For any interested parties, DAZ has published draft documentation for their Content Creation Toolkt:

http://wiki.daz3d.com/doku.php/wiki/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/plugins/cct/start

[quote]Summary

DAZ 3D recommends modeling to the Genesis base figure when possible, but acknowledges that some clothing will be more difficult to model on an androgynous figure, as it would be too hard to imagine what the garment would look like on a gendered or specific figure. It is possible to model the OBJ on on your intended shape, convert back to the Genesis™ default shape, and correct the morph as appropriate. [/quote]

 

My Freebies

So the advantage of using a Genesis figure is what exactly?

Your character can change genders in an animation or turn into a werewolf.

That's about it.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

[sarcasm] Yeah, that sounds a lot easier. [/sarcasm]

Laurie

Thanks for the link. I can start to work with this information, even if it is just a draft.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Err, oops, I realize after posting that this technically does not apply to Poser in any way, at least not right now.

Phil I disliked the idea of the neuter base morph from the moment they announced it.  As a content creator it made no sense to me whatsoever, and I'm disappointed but not surprised to see how their process works.  The results are just terrible (not exaggerating, seriously they suck) unless you do vast amounts of work by hand. See attached pic from the tutorial.

e: in case it's not clear what is being shown, this is the process of taking a dress that was modeled around the FBMBasicFemale morph, and getting it rigged for Genesis.  The problem is that the way morphs are handled and applied, the mesh of the garment must be taken back to the base morph, which is drastically different from what you modeled, and then the morph is reversed to the FBMBasicFemale morph... the pic shows the results of those steps.

My Freebies

I think the Genesis project was designed to put money into DAZ's pockets. I don't like it, as referenced by pjz99. But then, I have never liked DAZ, so what does it matter? :D

 

C~

Quote - Your character can change genders in an animation or turn into a werewolf.

That's about it.

Couldn't Apollo turn into a werewolf? And a zombie... And a baby... And smooth enough to do in animation...

                                                                                                                    

Poser 10

Octane Render

Wings 3D

The more hoops that you need to jump through to get to your end product the more chance that errors will get introduced at each jump.

What was the problem that the Genisis figure was created to solve?

Quote - > Quote - Your character can change genders in an animation or turn into a werewolf.

That's about it.

Couldn't Apollo turn into a werewolf? And a zombie... And a baby... And smooth enough to do in animation...

 

I've been wanting to type that from the very beginning when I first saw the Genesis, "Didn't Antons' Apollo do all of that stuff?!??"

 

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

pzj, the after one looks pretty bad.

 

Quote - What was the problem that the Genisis figure was created to solve?

People not spending money and merchants not supporting teriary characters like M4,K4, etc.  The market wants nude or sexily dressed vikis in a temple, daz wants a more balanced store. 

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

No Poser and Genesis means no Genesis support from me. That Content Creation Tool Kit is insanely expensive. I HAVE to have that JUST to make morph INJs and REMs. Forget it; I'll stick with V4/M4.

 

And to answer PhilC's question: the main reason us merchants WOULD like Genesis is that we can configure the UVs to our liking, thereby removing any texture distortion in extreme mesh morphs. Aside from that...the community is depending on Dimesion3D, Nerd3D, and you to come up with some utilities to make sense of this mess.

 

Daz must have a lot of confidence in all of us; they're not making Genesis easy to work with during its intro period.

Can you show an example of how Genesis corrects stretched textures. Please also post a wire frame view of the morphed and unmorphed mesh.

Does it change the actual texture map?

Thanks.

It's not automatic, although you could get that idea from reading the info or watching the vids.  What's going on is there's the CAPACITY to use an alternate UVmap, and switch to it when a parameter dial is set past a certain point.  The UVmap still has to have been done by hand and set up with the figure.

My Freebies

oops, and yeah this feature cannot be exactly duplicated in Poser, although it could be done with geometry switching (certainly a bit messy).

