EricJoseph opened this issue on Jan 23, 2012 · 45 posts
EricJoseph posted Mon, 23 January 2012 at 4:16 PM
I've been working on a project today that I first started playing around with a couple of weeks. Previously I have been able to render still images with no problem but today for no particular reason (as far as my brain can tell) after the indirect lighting calculation I'm left with little white dots all over my background prop and what has the appearance of a solid wall of mist in the midground to the background on my scene. I've tried reseting render settings to default and the classic switching my computer off and on again but the problem still persists. Any help and advice would be much appriciated.
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bagginsbill posted Mon, 23 January 2012 at 5:37 PM
Your words trigger no memory of related phenomena. Need a picture.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
EricJoseph posted Mon, 23 January 2012 at 6:06 PM
Hope this works. Never uploaded an image on hear before.
Thanks
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EricJoseph posted Mon, 23 January 2012 at 6:15 PM
Look like it hasn't worked. I tried to upload it from my harddrive as an attached file. I don't have a web site or anything. Not sure how to get images on here?
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RobynsVeil posted Mon, 23 January 2012 at 6:51 PM
ETA: there's a size limit, btw...
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hborre posted Mon, 23 January 2012 at 6:55 PM Online Now!
Best to go into your 2D program and save image for web option.
carodan posted Mon, 23 January 2012 at 7:10 PM
Max 200kb for forum attachments
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Miss Nancy posted Mon, 23 January 2012 at 7:33 PM
maybe OP turned on depth cue or atmosphere.
EricJoseph posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 3:06 AM
Depth cue was part of the problem although no idea how it got turned on. The misty effect has now gone but I'm still getting the little white specs. They appear exactly where the little red specs appear when poser calculates indirect lighting.
Thanks
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carodan posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 4:16 AM
Be interested to see your render & scene info. Sounds like the same issue I've noticed in certain lighting conditions (backlit infinite light with RT shadows) to which I haven't yet found a resolution based on info others have posted in other threads.
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ShawnDriscoll posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 5:04 AM
Turn off SSS if it's not needed. It's weird if you can't attach a simple JPG file at the bottom of your replies.
EricJoseph posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 7:31 AM
What does SSS stand for?
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carodan posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 7:39 AM
SSS = Sub Surface Scattering - it's a shader option via some of the material room nodes that simulates the effect of how light interacts with translucent materials like skin, marble or milk.
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carodan posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 7:53 AM
The interesting thing here is that I've disabled SSS and removed all specular, displacement and bump (it's just diffuse shading), so they don't seem to be contributing to the tiny white dots in the shadow areas. Only IDL is enabled, and the white dots go away when it's disabled. I've also tried various values for RT shadow bias, blur and samples but none seem to cure the problem. Rotating the light a little can help, but isn't an outright solution.
I have no idea what is causing it, other than it seems related to IDL or raytracing.
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
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carodan posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 8:31 AM
Correction - in the above example the dots still remain when IDL is disabled. Weird.
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EricJoseph posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 9:55 AM
Yes that is the same as what I'm getting and the problem still remained when I turned off ID
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carodan posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 10:22 AM
Just tried using V4 and got same results. Also tried smoothing on and off with no discernable change in results. GC off results in a much darker image of course, but cranking levels up in Photoshop does still reveal some artifacts.
Got this horrible feeling there's something obvious I'm missing here but maybe not.
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
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bagginsbill posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 10:43 AM
Or it's a new bug.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
carodan posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 10:47 AM
I posted a report on mantis some months back (Sr1 didn't fix) - need to update with a few details.
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carodan posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 11:39 AM
One more test with an intriguing result - when I rotated my light (still behind figure but moved more than just a few degrees) the white dots render in exactly the same places. Moving the camera position however, even by just a little, changes the pattern of artifacts.
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www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
millighost posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 1:47 PM
Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/forum/showthread.php?65922-White-artifacts-what-s-wrong-with-this-picture&
Looks like displacement holes to me (if you use displacement); i know you are not convinced, but you can check by e.g. inserting a square with an ambient red color into the head, just like in the linked post :-)
carodan posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 1:51 PM
Displacement was disabled and nothing plugged into that channel for above render. This is something else I think.
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millighost posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 1:59 PM
Ok, not displacement's fault then.
Another poke: can you match the render with a wireframe render, so one gets an idea if the dots are at polygon boundaries? If they are, it is likely a bug in the geometry part of the renderer (which involves normals, smoothing etc), if they are not, it could be in the materials (might be a specific buggy node).
millighost posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 2:42 PM
Quote - Displacement was disabled and nothing plugged into that channel for above render. This is something else I think.
Just a thought: might also be the smooth polygon option in the render settings (which works like displacement) and also rips the mesh apart, i just checked.
carodan posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 5:11 PM
Quote - Just tried using V4 and got same results. Also tried smoothing on and off with no discernable change in results. GC off results in a much darker image of course, but cranking levels up in Photoshop does still reveal some artifacts.
Got this horrible feeling there's something obvious I'm missing here but maybe not.
