Coleman opened this issue on Jan 20, 2012 · 85 posts
Coleman posted Fri, 20 January 2012 at 12:46 AM
Attached Link: http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/why-katy-perry-will-never-forgive-russell-brand-2012191
Postworked Katy Perry is fake, but it's also hyper real.What do you think of this kind of super realism in magazine cover art/photo postwork?
Do you aim for this kind of 'realism' in your Poser work?
FightingWolf posted Fri, 20 January 2012 at 3:58 AM
I never aim for photo realism (when I work in Poser). For me imagination is too beautiful and amazing to limit it to the real world by making it photo realism. I do create realism from time to time but I never strive for photo realism.
I've never been a fan of "doctored" images of real people with the purpose of making people believe that the image is real. Magazine that do that are are intentially trying to mislead the viewer. If it was something that was stated as art then no problem, but the fact that their focus is to "enhance" the celebs image by performing plastic surgery via photoshop makes me sick. I never cared much for deception like this.
How many girls and women will try to be like an image that the celeb can't even be?
MacMyers posted Fri, 20 January 2012 at 5:29 AM
It's not right. But it's been happening since photo manipulation has been possible. I think it started with airbrushing. Even before that (and now) "soft" lenses and what not were/are used.
As it turns out... no one really wants to see "real" celebrities.
I just think about how I feel when someone "exposes" something like...say Jennifer Love Hewett's over weight, cellulite fanny on a Mag Cover. Plus... they do the opposite in those situations... touching "down"(I guess I like quotation marks) photos to make them look worse. Celecrities may have chosen to open themselves up to public scrutiny... but they are still people (some may actually BE people) with feelings. Heh... at least Katie Perry does "Poactive Commercials" for people with acne... even showing photos of her zits. ""Pretty" sells better than...uh... well let's say ...uh... Me!
I think part of the mystique of celebity is pretending that they aren't just like everyone else.... except in some... uh... "thing" like "Branjolina" where their entire careers are based on good genetics more than anythiing else (Just my opinion). I still don't like to believe that girls pass gas. Or that ANYBODY has ever picked their nostralinear projection.
Sad fact... but pretty people usually, not always... (though the prettiest or most handsome person in the crack house is probably the most popular) have an easier times of things exactly because they are pretty.
P.S. nothing I say is endoursed by Renderosity. I just talk too much.
“So, roll me further B_t__h!”
icprncss2 posted Fri, 20 January 2012 at 5:43 AM
Actually photo manipulation began back in the days when photographs (espeicially portraits) were painted.
Many photographic studios employed artists to touch up photos with paint to give them color and improve the portrait.
Some art supply and photography supply catalogs still sell photographic paints.
WandW posted Fri, 20 January 2012 at 6:04 AM
Quote - Postworked Katy Perry is fake, but it's also hyper real.
What do you think of this kind of super realism in magazine cover art/photo postwork?
I think she needs more specular on her skin shader, and shadows need to be enabled... :lol:
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MacMyers posted Fri, 20 January 2012 at 6:39 AM
“So, roll me further B_t__h!”
Acadia posted Fri, 20 January 2012 at 11:12 AM
I couldn't do photo realism in 3D, so I don't even try. My poser images look like "poser images" and I'm good with that. I just like making pretty pictures.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Photopium posted Fri, 20 January 2012 at 1:47 PM
10 years ago, I speculated that photo-realism was 10 years away for poser users.
Today, I'm adding on 10 more years.
lmckenzie posted Fri, 20 January 2012 at 5:11 PM
Yesterday I saw a picture of Snooki without makeup - she's actually quite pretty :-) At any rate, I'm sure portrait painters used 'creative license' long before photography. The one's who made their subjects look better probably got more gigs.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
imax24 posted Fri, 20 January 2012 at 5:21 PM
I don't try to create a "photo" with Poser. In fact I do filtering in PhotoShop to reduce the realism. I think of it more like creating a detailed "painting" than taking a "photo." Not being tied to realism, I can be more creative, go wherever my imagination takes me. That's the way I like it.
rokket posted Fri, 20 January 2012 at 6:42 PM Online Now!
I like eggs....
Sorry, couldn't think of anything intelligent to say, as my thoughts have already been echoed, so I winged it...
If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.
Eric Walters posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 5:45 AM
One thing that would add more realism would be a wider dynamic range in the lighting-I know Poser can use HDRI-but the relative contrast of dark and light seems very constrained when I compare it with Lightwave's render engine.
Quote - 10 years ago, I speculated that photo-realism was 10 years away for poser users.
Today, I'm adding on 10 more years.
bagginsbill posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 7:59 AM
How is the relative contrast of dark and light constrained in Poser? I mean the question literally because I don't understand what you're addressing.
Let me be more specific - the intensity dial can be .001% or 1000%, for any given light.
