Please help me.  I am losing my mind.

I use Poser for fun.  I have tried to learn as much as possible but some of it is just so foreign to me.  So please be gentle.

I haven't touched Poser in almost a year but now that I have I have either forgotten everything or Poser has gone borked on me.

My renders suddenly look different but the worst is hair.  If you look at some of my previous images the hair isn't terrible.  It looks like hair.  For the last few days I can't get hair to look like anything besides modelled clay.  What happened?  What am I doing wrong? It is driving me nuts.  This is hair I have used many times before.  I even bought new hair today and still no luck

 

This is what an (area) render of the hair looks like.

 

(PS this is just test rendering so excuse the rest)

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

These are my settings for the above image.

 

I did also try various other settings but it seems to have not made much of a difference on the hair.

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

The hair actually looks better in preview mode :(

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

The only thing that has changed is my machine.

This is the current one compared to previous Macbook Pro 2.66GHZ with 8GB ram

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

You have the raytrace bounce very high. 3-4 is enough .

What kind of lights are you using? 

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Thanx Ladonna,

 

I did try it set lower but I am going to try again (will post result)

Lights I am using a P8 light set as it was just for testing but in all the images I have tried the last few days have all had different lights.  Could that be it?  Should I try something else with this one?

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

Some lights can make this kind of issue with Tranperency.

Could you make a screen from your Material room with the hairshader?

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Same settings as above but with raytrace set to 4

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

Is this what you meant?

 

Going to try another light as well and see if that makes any difference

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

I don't know, but it looks for me that the transperency is somehow not working properly.

You use IBL light with AO?

Can you make me please a screen from your shadernode? From The material room?

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

How I can see, there is a lot of AO in this image. Comes it from your light?

Because when your hair has AO shader nodes too and your light is set up with AO, this is to much. It can make strange effects and artifacts.

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

LOL, Rero don't want me to see your mat settings ;)

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Urgh this is annoying.  I will keep trying to post it but in the mean time:

 

yes I was using a light with AO.  I just tried it with a light with no AO and it looks much better.

I am super confused though as I've always used the same light set (with AO) and results before have never been this hideous :(

 

Thank you SO much

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

Are my render settings good / ok / prefered ? 

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

AO is devlish. It can give nice effects, but to much damage the whole image.

Maybe the hair has the AO node in a strange way conected too. 

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

The rendersettings are okay to me :)

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Attached Link: Material Room

Ok so this seems to be the only way.

 

Is this the material room you were refering to?

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

Yeah I have no idea what has changed.  This is the new hair I just bought but I've been trying for days with hair I have used many times before.

Seems Poser holds a grudge when you don't use it for a while ;)

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

Please be gentle?
OK, wil try..

Please, please, please remove ALL AO everywhere you can find it.
Remove all AO from all lights, and or all materials.
AO is fake.
AO is fake IDL and is from previous Poser versions when there was not IDL yet.

You have the real thing = IDL, render with IDL.
Raytrace bounces 2-3
Pixel Samples 3-4

Also try; I do not know the hair u are using but try;
Connect the hair texture into Bump at .5 (my Poser units are inches, chech yoursà
Connect the hair texture also in Displacement at 0.1 in inches

Testrender with IDL in render settings, with ONE single pure white infinite light with NO AO.... :-)

Happy Posering

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Not much settings, so this can not be the issue. 

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Try to set the transperncy fall off to 0.600

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Quote - Please be gentle?
OK, wil try..

Please, please, please remove ALL AO everywhere you can find it.
Remove all AO from all lights, and or all materials.
AO is fake.
AO is fake IDL and is from previous Poser versions when there was not IDL yet.

You have the real thing = IDL, render with IDL.
Raytrace bounces 2-3
Pixel Samples 3-4

Also try; I do not know the hair u are using but try;
Connect the hair texture into Bump at .5 (my Poser units are inches, chech yoursà
Connect the hair texture also in Displacement at 0.1 in inches

Testrender with IDL in render settings, with ONE single pure white infinite light with NO AO.... :-)

Happy Posering

 

Thanx.  You were pretty gentle till you hit the "connect the hair texture...." part but I am going to give it a try.

