I'm Old.

I'm fat.

i'm married.

I'm not a prude.

Why is it that everytime I find a flightsuit, Nobel Prize Winner or Aluminum Can Recycler outfit I think I can use it's always got Buttless chaps, nipple clamps or a zipper open down to the curlies?

i'm too old to look like a horndog. At 53... that feces is just creepy and I don't want to be creepy on purpose. It's hard to find clothing for women Characters that doesn't look like it was made by a 14 year old dufus virgin with too much access to Internet Porn.

 

            “So, roll me further B_t__h!”

Lord, how many times have we fried THIS fish!

I'm with you, Mac. When I want a sexy girl, I put her in the nude, because to me, that's as sexy as sexy can get.

When I want a girl clothed, well... I WANT HER CLOTHED!

However, you and I are aparently the only two old farts who feel this way. It seems the slutwear is what sells, and as long as that's true, that's what's going to drive the engine here.

May I suggest that you check out 9mbi.com? They have a huge library of professional/casual for V4 and it's very affordable. I've spent a small fortune with them. They have a funky way of conforming the items that takes just a little getting used to, but they work and render like a dream.

Perhaps, someday, when there are just no more thongs and jumpsuits to design, some kind modeller will get around to what you and I need. Just hope we are still alive then. :)

Add me to the list.  I don't mind the sexy stuff but most of the time I want basic, down to earth practical clothes for the womenfolk.  

SanctumArt made a pretty nice space suit for V2, years back.  Except it had high heels?  WTF?  Real useful in space or combat, they are.  

Oh well.

BTW, I got round the problem by rarely rendering human figures these days.  :) 

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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I do have some 9mbi stuff but it looks like I'll be getting more. Found some decent stuff at Poswerworld two. I just keep getting the New Product  "Freezer Inhabitant" notices and when I look at them it's something no one would wear.

 

            “So, roll me further B_t__h!”

Hahahahahahaha!!!!! I thought it was just me. I like the fantasy stuff at times, however too much of anything is not good.

Unfortunately the 9mbi nurse outfit comes with a zipper all the way down to the crotch, and the impossible to avoid high heels. Well, at least I have the scrubs outfits. Most of the nurses I work with use those anyway. Some of their other items look good. Thanks for the suggestion.

Good luck on your quest for decent clothes. Poserworld is a good place.

 

Hey, I'm the same way with the clothing issue. I hate the slutwear and it's a frustrating task finding good decent everyday clothing. I only by stuff that people would actually wear outside that's why my collection isn't vast and why I have to use some of the same items over and over again in renders. But thanks to getting better at WW I'm finding more V4 casual stuff that I can convert to Miki3 and Alyson2. So yay for that. :D

Gee, I no longer feel like the Lone Ranger! I am like everyone else - I am not a prude or someone who taskes offense at a pretty woman, but c'mon! when all I see is T&A and outfits you would never see on the street, I kinda lose touch with realty. I am sure that what basicwiz says - that is what drives the market, so that is what you get. I have stopped buying a great deal of stuff because of this, and I am learning to build clothing that REAL women wear. It helps that my wife owns a couple of clothing stores - she gives me great input and I have a ton of stuff to model. I am sick to death of the stuff I see lately. There are only so many images you can render of a woman who is less than half dressed and has all her bits hanging out. I have pretty much stopped working in Poser because of ths and that makes me sad, indeed. Glad to see I am not alone here. Was beginning to question my taste, let alone my age and sanity. I'm 68, and I need a reality check...

 

C~

**"Why is it that everytime I find a flightsuit, Nobel Prize Winner or Aluminum Can Recycler outfit I think I can use it's always got Buttless chaps, nipple clamps or a zipper open down to the curlies?....It's hard to find clothing for women Characters that doesn't look like it was made by a 14 year old dufus virgin with too much access to Internet Porn."**

Hi I assume By "women" Characters you mean those other than just V4??
There are still normal "work clothing" items around
and if you have wardrobe wizard you can convert them as needed

Cheers

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hey who wouldn't want their heart surgeon to be wearing buttless chaps and nipple clamps while cutting into your thorax while you're clinically dead? i know i would

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Quote - hey who wouldn't want their heart surgeon to be wearing buttless chaps and nipple clamps while cutting into your thorax while you're clinically dead? i know i would

Depends if the surgeon's name is Barney or Barbara. :) 

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And, of course, this doesn't even BEGIN to talk about looking for SHOES for V4! There are so very few shoes that are not heels, and neither my wife, daughter, nor my best friend's girlfriend wear heels for anything other than "dress up." They tend to wear flats most of the time. But try finding flats for V4. I've found exactly ONE set.

