ProudApache opened this issue on Nov 10, 2011 · 114 posts
ProudApache posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 7:17 AM
I went to visit DAZ this morning and they have a link on their home page devoted to Poser content. That is pretty cool!
cspear posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 7:20 AM
I think they must be missing us... or at least our money!
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Glitterati3D posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 7:46 AM
ROFL, just the money, no doubt.
Bwahahahahahahahahaha, it reeks of desperation.
LaurieA posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 8:10 AM
Eek.
Laurie
Jules53757 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 8:21 AM
As I always sayd, Money makes the world go 'round and the small base of D|S users is not enough to keep the business running.
The next thing, be ensured, will be a V5 that also works in Poser.
Ulli
"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"
nobodyinparticular posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 8:24 AM
Perhaps they are reminding us that despite rumors to the contrary, they do still sell items for Poser users. I never have used Daz studio, but found a lot of useful items there. Probably half my runtime. Still have a number on my wishlist.
MistyLaraCarrara posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 8:54 AM
80 gb, Daz and RMP, mostly Daz.
my P7 is on a 100gb hard drive partition. only 18gbs left.
I'm still installing to P7 library. PP12 runtime is only what Poser comes with.
♥ My Gallery Albums ♥ My YT ♥ Party in the CarrarArtists Forum ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff
Lzy724 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 9:08 AM
Quote - Perhaps they are reminding us that despite rumors to the contrary, they do still sell items for Poser users. I never have used Daz studio, but found a lot of useful items there. Probably half my runtime. Still have a number on my wishlist.
I have tons on my list too, however, everything lately has been genesis related releases. Oh well, thats ok, saves me moolah.
willyb53 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 9:35 AM
Well I have been a PC member for years, and that will end when it expires. I live in Texas so I have to pay sales tax when i buy there. I visit there daily, check the forums and new releases. I have not bought anything this year that my monthly voucher + the vouchers they provide have not covered the cost, but I still have to pay the sales tax.
Any vendors that sell exclusivly there are effectivly off of my buy list.
Bill
People that know everything by definition can not learn anything
JenX posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 9:41 AM
AHEM
Feel free to discuss, just let's make sure it's not site-fightey ;)
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willyb53 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 9:53 AM
??? not trying to start a fight.
We were talking about the DAZ site.
Anything I buy there costs me 8.5% more than any other site.
If you are not a Texas resident that does not affect you. It does enter into any purchase choices for me. If a vendor sells at both DAZ and Rendo I will buy at rendo. Has nothing to do with DAZ bad/Rendo good. Has to do with cheaper.
Bill
People that know everything by definition can not learn anything
cspear posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 10:14 AM
I'm sure the mods' spider senses are tingling at the prospect of yet another boring DAZ vs Poser 'discussion'.
I observe, however, that I haven't bought a thing from DAZ for about 6 months, partly due to a lack of compatibility with Poser, partly because they're not producing stuff that I want, and partly because their installers are a confused and annoying mess.
If they're readjusting their focus as far as Poser users are concerned, for whatever reason, it's a positive thing.
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JenX posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 10:17 AM
Quote - I'm sure the mods' spider senses are tingling at the prospect of yet another boring DAZ vs Poser 'discussion'.
This is most of it. My post was a friendly reminder to KEEP it friendly :)
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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it
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lkendall posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 10:25 AM
I will observe that there is a big difference between Poser ready, and Poser compliant. A difference that I hope will become readily apparent in the very near future. :)
lmk
Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.
paganeagle2001 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 10:32 AM
Waiting for this one to appear at a certain site!!! LOL.
Come back Poser users, all is forgiven. Don't forget to bring your money with you.
All the best.
LROG
Who honors those we love for the very life we live?, Who sends monsters to kill us?, and at the same time sings that we will never die., Who teaches us whats real?, and how to laugh at lies?, Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?, Who chains us?, and Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You!, You have all the weapons you need., Now Fight!
imax24 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 11:15 AM
They're still posting new stuff for V4 over there, as well as props, poses, hair etc. that work in Poser. But there's no doubt that more and more of the new stuff is for Genesis, as you would expect.
My Platinum Club membership doesn't expire until Feb 2013. I bought it for $69.95 mostly because it came with a $30 instant voucher and another $72 worth of monthly vouchers through the year, plus the PC discounts. I always find at least one thing every month worth applying the $6 voucher toward, but I admit it's getting harder. By Feb 2013 it will be clear whether the ratio of non-Genesis product is worth having a PC membership.
mihoshi1de posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 11:28 AM
I never enter from the front page so I haven't sen; I enter from the forums. I think it's good to remind us they still sell Poser stuff. :) Their PA sale this year had me wondering if it is only DS and Genesis and V5 from now on...
Glitterati3D posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 11:28 AM
One has to wonder if they are starting to remember to "dance with the one that brung ya."
BTW, Jack Tomalin's new product isn't exclusive to DAZ. He's selling it on his site as well.
randym77 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 11:42 AM
Interesting phrasing on that banner: "ready to use Poser models." I guess that makes Genesis "not ready to use Poser models." ;-)
I still buy at DAZ if they have stuff I want. I even renewed my PC membership this month. Might be for the last time, though. It's not just Genesis; they're talking about making big changes to the PC in terms of pricing, etc.
But I agree about their horrible installers. They're constantly changing; some require a lot of effort to install into Poser. Even the ones that work are a pain. So many screens. Do you want to install an uninstaller. This item is protected by copyright. Do you agree to our terms? Poser or DAZ Studio (but only DAZ Studio works for me, even with Poser). Specify a path or pick from our list. Etc. It's very tedious if you're installing a bunch of stuff.
willyb53 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 11:44 AM
Quote - One has to wonder if they are starting to remember to "dance with the one that brung ya."
BTW, Jack Tomalin's new product isn't exclusive to DAZ. He's selling it on his site as well.
Which, for me, means he is selling 8.5% cheaper than DAZ.
Bill
People that know everything by definition can not learn anything
DAZ_kevin posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 12:49 PM
Glad you all noticed the reminder. We certainly want Poser users to know we have not abandoned them at all. Never did, never planned to, never even thought about it.
In fact, if you look at this current PA sale, of the 21 featured items, only 4 are Genesis/DAZ Studio only. We are being extremely careful to make sure we are still providing great content for those who are using Poser. It is difficult to make sure that message goes out loud and clear when so many seem intent on spreading rumors, lies and other misinformation. In an effort to counteract that, we are increasing our efforts to remind Poser users that DAZ is still the best place to find the best content for the best models from the best artists.
