Ok, folks, this needs to stop.

We're all grown ups. But, whenever DAZ is brought up, this place turns into a bar on Football night with two big groups rooting for each team. I get that there are long-term customers who are exclusive Poser users who are upset with the direction things seem to be moving. You have every right to feel your feelings. However, we here at Renderosity can't do anything about it. Getting over upset about it won't do anything but make other people upset at you, and...well, then we're off topic and attacking someone.

And on the other side...we also get that there are people who see the directions DAZ is going in as necessary, growth creating, and the best way forward. You have every right to have that opinion. And we shouldn't be attempting to force people into changing that opinion simply because this is the Poser forum.

And the attacks in BOTH directions have GOT TO STOP. They are no longer [ ] this close to being personal attacks. THEY ARE PERSONAL ATTACKS. And they need to stop. NOW. Because we WILL be handing out warnings from now on. If a post makes you angry, get away from the computer, and walk away. Get away from the thread. Do not take it personal. In short, don't be this guy:

Jeni

edited for clarity

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

And for your next trick, World Peace ?

I agree with you, Jeni. Arguing over this stuff is non-productive and a waste of energy. I'm as guilty - if not more than guilty - of this than anyone. I'm done, I promise. The subject comes up, I walk away.

Hugs,
Robyn

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

Aww, c'mon, how else can a guy talk about corporations sacrificing newborn infants on the great altar of Victoria Strabismus abs Templum ab Gladius?

I even got the scene all staked out and half-written! I got Hollywood on the phone here!

(cue Cartman voice)

'yer breakin' my balls, Jen... breakin' my balls here.' :)

hey Tom.

how about dropping the smartass act and following the rules for once? you'd expect the same at the forums you help at, so why act up here? hmm?

not that I expect a straight answer from you, but how about for once just doing what your asked to?

It was a joke!

Geez. Tough crowd. Thank Heaven for the two-drink minimum... waitress!

(edited to remove a piece, just to soften the tone a touch.)

Quote - Aww, c'mon, how else can a guy talk about corporations sacrificing newborn infants on the great altar of Victoria Strabismus abs Templum ab Gladius?

I even got the scene all staked out and half-written! I got Hollywood on the phone here!

(cue Cartman voice)

'yer breakin' my balls, Jen... breakin' my balls here.' :)

We give everyone a blog. I suggest you take it there.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

no, jokes are Funny

Quote -
We give everyone a blog. I suggest you take it there.

Umm, nah. Last time I did that, it took down one Poser-centric forum, launched a different one on daz3d.com (no, not in that order), and drove multiple merchants to tears and rage.

I'm a kinder, gentler a-hole now. Heck, I'm even a nice one on occasion (just don't tell anybody).

Now don't you worry - I'll behave, n' stuff.

Oh, wait - you meant a blog here...

Let me think about that.

Here's a novel idea: why don't Poser users post in this forum, and D|S users post in that forum? I mean no one wants to hear about MAX in the Cinema forum. True, D|S and Poser are somewhat linked, but diverging more and more.

And if you see something you don't like? Want to do the worst thing possible to that post? Ignore it. Guaranteed way to not make yourself look silly, and discourages further incursions.

Of course, all of you know this already. Easier said than done sort of thing. If you must, type it out in notepad, then delete. Have a rant on FB. Tell your dog (or kitty) all about it. Better yet, dive into your platform of choice and create something.

For gosh sakes, this isn't important enough to get stressed out. No one is bleeding.

I betcha lots of folks who are Prime members here are also Platinum Club members there. Daz sells lots of good stuff for Poser. Rendo vendors are starting to sell products compatible with Genesis. A lot of us Poser users shop at both markets. It would be a poorer 3D world if either marketplace were to go away. I'm still mourning Aery Soul.

Quote -
And if you see something you don't like? Want to do the worst thing possible to that post? Ignore it. Guaranteed way to not make yourself look silly, and discourages further incursions.

Sound advice indeed. :)

Quote - Here's a novel idea: why don't Poser users post in this forum, and D|S users post in that forum?

What about people like myself who use DAZ Studio and Poser?

Coldrake

Ditto. I use both too. And Carrara. And Vue.

And what about the mass amount of Poser users who post on the Daz forums? Should they be locked out because they use different apps?

I have to say that I enjoyed the locked V5 thread. It was very interesting to read.

Especially Penguinisto's, Coldrake's and Wolf's posts. They were the sound of reason lol

Quote - Here's a novel idea: why don't Poser users post in this forum, and D|S users post in that forum? I mean no one wants to hear about MAX in the Cinema forum. True, D|S and Poser are somewhat linked, but diverging more and more.

And if you see something you don't like? Want to do the worst thing possible to that post? Ignore it. Guaranteed way to not make yourself look silly, and discourages further incursions.

Of course, all of you know this already. Easier said than done sort of thing. If you must, type it out in notepad, then delete. Have a rant on FB. Tell your dog (or kitty) all about it. Better yet, dive into your platform of choice and create something.

For gosh sakes, this isn't important enough to get stressed out. No one is bleeding.

While it would cut down on the fighting in this forum, the simple fact is, many users use both, and many future new users will use both. If a new member posts a question on how to export V5 into Poser, will we run them out on the rails (face it, no one uses the search function, and YES, it IS useful, it's just not google)? That's not what we're about AT ALL.

I agree that it's less important to avoid arguments, and the best way is to ignore things that you might disagree with. I've asked for that several times over, and it's come to the point where it's apparent people don't listen to requests so I have to kind of make demands and be the bad guy. It's ok, I'm used to it. Your alternate suggestions are also REALLY good. It gets the stress out, and it doesn't break a fight out here.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Attached Link: Alfa Seed - Formery Aery Soul

> Quote - I betcha lots of folks who are Prime members here are also Platinum Club members there. Daz sells lots of good stuff for Poser. Rendo vendors are starting to sell products compatible with Genesis. A lot of us Poser users shop at both markets. It would be a poorer 3D world if either marketplace were to go away. I'm still mourning Aery Soul.

Excellent point. We have a lot more in common than we all think.

(Also, Aery Soul has changed their name to Alfa Seed, and mostly sell at RDNA now ;) )

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - Ditto. I use both too. And Carrara. And Vue.

And what about the mass amount of Poser users who post on the Daz forums? Should they be locked out because they use different apps?

I have to say that I enjoyed the locked V5 thread. It was very interesting to read.

Especially Penguinisto's, Coldrake's and Wolf's posts. They were the sound of reason lol

TBH, the main reason I locked it last night is because most of the inflammatory posts (from both sides of this argument!) happen while staff on this side of the world are asleep and the mod on the other side of the world is at work. And, frankly, no staff member should have to watch a thread intently to make sure no one's lobbing attacks, especially in a forum of (mainly) adults.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

What have I said in the past? Poser (and D|S) is a bit of software for making pictures.

What in the world is there to get worked up about?

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Quote - (Also, Aery Soul has changed their name to Alfa Seed, and mostly sell at RDNA now ;) )

Thanks, I did see Alfa Seed at RDNA and it was obvious it was connected to the old Aery Soul (the style of products, use of Alice as the model). But it seems to be only new products. The old Aery Soul catalog (which included lots of cool free stuff) is gone. Maybe there is some legal reason they can't offer those any more, or perhaps they chose to start fresh and build a new catalog. I wonder if there will be any Alice updates at Alfa Seed.

I tried DS but just can't get used to the interface and stuff, despite it's free (or something) I'm still gonna stick to my Poser Pro.

I'm halting all of my future purchases at the moment as the news of Vicky 5 release is near.

I hope Vicky 5 works in Poser, however I have so much stuff for V4 and even for poor old V3, I could never buy another thing and I would be set for life.

P.S: don't interpret my silence as acceptation or caving in or agreement; it is simply utter disgust.

GIMP 2.7.4, Inkscape 0.48, Genetica 3.6 Basic, FilterForge 3 Professional, Blender 2.61, SketchUp 8, PoserPro 2012, Vue 10 Infinite, World Machine 2.3, GeoControl 2

I see no reason for any bashing, people can vote with their purse for what they desire and they can be sure that the companies will listen.

I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!

And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!

Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:

The Home Of The Living Dolls

That's the same way I feel. Thanks for making my point Sam. Makes no sense to fight about such a silly thing.The other endlessly repeating thread regards Vicky 1,2,3, 4 vs. OTHERS.We've seen these threads pop up endlessly. Just do a search

What have I said in the past? Poser (and D|S) is a bit of software for making pictures.

What in the world is there to get worked up about?

It wasn't me! I wasn't there. I'm not the droid you're looking for. ![](http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/art/emoticons/cool.gif) I'd like to say I've grown patience in my old age but who's kidding whom? In other words, I don't have a dog in this race.

Damn, I always miss the good stuff.

I use both Poser and Daz for many, many years. I'm just not as active as I once was and I certainly don't need anymore new Vicky's or Mike's lol. Dont care how many new versions come out.

shrugs.

Quote - I tried DS but just can't get used to the interface and stuff, despite it's free (or something) I'm still gonna stick to my Poser Pro.

I'm halting all of my future purchases at the moment as the news of Vicky 5 release is near.

The new interface does have different options - a couple are pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUKSB0iL2k0

Kevin

Yup, what Sam said.

I've always wondered why people get so worked up about platforms and render engines. The only thing I can come up with is that they've sunk a chunk of money in one, and feel they have to defend their decision. When you think about it, isn't what comes out the other end of whatever you use more important?

Quote - ...I certainly don't need anymore new Vicky's or Mike's lol.

V5 is the definitely, absolutely, positively the last figure you'll ever need... till V6 arrives. :biggrin:

regards
prixat

Actually can't talk about poser without DS anymore as we will be using DS to move the V5s etc into poser (yes I know some of you won't use V5 ever but I will)

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

BOP! But you could have had a V8! LOL!

...and I am so sorry meanwhile that I did not make bookmarks to some threads when V3 and V4 came out because the tenor was always the same: She is butt-ugly, I will never-ever use her! And yes, that's what we see in the galleries

I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!

And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!

Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:

The Home Of The Living Dolls

@SaintFox:

The more things change, the more they stay the same... ;)

(...and if you look at the V2-V3 threads way the hell back when... )

I know! :laugh: So you found them? Be sure to make bookmarks for linking to them as soon as the same things starts again.

