.  But will the quality vendors stay, the top guys who do this for a living, when there may be a more commercially viable market elsewhere.  Will they do it for both platforms?

I can tell you from experience that putting a product together can take some considerable time, making an outfit for one figure on two platforms is a serious undertaking.  Making an outfit for 2 figures on 2 different platforms is going to extend product dev time enough to make anyone think hard about which platform to support.

On the other hand :) maybe it is going to shake things up enough to give the market the kick up the backside that it has needed for a while.  A diversification that will refresh support for both platforms.

Only time will tell :)

John.

Fugazi (without the aid of a safety net)

https://www.facebook.com/Fugazi3D

With all the talented people in the community I can't see there not being a nice Poser figure to rival Victoria and her relatives ;). Hopefully some will step up to the plate if newer versions of Poser do not support Daz Gen 5 figures. If it does, there won't be a thing to worry about....lol. I'm hoping for the latter of course, but the other option might be nice too :). After all, I use Mankahoo's Angela most of the time now - a figure which is neither Daz nor from SM :).

Laurie

Here I am weighing in late on my opinion... I am with Laurie on this... If Daz wants to cut its knee off, I ain't gonna to help... I'll still purchase items like clothes and the like but specifically for the version 3 and 4 (or much earlier version) of its flagship characters... And of course the props (some props free and otherwise) that will work in Poser and are made for Poser but will work in Studio 3 (various incarnation of it). And of course, then there's Bryce... That is one of the bright spot in all of DAZdom imho. Until someone comes along and show me another software that does what Bryce does easily and more brillantly and doesn't cost more than Bryce(and also has a loyal follwoing and a world helpful community)...

Anyway, that's MHO... :laugh:

===========================================================

OS: Windows 11 64-bit
Poser: Poser 11.3 ...... Units: inches or meters depends on mood
Bryce: Bryce Pro 7.1.074
Image Editing: Corel Paintshop Pro
Renderer: Superfly, Firefly

9/11/2001: Never forget...

Smiles are contagious... Pass it on!

Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday

 

Hm. One more for the stick-to-Poser-group.

 

I think Daz' figures are not the only ones with a bubblehead problem if they think they can make me switch to DS for their V5. I like Poser, I learned and learn it, and I want to use other stores add-ons in my application, not just from the creator.

 

But - I can't imagine that. They have vendors that use Poser, and Poser only, and I'm pretty sure DAZ didn't get where they are because they had a bad business sense. Their figures are their power, yes, but the compatibility is what makes them valuable.

 

And as SM knows that their figures can't really compare, I guess it is just a question of the right amount of money to change owners so both DS users and Poser users and DAz and SM can all be happy... :laugh:

for me it's a simple thing, which I see no one else has really touched on.

 

this new tech, right now is only in 1 application. it's good tech and needed. but.. never be an early adopter if a lot of money's involved. 

a lesson learnt by anyone thats paid for HD DVD, Betamax, Minidisk...etc and ended up with useless toys after awhile.

 

if the tech takes off - and that means in more than 1 application and ppl actually use it - then I'm in.

but I don't have the money to gamble and I've been burnt before by promises made about new technology that ended up going nowhere to just leap in.

I have not worked in DZS yet but I can tell you Im very impressed with the lighting I see in others work. Im feeling its much better then Posers; or maybe its done In post work I really dont know.

I cant wait to install my copy and start useing; Im just waiting until I upgrad my system to 64bit and get a bigger hard drive.

Quote - I have not worked in DZS yet but I can tell you Im very impressed with the lighting I see in others work. Im feeling its much better then Posers; or maybe its done In post work I really dont know.

What you've seen is a result of the Reality plugin for DAZ.  It serves as a bridge between DAZ and Luxrender to produce real-world lighting effects and physically-based texture shading.

This was the first render I did after installing it two months ago, when Reality 1.2 was released.  Suffice it to say, it turned DAZ back into my primary app.

Unfortunately, after downloading a copy of DS4 and trying it out first-hand, I am not impressed with the changes they've made to the UI.  In fact, the experience I've had watching the development cycle of DS4 has left me with a very strong desire to return to Poser again.  I just wish I could wrap my head around Pose2Lux.

That's very nice. I like Luxrender's lights as well. Even if I do get there a little differently (I use Pose2Lux) ;). The downside is you need to have patience for those marathon Luxrender renders...lolol.

Laurie

Quote - That's very nice. I like Luxrender's lights as well. Even if I do get there a little differently (I use Pose2Lux) ;). The downside is you need to have patience for those marathon Luxrender renders...lolol.

Thanks.

Yeah, Lux is an awesome test of patience.  The longest render time I've read so far was 600 hours.  I would hate to find even the tiniest flaw after that much time.  O.O

Here's the thing. DAZ isn't shooting itself in the foot.  Let's say that Poser decides NOT to adopt the Genesis technology. DAZ will continue to sell Genesis to it's own Studio users plus Carrara and Bryce users. Genesis just simply not be on a par with V4, which by the way will still work in DS4 and Poser.

I'm not going to lose any sleep one way or the other because I'll probably continue to use Poser regardless.

As for vendors I've said it before, they'll go where the money is, which means that they'll probably stay with V4 until they see evidence of a surge in Genesis' popularity.

How well the whole Gensis concept will depend upon how well the vendors support it and how much revenue DAZ takes in.

How many vendors and riggers really want to spend time learning an entirely new rigging system?  I and the people I work for sure as heck don't. 

I played with the Gensis concept months ago when DAZ offered their Project X alpha for testing.  The theory is nice but impracticle.  Genesis is a lower poly mesh that depends on subD.  Which means it's going to be more difficult than anyone realizes to morph a believalble male figure out of that mesh. 

DAZ is taking a calculated risk here.  It may pay off and it may fail.  They took one when they decided to give all their base models away for free.  Based on the fact their "free forever" lasted only about a year, means it didn't pay off.

The orginal concept of DS base app being free was based on the "so long as content sales" support it premise.  The standard version of DS that is currently being offered for free is only free for a short time and then DAZ begins to charge for it.

If DAZ wasn't offering DS4 Standard for free right now, how many users who paid $1.88 for DS Advanced about eight months ago would be interested in shelling out another $49 right now.  If you want to use any V4 cothing with the Genesis figure, you have to shell out another $49 if you are a PC member and $69 if you aren't for the AutoFit plugin. 

As for the Genesis figure itself, it's one figure.  Just like SMS Miki3.  Vendors are going to look at their market and decide if they want to stick to a proven figure with a proven market or go with a new figure that is limited to only one portion of the Poser/DS market.  And I'm not just pointing at DAZ.  SMS has done the same thing.  Had they kept Miki3 compatible with legacy versions of Poser and DS, they might have made more money.  By closing their own market, they strangled themselves.  But then I expect it from SMS.  They still have a lot to learn about Poser.  DAZ, however, has been in content creation business for a long time.  This is not a move I would have expected out of them.

Quote - I've tried the beta. I don't think the interface is easier to use than Poser's but then I'm totally Poserized ;). As for comparrisons, you can't really make them anymore. Two different animals. Which is better is purely subjective. Me? I'd rather have my dynamic cloth and hair - two things you can't get in DS. It doesn't even have dynamic hair and the cloth is proprietary. I can't use my own creations. That's a deal breaker for me.

Laurie

The same thing for me. I put so much work and time into making my own dynamic cloth that in its current state DS is nearly useless for me with this restriction, no matter what kind of figure and bending it has.

