DarkElegance opened this issue on Aug 11, 2011 · 84 posts
DarkElegance posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 4:53 PM
OK I just got my email daz letter..and saw the amazing beautiful epic wings.
it says they are for daz studio...does that mean they cant be used in poser at all???????
https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/
LaurieA posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 5:11 PM
Maybe you should ask Daz ;).
Laurie
RobynsVeil posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 5:14 PM
Quote - Maybe you should ask Daz ;).
Laurie
And then, report back here... :biggrin: please...
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
Acadia posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 5:21 PM
https://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=13038
If you look under the "what's included and features" tab you can usualy find out whether it will work inside Poser or not.
In this case, the wings appear to be only for Daz|Studio users. The files are .DSF files. If it will work outside of Daz, they usually list .OBJ or .CR2.
A shame though. Those are great wings. However, as a Poser user I guess they lost my sale.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
RobynsVeil posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 5:27 PM
Quote - https://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=13038If you look under the "what's included and features" tab you can usualy find out whether it will work inside Poser or not.
In this case, the wings appear to be only for Daz|Studio users. The files are .DSF files. If it will work outside of Daz, they usually list .OBJ or .CR2.
A shame though. Those are great wings. However, as a Poser user I guess they lost my sale.
Looks like this might be a pattern for things to come? Oh well... I've been told in no uncertain terms I need to cut back my spending on 3D stuff, so this actually helps me in my endeavour. Which is a good thing. 
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
LaurieA posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 5:40 PM
Yep, now Poser users are pariahs at Daz ;).
Laurie
RobynsVeil posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 5:45 PM
<<
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
Acadia posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 5:46 PM
Quote - Yep, now Poser users are pariahs at Daz ;).
Laurie
Well I sure won't be renewing my PC membership next month seeing that they are changing from a "3D" site to one that supports their own program only. Since I don't use Daz|Studio, it would seem that I will have less and less to choose from there, so I will save my money and spend it in places that do support the program I am using.
I've heard that Daz3D is in serious financial trouble. One would think that they would be doing whatever they could to increase sales, including reaching out to Poser users who make up a serious chunk of 3D program users. Becoming exclusive to one program is cutting off more then their foot. It's amputating 1/2 of their body.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
RobynsVeil posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 5:53 PM
Quote - > Quote - Yep, now Poser users are pariahs at Daz ;).
Laurie
Well I sure won't be renewing my PC membership next month seeing that they are changing from a "3D" site to one that supports their own program only. Since I don't use Daz|Studio, it would seem that I will have less and less to choose from there, so I will save my money and spend it in places that do support the program I am using.
There's still the scenery, though. Well, some scenery, anyway.It's all so dear, anymore!
I guess my issue has been recently, what has been offered in PC has become more and more DS-focused and less generally usable. I'm going to keep an eye on things, but tbh, I'm considering cancelling my PC membership as well... their offerings are just not as compelling as they used to be. I'm not into monsters and goblins nor Optitex stuff, and the other stuff is pretty-much a reversioning (is that a word?) of stuff I already have. Starting to make my own dynamic cloth in Blender (as well as other stuff - got this HUGE project going for work involving basically re-creating the entire recovery room in Blender for Poser) and so little of what Daz is offering is going to fit into that.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
DarkElegance posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 5:58 PM
Quote - https://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=13038
If you look under the "what's included and features" tab you can usualy find out whether it will work inside Poser or not.
In this case, the wings appear to be only for Daz|Studio users. The files are .DSF files. If it will work outside of Daz, they usually list .OBJ or .CR2.
A shame though. Those are great wings. However, as a Poser user I guess they lost my sale.
yea I saw that ds icon checked to show its compatability.
which made me go NOOOOOooOOooOo
seriously they are beautiful wings.
allot of poser sales are going to get lost with this new trend.
https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/
RobynsVeil posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 6:00 PM
Quote - > Quote - Yep, now Poser users are pariahs at Daz ;).
Laurie
Well I sure won't be renewing my PC membership next month seeing that they are changing from a "3D" site to one that supports their own program only. Since I don't use Daz|Studio, it would seem that I will have less and less to choose from there, so I will save my money and spend it in places that do support the program I am using.
I've heard that Daz3D is in serious financial trouble. One would think that they would be doing whatever they could to increase sales, including reaching out to Poser users who make up a serious chunk of 3D program users. Becoming exclusive to one program is cutting off more then their foot. It's amputating 1/2 of their body.
No time like the present: I did it just now. Saving $7.95 which i can now use here. Or save up for real clothing for me... Vicki's got enough! :biggrin:
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
Acadia posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 6:37 PM
I bought a 1 year subscription, so it comes up for renewal next month.
Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Yep, now Poser users are pariahs at Daz ;).
Laurie
Well I sure won't be renewing my PC membership next month seeing that they are changing from a "3D" site to one that supports their own program only. Since I don't use Daz|Studio, it would seem that I will have less and less to choose from there, so I will save my money and spend it in places that do support the program I am using.
I've heard that Daz3D is in serious financial trouble. One would think that they would be doing whatever they could to increase sales, including reaching out to Poser users who make up a serious chunk of 3D program users. Becoming exclusive to one program is cutting off more then their foot. It's amputating 1/2 of their body.
No time like the present: I did it just now. Saving $7.95 which i can now use here. Or save up for real clothing for me... Vicki's got enough! :biggrin:
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
RobynsVeil posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 6:42 PM
Yeah, mine was monthly, so I could stop it anytime. Well, seems that time has come!
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
geep posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 6:53 PM
Are you li$tenin' DAZ ? :blink:
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
JoePublic posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 7:15 PM
Top: Poser 6 "WinterQueen"
Middle: Griffin Wings
Bottom: Feathered Wings.
While the WinterQueen wings are quite pretty, they aren't very moveable.
The Feathered Wings are nicely rigged, but the "meaty arm part" always creates a "plucked chicken" look for me.
Seems to be a problem with those new wings, too.
My favorites by far are the old Griffin wings. The "arms" blend nicely with the wings, the overall shape is very elegant, and they are fully rigged so they can go from soaring to perched without problem.
I deleted the "Griffin" figure and reshaped the shoulder parts a bit so that I can easily parent them to any (human) figure I like.
(And of course they work 100% in Poser)
New isn't always better. 8)
JoePublic posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 7:17 PM
JoePublic posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 7:18 PM
grichter posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 7:25 PM
Quote - Are you li$tenin' DAZ ? :blink:
No of course not....Doc you need to start another thread and list all the new stuff in P9/PP2012 and start to take feedback of what your loyal students need new tuts on.
Of course number one will how to fake out the daz installers to let you unpack a .dsf file when it is looking for other bits first and then hack said .dsf file to work in Poser followed by adding weight maps to the mil 3 characters.
Gary
"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"
RobynsVeil posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 7:32 PM
Quote - Are you li$tenin' DAZ ? :blink:
I think they'll listen to their accountants more when they're sucking on their pencils they've just sharpened and offer their opinions that going for the exclusive approach was probably not a very good idea.
Really, about the only things that Poser "makes" that doesn't work in Daz directly are the mat room shaders. pPretty much everything else you can get to work in that programme. I.e, Poser's got a more flexible work environment. I.e, I'm going to invest in PP2012 upgrade instead of my DS4 Adv upgrade. Not that my purchasing decisions matter much... :lol:
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
geep posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 10:46 PM
Quote - ... Not that my purchasing decisions matter much... :lol:
Do NOT discount yourself ... after all, a flood is just a few trillion drops of water that are in the same location at the same time, n'est pas?! 
Do NOT discount your drop of water. But ...
"That's just my opinion ... I could be wrong."
Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"
cheers,
dr geep ... :o]
edited 10/5/2019
icprncss2 posted Thu, 11 August 2011 at 11:45 PM
DAZ will be faced with an even bigger problem when Poser 9 and Pro 2012 are released. The new weight mapping for Poser will cross platforms with other higher end apps. DS tri-axial mapping is supposed to work in the new versions of Poser but won't work in higher end apps.
DAZ thought it was out doing SMS with Genesis but it may backfire on them. They also have the price lists out for Advanced and Pro. At the prices I'm seeing, there's no way I'd consider one, Genesis or no Genesis.
Netherworks posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 12:13 AM
Yeah, it's a shame - they look great.
I'm not so sure about the DAZ Periodic Table of Elements approach to what the product works in... it's kind of weird.
"Science!"
"Good heavens Miss Sakamoto - you're beautiful!"
:)
.
basicwiz posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 12:45 AM
Canceling my Platinum club membership...
WHAT A WONDERFUL IDEA!
(I just did it.)
cspear posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 2:21 AM
I thought it ws just me... I cancelled my PC membership last month. I've had a few unhappy experiences with things I bought from them recently after years of problem-free patronage.
DAZ, you need to get your act together.
Windows 10 x64 Pro - Intel Xeon E5450 @ 3.00GHz (x2)
PoserPro 11 - Units: Metres
Adobe CC 2017
stepson posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 2:37 AM
I cancelled mine too. Just tired of the hype and no Poser support.
Life is hard, but what a ride.
SamTherapy posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 3:46 AM
Maybe you will remember I said this would happen? I made exactly the point that DAZ would start selling stuff only in their proprietary format and got laughed at. That was around 4 or 5 years ago, IIRC.