I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!

And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!

Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:

The Home Of The Living Dolls

I always knew that televising the revolution was a bad idea.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

it isn't daz vs poser anymore, it is against opensource Blender.

No, seriously i think it will be DS vs poser because the V5 is being released soon ( i think within days). there will be some special sale bundle price and all the add-ons on special sale etc, and then the poser people will either spend money on something they can't use, or madly curse as they see beautiful DS renders of V5 and think they might buy her later if the exporter ever dose come.

I think the swearing and the tears and the "well it's all one company's fault" or "you should blame the other company" or "it will never work in poser. I told you so" etc, or "we can make a better model out of allyson with a great texture and a few morphs" (insert fairly uninspiring render here)

is going to happen again but even worse than ever.

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

I sure hope they bring out that exporter soon but it doesn't look like they will.

Love esther

PS the only comforting thing is when I go to the DAZ forums commons half the renders of V5 they have posted just show up as a line of html text and I can't see the pic at all.

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

Quote - PS the only comforting thing is when I go to the DAZ forums commons half the renders of V5 they have posted just show up as a line of html text and I can't see the pic at all.

That happens if you are not logged in.

They changed it recently, because people who were not logged in were seeing nudity and griping about it. So now, if you're not logged in, you don't see the images.

They changed it recently, because people who were not logged in were seeing nudity and griping about it.

Really? But those people are aware that these are 3d-models?! Seems they do never makeany kind of google-search and run into a nasty site by accident... Kind of naive IMHO :laugh:*

I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!

And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!

Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:

The Home Of The Living Dolls

"No, seriously i think it will be DS vs poser because the V5 is being released soon ( i think within days). there will be some special sale bundle price and all the add-ons on special sale etc, and then the poser people will either spend money on something they can't use, or madly curse as they see beautiful DS renders of V5 and think they might buy her later if the exporter ever dose come.

I think the swearing and the tears and the "well it's all one company's fault" or "you should blame the other company" or "it will never work in poser. I told you so" etc, or "we can make a better model out of allyson with a great texture and a few morphs" (insert fairly uninspiring render here)

is going to happen again but even worse than ever.

Love esther"

V5 OFFICIALLY RELEASED TODAY FOR DAZ STUDIO

edit For platnunim clubbers only right now!!

Enjoy!!!

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

Can we please keep this to the original topic? This is NOT about announcing figures. This is NOT about arguing about programs. This is basically me ASKING YOU GUYS TO ACT LIKE ADULTS IN THE FORUM. If you can't do that, this is not the place for you.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - They changed it recently, because people who were not logged in were seeing nudity and griping about it.

Really? But those people are aware that these are 3d-models?! Seems they do never makeany kind of google-search and run into a nasty site by accident... Kind of naive IMHO :laugh:*

Well, you do know that the last thing some folks want their kids to see is a bunch of naked Cartesian coordinates. That kind of thing can lead to perversions like String Theory, you know.

LOL So Barbie is meanwhile sold with a painted-on bikini?

I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!

And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!

Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:

The Home Of The Living Dolls

I've been checking Daz website regarding V5 and been thinking, in order to own Victoria 5 and make it work in Poser Pro 2012, I have to purchase Platinum Club membership, V5 package and Daz Studio (whichever version) and other various background support softwares, even that V5 still won't work properly in Poser. So what are the Daz developers up to?

I do not think that you need a Platinum Club membership. It's normal that the new figures are available a bit earlier (and with a discount) for Platinum Club Members. As far as I know the discount for PC-Members will last until October 31 - so there's a good chance that V5 is available to the public (and the full price) at November 1. That's just a guess but usually it has been that way with the difference that the basic figure (without morphs) was available for far less (wasn't V4 free for PC members?).

But if you just want V5 and nothing else there is no reason to get a PC membership (although new members get a 30$ voucher when they sign up bevor the PC anniversary is over).

I myself would really like to make use of the discount (I am a PC member) but on the other hand may end up with wasted money if V5 does not work fully in Poser (sooner or later). I bought DS3 Advanced and never really got it to work flawless although I picked up all the updates and tried each and everything recommended in forums. So it may be understandable that I really regret the money spent on it and on several add-ons. Yes, I know - the money back-guarantee...

But I so much hoped that the problems where ironed out sooner or later. Instead DS4 was created - that I skipped (beside the free version) as more as I can't afford to buy all the extras that will give me results I am used to from Poser.

I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!

And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!

Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:

The Home Of The Living Dolls

I have Platinum Club membership as well, but so far I don't like what I see regarding Victoria 5 and all that troubles just to get it to work in Poser, IMO it's just too expensive unless they produce a Poser compatible version. I've tried the free version of Daz Studio before, never quite liked it.

There's one more thing, is V5 based on the Genesis figure? If so then V5 certainly will not work in Poser, since Genesis is a Daz Studio exclusive figure and so are its derived figures as well.

If Jen will allow me a clarification post: you do not need to buy DS4 - the free version* has the CR2 exporter that will output a weight-mapped Genesis figure for use in Poser (with limitations, and currently base figure and not clothing or other conformers). There's a long thread at DAZ on the CR2 exporter for additional details. currently free, not sure if the long-term free version that's meant to replace it will have the CR2 exporter

Absolutely, Richard! Thank you for the clarification! I'd rather clear truth from the horse's mouth (well, the cat's anyway :biggrin:) than speculation any day!

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

I am following the mentioned thread and of course picked up the free DS4 version as soon as I got the notification. I even bought a set of morphs for Genesis because I hoped for a solution to use Genesis in Poser sooner or later.

But spending any more has to wait until V5 or any other variation of Genesis works flawless in Poser, with clothes. I can see the differences between the programs (Subdivision in this case) but my artistic and commercial works is highly bound to Poser materials and the classic dynamic clothes that can be created from any object with a suitable mesh that you have or create.

I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!

And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!

Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:

The Home Of The Living Dolls

"I am following the mentioned thread and of course picked up the free DS4 version as soon as I got the notification"

Hope it's working well for you. I've always been puzzled why so many people seem to have problems running DS. I can't even run DS4, my "system" is so laughably below the specs, but DS3A and every other version has worked pretty flawlessly. That's with a wildly eclectic mix of applications, development software, an oddball mix of dlls registered etc. Puzzling.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Well... it's working so far, unfortunatly not flawless, it crashes out of unknown reasons here and there, so working with it is a bit (too) tedious. But for converting things it should work well enough.

I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!

And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!

Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:

The Home Of The Living Dolls

Quote - JenX Ok, folks, this needs to stop.

We're all grown ups. But, whenever DAZ is brought up, this place turns into a bar on Football night with two big groups rooting for each team. I get that there are long-term customers who are exclusive Poser users who are upset with the direction things seem to be moving. You have every right to feel your feelings. However, we here at Renderosity can't do anything about it. Getting over upset about it won't do anything but make other people upset at you, and...well, then we're off topic and attacking someone.

And on the other side...we also get that there are people who see the directions DAZ is going in as necessary, growth creating, and the best way forward. You have every right to have that opinion. And we shouldn't be attempting to force people into changing that opinion simply because this is the Poser forum.

I for one support you 120%! I for one cannot live without either;

Poser for it's outstanding render engine, dynamic hair and an outstanding dynamic cloth engine. (due to the fact you can make all one-sided clothing meshes dynamic!)

Daz for it's innovative character models, highly customizable (For the truly geeky) interface, and it's incredible plugins!

To use/support only one is your choice which should not be used as a weapon against someone else's contrary opinion. (Opinions are NOT fact...Fact is fact! ;^D )

Quote - And the attacks in BOTH directions have GOT TO STOP. They are no longer [ ] this close to being personal attacks. THEY ARE PERSONAL ATTACKS. And they need to stop. NOW. Because we WILL be handing out warnings from now on. If a post makes you angry, get away from the computer, and walk away. Get away from the thread. Do not take it personal.

Actually, that's the main problem, there are some who choose to take things said/heard here too personally, either as a reaction because they suspect ill will or people with an acidic response, because they do, which boils down to no attempt in trying to understand where the other is coming from. Unfortunately, those who actively choose this type of behavior, usually "get offended" and therefore; they feel justified in lashing back just to get even so they won't lose "face."

It seems to me that this pall of negativity has clearly established it's home here simply because that type of behavior was, and still is (to a lesser degree) tolorated here.

I am glad that you (As a mod/Admin) are deterring this type of behavior by getting tough with those who contribute to a negative enviroment in these forums with "snarky" and spiteful responses as the veiled vitriol that it is, because while a snarky/spiteful comment might start off as a bit of harmless banter, if left to it's own devices, can have a lasting effect as one of many contributors for a forum out of control.

I remember when these forums was just that, where you had people "yelling" and cursing at each other so much that the Mods/Admins were clearly overwhelmed and was a little over-zealous with the ban hammer, and because of this, I haven't came back to this forum often, because of the rotten and spiteful attitude that was/is the reputation of this forum, which does more to set a negative view towards it's members and site as a whole, because a forum is the voice of every web-site.

The best way to combat this, would be to delete negative posts that do not contribute to a positive atmosphere that everyone here deserves!

Quote - I have Platinum Club membership as well, but so far I don't like what I see regarding Victoria 5 and all that troubles just to get it to work in Poser, IMO it's just too expensive unless they produce a Poser compatible version. I've tried the free version of Daz Studio before, never quite liked it.

There's one more thing, is V5 based on the Genesis figure? If so then V5 certainly will not work in Poser, since Genesis is a Daz Studio exclusive figure and so are its derived figures as well.

Actually, the updated D|S4 has cr2 export capibillities for genesis! It even has Daz's muscle flex morph support!

I just want to clarify some things, and, TBH, takezo, I'm not picking on you, but there are some things that I wanted to clarify.

It's REALLY hard to get banned from here, even temporarily. We have ALWAYS, since I started on staff in 2005 (back then as MorriganShadow), leaned in favor of educating members before punishment. It's those who repeatedly break the same rules (or different rules) without reading the TOS (which has only changed a few times since I joined the staff, and most of those changes were for clarification purposes). There are VERY few things that will get you banned on a first offense, and they will usually get you banned ANYWHERE on a first offense. We have a zero tolerance for spamming, site-hacking, and warez. That's it. Everyone that I've ever witnessed, on the staff side, being banned was REPEATEDLY educated on what the TOS said, asked to read the TOS, and asked to come to staff if they needed anything clarified. (For the record, I have permanently banned less than 5 active members. And none in the last 2 years. Many who say they were banned actually weren't.)

