Whether you switch to DS and genesis or not may depend a lot on how much money you want to sink into new content/characters/plugins.

Genesis is free, but I'm pretty sure the shapes(m4, v4 etc) all cost money as do the morph packages for genesis. From my understanding while your clothes would fit a v4 genesis you wont save any of their built in morphs when transfering them to genesis. Content going forward may have a certain ease of use factor with the morph following (honestly cannot speak to how well this works) but you definitly leverage your current collection better by sticking with your current set up and adding the two morph packages.

While the base version of DS is free you will have to shell out some bucks to get similar functionality as you have in poser (8?) via plugins and add ons. Genesis itself seems to be a bit of a money pit so you really should consider how much you are willing to spend. Even if you do have significant money to spend I'd still suggest looking into an upgrade to Poser 9 or pro 2012 and weighing the pros and cons of that vs. genesis/DS. I'd say it compares very favorably and is getting a lot of really great and inexpensive figure support

none of the Gen 4 clothes fit Genesis, not even if Genesis has the V4/M4 shape morphs.

you would need the Autofit plug-in, which is really still a beta .( retails at about $100 i believe)

also, as meatsim has said, all movement/special morphs are destroyed by the Autofit progress. also, only relatively tight clothing converts successfully ( in general) shoes and hair are problematic.

You can pick up the Autofit right now for like $5 in magazines. Grab it, grab free DS4 and give it a whirl. Why not? On some of your outfits, it will spek for itself, both good and bad.

Also, don't get confused with the ease of "morphing" genesis, versus "blending" your purchased morphs. It is great at the latter. You still need to purchase morphs for Genesis. (i.e. V4/M4 shapes, Troll, Creatures, etc...)

So you'll still need to purchase morphs, but once you have them, you can dial in 20% troll, 30% david and 40% V4....to make whatever that is?

Well unlike some of the other posts that try to distract you away from the info you really want with non-objective points such as "money pit", "shiny objects", "still a beta" and the such, let's see if we can actually help you get some info so you can make an objective decision:

Quote - I have Poser 2008.

There's a Poser 2010 and a Poser 8? Could it be one of those?

Quote - I'm not anything close to a master in it, but have created a few characters I like for my project in David 3 and Michael 4. I have a few more characters to create. I need to buy Michael ++ Morphs and Vicky 4 ++ morphs to get more variation and then I noticed the Genesis option.

So you don't have much invested in gen 4 options? If not, you have a pretty clean slate to work with. Do you work primarily with M4/D3?

Quote - Genesis looks pretty easy to use and morphing the characters seems easier. So, I have a three simple questions:

Why should I move to Genesis?

People can give you different reasons for that and it all depends on what you want to do. The big idea idea behind is it is that one figure serves as a base for all figures. So you can derive a male and female, as well and creatures and a gorilla from the same base, all with different scales. Also it uses weightmapping so a good chunk of bending issues have been resolved from the previous generation and you can scale the figure as well. These morphs can also be mixed together to create brand new morphs as well. So you could mix a female and gorrilla together to get a female gorilla if you wanted.

If you like creating people and creatures, then you'll really like it because you can create different morphs and clothes designed for it will fit. Now extreme morphs may not look too good, but the clothes still fit.

Quote - Why should I not?

If Poser is your app of choice, then the figure isn't completely compatible in Poser 2012 and Poser 9. Right now, it works completely in DS4 and somewhat in Poser 9/2012. It doesn't work in lower versions. The exporter that is part of DS4 can export a genesis character to Poser but it has a long way to go for compatibility. The figure will be lower in polys than in ds4 (because DS4 uses subdivision in it's platform) and clothes currently don't work.

In DS4, the autofit tool mangles shoes and removes morphs from clothing. So right now simple clothing works best until they can fix/add more features to it.

Also with it being a new figure, there's not a lot of content for it yet, like a good pair of shoes. The autofit tools helps with some outfits but it's not perfect.

Quote - If I went with Genesis can my David 3 and Michael 4 characters make a seemless transition to Genesis?

There are clones for both David 3 and Michael 4 for genesis, and the GenX by Dimension3D tool currently allows you to bring over morphs from Michael 4 and he's looking at adding D3 support. Also with the David 3 clone if you have the autofit tool, you can also import clothing for D3 and it will fit genesis... but will have the same issues as importing other clothing. I've also used the content toolkit to convert some head morphs from D3 to genesis.

But really the best thing to do is to try it out in DS4 and see if you like it or not, because I nor others shouldn't take the place of your own use with the figure. But since you sound like you don't have a lot invested in content, you really should do a hands on with both and see what you like. Check out the freebie thread on the DAZ common forums where I did some head morphs for both Gen 4 and Genesis and you can try both out and see what you like.

Some decent info and points of view in the rest of this post, now if we could find a way to deliver it without taking jabs at other posters first maybe this forum (and likely this thread) wouldnt devolve into more petty bickering.

and honestly I'm not trying to start anything, but as a suggestion why not simply give your answer to the OP without first taking a swipe at the other posters. If what you have to say contrasts with what others have said that will speak for itself. There's really no need to tear anyone down first. Lets all work together to keep return this forum to the good natured place (I'm told) it once was

my 2 cents.. no offence intended

Quote - Well unlike some of the other posts that try to distract you away from the info you really want with non-objective points such as "money pit", "shiny objects", "still a beta" and the such, let's see if we can actually help you get some info so you can make an objective decision:

Quote -

Quote - and honestly I'm not trying to start anything, but as a suggestion why not simply give your answer to the OP without first taking a swipe at the other posters. If what you have to say contrasts with what others have said that will speak for itself. There's really no need to tear anyone down first. Lets all work together to keep return this forum to the good natured place (I'm told) it once was

my 2 cents.. no offence intended

I think I made my point quite clear; if you don't want jabs thrown at you, then don't throw them, especially when there was no help provided at all that answered what the OP was looking for to go with it.

No jab or offence intended, sometimes we all need a reminder, now and again, when our behaviors may be causing unintended negative effects on others.

But you are correct, this is off topic from the imediate issues of the thread so If you would like to discuss further feel free to do so via PM.

As regards the OP..

You will also find WM figures available for poser. Currently the selection is decidedly female.. however such is the way of the poser world. There are projects in the works for Male characters. I would be very surprised not to see a weightmapped version of M4 before too long. That all would require a change of program to poser 9. (IMHO a very worthwhile upgrade for a multitude of reasons, especially if final render quality is high on your priority list)

Quote - > Quote - and honestly I'm not trying to start anything, but as a suggestion why not simply give your answer to the OP without first taking a swipe at the other posters. If what you have to say contrasts with what others have said that will speak for itself. There's really no need to tear anyone down first. Lets all work together to keep return this forum to the good natured place (I'm told) it once was

my 2 cents.. no offence intended

I think I made my point quite clear; if you don't want jabs thrown at you, then don't throw them, especially when there was no help provided at all that answered what the OP was looking for to go with it.

Yes, sorry. I have Poser 8. Points well taken, thank you to all. And, I agree. It seems making a switch right now, in the middle of a project could be problematic. However, I could just keep my Poser characters in Poser and new ones in Genesis, but it does seem it is more costly to go the Genesis route. I guess I was just thinking about the future because in a way the Poser architecture seems not as advanced as Genesis. Maybe I'm wrong and just seeing 'bright shiny objects'. :)

You can use your characters in Daz Studio 4. The old figures will work. Genesis is just an option.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Poser 8 is definitly not as advanced as Genesis. The weightmapping is a great feature, saves all the bloat in a figure like what you have in v4. There are a lot of compelling things about genesis, but here are also trade-offs with giving up poser for DS.

I can only speak to my personal decision, but from my subjective standpoint, the best looking renders I see being posted (in forums, in promo pics etc) seem to be done with poser. Poser 9/pro 2012 has a lot to offer as well. Converting clothes to weightmapped characters is very easy. Scene set up and material room set up is much easier to get a handle on than in previous versions, the cloth room has performed very well and given some stunning results without a lot of effort. It can take a little learning but the potential to expand your capabilities without forking out more money once you own the program is imense

Quote - Yes, sorry. I have Poser 8. Points well taken, thank you to all. And, I agree. It seems making a switch right now, in the middle of a project could be problematic. However, I could just keep my Poser characters in Poser and new ones in Genesis, but it does seem it is more costly to go the Genesis route. I guess I was just thinking about the future because in a way the Poser architecture seems not as advanced as Genesis. Maybe I'm wrong and just seeing 'bright shiny objects'. :)

* It can take a little learning but the potential to expand your capabilities without forking out more money once you own the program is imense.*

And Poser 9/Poser Pro 2012 comes with a manual, so there is actually a chance of learning its advanced features. *

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Quote - I guess I was just thinking about the future because in a way the Poser architecture seems not as advanced as Genesis. Maybe I'm wrong and just seeing 'bright shiny objects'. :)

Quote - Poser 8 is definitly not as advanced as Genesis.

You are not really comparing the same things here. Poser 8 is a program and Genesis is a character.

If you wish to use weightmapping you may wish to consider updating to the newest version of Poser i.e. Poser 9/Pro 2012. It has full weight mapping capabilities and you will still have your familiar interface. The other option of changing applications and content is even more expensive and then you will also have to re-learn how to do things which is not advisable if you are mid-project.

Indeed, and Poser8 is from 2 years ago and DS4-Genesis is from mid this year. Looking fast??? Yes it is still 2011 :-)

Poser9-PP2012 also have new techology; unfortunately, the 2 apps are not completely comatible any more.
Older content works in both, but the newer content is single application.
Miki3 not fully operational in DS4 and Genesis not fully operational in Poser.

If you are in the middle of a project? I would perhaps upgrade, yes, but stick to the line I have.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

From what you stated in your first post, here's the thing that you have focused on:

The characters.

Moving forward, you should consider if I get a new application, which one is going to still allow me to focus on character creation? You use D3 and M4 and you've stated an interest into possibly using those two moving forward; which app is going to do that for you the best?

Poser renders really nice and fast, however, if you're looking at male figures moving forward, then you probably do need to look at Genesis. Male figures have always been on the low end of the totem pole, and genesis gives you a instant boost to what you can do. It will make some people mad, but there will not simply be any competition to what's DAZ is offering as far as the male. Period. And before someone mentions Brad... I've been waiting for his release since 2009, and the major push to get him out the door still isn't there because he's being pushed aside by the women... and I seriously doubt the push to clothe him will be there as well. And I've been having fun not only sculpting the head of genesis (like with M4), but working on sculpting the body as well... and the clothes still fit.

Hopefully, SM and DAZ will figure iron out the issues so that genesis will work in Poser, however if you you're going to invest in another program so that you going to use male figures, I'd invest in DS4 first... because you DON'T want to miss M5's arrival.