The math nodes can be used with images allowing you to increase or decrease the amplitude of any prop-based lighting object by any factor you want, up to at least 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 ... keep adding zeros until there are 37 of them.
I say "at least" this many zeros because that is the dynamic range of single-precision (32-bit) floating point numbers. I actually believe Poser uses bigger floating point (64-bit or 80-bit) numbers, which would make the dynamic range even more huge. But I don't have time to go prove that at the moment, so I'm going with the "smaller" number 10^38.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
carodan posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 10:52 AM
Magazine photos like these are constructs. Like any other manipulated images or artwork, constructs are a form of abstraction used to represent ideas. Constructs can just as easily be used to embody the ideals of a humanistic philosophy, a political belief or an artistic interpretation of some other aspect of life (paintings), as to promote the world celebrity (and thus sell magazines). Any of these kinds of constructs can be done well or badly.
Always though the question for me is, what are you looking to embody or promote about this world we all share in your construct? What does how you form or manipulate your images reveal about that focus of attention? Who does it benefit? (ok, that's three questions).
Curiously, I find the way these magazines deal with their focus is somewhat appropriate for the subject matter, creating artificial (fake?) icons of a world of that very few of us will ever experience but crave (for whatever reason). The form reveals the true face of celebrity and how that artificial world operates, if you're looking for it.
That's how I see it...kinda.
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bagginsbill posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 11:33 AM
Where are the postwork-is-necessary-in-CG zealots? What happened? Why is postwork in CG renders desirable, but postwork of photos undesirable? Is it no longer art when your raw materials were made by (or are) somebody else? Slippery slope for this forum. Is a postworked render a "fake" render?
Also, no amount of postwork is going to get a photo of me on the cover. Just thought I'd point out the obvious for the heck of it. Or maybe because it provokes thought.
(i.e. do you want to see Katy Perry without makeup, and without postwork? I'm sure you can actually - but do you want to see that on the cover? Do you think it makes sense to try selling something people want, even if it is intellectually troublesome? Are you a communist?)
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
carodan posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 12:02 PM
Celebrity just doesn't interest me, not for it's own sake. That was my point really. It isn't that a photo of Katy Perry may be post-worked or not that makes the world of celebrity fake for me. Maybe fake isn't the right word. Unimportant and an often unhelpful distraction in the grand scheme of things when it proliferates so greatly.
bb, can you expand on your question about communism? I'm not sure I understand.
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Cage posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 12:27 PM
Quote - 10 years ago, I speculated that photo-realism was 10 years away for poser users.
Today, I'm adding on 10 more years.
I think this is one of those "law of limits" sort of things. Poser may approach photo-realism infinitely, but it will never reach it. (And that's even without invoking things like the Uncanny Valley. :unsure:)
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carodan posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 12:42 PM
Re the validity of modified (or unmodified) materials, it's whatever best represents the ideas you're dealing with IMO. If a raw render doesn't do what you want it to but offers a good base to work on, that's fine by me - I'll often tweak in Photoshop.
When I paint it involves a whole range of processes, starting with an un-primed canvas on a wooden stretcher. I'll prime it, then do an underpainting, like a monochromatic drawing or tonal sketch in paint on top of which I'll build progressive layers until I reach a satisfactory end result. There have been times when my underpainting has a power all it's own that satisfies the purpose of illustrating the idea I have in my head and it goes no further.
3d renders are no different for me.
A post-worked photo of a celebrity doesn't personally make me any more or less interested in them.
bb, maybe I'd be interested in seeing a photo (post-worked or otherwise) of you rather than Katy Perry;)
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Eric Walters posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 3:55 PM
Hi BB
If it's not a renderer limitation-but just my improper understanding-maybe you can suggest a solution? When I use HDRI and IDL I don't see a vibrant image when I render. And I'm using some of those 200 mb images from OpenFootageNET. In LW the brightest parts of the image can strongly light a surface-without any Lights in the scene. LW uses 128 bit floating point single precision-but I agree that 32 or 64 should be more than enough dynamic range-so maybe it's something else? I use your envirosphere. I've played with the HSV, and IDL intensity in D3D's render firefly script. How would I go about adding a "contrast" math node to the BB sphere?
Quote - How is the relative contrast of dark and light constrained in Poser? I mean the question literally because I don't understand what you're addressing.
Let me be more specific - the intensity dial can be .001% or 1000%, for any given light.
The math nodes can be used with images allowing you to increase or decrease the amplitude of any prop-based lighting object by any factor you want, up to at least 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 ... keep adding zeros until there are 37 of them.
I say "at least" this many zeros because that is the dynamic range of single-precision (32-bit) floating point numbers. I actually believe Poser uses bigger floating point (64-bit or 80-bit) numbers, which would make the dynamic range even more huge. But I don't have time to go prove that at the moment, so I'm going with the "smaller" number 10^38.
bagginsbill posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 4:18 PM
Eric,
I'm at a disadvantage since I don't have experience with LW, so I'm totally speculating with zero data what the differences are.