Who is laughing now?
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
icprncss2 posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 3:55 AM
Quote - Maybe you will remember I said this would happen? I made exactly the point that DAZ would start selling stuff only in their proprietary format and got laughed at. That was around 4 or 5 years ago, IIRC.
Who is laughing now?
I never doubted you. I was hoping DAZ would come to it's senses but I seems they're hellbent on running themselves into the ground. My annual ends just after the PC anniversay sale ends. I'll just let it run out. Maybe there will be some good deals on useable merchandise during it.
I don't get vendors. This whold DS4/Genesis thing has the makings a huge disaster but most of them are so blind they can't see it.
SamTherapy posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 5:34 AM
I wasn't singling you out, btw. Some people, however, accused me of scare mongering when it was bloody obvious they'd eventually use a proprietary format and release content only in that.
As for them running themselves into the ground, DAZ have been diversifying so I don't think it will worry them too much if the Genesis D|S thing doesn't pan out the way they hoped. If they don't end up being the dominant app in this tiny market they still have tons of content they can sell to Poser users, plus the games developer stuff and probably a whole lot more.
I know this scenario has been compared to the VHS/Beta format war but there's a world of difference in that home video was a mass market, whereas what we are part of is really a teeny tiny little thing. I sometimes wonder if the market is big enough to support two competing formats.
Fortunately, both companies seem to be keen on developing new versions and new tools, which can only be good. Certainly, the new versions of Poser sound promising.
It will be interesting to see how things look in 5 years time.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
SamTherapy posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 5:35 AM
Here's a thought...
Is it against DAZ's EULA to create a format convertor so the D|S only stuff can be made to work in Poser?
If not, there's an opening for a smart coder. :)
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
RobynsVeil posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 6:02 AM
Quote - ...If they don't end up being the dominant app in this tiny market they still have tons of content they can sell to Poser users, plus the games developer stuff and probably a whole lot more. It will be interesting to see how things look in 5 years time.
Well, if that tons of content can only be used in their app, Poser users aren't going to consider them the content site they once did. I don't, anymore. Everything in my New Products Alert emails is about Genesis this, and Genesis that. Before that, a lot of it was about Optitex this and that. All specialised stuff, none of which I'm interested in. Certainly not enough to warrant a PC membership anymore.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
SamTherapy posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 7:17 AM
Well they have a huge back catalog of stuff, even if they were to stop producing Poser compatible content this second. And don't forget, digital content does not perish and takes up next to no space compared to other stock. It's not like they have to keep 30 million copies of V4 on their machines, for example.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Khai-J-Bach posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 7:24 AM
"Well they have a huge back catalog of stuff.."
cough... Daz Vault... withdrawing content from the market...
SamTherapy posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 8:19 AM
Quote - "Well they have a huge back catalog of stuff.."
cough... Daz Vault... withdrawing content from the market...
Withdrawing is not the same as deleted and gone, never to be seen or sold again.
Prime fodder for 3D starter packs, at the very least.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Khai-J-Bach posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 8:31 AM
they're stating "never being sold again"
markschum posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 9:45 AM
Lets be a little fair, after all, Daz studio users cant use Poser dynamic cloth outfits either. Daz has had studio specific items before in the subdivision models, and their version if dynamic cloth. Once they put weightmapping in it would be obvious that those items wont work with previous versions of Studio or Poser.
Hopefully all the stores will come up with an easy to read compatibility indicator.
SamTherapy posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 12:04 PM
Quote - they're stating "never being sold again"
Given they stated DAZ base models will always be free, I'll take the above with a pinch of salt, a slice of lime and a large shot of tequila.
Do you really think a business - any business, unless they are suicidal - would sit on stock of ready made, easily available content? Not likely. Maybe for now, if they can coerce enough people to go with Genesis but definitely not in the long run.
Taking everything into account, there's still plenty of stuff which is figure independent, such as scenery, buildings, vehicles and weapons. DAZ can sell them no matter which versions of Mike and Victoria they're currently pimping.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Khai-J-Bach posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 12:07 PM
well see.. yes. I've seen other companies make decisions along the same lines (eg bad)... metacreations selling off all the graphics apps, new coke, the sinclair c5....
hornet3d posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 4:06 PM Online Now!
Quote - I thought it ws just me... I cancelled my PC membership last month. I've had a few unhappy experiences with things I bought from them recently after years of problem-free patronage.
DAZ, you need to get your act together.
Do I see a trend here. I cancelled my PC membership last week for two reasons. Firstly I was not buying anything from them anymore as I could always find better things to spend my money on here at Rendo. Then I decided that I would use the last PC voucher and purchased an item. Got a 404 error when I tried to download it and the support team took the best part of a week to fix it.