Another $.02

And wolf359 found a mask that wasn't a ball gag too.

 

 

I'll have to look into Wardrobe Wizard also.

 

            “So, roll me further B_t__h!”

And you may add me to the list as well :P

I have my share of slutwear, sure, but I normally only use what I make myself or something from 9mbi which is about as close to normal as normal gets in the Poserverse ;).

Laurie

I am going to suggest a look at Poserworld.

I am sure tha swere the scrubs and other clothing for V4 came from, its pretty cheap too.

You dont have to make Porn with Poser ?  oh dear .. * discards pz3 file Attack of the zombie nurses *   

What? Are you serious? They make clothes? Why?

Wardrobe Wizard gave me a headache.

 

            “So, roll me further B_t__h!”

Throw me on the list of old codgers who want regular clothes too!

I was just back over at PoserWorld and they really do have lots of stuff. 

 

            “So, roll me further B_t__h!”

I'm not sure where this notion got started - probably a late nite comic - but chaps are by definition 'buttless.' Do a Google image search or heed the peerless Wikipedia:

"sturdy coverings for the legs consisting of leggings and a belt. They are buckled on over trousers with the chaps' integrated belt, but unlike trousers they have no seat and are not joined at the crotch." 

We noe return you to your regularly scheduled program. 

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Yeah... but THOSE chaps are made to be worn over the top of something other than a G-String. Or nothing.

 

            “So, roll me further B_t__h!”

I found a V4 Soviet Sniper outfit! Now THAT'S useful.

 

            “So, roll me further B_t__h!”

I think what finally did it for me is when I ran across spanking dresses on one site or another - can't remember where. And all in the name of art...

 

C~

I used to be a Poserworld member up to a few years ago and collected a lot of stuff.

In all honesty, I don't have the money to buy much stuff these days but if I did, a PW subscription would be first on my list.

Clothes are something I haven't even attempted to make and probably never will, so I'll have to depend on others to make stuff if/when I need it and/or can afford it.  TBH, most of what I see on sale recently doesn't appeal in the least.  I've pretty much had it with Poser people, other than the ones I have already.  No doubt my interest will increase if I get me hands on V5/Genesis and D|S 4 in future.  Then again, maybe not.  I use Poser for other stuff these days and I'm not much into making pics with people in 'em. 

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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Add me to the normal clothes request list.

PW is so worth it. There is plenty of normal clothes there. A month's subscription and download like crazy.

---

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
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I use Poser 13 and win 10

I found poserworld to be a mixed bag as far as quality went, and some things have few morphs but for the price and what you can download I got a lot of very useable clothes and props.

I did not renew my subscription because I had much more stuff than I never used so I thought I would stop collecting for a while.

There is a jacket, blouse and skirt set for V4 that I have used a lot, and a few clothes and uniforms for Mike 3 and 4 that made the subscription worthwhile. I did some retexturing and made a few transparency maps for skirt length but I do that for a lot of the things I buy.

 

There must be some normal clothes in rendos store as well, it can't all be chainmail bikinis and swords. 

where can i find v4 proctologist

v. important, thx

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For the G2 figures there is a lot of career wear at Content Paradise, that can be converted with Wardrobe Wizard.

Also, PhilC has a set of clothing for V3 that is extremely useful, converts well to other figures, and is very easy to retexture.

In the Poser 5 legacy content are all the Judy clothes. Judy herself is not much use, but her clothes are very useful and also convert very well.

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Auxiliary Apps: Blender 2.79, Vue Complete 2016, Genetica 4 Pro, Gliftex 11 Pro, CorelDraw Suite X6, Comic Life 2, Project Dogwaffle Howler 8, Stitch Witch

Too bad not that many vendors monitor these threads. Get a recent fashion magazine and have a look at where fashion is going. Tone it down to half - use the feel, not the cut - and make clothing. Real clothing for real women!