My Freebies

Much the same as you can currently do in Poser with any figure using Python?

texvertex = poser.Scene().CurrentActor().Geometry().TexVertices(index)
texvertex.SetU(value)
texvertex.SetV(value)

Alternatively, and this may prove to be very much easier, simply swap the geometry using the method shown in the Poser 2 figures. Yes this has been available since Poser 2.

Search Buisiness Man P2.cr2 for "alternateGeom" and "geomChan" for the required lines.

Poser library files have always been text based so it is very easy to get into them and tinker.

 

If I ever do an animation the requires monster morphing, I might give DS4 and the G figure a try. Until then, I have about 12 years worth of 'old' figures to convert to weightmapping and see how well they perform. There are just too many new features in Ppro2012 and P9; and the setup tools are included, not purchased add-ons.

 

How many of your scripts are going to get updated to 2.7 Python, Phil? (and it would be soooo nice if Metaform were either open sourced and updated, or just updated and multithreaded. It wasn't RealFlow, but it could do a fair amount of it. Or if some Python guru came up with something similar...... :D ) 

All of them with the possible exception of the very old original Clothing Creator. My aim is to have them done by the end of this week. Other than compiling under the new version of Python all that will be required is check that everything is working and still relevant. Pop up dialogs will probably be converted to wxPython rather than the current xml style.

There is an issue however regarding the thousand upon thousands of Poser users who have downloaded the scripts illegally. I'm sure that they will be wanting to update also.

Quote - There is an issue however regarding the thousand upon thousands of Poser users who have downloaded the scripts illegally. I'm sure that they will be wanting to update also.

 

Laurie

I do not find it funny.

What incentive do I have to update my scripts?

Quote - No Poser and Genesis means no Genesis support from me. That Content Creation Tool Kit is insanely expensive. I HAVE to have that JUST to make morph INJs and REMs. Forget it; I'll stick with V4/M4.

Oooorrr, you could start making stuff for Antonia.

Quote - I do not find it funny.

What incentive do I have to update my scripts?

 

those of us that did buy them?

why punish us for those that did'nt? we did the right thing..

My earlier post indicated that my target is to get the scripts updated by the end of the week. I'm unclear how that can be seen as punishing legitimate purchasers?

Quote - > Quote - No Poser and Genesis means no Genesis support from me. That Content Creation Tool Kit is insanely expensive. I HAVE to have that JUST to make morph INJs and REMs. Forget it; I'll stick with V4/M4.

Oooorrr, you could start making stuff for Antonia.

True. I'll make a little something and give it away for free when its done.
where is the latest Antonia anyway - I lost my links when my old computer died...

The dynamic clothes fit Antonia with some re-sizing of course:P

Quote - My earlier post indicated that my target is to get the scripts updated by the end of the week. I'm unclear how that can be seen as punishing legitimate purchasers?

 

erm read back? the I don't find it funny, whats the incentive....? sorry if I misunderstood your meaning but reading it, the whole thing that came across here was, "why should I update if it gets pirated"

No problem.

Quote - What was the problem that the Genisis figure was created to solve?

 

I think I can help answer this, from an end-user perspective.

 

Most meshes (Apollo aside) are basically crap for making human figures that go too far beyond the original shape, proportions, and size. 

If you want to make, say, a woman who is petite and just a bit chunkier than a runway model (you know, make a normal person), you have four choices:

1. spin a ton of dials on V4 and pray that it doesn't bork the joints or start chewing the mesh.

2. take a smaller mesh (e.g. Laura/L3), hang breasts on it, mature it enough to escape the child look, and try to contend with that gawdawful face they gave it. Oh, and now you have to get clothes that fit your little decision (Cross-dresser works in some cases, your product works in some cases, etc. - but not everyone has the dosh to load up on such apps or the patience to run 'em.)

3. use the default Poser female, which, well... urgh. 

4. break out a modeling app, and make your own morphs.

Now most for folks, they only get option #1 and 3 - neither of which is palatable.

With Genesis, the idea is to ditch all of that crap. You just dial what you want, it all bends just fine, and the clothes will even follow. 