There is a LOT of stuff that we staff members used to do to make this place more fun. We've had to curb a lot of it to watch the forums and galleries like a hawk. We ALL have jobs/school/families outside of Renderosity, and these are all volunteer positions. So, yes, I can think of about a million things I'd rather be doing on this site than policing threads on a site where we expect people to act with respect for one another.

Sitemail | Freestuff | Craftythings | Youtube|

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Quote - I just want to clarify some things, and, TBH, takezo, I'm not picking on you, but there are some things that I wanted to clarify.

It's REALLY hard to get banned from here, even temporarily. We have ALWAYS, since I started on staff in 2005 (back then as MorriganShadow), leaned in favor of educating members before punishment. It's those who repeatedly break the same rules (or different rules) without reading the TOS (which has only changed a few times since I joined the staff, and most of those changes were for clarification purposes). There are VERY few things that will get you banned on a first offense, and they will usually get you banned ANYWHERE on a first offense. We have a zero tolerance for spamming, site-hacking, and warez. That's it. Everyone that I've ever witnessed, on the staff side, being banned was REPEATEDLY educated on what the TOS said, asked to read the TOS, and asked to come to staff if they needed anything clarified. (For the record, I have permanently banned less than 5 active members. And none in the last 2 years. Many who say they were banned actually weren't.)

There is a LOT of stuff that we staff members used to do to make this place more fun. We've had to curb a lot of it to watch the forums and galleries like a hawk. We ALL have jobs/school/families outside of Renderosity, and these are all volunteer positions. So, yes, I can think of about a million things I'd rather be doing on this site than policing threads on a site where we expect people to act with respect for one another.

Ironic that I remember having a similar conversation on this very subject some 6 yrs past! I was wondering why there was so much tension here at these forums this was around the same time that you were an Admin, and I was coming back to the forums after a while and was suprised by the volitilityat that time. but as far as the present, from what I have seen it's no way near as bad as back then!

Quote - I see no reason for any bashing, people can vote with their purse for what they desire and they can be sure that the companies will listen.

I agree with SaintFox.

Quote - Can we please keep this to the original topic? This is NOT about announcing figures. This is NOT about arguing about programs. This is basically me ASKING YOU GUYS TO ACT LIKE ADULTS IN THE FORUM. If you can't do that, this is not the place for you.

Adults on this forum? Where? /kidding.

It happens every time there's a new Vicky.

I honestly don't understand the arguing either.

This is why I don't post very often. ;)

I don't understand all the arguing either. I like em both and you can make great art in both. If it weren't for studio I would not have poser b/c when I was trying to get into poser it didn't have a free trial...that was a lot of money for me to spend on something that I didn't know if I could use ;) I got poser 7 for 45 bucks around the time 8 rolled out on clearance at smithmicro.

I'm looking into poser 9 now for the new render stuff otherwise I would just stick with Poser 7 :)

I think you will like Poser 9, it's a big leap forward. Weightmapping and the far better interpretaion of SSS are worth the investment alone. Although you can't create Weightmaps in Poser 9 you can use them anyway when created by someone else.

I'm not always right, but my mistakes are more interesting!

And I am not strange, I am Limited Edition!

Are you ready for Antonia? Get her textures here:

The Home Of The Living Dolls

There isn't any reason to bash anyone. We should all respect one another's choices and move on--give up on the compulsive need to be right about everything and do your own thing and let others do theirs. This sort of thing is just like the people who come on the forums and try to insist 3D graphics aren't art or a 3D picture is only real art if you hand craft and model everything in your scene yourself. Everyone is entitled to their opinion--but stop trying to be a cyber bully and grow up. Some people perfer Poser, some Daz Studio, some Vue, some Carrara, some Maya, etc it isn't a matter or right or wrong--the software is just a tool used to create an image.

Quote - I betcha lots of folks who are Prime members here are also Platinum Club members there. Daz sells lots of good stuff for Poser. Rendo vendors are starting to sell products compatible with Genesis. A lot of us Poser users shop at both markets. It would be a poorer 3D world if either marketplace were to go away. I'm still mourning Aery Soul.

You realise they arent 'gone' right? And still making amazing stuff, most for poser still but some for genesis, they even mentioned an Alice for genesis but I dont know if its been released at all. Alice 5 is free for v4 though (just the body not the head)

OK, I'm here for one reason, and one reason only. I'm banned from the DAZ forum. I quite here quite some time ago; like years ago, back when stonemason was first working on his air car. This forum isn't at all freindly with my browser, and never has been.

Can I flip this and ask a simple question?

I downloaded the poser weightmapped Antonia, she isn't compatable with Studio or carrara, now should I go on a rip here? Gripe about Poser not suporting studio or carrara? Or should I excresis some common sence and realized there will be some interum between the introduction of a new technowledgy in one app, before it is compatable with others?

Me? I use the third app. So the posers and dazzers can bicker all they want. I can use poser content and DAZ DSF, so ;) But I can't use the new poser weight mapped figures any better then poser can use the DAZ weightmapped figure. I have had weightmapping in carrara for quite a while ;) Weight mapping is like rigging, generally not compatable from one app to the next. Personally I wasn't that impressed with genesis, weight mapping isn't new by any messure. I've been wondering what has taken DAZ and Poser so long to catch up.

I really think the reason people have been so upset Stanly is because many people, myself included feel that Daz has the best human figures available and that they perfer to use Poser to Daz Studio. Zygote, then Daz, started as Poser content providers--but now Daz is moving beyond just supplying content for Poser, but developing it's own line of 3D programs. I know, I myself, was concerned that in order to use the next generation of Daz humans I would only be able to create art with Daz Studio (or Carrara for that matter). I'm excited about Antonia, not because I use many female models in my artwork, but because he is a Victoria 5 alternative that I can use in Poser Pro and I don't much care for the native Poser people. Now I'm hoping for another 3rd party male figure, like Brad to come out.

I am using Daz Studio 4 Advanced because I want to be able to use Genesis and Poser may never support it; consequently I'm resigned to whatever directions the software companies go and to make the best of future developments.

As I've said before there is no reason a person can't use more than one human figure program, and there is no reason for people to be hostile because someone else's preference isn't the same as their own.

I have antonia, she used to be better looking. I'd put her in line with SP3 maybe, but not V5; or V4 for that matter.

What I am pointing out is this is all over; well at this point in time ;). Studio's new weight mapping system and the figure DAZ has made using it, that is isn't compatable with Poser.

But then Posers new weight mapping system isn't compatable with DS.

If you have the $$$ for Studio 4 pro, you could weight map V4. That weight mapped V4 wouldn't be poser compatable. Which is the same if you took V4 into poser and weight map her, she wouldn't be studio compatable.

That is the problem of weight maping, most CG apps have it, and are incompatable.

Now I used Genesis in the DS4 betas; I love to beta. I've used genesis in the carrara 8.5 beta. I have full use of genesis now, but I don't. I still use M4 and V4, hell I still use david and steph. I'm just not that impressed with genesis and don't understand why people are in such an all fired hury to get it in to Poser. As far as I'm concerned genesis is a money pit I can ill afford to use. I'm just not impressed enough with genesis to justify the price point DAZ has put on much of it. I mean I got the creature creator bundle for V4 for less then the V5 character. I also have issues with the way DAZ is marketing much of the genesis content.

To me Poser folk wanting Genesis in Poser, is like me wanting an eye strain stiff neck migrain. :lol: Folks, really, DAZ may like you to believe differently, but genesis is not the best thing since sliced bread. ;)

But this is about the poser VS studio war, which I think is ludicrous because Carrara has them both beat :P

It remains to be seen if Poser will successfully ever incorporate Genesis, but until then I'm contented with puttering around with it in Daz Studio 4 Advanced.

As far as I'm concerned it's not up to DAZ to get genesis in to poser, it's up to smithmicro. They are the ones responcable for developing Poser, not DAZ.

I don't think it is up to DAZ to dumb down genesis to get it in to poser, it is up to smith micro to update Poser to be compatable with Genesis.

When P8 came out with all the changes it wasn't up to smith micro to rewrite it so the figures were more compatable with studio, it was up to DAZ to update studio to accomiate.

If posers want to point a figer at whom is responcable for genesis not working in Poser, they need to do an about face.

Is it up to the folks at 3DS to rewrite their .3ds format so it opens in Poser? No.

So why is it up to DAZ to make genesis Poser compatable? Even trying is more then any other development company would do.

Quote - As far as I'm concerned it's not up to DAZ to get genesis in to poser, it's up to smithmicro. They are the ones responcable for developing Poser, not DAZ.

I don't think it is up to DAZ to dumb down genesis to get it in to poser, it is up to smith micro to update Poser to be compatable with Genesis.

When P8 came out with all the changes it wasn't up to smith micro to rewrite it so the figures were more compatable with studio, it was up to DAZ to update studio to accomiate.

If posers want to point a figer at whom is responcable for genesis not working in Poser, they need to do an about face.

Is it up to the folks at 3DS to rewrite their .3ds format so it opens in Poser? No.

So why is it up to DAZ to make genesis Poser compatable? Even trying is more then any other development company would do.

It is DAZ who wants to sell the addons for Genesis. SM does not get one penny of it

Quote - > Quote - As far as I'm concerned it's not up to DAZ to get genesis in to poser, it's up to smithmicro. They are the ones responcable for developing Poser, not DAZ.

I don't think it is up to DAZ to dumb down genesis to get it in to poser, it is up to smith micro to update Poser to be compatable with Genesis.

When P8 came out with all the changes it wasn't up to smith micro to rewrite it so the figures were more compatable with studio, it was up to DAZ to update studio to accomiate.

If posers want to point a figer at whom is responcable for genesis not working in Poser, they need to do an about face.

Is it up to the folks at 3DS to rewrite their .3ds format so it opens in Poser? No.

So why is it up to DAZ to make genesis Poser compatable? Even trying is more then any other development company would do.