One thing I'm well aware of and concerned with is that Poser IDL is Indirect DIFFUSE Light - this equation says zippo about specular effects, and we have to construct those ourselves. But as I've been posting recently, the new-improved Reflect node can do all sorts of specular highlights (blurred reflections) much better than before. It is now possible to get great highlights from an HDR EnvSphere, and this was not the case in the past.
Maybe we start a new thread? Can you show me something simple, like a sphere, rendered in LW and Poser and then I can address the question?
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
bagginsbill posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 4:21 PM
The wheels on this car in my gallery image:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/full.php?image_id=2289231
were done with blurred reflections. There are no lights in the scene.
And this render has no artistic merit whatsoever, it is simply an exercise in realism. I enjoyed it immensely, and it got into the staff picks. Apparently fake-realism is not so unpopular with some people.
Does anybody remember Aesop's fable about sour grapes? grin
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
bagginsbill posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 4:26 PM
Quote - bb, can you expand on your question about communism? I'm not sure I understand.
It was just a little dig at some of the folks here who demonstrate some intolerance of the views and likes of others. As if, like the communist regimes of the world, a few elite party leaders get to decide how the rest will do and experience pretty much everything.
Just so you know, I think Katy Perry is hot, and I like to see her - faked or not.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Eric Walters posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 4:38 PM
Thanks BB
I wll make some renders and post. Going out into the "REAL" world for a bit first.
Quote - Eric,
I'm at a disadvantage since I don't have experience with LW, so I'm totally speculating with zero data what the differences are.
One thing I'm well aware of and concerned with is that Poser IDL is Indirect DIFFUSE Light - this equation says zippo about specular effects, and we have to construct those ourselves. But as I've been posting recently, the new-improved Reflect node can do all sorts of specular highlights (blurred reflections) much better than before. It is now possible to get great highlights from an HDR EnvSphere, and this was not the case in the past.
Maybe we start a new thread? Can you show me something simple, like a sphere, rendered in LW and Poser and then I can address the question?
carodan posted Sat, 21 January 2012 at 5:46 PM
Quote - > Quote - bb, can you expand on your question about communism? I'm not sure I understand.
It was just a little dig at some of the folks here who demonstrate some intolerance of the views and likes of others. As if, like the communist regimes of the world, a few elite party leaders get to decide how the rest will do and experience pretty much everything.
Just so you know, I think Katy Perry is hot, and I like to see her - faked or not.
Heh, feels like there's a lot of that going around lately, in our own back yard.
There are so many hot women in the world. I don't look at a lot of the mainstream media these days though. It's amazing how many exceptional people arn't bought to our attention through those channels. Been watching a lot of web TV instead.
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Banaman posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 6:56 AM
Hallo Artisans!
Artistic Relativism is caused by Modifications in the Sensory Mind.
Banaman posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 8:43 AM
SamTherapy posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 11:48 AM
Quote - Render of Sensory Mind in Modified state.
Dude, put the crack pipe down. ;)
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Banaman posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 1:24 PM
If I posted an MRI Scan of a Brain Modified by a stroke, would that be Realistic enough for you?
SamTherapy posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 4:54 PM
Relevance to thread? Realism as in Poser representation of scenes in everyday life?
Nul point on both, mate.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Eric Walters posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 9:01 PM
I took his comment as humor. If you were serious with the image-I'm afraid no one else gets it- at least without explanation.
Quote - If I posted an MRI Scan of a Brain Modified by a stroke, would that be Realistic enough for you?
mrmagic333 posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 10:21 PM
i'm for realism if it's a made up character
but for a celebrity, i want the real thing
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Miss Nancy posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 11:33 PM
in re: bill's request, we'll see if anybody can do a katie perry render. personally I was horrified when she got involved with russell brand. it was so heart-rending to see it happen.
CaptainMARC posted Thu, 26 January 2012 at 7:33 AM
Quote - personally I was horrified when she got involved with russell brand. it was so heart-rending to see it happen.
I agree. He's an intelligent and eloquent bloke, what would he possibly see in her? (Well, apart from the obvious, haha, but that's hardly enough to base a long term relationship on.)
I had high hopes when she came up with the West Ham United corset, but apparently that was as good as it got...
SamTherapy posted Thu, 26 January 2012 at 12:08 PM
Quote - in re: bill's request, we'll see if anybody can do a katie perry render. personally I was horrified when she got involved with russell brand. it was so heart-rending to see it happen.
I can never tell when you're being ironic.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Banaman posted Thu, 26 January 2012 at 12:48 PM
Attached Link: http://universeabovetheearth.com/mandala_art.html
The Art of Mandala dates back to ancient times. Flags, emblems, logos, icons, symbols, personages, geometrical shapes, words, letters are variations of this artistic technique.A Yantra is a geometrical diagram used for Meditation.