Well I do not have a dog in this fight, unlike some of the responses you have received.

If you are currently in the middle of a project, I thnik you should finish it before you you start to make a decision.

By all means, download and test DS4, but when you come to the forums for advice, It may be a good idea to check the background of the people that are giving you that advice. The DS vs Poser discussion is one that attracts advocates for both sides so the advice pro or con is very likely to be biased.

Bill

People that know everything by definition can not learn anything

If you can use or even like Daz's interface, you can use both you know. You just won't be able to use the gene stuff in poser.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Quote - I'd invest in DS4 first... because you DON'T want to miss M5's arrival.

Why do you say that? And won't M5 work in Poser? Is it due to arrive soon?

And that brings up another question:

If I stay with Poser and M5 is coming out soon, should I bother to buy M4 Morphs++? (or for that matter V4 Morphs++?)

If it is anything like V5, then no M5 will not work in Poser.

I would say the first thing for you to do is to try Studio, work with it a little, and see if you like it. If you don't, stick with Poser.

Your Gen 4 Michael and David characters will have to be recreated for Genesis (unless you also buy GenX, that lets you use Gen 4 morphs with Genesis - I can't vouch for how well since I don't have it though).

I am in a slightly similar situation in that I had made a V4 character that I used often and wanted to recreate her with Genesis. I had to turn all the dials again to make the face and body shape I wanted, but it wasn't too hard and since Gen 4 textures work with Genesis, I was able to recreate her pretty well. Then my hard drive crashed last week and now I have to do it yet again, lol. ;)

But anyway, the real key is going to be if you want to use Studio or not, that will determine whether you can use Genesis (and your Gen 4 stuff) or if you should stay with Poser and what you're familiar with.

SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Quote - And that brings up another question:

If I stay with Poser and M5 is coming out soon, should I bother to buy M4 Morphs++? (or for that matter V4 Morphs++?)

If you're still using Gen4 and making stuff with that, sure it makes sense to get the morphs++; however at this point if you want to use M5, currently DS4 is your best choice. As I mentioned before, if you are rending women, then you have more choices. But remember the scaling options you got with steph4 and there was no David 4? What about teens? What about clothes for them? For those that do those types of renders, then genesis is probably what you are looking for, because these not any solutions coming anywhere else.

Is M5 supposed to be "all of that" over M4? I didn't really think V5 was so much better than V4. (except for weightmapping, which you can get in either software now it seems) I guess she was a little more realistic in size...but otherwise? There is a lot of hype about Genesis, but V5 is rarely raved about.

M4 seems already about the correct size, so what will M5 Genesis have so much better than M4 Genesis?

Oops, and for the op, remember its a matter of choice here. You'll still need to purchase something. M4 -> M4 Morphs++, M5 -> Genesis Evolution Body Morphs, Genesis Evolution Head Morphs, etc...

Since M5 will be a Genesis shape, it will not currently work with Poser. M4 will have a totally different look compared to M5--so you'll want to have both I'm sure; I've seen some previews of M5 on the Daz forum and he seems to bear more of a resemblance to M3--but the flexibility Genesis figure makes it possible to attain just about any look you want. I am not ready to give up Poser but the ability to mix all these shapes seamlessly and with the sub-d having clothing that will fit and work with any variation of body shape seamlessly without having to do conversions is a definite boon.

Try DS 4 and see what you think. It comes with enough starter content that you can experiment a bit and see if you want to get into it. I was skeptical myself until I tried it and now I love it.

??? what thread is the m5 preview?

My Renderosity Store

You have to be a Platinum Club Member to access this, but here is the link:

http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=177638

Bastards.. Would it be illegal to post them here? :)

My Renderosity Store

Questions:

If I use Daz can I render my poser created M4 and D3 figures (complete with their clothing and costumes) and a Daz created Genesis figure in the same Daz render?

Is there a reason I would want to purchase Daz Advanced instead of using the basic free Daz application?

Yes you can render your Poser created figures in daz. And yes you can add Genesis to the scene.

For your second question I would look at the differences between the two Daz versions and see if the features in advance is what you need.

My Renderosity Store

Quote - Is M5 supposed to be "all of that" over M4? I didn't really think V5 was so much better than V4. (except for weightmapping, which you can get in either software now it seems) I guess she was a little more realistic in size...but otherwise? There is a lot of hype about Genesis, but V5 is rarely raved about.

M4 seems already about the correct size, so what will M5 Genesis have so much better than M4 Genesis?

Oops, and for the op, remember its a matter of choice here. You'll still need to purchase something. M4 -> M4 Morphs++, M5 -> Genesis Evolution Body Morphs, Genesis Evolution Head Morphs, etc...

M5 looks better in his default form; the face gives me a bit of D3 and roundness from M4; the body is more of M3 but better looking. His butt.... That's all his. ;) But what annoyed me about M4 is his chest and abs. Certain morphs can make him look unnatural in certain poses. M5, I like the shape better... And the bonus is that I can further refine it, then scale different parts and still be able to pose him and have him wear all the clothes. Is he all that? Wouldn't go that far, but he's pretty good alone and a base for other morphs.

So if you can render M4 and D3 in Daz what is the V4 and M4 Shapes for Genesis and David 3 for Genesis about?

Quote - Well I do not have a dog in this fight, unlike some of the responses you have received.

If you are currently in the middle of a project, I thnik you should finish it before you you start to make a decision.

By all means, download and test DS4, but when you come to the forums for advice, It may be a good idea to check the background of the people that are giving you that advice. The DS vs Poser discussion is one that attracts advocates for both sides so the advice pro or con is very likely to be biased.

Bill

Best advice of all in this thread. :m_wink:

Agreed!

And thats coming from someone biased towards poser, even though I really have no stake in increasing poser usership.

Quote - > Quote - Well I do not have a dog in this fight, unlike some of the responses you have received.

If you are currently in the middle of a project, I thnik you should finish it before you you start to make a decision.

By all means, download and test DS4, but when you come to the forums for advice, It may be a good idea to check the background of the people that are giving you that advice. The DS vs Poser discussion is one that attracts advocates for both sides so the advice pro or con is very likely to be biased.

Bill

Best advice of all in this thread. :m_wink:

Quote - You have to be a Platinum Club Member to access this, but here is the link:

http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=177638

I'm sorry, but how is this info in any way relevant to the OP? The only people that would pay to be privy to this info are mostly people who are frequent shoppers at Daz3D, and definitely not most 3D users who are on the fence about which programs to use.

Advantage for genesis:

Better figure that has vastly improved morphing and bending features.

Can use advanced muscle-flexing morphs

The most advanced Bone and Rigging setup in 3D ready-made figures.

Can utilize 100% of generation 4's legacy morphs

Disadvantage for genesis:

You are going to have to pay for Daz 4 Pro and Genesis morph packs separately in order to take advantage of all that genesis offers. Which can easily run you well above $500.

Poser 8 will only run you $130 on Amazon, and Poser pro and 9 about $70-$150..So why would you get 8 in the first place!?

The fact is this: You could pay for well over $500 for the most advanced figure and program for content creation, thereby having the ultimate package in 3D character creation/posing, or you could stick with Generation 4 characters and a program that you're most comfortable with for only $150? (Seriously, Poser 9 for only $20 more, and you still want vers 8?)

It would be wise to go with 9 and save up the money (And wait for specials) in order to fully take advantage of Daz's new figure/program and the eventual support of Genesis.

Unless of course, you have the money to spend, in which case I'll simply add, "Buy the entire cake, and eat it as well!" ;^)

To clarify.. I think the OP already has poser 8, not that he is looking to buy it.

Also a lot of the advanced features genesis has over previous generations figures is available to poser as a program however most content currently available has been designed to only leverage poser 4 or 6 level features. As more poser 9/pro 2012 specific content rolls out you will see a distinct narrowing of the gap between genesis and the other figures

Quote - > Quote - You have to be a Platinum Club Member to access this, but here is the link:

http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=177638

I'm sorry, but how is this info in any way relevant to the OP? The only people that would pay to be privy to this info are mostly people who are frequent shoppers at Daz3D, and definitely not most 3D users who are on the fence about which programs to use.

Advantage for genesis:

Better figure that has vastly improved morphing and bending features.

Can use advanced muscle-flexing morphs

The most advanced Bone and Rigging setup in 3D ready-made figures.

Can utilize 100% of generation 4's legacy morphs

Disadvantage for genesis:

You are going to have to pay for Daz 4 Pro and Genesis morph packs separately in order to take advantage of all that genesis offers. Which can easily run you well above $500.

Poser 8 will only run you $130 on Amazon, and Poser pro and 9 about $70-$150..So why would you get 8 in the first place!?

The fact is this: You could pay for well over $500 for the most advanced figure and program for content creation, thereby having the ultimate package in 3D character creation/posing, or you could stick with Generation 4 characters and a program that you're most comfortable with for only $150? (Seriously, Poser 9 for only $20 more, and you still want vers 8?)

It would be wise to go with 9 and save up the money (And wait for specials) in order to fully take advantage of Daz's new figure/program and the eventual support of Genesis.

Unless of course, you have the money to spend, in which case I'll simply add, "Buy the entire cake, and eat it as well!" ;^)

Quote - > Quote - http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=177638

I'm sorry, but how is this info in any way relevant to the OP? The only people that would pay to be privy to this info are mostly people who are frequent shoppers at Daz3D, and definitely not most 3D users who are on the fence about which programs to use.

Advantage for genesis:

Better figure that has vastly improved morphing and bending features.

Can use advanced muscle-flexing morphs

The most advanced Bone and Rigging setup in 3D ready-made figures.

Can utilize 100% of generation 4's legacy morphs

Disadvantage for genesis

You are going to have to pay for Daz 4 Pro and Genesis morph packs separately in order to take advantage of all that genesis offers. Which can easily run you well above $500.

Poser 8 will only run you $130 on Amazon, and Poser pro and 9 about $70-$150..So why would you get 8 in the first place!?

The fact is this: You could pay for well over $500 for the most advanced figure and program for content creation, thereby having the ultimate package in 3D character creation/posing, or you could stick with Generation 4 characters and a program that you're most comfortable with for only $150? (Seriously, Poser 9 for only $20 more, and you still want vers 8?)

It would be wise to go with 9 and save up the money (And wait for specials) in order to fully take advantage of Daz's new figure/program and the eventual support of Genesis.

Unless of course, you have the money to spend, in which case I'll simply add, "Buy the entire cake, and eat it as well!" ;^)

Wait for a DAZ sale before you buy their more expensive products. And try before you buy! They also have a 30-day money back guarantee.