It is DAZ who wants to sell the addons for Genesis. SM does not get one penny of it

DAZ and the DAZ PAs.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - As far as I'm concerned it's not up to DAZ to get genesis in to poser, it's up to smithmicro. They are the ones responcable for developing Poser, not DAZ.

I don't think it is up to DAZ to dumb down genesis to get it in to poser, it is up to smith micro to update Poser to be compatable with Genesis.

When P8 came out with all the changes it wasn't up to smith micro to rewrite it so the figures were more compatable with studio, it was up to DAZ to update studio to accomiate.

If posers want to point a figer at whom is responcable for genesis not working in Poser, they need to do an about face.

Is it up to the folks at 3DS to rewrite their .3ds format so it opens in Poser? No.

So why is it up to DAZ to make genesis Poser compatable? Even trying is more then any other development company would do.

It is DAZ who wants to sell the addons for Genesis. SM does not get one penny of it

DAZ and the DAZ PAs.

I see we're starting our morning with speculations. How many times have we been told about this, glitter?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - As far as I'm concerned it's not up to DAZ to get genesis in to poser, it's up to smithmicro. They are the ones responcable for developing Poser, not DAZ.

I don't think it is up to DAZ to dumb down genesis to get it in to poser, it is up to smith micro to update Poser to be compatable with Genesis.

When P8 came out with all the changes it wasn't up to smith micro to rewrite it so the figures were more compatable with studio, it was up to DAZ to update studio to accomiate.

If posers want to point a figer at whom is responcable for genesis not working in Poser, they need to do an about face.

Is it up to the folks at 3DS to rewrite their .3ds format so it opens in Poser? No.

So why is it up to DAZ to make genesis Poser compatable? Even trying is more then any other development company would do.

It is DAZ who wants to sell the addons for Genesis. SM does not get one penny of it

DAZ and the DAZ PAs.

And the Renderosity vendors already including Genesis versions. :)

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - As far as I'm concerned it's not up to DAZ to get genesis in to poser, it's up to smithmicro. They are the ones responcable for developing Poser, not DAZ.

I don't think it is up to DAZ to dumb down genesis to get it in to poser, it is up to smith micro to update Poser to be compatable with Genesis.

When P8 came out with all the changes it wasn't up to smith micro to rewrite it so the figures were more compatable with studio, it was up to DAZ to update studio to accomiate.

If posers want to point a figer at whom is responcable for genesis not working in Poser, they need to do an about face.

Is it up to the folks at 3DS to rewrite their .3ds format so it opens in Poser? No.

So why is it up to DAZ to make genesis Poser compatable? Even trying is more then any other development company would do.

It is DAZ who wants to sell the addons for Genesis. SM does not get one penny of it

DAZ and the DAZ PAs.

I see we're starting our morning with speculations. How many times have we been told about this, glitter?

ROFL, now there's something speculative about DAZ wishing to sell Genesis content to Poser users?

Oooookie dokey!

Your stalking is about to become a serious legal problem for you.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - As far as I'm concerned it's not up to DAZ to get genesis in to poser, it's up to smithmicro. They are the ones responcable for developing Poser, not DAZ.

I don't think it is up to DAZ to dumb down genesis to get it in to poser, it is up to smith micro to update Poser to be compatable with Genesis.

When P8 came out with all the changes it wasn't up to smith micro to rewrite it so the figures were more compatable with studio, it was up to DAZ to update studio to accomiate.

If posers want to point a figer at whom is responcable for genesis not working in Poser, they need to do an about face.

Is it up to the folks at 3DS to rewrite their .3ds format so it opens in Poser? No.

So why is it up to DAZ to make genesis Poser compatable? Even trying is more then any other development company would do.

It is DAZ who wants to sell the addons for Genesis. SM does not get one penny of it

DAZ and the DAZ PAs.

And the Renderosity vendors already including Genesis versions. :)

Good point!

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - As far as I'm concerned it's not up to DAZ to get genesis in to poser, it's up to smithmicro. They are the ones responcable for developing Poser, not DAZ.

I don't think it is up to DAZ to dumb down genesis to get it in to poser, it is up to smith micro to update Poser to be compatable with Genesis.

When P8 came out with all the changes it wasn't up to smith micro to rewrite it so the figures were more compatable with studio, it was up to DAZ to update studio to accomiate.

If posers want to point a figer at whom is responcable for genesis not working in Poser, they need to do an about face.

Is it up to the folks at 3DS to rewrite their .3ds format so it opens in Poser? No.

So why is it up to DAZ to make genesis Poser compatable? Even trying is more then any other development company would do.

It is DAZ who wants to sell the addons for Genesis. SM does not get one penny of it

DAZ and the DAZ PAs.

I see we're starting our morning with speculations. How many times have we been told about this, glitter?

ROFL, now there's something speculative about DAZ wishing to sell Genesis content to Poser users?

Oooookie dokey!

Your stalking is about to become a serious legal problem for you.

Umm, exactly how is responding to a forum thread stalking? That's funny. You remind me of someone...

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2840780

In case anyone's interested I'm running an unofficial survey regarding the current Poser/Studio content issues at Daz.

I've done my best to keep it unbiased. So far there are some interesting trends popping up.

Quote - It is DAZ who wants to sell the addons for Genesis. SM does not get one penny of it

Wouldn't you be one of the people buying those addons? If not why are you worried about Genesis not working in Poser?

Quote - > Quote - It is DAZ who wants to sell the addons for Genesis. SM does not get one penny of it

Wouldn't you be one of the people buying those addons? If not why are you worried about Genesis not working in Poser?

If DAZ wants to sell to me, it has to work in Poser. If it is not, I am not interested. Pushing me towards DS4 (as they clearly do by repeatingly stating "Why don't you try it out") to buy that content irritates the hell out of me.

I was skeptical at first, but I've enjoyed using the Genesis figure since I bit the bullet and got some "shpaes" for it. I was resistant at first, but like many people with V5, I realized that if I was going to be able to get M5 when he is released next year, I'd have to be running DS of some flavor on my computer. I can really see both sides of this issue. If I knew of the definite release of a decent looking Michael alternative by some 3rd party content provider, I probably would have held out longer. I was thrilled when Antonia came out, I just don't see any new male figure on the horizon that will be equivalent to her.

I get tired of using the same figures all the time, like other people I get excited by fresh, new content. I've hardly touched Poser since I got Daz Studio 4 Advanced; but I don't intend to give up on it.

Here's hoping that Smith Micro starts investing on creating new, better looking people (wieght mapped of course), and that they start supporting add-ons for them in the same way the G2 series had support. For a while there the G2 people had new outfits coming out on a regular basis in different themes from historical to contemporary.

Yeah for people that do male renders, it's tough to find a good equivalent for M5. Even when I did stuff for M4, I wanted to do a different body shape to fit the figure but couldn't because I'd have to learn magnets or find someone to make an outfit for it. At least now with Genesis I can change not only the face, but the body and not worry about it... and also scale it shorter.

And with all the talk about female figures and scant comments about the male one and whether anyone going to even make stuff for it, there's not many alternatives to M5. But at least people that do male renders, there's tons of stuff you can do to vary your figure with genesis than what you can do before.

I'm not sure if I'm gonna like M5's default body type, but there will be a lot of flexibility for other types. I love the Freak 4, but didn't do much with him because of conforming clothes issue with him in Poser; even with the new "copy morph" and "copy scales" options although the clothes fit better, when I pose the figure there are problems. most of these can be repaired in post work, but it's nicer to have things work right out of the box. One thing I can say about Daz Studio is that conforming clothing for their figures work well in it.

I don't get the whole magnetize clothing concept either, perhaps I'll find a good tutorial that will help me to master it--but it seems very complicated. I don't like to have to fuss over clothing, I want to spend more time composing my scene.

I'd love to use Behemoth 2 as a Freak alternative in Poser, but he's another one of those unsupported 3rd party figures--only 2 texture maps (unless you want to make a monster--there are a couple monster kits) for him and very little in the way of clothing. I bought the Cross Dresser module so I could adapt clothes to him--but did I mention I don't like to fuss with clothes.

I guess there is little hope we'll ever get the most recently updated version of Apollo Maxiumus is there?

Yeah I can't comment on M5, but the thing I do like about the whole thing is that if you don't like it... fix it until you do. Genesis and the evolution morphs doesn't give you the customization for adjusting glutes like in M4, so I've generally popped it into Zbrush and customized it. The Ryuu figure I just released all has those customizations and I also customized the hips, back, ribcage and feet too, and it still fits all the clothing. I don't like to fuss with clothes either, and even if it's a little poke through, I'll turn on the collision and smoothing in DS4 and that'll fix it. I think it even works on M4 items too, which may come in handy for my next project.

Hmm, I need to check the exporation date on M4 and V4. Apparently they have went bad in my runtime and are nolonger usable.

At one time I had all the 3rd party free figures. Decoco was the only one I used regular; low polly easy to work with figure. I've got all the olde Sixus figures, but don't use them. I don't use anything of mil 2 quality most of the time.

Most 3rd party figures, regardless of quality, faid away do to lack of suport. And there have been some very well done ones that just never got suported. But why?

This thread is daz vs the world, which doesn't seem too far from the truth. Seems DAZ does as DAZ will, with little regard to customers wants, requests or disaticfation. It's ether the DAZ way or the highway. The only thing that will change DAZ's mind about anything is a drastic drop in sales.

And the way it looks DAZ is about to see there sales do a Titanic.

On the other hand Stanley, you can't please everyone. No matter what Daz or Smith Micro does, someone will be unhappy with whatever changes they've made.

No M4 and V4 don't have expiration dates; they do have a boredom factor though. I have many gigabytes of content, and yet I still keep buying more--why? I like to have something new and different. A new figure or program can bring fun back into this hobby when one is feeling burnt out. Have I done every creative things I could do with M4? No, of course not, but it's exciting for instance to have this new Swole body type, which is freakier than the Freak, and get some looks I'd not been able achieve before.

Is this hoby a money pit? Of course, but it's a hell of a lot better than collecting commemorative shot glasses. . .

I'm not saying this hobby isn't a money pit, what hobby isn't? And I have had quite a few. What I am saying is genesis content is twice to three times the cost of equivelent content for the mil 4 figures. V5 by her self cost as much as Aiko, the girl, and Steph for V4, combined.