By using various computer applications one may construct these Material Objects according to ancient custom and/or modern methods such as Kaleidoscopes in a single or multiframe. Motion can be expressed on the XYZ Planes. Fractal Art is a variation of this Art Form.
If you would like to view this Image expressed as Mandala Music Video click the Link.
SamTherapy posted Fri, 27 January 2012 at 7:04 AM
No thanks. I'd rather stick needles in my eyes. :)
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Eric Walters posted Fri, 27 January 2012 at 3:18 PM
Thanks for explaining it. Still not sure what it has to do with realism in renders-except in a very abstract existential way. If you follow the connection to fractal art-and tie it in with the prevalence of fractal forms in nature- snowflakes, etc- then I can see it. Of course I may still be missing your point. Computers can make fractals very easily-but that does not translate to a realistically lighted, modeled and textured scene.
Quote - The Art of Mandala dates back to ancient times. Flags, emblems, logos, icons, symbols, personages, geometrical shapes, words, letters are variations of this artistic technique.
A Yantra is a geometrical diagram used for Meditation.
By using various computer applications one may construct these Material Objects according to ancient custom and/or modern methods such as Kaleidoscopes in a single or multiframe. Motion can be expressed on the XYZ Planes. Fractal Art is a variation of this Art Form.
If you would like to view this Image expressed as Mandala Music Video click the Link.
scanmead posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 8:08 AM
From an un-scientific point of view: Tabloids and magazines do cover "art". The pick a story, decide on a point of view, find a photo that will quickly convey the point of view, and "enhance" whatever they're trying to say. Angelina is a princess? Find red carpet photo, apply filters, touch up any imperfections. Angelina is a demon? Get that 'alien neck' shot, and increase the contrast. They have less than 10 seconds to grab your attention and convey a basic message.
You have to applaud Britain for taking issue with models who are digitally made to look like human skeletons or airbrushed to impossible perfection, though.
And then there is perception. I'll be brave and pick car renders. We expect deep, highly reflective paint on those, and anything less doesn't look "real". I spent 6 hours in a car dealership yesterday, and even with the showroom lighting, none of those cars looked like the ads on TV. So which is real? The normal daylight/can lights at the dealers, or the huge, blinding lights in a studio?
lmckenzie posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 9:33 AM
"So which is real?"
I'd say real is what it'll look like sitting in your driveway covered in bird poop.
The interesting thing is that people buy into the deception. They know that the car doesn't really look that shiny and that food never comes out looking like the packages. You'd think that products depicted more accurately would sell better but apparently not. The ads seem to be tapping into some 'primitive' appeal, shiny = better, that bypasses rational thinking. I often see ads for software that depict a box even though no boxed copy exists. Perhaps a box suggests a more substantial product.
Why show cars parked on top of mountain peaks (where most people would be terrified) instead of on a street? What effect does the age/race/gender of those 'photos of strangers' they put in wallets have on sales? Why are bikini clad hotties used to sell beer but whiskey ads look like they were photographed in a board room? The answers are out there.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
scanmead posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 9:43 AM
I have to admit I get sucked into those ads, too. Show a digital car racing around ooOOoo pretty shiny lights on a glass track, and I'm stoked! But you're right about the bird poop, now add dust and water spots from that light rain. ;)
Interestingly enough, sitting in traffic generated by the Barrett-Jackson Auto Show and Auction, people were ignoring the poor Ferrari that couldn't get out of 1st gear, and were staring at a Silverado done in matte black with red detailing. Well, that, and something that looked like a chromed Art Deco 1930's toaster with a speed boat on top of it. Not a clue what that thing was.
SamTherapy posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 11:25 AM
You wouldn't get bikini babes advertising beer over here. In fact, the advertising of alcohol is very strictly regulated in the UK. Strange, since we're pretty much relaxed about the actual sale and distribution of the product, when compared to the USA.
Anyhow, the guidelines are something like, all people in the ad must appear to be at least 30 years old, behaving in a responsible manner and must not be seen to consume excessively.
Ads for whisky usually show rugged countryside, wild animals native to Scotland or Ireland, or a warm cosy room with a glowing fire and lots of dark, polished wood.
You're right about shiny = better, though. I bet it's because in nature, back in our hunter/gatherer days, the only shiny things we'd be likely to see were fresh berries and running water. Both very good things and essential to our survival. Despite thousands of years of "progress", we're still those old hunter/gatherers at heart (or brain, to be exact).
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
scanmead posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 12:35 PM
I am going to correct myself on car paint, though. I took a photo of the new ride to send my sister, and was floored to see the results. Funny how things you don't notice show up in a photo. (The neighbor's truck is solid primer, and has been for 10 years.) Taken just after sunrise, there are those "studio" reflections. Granted, it was just detailed by the dealer, but still, it's pretty reflective.