Obviously we will continue to provide cutting edge content for the award winning Genesis, and there is a stong demand for Genesis content (and if you have not taken the opportunity to DL the free version of DAZ Studio and give Genesis a test drive to see what all the excitement is about, you really should-- there is a reason the industry experts selected it as the innovation of the year), but that does not, in any way mean we have abandoned Poser, poser users, or those who simply are more comfortable with the older figures.
Anyway... thank you for noticing our message to poser users. Hoepfully this will help calm some of those crying, bemoaing and perpetuating the myth that DAZ is abandoning, cutting off, or disassociating with Poser users.
SnowSultan posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 12:57 PM
LOL, are you kidding me? My posts were removed?
I better never, EVER hear anyone complaining about DAZ supposedly censoring anyone in their forums again.
SnowS
my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/
I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.
LaurieA posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 12:59 PM
JenX posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 1:00 PM
The rule goes both ways, folks. No DAZ Bashing, and no bashing folks that are simply voicing their opinions. If you can't respect that people have opinions, then please find some other community that will allow you to act in such a manner.
Kevin, thank you for coming in and clarifying. It's refreshing when we have information that comes right from the source.
Jeni
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LaurieA posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 1:00 PM
Quote - LOL, are you kidding me? My posts were removed?
I better never, EVER hear anyone complaining about DAZ supposedly censoring anyone in their forums again.
SnowS
They only remove posts if you're shit-stirring. 
And if someone mentions it you'll do what then? I'm tired of all of it - from both sides.
Laurie
JenX posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 1:00 PM
SnowSultan, please check your sitemail.
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SnowSultan posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 1:03 PM
"They only remove posts if you're shit-stirring."
I was not shit-stirring, I was complaining about the DAZ-bashing. I would hope that stating my opinion, even if unpopular here, is still allowed.
my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/
I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.
JenX posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 1:04 PM
If you wish to share your opinion, please do so without attacking those who are doing the same.
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DAZ_kevin posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 1:06 PM
I hope this also helps dispell some of the DAZ vs. RMP rumors as well, as I know some of those have been stirring up too. Just to state DAZ's postion: We love Renderosity, love working with everyone at Renderosity and look forward to many years of working together with Renderosity.
Quote - Kevin, thank you for coming in and clarifying. It's refreshing when we have information that comes right from the source.
Jeni
JenX posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 1:12 PM
Same here, Kevin! We're doing our best to allow open conversation on BOTH sides of the fence, while remembering that we not only all have our own, sometimes differing opinions, they are never a reason to attack anyone, singly or in a group.
I moderate both Renderosity's Poser and DAZ|Studio forums, so it's not like I'm showing preferential treatment...it's just that these threads don't happen in the DS forum. Someone asks the pros/cons of the programs, and people give them. There is no attacking, no riled up attitudes. Just simple facts.
Jeni
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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it
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paganeagle2001 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 1:37 PM
One rule for all.
All the best.
LROG
Who honors those we love for the very life we live?, Who sends monsters to kill us?, and at the same time sings that we will never die., Who teaches us whats real?, and how to laugh at lies?, Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?, Who chains us?, and Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You!, You have all the weapons you need., Now Fight!
wolf359 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 2:38 PM
"Bwahahahahahahahahaha, it reeks of desperation."
LOL!! how is it "desperation" to sell Content to a Diverse customer base ( brycers, Carrara users,hexgon user,poser users)
its not all about nekkid V-chicks for some of us.
I still user DAZ's high quality "poser" stuff from Stonemason in My animation work.
I am glad that Daz Still actually offers high quality poser content& props available right now.
instead of Vague promises & Declarations about phantom future products in ridiculous 80 point typeface
in their forum signatures.
Cheers
paganeagle2001 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 2:49 PM
And just think of al those that bought the V4M4 shapes that are given away on the dvd of the December issue of ImagineFX!!
Wait a few months and then V5 will be on the DVD of every 3D magaine.
A certain site has realised that Studio alone products do not bring in the money.
All the best.
LROG
Who honors those we love for the very life we live?, Who sends monsters to kill us?, and at the same time sings that we will never die., Who teaches us whats real?, and how to laugh at lies?, Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?, Who chains us?, and Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You!, You have all the weapons you need., Now Fight!
JenX posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 2:58 PM
To be fair, just because an item is available free on a disc doesn't automatically downgrade their quality or worth.
I've purchased SEVERAL discs from 3DWorld, 3DArtist, 3DCreative, ImagineFX, and more. I usually purchase for the content of the magazines, and see the content as a bonus. I've gotten a lot of discs that have items that I've already purchased or wouldn't have purchased on their own. I think the only exception was a copy of Carrarra (I don't remember which version, it was 2 years ago), but that was after the next version had already come out in the store at DAZ. That doesn't mean that, because I paid $15US for the magazine and got the software that everyone who paid more got screwed over. DAZ, and other content providers, sometimes pay money to be included in the discs, and it's simply a form of advertisement to them. Those discs have included several of vendors from our own store, as well.
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paganeagle2001 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 3:04 PM
Still less money to the company and as they have found, they need still needPoser users to bring in the money.
All the best.
LROG
Who honors those we love for the very life we live?, Who sends monsters to kill us?, and at the same time sings that we will never die., Who teaches us whats real?, and how to laugh at lies?, Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?, Who chains us?, and Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You!, You have all the weapons you need., Now Fight!
JenX posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 3:06 PM
shrug That's just speculation. I don't have DAZ's books in front of me, but, I would suppose that a company that is hurting for money wouldn't advertise their product by giving it away, they'd do everything they can to utilize word-of-mouth.
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paganeagle2001 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 3:11 PM
but, I would suppose that a company that is hurting for money wouldn't advertise their product by giving it away, they'd do everything they can to utilize word-of-mouth.
It's done very day in the busines world, compaines still keep selling right up until they are declared bankrupt. Often givong away products as they go.
All the best.
LROG
Who honors those we love for the very life we live?, Who sends monsters to kill us?, and at the same time sings that we will never die., Who teaches us whats real?, and how to laugh at lies?, Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?, Who chains us?, and Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You!, You have all the weapons you need., Now Fight!
JenX posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 3:12 PM
Well, do me a favor. Until you know for SURE, why not keep the speculation out of threads like this. They can quickly turn to libel, and that's not good for anyone.
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paganeagle2001 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 3:14 PM
I have not gone against the TOS, so there is no need for that type of attitude.
I have answered in a cival way to a qustion you asked.
All the best.
LROG
Who honors those we love for the very life we live?, Who sends monsters to kill us?, and at the same time sings that we will never die., Who teaches us whats real?, and how to laugh at lies?, Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?, Who chains us?, and Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You!, You have all the weapons you need., Now Fight!