Once I get done with a few other key projects (see below), that is definitely something I want to get back into. By then, Blender will even have BMesh!! :biggrin:

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showforum.php?forum_id=12444

FYI: We DO have a wishing well forum, and I know a LOT of vendors as well as store staff monitor that forum for new ideas ;)

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

Didn't think of that - good point, Jen.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

np!

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.

> Quote - And, of course, this doesn't even BEGIN to talk about looking for SHOES for V4! There are so very few shoes that are not heels, and neither my wife, daughter, nor my best friend's girlfriend wear heels for anything other than "dress up." They tend to wear flats most of the time. But try finding flats for V4. I've found exactly *ONE* set. > > Another $.02

You mean like these? I really should finish these ;). Sorry for the fugly pose...I was testing the bends...lol.

Laurie

Ouch, that poor anke. It's broken and the heel of the shoe is digging in. :p

> Quote - Ouch, that poor anke. It's broken and the heel of the shoe is digging in. :p

see above

I'm aware a foot can't bend that far. And actually the heel didn't cut into the foot, oddly enough. I expected it too. In testing bends I bent it farther than what was realistic to see if anything went wonky.

Laurie

Those shoes are extremely well modelled, Laurie! Wow!! You are so clever

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

Quote - Those shoes are extremely well modelled, Laurie! Wow!! You are so clever

Maybe, if you don't look too close...lolol.

Laurie

Excellent shoes Laurie, my Poser ladies would welcome them.

Poser 11 Pro, Windows 10

Auxiliary Apps: Blender 2.79, Vue Complete 2016, Genetica 4 Pro, Gliftex 11 Pro, CorelDraw Suite X6, Comic Life 2, Project Dogwaffle Howler 8, Stitch Witch

So, when do you post them???? I'vge got money in hand!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, they were practice shoes...that's why I never finished em...lol. I mean, they are finished pretty much, but...well, I'm not sure they're fit for human consumption. I can make some stuff and feel good about giving it away, but...

When I made these, I used Wings and Wings is a box modeler. If I were to do the shoes today, I'd use Hex or Blender where I could pull off one edge/face at a time or where I could easier spin an edge loop. The topology on these is real crap...lol. They just look like they might be nice ;). But those are the sorts of shoes I'd like to see for my Poser characters. Some places like 9mbi has realistic shoes, but most are dress shoes, not the kinda ya wear every day.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - Ouch, that poor anke. It's broken and the heel of the shoe is digging in. :p

see above

I'm aware a foot can't bend that far. And actually the heel didn't cut into the foot, oddly enough. I expected it too. In testing bends I bent it farther than what was realistic to see if anything went wonky.

Laurie

Awesome looking shoes Laurie! :)

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

As soon as I get some time (whatever "time" is...lol) I'll finish them and throw em in freestuff.

Laurie

Quote - I'm Old.

I'm fat.

i'm married.

I'm not a prude.

Why is it that everytime I find a flightsuit, Nobel Prize Winner or Aluminum Can Recycler outfit I think I can use it's always got Buttless chaps, nipple clamps or a zipper open down to the curlies?

i'm too old to look like a horndog. At 53... that feces is just creepy and I don't want to be creepy on purpose. It's hard to find clothing for women Characters that doesn't look like it was made by a 14 year old dufus virgin with too much access to Internet Porn.

 

do you want a straight answer from a vendor?

because it doesnt sell.  90% of people using Poser are doing pinups.  the remaining 10% talk a lot about what they want but when a vendor actually comes along and caters to them, 3/4 of them suddenly have excuses as to why they cant buy right now.  so that leaves what, 2.5% of the potential market?

(...although it may make sense for a fledgling vendor to make their name by being one of three people catering to a niche as opposed to competing against thousands of other people making mainstream products.)

as for the whole sexy/idealized pinup theme. who cares?  if thats what makes people happy then more power to them.  listening to people harp on pinup renders for ~11 years now is getting pretty old. 

if you want certain non-mainstream stuff actually made - and made well - then you need to make an effort not to just rant about it in the forums, but to support those merchants that do make it.  because if someone needs to pay the bills and they realize that they can make ten times as much money on a set of skank clear platform heels than they can on a pair of ultra-realistic rockport nursing shoes, why would they make the latter?  i would highly suggest a specific thread such as:

'looking for practical nurse uniform for VickyX, to fit blahblah morphs with blahblah features. i am willing to pay blahblah. here are a couple of examples of what im looking for (post clear photos)'. 

if the thread generates enough interest i guarantee a merchant (or more) will come along and run with it.  but if they make it and 3/4 of the people who asked for it dont even buy it, much less the other 90% of the marketplace, i can also guarantee they will never make anything like it ever again.