 

Now yeah, this is going to mean a buttload of work on the merchant side, but I suspect that the plus side is that you (well, eventually) only have to support one mesh/model - especially for things like hair, textures, and a lot of different types of clothing.

 

HTH a little...

Quote - I do not find it funny.

What incentive do I have to update my scripts?

Well, the way you said it was funny...not the situation, of course.

Laurie

Quote - Now yeah, this is going to mean a buttload of work on the merchant side, but I suspect that the plus side is that you (well, eventually) only have to support one mesh/model - especially for things like hair, textures, and a lot of different types of clothing.

I dunno how much conformer rigging you have done, but if that was the goal they missed the mark by about a million miles.  This is a huge step backwards and will fuck up the content market something chronic.  I thought the neuter base was a bad idea from the get-go and the CCT documentation confirms this.

e: and people just noodling around making freebies, fuhgeddaboudid

My Freebies

Quote - e: and people just noodling around making freebies, fuhgeddaboudid

Looks like I'll still be doing just Poser-only...lol.

Laurie

> Quote - > 2) take a smaller mesh (e.g. Laura/L3), hang breasts on it, mature it enough to escape the child look, and try to contend with that gawdawful face they gave it. Oh, and now you have to get clothes that fit your little decision (Cross-dresser works in some cases, your product works in some cases, etc. - but not everyone has the dosh to load up on such apps or the patience to run 'em.)

Hey! Laura's doesn't have a godawful face! Why do you think I like to use her as a main character in my web comic?

Quote -
Looks like I'll still be doing just Poser-only...lol.

Laurie

 

Now that's a shocker!

 

(...what?)

How many Genesis renders are in the galleries?

Quote - The more hoops that you need to jump through to get to your end product the more chance that errors will get introduced at each jump. What was the problem that the Genisis figure was created to solve?

You make a good point Phil. And I think Daz looked at it the same way.

The Genisis system cuts down on the amount of development work that Daz has to do. Now that they have a base, they will find a million different ways to market addons and variants for it. They are doing the same thing with the program as well by making it modular/extension based.

When that bases profits nose dive, all they need is a new base.

So with that said, the problem they were trying to solve was a developement to profit percentage one.

Think of it the same way as a Chrysler K car. Lee Iacocca took one base (Minimax project) and made about 60 different models of vans/cars/and even a little pickup truck out of the same thing. All of them used the same drivetrains, suspension, interiors, doors etc.

On the developer end, they have also figured out how to get more money from that by requiring you to own certain extensions, based on your product, before you can even submit an item for consideration in Daz's store.

In the end, it's the black ink. Companies don't like things in the red.

---

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store ->   <-Freebies->

Quote - > Quote -

Looks like I'll still be doing just Poser-only...lol.

Laurie

 

Now that's a shocker!

 

(...what?)

Yep, yep...a real shoker.

Laurie

Quote - All of them with the possible exception of the very old original Clothing Creator. My aim is to have them done by the end of this week. Other than compiling under the new version of Python all that will be required is check that everything is working and still relevant. Pop up dialogs will probably be converted to wxPython rather than the current xml style.

There is an issue however regarding the thousand upon thousands of Poser users who have downloaded the scripts illegally. I'm sure that they will be wanting to update also.

 

Well, speaking on behalf of all us paying customers, these freeloaders don't deserve any support, PhilC !!

Eternal Hobbyist

 

Agreed about the pirates. 

(no worries here... I don't even have a Windows version of anything newer than Poser 4/PP).

==

 

Quote - Hey! Laura's doesn't have a godawful face! Why do you think I like to use her as a main character in my web comic?

I meant that it's gawdawful in that morphing it past it's original look takes an act of Congress, The Divine, or Both - with no guarantees.

 

==

Quote - Yep, yep...a real shoker.

 

Laurie

 

You do know that unless it's dynamic, it'll still work perfectly in DAZ Studio too, right?

 

(/me stands back in case her head goes 'splodey...)