I was not that upset but this was not the service I used to get from DAZ a few years ago. Shame really as I have spent a lot at the company over the years.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
RobynsVeil posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 6:17 PM
Quote - Do I see a trend here.
Sheesh, did I start something? :blink:
For my part, I'm probably suffering from what SamTherapy accurately described as "content burnout". Coupled with: there's just not that much new dynamic cloth (more, yes, but still proportionately much less than conforming) which has sort-of got me thinking it's time to pull the finger out and make my own.
So for me, the things that are influencing this move away from bought content is the recent shift in Poser use from using conforming cloth to dynamic cloth, the focus at Daz to promote their own technologies to the exclusion of what Poser can deal with (Optitex/Genesis) and most recently, a project involving building an entire virtual recovery room from scratch in Blender with end-point being more up-to-date, clearer, actually educational illustrations for the manuals and competencies we have at work.
Fun!
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
wolf359 posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 10:19 PM
"which has sort-of got me thinking it's time to pull the finger out and make my own................................and most recently, a project involving building an entire virtual recovery room from scratch in Blender with end-point being more up-to-date, clearer, actually educational illustrations for the manuals and competencies we have at work."
Bravo For you Robyn!!!
My Modeling Skills have increased Exponentially in the past year
by both economic necessity and just being tired of being at the mercy of what other vendors
decide to make and when they decide to release it.
I feel sorry for those who have to come begging for the simplest of props for a scene they are trying to put together.
I highly recommend that everyone learn one of the free modeling apps(Wings,Blender etc).
Cheers
RobynsVeil posted Fri, 12 August 2011 at 11:05 PM
Thank you, Wolf359.
Learning to make your own stuff is time well-invested. Even if they chose Wings3D or Silo or Hex or anyway something a bit less arcane than Blender, pushing a few verts around and making basic stuff is just fun and you learn so much more about Poser itself.
I wouldn't recommend trying for the Taj Mahal straight away. Do something simple, something in a tute. Or even, load a simple obj into a modelling programme to see how it is made. muck around with it for a bit. If you turn it into a dog's breakfast: so what?
There's actually a crying need for "dog's breakfast" props... can't seem to ever find one when you need one. :biggrin:
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
tsquare posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 6:45 AM
Hi all
My pc membership will expire in mid 2012, so will be able to choose if I stay or go once they explain their new way of taking more from us and calling it a feature. I almost didn't renew it based on the way I and others were treated in the ninja preview of V5.
I did preorder poser 2012, and will not be upgading my DS3 to DS4, as I didn't like its way of storing files all over the place in any manner it felt like doing. I think I opened it up and used it about 2 weeks and then deleted it.
After trusting DAZ for so long, I found it disconcerting to have so many inaccurate and absolutely false statements come out in the last year or so, nevermind the offensive way they are making fun of longtime members of their community.
And so... I am sitting here with you folks.
Teque
NanetteTredoux posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 12:44 PM
I have never had a Platinum Club membership. I considered it a few times, but it just wasn't worth it.
I am happy that I got so many generation 2, 3 and 4 figures while they were free. With PhilC's utilities and Blender I can make anything for them I want, dynamic or conforming.
I still use Bryce from Daz, but never got into Studio. Learning Poser and Blender was difficult enough, I didn't see the point of learning another program. Studio is not even installed on my computer at the moment. I am not going to learn it or buy the advanced version just to use a figure.
There is no shortage of content. I buy from here, from Rendercandy, 9MBi, RuntimeDNA and I have a lifetime Poserworld membership. Or I make it. Blender is not arcane any more, it is awesome! I can't wait to play with the Makehuman figures in the new Poser. Antonia is adorable. There is so much to look forward to.
Poser 11 Pro, Windows 10
Auxiliary Apps: Blender 2.79, Vue Complete 2016, Genetica 4 Pro, Gliftex 11 Pro, CorelDraw Suite X6, Comic Life 2, Project Dogwaffle Howler 8, Stitch Witch
Diogenes posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 6:17 PM
Sadly I will not be upgrading to the new content creators tools either. They have no value for use in Poser. I purchased the last set up tools as soon as they came out payed almost 200 bucks for them but the new ones I cannot use.
I never have purchased much in the way of content but generally buy any tools that are inovative and usefull to me.
Hi tsquare: Welcome. I found them rude as well, so I never participate in the forums there. But it is all over the place in these times. In most forums you will find bullys and recruiters in one form or another. I have been happy here though for the most part, except in times like this (new apps and figures out) when all the worst people seem to swoop in like vultures or something. Most times though it is nice here.
cheers.