*"I think what finally did it for me is when I ran across spanking dresses on one site or another - can't remember where. And all in the name of art..."*

"It's always got Buttless chaps"

 

btw, i am going to release these just for you guys :)

@MacMyers: Try CrossDresser - it's easier to wrap your head around, and doesn't require Poser. 

 

Otherwise? The normal clothing is out there, you just have to look for it. If you don't find what you like, go download a copy of Wings3d (it's free),or Blender (ditto), and make your own outfits. 

Quote - because it doesnt sell.  90% of people using Poser are doing pinups.  the remaining 10% talk a lot about what they want but when a vendor actually comes along and caters to them, 3/4 of them suddenly have excuses as to why they cant buy right now.  so that leaves what, 2.5% of the potential market?

This, right here folks. 

BTW, that horse's bones seem to have turned into powder by now. Anyone got a shovel so we can bury what's left? 

 

[CRANKY OLD MAN]

Well....thank you both for your kind words of wisdom.

1. In the last 4 months I've spent 200+ bucks on Vehicles and weapons here. I just bought 5 scenes/buildings and the Akagi today.

2. I've spent 200+ bucks on other scenes, buildings, Terradomes etc.

3. I bought a 1 year Poserworld membership

4. I bought a 1 year Platinum Daz Membership

5. I'm probably going to get a Prime membership soon.

6. I don't REALLY need your help finding non-horndog content or answering what has become a rhetorical question. Your whining, nonsensical "dead horse" bovine fecal matter has become a "dead horse". I forgot what binds a lot of people to computers to begin with I guess. I'm over it.

I've also spent I dunno how much on Joshua and the gang, Crap at TurboSquid, Runtime, vendors, and stuff from Mr. Sparky/Poserworld, Bazze's F16, 9mbi, the 3dmodelstore, Digital Creations, Schell's Armourworks, CG Textures, and I don't remember who else. I've donated 5-15 bucks here and there to Share CG Artists that I like.

I'm pretty new to this though I've bought some Daz stuff for DS and Carrara 8 Pro over the years before I had the free time I have now. So sorry if I've dredged up your dead horse again. I'm just surprised that that anyone needs 2975 iterations of the same stupid slut outfit. I guess it never occured to me that there were that many people who's sex lives apparently exsist only in Poser. I guess that most people are weirder than I thought. Maybe my interest in Cars and WWII is weird.

I'm not into fantasy, bondage machines, Poser Porn and the like but I don't really care if other people are. It was just kind of a surprise to me that butt floss was so important to so many people. Excuse the feces out of me.

It may be the market but I bet most people (mostly guys no doubt) don't let anyone know how much they live it.

So you just keep crankin' it out and I'll buy from other people.

Thanks ever-so-much.

[/CRANKY OLD MAN]

 

            “So, roll me further B_t__h!”

"I don't REALLY need your help finding non-horndog content"

then why start yet another thread about it?

 

"I'm just surprised that that anyone needs 2975 iterations of the same stupid slut outfit. I guess it never occured to me that there were that many people who's sex lives apparently exsist only in Poser."

my sex life is quite healthy, thanks.  but what exactly are you trying to imply? that unless people exclusively post 'BBW Vicky in Train Conductor's Outfit' type renders theyre somehow repressed sexually? LOL

art tends to capture the aesthetically appealing, an ideal, fantasy, etc. im surrounded by enough mundane crap IRL to waste hours recreating it in 3D.  the key difference is that im not going to start a thread about it and rag on what you choose to do in your free time.  theres no reason the two preferences cant coexist without having to read thread after thread of judgemental BS implying that theyre sexually repressed 14 year olds for posting a pinup.

Quote - "I think what finally did it for me is when I ran across spanking dresses on one site or another - can't remember where. And all in the name of art..."