Do you have a light set you can recommend or do I just create it?

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

For your information : Any attached picture can only be 200KB.

Just draw a line between Bump and the hair texture to connect them.
And then draw a line between Displacement and the hair texture to connect them.

Then set the values, and test.

For the lights?
Delete them all.
And then make one pure white infinite light and start from there.

Render settings
Cast shadows ON
RB 2-3
Render with IDL
IC pull back to ZERO (left) for testing
IDL quality 7
Pixel samples 3-4
MSR 0.2 (0.1 only available if you go deeper into Poser parameters settings)
Buckest size (less important as you have lots of RAM but leave at 32)
Smoothing can stay ON
Use Displacement maps MUST be ON ( as I tyold "asked you" to connect a displacement map.

"" Use Displacement has no use, if nothing in your scene is connected to a Displacement node"" 
As soon as you connect anything into any Displacement, this setting has to go ON.
Post filter set to 3 at sync.

Safe settings
Pray, :-) and push Render :-)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Aww you're being gentle :D

 

Thank you.  So I leave the exisitng as is and add the extra? Or delete the existing and then add the others?

 

 

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

Remove the Texture filtering "Quality" to none. This can makes sometimes problems too.

 

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Quote - Please be gentle?
OK, wil try..

Please, please, please remove ALL AO everywhere you can find it.
Remove all AO from all lights, and or all materials.
AO is fake.
AO is fake IDL and is from previous Poser versions when there was not IDL yet.

You have the real thing = IDL, render with IDL.
Raytrace bounces 2-3
Pixel Samples 3-4

 

i couldnt disagree more.

AO still has its place. in order to render ultrafine IDL shadows on small objects you would have to crank your shadow intensity and IDL/render settings through the roof and subsequently deal with shadow artifacts/splotchiness when you could have achieved better results by selectively using AO instead.

i am not talking about just turning default AO on on your lights indiscriminately, but rather using the AO node sparingly in the material room to enhance fine shadows on objects.  an AO node plugged into your ground/backdrop also helps ground your figure in the image.

@ Blackheart, you are free to disagree.

Internally, as from SR 2 or 3, I do not know exactly any more, Poser just ignores AO settings as soon as IDL is vinked On in renders settings.
So put AO where ever you want :-)

But?
I agree... If you know what you are doing, you can use AO in NON IDL renders.
But I prefer IDL, and then work with the light shadow settings to finetune.
Using both, AO and IDL, can lead to lots of gueswork and frustration. 

Correct Ladonna:
Removing the texture filter Quality to none is also an improvement.
Untill you have Poser9 or PP2012 where you can put Texture filtering to Crisp.

@Honey.ZA
U sure you have the latest SR's installed??

You never mentioned what Poser version you are using.
I guessed Poser8

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote -
Internally, as from SR 2 or 3, I do not know exactly any more, Poser just ignores AO settings as soon as IDL is vinked On in renders settings.
So put AO where ever you want :-)

In Poser 9 and Poser Pro 2012 IDL can be combined with AO.

I've not tried doing what Blackhearted says but the idea makes a lot of sense to me - I'll certainly be giving it a go.

Free stuff @ https://poser.cobrablade.net/

@Vitters,

 

I have not been able to load the last SR but yes I am on Poser 8.  Which leads me to another question.  Is Poser 9 a huge improvement?  Being in SA the exchange rate makes it a pricey purchase so PP2012 is kinda out of the question but is P9 much better than 8?

 

Thank you Ladonna,  I have done that and busy doing another test render :)

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

Your welcome :)

But back to your question.