The shapes of V4 and M4 for Genesis are needed to convert existing characters you may have to Genesis, e.g. if you use Dimension3D's Generation X tool.

I agree that if you have a project going in Poser, you'll want to finish it in Poser most likely. As to whether it's worth it to upgrade to Poser 9, you will have to look at the newer features and decide whether it's of benefit to you. I've found the improvements for my work flow to be minimal over Poser 8; it does have weight map support for new Poser figures that have that (none of the Daz figures will have Poser compatible weight maps). If you want to do your own weight mapping, you have to go with Poser Pro 2012. If you are not a content creator it's unlikely that it will benefit you much at your stage on the Poser path. The new versions do have prettier open gl previews and give you more of an idea of what your lighting will look like when rendered. The new sub surface scattering feature is lovely and so is indirect lighting. To be perfectly frank I like the lighting setup much better in Poser than Daz Studio and I think it's easier to get a "realistic" look without having to spend more money on expensive Daz Studio lighting set ups (like Reality--which isn't currently supported in Daz Studio 4 yet).

I think the best version of Daz Studio for the serious CG artist who isn't a content creator is Daz Studio 4 Advanced which includes many plug-ins that would be costly to add to the base free version currently.

I hated M3, but this new M5 will have far greater potential with the blending capable with other shapes. Yes, as stated above you can use standard and Genesis figures together, the picture above shows the Freak 4 on the left and the Genesis male on the right. It might be worth noting that genitalia is not included with the standard Genesis package--if you want your figures to be fully equipped you'll have to buy the Pro Bundle of those figures--or buy 3rd party add-ons. I purchased male genitalia at Renderotica for my nude male renders--and that option will be cheaper than buying the Pro Bundle when it arrives. The same holds true for Vicky--if you want the lower body parts you have to get the Pro package or find a 3rd party alternative. It might be worth noting that Vicky in her earlier versions never had female external genitalia, so at least they are offering the option now. If you want to get more of idea of what Genesis can do I reccomend watching Daz's videos about it and playing with the free version as I already suggested. For that matter you can download a trial of Poser 9 and give it a whirl too--I can't tell you how many times I'd wished that I'd done that before purchasing new software.

Quote - To clarify.. I think the OP already has poser 8, not that he is looking to buy it.

Also a lot of the advanced features genesis has over previous generations figures is available to poser as a program however most content currently available has been designed to only leverage poser 4 or 6 level features. As more poser 9/pro 2012 specific content rolls out you will see a distinct narrowing of the gap between genesis and the other figures

OOPS! My mistake, it would be good to see some competition between these companies grow! Varied choices will benefit the consumer, and drive the companies in bettering their product!

@ Tomsde:

M2 and M4 were the best of Daz's figures, My avatar is made from M2!

I agree takezo3001, I still like M2 and use him often, with a good texture map he looks just great even now. Still far superior to any of the native Poser figures. I really thought they were getting somewhere with Don in Poser 5, but then they released James and Jessie and things started going down hill (in my opinion though I know there are folks that like them).

I also loved the first Freak except for his out of scale hands and feet--the new Freak is nice, but there is very little content available for him.

This is starting to look more and more a DAZ commercial

Could you please continue this in the DS forum?

What I didn't see mentioned but may have missed it.

If you do not have the morphs++ for M4 or V4, you have less than 20% of the usefulness of the figure. Adding these makes them much more versatile And, Nerd has a free download of weight mapping for V4 that is another boost to the figure, it works magnifcently.

If you have an investment in dynamic clothing for Poser, it will not work in DS, any version. DS also does not support dynamic hair, any version. and DS dynamics will not work in poser. Weight mapping for Poser, I don't believe works in DS.

If you have P8, there are upgrade paths to 2012 or P9, although the bite is still healthy. It is no worse than the bite would be to go from there to DS4 and Genesis based figures.

My advice, the morphs++ would probably make the best investment then see if you want to move to something else. What you need, not what someone else says you need.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

Quote - You are going to have to pay for Daz 4 Pro and Genesis morph packs separately in order to take advantage of all that genesis offers. Which can easily run you well above $500.

Poser 8 will only run you $130 on Amazon, and Poser pro and 9 about $70-$150..So why would you get 8 in the first place!?

The fact is this: You could pay for well over $500 for the most advanced figure and program for content creation, thereby having the ultimate package in 3D character creation/posing, or you could stick with Generation 4 characters and a program that you're most comfortable with for only $150? (Seriously, Poser 9 for only $20 more, and you still want vers 8?)

You don't need the Pro package to run genesis. Advanced is going to cost you around the same price as Poser 9. The OP hasn't bought Morphs++ for the M4 or V4, so he will need to buy that or just the Evolution morphs for genesis... so it's about the same in cost. The $500 part comes in if you want the content developer kit with the rigging tools and zbrush and photoshop bridges.

Quote -It would be wise to go with 9 and save up the money (And wait for specials) in order to fully take advantage of Daz's new figure/program and the eventual support of Genesis.

Unless of course, you have the money to spend, in which case I'll simply add, "Buy the entire cake, and eat it as well!" ;^)

I don't think it's wise to give advice to buy something now on the hope that the thing you may want to use is eventually supported. That's like buying 4 tires for a car that you hope you can drive... the tires may not even be the right size, but you told someone to just buy it.

But it all comes down with what you want to work with and go from there.

I discovered that geometry switching and some older male figures aren't working properly in Daz Studio 4 Advanced. Generally speaking Poser does give better support for legacy content, though some older texture maps don't seem to work as well with the new system. It's really a mixed bag. I like to use Michael 2, but since he's not currently working properly in Daz Studio I'll have to use Poser for that purpose. I think it's helpful to have both programs actually, some things work better in one as opposed to another--but with the figures you mentioned there shouldn't be a problem in either.

The morphs ++ is a wise investment regardless as they will continue to work with your current collection regardless of whether you decide to continue with poser or start investing in Genesis

Quote - What I didn't see mentioned but may have missed it.

If you do not have the morphs++ for M4 or V4, you have less than 20% of the usefulness of the figure. Adding these makes them much more versatile And, Nerd has a free download of weight mapping for V4 that is another boost to the figure, it works magnifcently.

If you have an investment in dynamic clothing for Poser, it will not work in DS, any version. DS also does not support dynamic hair, any version. and DS dynamics will not work in poser. Weight mapping for Poser, I don't believe works in DS.

If you have P8, there are upgrade paths to 2012 or P9, although the bite is still healthy. It is no worse than the bite would be to go from there to DS4 and Genesis based figures.

My advice, the morphs++ would probably make the best investment then see if you want to move to something else. What you need, not what someone else says you need.

It happens everytime the subject comes up... fair game though, i'm shamelessly plugging poser so cant complain too much. If we can all keep it civil there really isnt any harm in touting the virtues of our prefered software

Quote - This is starting to look more and more a DAZ commercial

Could you please continue this in the DS forum?

Still not understanding why one would need V4 and M4 Shapes for Genesis or Genesis Evolution: Head Morphs if Genesis is supposed to create whatever you want.

Michaelab wrote:

Quote - Still not understanding why one would need V4 and M4 Shapes for Genesis or Genesis Evolution: Head Morphs if Genesis is supposed to create whatever you want.

The V4 and M4 Shapes make it easier to recreate V4 and M4 characters with Genesis. The Genesis Evolution Head and Body Morphs are the equivalent to the ++ morphs for V4 and M4.

Coldrake

And if I bought the ++ morphs for V4 and and M4 I wouldn't be able to use them in Genesis, correct?

That's correct.

But if you buy the Genesis Generation X at DAZ you can transfer all of the ++ morphs from V4 and M4 into Genesis. With that and the V4 and M4 shapes you can even transfer V4 and M4 characters into Genesis. I don't have Genesis Generation X, but from what I have seen posted in the DAZ Forums, it transfers the morphs and characters extremely well.

Coldrake

Hmm.

First off, unless you are ready to scrap your half finished project and start over (or figure out how to deal with the variations in app behavior and very real differences that you will find in animation, lighting, and shading), stick with your current application workflow.

Second.

As was said, do some digging. Do you use dynamic hair? Standard Poser feature; you would have to purchase Cararra to have it for DS, and do all your rendering in Cararra. Do you use dynamic clothing? Poser can convert just about any .obj file; DS only uses Optitex clothing made by said manufacturer; unless you fork out for -their- clothes creation software, you are limited to whatever they have made and sell at DAZ. Do you favor shader work over textures? Both apps support them. Poser currently has a far better interface and documentation of what they are and do. For that matter, DS at version 4 =still= lacks anything like a manual. A lot of your time will go into the 'sit and fiddle' stage of figuring out how the bloody thing works.

DS is not unique in weightmapping; P9-Ppro2012 does it as well. The major bugaboo is that DS uses Catmull-Clark subdivision at rendertime, so the actual mesh is low poly. Poser doesn't have CC, but another form with more limited function. However, if you upgrade to 2012, you can convert =all= previous Poser content to weightmapping. V4 is nearing completion in that regard; Nerd3D has already released an injection that give V4 WM (same rig; just a conversion from falloffs to maps). Phantom 3D is doing a re-rig and wm of V4. All the morphs will still work, but the figure will be somewhat 'lighter', as all the JCMs and magnets built into her that forcing P4 joint structure on her caused will be stripped out. There is also indications that V3 is in the pool for at least mapping, and possibly rerigging. Phantom is also working on Brad (fully wm), and since M4 is based on the same mesh as V4, simply transferring the base mapping and correcting the errors is also being looked into. Seriously.

What app fits your work style and pipeline is the one you should concentrate on. But be very aware that previous dynamics have been trashed. The G thing does not work in Poser. There is no new V thing or M thing on the immediate horizon. At least some of the legacy Poser content will not work well or at all in DS. And the Poser community is acting kinda like it did 15 years ago; creativity is on the loose once again, and people are taking whats there and running with it, not just waiting to sink a thousand dollars into the newest V thing and morphs and clothes and etc. Look at what Blackhearted did with Alyson 2 (look up Anastasia in the marketplace, one of his GND series). Antonia has been released, and she bends better than any previous figure. There is at least 3 other female and two new male figures in the works by various content creators, all Poser 9-2012 specific. Or like Antonia, there will be a 'standard' that will work in all versions, and a weightmapped for the latest Poser.

You have options, now. Be cautious. Don't jump at the first new shiny someone waves under your nose. And don't wreck your project just because of app evangalists on either side of the growing divide. But do take a long gander and ask yourself which group is still adhering to known industry standards, and which one is pulling things more to an incompatible standard that will cost you $$ to export to anything with a decently fast render engine.

"The major bugaboo is that DS uses Catmull-Clark subdivision at rendertime, so the actual mesh is low poly."