"It's always got Buttless chaps"

 

btw, i am going to release these just for you guys :)

Whatever Dude.

I was surprised..... that's why I asked the question. I'm not surprised anymore. I live in the real world.

Nice to meet the face behind the butt floss.

 

 

Oh... and I never said you were 14 years old.

 

            “So, roll me further B_t__h!”

no problem, glad i could help.

thanks for intelligently refuting my arguments and not resorting to childish personal insults/insinuations.

You're welcome. Thanks for regurgitating "Internet Arguing for Dummies" and trying to pass it off as original thought.....

 

Done.

 

            “So, roll me further B_t__h!”

....aaand, you're still open to make your own goods at any time. Just like the merchies are.

Saves all the shouting, and the results can be passed around. 

Seriously, this is nothing to get all constipated about (hey, if we're doing a fecal theme, why not?)

The argument has been around since the dawn of time, and yet the ducats still decide that pr0n is (wait for it...) still king. Given that we're online, this really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. 

If I don't find what I want or need, I make it. Takes a lot more time, but it works and I can always re-use it, or just pass it around for fun.

I didn't see any reference in your rants to http://poserclub.jp, but I do know that you can find a metric shitload (oop, there we go again) of ordinary clothing there, all for the grand price of $0.00 Oh, and don't fret over the Kanji text... the Chrome browser will happily translate it well enough to read and understand.

So, err, what was all the shoutng about again? Assless chaps? At least it's easier to take a dump in 'em if you ever get the squirts.

 

incidentally we share the same interests. i love antique/milsurp firearms, classic cars, etc. thing is, if i spent a couple weeks modeling a down-to-the-last-bolt accurate, articulated Mosin Nagant 1891/30 sniper rifle complete with cartridges/stripper clips, ERC sling, high-res textures and advanced shaders, 5 people would buy it.  for $5.  if im lucky.  in half that time i could model a corset for vicky and it would be a top seller.

90% of people just dont care because its a niche interest. of the remaining 10%, many either cant tell the difference between that and the 400 poly one in freestuff, or just dont care, or think that everything should be in freestuff. 'why would i spend $5 on that when theres one in freestuff already?'.
and if they dont care, can i blame them? no. you could spend months making the world's greatest 3D fire truck for poser and it would be of absolutely no interest to me.

i do, actually, model niche stuff in my free time. as a hobby, because i know ill never make any money from it.  im currently modeling an accurate articulated 1875 Schofield Cavalry model revolver that noone but me and perhaps 5 other people are going to give a flying f*ck about.

but for my store, since im not independantly wealthy, i make what people want to buy.
as for what i render in my personal time, why do you even care? if you want to render practical things, great - ive always fully supported your right to do so.  ive never started a 'whats with all these damned practical renders' thread, and i dont think anyone else has either.

ive actually given you honest advice from a vendor perspective as to what to do to encourage vendors to make niche products but youre more concerned about just standing on a soap box insulting 90% of this site's userbase to even consider it.

make your own.

 

I gave up years ago on seeing anything I can use - flight uniforms that are actually worn, period clothing thats actually from the period, etc.

so I've been slowly learning to model my own clothing as I want it (I normally model rooms and other non organics).

simplier in the long run.

"im currently modeling an accurate articulated 1875 Schofield Cavalry model revolver that noone but me and perhaps 5 other people are going to give a flying fck about. "*

make that 4 remaining to be found...

Oh my fucking god MacMyers...what the hell is the big problem? Geeze, don't be so damn testy. No one stepped on ur damn foot for crying out loud. Blackhearted was just voicing the market as HE sees it - from a vendors perspective. He wasn't trying to be a jerk.

Take Khai's advice and make the clothes you want. I had to do the very same. At least I'm learning a lot in the process.

Laurie

Sadly I have to agree with Blackhearted on this. I've made several sets of ordinary styled clothing, jeans and a shirt, shoes etc. for various figures. The first set I madewere Jans and a shirt for his GND2 character, and the first comment I got on it was "Nice set but would have been better if the pants zipper worked".

I sold these sets at or below the average.

I made one short mini-dress outfit, and on advice, made the textures some what racey, latex and vaguely see thru and raised the pricing slightly. Guess which one sold better?

