arrow1 opened this issue on Oct 26, 2011 · 58 posts
arrow1 posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 4:00 PM
Got an email this morning from DAZ to say Victoria 5 is available for Platinum Club members. Not much use for Poser users though.Cheers
Custom built computer 128 gigs RAM,4 Terabyte hard drive, NVIDIA RTX 4060 TI 16 GIG Gig,12 TH Generation Intel i9, Dual LG Screens, 0/S Windows 11, networked to a Special 12th Generation intel I9, RTX 3060 12 Gig, Windows 11,64 gigs RAM, Dual Phillips Screens, 2 Terabyte SSD Hard Drive plus 1 Terabyte Hard Drive,3rd Computer intel i7,128 gigs ram, Graphics Card NVIDIA RTX 3060 Gig,1 Terabyte Hard Drive, OS Windows 11 64 Bit Dual Samsung Syncmaster 226bw Screens.Plus INFINITY Laptop 64 Bit,64 gigs RAM.Intel i9 chip.Windows 11 Pro and Ultimate. 4 x 2 Terrabyte Hard Drives and 2 x 2 Terrabyte external USB Hard drives. All Posers from 4 to Poser 2010 and 2012, 2014. Poser 11 and 12, 13, Hexagon 2.5 64 Bit, Carrara 8.5 Pro 64 bit, Adobe Photoshop CS4 Creative Production Suite. Adobe Photoshop CC 2024, Vue 10 and 10.5 Infinite Vue 11 14.5 Infinite plus Vue 15 and 16 Infinite, Vue 2023 and 2024, Plant Catologue, DAZ Studio 4.23, iClone 7 with 3DXchange and Character Creator 3, Nikon D3 Camera with several lenses. Nikon Z 6 ii and Z5. 180-600mm lens, 24-70 mm lens with adapter.Just added 2x 2 Terrabyte portable hard drives.
StudioTjeerd posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 4:08 PM
Well, maybe it is, that is if you own both DS and Poser. I managed to export the Genesis figure to Poser with the tutorial of Randall Lloyd and I think there's a pretty good chance that this will work with V5 as well.
macsavers posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 4:13 PM
I had a post removed from the Daz forums about V5. I have no idea why since it was just stating that it appeared the V5 was nothing more than a morph set for Genesis and that without a Poser version, the value just didn't seem to be there. DS4 is great and all, I have advanced, but there are still some features that Poser has that DS4 can't touch yet, especially in the area of animation. You have to buy a plug-in set to get the animation features for DS4, so it's basically more expensive than Poser.
Don't get me wrong, the Genesis characters are amazing and I realize that there's no way to get Genesis as it is now into Poser due to all the extra code required that Poser just doesn't work wtih. You can port your Genesis figures over, but it's not a full export as it leaves out items Poser can't handle. Still, DazStudio and Poser have their places and they aren't equal due to features both lack from the other. Neither seems to be better than the other.
It's just that with V5, it appears Daz is moving away from Poser and it's community and starting to force people to choose. Daz has been such a huge supporter of Poser over the years, but it looks like they are opening the door for others at this point.
V5 just doesn't seem worth the high price tag. Anyone else feel this way?
Zev0 posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 4:38 PM
It is definately worth the price tag. Dial up Genesis basic female and then dial up V5 and compare. The amount of detail is really fantastic. One example is behind the knee. Also V5 and Genesis works nicely in poser if you enable smooth polygons. Earlier today I imported Genesis with all its morphs and I can dial them all up, including V5. Only problem is no clothes fit, but I hear there are a couple of auto morph projects going on. Daz themselves are working on a solution. And if daz was really moving away from Poser, then they wouldn't have bothered getting Genesis into poser in the first place. :)
macsavers posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 4:46 PM
So, you're saying V5 is like GenesisPlus? There's no way to create a V5 from Genesis just from morphs?
I do know you can use the auto-fit plug-in from DazStudio (not the free version) and then I believe you can port that model over. I could be wrong on the porting, but you can definitely use the auto-fit to give V5/Genesis some clothes.
msg24_7 posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 4:49 PM
Quote - ...
V5 just doesn't seem worth the high price tag. Anyone else feel this way?
Yes. From the promo text it looks like V5 is just another morph/character plus texture for Genesis.
Any difference to other "custom" morphs? I don't know.