"But do take a long gander and ask yourself which group is still adhering to known industry standards, and which one is pulling things more to an incompatible standard that will cost you $$ to export to anything with a decently fast render engine."

These are two major issues for me, Dale B. I'm a long-time Poser user using V3 and V4, and I've been playing with Genesis for a couple weeks now, and have to say that it is a fantastic model and system--the flexibility and realism of the figure is amazing, plus the way that it resizes the clothing and hair with no fuss is like a dream.

Unforturnately, the low-poly mesh that is smoothed at render time in DS means that when it is exported (as an obj) to another program like Cinema 4D, where I do my rendering, the mesh looks worse than V4, and for an animator like myself, DS's limited lighting and slow render time (not to mention zero modeling capabilities and no hair) mean I couldn't even think of rendering a project there--plus the proprietary .dsb files for textures that you can't open and customize in Photoshop (which I do all the time with Poser-friendly jpg texture files) are another instance of DS trying to make you stay in DS only and use only official DS content rather than trying to make it compatible with other programs.

Not that Poser has gone out of its way to be compatible with other programs, either, tho they did once have a free plugin for Cinema 4D (now defunct since it only worked in Mac OS9), and there is InterPoser Pro, which allows one to get Poser-hosted Daz content into C4D--I can't credit Poser for IPP, of course, but at least it can exist: Poser uses more industry-standard files and systems, while the more I learn about the increasingly proprietary way DS works, the more I think that it simply couldn't work with other programs, even if they tried, and it's a shame, since they've always made great figures, Genesis included, which I would love to use, but I'm afraid it looks like this is where we part ways.

You should also check the commons in the DAZ forums and look for the problems with the Genesis/V5/M5 figures and morphs that are being reported. Ignore the glowing reports, you don't really care what works well, it's where you're going to have problems that are more important. If you feel you can work with the reported problems, work around them, then fine. If not, treat like a toxic substance. Promo pictures mean exactly nothing, nobody is going to put out a promo that shows problems. Or, what you really need to know, they're going to hide. DS4 basic is free, the basic Genesis figure comes with it, costs nothing to give a try. V4/M4 will work in DS4, as will the morphs++ with those figures. As will any other version of V/M. Genesis is only a figure concept, not discrete figures, but a one figure does everything, so far, just not very well.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

tvining,

Not really sure what you mean when you say “.dsb files for textures” Daz studio uses Jpeg files for textures just like Poser, always has. If you’re talking about the Material files that’s something else. In DS you save a file as a .dsb or .dsa file, .dsb file are compiled and .dsa files are text files that can be edited. The reason for the .dsb file that they’re much smaller size than the dsa files and most people wouldn’t know how to edit the dsa files.

Quote - Not that Poser has gone out of its way to be compatible with other programs, either, tho they did once have a free plugin for Cinema 4D (now defunct since it only worked in Mac OS9), and there is InterPoser Pro, which allows one to get Poser-hosted Daz content into C4D--I can't credit Poser for IPP, of course, but at least it can exist: Poser uses more industry-standard files and systems, while the more I learn about the increasingly proprietary way DS works, the more I think that it simply couldn't work with other programs, even if they tried, and it's a shame, since they've always made great figures, Genesis included, which I would love to use, but I'm afraid it looks like this is where we part ways.

tvining - Poser Pro 2010 & 2012 comes with PoserFusion which allows you to open Poser scene files in C4D, in addition to other softwares. I've tried the 2012 version with R13 and it works at least with V4. Also you can open Poser scene files in Vue so I'm not sure what you mean about Poser going out of their way to not be compatible.

Be mad...until proven genius.

Sitting quietly in the corner does not make one the class fool.

- Didi

RDNA Store

Quote - ...If you have an investment in dynamic clothing for Poser, it will not work in DS, any version. DS also does not support dynamic hair, any version. and DS dynamics will not work in poser. Weight mapping for Poser, I don't believe works in DS.

...

PrecisionXXX - DS dynamics works in Poser as long as you export an obj file from DS.

Be mad...until proven genius.

Sitting quietly in the corner does not make one the class fool.

- Didi

RDNA Store

You won't get an honest view of DAZ Studio from this forum as it is heavily Poser biased.I would suggest you take a look at the forums on the DAZ site for a much more balanced view.

Quote -

You won't get an honest view of DAZ Studio from this forum as it is heavily Poser biased.I would suggest you take a look at the forums on the DAZ site for a much more balanced view.

Wouldn't the forums on DAZ have the same biased view from the DS4 side?

Quote -

You won't get an honest view of DAZ Studio from this forum as it is heavily Poser biased.I would suggest you take a look at the forums on the DAZ site for a much more balanced view.

actually, here is about the only place that you will get a balanced opinion on the pro's and con's of each app.

censorship of posts is nowhere near enforced as much here as it now is at DAZ3D.

daz3d commons forum would be totally biased towards DS.

"Genesis is only a figure concept, not discrete figures, but a one figure does everything, so far, just not very well."

Are we really going to do this AGAIN? We just managed to calm things down after the last two wars.

"actually, here is about the only place that you will get a balanced opinion on the pro's and con's of each app."

LOL, uh yeah you'll forgive me if I have to politely disagree with that.

To the OP: Really, just try Studio and see if you like it. If not, stay with what you have.

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

tvining wrote:

Quote - plus the proprietary .dsb files for textures that you can't open and customize in Photoshop (which I do all the time with Poser-friendly jpg texture files) are another instance of DS trying to make you stay in DS only and use only official DS content rather than trying to make it compatible with other programs.

What products don't come with jpg textures? Everything I have from DAZ comes with jpg textures that I can open in Photoshop.

Spreading misinformation like this is part of what causes problems.

Coldrake

I'd prefer this not become another Daz vs Poser thread. The person who posted originally wanted to know what the differences were between the Genesis system and conventional Poser figures and the advantages and disadvantages. Each program has it's pluses and minuses, nothing's perfect. There is no reason to fight about which is better, each person needs to decide what's best for them.

Grey_cat, Coldrake (et al): sorry about that, I was confused with how the DS textures worked, and where they lived in the DS folders--I found the jpgs after this was pointed out and they are fine in Photoshop--not intentional misinformation! Well, that's certainly better as regards DS.

Also, Witchdidi, I had forgotten about Poserfusion, since I've been using IPP for so long (I think it may have not existed when I first went to IPP)--just downloaded it for my Poser Pro and it does seem to work as advertised. That said, IPP seems to work better for my purposes, since I can edit the figure in C4D and can keep a "base" figure in C4D with all the clothing, morphs etc. and just export a pose from Poser rather than having to open the Poser figure each time in C4D. Also, with IPP, the figure mesh "lives" in C4D, so you can add hair and even do some mesh tweaking there. I can't say if the new Poserfusion 2012 and C4D13 works any different/better since I haven't used those versions.

Ultimately, I just hope Genesis and Poser eventually work together as well as V3 & V4 etc. Genesis is amazingly cool, and it's a drag not being able to use it in Poser and/or Cinema 4D.

Quote - "Genesis is only a figure concept, not discrete figures, but a one figure does everything, so far, just not very well."

Are we really going to do this AGAIN? We just managed to calm things down after the last two wars.

.

Let me put it this way then. DS4 is a program in development still, which was designed to handle the figures built on the Genesis base. The genesis is not a complete figure in that it is very restricted in what can be done without a character designed ON THE GENESIS BASE. I can see no problems in someone attempting to define exactly what Genesis is, a concept requiring the addition of other software to be of it's full use. V5 is a morph made for Genesis. M5 is a morph made for Genesis. They are not stand alone figures, they require Genesis. I have no more problems with that than with Nickolas requiring M4 and the morphs++. What seems to be the problem with stating the fact of how it is?

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

"What seems to be the problem with stating the fact of how it is?"

My only issue was with the "not very well" part. Some people like to say that because Genesis tries to do it all, it doesn't do anything well. You don't have to buy V5 or the Legacy V4/M4/David morphs for Genesis to be useful, all you really need are the Evolution head and body morph sets, which you'd have to for the equivalent of any other figure out there anyway).

The only thing Genesis doesn't do all that well right now is work in Poser. Anyway, thanks for clarifying what you meant.

SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

tvining,

I hope you didn't think I was saying it was misinformation. I think it's totally unfair to call something misinformation when it's only confusion about one aspect or another in Poser or DS. The problem isn’t misinformation, but people going over the top with their opinions.

P.S. Love your movie

Quote - "What seems to be the problem with stating the fact of how it is?"

My only issue was with the "not very well" part. Some people like to say that because Genesis tries to do it all, it doesn't do anything well. You don't have to buy V5 or the Legacy V4/M4/David morphs for Genesis to be useful, all you really need are the Evolution head and body morph sets, which you'd have to for the equivalent of any other figure out there anyway).

The only thing Genesis doesn't do all that well right now is work in Poser. Anyway, thanks for clarifying what you meant.

SnowS

Okay, however, part of what I'm trying involves an elementary school of the one room type where you have grades one through eight. (I went to one of them.) Now, trying to reproduce the way kids in that range move, it becomes obvious that there is no figure that will bend like kids do. I see some things called extreme bends, which for a mesh may be. For some one six or seven years, it's a normal bend. In this regard, whether I used the Genesis figure or Penny would make no difference, they're both going to fall apart. However, maybe due to unfamiliarity with undocumented software, I find the Genesis not as easy to pose and get an acceptable result. For an end result that isn't what I want, more work than many other figures would be, I still say, not very well. I do not have the cr2 exporter, or any morphs, and as I'm not getting along with DS, it wouldn't make any sense to spend the money at this time.

THis is a time of change, when several developments are being brought to a usable state. I do not believe the end result is going to be any of the individual developments that are out there, but a compromise between many, allowing the use of many. Genesis will probably be one of the ephemerals. Here, flower, for a while, then as in it's present state, unable to adapt to other improvements, and gone. The end result will be something different from what exists now, and something still to come.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

Quote - You don't need the Pro package to run genesis. Advanced is going to cost you around the same price as Poser 9. The OP hasn't bought Morphs++ for the M4 or V4, so he will need to buy that or just the Evolution morphs for genesis... so it's about the same in cost. The $500 part comes in if you want the content developer kit with the rigging tools and zbrush and photoshop bridges.

Advanced is gonna run you $229.95 And P9 will run you about $150 at Amazon. The cost for the V4/M4 morphs will run you almost $30 But that is a moot point, because the author already owns P8, and V/M4, something I found out after I posted! (Yeah, brain fart, so sue me!)

You're right, you don't need the Pro package to run Genesis, you don't even need Advanced, all you need is $46.47 for the G5/Gen4 morphs...Oh, and a computing device! ;^)

Quote - I don't think it's wise to give advice to buy something now on the hope that the thing you may want to use is eventually supported. That's like buying 4 tires for a car that you hope you can drive... the tires may not even be the right size, but you told someone to just buy it.