And why is that? Simple economics, the price rise was to make up for the projected loss of sales do to Poser users not being able to use Genesis. Yes that is an infurace, but I dought I'm wrong.

Just wait, it get s worse.

Actually I find 3D content is much more affordable than it once was--I started out with Poser 4. I really don't find the new content to be more expensive if one is in the Platinum Club one gets a good discount--one needs to get the stuff while it's one sale, but even if one misses the first sale, it almost always goes on sale again at some point or another. I don't think the Base V5 Bundle was any more expensive than V4 Bundle when she came out; in fact if people wait a while a lot of time you can get stuff heavily discounted or free if one does not have to have the most recent figure when it's released.

Daz has had various free promotional bundles, and they have also given a lot of content away with books and Magazines. I got the Basic (inclduing textures, morphs, clothes and hair) V4 bundle, Hiro bundle, and Aiko bundle all for free--I've not spent a penny on V4, not even for clothes.

Prices had gone down a few years ago, now they are going up rapidly. The V4 pro bundle was $49 and the V5 pro bundle was $75. This was with platinum discount. The V4 bundle price included V4 base for which we got a refund/coupon later

I understand that prices go up in time, but they are definitely not more affordable

Well looking at all the stuff you get in those bundles, and if you add it up separately I still don't think it's too expensive. As I said before, if people are willing to wait a while I'm sure they will get the stuff at a lower price in the future (if not for free). Hell, I paid $50 for Michael 2 alone, that was without texture maps, clothing, hair or anything.

At any rate, the more sources for 3D content there are, the more competition, the more prices will be reasonable. It used to be that Daz was the only place one could get quality items, but that's not true anymore. I have gotten some really nice stuff here and at Runtime DNA. If one comparison shops one can get a lot of good things at a low price.

Quote - Well looking at all the stuff you get in those bundles, and if you add it up separately I still don't think it's too expensive. As I said before, if people are willing to wait a while I'm sure they will get the stuff at a lower price in the future (if not for free). Hell, I paid $50 for Michael 2 alone, that was without texture maps, clothing, hair or anything.

At any rate, the more sources for 3D content there are, the more competition, the more prices will be reasonable. It used to be that Daz was the only place one could get quality items, but that's not true anymore. I have gotten some really nice stuff here and at Runtime DNA. If one comparison shops one can get a lot of good things at a low price.

You said that prices were now more affordable - that is simply not true. Whether the prices are reasonable is a different matter and may be different for everyone. I think some products are priced too high and for some I would pay a higher price.

It is absolutely NOT true either that DAZ was the only party in town with quality content. Renderosity and RDNA and other places have had quality content for years and usually for a lower price. Some of the content may be of lower quality, but that is true for DAZ content as well.

I can just speak from my personal experience; it's my opinion in the early days of Poser that Zygote, then Daz had the best quality stuff. This is not to say that there were some content creators who did an excellent job--but I will say that I'd had a lot of trouble with 3rd party stuff not having the right poser library structure, or paths, or misnamed files.

At any rate, it all boils down to if a person feels that Daz's prices are too high, don't buy Daz content. If you don't want to invest in Genesis content just walk away. I really don't know what the argument is. Like the stuff use it, buy it, enjoy it. Think it costs too much or that it should be Poser compatible, don't buy it. I tried to resist Genesis at first, but then I tried it and I like it--but I still llike Poser too.

There isn't any right or wrong answer; everyone just do your own thing and be contented.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - As far as I'm concerned it's not up to DAZ to get genesis in to poser, it's up to smithmicro. They are the ones responcable for developing Poser, not DAZ.

I don't think it is up to DAZ to dumb down genesis to get it in to poser, it is up to smith micro to update Poser to be compatable with Genesis.

When P8 came out with all the changes it wasn't up to smith micro to rewrite it so the figures were more compatable with studio, it was up to DAZ to update studio to accomiate.

If posers want to point a figer at whom is responcable for genesis not working in Poser, they need to do an about face.

Is it up to the folks at 3DS to rewrite their .3ds format so it opens in Poser? No.

So why is it up to DAZ to make genesis Poser compatable? Even trying is more then any other development company would do.

It is DAZ who wants to sell the addons for Genesis. SM does not get one penny of it

DAZ and the DAZ PAs.

I see we're starting our morning with speculations. How many times have we been told about this, glitter?

Who is "we"?

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - As far as I'm concerned it's not up to DAZ to get genesis in to poser, it's up to smithmicro. They are the ones responcable for developing Poser, not DAZ.

I don't think it is up to DAZ to dumb down genesis to get it in to poser, it is up to smith micro to update Poser to be compatable with Genesis.

When P8 came out with all the changes it wasn't up to smith micro to rewrite it so the figures were more compatable with studio, it was up to DAZ to update studio to accomiate.

If posers want to point a figer at whom is responcable for genesis not working in Poser, they need to do an about face.

Is it up to the folks at 3DS to rewrite their .3ds format so it opens in Poser? No.

So why is it up to DAZ to make genesis Poser compatable? Even trying is more then any other development company would do.

It is DAZ who wants to sell the addons for Genesis. SM does not get one penny of it

DAZ and the DAZ PAs.

I see we're starting our morning with speculations. How many times have we been told about this, glitter?

Who is "we"?

Yeah, the word should have been "you".

Thanks for catching that, but we've kinda moved on to other things to be rehashing from yesterday.

One wishes that Daz would make figures for the Poser community but life goes on and in the long run we will see how it turn out. In the meantime we will just deal with hand we have been dealt.

I agree outa, and even as it is, there is nothing that says that some of their content won't be traditional Poser figures, like toon characters and animals. I don't think any of us know how things are going to go in the future--but we'll find out in time.

Quote - I agree outa, and even as it is, there is nothing that says that some of their content won't be traditional Poser figures, like toon characters and animals. I don't think any of us know how things are going to go in the future--but we'll find out in time.

DAZ has stated they will not do any development anymore for the V4 figure. If they release other standalone figures those will be for DS4 which - as they have said repeatedly - are not compatible with Poser.

DAZ PA's can choose (for now) whatever they want to develop for, which includes V4 and other figures

Seems like a clear path to me

Is this the proper thread to ask where the "Daz wants to Chat" show disappeared to?

Quote - Is this the proper thread to ask where the "Daz wants to Chat" show disappeared to?

Scroll down. All they did was unsticky it.

Ya that seems the best way of burying it without actually killing it.

Don't see any reason this one shouldn't join it.

I said, I see no reason this one shouldn't join it.

Quote - One wishes that Daz would make figures for the Poser community but life goes on and in the long run we will see how it turn out. In the meantime we will just deal with hand we have been dealt.

Totally agree. If those guys at Daz did not wish to make a Poser compatible figure at all then please do not waste my time sending out their manager over here to explain their excuses in an official tone, I've seen this trick before and it will not work.

I will believe it when I see the actual product out.

Evolve or go extinct.

Technolagy moves forward, move with it or be left behind.

DAZ is trying to get content caught up with the rest of the CG world. Weight maps have been around for years, it's about time a content sales company stepped up to great it.

In order to use that weight mapping DAZ had to design Studio 4 around it. Daz makes figures for studio, up to studio 4 DAZ was still using the older Poser format, so DAZ wasn't directly making figures for Poser, the figures where made in the old Poser format so of coarse they worked in Poser. In order for DAZ to make a modern figure DAZ had no choice but to abandon the old Poser format.

Do you see me Pn a B because Poser weight mapping doens't work in studio or carrara? And why is that? Because poser doesn't have a figure out I would want to use in studio or carrara, if I could.

Everyone is griping because Genesis can't be used directly or easily in Poser, I don't see any one griping about the new Poser weightmapping not working in anything but Poser.

Everyone is griping because Genesis can't be used directly or easily in Poser, I don't see any one griping about the new Poser weightmapping not working in anything but Poser.

look harder. I've seen it a few times. thing is, until now, many did'nt want to bother with anything non-daz, so all other figures have been ignored.

*now tho...

People dom't like change, but for growth things have to change though. I was skeptical, but I really like Genesis now, and I think people should at least try it before knocking it. A system where any clothing created for the genesis figure, and any texture can be used without annoying conversions, is a boon to me. Yes, I wish it worked with Poser, but it doesn't so far. I will have to be happy with stuff specifically created for use inPoser, and hopefully some nice new male figures will be developed for Poser in the future. There are nice new females, and female figure fans should be happy in that.

Quote - I think people should at least try it before knocking it.

Waiting patiently to do so when it doesn't irequire DS4 and a clunky exporter that results in a half-functional figure in Poser. In the meantime, we've got Antonia, Anastasia, Alice 5, and almost infinite incarnations of V4 that begin with "A" and other letters, too.

DAZ and Smith Micro can take their time getting together on Genesis, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't mind it being a more fleshed-out (pun intended) product with the bugs resolved by the time it works natively in Poser.

If it never does, well, I've got all those lovely nonGenesis "A" girls and the rest of the alphabet to explore. :)

This may set some people off, but I have antonia, and most all her freebies, I'm not impressed. She's Mil3 calaber at best. I mean no insult to her creator, I've rigged a few figures and it is a task to be prode of once completed. But I don't see why the Poserverce is all gaga over her.

And yes, I agree there is still plenty of life in the Mil4 figures. Don't know why so many think they are obsolete. Genesis is a new figure, a new DAZ figure, meaning it was released with bugs, and I doubt DAZ will have them fixed soon. But genesis is complex enough to be considered a DAZ app, meaning hold off for about 6 months for DAZ to get it fixed lol

I'm still at a loss though trying to figure out why people are upset about DAZ weightmapping not working in poser, when no weightmapping from any app is transferable to another app. Never has been.

And I still maintain it isn't up to DAZ to reset Poser so it is compatable with Studio weight maps. You all need to go at sM about this, not DAZ. It's not up to the development company to make their format work in your app, never has been. It's always been up to the development company for the app you are importing to, to make it compatable with the format you are importing.

Has everyone forgotten the hoopla that went on when the mil4 figures were released? Has everyone forgotten that at that time if you wanted to install the mil4 figures to a runtime there had to be a Poser .exe in the folder you were installing to? How could a figure have been more Posercentric?