SamTherapy posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 5:00 PM
Cleanliness is a relatively new thing. Even doctors didn't wash their hands after using the toilet and so people died from secondary infections. It took a long time - several years - before it finally sunk in that washing and cleanliness in general helps prevent the spread of disease.
Back in the middle ages and for a long time after, people beleived diseases were caused by bad smells, hence the nosegays that were popular in the days of open sewers.
French royalty - and others, no doubt - had vermin living in their elaborate wigs; most people had fleas, worms and rotten teeth. Shall I go on, or are you losing your lunch yet? ;)
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
scanmead posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 6:07 PM
LOL! I have a nephew who wishes he lived in the Middle Ages. I've mentioned things like, not only no plumbing, but no toilet paper. Yeah, go wash yourself, your clothes, and your food in that water, but keep in mind your neighbors upstream already used it. And those crunchy bits in the food? Care to guess what those might be? Fleas, ticks, flies, worms, maggots, bedbugs (now making a comeback) all love your straw mattress, and your woolen clothes, and your hair! And, darn it, bathing will make you sick in the winter!
It's easy to romaticize things in the past, but the truth is, we'd all last about 10 minutes. (What?! No disinfectant wipes for the grocery cart handles?!)
SamTherapy posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 6:49 PM
OTOH, you may not notice the crunchy bits in your food if you're off your face with ergot poisoning. :)
Yeah, I'd just love to live in an era where a toothache or a grazed elbow could kill you.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
moriador posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 7:21 PM
Quote - OTOH, you may not notice the crunchy bits in your food if you're off your face with ergot poisoning. :)
Yeah, I'd just love to live in an era where a toothache or a grazed elbow could kill you.
If doctors keep prescribing antibiotics to everyone who demands them (such as those with viral infections) and people continue to ignore orders to finish their prescriptions, drug resistance will take us right back there in only a few years.
PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.
scanmead posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 7:27 PM
Not to mention leprosy was still around. Nothing like having bits of you falling off. Sort of makes meltdowns over blemishes look silly. And the black death. Oozing pustules and cart loads of bodies can put you off your feed. Makes you feel pretty fortunate to have missed all that. Wonder what people will point out 1000 years from now about us? Other than shiny cars, that is.
SamTherapy posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 8:31 PM
To the tune of "Yesterday" by The Beatles...
Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be
Bits and pieces falling off of me
I caught a dose of leprosy.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
lmckenzie posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 9:34 PM
I remember when 'caught a dose' referred to a very specific type of disease and it wasn't leprosy :-)
Would you rather be destitute in 2012, unable to afford all those miracle medicines, or rich in 1812?
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
SamTherapy posted Sat, 28 January 2012 at 10:34 PM
Destitute in 2012 is a pretty good bet in the UK, since we get medical treatment free. :D
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Eric Walters posted Sun, 29 January 2012 at 5:04 AM
Haha! Or in England- har har! How horrible is Rotherham?
Quote - To the tune of "Yesterday" by The Beatles...
Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be
Bits and pieces falling off of me
I caught a dose of leprosy.
SamTherapy posted Sun, 29 January 2012 at 8:05 AM
Rotherham is really, really bad. Run down, small, old fashioned dirty, smelly and covered with grime. And that's just the people. I'm from the nearby big city, Sheffield, which is a fairly affluent and cosmopolitan place. Rotherham is poor, backward and insular. People are small minded and content to stay as they are, hate change, hate outsiders and are jealous of anyone with more than they have, yet won't do anything to better themselves.
I don't live in Rotherham proper now; we recently moved out to a nearby township called Wath Upon Dearne, which is really nice. Although it belongs in an administrative sense to Rotherham it's a place in its own right with a local identity and a completely different atmosphere from Rotherham.
The place we have now is first rate; a newly built 3 bedroom house with loads of room for the kids. After spending 2 and a half years in a one bedroom apartment, this feels like a mansion.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
scanmead posted Sun, 29 January 2012 at 1:24 PM
Quote - To the tune of "Yesterday" by The Beatles...
Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be
Bits and pieces falling off of me
I caught a dose of leprosy.
You are, indeed, a song writer with undeniable pith. :D
England is such a wonderful place. Where else could you find a name like Wath Upon Dearne, that inspires visions of timelessness and decorum? So, Rotherham is where you keep your rednecks? We sort of spread them out evenly, with some larger pockets, on this side of the pond.
As far as rich in the past, or poor now, I'll stick with now, too. I've often said I'd like to go back to the 1970's, until I really think about it. No LCD TV? No PC? Nice looking, but clunky cars? No On Star? No CCTV to watch out for us? No debit cards? No Advil? And... GASP! no internet??!!
SamTherapy posted Sun, 29 January 2012 at 2:15 PM
I can't take credit for the song. A Brit comedian did it, years ago. My own songs are somewhat more serious. Hard to believe, seeing as how I'm rarely serious here but there you go. :)
As for Rednecks, the North of England is our analogue of the South USA. Most of the small Northern towns have our Redneck equivalents. Wath Upon Dearne is a really nice place, compared to many. It's not particularly affluent but people here seem better behaved in general than their Rotherham counterparts.