I fear, walking away from Poser compatibility was a HUGE strategic mistake.
HUGE !!!

I think the Lower Poly was by far their only good idea.
17K is about ideal if the poly's are in the right place.
=> NOT in the ear :-)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - I fear, walking away from Poser compatibility was a HUGE strategic mistake.
HUGE !!!

I think the Lower Poly was by far their only good idea.
17K is about ideal if the poly's are in the right place.
=> NOT in the ear :-)

 

I do have to chuckle a bit, though! After months of them saying that they did not want to create a schism in the  Poser community, they release a figure designed to do just that!:b_grin:

Well, I'm just going to add my 2 cents.

 

I was a very loyal DS user; of DS2 and DS3A.  Bought all the plugins, spent all the money, even did my commercial development in DS.

I took one look at the DS4 BETA and upgraded Poser 7 to Poser 8 with plans to move up to Poser2010. 

I will never again touch that Fischer Price piece of software.  It's garbage; junk written for tweens.  See Gizmoz.com and you'll understand EXACTLY who DAZ thinks are their customers now.  Then, you'll understand the UI.

I'll use DS3A for testing until it dies, but I'll never install DS4 on one of my computers - not even for my grandkids to play the Daz version of The Disney Fairies.

 

I am using Poser for a long time.I have tried DazStudio 4 during this week-end and i like it

I have imported many Poser files ,miki3 included,without problem.I have also used poses, hair,prop and clothes from different runtimes without problem

I have used genesis figure and find it is limited with this free version

Something occurred to me and I'll admit that I'm not really up on DS and all it's plugins and products, but...

As it stands now, as far as products go, there is some content at Daz and other brokerages that require multiple other products just to be able to use them. Will there theoretically be products now that will require not only other products to be able to use it, but also other plugins as well? With the multple versions I'm not sure how that would work. It's the reason I hate the plugin system for this type of software ;). This could be a mess that I just don't want to have to keep after personally. With Poser, I only need Poser...hehe. If something works in Poser 8, it also works in 2010 and vice versa.

I could be way off base, but the potential exists, doesn't it?

Laurie

Quote - DAZ will lose too much revenue if they don't make the new figures compatible with Poser, I can't see them doing that. I imagine they will release them some weeks after the DS ones though.

 

Too bad that dog won't hunt anymore. The new figures are not going to be made Poser compatible. The ball is in SM's court to make Poser compatible to the new figures. Frankly I am glad they're finally moving away from Poser towards their own agenda. It's about time.

Oh, one more thing that occurred to me ;)...

Even IF SM manages to make the new Gen 5's work in Poser 9+, you'd STILL need to buy DS4 Pro or assorted DS plugins to make anything for them. Please, someone who knows tell me I'm wrong about that...lol.

If that's the case (and I hope I'm wrong) then Daz has cut the content market off at the knees - including their little corner of it.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - DAZ will lose too much revenue if they don't make the new figures compatible with Poser, I can't see them doing that. I imagine they will release them some weeks after the DS ones though.

 

Too bad that dog won't hunt anymore. The new figures are not going to be made Poser compatible. The ball is in SM's court to make Poser compatible to the new figures. Frankly I am glad they're finally moving away from Poser towards their own agenda. It's about time.

 

And why is that?

It is probably a little early to be trying to answer this question, if only
because I think this release has been a bit premature. They clearly aren't
quite there yet on the development front - and some of the objections people
have to it are slated to be dealt with later (such as the UI which we are told
will have a developer kit released). The central reason for release at all is
the new Genesis figure which is still rather basic and looks to remain so until
the release of the V5 etc products. Given that this standard edition is set to
remain free for some months, it is not immediately clear why they have released
this early.

One explanation that comes to mind is that they want to have DS4 sitting on as many
computers as possible so as to maximise the number of potential customers for
V5 - and if they want to charge for that product independently of Studio, then
an interval between releases would make some sense.

Some concern has been raised about the cost of Studio but if I remember correctly,
DAZ are obligated to have a reasonably functional version available for free in
order to avoid having to pay rather a lot of money to licence the render
engine, a cost that would have to be reflected in the cost of Studio. (If the
new generation of figures is soon to be released, then that would also go some
way to explaining their making the 4th generation bases pay for items rather
than free - which did seem a little like shutting the barn door after they had
all bolted. If there is a free alternative, then new customers will most likely
go for that and many may stick with it for some time but if there is a choice
between which base product to pay for, then they are most likely to buy the
newest one)

It is particularly hard to judge the impact of Studio and Genesis until we know
what is happening in Poser 9 - and for that we shall have to wait for its
release. If there is a significant gap between the release of V5 and Poser 9,
then the principle and first impact will be on the early sales of V5 and of
support for it. Poser users who might be swayed from Poser to Studio for the
new figure are still likely to play 'wait and see' until P9 shows up, which
means that, if all Studio users take up the new figure, its potential customer
base could still be as little as half of that for V4, so that initially most
third party support will remain with the older figures and the larger customer
base.

If Poser 9 can support Genesis (and despite what they say, given how it is
embedded within the DS4 installation, DAZ will have to cover some of the ground
to meet SM with a Studio independent installation) then, assuming DAZ have also
released the various planned versions of Studio, we can try to meaningfully
compare them. But not until then.

On the other hand, if Poser 9 cannot support Genesis, then there might be some
migration to Studio but comparisons of the two might be less meaningful. Of
course, if SM manage to pull a rabbit from their hat, providing base figures
that can compare to the DAZ range, then we will have a whole new ball game.

It's as I've been saying all along. This is a power play by DAZ to dominate the Poser community. I don't really blame them. I suppose I would do the same if I were in their shoes. 

Still, Smith Micro has to  read this very carefully. Honestly, I don't think they'll loose very many if any users to Studio. Truth is, they'll probably gain as many as they lose. I just don't see people leaving Poser just to use a figure. You didn't have that happen with Miki3, or Ryan and Alyson.

I also find it very telling that DAZ made no attempt to include Poser's new rigging into Studio 4. Of course that seems to be the way DAZ plays ball doesn't it? One-sided.

You keep on assuming that SM gave DAZ the information before doing the new setup.

Also, I really don't see anyone leaving a program to use Ryan and Alyson, sorry. Other figures with new technology? Possibly.

Quote - Also, I really don't see anyone leaving a program to use Ryan and Alyson, sorry. Other figures with new technology? Possibly.

In all fairness, I can't see anyone ditching DS for Ryan and Alyson or any of the Poser figures either ;). Opinions may differ....lol. I only ditch Vicky for other non-SM figures...lol.

Laurie

Quote - I know this could open up a can of worms, but I am wondering if people who have Poser 8 or above have looked at the new Daz 4 and come to any conclusions regarding how it stacks up against Poser 8 or Poser Pro 2010? Looking at the demo videos of Daz 4 I have to say, on first glance, it looks slicker and easier to use than Poser.

So what say you? Daz 4 better than Poser now?

Both programs have different ways of doing the same thing.  It comes down to what models do you need to buy and then use the app that works best with them.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

It's funny that Someone in the Poser forum brings out the toppic and the only ones that answer are hardcore Poser users. Of course they gonna say Poser is the best.

Quote - It's funny that Someone in the Poser forum brings out the toppic and the only ones that answer are hardcore Poser users. Of course they gonna say Poser is the best.

 

who were you expecting to answer? the 32nd Highland Regiment? the Mormon  Tabernacle Choir? 

Quote - > Quote - It's funny that Someone in the Poser forum brings out the toppic and the only ones that answer are hardcore Poser users. Of course they gonna say Poser is the best.