ShawnDriscoll posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 7:43 PM
Quote - I've heard that Daz3D is in serious financial trouble. One would think that they would be doing whatever they could to increase sales, including reaching out to Poser users who make up a serious chunk of 3D program users. Becoming exclusive to one program is cutting off more then their foot. It's amputating 1/2 of their body.
The problem is the economy and so less people are buying from DAZ3D or anybody. Without money, companies and their products tend to shrink.
WandW posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 9:15 PM
Quote - Canceling my Platinum club membership...
WHAT A WONDERFUL IDEA!
(I just did it.)
You should probably tell them why-they might just be blaming the cancellations on the poor economy...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
LaurieA posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 9:34 PM
Quote - > Quote - Canceling my Platinum club membership...
WHAT A WONDERFUL IDEA!
(I just did it.)
You should probably tell them why-they might just be blaming the cancellations on the poor economy...
A stellar idea! Even if I think they probably know why :P
Laurie
RobynsVeil posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 10:36 PM
Just had a look on the site, Laurie - I was going to actually take the time/make the effort and tell them there at Daz why I've cancelled my PC membership, but to be honest, it's not an easy thing to do. I mean, where do I go? site feedback? There's nothing specific to PC club. Yeah, you can stop the auto-payments but they don't seem to care if you do or don't.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
LaurieA posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 10:41 PM
Quote - Yeah, you can stop the auto-payments but they don't seem to care if you do or don't.
I think that's the defining sentence right there ;)
I'm not sure what Daz is thinking with all of this, but I have my theories. Personally, I'm just waiting for the next great modeler to create the next best thing - for Poser :P I've no doubt there will be one.
Laurie
RobynsVeil posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 10:49 PM
Well, to be honest, I'm puzzled. As someone remarked, 3D software/content really is a tiny market compared to say cosmetics or gaming or children's books, even. And here Daz appears to be deliberately marketing preferentially to DS owners/users to the exclusion of Poser users. What used to be a content site ... isn't, anymore. This appears to fall within their marketing plan ... which, to me, seems totally enigmatic. I guess Poser users didn't really factor that highly in overall sales.
Genesis is just not compelling enough of a reason to invest in buggy software and invest in learning how to use their tools, assuming they actually work, which most haven't, for me. I'll stick with PP2012 and some of what that promises: sounds like the line's been drawn in the sand. All good.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
Diogenes posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 10:54 PM
What I think I cant say. But smile its a whole new world for Poser. :)
RobynsVeil posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 10:57 PM
I suspect what you might be able to say, eventually, and smiling I am.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
Diogenes posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 11:01 PM
LaurieA posted Fri, 19 August 2011 at 11:01 PM
Ok, you just piqued my interest Mike....lolol. I'm smiling too! 
Laurie
WandW posted Sat, 20 August 2011 at 6:14 AM
Quote - Just had a look on the site, Laurie - I was going to actually take the time/make the effort and tell them there at Daz why I've cancelled my PC membership, but to be honest, it's not an easy thing to do. I mean, where do I go? site feedback? There's nothing specific to PC club. Yeah, you can stop the auto-payments but they don't seem to care if you do or don't.
You could post it in the PC forum. I'm on annual, so I'm there till next April...
BTW, I see from the Newsletter they are holding Stephanie 5 hostage...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
basicwiz posted Sat, 20 August 2011 at 9:21 AM
WandW... how is that? (I don't get the newsletter)
RobynsVeil posted Sat, 20 August 2011 at 9:35 AM
Quote - > Quote - Just had a look on the site, Laurie - I was going to actually take the time/make the effort and tell them there at Daz why I've cancelled my PC membership, but to be honest, it's not an easy thing to do. I mean, where do I go? site feedback? There's nothing specific to PC club. Yeah, you can stop the auto-payments but they don't seem to care if you do or don't.
You could post it in the PC forum. I'm on annual, so I'm there till next April...
BTW, I see from the Newsletter they are holding Stephanie 5 hostage...
Oh, I'm not considered a very positive force on their forums, particularly after my detailed explanations of why DS4 probably won't be a consideration based on my experiences with DS3Adv. No, "leper" would have a more positive spin to what they think of me as. :biggrin: I don't think I'm particularly welcome there, and, to be honest, I'd be surprised if anything I had to say about why I dropped my PC membership would have all that much credibility in that glee club.
It's okay. They are happy little consumers and I'm a cobbler. Different mindset.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
WandW posted Sat, 20 August 2011 at 9:45 AM
Quote - WandW... how is that? (I don't get the newsletter)
S4 for Genesis is currently being given away with the M4/V4 for Genesis combo; The last newsletter I got said that when the promotion is over, the Stephanie shape would become "unavailable"...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
Diogenes posted Sat, 20 August 2011 at 10:37 AM
RobynsVeil posted Sat, 20 August 2011 at 10:56 AM
Threats? Did you mean "threads"? What do you mean, Mike?