Like all places, there are some rough areas but then, our rough areas are seldom like the USA bad places. Unless you count Pitsmoor and Burngreave in Sheffield. Fortunately, Sheffield is big enough to isolate them so it's possible to live your whole life in the city and never go to Pitsmoor or Burngreave. And believe me, you wouldn't want to. I lived there as a kid; it was rough then but it's a truly frightening part of town now. I'd think twice about going there and nothing much scares me.
CCTV is a contentious issue over here. We're the most CCTV-ed (if that's a word) country in the West and many people believe it's a cheap and nasty way of hiring less police. In any event, most of us dislike them. They don't really solve anything, they just move the problems elsewhere.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
SamTherapy posted Sun, 29 January 2012 at 2:19 PM
Addendum: I've always been happiest in the here and now. Certain times in my life are nice to remember but I've never really been touched by nostalgia. If anything, I look forward to seeing what's around the corner. My life went through a lot of changes in the past 15 years and, eventually, brought me more happiness than I ever thought possible. Claire and my children are my constant joy and delight.
So, to bring it back to topic, there's real, genuine reality. No Katy Perry but you can't have everything. :)
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Eric Walters posted Sun, 29 January 2012 at 3:38 PM
As has been said-that describes parts of the US! The accent is different-but the "mindset" is the same. Over here it might be "yew ain't frum around here-is yew?"
Glad you moved then! I love the name "Wath Upon Dearne" Dearne being a river?
BTW: after reading about some of the situations you've been in over the years-I'm glad you've retained your sense of humor (or humour).
Quote - Rotherham is really, really bad. Run down, small, old fashioned dirty, smelly and covered with grime. And that's just the people. I'm from the nearby big city, Sheffield, which is a fairly affluent and cosmopolitan place. Rotherham is poor, backward and insular. People are small minded and content to stay as they are, hate change, hate outsiders and are jealous of anyone with more than they have, yet won't do anything to better themselves.
I don't live in Rotherham proper now; we recently moved out to a nearby township called Wath Upon Dearne, which is really nice. Although it belongs in an administrative sense to Rotherham it's a place in its own right with a local identity and a completely different atmosphere from Rotherham.
The place we have now is first rate; a newly built 3 bedroom house with loads of room for the kids. After spending 2 and a half years in a one bedroom apartment, this feels like a mansion.
SamTherapy posted Sun, 29 January 2012 at 3:58 PM
Attached Link: Wikipedia entry for Wath
Yup, it's a river.Sense of humour? It's the only thing kept me going at times.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Khai-J-Bach posted Sun, 29 January 2012 at 4:06 PM
Quote - Yup, it's a river.
Sense of humour? It's the only thing kept me going at times.
and All-Bran.
SamTherapy posted Sun, 29 January 2012 at 4:44 PM
scanmead posted Sun, 29 January 2012 at 5:15 PM
Quote - Addendum: I've always been happiest in the here and now. Certain times in my life are nice to remember but I've never really been touched by nostalgia. If anything, I look forward to seeing what's around the corner. My life went through a lot of changes in the past 15 years and, eventually, brought me more happiness than I ever thought possible. Claire and my children are my constant joy and delight.
So, to bring it back to topic, there's real, genuine reality. No Katy Perry but you can't have everything. :)
That is the sweetest thing I've read in a very long time. It makes you feel good to know that someone perservered, and is now enjoying rewards that truly matter. And I'll bet you're just the best Dad ever!
SamTherapy posted Sun, 29 January 2012 at 5:22 PM
I try my best.
I have a two year old son who thinks eating diaper rash cream is great and a baby daughter who enjoys emulating a Face Hugger, if that's any indication as to my prowess as a parent.
Then again they both have good taste in movies (Cars, Rango, How To Tame Your Dragon, Toy Story 1 2 and 3, Nemo). Sam knows a fair bit about Doctor Who and he can recognize a Dalek from a mile off. No big surprise in this house, though. :)
I'm at the age where most people are grandparents but I'm glad; I think the extra years gave me more patience and perspective.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
scanmead posted Mon, 30 January 2012 at 3:34 PM
Recognizing Daleks and emulating face huggers could both come in handy. ;) The diaper rash cream eating... maybe not so much. At least Sam has a parent who didn't freak out when he did it, though. (You didn't freak out, right?)
SamTherapy posted Mon, 30 January 2012 at 4:43 PM
Niles posted Mon, 30 January 2012 at 11:08 PM
Quote - I can't take credit for the song. A Brit comedian did it, years ago. My own songs are somewhat more serious. Hard to believe, seeing as how I'm rarely serious here but there you go. :)
As for Rednecks, the North of England is our analogue of the South USA. Most of the small Northern towns have our Redneck equivalents. Wath Upon Dearne is a really nice place, compared to many. It's not particularly affluent but people here seem better behaved in general than their Rotherham counterparts.