RawArt posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 3:18 PM
Quote - Still less money to the company and as they have found, they need still needPoser users to bring in the money.
All the best.
LROG
LOL...I don't think DAZ ever said they don't need the poser users, and they never stopped catering to poser users either.
They still highly encourage us PA's develop for both programs, as they are still activly marketing poser products along with d/s products.
There really is no division, there is just seperate product lines for those who want them.
I really dont understand why there are conspiracy stories started, because they really make no sense.
ProudApache posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 3:19 PM
My intentions in creating this thread was to let people know that DAZ has a section on their web site specifically for Poser users. I didn't mean to make it another DAZ/Poser debate. I believe that both companies (Smith Micro and DAZ) will work together and provide the best content for both communities.
JenX posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 3:22 PM
Quote - I have not gone against the TOS, so there is no need for that type of attitude.
I have answered in a cival way to a qustion you asked.
All the best.
LROG
I have simply asked that you not continue down that line of thinking. No attitude involved, just a request.
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Ragtopjohnny posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 3:56 PM
All I know is, I got my Michael 4 Complete finally after being on sale for half off -- good to not use an incomplete "base" figure.
They are a bit pricey, and hardely ever any sales. That's why I love here - great products, prices, and customer service. A win/win situation!
Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/
PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.
imax24 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 4:34 PM
Quote - They are a bit pricey, and hardely ever any sales.
This isn't the place to pitch for DAZ, but they do have sales. New products are typically 30% off for an introductory period. Platinum Club (their version of Prime Club) members see a discount of their own.
I grant you, the "regular" price at DAZ can be a bit steep at times compared to a similar product here. But then a few vendors at Rendo don't seem to follow prevailing market prices, either.
As people told me over at DAZ, if I think $14.95 for a simple halter top is steep (plus another 8.95 if I want a nice selection of textures), I should visit some of the "pro" sites and be prepared to pick my jaw off the floor.
We often forget that vendors have to pay anywhere from 30% to 50% of each sale to the host site. And, like DAZ, there is usually an introductory discount. Some of us hardly ever buy anything unless it's discounted or couponed in some fashion. Must be discouraging at times for a vendor, if you must price your item at $9.95 to start with, see it sell for $6.95 at discount, maybe lose another 20% to a coupon, and then pay the site at least 30% of what's left. Consumers forget all that stuff sometimes.
hornet3d posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 4:35 PM
I, like a few others, have cancelled my PC membership at Daz for the sole reason that it was getting increasingly difficult to find something to spend my money on. Nothing to do with me hating Daz, in fact without them I would never have found out about the 3D world and had a play with a free version of Daz. Without that, and finding the fun to be had, I doubt I would have risked so much hard earned cash on Poser.
I use Poser and not Daz but that is just a person choice. I hope Daz continue to prosper and I do still buy from them but on rare occasions. Forgetting the 'G' debate I do think Daz do need to look at the PC benefits, I mean I joined 'Prime' after leaving PC and have found quite it worthwhile so far. I would join PC again if I could see the benefit and I look at the Daz site most days as I do with Rendo. Five years ago my purchases were 100% Daz, two years ago it was about 50/50 with Daz and Rendo with some titles from RDNA. This year it is more like 10-1 in favour of Rendo with the same occasional purchase from RDNA. Although on checking I was surprised to find I have actually purchased more from RDNA than Daz this year. Nothing to do with hating Daz or 'G' for that matter just very little for me spend my money on, could be me that has changed of course, but I am not the only PC member to state they have/ are leaving in regent months.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
moriador posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 5:45 PM
In their zipped/installer forms, my purchases are about 28GB from Daz and 18GB from everywhere else combined. So Daz has been a fine company from whom I've been glad to buy things, and their refund policy is excellent. Before 2011, I made most of my 3D content purchases at their store.
That said, very similar products offered by the same merchants do seem to be significantly cheaper here, and Rendo has lots of sales and coupons. Daz's PC club used to be a major factor in my loyalty to them. But Rendo's Prime came at exactly the right time.
It makes perfect sense to me that Daz would devote a section of their website to Poser content, if for no other reason than to combat the impressions (or dispel the rumours) that they don't create it any more.
My only complaints about their store are that they're far too skimpwear oriented, bizarrely uptight about things such as nipples on Genesis textures, have slow forums largely filled with commercial threads, and their "scavenger-hunt" mentality towards sales sometimes makes finding things needlessly difficult. But there's plenty to like. They're fine. Just a bit pricey and slightly weird.
PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.
scanmead posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 5:56 PM
Just a word on free things in magazines. I got my first taste of Cinema 4D from a magazine freebie. Then the upgrades started, and Maxon made a couple thousand off that one copy. They've done anything but go out of business.
A free V4? Then you need clothes, and hair, and characters, and shoes, maybe even a couple of scenes... It's a proven sales technique, even if the sales aren't all at one business. And it gets the figure into hands that may have never considered using it before.
Janl posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 8:24 PM
Quote - I, like a few others, have cancelled my PC membership at Daz for the sole reason that it was getting increasingly difficult to find something to spend my money on.
Nothing to do with hating Daz or 'G' for that matter just very little for me spend my money on, could be me that has changed of course, but I am not the only PC member to state they have/ are leaving in regent months.
No, you are not alone. I cancelled my PC membership too and buy nothing at Daz these days. I am spending far more here at Renderosity now and I am loving the Prime section. Thanks for some great products and some great deals, Rendo! :)
icprncss2 posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 8:32 PM
Quote - One has to wonder if they are starting to remember to "dance with the one that brung ya."
BTW, Jack Tomalin's new product isn't exclusive to DAZ. He's selling it on his site as well.
That's different. DAZ usually wants exclusivity in sales.
LaurieA posted Thu, 10 November 2011 at 9:10 PM
Quote - BTW, Jack Tomalin's new product isn't exclusive to DAZ. He's selling it on his site as well.
That's new. As far as I know, if you sell at Daz they want you to sell that item nowhere else. Unless they've changed that recently. Sure it wasn't on his site with a link to Daz? AprilYSH does that but hers are links back to the Daz item page.
Laurie
edit: I checked his site. He does sell it thru his site. They must have changed that requirement ;).
JenX posted Fri, 11 November 2011 at 7:41 AM
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JenX posted Fri, 11 November 2011 at 7:41 AM
:glare: stupid double posts.
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LaurieA posted Fri, 11 November 2011 at 8:14 AM
Quote - They've actually always allowed non-exclusivity, it's just WAY less of a hassle to have your item be exclusive. I believe you get a better cut and more customer service, but I don't remember. I can't remember off-hand who else had sold items there on a non-exclusive basis, but it's been done before.