 

who were you expecting to answer? the 32nd Highland Regiment? the Mormon  Tabernacle Choir? 

cough...Poser forum. I think a lot of people that frequent the place are Poser users. I know I don't tend to go and hang out over in the Daz Studio forum...

Here's a suggestion: go over to the Daz Studio forum and ask the same question. I bet I can guess the trend over there ;).

Laurie

Quote - I will never again touch that Fischer Price piece of software.  It's garbage; junk written for tweens.  See Gizmoz.com and you'll understand EXACTLY who DAZ thinks are their customers now.  Then, you'll understand the UI.

:lol:  :lol:

===========================sigline======================================================

Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking.  He apologizes for this.  He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.

Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below.  His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.

Quote - It's funny that Someone in the Poser forum brings out the toppic and the only ones that answer are hardcore Poser users. Of course they gonna say Poser is the best.

2006 - Cut my teeth on 3D with DS.

2010 - Switched to Poser 8 last June, after tiring of waiting for third-party developers to update their plugins for DS 3.  I also wanted learn how to work with dynamic clothing, and the OptiTex plugin for DS is still proprietary two years after DAZ promised an update for user-created content.  I sidegraded to Poser Pro 2010 a week later to get access to a couple more features I wanted.

2011 - Switched back to DS in March, after seeing what the Reality plugin could do.

I insalled DS 4 Friday night, and toyed around with it for a few hours.  Even after customizing the style and layout to maximize my work space, the large parameter dials and menu tabs still take up more space than necessary when opened, and make me feel like I'm in Pre-School.  DAZ has already confirmed that they're abandoning the DS 3 UI in favor of this "new and improved" version.  As a result, in response to feedback, the same guy who designed it is now designing a tweaked version of the DS3 UI for DS 4, on his own time, via DAZ's in-house Broker program.  I don't appreciate the idea that I'm going to have to pay for his effort just to regain access to a UI that I've been accustomed to for the last 5 years.

That, combined with the overall experience I've had watching DS 4's development cycle, have given me cause to switch back to Poser.  Now I'm learning how to use Pose2Lux so I can break my dependence on DS for a Lux bridge.

Going forward, I won't be supporting DAZ Studio anymore, but will continue buying content from DAZ 3D as long as it remains compatible with Poser.

On that note, GOD it feels GREAT to be using Poser's Content Library again!  I spent all day Saturday running lighting tests with the Firefly engine and LOVE having only one set of content files to work with without having to configure multiple directory paths for two different programs.

Quote - It's funny that Someone in the Poser forum brings out the toppic and the only ones that answer are hardcore Poser users. Of course they gonna say Poser is the best.

 

perhaps you ought to actually read all posts about DS4 before you jump to conclusions.

i, for one, was a diehard DS user, this no longer applies. i am saving for PP20--.

i already have P7 and P8 for testing purposes, which will be seeing MUCH more use for personal work from now on.

DS4 is a crappy Kiddies toy from Fisher Price now.

As I understand it, its just DSF import that DAZ has offered to third parties (including Poser)?

The DSF file import is what DAZ are using to get V5 into Carrara. They report having a working version in-house.

How much of the 'mix and match' Genesis capabilities are left after being squirted through a DSF file? I don't know, we'll find out with Carrara!

Carrara's Genesis capabilities could well be an indication of what Poser could get with DSF import.

regards
prixat

Quote - You keep on assuming that SM gave DAZ the information before doing the new setup.

Also, I really don't see anyone leaving a program to use Ryan and Alyson, sorry. Other figures with new technology? Possibly.

Not really the point I was making about Alyson, Ryan and Miki. And to be honest Alyson and Ryan are pretty much tied to Poser 8. Something i just read recently by Steve Cooper on the Poser blog gives me a little insight as to how they perceive the figures for Poser vs. the Mil 4 figures anyway.

But yeah, DAZ says that they've been in talks with SM. I'm assuming thats been a two way street.

lets stop acting like new rigging system is bad. its better. its more realistic. end of story.

 

poser needs it. so lets hope for the best.

Quote - lets stop acting like new rigging system is bad. its better. its more realistic. end of story.

 

poser needs it. so lets hope for the best.

 

I really don't think that anyone is of the opinion that a new rigging system is bad or that Poser wouldn't be improved with new rigging. The discussions that have been going on are largely speculation about the future relationship between DAZ and Poser, and about the business implications of DAZ's new directions. People who have invested in a software and content for it are entitled to be concerned about its future - nought wrong in that.

Though it does strike me that most complaints against DS4 itself, from both sides, have little to do with the rigging.

Quote - Something occurred to me and I'll admit that I'm not really up on DS and all it's plugins and products, but...

As it stands now, as far as products go, there is some content at Daz and other brokerages that require multiple other products just to be able to use them. Will there theoretically be products now that will require not only other products to be able to use it, but also other plugins as well? With the multple versions I'm not sure how that would work. It's the reason I hate the plugin system for this type of software ;). This could be a mess that I just don't want to have to keep after personally. With Poser, I only need Poser...hehe. If something works in Poser 8, it also works in 2010 and vice versa.

I could be way off base, but the potential exists, doesn't it?

Laurie

They've already done so - see the Elite Human Surface Shader.  Many of the DS characters require HSS.  So many, in fact, that Daz had to release it free to get people to buy the characters.

They've already tried that little ploy and it was a miserable failure.

 

Quote - > Quote - Something occurred to me and I'll admit that I'm not really up on DS and all it's plugins and products, but...

As it stands now, as far as products go, there is some content at Daz and other brokerages that require multiple other products just to be able to use them. Will there theoretically be products now that will require not only other products to be able to use it, but also other plugins as well? With the multple versions I'm not sure how that would work. It's the reason I hate the plugin system for this type of software ;). This could be a mess that I just don't want to have to keep after personally. With Poser, I only need Poser...hehe. If something works in Poser 8, it also works in 2010 and vice versa.

I could be way off base, but the potential exists, doesn't it?

Laurie

They've already done so - see the Elite Human Surface Shader.  Many of the DS characters require HSS.  So many, in fact, that Daz had to release it free to get people to buy the characters.

They've already tried that little ploy and it was a miserable failure.

 

Eek. Well, there's only one word for that. "Clusterf**k....lol.

Laurie

whait a second.

 

they are forcing you to use a shader with DAZ?

No

Quote - whait a second.

 

they are forcing you to use a shader with DAZ?

 

What I said was they are selling products using HSS.  If you purchase those products you MUST have HSS or they will not work.

Is that more plain now?

Quote - > Quote - You keep on assuming that SM gave DAZ the information before doing the new setup.

Also, I really don't see anyone leaving a program to use Ryan and Alyson, sorry. Other figures with new technology? Possibly.

Not really the point I was making about Alyson, Ryan and Miki. And to be honest Alyson and Ryan are pretty much tied to Poser 8. Something i just read recently by Steve Cooper on the Poser blog gives me a little insight as to how they perceive the figures for Poser vs. the Mil 4 figures anyway.

But yeah, DAZ says that they've been in talks with SM. I'm assuming thats been a two way street.

 

What'd he say?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - You keep on assuming that SM gave DAZ the information before doing the new setup.

Also, I really don't see anyone leaving a program to use Ryan and Alyson, sorry. Other figures with new technology? Possibly.

Not really the point I was making about Alyson, Ryan and Miki. And to be honest Alyson and Ryan are pretty much tied to Poser 8. Something i just read recently by Steve Cooper on the Poser blog gives me a little insight as to how they perceive the figures for Poser vs. the Mil 4 figures anyway.