Pretty sure she means she'll stick to the Poser toolset, instead of Genesis/CCT.

My Freebies

Quote - Agreed about the pirates. 

(no worries here... I don't even have a Windows version of anything newer than Poser 4/PP).

==

 

Quote - Hey! Laura's doesn't have a godawful face! Why do you think I like to use her as a main character in my web comic?

I meant that it's gawdawful in that morphing it past it's original look takes an act of Congress, The Divine, or Both - with no guarantees.

 

==

Quote - Yep, yep...a real shoker.

 

Laurie

 

You do know that unless it's dynamic, it'll still work perfectly in DAZ Studio too, right?

 

(/me stands back in case her head goes 'splodey...)

I know...lol. It's just that a lot of the shaders I make won't work. Never did figure out DS's Shader Mixer.

Quote - I know...lol. It's just that a lot of the shaders I make won't work. Never did figure out DS's Shader Mixer.

That's really it for me too.

Now, if there was a utility to make Poser shaders work exactly the same in DAZ Studio...

 

"You do know that unless it's dynamic, it'll still work perfectly in DAZ Studio too, right?"

 

aaaand looking and lauries stuff (clothes)... it's mostly dynamics....

Quote - Now, if there was a utility to make Poser shaders work exactly the same in DAZ Studio...

 

There is something that's pretty close (though I cannot say from experience whether the behavior would be the same): http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=61508&flatnum=1

 

Edit: for those allergic to the DAZ fora, you can download it for free here: http://www.sharecg.com/v/24711/plug-in/Eilir

 

 

Attached Link: http://www.dataaq.net/mutiphone.mp4

Well, I hope my site don’t crash, or they dock me for bandwidth usage, here is a quick basic animation using a classic rigged toon, and the genesis rigged toon.  I didn’t use anything special just some stock stuff and animate 2, They don’t seem to animate as sharp and clean, and no matter how hard I tried I cannot get the feet to work correctly.  This relates to poser because I use animate to do my animations then take them in to poser and do the clothing and hair.  I noticed the feet mess up will transfer with the pz2 file and mess poser rigs up, but normal rigs will not.  There is no link page for my site, my main site is my resume start so the link will take you to the mp4 file directly.  I’ll put in a sub domain one day when I’m not working ungodly hours.

 

the vidio should load quick its phone size :) Just make the link muti.mp4 for the lager one.  It may be slow if a bunch of people try all at once.

 

 

"There is something that's pretty close (though I cannot say from experience whether the behavior would be the same): "

Wow, look at all those people in that thread who want Poser by any other name.

lmk

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Yeah - it's amazing what people who aren't all wrapped up in fanboi loyalties desire, isn't it? 

 

Everybody's a fanboi, whether it's Poser or Daz.

Laurie

If wishes were fishes, eh?

 

Me, I no longer care. I just have fun with those who still do. ;)

Thanks for the link to that Penguinisto!

Quote - Much the same as you can currently do in Poser with any figure using Python?

texvertex = poser.Scene().CurrentActor().Geometry().TexVertices(index)
texvertex.SetU(value)
texvertex.SetV(value)

Alternatively, and this may prove to be very much easier, simply swap the geometry using the method shown in the Poser 2 figures. Yes this has been available since Poser 2.

Search Buisiness Man P2.cr2 for "alternateGeom" and "geomChan" for the required lines.

Poser library files have always been text based so it is very easy to get into them and tinker.

 

 

is it possible to put more than one geometry swap on a dial?  like dial value set to 3 switches to obj 3

 

thanks.

---

♥ My Gallery Albums    ♥   My YT   ♥   Party in the CarrarArtists Forum  ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff

Quote - How many Genesis renders are in the galleries?

i've u/l a few.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2244884

Geni has an extra abdomen and it doesn't bulge so much, i wasn't able to do the gymnist pose with the other characters, even with trying to adjust the bulge settings.

 

i would love to be able to subdivide James 6's mesh a bit more than it is, without losing the expression and viseme morphs.