But it all comes down with what you want to work with and go from there.

Not really, because unlike tires, they are dependent on having a vehicle to put them on, whereas The genesis figure and D|S can be purchased seperately from Poser and V4. So my point was, to simply wait til the overall price came down on Genesis/D|S before they made a purchase with the condition that they did not have the money. Because it was much more expensive to purchase a Genesis/ D|S combo.

Which is moot anyways because I already realized that the OP, has V/M4 and poser 8 already, I was actually responsing to a poster rather than the OP, A brain-fart, and a misunderstanding on my part. Meh, there are worse things.

As it now stands, it's not much more expensive to go the Genesis/D|S @ $46 route vs the V/M 4 @ $29+ change, but that's up to the OP.

I couldnt help but LOL at this..

Balanced view of Daz studio on the Daz forums...

....

really?

Quote -

You won't get an honest view of DAZ Studio from this forum as it is heavily Poser biased.I would suggest you take a look at the forums on the DAZ site for a much more balanced view.

DAZ Studio Advance is available in both 32 bit and 64 bit, Poser 9 is only 32 bit.

Quote - DAZ Studio Advance is available in both 32 bit and 64 bit, Poser 9 is only 32 bit.

Err.

DS4 Standard is 32bit only. If you want 64bit you need to go to Advanced at least.

Poser 9 is 32bit only. If you want 64bit you need to go to Poser Pro 2012.

You can't compare Poser 9 and DS4A.

Same as you can't compare DS4 Standard with Poser Pro 2012.

You can compare Poser 9 and DS4 Standard, however, as both of those are the entry level.

Silke

Silke wrote:

Quote - You can't compare Poser 9 and DS4A. Same as you can't compare DS4 Standard with Poser Pro 2012.

You can compare Poser 9 and DS4 Standard, however, as both of those are the entry level.

Actually Poser Debut is entry level.

DAZ Studio 4 Standard = Poser Debut = Entry level

DAZ Studio 4 Advanced = Poser 9 = Intermediate

DAZ Studio 4 Pro = Poser Pro 2012 = Professional

Coldrake

I thought the upcoming web version was the entry level DS?

No, that's just a web app, there's no Poser equivilant forthcoming that I know of. The list I made above are the correct comparisons.

Coldrake

Quote - No, that's just a web app, there's no Poser equivilant forthcoming that I know of. The list I made above are the correct comparisons.

Coldrake

That is your opinion. I consider Debut a limited poser version - just like the web app

But I think the feature sets are all too different to make a one on one comparision and it would leave one DS4 version out

Daz Studio 4 pro is probably most equivalent to Poser Pro 2012 as it it geared to content creators.

Although it seems to be ok so far.. please keep the topic to what the OP asked for. Do not start "Mine is better than yours". Give information you feel is useful to them.

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Quote - > Quote - No, that's just a web app, there's no Poser equivilant forthcoming that I know of. The list I made above are the correct comparisons.

Coldrake

That is your opinion. I consider Debut a limited poser version - just like the web app

But I think the feature sets are all too different to make a one on one comparision and it would leave one DS4 version out

I guess we'll have to disagree. I consider DAZ Studio 4 Standard a limited DAZ Studio version. Feature wise and price wise I believe I made the correct comparisons. The web app is basically a something to play with online to show what can be done in DAZ Studio and to introduce people to 3D. In no way can it be compared to a $50 downloadable program.

Coldrake

I know those comparisons are more comfortable as they favor your prefered software but no, I wouldnt say they are really correct comparisons. Poser debut is not from the same 'batch' of programs as P9 or pp2012. It is based off of poser 8, from my understanding, so would maybe be more fair to compare it to something in the DS3 line. I would hope an updated poser debut for the current generation is in the works but I havent heard anything to that effect yet.

Quote - No, that's just a web app, there's no Poser equivilant forthcoming that I know of. The list I made above are the correct comparisons.

Coldrake

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - No, that's just a web app, there's no Poser equivilant forthcoming that I know of. The list I made above are the correct comparisons.

Coldrake

That is your opinion. I consider Debut a limited poser version - just like the web app

But I think the feature sets are all too different to make a one on one comparision and it would leave one DS4 version out

I guess we'll have to disagree. I consider DAZ Studio 4 Standard a limited DAZ Studio version. Feature wise and price wise I believe I made the correct comparisons. The web app is basically a something to play with online to show what can be done in DAZ Studio and to introduce people to 3D. In no way can it be compared to a $50 downloadable program.

Coldrake

Since i have not seen the web app I cannot comment on it. I think DS4 standard lies somewhere between Debut and P9, PP2012 is comparable to the pro DS4. But feature wise they are all completely different. It is like comparing apples and oranges, but are fruit but taste completely different

Quote -

I know those comparisons are more comfortable as they favor your prefered software but no, I wouldnt say they are really correct comparisons. Poser debut is not from the same 'batch' of programs as P9 or pp2012. It is based off of poser 8, from my understanding, so would maybe be more fair to compare it to something in the DS3 line. I would hope an updated poser debut for the current generation is in the works but I havent heard anything to that effect yet.

Quote - No, that's just a web app, there's no Poser equivilant forthcoming that I know of. The list I made above are the correct comparisons.

Coldrake

I was just comparing what is available at the moment.

wimvdb, while both programs have features the other doesn't, for the most part they do the same things, albeit some of them in different ways.

By the way, the web app is a browser version.

Coldrake

Quote - Unforturnately, the low-poly mesh that is smoothed at render time in DS means that when it is exported (as an obj) to another program like Cinema 4D, where I do my rendering, the mesh looks worse than V4...

You don't have to export the base, low-poly mesh, You can export it at any subdivision level you want.

Genesis loads with one level of subdivision already applied. If you want to export the low-poly version (for creating morphs or whatnot), you have to set the subdivision level to zero. But if you want a higher-resolution mesh, you can set the subdivision level at 1, 2, or whatever.

Thanks, blondie9999, I didn't realize that was even an option--it's kind of hidden away, but I found a thread that showed how. I gave it a try and it looks great when I export the mesh as an obj and bring it into C4D. I have to say, this has been very illuminating--I made a number of assumptions about Genesis/DS that I'm happy to be corrected about! I'll continue to test it out.

(PS: thanks Grey_cat! Glad you liked the movie.)

Hi tvining, do you get better results from DS subd than Cinema's subd?

I've played with the FBX export to get a base genesis (plus morphs) into C4D and could see no difference, in the smoothness, after using hypernurbs!

Loved the movie too, more lens flare in the next one please:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

regards
prixat

Hey, Prixat,

I've only really worked with the obj export, mostly in C4Dv10. I haven't tried the fbx yet--I understand that works best with C4D13(?). I plan to give it a try when I upgrade--having the morphs available in C4D would be nice--closer to IPP, which I'm used to. Exporting as an obj at the higher DS subd looked as good as I could want, as far as I could see. I'll try an obj with hypernurbs next time I mess with this--might be interesting.

(laughing) More lens flare? I have to say that's probably the most specific request I've gotten. I'll certainly give it a try. ;-)

I'm not stuck on one program-or strongly anti anything. I am really enjoying PPro2012!

One of the things I most admired with Genesis was the natural bending- which is largely due to weight mapping. P9/Pro2012 have weight mapping. The free figure AntoniaWM- bends very well-and efforts are ongoing to Weight map V4- look at the RDNA forums for examples-she is approaching Genesis in natural bending. For me-the ability to morph one mesh into anything-is interesting-and impressive-but not absolutely compelling

Since I use multiple software packages as it is-I thought I'd give Genesis a "spin" with the free version of DS4 a few months ago. I was impressed-but not with the rendering. I understood DS4 Advanced was able to use Image based lighting, HDRI, etc.

Comment: I took advantage of sale and Plat Club and bought Studio4Advanced a few days ago. Unfortunately, it is a crashomatic- on my Mac.It took me 4 tries to load and texture V5 (Genesis)- then the UberSurface render was black.

My suggested solution is to upgrade to Mac OSX 10.7- but that would make other programs I use-crash. It seems to be stable on SOME Mac's with 10.7- and not others.

If you run an INTEL PC with the latest versions of Windows-you'll probably be OK. I understand AMD is a no go- but that is only a light survey on my part.

If I can get a refund for DS4Advanced- I'll keep V5 and play in the free version-I can always export to another program to render.

DAZ Studio runs fine on AMD based systems, both there CPUs and GPUs.

All I have is AMD, and processing power and GPUs were no issue (at least with up to date drivers). No documentation, a craptastic UI, a functional lack of dynamics (if I have to buy a separate program, which -also- has a UI that is....poorly designed, shall we say? to get dynamic hair, and a plugin that restricts my dynamic cloth to whatever the the parent company deigns to provide and little else, then the features don't functionally exist), and a continuation of 3 previous never-got-out-of-beta versions development plan. Those were the big issues regarding DS4 imnsho. The genesis figure system has potential, but as long as it is bound to their app, and forces you to find some way to make it work if your system doesn't like it, then frankly it is largely a non-starter for the Poser-centric crowd.

Which is proving to be a good thing, as said crowd is rediscovering that 'old' does not mean 'useless'. That the past 15 years of content can be brought to a functional standard that lets them stand together in the same scene and not look out of place.

Quote - I'm not stuck on one program-or strongly anti anything. I am really enjoying PPro2012!

One of the things I most admired with Genesis was the natural bending- which is largely due to weight mapping. P9/Pro2012 have weight mapping. The free figure AntoniaWM- bends very well-and efforts are ongoing to Weight map V4- look at the RDNA forums for examples-she is approaching Genesis in natural bending. For me-the ability to morph one mesh into anything-is interesting-and impressive-but not absolutely compelling

Since I use multiple software packages as it is-I thought I'd give Genesis a "spin" with the free version of DS4 a few months ago. I was impressed-but not with the rendering. I understood DS4 Advanced was able to use Image based lighting, HDRI, etc.

Comment: I took advantage of sale and Plat Club and bought Studio4Advanced a few days ago. Unfortunately, it is a crashomatic- on my Mac.It took me 4 tries to load and texture V5 (Genesis)- then the UberSurface render was black.

My suggested solution is to upgrade to Mac OSX 10.7- but that would make other programs I use-crash. It seems to be stable on SOME Mac's with 10.7- and not others.

If you run an INTEL PC with the latest versions of Windows-you'll probably be OK. I understand AMD is a no go- but that is only a light survey on my part.

If I can get a refund for DS4Advanced- I'll keep V5 and play in the free version-I can always export to another program to render.