I've found posting on there a very tight-lipped experience: you don't want to say anything disparaging about Daz and their policies or the software behaviour or really anything or you get bitten to death by wild Daz fanbois.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
Diogenes posted Sat, 20 August 2011 at 12:42 PM
I mean like "Buy now cause if you dont you are never going to get Stephanie 4" typical. Ya right it will be out again as soon as they get what they can out of this ploy.
prixat posted Sat, 20 August 2011 at 5:10 PM
Its not really much of a loss to DAZ.
Everybody that wants S4 must have the old S4 by now and anyone who misses the offer for Genesis S4 will only have to wait for S5. Assuming there will be a fifth generation of each DAZ character.
regards
prixat
Diogenes posted Sat, 20 August 2011 at 5:40 PM
Or they can just pick up the weight mapped version for Poser for free when it is finished. :)
prixat posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 2:38 AM
Quote - Or they can just pick up the weight mapped version for Poser for free when it is finished. :)
Thats Cheeky :biggrin:
I'm wondering how I'd get that out of Poser and into DS.
I'm now thinking the decision not to support DSF in P9 was more of an unfriendly act than it first appeared.
regards
prixat
RobynsVeil posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 3:09 AM
Quote - > Quote - Or they can just pick up the weight mapped version for Poser for free when it is finished. :)
Thats Cheeky :biggrin:
I'm wondering how I'd get that out of Poser and into DS.
I'm now thinking the decision not to support DSF in P9 was more of an unfriendly act than it first appeared.
... as unfriendly an act for Genesis developers to make a product that requires DS4 in order to get full functionality? or for them to develop a format - DSF - that Poser didn't natively support? Let's not go there. I doubt that that's what Daz was thinking any more than what SM was thinking: they're just off in their development world and cross-compatibility is pretty much not on the "Let's-Not-Forget" list: so many more important things to make sure are working right.
I've pretty much put a big X on anything coming from DAZ based on Optitex and Genesis being all the rage, none of which works natively in Poser, and will save my pennies to buy non-organic stuff on the odd occasion it doesn't already resemble something I already have. That I can get into Poser no dramas, as long as the shaders become an issue, and even then: there's always a BB solution for just about any material anyone can come up with.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
prixat posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 4:44 AM
Doesn't the creation of the DSF format suggest that 'cross-compatibility' was exactly what they were thinking about?
You can give SM the benefit of the doubt and perhaps they are just waiting to see if there is demand for DSF support. In which case you should let SM know. Even monoliths like Adobe support other formats!
I don't know anything about the specific formats.
Was there a way, beforehand, for DAZ to know how the CR2 format would be extended to include P9 features?
Does the new CR2/PZ3 have the all the features DAZ requires?
So Poser users have lost a bit of their special status over at DAZ, your just joining the rest of us trying to get stuff out of DS. They don't support Cinema either!
regards
prixat
Diogenes posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 5:00 AM
I am not trying to get anything out of DS, I could care less. There will be plenty of upcoming figures and clothing for Poser that have nothing at all to do with DS.
And requiring any company to tie themselves to your exclusive propriatory format and other pay for apps just to use your product is just plain stupid. Unless it was planned that way knowing full well that SM could not possibly tie their company to such nonsense. Merely a means to try to grab more market share by getting users to switch.
your resonings fall flat. And we know full well why you are really here in the Poser forums.
prixat posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 5:39 AM
I've only ever used the free versions of DS. (yes, I'm cheap )
I use them to get content into Cinema. (well, not that cheap)
My reasoning is, I see lots (probably most) content creators are Poser based.
Purely for selfish reasons, I want you to get V5 into Poser and then get all that lovely new content out again to DS so I can use it.
Does anyone really want to lose access to that content (or that market) because of 'a little local difficulty'?
Should it matter to us if one, or the other, or both are tied to each others proprietary formats?
regards
prixat
Diogenes posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 5:46 AM
It all sounds suspiciously like some cable one door to door salesman. "Hi Iknow you have direct tv but we would like you to switch lookit all we got, yadda yadda yadda, Oh and by the way we have added coercion and threats to our repetroir"
NO you are wasting your time.
The ball is in the Daz court personally I hope they drop it, maybe we can finally have some peace in the Poser forums. All the constant militant recruitment crap gets old.
LaurieA posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 10:06 AM
OK folks....actually, when it comes down to it, us users (of either program) really know nothing. We're just fighting about perceived slights. No one can tell by the tone of any average Poser user, Smith Micro's intentions. And no one can tell by some of Daz's actions of late what they really have planned. Unless you want to fight over perceptions rather than facts, then continue...lol.