Ah. Well, if there was someone, I don't remember who...lol. Of course, that means nothing :P. I don't remember a lot of things...hehe.
Laurie
Darboshanski posted Fri, 11 November 2011 at 9:00 AM
Was that only for yesterday because today I see nothing about a link to poser stuff?
Penguinisto posted Fri, 11 November 2011 at 9:07 AM
Now this is interesting.
I see they're finally splitting off the Poser stuff and putting it into their own department. Not a bad idea.
JenX posted Fri, 11 November 2011 at 9:08 AM
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LaurieA posted Fri, 11 November 2011 at 11:35 AM
Hehe...love ur avatar Jen, but now ur makin me hungry...lol.
cough Yes..Daz site. It is still on the front page ;).
Laurie
JenX posted Fri, 11 November 2011 at 1:17 PM
LOL
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Darboshanski posted Fri, 11 November 2011 at 7:41 PM
Oh okay. I am not set up to go directly to the front page. When I log into Daz I bypass the front page and go directly to the 3D content page. Since I don't see the front page that much it explains why I missed it.
icandy265 posted Fri, 11 November 2011 at 9:30 PM
As far as DAZ goes, I go there (and here) every single day, and I still see tons of stuff for Poser, and there are even a few characters that work on V4 and Genesis... therefore making it work in both DAZ and Poser.
I am a obsessive Poser user, I have DAZ but never even touched it til about 4 months ago, then I started going through the tutorial closet trying to learn DAZ (not because of Genesis, but because when I eventually open up my own store I want my stuff to work in both Poser and DAZ). I finally learned how to do pretty good renders, not as good as Poser yet, I still need more practice, took me a year to learn Poser so should be a while before I completely learn DAZ... the point is I'm gonna have an open mind, although I think I'm good with staying with V4/M4, they look rather good in DAZ and Poser and that's what all my content is for. :)
P.S: I'm aware this is off topic a bit, but I thought I'd get your opinion on my most recent DAZ render, I want to see what you guys think :) [It's V4 with a custom head morph, and my skin I made...]
Netherworks posted Fri, 11 November 2011 at 9:58 PM
Thanks Kevin!
Agreed Pengy, I actually like the idea of having one or the other filtered out.
Awwww Jen, no fighting??? :P
.
JenX posted Sat, 12 November 2011 at 6:14 AM
Quote - Awwww Jen, no fighting??? :P
If the fight is over who's gonna bring me brownies, I'm down with that. Otherwise, nope :P
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grichter posted Sat, 12 November 2011 at 3:00 PM
Gary
"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"
LaurieA posted Sat, 12 November 2011 at 3:41 PM
JenX posted Sun, 13 November 2011 at 3:01 AM
If it were bunnies vs. brownies, that would be harder. In this case, brownies totally win :P (Sorry, Laurie!)
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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it
into a fruit salad.
grichter posted Sun, 13 November 2011 at 7:20 AM
Pardon the very very old crappy render....Harder? Yes! Proably for 48 or 49 percent of the population! But if that 48 or 49 percent all voted for the bunnies, and can guarantee you the other 51-52 percent would all vote for brownies....I doubt it. Bunnies would win by a cute little tail! :) :thumbupboth:
Gary
"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"
LaurieA posted Sun, 13 November 2011 at 8:42 AM
Quote - If it were bunnies vs. brownies, that would be harder. In this case, brownies totally win :P (Sorry, Laurie!)
JenX posted Sun, 13 November 2011 at 8:22 PM
:lol:
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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it
into a fruit salad.
Netherworks posted Sun, 13 November 2011 at 9:30 PM
KimberlyC posted Sun, 13 November 2011 at 10:34 PM
Quote - *Breaks out the cat pics....
That is an awesome pic :lol: :lol:
_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
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wrpspeed posted Tue, 15 November 2011 at 6:24 AM
... and this is why i don't se the forums very much.....
Digitell posted Fri, 18 November 2011 at 8:50 PM Forum Coordinator
I have D/S but I Use Poser most all the time..EXCEPT ..when I want to compose a cartoon character. D/S does very good cartoon renders and I have yet to find an EASY way to render cartoons in Poser. I do book cover and story illustrations and I have been buying stuff from Daz since 2003 and I still do. I buy stuff from RMP and RDNA and CP all the time. I see no change with Daz really other than it is making new products that are not compatible with Poser "yet". They still have a ton of stuff that can be used in Poser! I love all the 3D store sites and just wish I had more $$ :)
Cheers!
wimvdb posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 7:28 AM
Support for Poser has gone down considerably on the DAZ site. There are more and more products which are not tested with Poser at all - even when they come with MAT poses for Poser. Bump, display and specular map settings are left at default and come out way too strong - almost as if an automatic conversion is taking place. Light and camera settings which are present in the DS version are often not present for Poser.
vilters posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 9:51 AM
Whenever there is a fight between a man and a woman?
The woman leaves the battleground with the house, the car and the kids.
;-)
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
mousso posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 1:16 PM
Quote - Support for Poser has gone down considerably on the DAZ site. There are more and more products which are not tested with Poser at all - even when they come with MAT poses for Poser. Bump, display and specular map settings are left at default and come out way too strong - almost as if an automatic conversion is taking place. Light and camera settings which are present in the DS version are often not present for Poser.
I guess now we understand how DS users felt when content were not tested in DS and they had to tweak everything to make it presentable. I bought some products which were tested in DS (at least thats what the vendor said) but it just looked awful when rendered. Thats why I switched to poser. Only few vendor are competent enough to make decent shaders for both apps.
wimvdb posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 2:19 PM
Quote - I guess now we understand how DS users felt when content were not tested in DS and they had to tweak everything to make it presentable. I bought some products which were tested in DS (at least thats what the vendor said) but it just looked awful when rendered. Thats why I switched to poser. Only few vendor are competent enough to make decent shaders for both apps.
Except that DAZ claims support for Poser in these products - it does NOT say "not supported" or "not tested"
If they would, I would not complain and either change the materials myself or decide not to buy it.
Male_M3dia posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 3:49 PM
Quote - > Quote - I guess now we understand how DS users felt when content were not tested in DS and they had to tweak everything to make it presentable. I bought some products which were tested in DS (at least thats what the vendor said) but it just looked awful when rendered. Thats why I switched to poser. Only few vendor are competent enough to make decent shaders for both apps.
Except that DAZ claims support for Poser in these products - it does NOT say "not supported" or "not tested"
If they would, I would not complain and either change the materials myself or decide not to buy it.