Like all places, there are some rough areas but then, our rough areas are seldom like the USA bad places. Unless you count Pitsmoor and Burngreave in Sheffield. Fortunately, Sheffield is big enough to isolate them so it's possible to live your whole life in the city and never go to Pitsmoor or Burngreave. And believe me, you wouldn't want to. I lived there as a kid; it was rough then but it's a truly frightening part of town now. I'd think twice about going there and nothing much scares me.
CCTV is a contentious issue over here. We're the most CCTV-ed (if that's a word) country in the West and many people believe it's a cheap and nasty way of hiring less police. In any event, most of us dislike them. They don't really solve anything, they just move the problems elsewhere.
Being in the "south USA" I find that statement insulting. Have you ever been to the USA?
ShawnDriscoll posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 6:10 AM
Quote - Postworked Katy Perry is fake, but it's also hyper real. What do you think of this kind of super realism in magazine cover art/photo postwork?
Do you aim for this kind of 'realism' in your Poser work?
It's not hyper-real, unfortunately. It's just a flash photo of someone, wearing a lot of foundation, pasted on a white background.
SamTherapy posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 8:54 AM
Quote - > Quote - I can't take credit for the song. A Brit comedian did it, years ago. My own songs are somewhat more serious. Hard to believe, seeing as how I'm rarely serious here but there you go. :)
As for Rednecks, the North of England is our analogue of the South USA. Most of the small Northern towns have our Redneck equivalents. Wath Upon Dearne is a really nice place, compared to many. It's not particularly affluent but people here seem better behaved in general than their Rotherham counterparts.
Like all places, there are some rough areas but then, our rough areas are seldom like the USA bad places. Unless you count Pitsmoor and Burngreave in Sheffield. Fortunately, Sheffield is big enough to isolate them so it's possible to live your whole life in the city and never go to Pitsmoor or Burngreave. And believe me, you wouldn't want to. I lived there as a kid; it was rough then but it's a truly frightening part of town now. I'd think twice about going there and nothing much scares me.
CCTV is a contentious issue over here. We're the most CCTV-ed (if that's a word) country in the West and many people believe it's a cheap and nasty way of hiring less police. In any event, most of us dislike them. They don't really solve anything, they just move the problems elsewhere.
Being in the "south USA" I find that statement insulting. Have you ever been to the USA?
Yes. And my observation comes not from myself but from many of my friends there, also mainly living in the South. Feel free to continue finding it insulting because I ain't apologizing or withdrawing the remark.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Niles posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 2:33 PM
Well Good for you.
SamTherapy posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 2:59 PM
What the hell is your problem?
I can't for the life of me find anything insulting in this remark:
"As for Rednecks, the North of England is our analogue of the South USA. Most of the small Northern towns have our Redneck equivalents. Wath Upon Dearne is a really nice place, compared to many. It's not particularly affluent but people here seem better behaved in general than their Rotherham counterparts."
Please show me exactly where I insulted you, or called you a redneck. Show me exactly where I insulted anyone anywhere by comparing the North of England with the South of the USA. For that matter, please explain to me what exactly I meant by the remark, since you seem to have read something I wasn't aware I'd written.
My only conclusion is you're looking for an excuse to pick a fight with someone. Either that or you're too thin skinned to be on an internet forum, which given the date you joined here comes as a great surprise.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
scanmead posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 5:06 PM
Oy vey! I will fess up to the fact that I have/still do think everyone in England dresses either like Braveheart or Mary Poppins, all French have such discerning taste in food none of them are fat, all Italians are very friendly and drive fast cars, all Scandanavians are stoic, and Russians have fun doing everything.
Of course all that goes right out the window when you actually go to those places, darn it.
If there is anyone to blame for the American Southeastern states' having a skewed reputation, it's from American films and TV shows. The Beverly Hillbillies, The Dukes of Hazard, Swamp People, and a growing list of shows that I refuse to watch. You can't blame people for buying into what Hollywood has been churning out for as long as film has existed. And the music industry doesn't help offset that, either.
SamTherapy posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 5:14 PM
As I said, scan, these observations are mainly from Stateside friends. Admittedly, some live in the Northern States but many don't. Besides which, I don't remember mentioning, or comparing anyone to, The Beverley Hillbillies, Dukes of Hazzard or Swamp People.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
moriador posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 5:26 PM
Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I can't take credit for the song. A Brit comedian did it, years ago. My own songs are somewhat more serious. Hard to believe, seeing as how I'm rarely serious here but there you go. :)
As for Rednecks, the North of England is our analogue of the South USA. Most of the small Northern towns have our Redneck equivalents. Wath Upon Dearne is a really nice place, compared to many. It's not particularly affluent but people here seem better behaved in general than their Rotherham counterparts.