We will just have to wait and see what will be. THEN we can beat each other senseless...lol. I have a funny feeling that a converter at least will appear and then we can all shut up and get back to normal. ;)
Laurie
RobynsVeil posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 10:16 AM
Quote - OK folks....actually, when it comes down to it, us users (of either program) really know nothing. We're just fighting about perceived slights. No one can tell by the tone of any average Poser user, Smith Micro's intentions. And no one can tell by some of Daz's actions of late what they really have planned. Unless you want to fight over perceptions rather than facts, then continue...lol.
Laurie
Which was my point, Laurie. I seriously doubt that what seems to create such angst in end-users (SM or DAZ) is really all that big a deal to either company. They have their objectives, and cross-compatibility - whether DAZ or SM - doesn't appear to be a really big factor. To either of them. So, for us to make angry assumptions about their intentions (because we're not happy that cross-compatibility is not as important to them as it is to us) is a bit near-sighted. They don't care. We shouldn't spend any energy caring either.
Go with what you can get out of either one. I'm sticking with SM for my base application because at the end of the day, there's more flexible bang-for-the-buck. I don't have to pay for a lot of Python stuff people are writing to extend my favourite app. I like that.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
LaurieA posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 10:19 AM
Quote - Go with what you can get out of either one. I'm sticking with SM for my base application because at the end of the day, there's more flexible bang-for-the-buck. I don't have to pay for a lot of Python stuff people are writing to extend my favourite app. I like that.
Me too ;). I just find it odd that some would assume that SM is just being a bitch simply from the tone of it's users (who don't know anything more than they do) :P.
Laurie
RobynsVeil posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 10:27 AM
Quote - > Quote - Go with what you can get out of either one. I'm sticking with SM for my base application because at the end of the day, there's more flexible bang-for-the-buck. I don't have to pay for a lot of Python stuff people are writing to extend my favourite app. I likethat.
Me too ;). I just find it odd that some would assume that SM is just being a bitch simply from the tone of it's users (who don't know anything more than they do) :P.
Laurie
Folks tend to take stuff personally. They're both companies, fer cryin' out loud. And they have their vision about where they want to go. Up to us to make it all work.Just like it's always been, really. After all, isn't this what Poser's been about since day 1? making stuff work?
I so want to learn this weight-mapping feature SM is including: I reckon it's gonna be hot. And we're not limited to one figure set: you name it, we can do weight-mapping magic to it. Brad? Steph 4? Antonia? Victoria 1? Angela? WOW, I seriously LIKE this! What till Terai Yuki gets a taste of this... :biggrin: :woot:
ETA: what the heck am I still doing up? It's 1:30 in the morning on a school night... sheesh. Been editing my step-daughter's 21st birthday piccies in PS (CS3) - my eyes are starting to bubble... :tongue1: :blink:
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
LaurieA posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 10:29 AM
Hmmm...Angela could use some weight mapping too ;)
Laurie
prixat posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 12:32 PM
Quote - Hmmm...Angela could use some weight mapping too ;)
Laurie
That sounds so politically incorrect!
"Darling, does my butt looked weight mapped in this?"
regards
prixat
LaurieA posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 1:52 PM
LOL...
"Honey, your weight mapping is knocking lamps off the table"
:P
Laurie
lkendall posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 3:56 PM
DAZ wants to try and develop their application, D/S, in some different directions from Poser, and have some content that takes advantage of their application’s features. This means at least some incompatibility with the old and new Poser programs. They believe this will be profitable for them, and I hope it will be. They now have, what, a half dozen products that are about as incompatible as the new D/S and Poser? I don't understand this logic, but S/M also has some products that don't exactly mesh at the basic level. I would have thought that complementary applications would be a plus, rather than producing in house competing products, but I guess market pressures paint companies into untenable corners. <shrug.>
DAZ often produces what goes for top-of-the-line content (not that it is nearly the best that could be done, but because it is effectively the best that IS done and that also gets wide support). If they produce content that will work in Poser, or can be converted to work in Poser for a reasonable amount of cost and effort, then I will buy what I like and want. If not, I have 30+ runtimes filled with content, a lifetime membership at PoserWorld, and the money to buy content from other vendors. As I said, this seems like a very bright future for me. :)
I believe, and hope, that DAZ and S/M can take care of themselves, and so do not need me to defend them (as if they would notice much one way or the other). I do worry for content providers, programmers, and the professionals artists who develop for and use Poser and D/S. As an integral part of the Poser/DAZ community, upon whom at least part of the profitability of these companies depend, I am not sure that enough thought has been given to their well being. :( I see this as a poor business decision. I hope the tools become available to assist these small business people, and make it possible for them to support multiple platforms and figures. They are part of the bright future I anticipate.