This really sounds more like a personal preference rather than incompatiblity. You can always adjust bump and spec, because some things will look fine to one but not to another. I have to return a really nice outfit for M4 because mesh in the boots explodes when I pose M4 in DS but is fine in Poser. That's what not supported should mean.
wimvdb posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 4:04 PM
Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I guess now we understand how DS users felt when content were not tested in DS and they had to tweak everything to make it presentable. I bought some products which were tested in DS (at least thats what the vendor said) but it just looked awful when rendered. Thats why I switched to poser. Only few vendor are competent enough to make decent shaders for both apps.
Except that DAZ claims support for Poser in these products - it does NOT say "not supported" or "not tested"
If they would, I would not complain and either change the materials myself or decide not to buy it.
This really sounds more like a personal preference rather than incompatiblity. You can always adjust bump and spec, because some things will look fine to one but not to another. I have to return a really nice outfit for M4 because mesh in the boots explodes when I pose M4 in DS but is fine in Poser. That's what not supported should mean.
I disagree completely. In some of the sets I really doubt that it was even rendered and looked at in Poser. The flaws are too obvious not to notice. And yes, I can adjust all the maps, but sometimes it is a LOT of work and if it is supposed to be Poser compatible, I should not have to do this.
But what I was saying originally is that the support for Poser has become less and this is one of the things where it shows.
And in your case - if a product is marketed to be DS compatible, then it should work without exploding and you should inform the creator and return it if it is not fixed.
mrsparky posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 5:22 PM
This really sounds more like a personal preference rather than incompatiblity.
Totally. Vue has a similar issue, by default Vue knocks the highlight up on poser imported models. Maybe because most of the time isn't actually noticeble, yet I've never seen anyone complain about it.
Which kinda makes me ponder the thought is this only raised when someone needs a quick and easy "ready made excuse" to product bash the work of another artist?
Also think it's sometimes a case of expecting too much or 'do it all for me' . As an anology If I bought a ford car I wouldn't expect genric fit all parts to fit without a little tweaking. Yet as poser/studios users we often expect it all.
Which isn't just lazy, but it means we're not learning anything. If we have to occasaionally fix something it means we learn more about our apps which in turn makes us better artists.
wimvdb posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 5:37 PM
I modify textures, materials, lights and whatever all the time - that is not the point.
But if no effort has been done in a product - which claims to be poser compatible - to make it look acceptable and just leave all the nodes at default value, I consider that poor support for Poser.
If you import something designed for another program, I totally agree - it is up to the user to make it look good.
Male_M3dia posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 5:56 PM
Quote - I modify textures, materials, lights and whatever all the time - that is not the point.
But if no effort has been done in a product - which claims to be poser compatible - to make it look acceptable and just leave all the nodes at default value, I consider that poor support for Poser.
If you import something designed for another program, I totally agree - it is up to the user to make it look good.
But once again, this sounds like personal preference as you don't like how the shaders came out. That is not a compatibility problem... the product works, you just don't like the way it looks.
wimvdb posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 6:05 PM
That is your opinion - I have a different one.
In my opinion product should be made to look good in the programs which it claims to support and not have a simple node conversion from one program to the other without any effort to make it look acceptable.
LaurieA posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 6:24 PM
Well, Mr. Sparky...when someone pays money for a commercial product they expect that it will work right out of the box ;). I do agree that ppl aren't learning anything, but that's another matter and not really related to the purchase of a commercial product :).
Laurie
vilters posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 6:33 PM
It is like selling a car in bare metal with some cans of paint, and expect customers to paint it themselves.
And then saying; Hey do not complain, all the parts are there..
Oh yeah, and I like the oil to be IN the engine.Not still in the can.
And the air IN the tires, not around it.
And please do not provide a bucket of coolant.
Put it in the radiator.
Please, thank you.
;-)
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
mrsparky posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 7:50 PM
Male_M3dia and wimvdb - you're both correct and working is the core thing here.
If a product/free says it's 100% for poservuestudio, and it only works in bogware v1, then yes theres a justifiable reason to complain.
But when it says works in whatever that means it loads, all the parts move and stuff and it'll render etc etc, it's done what it said on the tin nothing more. It's not promising anything else. Theres the difference, then a complaint would be unfair.
Poser stuff is designed for poser, studio stuff for studio, so why should we expect stuff to work in other apps without any tweaks?
Ghostofmacbeth posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 8:14 PM
The thing is that what works for one person might not work well for another. Your lighting might be different than the orginal creator, you might like Gamma Correction when the creator might not, you might be rendering close up when the bump was set to look good from a mid range, etc. There are all kinds of variables that are present that have to be factored into if it was "tested in Poser or not." It could have been tested. Just not the way all users might be using it.
wimvdb posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 8:53 PM
I guess this is an endless debate.
I still think that a "Poser compatible" product should pay attention to how it renders in Poser. If it uses a reflection strenght of 100% on almost all materials being wood, marble or wall paper, it is plain wrong. Same goes for displacement and bump setting which are set to 1.5 cm. Light sets which are missing in one program and are present in another program - the lights may have to be adjusted to the users preferences but the position of things like spot and pointlights are usually fixed for any program
If you have to adjust 150 materials on a set of props for simple things like these, it is not a trivial thing to do. Not difficult, just tedious and taking a lot of time which should not be needed.
Some vendors do excellent work and even though I might not agree with their choices, I absolutely appreciate the effort they are doing in making it work in Poser.
There used to be much more attention to things like this in the DAZ store by the quality assurance team. That seems to have gone now
Male_M3dia posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 9:01 PM
Quote - I guess this is an endless debate.
I still think that a "Poser compatible" product should pay attention to how it renders in Poser.
And that's where the personal preference comes into play. It may have been tested and the person that made it as well as the person that tested may have liked how it rendered... yet when you set up the scene and light it, you may have a different opinion of the settings. It is still compatible. If you don't like the way it renders in your scene, then you have to tweak the settings. This is far different than you load a product and it claims to be poser compatitble and a morph doesn't work, or a door in the building will not open, etc. That's when it is truly not compatible. Compatible means it works similarly, not it doesn't look right.
wimvdb posted Sat, 19 November 2011 at 9:14 PM
Quote - > Quote - I guess this is an endless debate.
I still think that a "Poser compatible" product should pay attention to how it renders in Poser.
And that's where the personal preference comes into play. It may have been tested and the person that made it as well as the person that tested may have liked how it rendered... yet when you set up the scene and light it, you may have a different opinion of the settings. It is still compatible. If you don't like the way it renders in your scene, then you have to tweak the settings. This is far different than you load a product and it claims to be poser compatitble and a morph doesn't work, or a door in the building will not open, etc. That's when it is truly not compatible. Compatible means it works similarly, not it doesn't look right.