Yes Poser 9 is a big improvement.  At last more stable ( for me) 

The render engine is impoved too. Quicker, better. :)

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Awesome!!  Thank you :)

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

"Internally, as from SR 2 or 3, I do not know exactly any more, Poser just ignores AO settings as soon as IDL is vinked On in renders settings.
So put AO where ever you want :-)"

perhaps when used on lights, but i dont use AO on lights due to the lack of fine control. i am using a procedural shader with an AO node in PP2012 right now and it renders fine in IDL.

Huge improvement.  Thank you

 

This is with the Texture filter quality to none and the fall-off to 0.600

 

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

Looks way better :)

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

A another way to give more enchantment is with specular nodes and a specular map.

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

O_O

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

Quote - Huge improvement.  Thank you

 

 

^thats much better.

if thats going to be your final pose you should consider fixing the angular bend with the morph brush.

Quote -
if thats going to be your final pose you should consider fixing the angular bend with the morph brush.

 

Thank you!  I didn't even think of that!

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

Quote - @Vitters,  I have not been able to load the last SR but yes I am on Poser 8.  Which leads me to another question.  Is Poser 9 a huge improvement?  Being in SA the exchange rate makes it a pricey purchase so PP2012 is kinda out of the question but is P9 much better than 8?

 Thank you Ladonna,  I have done that and busy doing another test render :)

Massive! Weight-mapping for figures (better bending and stuff) and sss (more realistic skin tones are just some of the improvements, hon...

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand] 

Metaphor of Chooks

Thank you RobynsVeil!  That's exactly what I was looking / waiting for.

So not a bad move to go to P9 instead of PP2012 :D

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

If you are not a content creator, the move to Poser9 will bring.

A lot better preview (HUGE preview improvement)
Faster rendering times (by about 25-33 %)
SSS = Subsurface scattering renders = a HUGE improvement in realism when used correctly.

Poser9 can USE weightmapped figures and props.

But?
Only PP2012 can create weightmaps. That is the main difference.
And only PP2012 has Gamma correction.
And only PP2012 is 64 bit, Poser9 is still a 32 bit application limiting its RAM use to OS limits.

You can compare the different Poser versions here :-)
http://poser.smithmicro.com/comparison.html

And here a lot of Smith Micro's tutorials
http://poser.smithmicro.com/tutorials.html

And here you can download the free SR3 for Poser8 to version 8.0.3.11793
http://poser.smithmicro.com/updates.html

Poser 8 Service Release 3 (SR3) 8.0.3

This critical Service Release for Poser 8 will update any previous English version of Poser 8, including the hotfix, SR1 versions and SR2/SR2.1. Simply download SR3 and launch the installer to update to Poser 8.0.3.11793. For full details on what the updater includes, please refer to the Read Me file linked below. Mac users will need to re-enter their original Poser 8 serial number after updating to SR3. - This update will only work on an installed copy of Poser 8.0.x. Macintosh Download the SR3 for Poser 8 - (63 MB .dmg)
Download the SR3 Read Me - (.rtf) Windows Download the SR3 for Poser 8 - (20.1 MB .zip)
Download the SR3 Read Me - (.rtf)

Happy Posering

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

That is awesome!   Thank you very much

:)

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

Just wanted to say this thread has been very helpful.  I, too, have been having problems with transmapped hair looking strange.  I think Poser 9 must handle materials differently.

One thing I've found is that I have to change the diffuse color to something matching the hair.  It can be white in older versions of Poser, but for some reason, it shows through with Poser 9, making the hair look bizarrely striped.

I would like to use IBL more, but it seems I don't have enough memory.  Poser chokes.  (Reminds me of the old days of Poser 5.)  I'm running Windows 7, 64-bit, with 12 Gb of RAM.  Would using 64-bit Poser Pro instead help?  Do I need more RAM?  Do I need to render smaller images?  (I like to render at 1600x1200, or thereabouts.)

I'm using bucket sizes as small as 4, but getting a memory error suggesting I use smaller bucket sizes or adaptive something or another.  No idea what the latter is, or how to change it.

 

 

 

You are using Poser9? Correct?

Poser9 is a 32 bit application.. Putting more RAM in your system will not help.