Clothes, hair, etc. for "V5" doesn't make much sense. Studio is supposed to have the tools necessary for any Genesis clothing following any morph applied to the Genesis mesh.
So it's always something for Genesis... required V5 (like morphs+ for V4).
It still may be worth the price tag. We are just used to very, very low prices for textures, etc.
Yesterday's the past, tomorrow's the future, but today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.
Darboshanski posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 4:50 PM
@MacSavers as my Mom used to say the truth hurts and Daz doesn't like people coming on their forums rocking the boat. There are a few sticky posts at Daz on the subject of disrupting commercial threads maybe they viewed your "disruptive" over their new big product. V5 is indeed a morph set for Genesis and that's a fact.
Until DS can be imported into other programs such as C4d, 3d max and Vue usefully then speaking for myself I have no use for DS. A few of my colleagues that have tried to use DS in such programs I listed above with no success.
I'd love to use DS because of the Genesis figure but I have no time to fight it when using C4d and Vue and the import problems I have experienced. Either Daz doesn't understand this or just doesn't care time will tell what affect it will have on them as a true company.
macsavers posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 4:58 PM
Well, outside of the Pro bundle, it looks like there aren't any real special deals for V5 outside of just buying it first if you're a Platinum Club member. Since there's no sale pricing, there's no real rush.
I think I'm going to just take a watch and see approach at the moment. Too many early adopters are just defending their purchase instead of giving any real information. I don't mind buying it if there's value, but when I can get a V4 character so much cheaper and most won't notice the difference, I'll probalby just stick with V4 for now.
LaurieA posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 5:58 PM
Quote - I had a post removed from the Daz forums about V5.
Yeah, happens a lot. Same here. I'm not going to use Daz figures other than what I've already got, so that's that ;).
Laurie
charlie43 posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 6:23 PM
i've never been a big fan of DS, because the interface is just not user-friendly to me. It is the first 3D app I ever owned, and it is what got me started in modeling. I recently upgraded to DS4 because of an interest in Genesis, but working with that system made me very squeamish. I didn't like the morphing between male/female, etc. It didn't seem natural and really turned me off. I have a great affinity for my characters, and they get to be like real people to me after working with them for long periods of time. (Yes, I have no life! :D). I won't be purchasing V5 or any of the components, instead planning on making my own characters in the near future as I learn the art better. IMHO DAZ is moving more towards the creation of a distinct line that will probably add more to the bottom line in the future. It seems to be the way things are headed now...
C~
bevans84 posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 6:37 PM
Seems like quite the too-do over another lo poly figure. True, the textures look good, but good texturing will make about anything look good.
Sounds like Daz made a V5-RR for us poser users. :-)
estherau posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 6:48 PM
quote "
Sounds like Daz made a V5-RR for us poser users. :-)"
EXACTLY what we have at present. Maybe there will be some way.
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 7:37 PM
I imported a hi res V5 and I was able to copy the skeleton from the low res V5 in poser to hi. so now the hi res V5 bends beautifully but she has no morphs and can't even open hermouth.
The ralph Dimension3d script mor cloth doesn't work for weight mapped figures.
So anyone got any ideas what I should try next to get the morphs across?
I have C4D.
love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
lkendall posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 8:00 PM
Does the low res figure have morphs? If so, then,
If WW2 puts out a v5 module, you can "refit" the low res figure to the high res figure, and transfer the morphs. WW2/P9 supports weight maped figures.
Maybe CC can add something to the program he is working on, PML, if it doesn't already support weight-maps.
How are you at using an editor. CR2s are just text files, loooooooong text files. If you know how to edit them by hand (and I don't), you should be able to tediously transfer the morphs from one CR2 to another. Good luck on them working as you intend.
For those with the low res v5 in P9/PP2012, how does a crease angle of 180 work on rendering the figure? Some have suggested that this could be a partial solution for using the figure.
lmk
Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.
estherau posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 8:09 PM
okay, good idea about trying WW, because the low res figure does have morphs.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
estherau posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 8:10 PM
oh but does WW do V5?
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
kerwin posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 8:16 PM
Quote - I had a post removed from the Daz forums about V5. I have no idea why since it was just stating that it appeared the V5 was nothing more than a morph set for Genesis and that without a Poser version, the value just didn't seem to be there....