Honestly, I feel better making more ordinary clothing (or less slutwear, if you will) but it just doesn;t sell as well. If you are making this stuff for sale to a mass market you have to offer what the masses are willing to pay for.

One andwer might be to be specific in your needs and contact merchants whose work you like and offer to PAY for them to create a specific clothing.

Put an ad up in the Jobs/Resume forum for contact with someone willing to take on the commision, and be specific in what you are looking to buy. It probably won;t be cheap but if they also think it might sell a few copies in their stores, they might cut you a break on the costs.

You can also post requests in the market place wishing well forum and see if others chime in, it might make a merchant try the clothing

You are a member at PoserWorld, they have a request forum over there, have you tried that?

I'm also sure there are other avenues you can explore to find what you want. In my experience posting a thread just to complain about the type of clothing seen in the market place is only going to lead to an arguement with vendors that are tired of being the target of rants like these. 

A person doing this for money is going to make what sells, doesn;t necesarrily mean they like it, just means that this is what puts money in their pockets and food on the table. If the market shifts and understated street clothing becomes the best sellers I'm sure most, if not all, of the vendors would shift to making that. Merchants don;t create that direction the morket goes in, they follow it.

Quote - Merchants don't create that direction the morket goes in, they follow it.

For the most part - and in the context of this discussion, I'll have to agree. It's a sad truth about the nature of the Poser artist and - leaving myself wide open for flames here - might account at least in part for the disdain non-Poser 3D professionals view us with. :blink:

Nothing to be done. 9mbi has a ton of stuff and so does PoserWorld... it's mostly stuff you'd see on the street:maybe not today (9mbi's fashion sense appears to be stuck in the '80s - I can almost smell the nylon acetate of the dresses) but it's not designed to be enticing.

Poserdom is a small part of the greater 3D world, as copious as the amount of content available to Poser artists must seem. Something to keep in mind.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

For the sake of accuarcy, Wardrobe Wizard 2, avaialble from PhilC's site, comes with a stand alone version that can be used without Poser, as well as a plugin (for users of Poser before P8). I think it is for PC only.

The stand alone version does not at this time handle weight-map transfers, but that can be done by the WW2 version in Poser 9 and Poser Pro 2012.

For those who are interested in content that does not succumb to the normative skimpiness, try PoserWord.com. This site has a lot of the more ordinary cloths likely to be seen worn by real people everyday. The site specializes in this and has a different business model. It is worth a look.

lmk

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Thanks for all, especially the vendor input. Just want to add,there are always new people coming aboard, and issues that are old hat to you "old timers" aren't to us. Please try to be patient with us. Beside, sometime, rehashing an old issue yields a new approach.

I just purchased the V4 and Antonia files for WW. I haven't gotten to the point of making clothes yet. Will be working on that eventually. So much to learn and do, so little time. Thanks again for an interesting and informative discussion.

Glad to see the thread getting back on track.  I certainly didn't intend this as an attack on any vendor.  As it is, BH is absolutely right.  

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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The business model of asking a vendor to custom make an item is, imho, a very valid one. I've done this a number of times.

In several cases, the vendor was willing to make the piece, but didn't think it had any commercial value. In those cases, I paid around $150 for each of the items. Yes, it was a goodly price. Yes, I use those items quite often, so it was worth it. It was a pittance against the 8-10K I've already spent on other Poser materials.

In several other cases, the vendor took what I wanted as a suggestion, and I actually got it for free for suggesting something that wound up making her some money!

Then there is the hybrid, underway right now, where the vendor is willing to make the piece for sale as long as I pay a premium for the first one.

Last but not least, one VERY kind lady here in this thread was willing to make a tee shirt that I needed for free. There really are nice people left in the world. You can find a number of them mentioned in the above list of vendors and modellers.

It all comes down to how bad do you want the item. As you can see... if I want something very badly, I'm willing to make it worth someone's while to model it.

As to learning to do it myself... I dunno. I've looked at every modeling program that's been recommended here, and they all seem far, far over my head. (And I'm not stupid... I hold multiple degrees in disciplines as diverse as electronics to psychology!) Perhaps it takes a brain wired in a certain way to be able to understand modelling. Perhaps I've just yet to find the right teacher.