Now I'm going to turn this around. The title to this thread is DAZ vs the world, I think that is a misstatement. It's more like Poser vs the world, because it seems Posers expect the world to bend to their whims. It's not DAZ wanting Poser to change to be compatable with genesis, it's the poserverce expecting DAZ to change genesis to be Poser compatable. It seems the Poserverce expects all the rules of thumb for most every other CG app to be bent and broken just for them.

So I reiterate, it isn't DAZ VS the world, it's poser VS the world.

erm Stanley

have you READ the very very first post in this thread?

you know the one thats basically saying *stop fighting about daz vs poser / poser vs daz

totally different from what you think it's saying?

Quote - Now I'm going to turn this around. The title to this thread is DAZ vs the world, I think that is a misstatement. It's more like Poser vs the world, because it seems Posers expect the world to bend to their whims. It's not DAZ wanting Poser to change to be compatable with genesis, it's the poserverce expecting DAZ to change genesis to be Poser compatable. It seems the Poserverce expects all the rules of thumb for most every other CG app to be bent and broken just for them.

Since you are here in the POSER forum you should know that it IS poser centric by definition. If a company wants to sell items to POSER users it should better be WORKING in Poser. If they do NOT want to sell these to POSER users, they should not come in and ask POSER users to buy that stuff

Manley...you DARE not compare Antonia to the gods HERE?! Boil him in oil! ;)

I thought that post was well-written and honest, and was not really a "Poser vs DAZ" comment like so many in the "DAZ wants to talk thread". At least it wasn't another complaint or unfounded speculation.

SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Then don't buy it. Genesis was never marketed to Poser, it was poser users kicking up a fuss at DAZ about genesis not working in Poser that started this. Genesis was nether designed nor built to work in Poser, Studio was rewritten to make use of the triax weightmapping system. If sM doesn't want to adopted the triax system, how is that DAZ's fault?

How could DAZ possably be marketing Genesis to Posers when the only way to get Genesis is to download and install DS4. On every morph, character, pose ect for genesis it has a compatability chart, poser isn't listed. The way it looks to me you all are marketing Genesis to yourselves.

As far as I'm concered it's the same as me kicking up a fuss because .vob wont open in carrara, so Vue needs to change it's out put so I can open .vob in carrara. How is this any different?

I didn't say anything about Poser VS DAZ. I said Poser VS the world. And I do believe I pointed this out. No other apps weight mapping is compatable in any other apps, it's ludicres to expect Studios weight mapping to work in Poser. And that is all genesis is about, weight mapping. That is the only thing that makes genesis any diferent then the mil4 figures.

In my opinion people believeing Genesis was marketed to poser users is a falicy. They beleve that since DAZ figures to date have been Poser compatable that any figures DAZ makes are suposed to be. This is a delusion of their own creation.

And before you start on me being a Dazzer, any one that knows me will tell you quite the contrary. I am not a DAZ suported. I was one of the biggests DAZ detractors on the forum; till I was banned. Guess what folks? Genesis doesn't work in Carrara 8.1, a DAZ app. Genesis doesn't work in Bryce, a DAZ app. So why on earth do you think it's suposed to work in Poser?

ah, so you did'nt read the post then.

We have had numerous threads here and at DAZ where DAZ officials are saying that they are NOT abandoning Poser. Since they have not produced anything besides genesis only products since it was released and they have repeatedly stated that they were working towards a solution for Poser it is clear to me that they are marketing - in advance - their products towards Poser. What other reason is to come in and create "We want to talk to you" and "clear up misunderstandings" threads.

wow, then where are all these mysterious nongenesis items coming from at the DAZ store? I'd link you to the 8 new nongenesis items in the store at DAZ but I can't do that here. I could link you to 3 new sets of clothes for V4. I could limk you to new sets that are for genesis and the mil4 figures. Do you perhaps have your DAZ store search set to genesis only or something?

It's just posts like wimvdb which are presenting misinformation, I feel a need to respond to. No feelings involved, just presenting the facts, not an opinion.

And the reason DAZ came here is simple, and I said as much in that thread. The DAZ forum is just another cog in the DAZ marketing machine. Due to censorship that thread never could have happened on the DAZ forum. Several subjects that were brought up are taboo on the DAZ forum and would have gotten an immeadiate deletion.

Just trying to educate people.

ig·no·rant/ˈignərənt/

Adjective: 1. Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy".

I was one of the most paraniod conspericy theroists on the DAZ forum, and I don't hold a candle to some of the folks here. ;)

Quote - This may set some people off, but I have antonia, and most all her freebies, I'm not impressed. She's Mil3 calaber at best. I mean no insult to her creator, I've rigged a few figures and it is a task to be prode of once completed. But I don't see why the Poserverce is all gaga over her.

They can speak for themselves, but my understanding is that Antonia was created by folks looking for life beyond V4 and not finding it satisfactorily in the free figures that SM includes with Poser.

They made her from scratch and they offered her to the world for free, so I'm not complaining. V4 isn't much to look at in her default form, but see what people have done with her. I have seen some nice treatments of the default Antonia, too. The best ugly-duckling-to-swan transformation I have ever seen is what Blackhearted did to Alyson 2 to create Anastasia. That could happen to Antonia but the result won't be free, I'm guessing!

Apparently you have a problem reading

I said PRODUCED by DAZ - not acquired by DAZ

All of the stuff for V4 comes from PA's

I don't think DAZ produces clothing, accessories, etc., even if it has their name on it. They job it out.

Quote - In order to use that weight mapping DAZ had to design Studio 4 around it. Daz makes figures for studio, up to studio 4 DAZ was still using the older Poser format, so DAZ wasn't directly making figures for Poser, the figures where made in the old Poser format so of coarse they worked in Poser. In order for DAZ to make a modern figure DAZ had no choice but to abandon the old Poser format.

All well and good, Mr. Stanley, but you should probably review your history...

It was the Poser users who built up the DAZ company to what it is today.

It was the Poser users who bought their products.

It was the Poser users who followed DAZ to the end of the earth.

And now, DAZ says "kiss off."

OK, no problem.

I'd guess most of the Poser users feel exactly like I do - we'll kiss off. But, don't come over here whining and crying because I'm not spending money over at DAZ.

It all boils down to "dancing with the one that brung ya."

My dance card is full. Too bad, DAZ.

All the innovation from DAZ goes towards DS4 and genesis - such as figures, textures, hair and tools. Understandable, but not something I can use or shows a commitment to Poser

Well I guess all those studio users just don't do anything to suport DAZ, or studio. Guess all those studio plugins and studio mats are just in the store for show.

PA's produce, oh what, 96% of the content in the DAZ store, so your complaint is 4% of the content being produced is for genesis? Really doesn't help your argument much does it.

That's brokered not aquired.

I downloaded the free poser debut to check it out. No tools I need so I don't need the app. Thought I'd at least get some usable content out of it. But it seemed 90% was the same stuff I had in P6. Going through and checking everything I found Simmon and Sydny. Nice looking figures so I thought I'd try them in carrara, after all carrara is poser compatable. Gave them a try and they looked good till I lowered the arms and their chests caved in. Well that's not right, Smith micro needs to fix those figures so I can use them in carrara.

And why did everyone that used poser buy DAZ content? Because no one else made any, least of all whom ever owned Poser at the time.

But hey, all of this will be moot if DAZ does the virtual store thing. Then you wont have any one to complain about. Personally I think you all need to be more worried about the virtual store thing then genesis. genesis is one figure, the virtual store will effect all DAZ content. Right now you can't use genesis, what are you going to do when you can't download or install anything from DAZ?

Quote - Well I guess all those studio users just don't do anything to suport DAZ, or studio. Guess all those studio plugins and studio mats are just in the store for show.

PA's produce, oh what, 96% of the content in the DAZ store, so your complaint is 4% of the content being produced is for genesis? Really doesn't help your argument much does it.

That's brokered not aquired.

I downloaded the free poser debut to check it out. No tools I need so I don't need the app. Thought I'd at least get some usable content out of it. But it seemed 90% was the same stuff I had in P6. Going through and checking everything I found Simmon and Sydny. Nice looking figures so I thought I'd try them in carrara, after all carrara is poser compatable. Gave them a try and they looked good till I lowered the arms and their chests caved in. Well that's not right, Smith micro needs to fix those figures so I can use them in carrara.

And why did everyone that used poser buy DAZ content? Because no one else made any, least of all whom ever owned Poser at the time.

But hey, all of this will be moot if DAZ does the virtual store thing. Then you wont have any one to complain about. Personally I think you all need to be more worried about the virtual store thing then genesis. genesis is one figure, the virtual store will effect all DAZ content. Right now you can't use genesis, what are you going to do when you can't download or install anything from DAZ?

All I have to say in response is.........if all those Studio and Carrara users are buying so much product, what's DAZ_Rand doing over here?

Yeah, answers itself.

And you're defining "ignorant?"

Where was I complaining? I was just making an observation as a reaction to your rant of Poser users being Poser centric in a Poser forum

Here another observation for you: Most of the new content which is now sold at the DAZ store is for Genesis. I think this is the first month were this is the case. Just go to the DAZ store and select genesis and you get 46 new products, select V4 and you get 24.

And the virtual store thing is for now just a speculation. That would mean a defiinite no to all non DS4 users

Quote - Apparently you have a problem reading I said PRODUCED by DAZ - not acquired by DAZ

All of the stuff for V4 comes from PA's

DAZ produces very little "content"-- almost none, in fact. That's been the case for many years now.

Of course DAZ's isn't making any new items for V4, such a new figure shape FBM-- after all, DAZ stopped making anything new for V3 well before V4 came out, so it's hardly odd that DAZ should stop making new things for V4 now that V5 is out.

DAZ is still accepting products for V4 and M4, and quite a few have come out since the release of Genesis. And don't forget all the non-figure stuff like scenery, props, buildigs, etc., which works in both programs. DAZ has even been accepting a number of dynamic clothing items for Poser. It not as though DAZ slammed the door and said, "No more Poser stuff!!"

"All I have to say in response is.........if all those Studio and Carrara users are buying so much product, what's DAZ_Rand doing over here?

Yeah, answers itself."

DAZ tries to listen to you, you bitch. DAZ goes their own way, you bitch. DAZ says they're working on fixing issues that are affecting you, you bitch. **DAZ can do no right by you. ** Manley is certainly no DAZ supporter, but everything he's saying is true and you guys just don't like hearing it.