V5 just doesn't seem worth the high price tag. Anyone else feel this way?
DAZ mods are working overtime to delete posts of those that express concern or skepticism of their current direction, focus, support or prices. It's somewhat haphazardly applied as I see some posts go and then others which seem more strident stay. They seem to be pretty touchy about references to prices or negative review of products . . . especially their own DAZ originals.
When some folks expressed skepticism at the rather heavyweight process for getting V5 to Poser via the CR2 exporter, those posts were quickly deleted.
I've pretty much given up on posting to the DAZ forums as a result . . . too political as to what you can say and can't say.
-K
wolf359 posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 8:18 PM
"Until DS can be imported into other programs such as C4d, 3d max and Vue usefully then speaking for myself I have no use for DS. A few of my colleagues that have tried to use DS in such programs I listed above with no success.
"
HI people are already importing and rendering animations of genesis figure in C4D R13
the process:
It works very well, with riptide and the fixed animate2.dll : In 4 clicks you get the fully animated (lipsync included) and textured characters from DAZ Studio to C4D.
In DAZ : 2 clicks
In C4D : 2 clicks
Cheers
mamba-negra posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 8:19 PM
So, turning on smoothing doesn't smooth out the low-rez v5 model? I'm on the fence about whether I have any interest in DS, and don't really see V5 as having value outside of DS...so...I am finding that people are using her in poser as news!
EClark1894 posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 8:25 PM
Quote - > Quote - I had a post removed from the Daz forums about V5. I have no idea why since it was just stating that it appeared the V5 was nothing more than a morph set for Genesis and that without a Poser version, the value just didn't seem to be there....
V5 just doesn't seem worth the high price tag. Anyone else feel this way?
DAZ mods are working overtime to delete posts of those that express concern or skepticism of their current direction, focus, support or prices. It's somewhat haphazardly applied as I see some posts go and then others which seem more strident stay. They seem to be pretty touchy about references to prices or negative review of products . . . especially their own DAZ originals.
When some folks expressed skepticism at the rather heavyweight process for getting V5 to Poser via the CR2 exporter, those posts were quickly deleted.
I've pretty much given up on posting to the DAZ forums as a result . . . too political as to what you can say and can't say.
-K
I still post there on ocassion, but I make sure to avoid posting in any thread about Genesis or DAZ Studio 4. If I do make a post, it's usually general in nature.
JenX posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 8:35 PM
Just a heads up:
We understand that those of you who have had posts deleted at DAZ are frustrated, however, discussions and speculations of why aren't welcome here (Please see sticky thread on this topic in this forum). I don't care if you talk about it elsewhere, but it's just not welcome here.
Jeni
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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it
into a fruit salad.
Darboshanski posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 8:41 PM
Quote - "Until DS can be imported into other programs such as C4d, 3d max and Vue usefully then speaking for myself I have no use for DS. A few of my colleagues that have tried to use DS in such programs I listed above with no success.
"HI people are already importing and rendering animations of genesis figure in C4D R13
the process:
It works very well, with riptide and the fixed animate2.dll : In 4 clicks you get the fully animated (lipsync included) and textured characters from DAZ Studio to C4D.
In DAZ : 2 clicks
- Export Obj with DAZ preset (1unit=1cm), choose to collect maps and rename said folder "tex"
- Export mdd (make sure you have the fixed animate dll or it will come out broken).
In C4D : 2 clicks
- Import obj with Riptide pro (with materials, no mesh splitting)
- Select obj and apply Mdd in Riptide pro.
Wait a few seconds... and voilà ! Ready to play.Cheers
Hey wolf359 thanks!!!!
WandW posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 8:52 PM
Quote - Well, maybe it is, that is if you own both DS and Poser. I managed to export the Genesis figure to Poser with the tutorial of Randall Lloyd and I think there's a pretty good chance that this will work with V5 as well.
The CR2 exporter is available? Is an update to DS4 or a plugin?
EDIT-I just found an update to DS4 in my downloads (no notification of course) I'll check it out...
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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
mamba-negra posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 8:55 PM
I read through the forums, and it's collada. You basically export the model, copy the textures over and poser can use the figure. Attached items, like clothes, don't work.
JoePublic posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 10:25 PM
The other two figures are my V3RR-Head-V3-Body hybrid mesh sculpted and rigged after actual humans.