At any rate, I think the community should consider commissions as a valid way to get niche content made. It's fair to everyone involved.

My $.02

regarding commissions:
few experienced vendors are going to make an entire quality conforming outfit, character/textures, set, etc for a couple hundred bucks.  quality work takes time, and even if you only pay them minimum wage its still going to add up. unfortunately this puts quality commissions out of the reach of most hobbyists.

but i can suggest two 'business models' that could potentially work out well for all involved:

1. get some people together and do a group commission. start a thread on it in the wishing well and drum up support, get others to donate, and you can raise a lot more money for a commission than otherwise. a mere twenty interested people contributing $25 is already $500. a thread where you are offering a fixed amount of cash for a certain product is going to get a more serious response than 'oh, i wish someone would make blahblah for poser'.

2. do a 'partial commission'. by this i mean that you are not demanding full exclusive rights to the final product, and afterwards the vendor can put it in their own store and sell it. so you are paying a fee to basically 'hijack' a vendor's direction. you get what you want made, you get creative input, and you get it before anyone else.... but once its done, the vendor can then put it in their store to recover the rest of its development costs. many vendors would be open to this type of arrangement, but again the less marketable a product is the more incentive youll likely have to give them. 

aah you mean a Kickstarter idea?

infact... you could use Kickstarter for it anyway

Quote -

2. do a 'partial commission'. by this i mean that you are not demanding full exclusive rights to the final product, and afterwards the vendor can put it in their own store and sell it. so you are paying a fee to basically 'hijack' a vendor's direction. 

 

This wouldn't be a bad idea at all, and I suspect that the folks stumping the initial cash wouldn't mind or care either way if it got sold commercially afterwards. 

"Last but not least, one VERY kind lady here in this thread was willing to make a tee shirt that I needed for free. There really are nice people left in the world. You can find a number of them mentioned in the above list of vendors and modellers."

i'll gladly help make basic items/objects for people for free.

the problem is that most of the time ive done it, the person wants everything spoon-fed to them and is usually unwilling to take any time/initiative to learn any of the aspects of content creation themselves.

this is how it usually goes, at least in my experience:

 

'i need a model of an M1 Abrams tank'

me: 'i happen to have one i made in my spare time (weeks of time invested), you can have it if you like'

'oh, thanks'

me: 'ill need your email'

'blahblah@ispprovidermail.com'

me: i go through my backup folders, dig up the tank, UV map it, .zip it.  after trying 3 times to send the 12 meg file, first in one part, then in two 6 meg parts, then in three 4 meg parts because the guys email only takes <4 meg attachments, i finally send it.

'hi i got it. but what is this .rar file? i dont know what to do with it?'

me: 'www.rarlab.com'

'hi. all i see is a huge list of links. what do i do?'

me: i send a direct link to the winrar file and type out an explanation of how to download/install/use it.

'hi. i got it extracted but all i see is an .obj file. what now?'

me: you import it into poser using import: wavefront .obj and then go to the material room, youll see a list of materials like Turret, Metal, Tracks, Lights, etc and you need to set up materials for them. you can use just basic material colors or you can get fancy with procedural shaders.

'oh. i dont know how to do that'

me: googles 'heres a link to some material room tutorials'

'this is all very confusing, can you just set up materials like this for me?'

me: i spend a couple hours setting up shaders for the tank. i send the mt5 file.

'i got the file, thanks. what do i do with it?'

me: explains

'i got it loaded, thanks. but the turret doesnt rotate. i need it to rotate all the way around for the render im making'

me: googles here is a link that explains how to rig simple objects in poser.

'that is so confusing. could you give me a step by step?'

me: does the rigging for him, sends him the new file

'hi i got the file. what do i do with it?'

me: explains

'i got it working, thanks. this is good, but the treads dont move. and id really like it to have the 11th armored cav markings, and some battle damage on the left front? i need that for my render'

 

 

i sh*t you not this is how nearly every free item ive given away has went.  people want everything spoonfed to them. if you want something for free, please be prepared to use google and the site search function to find the answers to simple questions such as how to import an .obj, how to use the material room, how to make simple decals in photoshop, etc.