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
carodan posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 5:12 PM
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
ShawnDriscoll posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 6:44 PM
carodan posted Tue, 24 January 2012 at 7:31 PM
SR2 fixes the issue then? I missed the last few messages from SM.
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
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millighost posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 5:35 AM
Quote - Doesn't seem to be a direct correlation between all artifacts and mesh, at least on front facing vertices.
Interesting. In your last image the dots turned blue-ish. What is blue in your scene, is there a blue light or blue color in the nodes?
carodan posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 6:23 AM
I overlayed a wireframe preview render onto the ordinary render via a blending mode in photoshop to clearly illustrate the relationship between the two - colour must have crept in as a result. It's not relevant.
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EricJoseph posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 6:25 AM
Very brief mention of SR2 from Shawn Driscoll. Is there an SR2? Where would I go to download it?
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carodan posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 6:26 AM
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
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carodan posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 6:28 AM
I don't think SR2 has been released yet. I assume he was referring to the preview open to beta testers. I haven't had a chance to take a look yet.
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
carodan posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 6:42 AM
PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.
www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
hborre posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 10:50 AM Online Now!
I might be throwing a wild turkey into the mix Dan, you haven't tried a different light set for the scene? It might be difficult to reproduce under those circumstances, but it might be interesting if this behavior is repeatable. The only other cause could a combination of light settings.
millighost posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 12:05 PM
Hm, did some experiments and it looks like these wrong dots are very easy to reproduce. Practically every render has them. They are actually holes (in my case at least), as i can see them with no lights, pure black material on the surface, but a visible surface behind (like in the before mentioned post), in carodan's case probably because of the strong backlight. They even appear in the center of polygons. Make the shading rate lower or the number of pixel samples higher to get more of them, but less pronounced and vice versa. I tried with Poser 8, so your results may be different, but it looks like this is not a new feature, after all.
MistyLaraCarrara posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 1:11 PM
i remember seeing those voids when i upped the post filter size. back in Poser 6.
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carodan posted Wed, 25 January 2012 at 1:52 PM
This cropped up because I was wanting to do very dark backlit renders for a project I'm working on. The artifacts were showing up with just about every render & I was convinced I was doing something stupid.
I've been messing with this on and off for a month now. As usual I've gone about it in an arse-about-face way, gradually switching stuff off (subtractive rather than additive approach) or trying different values in render settings, on lights & with materials. That's why I only just realised the artifacts are present even with the most basic of setups without even any shadows etc.
I'm just an end user. Hopefully what I've posted here & sent to SM will help someone who actually knows what the problem might be to diagnose & fix. If not I guess I'll have to get used to the idea of spotting them out in photoshop, like we had to in the old days of darkroom photography.
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EricJoseph posted Thu, 26 January 2012 at 1:48 PM
This thread seems to have gone quiet and I've got a bad feeling that the problem is a glitch in poser that cannot be resolved unless smith micro release an update to fix it which is a real shame as the leavel of artifacts on the prop I'm using makes it unuseable for my project. I tried switching off sss and it didn't make any diference so I'm at a bit of a loss now.
Poser Pro 2012
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EricJoseph posted Thu, 26 January 2012 at 1:58 PM
Quote - This thread seems to have gone quiet and I've got a bad feeling that the problem is a glitch in poser that cannot be resolved unless smith micro release an update to fix it which is a real shame as the leavel of artifacts on the prop I'm using makes it unuseable for my project. I tried switching off sss and it didn't make any diference so I'm at a bit of a loss now.
Sorry I stupidly posted my last coment without realising there's a second page to this thread. Just sounds like I'm stating the obvious now!
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carodan posted Thu, 26 January 2012 at 2:49 PM
Don't worry, you wouldn't be the first person to post without reading the thread (seems quite common in fact). You certainly won't be the last.
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carodan posted Thu, 26 January 2012 at 2:59 PM
As I said earlier in the thread, I reported the issue to SM some time ago and I know it had been assigned to a technician. I also updated it a day or so ago but haven't heard anything else.
I'm only experiencing this with darker backlit renders so it's not such a big deal. Be good to get it sorted though.
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www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com
outa posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 1:30 AM
Well I get light specs in shadow that I have to paint out in Photoshop. No IDL, lots of point lights.
Its a night scene with a moon above a log cabin with hanging lights. Terradome is in use for the moon and sky. The moon backlights the cabin. Hence the points lights. Where no light gets to. There is spots in the shadow.
Now I am afraid that this problem that you are all writing about wasn't fixed in SR3.1
bobbesch posted Sat, 03 November 2012 at 2:18 AM
Since you got photoshop, there's a quick way to remove the spots: Filter -> Noise-> Dust & Scratches, 1 pixel, threshold to the liking.
DireLilith posted Sun, 28 January 2018 at 1:51 PM
old thread, i know. but i was suddenly having this issue in pp11. i turned off displacement maps in the firefly manual render settings. boom, white spots gone. thank you!! appreciate the help you guys give, even if it was six years ago XD <3