Well, I'm still somewhat hopefull, but right now the glass is more empty than full.
While V5 smooths quite well with polygon smoothing enabled, the performance is a lot worse than with my hybrid figures. That means a render using a 19.000 polygon figure like Genesis takes longer than a render using my 40.000 polygon figures because Genesis needs smoothing while my hybrid figures don't.
V5's default shape, well, let's say tastes are different.
Shoulders are really not even close to realistic IMO.
Other joints are, well, better than V4.
Worst part is that scaling seems to be very bad. The scaling needed to switch between Genesis default shapes works quite well (V5, Supermodell, Female, Male, Child...etc), but trying to scale the legs along the y-axis breaks the joints completely.
I really hoped Genesis animateable joint centers would fix this, as it will be impossible to create more realistic proportioned shapes without fully working single-axis scaling.
So the next two steps have to be the ability to import a full resolution version to Poser and the linking of the joint centers with the scaling dials.
Otherwise i'd say, her use, at least for me, would be severely limited.
JoePublic posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 10:34 PM
JoePublic posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 10:39 PM
JoePublic posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 10:42 PM
JoePublic posted Wed, 26 October 2011 at 10:50 PM
V5 at 0.7 and Child at 0.2 creates nicely "average" adult proportions.
Zev0 posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 2:06 AM
The muscle flex morphs work in poser aswell. Nice:) Instead of the scaling the leg manually, use the morphs to scale it. (I imported all m4/v4 morph++ from D3d Gen4 app). Dialed up/down leg length etc and they worked fine. But then again you have to buy the D3D app. I'll go and search through my genesis morphs and see if there isn't any leg scaling morphs that didnt come from gen4 app.
Kassie posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 2:57 AM
I am totally confused here.. So nothing for Genesis and V5 will work in Poser
I have Poser 8, and now with V5 and future M5 coming out.. are the vendors going to leave out 4 out?
Are we going to have to choose between Daz or Poser?
estherau posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 3:04 AM
You can use V5 in poser pro 2012 but not in earlier versions. And it is a low polygon model in poser ie less detail than it would have in DS.
Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
Kassie posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 3:07 AM
Thank you!
estherau posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 4:17 AM
suppose one imported a V4 genesis figure, scaled her to whatever then copied the V4rigging into her so she was no longer weight mapped. Could you make a teenage V4 and would it take V4 poses and be able to wear V4 clothes?
love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
infinity10 posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 4:27 AM
Uhm... My 2 rupiahs worth:
I don't own Genesis nor do I think I will buy Victoria 5.
I am a PC member there.
I am quite happy to trundle along with older figures and hey, even the Poser figures.
Eternal Hobbyist
ice-boy posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 4:35 AM
are members even aware what polygon smoothing is in poser? its displacement. it displaces the mesh so that it looks smooth. using a full displacement to get a smooth body is NOT an option for complex renders.
you can use blender to use smooth subdividing. you import V5 into blender. use subd and then export it out.
EClark1894 posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 4:45 AM
Quote - suppose one imported a V4 genesis figure, scaled her to whatever then copied the V4rigging into her so she was no longer weight mapped. Could you make a teenage V4 and would it take V4 poses and be able to wear V4 clothes?
love esther
I'm not exactly sure I see the point in doing that, asuming it could be done. S4 makes an excellent teen for V4 and with D3D's Copy/Scale script she can wear V4's clothes. Aside from some fixes, the biggest benefit of using Genesis over V4 is the bending by weightmapping.
estherau posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 4:46 AM
well I was just thinking another advantage is the scaling which seems to do better than poser as poser seems to have problem with single axis scaling??
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
JoePublic posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 5:40 AM
Well, I thought about that, too, but I think that's not really an option.
The DAZ body morphs only scale arms and legs as a whole, but some shapes require only the shins to be scaled, some only the thighs. So I need full direct control over the scaling.
The single axis scaling obviously does work in Poser for Genesis when used with the bodymorphs, so there is no (technical) reason it shouldn't work by itself, too.
I already unhid and dialed the joint centers manually, but "fixing" the thigh messed up the shin and fixing the shin messed up the foot.
Anyway, here's a render of V5 in Studio, and the shoulders are a lot better than the exported version.
But, wow, is Studio 4 really that much slower than Poser 2012 ?