The examples I gave are plain wrong in Poser. This is not a matter of personal preferences
Coleman posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 1:22 AM
This just reinforces the divide even though it may be an attempt at reconciliation. Pocketbooks and wallets will speak loudest in the end. The whole thing is so unfortunate and could have been avoided.
I never needed to be told WHERE in the store to find content to buy at DAZ until now, apparently.
3anson posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 3:29 AM
to take an example of DAZ QA these days, in their big promo of circus/fair props etc,
the 'Ferris Wheel' and its lights were not even loaded into Poser to try, or if they did the tester/s were told to ignore a BIG issue.
the 'Ferris Wheel Lights' crashed EVERY version of Poser, and the Carrara version crashed Carrara as well!!!.
they have also had a thread going asking for betatesters, only app knowledge required is for DS3/4.
a couple of threads were started about the issue, and several people contacted daz direct about it.
someone made a fix and posted it at sharecg, while it was up, no-one at DAZ told enquirers it was being looked at ( ie, the ones who contacted daz, never got a proper reply) within 2 days of the fix being pulled from sharecg ( by the author) daz staff were in the forums stating that a fix was being produced.
coincidence? i don't think so.
Michael314 posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 3:29 AM
Quote - > Quote - I guess this is an endless debate.
I still think that a "Poser compatible" product should pay attention to how it renders in Poser.
And that's where the personal preference comes into play. It may have been tested and the person that made it as well as the person that tested may have liked how it rendered... yet when you set up the scene and light it, you may have a different opinion of the settings. It is still compatible. If you don't like the way it renders in your scene, then you have to tweak the settings. This is far different than you load a product and it claims to be poser compatitble and a morph doesn't work, or a door in the building will not open, etc. That's when it is truly not compatible. Compatible means it works similarly, not it doesn't look right.
Hello,
the impression of "compatibilty" is subject to a couple of aspects, including Poser version. Of course the lowest level of "compatibility" is that content loads without error messages. Now if we come to "looks right" that is difficult. Early content used the ambient channel to make skin look better. Today we say "wow great - glowing ghosts" and don't buy such crap, because it doesn't look right with all lighting situations. With the newest Poser release and SSS, I would expect proper skin use use that. But then, users of Poser version 8 or below would complain. Danie & Marforno supplied different versions (P4, PP, P5, P6) in their earlier work. That was an excellent level of support, I haven't seen with any other vendor.
Being a bit pessimistic, by "Poser compatibility" I nowaday assume only that I get ".pp2" and ".pz2" files which load without error in Poser. I assume that I can use the textures, but have to create the shaders myself. Of course that also lowers what I'm willing to pay for the product. I don't expect shaders as something I'd pay for (as part of a prop). Different story is buying shader packages, but there it's described for which software and which releases are supported.
Btw, DAZ has a similar issue with Carrara compatibility, so it's not a fight of "DAZ vs. anyone else", it also exists in their own universe. In this case however, Carrara compatibility is quoted in the product pages only if there are Carrara specific (and optimized) shaders supplied.
Best regards,
Michael
alexcoppo posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 4:58 AM
Compatible is not synonymous of designed-for.
E.g. GIMP 2.7.x is compatible with Windows: this means that it does not crash (often), works (most of the time), doesn't kill my Vista installation. At the same time, it still does look funny even with the UI improvements, there is no way I can force it to open maximized (I have to slightly reposition it every time), I had to install a theme for it not to crash when using fonts (what does themes have to do with fonts? quien sabe!).
If I want a designed-for program, I have just to shell 1000+ Euro and get Photoshop for Windows.
In addition, I would like to point out that for NO rendering engine in existence there is a one-to-one translation to another engine which transforms a great looking shader in an identically great looking shader. In every case you can call yourself lucky if the converted shader is a decent starting point; in most cases you don't even try to port shaders, you redo them from scratch (or use native items).
Assembly is required. Batteries are included but you have to recharge them first. Might cause baldness (due to hair ripping).
GIMP 2.7.4, Inkscape 0.48, Genetica 3.6 Basic, FilterForge 3 Professional, Blender 2.61, SketchUp 8, PoserPro 2012, Vue 10 Infinite, World Machine 2.3, GeoControl 2
Male_M3dia posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 5:33 AM
Quote - to take an example of DAZ QA these days, in their big promo of circus/fair props etc,
the 'Ferris Wheel' and its lights were not even loaded into Poser to try, or if they did the tester/s were told to ignore a BIG issue.
the 'Ferris Wheel Lights' crashed EVERY version of Poser, and the Carrara version crashed Carrara as well!!!.
they have also had a thread going asking for betatesters, only app knowledge required is for DS3/4.
a couple of threads were started about the issue, and several people contacted daz direct about it.
someone made a fix and posted it at sharecg, while it was up, no-one at DAZ told enquirers it was being looked at ( ie, the ones who contacted daz, never got a proper reply) within 2 days of the fix being pulled from sharecg ( by the author) daz staff were in the forums stating that a fix was being produced.
coincidence? i don't think so.
Speculation? Definitely. Let's try to have a discussion without too much of this. ;)
I've bought stuff on other sites where items (including here) where an item passed testing, but there were issues when I used it. For instance I've bought a few M4 characters where the nipple was off on the template. It looked fine in the default, but as soon as i moved the nipple dial it came up in the wrong place. But then I simply emailed the vendor with the issue and it was resolved. There's no company is going to give you perfect products every time (see Windows patches for reference)... you just hope the company can give you fixes in a reasonable timeframe.
Tomsde posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 6:40 AM
I keep my PC Membership because some of the discounts are significant and it pays for itself eventually with saved money. I like the new Poser store at Daz, I really don't like studio but I may be forced to install it as more and more things I want will only work properly there. I have had numerous Daz Studio issues over the years, and I'd had every version since the first one except I've not gotten the latest one because I've found past issues very frustrated, including lack of legacy support for add ons I've already purchased.. I also like Poser's lighting system and rendering engine better. At least with the new Poser Store the stuff I buy should work ok in Poser, it makes it unnecessary to wade through all the Genesis stuff.
mrsparky posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 7:15 AM
The thing is that what works for one person might not work well for another.
...I guess this is an endless debate.
Yep and theres also the differences between indivual versions of our programmes to factor in as well.
If you had to make "builds" for each core version, you'd need something like ..5 builds for poser, maybe 5/6 for studio, 2 or 3 for vue.. and thats before considering other apps like Carrara or any future updates.
Which is exactly why my personal approach for products/freebies is to use a baseline "working" standard. I use P4/PP, texture maps only, no shaders, which means it'll always load OK in most apps. Plus I try where possible to ensure materials are sensible, can be easily adjusted or be replaced with a app specfic shader.