---

♥ My Gallery Albums    ♥   My YT   ♥   Party in the CarrarArtists Forum  ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff

Quote - > Quote - Agreed about the pirates. 

(no worries here... I don't even have a Windows version of anything newer than Poser 4/PP).

==

 

Quote - Hey! Laura's doesn't have a godawful face! Why do you think I like to use her as a main character in my web comic?

I meant that it's gawdawful in that morphing it past it's original look takes an act of Congress, The Divine, or Both - with no guarantees.

 

==

Quote - Yep, yep...a real shoker.

 

Laurie

 

You do know that unless it's dynamic, it'll still work perfectly in DAZ Studio too, right?

 

(/me stands back in case her head goes 'splodey...)

I know...lol. It's just that a lot of the shaders I make won't work. Never did figure out DS's Shader Mixer.

[heavy sarcasm] I finally did, Laurie. It was meant to demonstrate to Microsoft that software can vapourise without a trace when using a BETA component. I'm sure Microsoft would be very surprised to hear about this, if they were told. Which they probably weren't, but boy, would their faces be red! [/heavy sarcasm]

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

Quote - > Quote - Now, if there was a utility to make Poser shaders work exactly the same in DAZ Studio...

There is something that's pretty close (though I cannot say from experience whether the behavior would be the same): http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=61508&flatnum=1

Edit: for those allergic to the DAZ fora, you can download it for free here: http://www.sharecg.com/v/24711/plug-in/Eilir

Actually what would be awesome for DS would be the ability to script shaders instead of having to use that Eilir/SM interface, which is pretty bloody awful. That's when it doesn't vapourise the base app (DS3Adv). Before you say: "but you can script DS shaders" - I meant to add: in a reasonably easy language like Python, not RSL. Ever look at it? I feel like I'm coding a new OS from the ground up. The only thing harder to learn than RSL is Assembly language. :blink:

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

DAZ|Script isn't that bad if you're familiar with ECMA standards (for the audience: think of Java).  

 

May want to look into going that route.

You can script a shader mixer shader, but it isn't very user friendly - look at a Materials or Shader preset 9saved as ASCII if you want to use an external text editor) for an SM shader. In theory it would be possible for someone to write a script to build a customised shader, or even a new plugin for building them.

Quote - DAZ|Script isn't that bad if you're familiar with ECMA standards (for the audience: think of Java).

I consult for living in (among other things) Java and JavaScript but don't take my word, listen to The Man himself.

GIMP 2.7.4, Inkscape 0.48, Genetica 3.6 Basic, FilterForge 3 Professional, Blender 2.61, SketchUp 8, PoserPro 2012, Vue 10 Infinite, World Machine 2.3, GeoControl 2

Quote - You can script a shader mixer shader, but it isn't very user friendly - look at a Materials or Shader preset 9saved as ASCII if you want to use an external text editor) for an SM shader. In theory it would be possible for someone to write a script to build a customised shader, or even a new plugin for building them.

The script route was what I was thinking, but you're right, a plugin would be a bit more complete.

Something with at least a basic UI to set the parts the user needs could make it user-friendly, but this would take a bit of design beforehand. 

I always thought that DAZ should do more to make it easier to introduce and mix up IBL/AOL into a scene as well. 3Delight can do some very decent renders, but it seems as if nobody really wants to make the more complex portions accessible. 

 

Me, I've just been lazy and shoved it out to LuxRender, though that takes a metric ton of time to render.

 

Something to think on, though... :)

Luxrender does a wonderful job, but lately I have to be in the mood for wait for its glacial slowness ;). It sorta reminds me of my old Vue2/3 days when I'd let something render for 2 days :P. I do love that we have it and would hope that some enterprising folks would do the same for Kerkythea, etc.

Laurie

if we get Kerky, then we also get Thea Render (same team)

Indeed... I'm still tweaking around with the idea of turning my home (Linux, Ubuntu) server into a render node of sorts... export to .lxs, copy it to the server, then launch it there. I can then ignore it until it's done, while my laptop gets freed up to do other bits.