I used the default software render setting and the exact same lights I used in Poser, and the render took several times as long as a comparable Poser render.
Zev0 posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 8:43 AM
it depends what lights you're using in daz. ubersurface slows render times down heavily.
WandW posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 12:51 PM
The latest update to DS4 does indeed allow Poser export of Genesis-check your doanloads and reset if necessary.
I exported Genesis with the Lana texture that comes with Studio, and dialed in the Average Woman morph in Poser Pro 2012. She looks and moves pretty good, although the transparency was turned off on the eyelashes; a trip to the Material Room fixed that. It has the Hip>Waist rigging that came from ODF's open-source Antonia Polygon figure. On the downside, it doesn't have any IK, and applying Universal Poses seems to separate the feet from its legs.
I'm in the process of moving to a new render machine, so I don't have any Gen4 stuff installed yet to try to adapt...
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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
vilters posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 1:08 PM
Oh!
Not having IK was one of my PRO items for her :-)
Oef finally a figure without IK.
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
vilters posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 1:08 PM
Oh!
Not having IK was one of my PRO items for her :-)
Oef finally a figure without IK.
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
pjz99 posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 1:12 PM
Quote - Thigh and shin scaled to 90% each along the y-axis.
Yeah this is still a problem in Poser (non-uniform body part scaling).
WandW posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 1:16 PM
Quote - Thigh and shin scaled to 110% each along the y-axis.
JP, I tried a similar test with Alyson2 at 90% and 110%y scaling, and she looked pretty reasonable(with only a slight peak on the knee at 110%), so it is apparently an issue with V5's exported rigging...
EDIT I tried it with the base Genesis figure exported, and got the same results Joe got..
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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
pjz99 posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 2:06 PM
No, it's not specific to the Genesis rig, it's an old problem with a wide variety of rigs. It may be less obvious in particular situations but the basic problem is that Poser does not move the joint center (e: or is it the endpoint?) unless you scale the bone on all three axes (X, Y, Z).
pjz99 posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 2:08 PM
e: WandW are you saying you scaled the whole Alyson figure (the Body actor) or one bone? The problem we're talking about is with specific bones down the hierarchy.
WandW posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 3:04 PM
Paul,
I y-scaled Alyson's thigh and shin +/- 10% as JP did with V5.
I'm famiiar with the single-axis scaling issue-I thought weight mapping was supposed to solve it... :mellow:
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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
pjz99 posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 3:51 PM
Nope, it still happens, appears that it is nothing to do with how weighting was done (falloff volume or weight map).
lkendall posted Thu, 27 October 2011 at 4:16 PM
Single axis scaling was not always a problem. V3 and V4 scaled very well this way.
lmk
Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.
mathman posted Fri, 28 October 2011 at 3:09 AM
I'm totally confused after having read this thread.
Firstly, does the Cr2 exporter DS4->Poser now exist ? .. I have not been able to find it anywhere.
Also, how is it that V5 works in PPro2012, given that the V5 page in the DAZ store says that it only works in DS4 ?
Clearly, I am missing something.
Believable3D posted Fri, 28 October 2011 at 3:30 AM
I doubt the Cr2 exporter exists as a standalone. I think you need to update your version of DS4 to the latest download.
V5 is not fully supported in PP2012, since although you can port loaded morphs and weight mapping essentially works, none of the other Genesis-specific features are supported by Poser, at least at this point.
______________
Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM
Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3
JenX posted Fri, 28 October 2011 at 3:59 AM
The CR2 Exporter is included now in DS4 (even the free version) and your downloads should reflect a recent reset of the program. (Mine does. YMMV)
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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it
into a fruit salad.
kerwin posted Fri, 28 October 2011 at 11:40 AM
Be sure to read the tutorial here
before attempting export. It will save some fustration.
-K
Eric Walters posted Fri, 28 October 2011 at 9:54 PM
Wand
How well does the face render with the HiRes Lana texture? Am I spouting a misconception, or does the smaller number of polygon's affect this?
Eric Walters posted Fri, 28 October 2011 at 9:55 PM
Can we see some renders from Poser?
WandW posted Fri, 28 October 2011 at 10:19 PM
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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
R_Hatch posted Sat, 29 October 2011 at 12:35 AM
@WandW:
Have you increased the crease angle to 180? That may help the ears render more smoothly.