I have a i7 Macbook pro with 10.6 and Windows 7 machine with a core duo2 quad processor and DS4 works on both; haven't had the issues of crashing or ubersurface that you have had. And the later versions of DS4 has been a lot more stable with surface settings than the earlier versions.

But the when people compare Genesis with Poser 9/2012, the first thing they say is "Well poser has weight mapping too." Genesis is NOT about the weight mapping... it is about the morphs and what you can do with it. The weightmapping comes in when you talk about how what you create bends. That is the big difference. With Gen4 characters, most of the morphing stayed at the head, because if you tried to morph the body, then either you would have to create clothing that fit the new morphs, create magnets, or have have clothing that have those fits in them. Even extreme morphs, such as heavy, had issues because you would have poke through. Dimension3D's morphing clothes was a good investment because not every clothing item that you bought may not have all the morphs that you would use, and even then, I've had issues with inner thigh poke through. Also custom body shapes may need quite a few JCMs to fix issues when they bend as well.

I've found in Genesis that if I can change the way the body looks, such as if i think the thighs are too big, breasts aren't perky enough, needs longer or shorter legs or chest, or the butt or sternum needs to be adjusted I can change it and I don't have to ask content providers to make clothing for my new morph or learn how to make fits myself. The clothing still fits... and that's a big thing for those that don't like to work with making clothing fits and allows people to be more creative with their characters. You can make characters with hooved feet or alien bodies, or cartoon character and not have to worry about how much support that character gets from clothing creators.

Well said, Dale B. PP2012 giving us the ability to add weight mapping will give new life to many of the older figures as more people become proficient. Anyone remembering Yamato and Ran-Ran, Can-Can, or Judy and An-An, those were done before any weight mapping was available, giving a kick to Posey and Judy. Lack of support in clothing was probably more of a factor in their not still being in the front than lack of usability of the figures. Nobody can say they won't be revisited and come out with figures that are up to speed in every way.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

Quote - With Gen4 characters, most of the morphing stayed at the head, because if you tried to morph the body, then either you would have to create clothing that fit the new morphs, create magnets, or have have clothing that have those fits in them. Even extreme morphs, such as heavy, had issues because you would have poke through. Dimension3D's morphing clothes was a good investment because not every clothing item that you bought may not have all the morphs that you would use, and even then, I've had issues with inner thigh poke through. Also custom body shapes may need quite a few JCMs to fix issues when they bend as well.

Therein lies the best argument for a workable, functional dynamic cloth you could have made. I use the Gen 3 figures quite a bit, and I have Adam Thwaite's (I believe) breast morphs for the PT girl. I'm not above trying cloth designed for another figure on her, nor above exporting the .obj and doing a little creative butchery on it. But I have largely dial spun morphs for the PT that put her in the somewhere of the area of 17 to 19 years, and no poke through. Most cloth for V3 needs little alteration if any, and there are a lot of times the reverse is true, using PT clothing on V3 usually only needs scaling before the sim. Taking conforming cloth converted to a .obj may have mixed results, but beyond a few minutes to try it, nothing lost if it doesn't work and I don't want to mess with it. There is still a lot of life left in the older figures without being forced to jump through the DS4 hoops to make it work. Genesis is only one of many developments that are still in process, as is Genesis itself. Who knows what's being worked on and not discussed? DS and Genesis are not the "be all-end all", probably more like an intermediate step on the way to the next development. As can be said for all of them, any one of these steps may well be nothing more than a diversion from the direction that will eventually become the dominant factor.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

Quote - Therein lies the best argument for a workable, functional dynamic cloth you could have made. I use the Gen 3 figures quite a bit, and I have Adam Thwaite's (I believe) breast morphs for the PT girl. I'm not above trying cloth designed for another figure on her, nor above exporting the .obj and doing a little creative butchery on it. But I have largely dial spun morphs for the PT that put her in the somewhere of the area of 17 to 19 years, and no poke through. Most cloth for V3 needs little alteration if any, and there are a lot of times the reverse is true, using PT clothing on V3 usually only needs scaling before the sim. Taking conforming cloth converted to a .obj may have mixed results, but beyond a few minutes to try it, nothing lost if it doesn't work and I don't want to mess with it.

However, that cloth needs a base shape to work from so that the cloth fits the right places. If i want that same cloth to fix a extreme creature morph that is much larger than what the cloth is made for, it's not going to work as well. Besides, how many complex pieces of dynamic clothing have you found that matches a conforming outfit, like armor?

Quote - There is still a lot of life left in the older figures without being forced to jump through the DS4 hoops to make it work. Genesis is only one of many developments that are still in process, as is Genesis itself. Who knows what's being worked on and not discussed? DS and Genesis are not the "be all-end all", probably more like an intermediate step on the way to the next development. As can be said for all of them, any one of these steps may well be nothing more than a diversion from the direction that will eventually become the dominant factor.

I still use M4 for some renders, however for some of my characters like one of the young adult characters I made, I spent months asking around for someone to actually make an outfit that would work for his smaller frame. Also we've been asking for a David 4 type character with scaling... however that character would need someone to have support to make clothing for it or fits for it's morphs. In those cases, unless someone steps in to support it, it's pretty much the end of the line as far as those characters go. Weightmapping won't solve those issues, because that only pertains to how a character bends, not how clothing fits when i throw a non-standard or scaled morph at it. Take for instance Anastasia. It's based off of weightmapped Alyson 2. However, if you want clothes to fit her, you need to get the Wardrobe Wizard plugin for her because normal Alyson clothing won't fit. If you vary that shape any more, like if a morph pack is made for her, then you'll need to look into more plugins for those shapes or jump through hoops in 2012's toolset to get the clothing to fit.

The idea behind genesis is far less loops: what fits the base, fits the rest. Granted for extreme morphs, adjusting would be required for the outfit to look good. If i take genesis into Zbrush and sculpt it and bring it back, scale body parts and save the characters back, clothing will fit without me having to look for solutions to have the clothing fits. That's no loops at all. Now if you're talking about using an exporter to get it to Poser, we're talking about something different, because you aren't using the Genesis system at all... you're trying to make something work into something that it wasn't designed. And using an alternative method that achieves that is going to more time than adopting the actual system.

Quote - The idea behind genesis is far less loops: what fits the base, fits the rest. Granted for extreme morphs, adjusting would be required for the outfit to look good. If i take genesis into Zbrush and sculpt it and bring it back, scale body parts and save the characters back, clothing will fit without me having to look for solutions to have the clothing fits. That's no loops at all. Now if you're talking about using an exporter to get it to Poser, we're talking about something different, because you aren't using the Genesis system at all... you're trying to make something work into something that it wasn't designed. And using an alternative method that achieves that is going to more time than adopting the actual system.

To go back to some of what fell to snippage, armor, for those that use it, okay, but for me, that and all the skimpware fantasy, I don't have any. Not my thing. Hoops, the biggest hoop to jump through is DS4 itself in any of the many temporary in beta iterations so far released. OR, the smallest hoop, the hardest one to get past is the program which was designed to support the Genesis figure. And you have Genesis, the "be all-end all", what need would you have for a David 4? Genesis, by your own words, is so much supererior, so much easier to use, any thought of a David 4 would seem to be heresy.

I have V4 and M4, morphs for exactly two characters that I sometimes use. I also have Judy and Don, I would say I use them probably ten times as much as any other figures. Now with Antonia WM, I can see where Judy will be used less, probably V4 not at all. Granted, not much support for her, yet. But what clothing is available, I think I've passed exactly one download of what has been offered. What is important in what you do, you have to remember, is specific to you only as also applies to what is important to me.

There was also a five year period that I used only P5, and a small amount of content, maybe three CD's worth. The reason, I wasn't on line at all, voluntarily that way. In that time, I learned to work in the face room fairly well, the cloth room a little, playing with some of the other functions that worked, but not all that well. I had, and still have, a couple early versions of DS, but after an initial trial, they lived on CD and not in a computer. I now have DS3A and DS4 free version, both installed on a computer that I never do anything I'm serious about. For another week or so, when I get a new computer, that one becomes my internet box and nothing else. DS4 will not be reinstalled, there is no need for my use.

And were I in the middle of a project, as the OP stated, switching to DS now would be exceeding foolish. He's already using P8, I believe, familiar with it, which means the nonexistent documentation for DS might as well be written in Sumerian linear A. The number of newbie threads in the commons asking for help trying to get DS to recognize there is new content attests to how intuitive it is to use. Of course, they could always refer to the documentation, maybe in 2022 or later. "This feature coming soon" doesn't help.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

Quote - To go back to some of what fell to snippage, armor, for those that use it, okay, but for me, that and all the skimpware fantasy, I don't have any. Not my thing.

Hoops, the biggest hoop to jump through is DS4 itself in any of the many temporary in beta iterations so far released. OR, the smallest hoop, the hardest one to get past is the program which was designed to support the Genesis figure. And you have Genesis, the "be all-end all", what need would you have for a David 4? Genesis, by your own words, is so much supererior, so much easier to use, any thought of a David 4 would seem to be heresy.

When I referred to David 4, I spoke of before genesis. So genesis does in effect make him, and stephanie obsolete, since the scaling and body types those characters bring are no longer needed.

Quote - I have V4 and M4, morphs for exactly two characters that I sometimes use. I also have Judy and Don, I would say I use them probably ten times as much as any other figures. Now with Antonia WM, I can see where Judy will be used less, probably V4 not at all. Granted, not much support for her, yet. But what clothing is available, I think I've passed exactly one download of what has been offered. What is important in what you do, you have to remember, is specific to you only as also applies to what is important to me.

There was also a five year period that I used only P5, and a small amount of content, maybe three CD's worth. The reason, I wasn't on line at all, voluntarily that way. In that time, I learned to work in the face room fairly well, the cloth room a little, playing with some of the other functions that worked, but not all that well. I had, and still have, a couple early versions of DS, but after an initial trial, they lived on CD and not in a computer. I now have DS3A and DS4 free version, both installed on a computer that I never do anything I'm serious about. For another week or so, when I get a new computer, that one becomes my internet box and nothing else. DS4 will not be reinstalled, there is no need for my use.

And were I in the middle of a project, as the OP stated, switching to DS now would be exceeding foolish. He's already using P8, I believe, familiar with it, which means the nonexistent documentation for DS might as well be written in Sumerian linear A. The number of newbie threads in the commons asking for help trying to get DS to recognize there is new content attests to how intuitive it is to use. Of course, they could always refer to the documentation, maybe in 2022 or later. "This feature coming soon" doesn't help.