But yeah, DAZ says that they've been in talks with SM. I'm assuming thats been a two way street.

 

What'd he say?

He said: "When sculpting the figures we used Freedom of Teach's excellent human models as a reference for proportion, bone protuberances, and musculature. Are they perfect? Considering that we created full collection in an incredibly tight time-frame, no. But they really work well, are very mutable and very closely follow real-world proportions. There are without a doubt some limitations in how the figures can pose, as is with most 3D figures. We are confident we've achieved a high point with the new Poser 8 figures."

I was personally turned away when I discovered the Genesis figures couldn't take any of my Morphs for V4 previous.  I am NOT going to give them more money for the same frikking functionality I had before, especially when it costs so much frikking money!

Sorry, I just realized how much more irking it is that everything costs so much, and how they seem so money grubbing.  Sure, I'd like 80 dollars to piss away on Reality, or 50 on a cloth room which uses its own, secular clothing.  And that Genesis will just be their answer to Millenium... I am glad to have my Posette still.

Poser all the way, here, unless they are willing to let me use my morphs on Genesis, and give us a non-crippled piece of software that won't cost so much to upgrade to the functionality Poser has, far past the price of Poser itself.

I would like to think that DAZ would offer pre-release V5 figures to SM so they could have them to work on incorporating them into Poser.  Maybe they even charge them!

Poser is good for TOols and setting up figures/clothes.

Why doesn't Poser copy DAZ in terms of animating tools...OR i mean copy Gofigure and aniblocks, etc.

Poser works on keyframing but that's too tedious for repetitive animation. You have to do everything by hand as if you were working like a traditional 2D animator. Computers are supposed to make things easeir.

So, if you want Poser to get better, you should give it a GOFigure Animate2 type of system AND also keep the keyframing capabilities that Poser has.

 

 

 

 

 About to give D4 a try-  THEN I can DUMP on Daz with a clear conscience. :-)

As someone who barely worked with D3 I hope to view the new interface without predjudice.

 

 As of now methinks Daz has better human figures-and PoserPro2010 is a better program for my needs-

 

I doubt I'll ever switch to DS because I've been with Poser too long. If I had started off with DS like others have, it might be different. Even with all of Poser's bugs, I choose it over DS. I also use Vue with Poser.

If DS had a plugin to export to Poser I might think about using it more, or a plugin to export from Carrara directly to Poser without having to go through DS. Too much is lost with OBJ exports.

I'm not interested in Gen5 figures when Gen4 figures work just fine for me. I'm also tired of wasting more money on new clothing for models especially when there is virtually no support for male figures. If it weren't for Renderosity and PoserAddicts, I'd give up entirely on purchasing any clothing for models.

Another thing I don't like is that the PA's are creating content for DS only and alienating Poser users. Many times I see something at the DAZ store that I want, but it's only for DS. I expect one day there will be no Poser content at all and we'll either have to start using DS or move on to other sites.

Poser 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, Pro 2014, 11, 11 Pro

Quote - I doubt I'll ever switch to DS because I've been with Poser too long. If I had started off with DS like others have, it might be different. Even with all of Poser's bugs, I choose it over DS. I also use Vue with Poser.

If DS had a plugin to export to Poser I might think

I don't like DAZ so much now (see above), but there is this here:

http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=8040

It's a freebie plugin.  I will admit I use DAZ for posing figures most of the time (Power Poser is far superior to anying in Poser proper), so I make oft use of this.

In all fairness, most of the content that Daz sells is also Poser compatible. That of course may change down the road, but for now, most things you can buy at the store you can use in Poser.

Laurie

Quote - I was personally turned away when I discovered the Genesis figures couldn't take any of my Morphs for V4 previous.  I am NOT going to give them more money for the same frikking functionality I had before, especially when it costs so much frikking money!

v4 doesn't take V3 morphs, v3 doesn't take V2 morphs.......you were thinking it would be different this time?

There's a lot more functionality in the Genesis figures than there ever was in V4.

 

 

Coldrake

Quote - > Quote - I was personally turned away when I discovered the Genesis figures couldn't take any of my Morphs for V4 previous.  I am NOT going to give them more money for the same frikking functionality I had before, especially when it costs so much frikking money!

v4 doesn't take V3 morphs, v3 doesn't take V2 morphs.......you were thinking it would be different this time?

There's a lot more functionality in the Genesis figures than there ever was in V4.

 

 

Coldrake

I guess I shouldn't've.  It's just irking, because it'll take her textures just fine, and because this was such a striking similarity to the one it was replacing, I guess I was hoping a little too much for a payer bonus.

Quote - but it's only for DS. I expect one day there will be no Poser content at all and we'll either have to start using DS or move on to other sites.

 ....or learn to model and Make your own...

Thats what I have Done.

 

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

Quote - Poser is good for TOols and setting up figures/clothes.

Why doesn't Poser copy DAZ in terms of animating tools...OR i mean copy Gofigure and aniblocks, etc.

Poser works on keyframing but that's too tedious for repetitive animation. You have to do everything by hand as if you were working like a traditional 2D animator. Computers are supposed to make things easeir.

So, if you want Poser to get better, you should give it a GOFigure Animate2 type of system AND also keep the keyframing capabilities that Poser has.

 

Aren't aniblocks nothing else but animated poses?
In Poser you have besides keyframing with all it's options, animation layers and animation sets.
Those give you plenty of options for creating repetitive animation.  

Yesterday's the past, tomorrow's the future, but today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.

"Aren't aniblocks nothing else but animated poses?"

Yes but you can Mix  them together seamlessly in a nonlinear fashion
you can even speed up/slow down trim or reverse them just like editing
Video Clips and then export the completed motion to poser Via the DAZ poser format exporter.

SEE CLIP

aniMate plus is the ONLY reason I bother to keep Daz Studio Installed at all
it is useless to me otherwise as I do all  of my rendering in Cinema4D R11 Studio with VRay or Maxwell
Via the ,
interposer plugin

Cheers

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I (personally) find Ryan and Alyson to look like aliens- I just can't seem to make myself create a Nekkid Alyson in a Temple with a Dragon-no matter what I do. Is there any better reason to own Poser? :-)

I thought P6 Jessica was a step in the right direction- I at least contemplated putting her in a Temple!

 

Quote - > Quote - Also, I really don't see anyone leaving a program to use Ryan and Alyson, sorry. Other figures with new technology? Possibly.

In all fairness, I can't see anyone ditching DS for Ryan and Alyson or any of the Poser figures either ;). Opinions may differ....lol. I only ditch Vicky for other non-SM figures...lol.

Laurie

I tried Daz Studio 2 or 3 years a go , if memory serves, and I wasn't impressed. Only thing you could do, was to play with pre-installed daz content. You couldn't import anything. A 3d program that doesn't let you use your own meshes? Let alone rig them? That's just silly - I  thought it was the dumbest thing ever invented. It was a program designed  to merely showcase Daz content.  I honestly thought it would never be succesful. It seems that I was wrong.

Recently, I ended up buying Bryce Pro, because it was cheap and because I wanted a program that could be used to  make beautiful scenery. Bryce seemed like a cheaper version of Vue. Then I found out that the damn thing wouldn't let you even import Poser files. But it would import daz files.  So, I decided to try out Daz studio again, but again I wasn't impressed. It seemed to be just as limited as before. First impresssions die hard, I guess.