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Quote - "All I have to say in response is.........if all those Studio and Carrara users are buying so much product, what's DAZ_Rand doing over here?
Yeah, answers itself."

DAZ tries to listen to you, you bitch. DAZ goes their own way, you bitch. DAZ says they're working on fixing issues that are affecting you, you bitch. **DAZ can do no right by you. ** Manley is certainly no DAZ supporter, but everything he's saying is true and you guys just don't like hearing it.

Wow. Just. Wow.

Makes me even more glad I don't do business with DAZ any longer.

If we don't behave they will lock the thread. I really think the whole point is to live and let live, not to be angry. There are things the way we want them to be, then things the way they are. All of this discussion is highly subjective, I understand both points of view, we just need to respect one another's choices and opinions. Right now I think we're just beating a dead horse. Like the new Daz content, buy it, don't like it support Poser only vendors and content developers. The best way to insure new Content created for Poser is to support those people producing it and buy it. If there is more demand, there will be more content produced, not enough demand and your choices will be more limited.

What Glitter, what, what was wrong with what I said? It's true, you complain about everything DAZ does and in every place you can. You're not interested in anything Rand has to say, you weren't even interested in anything I had to say when I made the attempt to politely engage you and your friends at that other site. You want an apology from DAZ, I know.

And I'm not here as an official representative of DAZ like Rand, I'm here as a Renderosity member who's had it with this crap and is simply stating my opinion, like you do. DAZ supporters ARE allowed to post here too you know.

SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Quote - What Glitter, what, what was wrong with what I said? It's true, you complain about everything DAZ does and in every place you can. You're not interested in anything Rand has to say, you weren't even interested in anything I had to say when I made the attempt to politely engage you and your friends at that other site. You want an apology from DAZ, I know.

And I'm not here as an official representative of DAZ like Rand, I'm here as a Renderosity member who's had it with this crap and is simply stating my opinion, like you do. DAZ supporters ARE allowed to post here too you know.

SnowS

Yep, you're right SnowSultan. You and some of the other DAZ PAs have made every effort to ensure folks want nothing to do with DAZ or it's PAs.

All. Over. The. Internet.

But, don't blame me for your behavior.

It's abundantly clear what you and the other PAs think of their potential customers.

Quote - If we don't behave they will lock the thread. I really think the whole point is to live and let live, not to be angry. There are things the way we want them to be, then things the way they are. All of this discussion is highly subjective, I understand both points of view, we just need to respect one another's choices and opinions. Right now I think we're just beating a dead horse. Like the new Daz content, buy it, don't like it support Poser only vendors and content developers. The best way to insure new Content created for Poser is to support those people producing it and buy it. If there is more demand, there will be more content produced, not enough demand and your choices will be more limited.

That's the goal of the DAZ Crew, Tom.....to get all the threads locked. They did their dirty work and have now set out to shut everyone up.

I'm in subscribing from this thread, I don't like the fighting. I love Poser and I love Daz content and I don't see a conflict in that. The people at Daz have been very kind to me. Good luck in resolving your conflicts. I know it sounds cliched but I just wish everyone could get along.

"You and some of the other DAZ PAs have made every effort to ensure folks want nothing to do with DAZ or it's PAs."

No, that's been your job ever since you were banned. Badmouthing DAZ at every opportunity, then when a PA or someone who supports DAZ disagrees, you get to play the victim. Over and over and over and I have had enough.

I don't want this thread locked, I want reasonable discussions without you and those like you coming in and bashing DAZ, spouting wild speculation about the company, their plans, and their people. The only reason I and any other PA say what we do is because everything you guys say seems to go unchecked. Anti-DAZ should NOT be the only opinion being voiced here.

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Quote - "You and some of the other DAZ PAs have made every effort to ensure folks want nothing to do with DAZ or it's PAs."

No, that's been your job ever since you were banned. Badmouthing DAZ at every opportunity, then when a PA or someone who supports DAZ disagrees, you get to play the victim. Over and over and over and I have had enough.

I don't want this thread locked, I want reasonable discussions without you and those like you coming in and bashing DAZ, spouting wild speculation about the company, their plans, and their people. The only reason I and any other PA say what we do is because everything you guys say seems to go unchecked. Anti-DAZ should NOT be the only opinion being voiced here.

There's only one problem with your wild theory. I've never been banned anywhere.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

You have your antagonists mixed up.

Interesting that I don't see you post anymore on two forums that you used to quite often then, huh. That really doesn't matter, everything else I said still applies.

Let's try something, I won't post in here again if you don't. Deal?

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Quote - Interesting that I don't see you post anymore on two forums that you used to quite often then, huh. That really doesn't matter, everything else I said still applies.

Let's try something, I won't post in here again if you don't. Deal?

You mean this thread? Sure! Deal!

Difference is SnowSultan isn't getting banned here for speaking their mind

Quote - Here another observation for you: Most of the new content which is now sold at the DAZ store is for Genesis. I think this is the first month were this is the case.

Have you actually counted the items, rather than relying on the store search, which is, to put it kindly, rather lame? In another thread, someone said that "most" of the Christmas freebies were for Genesis-- without having bothered to count them first. As it turned out, that was dead-wrong.

Even if it's true that "most" of the new items are for Genesis, that's hardly surprising. Whenever a new figure comes out, there's a period where a large portion (I won't say "most" because I haven't actually counted) of the new figure-related products are for that new figure. It happened when V3 came out, it happened when M3 came out, it happened when the Girl came out, it happened when V4 came out, and so on.

Yes, it's true that DAZ originated as a company supplying content for Poser, and it's also true that, for the first several years of DAZ's existence, Poser users accounted for the preponderant bulk of DAZ's revenue, and they still account for a very large part of DAZ's revenue, perhaps the larger part of it. No one disputes that, and no one with a brain would want DAZ to stop providing Poser content.

However, as has been said many times now, DAZ can't make Genesis work in Poser because Poser doesn't have the same rigging/weight-mapping/subdivision system that Genesis uses. Those who want Genesis to work in Poser should be talking to Smith Micro, not DAZ, because Smith Micro is the only one who can decide whether or not to adopt the technology that would enable Genesis to work in Poser.

One might ask, why should Smith Micro do that? What's in it for Smith Micro? Well, simply this: Poser is only as useful as the content available for it. How popular would Poser be today if Zygote and DAZ had never existed-- if the whole line of DAZ figures had never existed-- if all the content for those figures had never existed?

There's no way to know, but I suspect that if it hadn't been for DAZ and its very popular figures and all their add-on products, there would be far fewer people using Poser than there are. So-- while it's true that DAZ owes its very existence to Poser and Poser users, it's also true that Poser owes much of its popularity (such as it is) to DAZ and its figures and their add-ons. Revising Poser to include the DS4/Genesis technology might not benefit Smith Micro "directly," in terms of receiving revenues from content, but it would certainly benefit SM in terms of making Poser more versatile and appealing to end users.

Glitterati3D I've already explained 3 times why that thread from DAZ_Rand was here. If you haven't gotten it by now I can asume you never will.

"bashing DAZ, spouting wild speculation about the company, their plans,"

That's my job damit, leave it be. :lol:

The argument isn't DAZ vs Poser. It's the precept that DAZ doesn't suport poser.

As has been DAZ's habit right along, once a new figure is released any development DAS does for figures is for that series. So it's no surprise DAZ has done it for Genesis.

DAZ has not stopped carrying Mil4, or mil3 content. It's still all there, and the way people talk they certianly can't have it all. DAZ is still excepting submisions from PA's for Mil4 figures. So DAZ still sells Poser compatable content; which is what I use.

I'm not a big suporter of Genesis even though I can use it. I just can't afford to use it. Of the last 20 items I have gotten from DAZ, 1 was for genesis; and who could resist that free gorilla :) . But at the cost of characters and morphs for genesis, I just have to opt out. I saw a new character at the store, this character was dependent on you having bought V5, so the total cost of the charater was $42. Ya, right. For that price I'd check out this anistasia charater. But then I am very pesimistic that it would work in Carrara, and if it didn't who would I complain at?

Glitterati3D wrote:

Quote - It was the Poser users who built up the DAZ company to what it is today.

And DAZ Studio users. It was DAZ figures that helped build up the Poser community to what it is today.

Glitterati3D wrote:

Quote - It was the Poser users who bought their products.

And DAZ Studio users.

Glitterati3D wrote:

Quote - It was the Poser users who followed DAZ to the end of the earth.

And DAZ Studio users.

Glitterati3D wrote:

Quote - And now, DAZ says "kiss off."

DAZ hasn't told anyone to "kiss off."

Glitterati3D wrote:

Quote - I'd guess most of the Poser users feel exactly like I do

I'd guess that's completely untrue.

Glitterati3D wrote:

Quote - But, don't come over here whining and crying because I'm not spending money over at DAZ.

Trust me, no one is whining and crying because you aren't spending money at DAZ.

Glitterati3D wrote:

Quote - All I have to say in response is.........if all those Studio and Carrara users are buying so much product, what's DAZ_Rand doing over here?

To correct misinformation people like you are spreading, and to answer questions Poser users have been asking for months.

Since you have publically stated that you hate DAZ, anything you say should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Coldrake

You lose your own argument once you mention that one person arguing has some personal interest of their own... because you too stop arguing your point.

Anyways...

DAZ is a business... DAZ_Rand said as much...

Their forums are a branch of their business.

We buyers are disappointed.

That's it. That's the whole of it. We are disappointed in the business decisions DAZ has made.

It has no bearing on folks who love DAZ.

AND to use Genesis in Poser... you have to buy Poser 9 or Pro 2012

As a buyer it has become more than just a disappointment... it's really a NO DEAL...

it's a double insult.

And the attitude with installers after 8 years.

Fine. DAZ doesn't want my money. Fine. It sucks... but... fine.