But the main point of this conversation is choice in characters, not features of a program. Yes, the OP has poser 8, but he doesn't have much render experience with either program, so either one is going to have a learning curve. Using any of the newer characters is going to require an investment into an upgrade to either DS4 or Poser 9/2012. So it really comes down to which characters are going to serve his/her particular needs now and going forward, not cloth room, SSS, and the such. On the female side, there are many options available, but not so on the male side.

There isn't much choice for the genesis male either. I counted 8 items in the DAZ store (meshes, not texture sets). The M4, D3, M3 can be added if you buy the autofit addon.

For the figures which work in Poser there is probably a bit more if you take the M4, D3 and M3 and include the James and other figures

With no documentation for DS4, and an entirely different system, basic program, method of use, that makes DS the better choice? I think not. The learning curve for DS is nearly as steep and long as that for Blender. Poser at least has fairly decent documentation included, a huge improvement from the "manual" they sent with P5 which was more confusion than use. Infinitely better than DS, which is, "Figure it out yourself".

I'm not a fan of "V-things" or "M-things", I may use them when I'm forced to, but that's getting to be less and less. DS4 has a free version, but V5 is far too expensive for me to look at, considering there isn't any way to use her beyond DS conveniently. And DS does very little without the infusion of large amounts of money for the myriad plugins, that may not work with the next version. Third party solutions to deficiency in the basic program is not a viable solution. It's one that DAZ has no control over, and no guarantee it will continue. Anastasia and Antonia are indications of what might come next, I'm just waiting to see if SM will pick up the ball and run with it.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

Quote - There isn't much choice for the genesis male either. I counted 8 items in the DAZ store (meshes, not texture sets). The M4, D3, M3 can be added if you buy the autofit addon.

For the figures which work in Poser there is probably a bit more if you take the M4, D3 and M3 and include the James and other figures

Nothing really wrong with any of the Poser men after Dork, Dork being "Old Woodenface". I use Don a lot, James, he's the guy brought up on the wrong side of the tracks, but not always. The others, occasionally. M3 almost never, M4, as Nickolas, but beyond that, no use for M4.

Just took a look over on rdna at Poppy for Antonia by A_. Left money behind. A face that looks like a face, a real one, like you might actually see alive. Didn't need to look twice. Link is in the Antonia WM thread.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

Quote - With no documentation for DS4, and an entirely different system, basic program, method of use, that makes DS the better choice? I think not. The learning curve for DS is nearly as steep and long as that for Blender. Poser at least has fairly decent documentation included, a huge improvement from the "manual" they sent with P5 which was more confusion than use. Infinitely better than DS, which is, "Figure it out yourself".

I'm not a fan of "V-things" or "M-things", I may use them when I'm forced to, but that's getting to be less and less. DS4 has a free version, but V5 is far too expensive for me to look at, considering there isn't any way to use her beyond DS conveniently. And DS does very little without the infusion of large amounts of money for the myriad plugins, that may not work with the next version. Third party solutions to deficiency in the basic program is not a viable solution. It's one that DAZ has no control over, and no guarantee it will continue. Anastasia and Antonia are indications of what might come next, I'm just waiting to see if SM will pick up the ball and run with it.

But once again, we're not talking about program features... we're talking about characters. If you don't know enough about either program to render decently, but one has figures that I want to use over another, then I'll make the effort to learn the program that has what I want. You have no incentive to render if what you want to use isn't in it. Also, when you give examples, like there are no men mentioned. I don't render women... what are my options going forward? I have M4 and that pretty much works in everything. Ryan isn't viable, and Brad isn't finished. If I don't have men to render in my program, then the manual really means nothing. And for DS4 advanced (which is around the same price as P9), doesn't need any plugins to render. I have the HSS (which has SSS in it) and uberlighting which is included as well. If I want to buy plugins for Reality/Luxrender or Animate (which is a animation addon from what's included) I could get that and extends the program but aren't required. If i want to do landscapes, I can buy Infinito and add that in as well. But it's not a required purchase to do renders, so when people say I gotta buy addons I not sure what you mean.

And V5 isn't required either. If you want to use it, you have to buy it, like any other generation. And even if V5 was a standalone character for poser, you'd still have to buy it to use it, with any addons that came with it. I'm sure the same argument was made when V4 came out, where people said it's too expensive and I have enough investment in V3 so I don't need it.

Even with the females, there are issues to chose them over V4. Weightmapping, not a huge deal because the girl has to look good enough and look good when posed well enough to generate interest before we get to bending. Anastasia has a good start in that department, but she needs a complete morphing and expression replacement to supercede alyson's dials... and if SM was smart, they'd buy her out and do just that.... then contract out someone to fix Ryan in the same manner. V4 has that over the others, because you can use dials to make her into different looks and body types easily and there was a push behind her from a large company that invested in her. A online community that will easily be at each other's throats won't have that same effect to get things accomplished.

Quote - There isn't much choice for the genesis male either. I counted 8 items in the DAZ store (meshes, not texture sets). The M4, D3, M3 can be added if you buy the autofit addon.

Well that's a good argument why there isn't a flood of genesis items. I'm waiting on some male athletic shoes. Luckily I can autofit stuff, and I've found some freebies for D3 that I've brought in. However, that's probably much more stuff than in previous generations when figures like D3 or Luke 3 was introduced. Untill wardrobe wizard or crossdresser was released, how many outfits was available for those items?

Quote - > Quote - There isn't much choice for the genesis male either. I counted 8 items in the DAZ store (meshes, not texture sets). The M4, D3, M3 can be added if you buy the autofit addon.

Well that's a good argument why there isn't a flood of genesis items. I'm waiting on some male athletic shoes. Luckily I can autofit stuff, and I've found some freebies for D3 that I've brought in. However, that's probably much more stuff than in previous generations when figures like D3 or Luke 3 was introduced. Untill wardrobe wizard or crossdresser was released, how many outfits was available for those items?

You said there were more clothing options for male genesis as for male figures which can be used in Poser. That is not true

Quote - were more clothing options for male genesis as for male figures which can be used in Poser. That is not true

What i said that there were more options for genesis at it's release than for other figures at theirs. Autofit isn't perfect, but I can still pull in clothing from Gen4 and D3 than I could at M4. And I've always had issues with Gen3 clothing and the tear in the thigh region that needed manual fixing.

Quote - Even with the females, there are issues to chose them over V4. Weightmapping, not a huge deal because the girl has to look good enough and look good when posed well enough to generate interest before we get to bending. Anastasia has a good start in that department, but she needs a complete morphing and expression replacement to supercede alyson's dials... and if SM was smart, they'd buy her out and do just that.... then contract out someone to fix Ryan in the same manner. V4 has that over the others, because you can use dials to make her into different looks and body types easily and there was a push behind her from a large company that invested in her. A online community that will easily be at each other's throats won't have that same effect to get things accomplished.

Okay, so with DS4pro, you don't have to buy addons or plugins, because you already have. You have already also spent about $10 less than for a retail version of PP2012 and still no dynamic hair. I don't know what it comes with for content, but PP2012 comes with a ton. Not much of that of interest to me, but if I need a different setting, it's probably hiding in the content, or close enough that I can use it.

Females, maybe you didn't catch it, but I thought it sounded like I clothed my women, in something I wouldn't be ashamed to see my daughter wearing. Weird joints or awkward bends, I don't see once the clothing is on them.

V4, even with third party morphs to her, no matter what you do, she looks like V4, ditto for V3. Always what I call a "New York fashion model", portraying all the warmth of a continent sized iceberg. When I bought V4, it was part of a pack, I think around $50, which was reasonable. Bought a few characters for her, so much for impulse, haven't used any of them. I don't think Genesis or V5 would be any different, terrific for a month, then the realization setting in that they do not fit what I want for characters. If getting a morph to look like what I want is a DIY project, then I might as well work with what I already have.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

Quote - > Quote - were more clothing options for male genesis as for male figures which can be used in Poser. That is not true

What i said that there were more options for genesis at it's release than for other figures at theirs. Autofit isn't perfect, but I can still pull in clothing from Gen4 and D3 than I could at M4. And I've always had issues with Gen3 clothing and the tear in the thigh region that needed manual fixing.

You did not say the "at its release" part. And even then I doubt it

Quote - You did not say the "at its release" part. And even then I doubt it

Quote - Well that's a good argument why there isn't a flood of genesis items. I'm waiting on some male athletic shoes. Luckily I can autofit stuff, and I've found some freebies for D3 that I've brought in. However, that's probably much more stuff than in previous generations when figures like D3 or Luke 3 was introduced. Untill wardrobe wizard or crossdresser was released, how many outfits was available for those items?

Bolded in case you missed it.

Quote - > Quote - You did not say the "at its release" part. And even then I doubt it

Quote - Well that's a good argument why there isn't a flood of genesis items. I'm waiting on some male athletic shoes. Luckily I can autofit stuff, and I've found some freebies for D3 that I've brought in. However, that's probably much more stuff than in previous generations when figures like D3 or Luke 3 was introduced. Untill wardrobe wizard or crossdresser was released, how many outfits was available for those items?

Bolded in case you missed it.

You said that AFTER I made my post.

It is a total waste of time to argue with someone like you

I'm out

Quote - Okay, so with DS4pro, you don't have to buy addons or plugins, because you already have. You have already also spent about $10 less than for a retail version of PP2012 and still no dynamic hair. I don't know what it comes with for content, but PP2012 comes with a ton. Not much of that of interest to me, but if I need a different setting, it's probably hiding in the content, or close enough that I can use it.

People keep trying to throw people off the tracks with DS4 pro, when DS4 advanced is what i'm talking about. Pro has the content development tools, which is on par with Poser 2012; you don't need those plugins with Advanced either, which is on par pricewise with Poser 9. When you mention that, you make it seem like you're intentionally leading people to believe that it's several a few hundred more to do the exact thing when it simply isn't true. If I'm trying to keep it accurate, you should too. ;)

And as far as dynamic hair, I don't see that as a feature. There's not one piece of poser dynamic hair that doesn't look like frizzy fly-away stuff. If it was such a big advantage, I'd see more people actually using it. Now if we're talking about carrara hair... I'm actually updating my carrara to try that out. But still, we're talking characters, not program features.

Quote - Females, maybe you didn't catch it, but I thought it sounded like I clothed my women, in something I wouldn't be ashamed to see my daughter wearing. Weird joints or awkward bends, I don't see once the clothing is on them.

That's not what I said; I wasn't referring to clothing.

Quote - V4, even with third party morphs to her, no matter what you do, she looks like V4, ditto for V3. Always what I call a "New York fashion model", portraying all the warmth of a continent sized iceberg. When I bought V4, it was part of a pack, I think around $50, which was reasonable. Bought a few characters for her, so much for impulse, haven't used any of them. I don't think Genesis or V5 would be any different, terrific for a month, then the realization setting in that they do not fit what I want for characters. If getting a morph to look like what I want is a DIY project, then I might as well work with what I already have.