I haven't used daz or Bryce ever since and I doubt I will be using Daz 4 either, even if Genesis  5 proves to be the best Daz figure ever.

I suppose it is time to model my own figures like wolf359 suggests, but I am not that good a modeler (yet?), to be honest. For now, I will stick with Poser, that's for sure and maybe start saving money for Lightwave or Maya.

D'oh! Why do things that happen to stupid people keep happening to me?

Actually, you can import Poser Runtimes into Daz Studio 3, including your own meshes. This is probably true of Daz Studio 4 as well. I've used Daz Studio (combined with Poser and including Daz rigging plugins) to build original figures. Building original content is a bit more complicated than learning how to load Poser Runtimes in Daz Studio.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

I do some animation in Poser and I have never felt I needed anything else. If you leave a gap between two poses you get a movement from one to the other. It may need some touch up.

What do aniblocks do if the end pose of 1 and the start pose of the next are not identical ?

It is true I have a bunch of scripts for repeating moves, adding random movements, and retiming a section, but they have been around for ages.

I am not in a position to spend more money on this hobby, so forget the new Daz figures and Studio 4. I will stay with Poser 7 and Lightwave and Carrara 5. 

I recenty downloaded DS4.

Here's my 2 cents..

The new UI is so so. Too many menus. Downright confusing. (even to someone using ds since 1.7)

Renders are fast.

 

Persosnally, it does NOT compare to Poser.

3D Digital Comics & Art/My homepage
http://www.edgeversemedia.com

You can import poser stuff into bryce, as well. I have been doing it since Bryce and Poser 1.

Quote - You can import poser stuff into bryce, as well. I have been doing it since Bryce and Poser 1.

You can?? Well that's a major fail on my part then. It's good to know though. I was ready to just ditch the program all together.  I have to re-install it once my computer has been fixed (that seems to be taking forever...). I guess I just assumed that I needed daz studio to do it because Daz advertized that Bryce would work well with Daz Studio. - That, and I am stupid, obviously.

I know you can import poser stuff into Daz, but when I did it the results were less than adequate. I think Miki's magnets didn't agree with the program, or something. What bothered me also was that you couldn't import 3ds or OBJ files directly into it. That you needed a work around.

D'oh! Why do things that happen to stupid people keep happening to me?

"What do aniblocks do if the end pose of 1 and the start pose of the next are not identical ?"

Unlike poser  the DAZ aniblock system will seamlessly, smoothly blend them together

In poser you can NOT  Mix multiple BVH motions from Different sources because the figure May jump 500 feet to the left or right etc when you import the second, or third BVH

watch the VIDEO

I linked to earlier for a better demonstration.

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

Quote - for me it's a simple thing, which I see no one else has really touched on.

 

this new tech, right now is only in 1 application. it's good tech and needed. but.. never be an early adopter if a lot of money's involved.

a lesson learnt by anyone thats paid for HD DVD, Betamax, Minidisk...etc and ended up with useless toys after awhile.

^

This.

I'm in a strangely fortunate position here.  I'm skint so I have no choice but to wait and see what happens.  Maybe in a few years time I'll be able to rejoin the fray.  Until then I'm stuck with P6.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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Quote -
"What do aniblocks do if the end pose of 1 and the start pose of the next are not identical ?"

Unlike poser the DAZ aniblock system will seamlessly, smoothly blend them together

In poser you can NOT Mix multiple BVH motions from Different sources because the figure May jump 500 feet to the left or right etc when you import the second, or third BVH

watch the VIDEO

I linked to earlier for a better demonstration.

Cheers

As long as there is no really working IK-solution in both applications, you cant really animate with them anyway. I give a shit about motion mixing if i cant even animate a 380° turn without getting a gimbal lock and flipping ik-chains.

I will wait for Poser9 however.

Meli

"Der anzige der do wos hacklt is da Ventilator..."

 

Quote - What bothered me also was that you couldn't import 3ds or OBJ files directly into it. That you needed a work around.

You can do that, as well. I know you can do it in DS 2 and 3 and I am assuming you can do it in DS4.

***"As long as there is no really working IK-solution in both applications, you can`t really animate with them anyway. I give a shit about motion mixing if i can`t even animate a 380° turn without getting a gimbal lock and flipping ik-chains.***

I will wait for Poser9 however."

Well  you have the option of paying the $3000+ for  a Professional Animation program that has  an Excellent IK solution& motion clips like we have in C4D.
or perhaps you should consider Blender
But I  you would'nt expect any real improvement  in posers aged animation tool set
in poser 9 as SM has shown that animation is NOT among their priorities.

Cheers

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YouTube Channel

Quote - "As long as there is no really working IK-solution in both applications, you cant really animate with them anyway. I give a shit about motion mixing if i cant even animate a 380° turn without getting a gimbal lock and flipping ik-chains.

I will wait for Poser9 however."

Well you have the option of paying the $3000+ for a Professional Animation program that has an Excellent IK solution& motion clips like we have in C4D.
or perhaps you should consider Blender
But I you would'nt expect any real improvement in posers aged animation tool set
in poser 9 as SM has shown that animation is NOT among their priorities.

Cheers

sigh no offence, but i`m tired of this argument.

Servas!

 

 

Meli

"Der anzige der do wos hacklt is da Ventilator..."

 

"but i`m tired of this argument.

Servas!"

Tired of what argument???

if you mean the pointless  DAZ Studio vs Poser debate  in general....I with you there
If you refer to the undeniable fact that there are no true pro level Character animation tools in either DS or Poser  ,and NEVER Will be at their Current  price point...I am  with you there.

I see you only have posted here Five times
I hope we have not chased you away so soon.

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

Quote - I've tried the beta. I don't think the interface is easier to use than Poser's

 

I tried Daz Studio a couple years ago and I couldn't figure out the interface at all! It was way too complicated and "busy." I couldn't even figure out how to open anything.  So after about 30 minutes I closed the program, and uninstalled it.

I'll stick to Poser. Yes, I have to pay for it, but it seems to me that the whole process is more streamlined and the interface itself is very easy to get started with. 

 

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

I'd rather pay for something where everything works upon install over something where you have to add plugins that may or may not work with each new beat up beta that comes out.

Quote - "but i`m tired of this argument.

Servas!"

Tired of what argument???

if you mean the pointless DAZ Studio vs Poser debate in general....I with you there
If you refer to the undeniable fact that there are no true pro level Character animation tools in either DS or Poser ,and NEVER Will be at their Current price point...I am with you there.

I see you only have posted here Five times
I hope we have not chased you away so soon.

Cheers

Only 5 times? Well i guess i had nothing important to say then. But i`m Poser user since hmm...Poser 4 i guess. I was also 3dsmax user since R1 over a decade ago. I abandoned this realm however. It was a bit too expensive for a hobby.

And i used Cinema-4d for a while. It was an early release. I can`t remember which version exactly, but it was very limited. Only basic modeling and animation features. Now look how powerful it is today (and expensive too...)

But i really like Poser for some reason. I just wish it had a working IK so i could animate my heroine making a fast turn with her sword. ;)

Is that really to much to ask?

Smith Micro, pretty please???? (No?...hmm,ok then)

And software wars...well they where always there. They will not go away i fear.

Bye

 

Meli

"Der anzige der do wos hacklt is da Ventilator..."