I dunno, I give away gobs of free stuff and I've gotten few real questions about how it's to be used.  The dumb or lazy questions I pretty much ignore though.  In your example, at the point of the "how do I unpack a .rar file" the conversation would be over.

My Freebies

Quote - In several other cases, the vendor took what I wanted as a suggestion, and I actually got it for free for suggesting something that wound up making her some money!

This is pretty much the only way I'd consider taking a commission, yeah.

My Freebies

Quote - I dunno, I give away gobs of free stuff and I've gotten few real questions about how it's to be used.  The dumb or lazy questions I pretty much ignore though.  In your example, at the point of the "how do I unpack a .rar file" the conversation would be over.

 

i guess i just need to learn to say 'im sorry, i am too busy right now to _____'.

Quote - I dunno, I give away gobs of free stuff and I've gotten few real questions about how it's to be used.  The dumb or lazy questions I pretty much ignore though.  In your example, at the point of the "how do I unpack a .rar file" the conversation would be over.

You know it. And in a hurry...lol. I don't give support for freebies period. If someone has the odd question that I already know the answer to, I'll answer it, but I won't really go out of my way. After all, the item was free and they can even use it commercially. I have however gotten bitched at for not making a FREE item DS compatible. Kinda makes ya wanna not give things away, don't it? ;).

Laurie

I really hope the people appreciate the support you give to your freebies. If they are half the quality of your sold products, they would still be great. 

The discussion about people aren't gratefull enough when it comes to freebies isn't new. There are some people who pulled their freebies because they got complains about them, or felt that they did not get enough positive and thankfull feedback. 

A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori. 

Quote -
i guess i just need to learn to say 'im sorry, i am too busy right now to _____'.

 

No shit - I usually tell them to RTFM at the point where they ask what a .rar is.

Oh hell, who am I kidding? I usually point 'em to Archibase or a similar site long before that. I think I can count only one time I've given away something that was requested... it was a quickie vagina morph I cooked up for the original Alexa figure, done mostly for giggles.

Quote - After all, the item was free and they can even use it commercially. I have however gotten bitched at for not making a FREE item DS compatible. Kinda makes ya wanna not give things away, don't it? ;).

Laurie

Man I know all about it. I even got DS3 and DS4 to do just that. Then I got griped at because they couldn't apply the DS3 shader in DS4. I gave up and said that's it. You are on your own. I use Poser not DS. Get someone else to do a shader/texture for you.

Everyone wants to be an instant artist. Get creative. Learn to do more than push a button. My grandkids no longer need to be spoon fed. You shouldn't either.

Sorry to get off topic. I'll fade back into the darkness now.

pdg

Quote - I really hope the people appreciate the support you give to your freebies. If they are half the quality of your sold products, they would still be great. 

The discussion about people aren't gratefull enough when it comes to freebies isn't new. There are some people who pulled their freebies because they got complains about them, or felt that they did not get enough positive and thankfull feedback. 

Well, I'm not gonna pull freebies for a few grumps ;). It sorta takes the shine off of making new ones tho.

Laurie

Funny bit of trivia: One of the very very few times I got a straight complaint about something I'd done was for a commercial item - from someone who had pirated it.  What made the guy think it was a good idea to contact me I've no idea.

My Freebies

Quote - Funny bit of trivia: One of the very very few times I got a straight complaint about something I'd done was for a commercial item - from someone who had pirated it.  What made the guy think it was a good idea to contact me I've no idea.

There's an idiot in every group ;).

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - Funny bit of trivia: One of the very very few times I got a straight complaint about something I'd done was for a commercial item - from someone who had pirated it.  What made the guy think it was a good idea to contact me I've no idea.

There's an idiot in every group ;).

Laurie

Almost makes me believe kawecki's sig line.  Almost. 

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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From time to time this same topic/issue comes up.

Been that way since I first joined renfro, a long, long long time ago, in a galaxy that's well not so far away.

 

Yet when merchants, hobbyists etc...come along, and are willing to model "real world" cloths, and worse yet, have the gall to actually try and make some small profit by selling them in the various MP's out there, they get zero support from the community.

Lets face it folks, it's the T&A that sells, so it'll be the T&A products that get made simple as that really.

"The Blood is the life!"

 

Oh, p.s. Yes I AM a prude, and proud of it!

"The Blood is the life!"