OK that does mean the artist might have to tweak a few bits to get the best results for their app. But is that really to much for a user to do? Moreso if a product is labelled say studio and a vue artist wants to use it.
wimvdb posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 7:38 AM
If the product is advertized for Poser you assume that is tested and rendered in Poser and that obvious discrepancies between the Poser and DS version have been removed.
I don't mind tweaking a few bits, but if there are 150 materials, it is another matter.
I have been buying products from DAZ since they split off from Zygote and only in recent months I see this problem occur with some vendors. Maybe a requirement to put at least one promo render in Poser in the DAZ store for Poser compatible products would improve that situation
Tomsde posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 8:14 AM
To be honest all this Poser/Daz compatibility stuff makes my head spin, that's why I've been shopping more and more at other vendors like here and Runtime DNA . It used to be if you wanted professional level content you had to buy from Daz, but that's no longer true. The quality of 3rd party content is now, in most cases just as good as any Daz offers. If there becomes available higher qua,it's 3rd party people for Poser I'd even consider quitting Platinum Club, it looks encouraging with Antonia, now she needs a boyfriend. I wish that the native Poser people were up to Daz standards and that people would make things for them, but they've not.
LaurieA posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 9:00 AM
All this is why I've always said my stuff will work in only Poser....because I won't screw around with a program I don't use. I think if the vendors did just Poser or Daz, that would make things a lot easier for the customer. No questions then.
Laurie
Penguinisto posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 4:30 PM
Quote - I guess this is an endless debate.
I still think that a "Poser compatible" product should pay attention to how it renders in Poser.
Sort of, but not really.
The term "compatible" is the word to focus on. If I buy something software-wise that says "IBM Compatible" (anyone remember that term?), it means that it would load and perform the basics, and to not have any glaring bugs that are experienced across the spectrum.
OTOH, expecting perfection and the exact same results, on a computer that may not even have its monitor color-calibrated? Nope. It's like heating up a microwave dinner and expecting the same bountious over-flowing image of plump vegetables and salisbury steak... or are there still people who expect that?
C'mon - it's the same story if you buy it from DAZ, Renderosity, Content Paradise, RDNA.
They're like IKEA in a way. You see the pretty furniture, but you take home a box containing some sheets of laminated plywood, a bag of screws, and a sheet of instructions. You don't see too many folks bitching and moaning at IKEA if the results don't look like the showroom or suddenly attract bikini-clad nordic chicks, do you?
Penguinisto posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 4:32 PM
Quote - E.g. GIMP 2.7.x is compatible with Windows: this means that it does not crash (often), works (most of the time), doesn't kill my Vista installation.
I think I found your problem, right up there...
LaurieA posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 5:03 PM
ARGH! Vista!! genuflects
Laurie
wimvdb posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 5:33 PM
Quote - > Quote - I guess this is an endless debate.
I still think that a "Poser compatible" product should pay attention to how it renders in Poser.
Sort of, but not really.
The term "compatible" is the word to focus on. If I buy something software-wise that says "IBM Compatible" (anyone remember that term?), it means that it would load and perform the basics, and to not have any glaring bugs that are experienced across the spectrum.
OTOH, expecting perfection and the exact same results, on a computer that may not even have its monitor color-calibrated? Nope. It's like heating up a microwave dinner and expecting the same bountious over-flowing image of plump vegetables and salisbury steak... or are there still people who expect that?
C'mon - it's the same story if you buy it from DAZ, Renderosity, Content Paradise, RDNA.
If an "IBM compatible" machine did not run a piece of IBM compatible software, the customers came screaming back to the dealer who in turn went crazy to the manufacturer. I know, I've been there up close.
I never said I wanted perfectly matched results - that is what you made up. I said I wanted to have POSER compatible results meaning not looking rubbish in any version of Poser.
I do not have these problems with Renderosity, RDNA - they test the product they put in the store for Poser compatibily. Apparently DAZ does not do this and leaves it up to the vendor. Some do an excellent job and some do not even bother to render it.
Tomsde posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 5:48 PM
Well I think it would be too much to ask that a product be fully functional in every version of Poser, because some features weren't available in the past and the shader system changed. They should specify what version of Poser the content will run optimally on. Remember when Poser Figure Artist was out? It essentially was Poser 4 with a new name and vendors were making texture maps for it and the newer version of Poser. What one ended up with was runtimes full of Poser 4 texture maps that did not look optimal. At least the "light" version of Poser is now Poser Debut--which is essentially Poser 8 Stripped of the other Poser rom except for the Pose and Render tabs. I would expect that any new product that Daz has available in it's Poser section would work well with the latest version of Poser--if it didn't I'd be dissapointed.
Penguinisto posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 8:11 PM
Quote -
If an "IBM compatible" machine did not run a piece of IBM compatible software, the customers came screaming back to the dealer who in turn went crazy to the manufacturer. I know, I've been there up close.
Not close enough, I'm afraid... the computer maker would blame the software author, the software author would blame Windows (and DOS before that), and/or the hardware (you didn't have enough RAM, your CPU isn't fast enough, you're using a Memory Stacker, your version of Windows or DOS was wrong, it's some TSR's** fault, etc). The OS maker would take a complete hands-off approach, and nobody would take responsibility. The only thing you could hope for would be the responsible party (whoever that was) to get a bad reputation and lose business.
By the way: Read a EULA (End User License Agreement) sometime... you'll still find it in there where software makers aren't responsible for anything but (maybe) a defective floppy or CD-ROM, which they would replace free of charge.
**TSR = "Terminate and Stay Resident", or basically any application that rremained suspended in RAM when not directly called - common way before the age of multitasking and threading.
I've been in that particular biz for far too long, and I very much know better. ;)
Quote - I never said I wanted perfectly matched results - that is what you made up. I said I wanted to have POSER compatible results meaning not looking rubbish in any version of Poser.
Quick - define "not looking rubbish". Bad lighting can make a perfect mesh look like crap. Bad camera angles can destroy a certain facial expression. Fact is, you cannot place an objective definition on compatibility beyond loading and being free from obvious defects (reversed normal, misaligned texture, etc).
Quote - I do not have these problems with Renderosity, RDNA
You may not, but others certainly have. I pointed out some rather famous examples a few years ago... the thread that did so was deleted outright here, a similar one managed to hang on for awhile at RDNA before getting locked, and the other, longest one may still be archived at the old PoserPros site. Many merchies went predictably ballistic. I received more than a few threats, flames, and other tear/rage-filled missives in reply. I also received a larger number of messages in encouragement, explaining that the problem was (at least back then) rather widespread.