But yes, Poser9 does have a transparancy problem that is being worked on.
Should be OK when the SR's come out.

So far, I just connect the texture to diffuse color white, set the diffuse value at 0.8, and also connect the same texture to Bump at 0.5 and Displacement at 0.1
(Poser units in inches)

But?
Even Poser9 should not choke with one figure and one transmapped hair.

Please, unless absolutely required. Forget IBL. Like AO, it is fake and from a period before IDL.

Use bb's sphere and render with IDL.

I always use bb's sphere and ONE (1) infinite light. '(That often has to be reduced to 60% because you have too mush light  :-) :-) in your scene.

The cases I use a second light became from rare, to extremely rare, to well, it has been weeks now. :-)

I prefer to use ambient on the objects that have a natural glow like a TV screen, a PC screen, a lightbulb, a candle.

Sometimes, in an enclosed environment like a room, it helps to put a little ambient on the walls and cieling too. I use ambient on close to every cieling.

I think with your RAM, you need an system clean up. (You did not mention your CPU)
I would download Advanced System Care free, from iobit, and let it do its Deep cleaning. (Version 4.2 now)

Or Glary Utilities
Or Winutilities

All free and pretty good in housekeeping.
just let them do their thing.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - You are using Poser9? Correct ?

Yes.  I don't export to any other programs except Vue, and I'm not planning to weight-map my own figures, so I thought Poser 9 would be enough.  Now I'm wondering if I should have gone for Pro.

Quote - But yes, Poser9 does have a transparancy problem that is being worked on.
Should be OK when the SR's come out.

Thanks, that's good to know.  I thought I was going insane for awhile there.

Quote - Please, unless absolutely required. Forget IBL. Like AO, it is fake and from a period before IDL. Use bb's sphere and render with IDL.

Does IDL take less memory?

Poser 9 comes with all those IBL lights.  I thought since they came with the program they would work. 

Quote - I think with your RAM, you need an system clean up. (You did not mention your CPU)

I'm not at the computer I use for Poser right now, but according to the receipt, the CPU is an "Intel Core i7-920 processor (8MB L3 Cache 2.66GHz)"

It's a fairly new computer and not used much (basically, just for Poser and Vue).  But I'll try a cleanup when I get home.

What you can change too, in preferences , check the "render in seperate process"

remove the checker from "use external binary morph targest and from "check the updates"

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

i7-920?? With 16G RAM?

Even  Poser9 being 32 bit, it should flyyyyyyyyyy...............

Something else is going on.

Do a clean up, and test again.

Ladonna is right also.
Render in a separate process launches the renderer as a separate application that can also use max available RAM.

Removing the checkbox for external binary morph, does seem to make Poser9 more stable untill the SR's fix that too.

But with your CPU and 16G RAM, sorry something else is going on inside your PC.

Clean-clean-clean, and oh, if you find something called Norton?
Open front door, kick out, close front door, live happy ever after.

Install Windows Security Essentials.
And something like IObit malware fighter.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

vilters is right.

And yes, Norton is real messmaker. Remove if you have something from it.

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

Quote - Testrender with IDL in render settings, with ONE single pure white infinite light with NO AO.... :-)

Happy Posering

 

Me again :)

 

Can you please help me with this infinite light.  Any particular settings it needs besides no AO?  Intensity? Atmosphere strenght?  Leave it at default?

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

I don't have Norton on my computer.  I don't use any anti-virus program, and haven't for years.  I don't use Outlook, don't open attachments I'm not expecting, use Firefox with NoScript and Flashblock, and use WinPatrol and a firewall.  Haven't gotten any viruses yet (knock on wood).

External binary morphs are already disabled.  I will try render in separate process.  Does un-checking "check for updates" really make a difference?

I really think the issue is those IBL lights.  I have no problem rendering with normal, old-school Poser lights.  Except they're blindingly bright in Poser 9. 