Like all places, there are some rough areas but then, our rough areas are seldom like the USA bad places. Unless you count Pitsmoor and Burngreave in Sheffield. Fortunately, Sheffield is big enough to isolate them so it's possible to live your whole life in the city and never go to Pitsmoor or Burngreave. And believe me, you wouldn't want to. I lived there as a kid; it was rough then but it's a truly frightening part of town now. I'd think twice about going there and nothing much scares me.
CCTV is a contentious issue over here. We're the most CCTV-ed (if that's a word) country in the West and many people believe it's a cheap and nasty way of hiring less police. In any event, most of us dislike them. They don't really solve anything, they just move the problems elsewhere.
Being in the "south USA" I find that statement insulting. Have you ever been to the USA?
Yes. And my observation comes not from myself but from many of my friends there, also mainly living in the South. Feel free to continue finding it insulting because I ain't apologizing or withdrawing the remark.
I don't see anything insulting in your post either, Sam*.*
For the record, I lived in both the North of England and the South of the USA for several years. I can't contradict any of your observations, though mostly because it's been a very long time since I left the UK. My experience isn't very current.
I do have to listen to my spouse disparage my Northern kinsmen on a daily basis ("Of course you haven't written the rent cheque, love. I forgot that you Northerners haven't developed a written version of the grunts you use to communicate with one another yet.") Of course, he's from some awful west London burrough (the name of which I can never recall).
PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.
lmckenzie posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 5:35 PM
Well, at least we're back to the Poser Forum version of reality.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
SamTherapy posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 5:38 PM
Thanks, both of you, and scanmead. I was beginning to despair. :) I thought everyone had a sense of humour bypass today.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
scanmead posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 6:05 PM
You know, this brings up a point between American and British senses of humor. Brits still have one. :P Seriously, sometimes I think we Americans are so afraid of not being politically correct, we can't laugh anymore.
And that's why my favorite comedy was Keeping Up Appearances, followed closesly by Absolutely Fabulous. They were full of stereotypes, and made me laugh so hard I literally cried. I still quote both shows regularly.
With that: I want to be a nun!
SamTherapy posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 6:13 PM
Oh, I dunno. Some of the best all time comedy shows came from the US. I think both countries have produced some real gems. We have a lot of dross here, too. For every Fawlty Towers, there's a dozen predictable middle class sitcoms. Unfortunately, the best over here now IMO are ones that really wouldn't go over well in the US because they are so English. If they were changed for a US audience, they'd lose most of what made 'em funny in the first place.
That said, I rarely (read: never) have time to watch tv now. Whatever happens to be on when I get a few moments is what I watch. It's usually some VOD for the kids. They're going through a Rango/Tame Your Dragon/Ice Age phase lately.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
ShawnDriscoll posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 6:45 PM
I can't stand Are You Being Served. But there is an audience demographic for it here in San Diego. Was the show really that popular back in the day on BBC?
SamTherapy posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 6:50 PM
Quote - I can't stand Are You Being Served. But there is an audience demographic for it here in San Diego. Was the show really that popular back in the day on BBC?
There you have it; a perfect example of the dross I mentioned. Yep, it was popular and ran for years and years. There was also Allo Allo, another completely horrible, unfunny war-time "comedy" set in France.
Oh yeah, we have turned out some real trash. And still do.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
moriador posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 8:46 PM
"Yes, Minister", however, was a real gem.
PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.
ShawnDriscoll posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 9:08 PM
I do get a kick out of Keeping Up Appearances. Even though it is the same story every episode. Sheridan is my favorite character. :)
Cyberdene posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 9:09 PM
ShawnDriscoll posted Tue, 31 January 2012 at 9:12 PM
SamTherapy posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 12:55 PM
Both good examples posted above. I really like the lighting on your pic, Shawn.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
scanmead posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 9:03 AM
Photorealism, when you hit it, is very impressive. Depending on the project, it can be mandatory. Personally, I've seen too many arch-viz renders, and witnessed too many snit fits over minute details to have much patience with the whole process. I sort of miss the old Bryce days when it was more about what the image said than about the technical side. What catches my eye now is when both come together, and that doesn't happen often.
lmckenzie posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 6:53 PM
"Is that Mr. Ackbar? Mrs. Slocombe here, your next-door neighbor. I wonder, would you do me a favour? Would you go to my front door, bend down, and look through the letter-box? And if you can see my pussy, would you drop a sardine on the mat?"
I loved AYBS.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
flibbits posted Fri, 03 February 2012 at 8:29 PM
Mr. Ackbar's english isn't very good, but he means well. If Mrs. Slocombe read this thread then by the time she finished her pussy would be in an uproar.
"I do get a kick out of Keeping Up Appearances. Even though it is the same story every episode. "
Could someone create a 3D model home that had a mercedes in the garage, a sauna and room for a pony?