@Blondie

I won't argue about the actual numbers, since I have not counted them either. And yes, the DAZ store filters are not very reliable. It is a fact though that I spent far less than I used to do. This month less than 25% compared to dec last year. Why - because there is less available for the generation 4 figures. I do not buy everything which is available, I decide on originality, whether I can use it, price and its flexibility (movement morphs). This time there were far fewer (V4) products to choose from compared to last year and most of what was left did not meet the criteria - so I spent less (almost all of it on props)

I did buy the surgeon outfit in the hope that the cr2 converter would enable me to get it in to Poser (that one fit my criteria except for not being able to use it as is), but no luck so far

My main disappointment comes from the perception I have that the CR2 converter is of a low priority to DAZ. I base that perception on the lack of responsiveness from DAZ after having done several forum posts, a bug report and PM's.

SM has implemented a number of features requested by DAZ to support genesis and this does not seem to work - maybe it does the things it is supposed to do, but noone at DAZ is telling or testing it

I think the communication aspect and (maybe) the lack of focus and/or priority in development is the main problem I have. At least that is how I feel it

***Ok, folks, this needs to stop. ***

We're all grown ups. But, whenever DAZ is brought up, this place turns into a bar on Football night with two big groups rooting for each team. I get that there are long-term customers who are exclusive Poser users who are upset with the direction things seem to be moving. You have every right to feel your feelings. However, we here at Renderosity can't do anything about it. Getting over upset about it won't do anything but make other people upset at you, and...well, then we're off topic and attacking someone.

. ***

And on the other side...we also get that there are people who see the directions DAZ is going in as necessary, growth creating, and the best way forward. You have every right to have that opinion. And we shouldn't be attempting to force people into changing that opinion simply because this is the Poser forum.

And the attacks in BOTH directions have GOT TO STOP. They are no longer [ ] this close to being personal attacks. THEY ARE PERSONAL ATTACKS. And they need to stop. NOW. Because we WILL be handing out warnings from now on. If a post makes you angry, get away from the computer, and walk away. Get away from the thread.

the FIRST FUCKING POST IN THIS THREAD.

unsubscribed due to idiots fighting

Quote - @Blondie I won't argue about the actual numbers, since I have not counted them either. And yes, the DAZ store filters are not very reliable.

Oh, wow, that's an understatement! I can't tell you how many times I've tried to find a product that I KNEW was in the store somewhere, but could not find it because the "search" feature is just... lame.

Quote - It is a fact though that I spent far less than I used to do. This month less than 25% compared to dec last year. Why - because there is less available for the generation 4 figures.

This is true, but then, this happens whenever any new "generation" of figures comes out. When V4 came out, the number of V3 items dropped dramatically. Now, V3 is still a perfectly valid and usable figure-- and for that matter, so is V2-- and hell, for that matter, so is Posette-- but as newer "generations" of figures come along, they supplant older figures.

Quote - I did buy the surgeon outfit in the hope that the cr2 converter would enable me to get it in to Poser (that one fit my criteria except for not being able to use it as is), but no luck so far.

That is a great oufit, isn't it? AgeofArmour does fabulous products.

Quote - My main disappointment comes from the perception I have that the CR2 converter is of a low priority to DAZ. I base that perception on the lack of responsiveness from DAZ after having done several forum posts, a bug report and PM's.

I don't believe that the .cr2 converter is a "low priority"-- in fact, my impression is exactly the opposite-- but the fact remains that unless and until Smith Micro "steps up to the plate" and does its bit to make Genesis stuff work in Poser, there's a real limit to what DAZ can do.

And I can't fault Smith Micro for being hesitant about all that. If I were SM, I, too, would have taken the attitude of, "Oh, well, let's just wait and see how this whole Genesis thing really works out.... is it really as great as DAZ claims it is? Is it really worth supporting? Should we jump in and adopt this technology, or not?" Any company with a brain would naturally be cautious about leaping off in a totally new direction, without having any idea where that leap might lead.

I don't have any real "inside" information, but my overall impression is that DAZ is still trying very hard to work with Smith Micro to resolve this compatibility issue.

I most sincerely hope that the two companies are able to arrive at a mutually beneficial agreement. I would love to be able to create a product for Genesis and have it work in Poser, effortlessly and seamlessly, just as items created for Poser worked (well, usually) in DS. The thing is, I still much prefer using Poser-- and if I could use Genesis in Poser, and have the same functionality in Poser that I have in DS, I would be a LOT happier than I am now.

Here's a thought: If you're upset with DAZ, or just don't like them, forget they exist. If you like DAZ, great. Not everyone needs to hear about it. Breathe deep. Seek peace. No one is bleeding.

Yes, it's a free country. Yes you have a right to an opinion. But, be honest, is this doing anything but raising blood pressures?

Here, have an ice cream and a Baileys.

Quote - I don't believe that the .cr2 converter is a "low priority"-- in fact, my impression is exactly the opposite-- but the fact remains that unless and until Smith Micro "steps up to the plate" and does its bit to make Genesis stuff work in Poser, there's a real limit to what DAZ can do.

And I can't fault Smith Micro for being hesitant about all that. If I were SM, I, too, would have taken the attitude of, "Oh, well, let's just wait and see how this whole Genesis thing really works out.... is it really as great as DAZ claims it is? Is it really worth supporting? Should we jump in and adopt this technology, or not?" Any company with a brain would naturally be cautious about leaping off in a totally new direction, without having any idea where that leap might lead.

I don't have any real "inside" information, but my overall impression is that DAZ is still trying very hard to work with Smith Micro to resolve this compatibility issue.

I most sincerely hope that the two companies are able to arrive at a mutually beneficial agreement. I would love to be able to create a product for Genesis and have it work in Poser, effortlessly and seamlessly, just as items created for Poser worked (well, usually) in DS. The thing is, I still much prefer using Poser-- and if I could use Genesis in Poser, and have the same functionality in Poser that I have in DS, I would be a LOT happier than I am now.

I have a different impression. The lackluster responses from DAZ (if any at all) worry me in this respect. I know things like SubD are not implemented in Poser, but lots of things have been done and - as far as I know - SM thinks that it has done their job. The current exporter does not make use of this and if we wait another month or longer before we find out that there is still a problem, that month is wasted because nobody is doing anything to correct it (DAZ or SM)

That is why I think it has a low priority

I don't think it's low priority. I think it's just holidays and vacations getting in the way and they are in the middle of working on installers, the new store, documentation and bug fixes according to Randy. Hey, I can't wait for DS 4.1 to come out with big render speed increases that Randy talked about before he went on vacation. Maybe there are other improvements to the exporter, too, in the next update. But I'm used to waiting.

Quote - I don't think it's low priority. I think it's just holidays and vacations getting in the way and they are in the middle of working on installers, the new store, documentation and bug fixes according to Randy. Hey, I can't wait for DS 4.1 to come out with big render speed increases that Randy talked about before he went on vacation. Maybe there are other improvements to the exporter, too, in the next update. But I'm used to waiting.

This is playing already long before the holidays.

But we won't agree about this since we both do not not have the inside knowledge

Nothing to do but wait, let's just hope it is not too late

You know, doesn't matter how mad I get, I don't use profanity on a forum, even when it is permisable.

Quote - I have a different impression. The lackluster responses from DAZ (if any at all) worry me in this respect. I know things like SubD are not implemented in Poser, but lots of things have been done and - as far as I know - SM thinks that it has done their job. The current exporter does not make use of this and if we wait another month or longer before we find out that there is still a problem, that month is wasted because nobody is doing anything to correct it (DAZ or SM)

That is why I think it has a low priority

Unfortunately it takes time to write alternative code, rather than just supporting something outright. DAZ's spec for weightmapping, scaling, joints etc for their figures is much bigger than what SM is doing, so you going to have this going back and forth and the exporter has to narrow things down and SM have to tweak their spec. It's going to take time and a lot of it has to depend on how much SM ultimately supports.

However, from what I've read in the reviews in three 3D and artwork magazines, they love posers new features, but they have weren't too kind in figure setup tools (and included content) and Genesis not being supported has been mentioned in each magazine; so it's in SM's best interest to implement Genesis so it isn't left behind.

And yes, although those same mags loved the Genesis tech, DAZ got seriously hammered for no documentation and tools are easy to use, but you don't know that because there's no info on how to use them. Also there's been the random lockups in the program that they've had as well.... so DAZ needs to get cracking on those issues.

Oh man. All the venomous "free speech" in these Daz-0related threads is making me start to think fondly of censorship. Just because you CAN talk like this in a forum, doesn't mean you HAVE to. Both the DAZ and Poser extremists are making it hard for any of us to be taken seriously when we try to get a point across to DAZ.

It will almost be a relief when the mods put these threads out of their misery.

I really don't understand all the impatience. DS4 has only been out a short time, and P9/PP2012 have only been out a short time-- since September or so. Three months is a very short time in terms of software development. The technology behind DS4/Genesis has been in development for at least two or three years, if not longer, and I'm sure the new features in P9/PP2012 have been in devolopment for about as long.

I also don't understand the tendency to jump to conclusions about what is or is not a priority with either DAZ or Smith Micro. I don't know what's going on inside DAZ, or which projects have high priority and which ones don't, and neither does anybody else who doesn't actually work at DAZ. Same for Smith Micro. The fact that DAZ has been quiet about the exporter doesn't mean that DAZ isn't working on it-- and likewise, the fact that SM has been quiet doesn't mean that it isn't working on a solution to the incompatibility problem.

A company has to keep many things fairly "close to the vest" while they're being developed. Suppose SM announced today that, yes, it's going to incorporate DS4 technology into Poser-- but then, a few weeks from now, it ran into problems that make that impossible. SM would end up looking very stupid. Or suppose DAZ announced that the exporter was "almost done" and would be ready in another week-- but then ran into problems that caused the thing to be delayed for months. DAZ would end up looking like a liar, or an idiot, or both.

Unless you work for a company-- and maybe not even then, depending on what your position is-- you're simply not in a position even to speculate about what is going on inside that company or what it's working on or anything else.

Blondie, it looks like you have a problem reading as well

Let me repeat:

I have a different impression. The lackluster responses from DAZ (if any at all) worry me in this respect. I know things like SubD are not implemented in Poser, but lots of things have been done and - as far as I know - SM thinks that it has done their job. The current exporter does not make use of this and if we wait another month or longer before we find out that there is still a problem, that month is wasted because nobody is doing anything to correct it (DAZ or SM)

That is why I think it has a low priority

Are you going to tell me that I cannot have an opinion anymore?

Locking this thread as well

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Regarding the DAZ vs. The World topic....

ig·no·rant/ˈignərənt/