 

If you want real frustration?? try using poser "IK" for the first half of your animation
and then "Deactivate" it for the second half and watch how it magically re-easserts
its Feet "pinning" and ruins your key framed  leg motion later on...ARRRRRGHHHH!!!

as far as SM  goes, the hints from one of their insiders is that they will be focusing on better rigging for smoother joint bending.
you know so people dont have to post work their nekkid  renders as much on the Bendy parts.

Cheers

 

My website

YouTube Channel

I think the pain for the Genesis figure will be in the support outside DAZ. Supporting items, like clothing etc, should match the flexibility of the Genesis figure to be competing with DAZ originals. Knowledge of content making is centered around using CR2's, adding morphs, and the like. For Genesis there is no .cr2, so where in *** to begin?

Then on packaging the product: Unless I did overlook something, there is no tool for making the product and file dependency of the Genesis system to make it show up in the 'my stuff' section.  

Conclude there is a treshold, and DAZ market strategy is shedding off the Poser market and starting to build a client base of newcomers that solemnly buy only DAZ products. There is a fork here. I stay on the Poser track.

I have to say that, overall DS 4 is better than Poser 4... :biggrin:

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Quote - I have to say that, overall DS 4 is better than Poser 4... :biggrin:

LOL

loving my Poser Pro 2010 :)

 OK

 

 " D4 is better than Poser4!" It really IS!

I've spent some hours playing with D4. I think it blows Maya and 3D studio right out of the water! JUST kidding.

 Positives: 1) Genesis: See attached comparison.Daz sells a program that will let you use V4 clothing on Female Genesis, and M4...

  The bending really is far superior with Genesis

                2)The relational data base is nice. Select the Hair- and only textures and morphs FOR that Hair show up.

                 3) AniBlocks is an interesting concept- don't know if you can get under the hood and modify them though.

 In Poser I have movement poses, and materials poses all in the same folders- mostly identfied by the creators name rather than by WHAT they are.I can rename and rearrange them-but it is tedious- and I frequently FORGET what I have installed- Hmmmn what is that under "Sarsa?"

  Negatives: Rendering Engine- blech!"Reality" Plug in- looks great- but seems to take a very long time.

                  Lighting: blech!

                 TOO simplified- I likes to "tinker under the hood"

Simple Summary: staying with PoserPro2010- better lighting and texturing (IMHO)

and plays well with Vue, and Lightwave, and CD4, etc.

you said in poser we have material and poses in the same folder.

 

i always wondered why is this? so that you can load materials outside the material room? how can we save this?

Has anyone else noticed the decided lack of shoulder blades on Genesis?

Quote - you said in poser we have material and poses in the same folder.

 

i always wondered why is this? so that you can load materials outside the material room? how can we save this?

 

Because prior to Poser 5, there was no predesignated location for textures to go, so they ended up in the Pose folder (no, I don't know why, I came late to the Poser party).

________________________________________________________________

If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.

Quote - Because prior to Poser 5, there was no predesignated location for textures to go, so they ended up in the Pose folder (no, I don't know why, I came late to the Poser party).

Actually, Poser 4 (at least) had a "Textures" folder.  Back then, everyone used to make freebies designed to just have the texture map (usually just one map per item, and fairly small) plunked down directly into that textures folder.  I still have a P4 Runtime somewhere with a heckka messy textures directory.  :lol:

Poser 5 did introduce the Materials Room and the Poser shader system, however.

 

I'm not sure I understand ice-boy's initial question, however, so I can't try to answer that.  :unsure:  What is meant by "materials"?  MAT poses?  Poser shader material files (.mt5)?  Texture maps?

===========================sigline======================================================

Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking.  He apologizes for this.  He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.

Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below.  His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.

 

 

 

Quote - i always wondered why is this? so that you can load materials outside the material room? how can we save this?

 

Well, easy enough. Early versions of Poser did not have material room or material entry in the library. Pose files are the type of item that

• show up in the library and
• unlike character, hisr and prop files do not add geometry and
• unlike hand and hair files do not have specific particulars or dedicated objects to work on
• can change about any setting of an object in a scene.

It is a legacy thing, a bug if you want, that users found out about and started to exploit. Same happened with conforming clothing. This was a program bug called 'cross talk'. If you had two figures in a scene and posed the first figure, the second figure took the same pose. Someone had the clever idea to exploit this to make a cloth shaped figure follow a figure shaped figure. See in the legacy content that comes with Poser that there is no conforming clothing for the Poser 1 to 3 figures.  Poser has more of those bugs that turned out to be useful in some way. No need to emphasize that this hindered development. Once the 'conforming' exploit had taken wings, the developers could not fix the cross talk bug anymore.

Now users know no better and object to Poser 7? providing clothing in the props section.

Quote -  In Poser I have movement poses, and materials poses all in the same folders- mostly identfied by the creators name rather than by WHAT they are.I can rename and rearrange them-but it is tedious- and I frequently FORGET what I have installed- Hmmmn what is that under "Sarsa?"

This is not Poser, but the content creator's responsibility.
As mentioned by others, Poser introduced materials (mt5) in Poser 5 and material collections (mc6) in Poser 6.
So there is no need for poses (.pz2) to apply materials in Poser. (which was a hack for earlier versions)
Actually, there is one reason, why content creators stick to .pz2 files to apply materials... DAZ Studio! (and maybe users of Poser 5 and older)
Studio cannot read mc6, even though it's just one line of code that's different from a .pz2 MAT Pose.

Quote -    2)The relational data base is nice. Select the Hair- and only textures and morphs FOR that Hair show up.

This may change, as soon as others than DAZ begin creating content for DS 4.
If they do not stick to some set of rules set by DAZ, the system may no longer work.

And sticking to rules seems to be a problem for both companies.
Just have a closer look at your Poser runtimes or Studio content folders.
The Poser FAQ tells you, that geometries (.obj) go into a subfolder within Runtime->Geometries..
where do you find them? Even for Poser 8 content? In Libraries->character next to the cr2.

After a Studio 3 install you'll find content for V4 within studios content folder, other files are buried in a runtime structure within content.
For some items you'll find the geometry in .obj format within a runtime->geometries folder under content, for others in .dso format under content->data.

And that's all coming from the companies distributing the program and included content.

Maybe I am missing some reason for this, maybe not :)

Yesterday's the past, tomorrow's the future, but today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.

now that i think about it it is better. why go in the material room when you can add full materials while posing?

quote:- "I'd rather pay for something where everything works upon install over something where you have to add plugins that may or may not work with each new beat up beta that comes out."

 

Well I actually couldn't use poser without my plugins (python scripts).

I toon with the tooning software, I use advanced figure manager to quickly parent a whole pile of things to something eg an invisible ball so I can move a group of stuff around on mass, I change materials as a group with advanced material manager.  I make my clothes fit properly on morphed figures with morphing cloth (I'm on a mac but I got it working for me).

I delete a whole lot of stuff from a scene in one hit, i turn lights on and off, or shadows on and off for them in one hit etc.

I make the clothes fit my scaled poser person eg Freak 4 all in one hit using a python script by dizzi.

I unhide dials in the head using a D3D script called unhide dials so i can make eg the head bigger or hair fit properly. 

In fact without all my python scripts poser would almost be crippleware to me.

 

Love esther

PS well some of these scripts were free, but the best ones for me are at runtimedna that are both mac and PC compatible

 

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

Quote - now that i think about it it is better. why go in the material room when you can add full materials while posing?

In Poser 8 and up you can use materials from the pose room.

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wooow. it works. i was reading somewhere that its not working how it should but i never tryed it. thanks BB.