For those people who want to use D/S and Genesis, I hope they will enjoy their application and content. I cannot see how that would diminish my enjoyment of Poser in the slightest. I don’t mind some friendly rivalry, and I like good art, so I would like to see what they can do. The competition from DAZ and D/S is good for Poser and Poser users. I see no way at this point or in the near future for either application to become dominant.
Seeing that so much will change in about a month when the new Poser versions are released, I prefer to look forward to PoserPro 2012, and to get as ready as I can for it. I want to hear from the beta-team, and the Poser staff. I want to learn more about these features, and to know what products will accompany the release of these programs. I want to see renders NOW from those who have the programs. I would rather focus on Poser than be distracted by DAZ, D/S, and Genesis (unless they have something to offer to me as a Poser user that they do not now have to contribute).
Of course, the give and take between camps is mildly diverting, and the speculations are somewhat entertaining. So, if this is amusing a lot of people, I guess there is no harm done, even though nothing is actually being accomplished by it. I will occasionally wrap up in a blanket, grab my pennant to wave, and sit in the bleachers. Way to go team, and all that...
lmk
Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.
stepson posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 4:14 PM
All fine and good but it is also very rude and trollish for users of another app to flock in to the poser forums every time there is a new release to tell us our app is crap and we should switch for this reason or another. I never say a word at Daz3D (although there are those who do) It would be nice to have somewhere to go to congregate and just be free from that kind of behaivior. People here are snappish? Well is it any wonder?
It is not long befor you start anticipating the return of the vultures each time there is a new release on the horison. From the looks of things here I gather most people just stay home and dont come into the forums during these times. Prudent.
Life is hard, but what a ride.
RobynsVeil posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 9:53 PM
Extremely well-written, lmk... my feeling exactly. You were able to put it all so much more succinctly that I was.
It's Monday morning here in Oz, and I'm realising it's about a month away, my shiny new toy. I've actually got a couple of weeks off work starting the Monday before release date: boy -howdy-, is there gonna ba a party here! :biggrin:
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
3anson posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 10:27 PM
i am ( or was) an avid DS user, only got Poser because i needed it as a beta tester.
i still love using DS3A, bought many plug-ins for it ( and DS2). but i will not be upgrading to DS4, in any form. tried it, hate it. i was very vocal in the forums at DAZ over the complete mess they had made of my favourite 'go-to' app. DS4 has the same bugs in it now, as it did in pre-release beta. reporters were basically ignored unless it was something that DAZ wanted to hear.
another point of contention is the CMS, those of us who really know how to dissect code have found that the way it as been developed is to look for 'AllPorts' instead of just the internal ports it needs to function. in actual fact it 'pings' all the external ports long before it tries any internal port for access to the database. so if your firewall is not configured correctly( most hobby users won't know how to do that) your rig may be left open to anything that drives by.
also, there was no need for it to install as a Windows service( no other database i know of requires that) the reason for it is very clear, it was EASIER to code it as a service, instead of doing the job properly. ( basically they have cut and pasted code together from various sources and fudged it just enough to get it working)
i also stopped my PC membership, as i could see that the way things were going that less and less content would be in that category. PC members will get less for their money in the future, as less and less of the older content will be available and the new stuff will likely by mostly Genesis format.
i will be upgrading my Poser, if i can afford it, as DS is/will be uneconomical to upgrade to the equivalent i have in DS3A. even if i could stand the b****** awful GUI.
LaurieA posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 10:55 PM
Don't hold back 3...let us know how you really feel...LOL.
RobynsVeil posted Sun, 21 August 2011 at 11:05 PM
Well, as one door slowly seems to slide shut, other, more exciting doors are standing ajar (been so for a while, I reckon) - time to start thinking about what we want to see happen in our artform. I've actually sort-of followed Laurie's way of thinking about getting more au-fay with the current way of doing things in terms of like rigging and controlling more than one regions or zone or whatever they're called.
No question in my mind at least that Diogenes has a world of rigging experience of figures - see Antonia and Brad run! - some of which skills which must have sort-of kicked in during his recent play with weight-mapping. Or no? Think it's a good idea to get at least a working knowledge how all that stuff... er... works?
ETA: stuff like this?
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
SteveJax posted Mon, 22 August 2011 at 6:21 AM
DAZ ate my lunch! 
Lucy pulled the ball out from in front of me! 
I'm gonna go eat a can of worms! 
Poser! Poser! Poser! 
tsquare posted Mon, 22 August 2011 at 7:11 AM
That is a neat tutorial. I too will be getting my muffin to work on learning more. The cloth and hair rooms that I have avoided so far will have to be entered and explored, I am thinking.