Funny thing is, I'm willing to wager that there are still examples today, and at all sites - just have to dig deep enough to find them.
imax24 posted Sun, 20 November 2011 at 8:52 PM
It's not really a "new Poser store" at DAZ. If you click on the Poser link, it simply performs a search that filters out non-Poser things like Genesis. It's the same Poser-compatible stuff that was always there. Some new Poser things are still coming out, but more slowly. About half of the new goods are for Genesis.
This, too, is not new. When a new product would come out -- Stephanie 4, Aiko 4, Hiro, Kids, whatever -- everything was about that product for awhile. I'm not into the carnival stuff, so it irked me to see almost nothing but carnival stuff for a couple weeks. The same when their Native American collection came out: all Indians, all the time. When they get their teeth into something, they and the vendors don't let go!
Genesis is a more signficant sea change, and it does signal a reduction in new Poser-compatible goods as their vendors focus on Genesis. I think it is permanent, but I don't think it is absolute. The market for V4, M4 is huge, and so is the Poser market. Their vendors won't let them change their business model to Genesis-only. The artists can't afford to live off selling only to Daz Studio users.
wimvdb posted Mon, 21 November 2011 at 11:03 AM
Quote - I've been in that particular biz for far too long, and I very much know better. ;)
I've been in that busines since 1978, so you don't need to educate me.
Quote - > Quote - I never said I wanted perfectly matched results - that is what you made up. I said I wanted to have POSER compatible results meaning not looking rubbish in any version of Poser.
Quick - define "not looking rubbish". Bad lighting can make a perfect mesh look like crap. Bad camera angles can destroy a certain facial expression. Fact is, you cannot place an objective definition on compatibility beyond loading and being free from obvious defects (reversed normal, misaligned texture, etc).
I expect a limited form of quality where a render looks acceptable - this is nothing more than checking for reversed normals and misaligned textures. Acceptable means remotely looking like the promos
Quote - > Quote - I do not have these problems with Renderosity, RDNA
You may not, but others certainly have. I pointed out some rather famous examples a few years ago... the thread that did so was deleted outright here, a similar one managed to hang on for awhile at RDNA before getting locked, and the other, longest one may still be archived at the old PoserPros site. Many merchies went predictably ballistic. I received more than a few threats, flames, and other tear/rage-filled missives in reply. I also received a larger number of messages in encouragement, explaining that the problem was (at least back then) rather widespread.
Funny thing is, I'm willing to wager that there are still examples today, and at all sites - just have to dig deep enough to find them.
I am not interested in your personal feuds.
DAZ's quality for Poser content is getting lower which is not the case on the other sites
Tomsde posted Mon, 21 November 2011 at 12:04 PM
Well many 3D hobbiests wouldn't know the difference between a normal and a whole in the ground and paying good money for content expect it to work within the parameters that it was advertised to have worked with. I've been doing 3D graphics for years and I don't want to have to do a lot of tweaking. If I buy something I want to load it in my scene and have it be ok and be able to concentrate more on composition and lighting. IF something does not work properly the vendor and/or website should do an update for the product until it is up to specs. Both Smith Micro and Daz advertise that using their software is intuitive and fun and something anyone can do, even a person with no 3D program experience. I don't think that it's too much to ask for a product to work as advertised, especially since it seems that after years of declining prices (at least at Daz) that prices for content are starting to go up again.
As to what wimvbd said:
"Daz's quality for Poser content is getting lowe which is not the case on the other sites"
Do you feel it's just the Poser specific content or would you include content created for Daz Studio as well? I will give you that other webstie have higher quality merchandice than they used to have, and that's a good thing because it's good to have choices.
wimvdb posted Mon, 21 November 2011 at 12:12 PM
Quote - As to what wimvbd said:
"Daz's quality for Poser content is getting lowe which is not the case on the other sites"
Do you feel it's just the Poser specific content or would you include content created for Daz Studio as well? I will give you that other webstie have higher quality merchandice than they used to have, and that's a good thing because it's good to have choices.
I can't say since I do not use Daz Studio, but at least the promos are rendered in Studio, so it should be better as the Poser version
I also have to add that there are many vendors at DAZ which do excellent work, it is just that it seems like DAZ is not testing it on Poser anymore
Tomsde posted Mon, 21 November 2011 at 1:49 PM
On Daz's Forums they're asking for Beta Testers, perhaps they lost some.
wimvdb posted Mon, 21 November 2011 at 6:48 PM
Quote - On Daz's Forums they're asking for Beta Testers, perhaps they lost some.
They are only looking for people who are knowledgeable Daz Studio users.....
Tomsde posted Mon, 21 November 2011 at 6:52 PM
Although I've tried all the version of Studio until this last one, that definitely is not me.
Penguinisto posted Tue, 22 November 2011 at 9:12 AM
Quote - > Quote - I've been in that particular biz for far too long, and I very much know better. ;)
I've been in that busines since 1978, so you don't need to educate me.
Like I said - read any EULA on any piece of software and prove me wrong, even those reaching back to the earliest days of consumer computing if you like. The evidence alone is overwhelmingly in my favor.
Quote - > Quote - Quick - define "not looking rubbish". Bad lighting can make a perfect mesh look like crap. Bad camera angles can destroy a certain facial expression. Fact is, you cannot place an objective definition on compatibility beyond loading and being free from obvious defects (reversed normal, misaligned texture, etc).
I expect a limited form of quality where a render looks acceptable - this is nothing more than checking for reversed normals and misaligned textures. Acceptable means remotely looking like the promos
So, now you just have to define "acceptable", or "remotely".
Know that I hadn't even touched on differences caused by render settings, plugins/scripts, or many, many other individual factors.
Quote - > Quote - Funny thing is, I'm willing to wager that there are still examples today, and at all sites - just have to dig deep enough to find them.
I am not interested in your personal feuds.
It wasn't a personal feud. Nice try, though.
Quote - DAZ's quality for Poser content is getting lower which is not the case on the other sites
Now all you have to do is have some evidence to back up your assertion. Do you have any?
Penguinisto posted Tue, 22 November 2011 at 9:17 AM
Quote - Well many 3D hobbiests wouldn't know the difference between a normal and a whole in the ground and paying good money for content expect it to work within the parameters that it was advertised to have worked with. I've been doing 3D graphics for years and I don't want to have to do a lot of tweaking.
Tweaking in what way, exactly?
(...and trust me, a flipped normal is pretty frickin' obvious, even if the user didn't know what one was.)
Quote - I will give you that other webstie have higher quality merchandice than they used to have, and that's a good thing because it's good to have choices.
I can agree to this as well. Time has brought a few merchants up, and have eliminated most of those who didn't really know what they were doing.