Quote - Actually, Poser 4 (at least) had a "Textures" folder.  Back then, everyone used to make freebies designed to just have the texture map (usually just one map per item, and fairly small) plunked down directly into that textures folder.  I still have a P4 Runtime somewhere with a heckka messy textures directory.

I was talking about a dedicated folder tab, in Poser's library, for textures, not a folder for textures. ;P

________________________________________________________________

If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.

Quote - I was talking about a dedicated folder tab, in Poser's library, for textures, not a folder for textures. ;P

Eh?  You lost me. 

===========================sigline======================================================

Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking.  He apologizes for this.  He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.

Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below.  His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.

Quote - > Quote - I was talking about a dedicated folder tab, in Poser's library, for textures, not a folder for textures. ;P

Eh?  You lost me. 

Ya lost me too

Laurie

He means materials or mat poses. Some way to access the textures rather than loading them manually.

can DS 4 do the HDRI background image mapped onto a dome like poser can?

Love eshter

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

if it can not do this in 2011 then this is pathetic.

Well, let's not assume right off the bat that it doesn't. I don't know for sure, but I would certainly think it could.

Laurie

I was using a free version of DS with a free script to get IBL capability and full GI (including ILT) almost 2 years before Poser got IDL.

And when they eventually added ILT to poser they got the spelling wrong :tt2:

regards
prixat

so is it now easy to set up in DS 4 and automated?

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

Quote - so is it now easy to set up in DS 4 and automated?

Nope. It is a separate thing that comes with the installation. It is not a native feature.

Quote - > Quote - Actually, Poser 4 (at least) had a "Textures" folder.  Back then, everyone used to make freebies designed to just have the texture map (usually just one map per item, and fairly small) plunked down directly into that textures folder.  I still have a P4 Runtime somewhere with a heckka messy textures directory.

I was talking about a dedicated folder tab, in Poser's library, for textures, not a folder for textures. ;P

You mean, besides the material room/tab?

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

He said prior to poser 5 there was no materials category in the library. The GUI. It answers the question "Why did we ever have materials in the pose category". 

The answer to why we still do is vendors who want to make mat presets that work as-is for both Poser and DS, saving them time.

The answer to why some Poser users still prefer mat-poses is because they do not have Poser 8 or better and they like applying materials without having to go into the material room. Since P8+, that problem has been solved. There is no longer any logical reason to use mat-poses except for the fact that vendors prefer to do less work for products that are for DS and Poser, and because some users are never going to upgrade.

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How does DAZ Studio 4 compare to Poser?
Well it was DS4 that made me a Poser user haha.

Poser scripts by Snarlygribbly

Quote - How does DAZ Studio 4 compare to Poser?
Well it was DS4 that made me a Poser user haha.

DS 4 is nice so far but....

• I hate the Information disaster from DAZ. One Day the Plugin is in the Advanced, the next no ...

• The biggest error is in my view that DS4 is not complete at release. (Ok, not the Plugins but they should release the normal and the Advanced at the same time.) And Genesis (V5,A5.. Morphs) are not aviable at release ? Genesis is without morphs not realy much to work with.

Ok, now i have Poser 8 and can wait a lot longer :)

I hope that you understand what i wrote ;)
My English is not the best (writing)

I think that the present free DS4 and figure is a very general wide distribution beta release, even if that is not what it is called. Responses may help in the last details of developement. By many of the responses, I can conclude that the products are not finished.

I think this was released to preempt any anouncement of releases by SM/Poser.  As such it is a place-keeper to keep people interested until DS and Genesis are more developed.

I have no problem with DAZ3D releasing DS4 and Genesis before they are fully developed and functional. I hope this leads to stable and useful products that will satisfy their customers. I am not interested in DS and DS dependent products any more than I am interested in Carrara and its dependent products. It does not bother me that DAZ continues to develop these lines of products especially if the products satisfy the needs of some users.

If the developement of Poser should one day end, there is a very useful product positioned to take its place, in which interest is already growing. It is called Blender, and it is free. Sadly for DAZ , the future demise of Poser, should it ever happen, would not bring many Pose customers to them as we have already decided against their non-Poser compatable products.

lmk

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

I've never used Daz Studio, but I have to admit that their latest video looks nice.

http://www.youtube.com/user/WWWDAZ3DCOM

Looking at the amazing morphing Genesis promos, I, of course, couldn't help but think of this: http://carodan.blackraven3d.com/freestuff/ColeADS2.wmv

@Daz3d
@ShareCG

Quote - I've never used Daz Studio, but I have to admit that their latest video looks nice.

http://www.youtube.com/user/WWWDAZ3DCOM

i like how they fixed the streched UV's. by having so different shapes on teh figures the original UV's wouldnt work. but i can see that you can change the UV's for different shapes. this is great. i also see that bending is better.
and it also looks like that clothing from old figures will also work here.

 

lets hope this will work in poser.

Quote - > Quote - If you need DS4 to use it, then ultimately people will migrate to DS4, if not then things will stay more or less as they are. John

One of the few things I disagree with you on John..lolol. I don't think people will switch to DS en masse just to use Genesis. I really don't. I know I won't ;). I like my Poser. I plan to stay with it, no matter if there is a Vicky 5 I can use in it or not...lol. I don't think I'm alone ;).

Laurie

You are by far, NOT alone :)

I also feel this is a strategic mistake but it no longer affects me.  The Poser community is resilient too.

I think the genesis idea takes away from a lot of potential products as I truly feel that folks (speaking generally) will be more inclined to just get by with "Fit To" plugin (or whatever the name) conversions of V4 clothing.  Besides skins, I just don't see that much of a market and if genesis is able to adopt those as well... what is left?

I have tried very hard to not be on one side or the other but there's really nothing for me in DS 4 or in the genesis line.  I have always leaned greatly towards Poser but tried when it's possible to support Studio.  Now there's going to be serious pressure to be on one side of the other.  deep sigh

I suppose that I always knew that it was inevitable.  No matter what, it's going to be an interesting year, for sure.

.

Quote - so is it now easy to set up in DS 4 and automated?

I've just 'discovered' the GI plugin in DS4. There wasn't any in the free version of DS3.

I use a different plugin in DS3 and have only played with Uberenvironment2 for a few minutes but found it very easy to use. Loading, features and quality can all be done with single click scripts.

You can still drill down into the parameters if you really want to.

There's even a script to convert your HDR file to a compatible TIF format!

regards
prixat

Quote - I suppose that I always knew that it was inevitable.  No matter what, it's going to be an interesting year, for sure.

Yep, it is ;).

I have to admit that, when I really sit and think about it, I almost hope that V5 won't work in Poser. What's that you say? Well, yes it would be easier if V5 works and things continue as they are. But it would also open the doors for other modelers, other figures. I can't see that as a bad thing. There are most certainly enough ultra talented people in this community to get the job done ;).

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - I suppose that I always knew that it was inevitable.  No matter what, it's going to be an interesting year, for sure.

Yep, it is ;).

I have to admit that, when I really sit and think about it, I almost hope that V5 won't work in Poser. What's that you say? Well, yes it would be easier if V5 works and things continue as they are. But it would also open the doors for other modelers, other figures. I can't see that as a bad thing. There are most certainly enough ultra talented people in this community to get the job done ;).

Laurie

Don't feel too bad. I kind of feel the same way. In fact, what would really please me is if Poser came out with a figure that would rival at least V4 in quality. It would be interesting to see how the community would react.

Quote - Don't feel too bad. I kind of feel the same way. In fact, what would really please me is if Poser came out with a figure that would rival at least V4 in quality. It would be interesting to see how the community would react.