With any morph, if you don't work all the morph dials, then you are going to end up with the same character. However, V4 is harder to make individual morphs than M4... which is understandable since m4 took what was learned from V4 and improved on it. The same thing will occur with M5 or any other character that's made.

I've bought a few V4 outfits for renders for my characters, but not really a lot of female characters. I buy a lot of M4 outfits and things that work for him, less M4 characters since we create our own and I tend to morph men over martinis ;). However, I can do a lot more on the morph of genesis than with gen4 since I can change all aspects of the appearance from head to toe. But getting back to what the OP was talking about, he is making his characters, so he/she would be doing a lot of DIY. So although you may not want to do that, making characters is the OP's intention, so any information we give has to be geared toward that.

Quote - You said that AFTER I made my post.

It is a total waste of time to argue with someone like you

I'm out

LOL! You know if you actually looked up, you would have actually saw it. I just copied it from that previous post and bolded it for you.

Why you're mad, because you missed it... i don't know.

Quote - V4, even with third party morphs to her, no matter what you do, she looks like V4, ditto for V3.

NOT true. Do the morphs here look like V3?

http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/sci-fi-fantasy?item=3435

No, they don't.

If a figure is well-made to start with, it can be morphed into something that looks nothing like the base figure. If the morphs you're talking about "looked like V3" or "looked like V4," then I'd say that was the fault of the person creating the morphs, and not of the figure itself.

And while we're at it, do any of these morphs look like M3?

http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=4252

No, they don't. And do any of these look like V3?

http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=4260

No, they don't.

There are a lot of "character" makers out there who do nothing but spin a couple of dials and call the result a "character." Result? It pretty much looks like the base figure. Well, surprise, surprise! But that's a far cry from doing a truly original, sculpted morph. And if the result "looks like" the base figure, well, guess what?-- that's not the fault of the figure, but of the person creating the morph.

Going back and reading the original post, he was asking if he'd be better off to go with the morphs++ for M4/V4 or genesis, halfway into a project. He has morphs he likes. now, most up until you replied said stick with what he has and get the morphs++, I believe I responded with the majority.

However, here and in the daz forums, one of the biggest supporters of "dump poser, get DS4" is you. And one of the biggest insisters that DS4 can do anything better, even lacking decent dynamics in any area. One supplier, one designer, and IT WILL NEVER CHANGE. Optitex has had at least two years to show ANYTHING being done on a creation software, it hasn't happened, it should be evident it never will.

I have Antonia, the Advanced Morphs, now I have Poppy. The difference is this figure has REAL faces, the kind I see every day. She has a real body, the kind I see every day.

Clothing, how difficult is it to understand that if a bad looking joint is UNDER A DRESS, it makes no difference at all? The clothing is not the issue, the issue is that a bad looking bend or joint that can't be seen isn't a worry.

Enjoy your martini. I'm not into consuming the toxic byproducts of a fungal organism of decay. I like my food before it rots.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

The Op said he had D3 and M4 but didn't have the Morph++ sets, there was no talk of any other morphs. To be blunt I can't see how he has developed any characters with no morphs. Given that information then my recommendation would be Studio and Genesis. The expense would be about the same but with far greater character versatility. Does Poser have more, and in some cases better, features then Studio? To be honest I would have to answer yes, but will the OP need or use them? Only he can answer that after a fair comparison of the two programs.

Quote - Going back and reading the original post, he was asking if he'd be better off to go with the morphs++ for M4/V4 or genesis, halfway into a project. He has morphs he likes. now, most up until you replied said stick with what he has and get the morphs++, I believe I responded with the majority.

However, here and in the daz forums, one of the biggest supporters of "dump poser, get DS4" is you.

Exactly what post have I said to dump poser? There's been far more posts that have done the same things you have, where instead of talking about the characters, have veered into things such as dynamic clothes, hair and random functionality and said erroneous things such as you have to buy plugins for the same functionality to render in DS4.

What I have said is that for females going forward, you have lots of choices. But for men, there is fewer choices... and at this point, there's only fewer choices and if you want to use the latest male figure and you're going to invest into another program then you may want to look at DS4. That's isn't saying dump poser, but advocating something that's not going to do what he wants isnt' going to serve his purposes either.

Quote - And one of the biggest insisters that DS4 can do anything better, even lacking decent dynamics in any area. One supplier, one designer, and IT WILL NEVER CHANGE. Optitex has had at least two years to show ANYTHING being done on a creation software, it hasn't happened, it should be evident it never will.

Once again, I've talked about characters, not about application functionality. That's what you have been doing, and you do this again. Optitex being a supplier for DS affects what part of character creation?

Quote - I have Antonia, the Advanced Morphs, now I have Poppy. The difference is this figure has REAL faces, the kind I see every day. She has a real body, the kind I see every day.

You can create realistic bodies with any character. Getting support for those characters outside of simple dynamics is another matter. Unfortunately the difference between Antonia and Anastasia is night and day. You hear more major vendors lining up behind Anastasia. Unfortunately, to be honest, antonia has a PLAIN face at best. Her body shape is awkward, there isn't enough polys on her hands and arms so when she bends, it doesn't look realistic, and her feet... well i've yet to see a pose there where she can pose it on the floor as well as Anastasia or V4, and that's without weightmapping.

And that translates very visibly into what's available, how it looks, and what is being charged for her clothing. It's real early for Anastasia, but right now, she's got mostly tight, short, clingy outfits from what's she has available... but the clothes are more in cost than what's being offered for Antonia.

Quote - Enjoy your martini. I'm not into consuming the toxic byproducts of a fungal organism of decay. I like my food before it rots.

Classy. I guess you threw in the towel on this conversation as well if you have to resort to flinging insults. ;)

Quote - The Op said he had D3 and M4 but didn't have the Morph++ sets ...

Just to clarify the OP said:

I have Poser 2008.

He then said:

Yes, sorry. I have Poser 8.

*He then gave the impression he was in the middle of a project when he said:

I'm not anything close to a master in it, but have created a few characters I like for my project in David 3 and Michael 4.

Even after all the sqabbling I still think he should finish his project in what he has started it in and then think about alternatives once all the hype has died down. This is a win win for him. His project will be finished much quicker and he will be in a better position to judge the realities of the situation as we are currently undergoing a period of transition and what is available for Poser today may not be the same tomorrow.

I think perhaps some people would do well to actually think of the person asking the question rather than concentrating on their own agendas as vendors of the other site.

Quote - > Quote - The Op said he had D3 and M4 but didn't have the Morph++ sets ...

Just to clarify the OP said:

I have Poser 2008.

He then said:

Yes, sorry. I have Poser 8.

*He then gave the impression he was in the middle of a project when he said:

I'm not anything close to a master in it, but have created a few characters I like for my project in David 3 and Michael 4.

Even after all the sqabbling I still think he should finish his project in what he has started it in and then think about alternatives once all the hype has died down. This is a win win for him. His project will be finished much quicker and he will be in a better position to judge the realities of the situation as we are currently undergoing a period of transition and what is available for Poser today may not be the same tomorrow.

I think perhaps some people would do well to actually think of the person asking the question rather than concentrating on their own agendas as vendors of the other site.

Right, and that goes for the same that have an axe to grind against other companies as well.

Blondie, if they do or don't, the only way I'd know is to buy them and try them. Before I go further, I have no bias against people of color at all, I worked side by side with a lot of them for some 40 years, doing exactly the same thing I was, with the same degree of competence. But faces and figures that I have no interest in are not going to get a single dime from me, and that includes africans. SciFi fantasy, less interest, yes, they're different, but to me, also useless. Someone else must have liked them or they wouldn't have been created, but that they exist doesn't mean I have to have any interest in them. I don't know any men or women that have the perfection in either their faces or bodies as the morphs have, I can relate better with the poser figures, and use them more. I don't want an idealized figure, and they all are, I want real people, probably not that good looking, some that hurt your eyes to look at. I don't have the freak, no use for it. And yeah, that's a morph for whichever mike you have it for that looks different, grotesquely so. I like real people, far more interesting.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

Quote - Right, and that goes for the same that have an axe to grind against other companies as well.

Well, I'm not aware of anyone having an axe to grind against any companies in this thread but if what you say is true then it makes me think that perhaps they are not such great companies afterall. :mellow:

Quote - Blondie, if they do or don't, the only way I'd know is to buy them and try them. Before I go further, I have no bias against people of color at all, I worked side by side with a lot of them for some 40 years, doing exactly the same thing I was, with the same degree of competence. But faces and figures that I have no interest in are not going to get a single dime from me, and that includes africans. SciFi fantasy, less interest, yes, they're different, but to me, also useless. Someone else must have liked them or they wouldn't have been created, but that they exist doesn't mean I have to have any interest in them. I don't know any men or women that have the perfection in either their faces or bodies as the morphs have, I can relate better with the poser figures, and use them more. I don't want an idealized figure, and they all are, I want real people, probably not that good looking, some that hurt your eyes to look at. I don't have the freak, no use for it. And yeah, that's a morph for whichever mike you have it for that looks different, grotesquely so. I like real people, far more interesting.

Wow.

As a person of color, I have no words for this response. What does what you said have anything to do with what Blondie was trying to point out, which was if you bothered to properly morph a character, it won't look like the base?

And to be honest, I've heard this type of response many times growing up and in my 40+ years of living:

"I worked side by side with a lot of them for some 40 years, doing exactly the same thing I was, with the same degree of competence."

This is the same as "I don't hate black people, some of them are my friends." But you've made it worse by saying "I have nothing against africans, I've worked with them and they got the same level of competence." Really?

If they are your friends, you don't make the distinction at all.

Please get back to topic.

Quote - Unfortunately, to be honest, antonia has a PLAIN face at best. Her body shape is awkward,

And that is bad,why? Or do you live in a perfect world where every woman is extremely beautiful with an absolutely perfect body? Every man is Charles Atlas? if so, kindly wall it in to keep it from poluting reality. I won't discourage anyone from trying ds or genesis, if they want to, that's their decision. However, my opinion, genesis may ride a wave for a while, but if it can't get total acceptance quickly, history tells what happens to radical ideas.

And I see you don't like accurate descriptions of the by products of biological processes of decay. However, going back some fifty years to the last time I tasted any of the rancid crap, I only had the dry heaves for an hour after my stomach had nothing left, and I only had a terrible headache for the next three days. Anyone that thinks I should try it again, I'm more than willing to let them do it and put up with the suffering. My old man may have tried to raise a fool, but he didn't.

Oh, yes. That I react so badly to it, Praise be unto the Lord!

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Poser 2008 or Genesis