There should only be 1 IBL necessary for any given outdoor scene.  And, at best, should also be lower in intensity, depending on the scene in general.  Lowering your diffuse_value on your PoserSurface for all objects will help alleviate the render load; most things in nature will not reflect diffuse lighting 100%.  Light sets are memory hogs, and the more present, the more likelihood that a render can fail.  However, P9 should be stable enough to handle several lights in a scene.

Thanks.  I don't really understand the "advanced" Poser lighting.  Not enough to make my own, anyway.  The ones I've tried have been the light sets that ship with Poser 9.  They look good.  From what I've seen before the out of memory error, anyway.

OK, we are back.

Whisky - Hotel - Alfa - Whisky = WHAW!

RELAX, sit back, relax some more, sip some coffie, read with a smile :-)

Ready, Ok, here we go :-)

This afternoon I went outside.
Called Mr Scotty to beam me up into the Enterprice.
With dear Capt Kirk and the smart earman, we took a round trip to the sun.
We searched, visually and with all the sensors on board, but the result was quite as expected.
So here is the scientific conclusion that we entered in todays starlogs:

Lady's and gentlemen, and my dearest Poser friends:
The is NO image on the sun.

Well, actually, that is all I have to say about Image Based Light. ;-)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

falls over laughing

HoNeY
http://www.HoneyB.co.za

OK, some loose answers are needed:

In Poser9, when you delete all lights and make a new light.
Unlike older Poser versions, the new light comes in at pure white and 100%.
That is a lot of light.
Unlike older Poser versions, you will have to reduce the strength of a light.
Certainly when you NEED a rare second light.

Honey_ZA, when you create an new light in Poser8 it will have a random color and strength.

 

BEFORE Poser8 we had AO and we had Image based Light.
Both are fake and try to give the illusion of natural light.
They do not, and stay at being, or giving an illusion. Nothing more nothing less.

All light sets, build and sold before Poser8 are useless with IDL,(In Direct Light) that was included in Poser8 and the newer versions.

Using an older light set, and turning IDL to ON in the render settings, is like trying to unscramble scrambled eggs. 

---

In Direct Light is closest to the light we see every day.
Everything around us diffuses light. (Otherwise the objects would be pure black as in a black hole in space.)

Everything diffuses and reflects light in some way for us to see it.
But Poser?
Poser is pure math.
You throw in a light, and we SEE because of the diffuse color-map-value in the node.
Most objects diffuse at 0.8, so we mostly use 0.8 as the diffuse value.

Most objects are rough, or shine.
We use Bump and displacement to rough objects, and can use specular, or blinn to make them shine.

Ha-ha-, but most shiny objects also reflect.
So we use a reflection node to make them reflect what is around them.

And some object even emit light?
Well we can give them a color in ambient_color, and control the emitting with ambient_value.

The mat room in a nutshell and understandable words.
All other nodes are refinements of the above.

---

For those that do not have it yet.
Goto BB's free stuff and download his free sphere.
The sphere is a 750 ft wide Poser environment.
And this gives the ILLUSION of how light behaves in air.
Air is full of dust to diffuse light.
Poser has no dust, (pure math remember) so we have to create a dust simulation for Poser lights; the sphere.

Now load the sphere, and load a DEFAULT infinite light, and you have ONE sun, shining in Posers interface.

This, together with IDL gives the closest one can get to natural light.
Yes, put a sky image on the sphere, but BB explains that on his site.

For all else in your scene, you can get away with diffuse, and bump, and displacement, and specular, and blinn, and reflection as needed.
In an ideal situation, EVERY material should have some ambient.
But mostly we can get away without it as you will see for yourself. . . .

One single default infinite light inside BB's sphere is mostly way overdone in light already and the light has to be reduced to . . . start with something around 50-60% in intensity.

Happy posering

 

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

PS , I also checked all lightbulbs here in the house, but no luck. :-)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

I think my problem was having indirect light and IBL at the same time. 

I rather liked how it looked, but I guess Poser hates it.  (My style is more illustrative than photorealistic.) 

"Render in separate process" seemed to help, too. 

Thanks much for the advice.