The community would react the usual way... Like many are reacting to DS4 now, V4 before that, or to Miki 3 recently.

Poser 8 already offers better rigging options (capsule falloff zones), but is there anyone using them?
I assume better rigging may mean loss of backwards compatibility, so many won't go for it.
Unless there is some easy way to transfer new, better rigging to old figures/clothes.
And, the better rigging has to be available for all past Poser versions, otherwise all Poser 4 users will threaten to dump Poser in favor of... lol  

Yesterday's the past, tomorrow's the future, but today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.

is there any capsule falloff zones tutorial ?

Poser 4 users? Who cares about them? lolol. I mean, really - let's get with the 21st century ;).

I'm kidding of course, but I stopped making anything I do Poser 4 compatible years ago...lol. The farthest back I go is Poser 6.

Laurie

when a poser 4 user wants new figures in 2011 to not use new technology i want to  slap them. where does this end?

Quote - is there any capsule falloff zones tutorial ?

I haven't seen any... only what's in the Poser 8 manual.

Yesterday's the past, tomorrow's the future, but today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.

Quote - is there any capsule falloff zones tutorial ?

Any Joint Editor tutorial should do. The Capsule Falloff Zones are just as easy to manipulate as the original Inner & Outter Mat Falloff Zones.

Quote - Unless there is some easy way to transfer new, better rigging to old figures/clothes.And, the better rigging has to be available for all past Poser versions, otherwise all Poser 4 users will threaten to dump Poser in favor of... lol

I realize that this is very tongue-in-check but it's just not technologically feasable.  It it were possible to transfer the new rigging to old versions of Poser, someone would have done it.  It would require program updates all the way back Poser 6 or 4 or whatever.

Except for creative product designs, you can't have new features in old versions of Poser.  By the same right DAZ is not going to retro-fit DAZ Studio 2 or 3 to use new features or Genesis technology.  Is it possible? Sure!  Is it probable? No.

.

every figure can use new rigging. you just have to start from beginning. the body mesh can stay the same.

The Great wide divide  :rolleyes:

 

this is how Ryan does in DS4, iffn anyone is interested.

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and this is what Toddler does in P8.  that single axis scaling thingee

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There are 5 versions of P8. Which one are you using?

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:rolleyes:  me?

i bought this one: 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002KMQ8WU

and installed the service pack from smith micro.

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"the" service pack depends on when you got "the" service pack.

Did you install SR1, SR2, SR3, or SR3.1?

I'm asking because I thought I had read that single axis scaling was no longer a problem.

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and this is Olivia in DS4 with the uber environment light

 

 

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I may have misunderstood the status of the scaling problem.

http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=153329&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=5033bbd6a09e2a9331f58b2de8447f3a&flatnum=1

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i d/l the service pack the week of May 20th. 

there's one good thing about posting everything that happens in my life, i can date/line stuff.

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Attached Link: http://support.smithmicro.com/

It's our understanding from beta reports that the scaling issue has been resolved with the latest Service Releases applied to both Poser 8 and Pro 2010. If there are still isues, after those SR's have been applied, please let our tech support team know.

 

 

Olivia looks good in that light environment

You might as well PAY attention, because you can't afford FREE speech

Quote - It's our understanding from beta reports that the scaling issue has been resolved with the latest Service Releases applied to both Poser 8 and Pro 2010. If there are still isues, after those SR's have been applied, please let our tech support team know.

 

The only "scaling issue" that was solved was the fact that conforming clothing can now also be conformed to scaled figures without defaulting to 100% of it's size everytime.(As long as it is first resaved to the Poser library with the appropriate settings)

The different handling in single-axis scaling between Poser and Studio (And so, among others, Kids-4 greatly reduced usefullness in Poser) were, AFAIK, never seen as something possible to fix without completely changing Poser's rigging system.

And therefore there was never any attempt to fix it.

People in the fora regularly confused both problems though and started to argue even though I posted detailed screenshots, and after a while I simply got tired trying to explain the differences.

 

And just for the record, Kids-4's scaling problems are entirely DAZ' fault.

Single axis scaling works without problen in Poser as long as the figure is properly rigged.

Unfortunately the (pre-Genesis) DAZ style rigging is more "forgiving" than the Poser rigging, so you can get by cutting quite a few corners and DAZ seemed to think the necessary extra work to achieve full Poser functionality to be not worth the effort.

Well, all this is moot anyway, now.

Exactly Joe - I conflated the two issues and had a shelf in my mind marked "solved" - was the wrong shelf.

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Figure incompatibility certainly isn't a new thing between the two. It was thanks to being a DAZ Studio user I took so long to adopt AnimeDoll. I didn't want to get her until I had a male counterpart to go with her, but AD Boy wasn't compatible with DAZ Studio 2. So I had to wait until DS3.

Poser scripts by Snarlygribbly

Quote - People in the fora regularly confused both problems though and started to argue even though I posted detailed screenshots, and after a while I simply got tired trying to explain the differences.

That's why we would like you to report it to SM Tech Support instead. Web forums are not a good tool for bug reports.

there's a few features i like in DS4. 

it lets you set a smoothing angle on a material zone.
Poser has the assign smoothing id, but never was able to figure out how to set the angle.

it has a drop down box to change .uvs set.  from what i read in the Daz forums, this isn't the same as being able to load a remap of a figure.

i dream of being able to save a hair growth group as an injection file.

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Smoothing in Poser is an object setting, so the angle is an object property.

according to the P7 reference manual, assigning a smoothing ID should make a hard edge along the smoothing area.  but i don't see a hard edge

i prefer not to use the global smooth polygons on the render options

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> Quote - according to the P7 reference manual, assigning a smoothing ID should make a hard edge along the smoothing area.  but i don't see a hard edge

The smoothing ids are the just the smoothing groups that can also be found in obj-files. They actually  do not smooth polygons at all, but they do interpolate the normals, ie smooth the normals, hence the name. If you cannot see them it is likely because you have a model that has the smoothing already built into the geometry. But you can see it when using e.g. a simple model like a sphere (see illustration). The "seam" between the left and right halves of the sphere (render: small on the lower right) is the rim of the smoothing group i have assigned to the right half (with the group-tool, big illustration).

Quote - i prefer not to use the global smooth polygons on the render options

You are right about that. The render options' smoothing does something completely different. This one is more like a kind of smoothing displacement map, that actually modifies geometry during rendering.

ooh.  thanks   i was trying to use it to make like a spandex wrinkle for 2nd skin.

 

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Quote - > Quote - People in the fora regularly confused both problems though and started to argue even though I posted detailed screenshots, and after a while I simply got tired trying to explain the differences.

That's why we would like you to report it to SM Tech Support instead. Web forums are not a good tool for bug reports.

 

Oh but that would make too much sense and not garner enough attention to oneself.

i like reading the buggy bits posts, so if i encounter the same thing i don't feel so insane.

another comparison,

in DS4 new genesis, you can't make body parts invisible.  or on the clothes for genesis.  Daz posted they are working on a solution to change this.

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Quote - i like reading the buggy bits posts, so if i encounter the same thing i don't feel so insane.

another comparison,

in DS4 new genesis, you can't make body parts invisible.  or on the clothes for genesis.  Daz posted they are working on a solution to change this.

Interestingly enough, I just asked a question over in the DAZ forum about that very subject.

I wonder if they'll find a solution for that as quickly as they did for that Shoulder problem ov V4's? Oh... wait!

DS4 has the subdivision feature.

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