Snarlygribbly opened this issue on Feb 01, 2012 · 84 posts
Snarlygribbly posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 6:17 PM
I've been trying to make a metal shader lately.
Some of the results are looking ok to me, certainly good enough to use in my own renders. I thought I'd post a few renders to show you where I'm up to with it.
This is iron.
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Snarlygribbly posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 6:17 PM
Brushed copper
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Snarlygribbly posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 6:18 PM
Hammered gold
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Snarlygribbly posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 6:18 PM
Gunmetal
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Snarlygribbly posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 6:19 PM
A bronze
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Snarlygribbly posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 6:20 PM
You can add rust too ...
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Sa_raneth posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 6:22 PM
lookin good
Snarlygribbly posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 6:23 PM
All these variations and more are controlled by a few parameters in the shader tree
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Snarlygribbly posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 6:24 PM
A nice shiny chrome :-)
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Snarlygribbly posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 6:29 PM
A rough gold?
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Snarlygribbly posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 6:31 PM
A brushed stainless steel
I'll stop there, but you can see that it's possible to make all sorts of metallic effects with these few parameters.
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lkendall posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 7:09 PM
Thanks at Renderosity as at other Places.
lmk
Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.
Miss Nancy posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 7:58 PM
I saw those when you posted them on legume's newsgroup - very nice IMVHO. one question that may be inevitable - can you reduce diffuse colour on the uncorroded metals, so that they're mostly reflective?
bagginsbill posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 8:08 PM
I have 19 "traditional" metals, as accurate as I can get them.
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bagginsbill posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 8:10 PM
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bagginsbill posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 8:12 PM
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bagginsbill posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 8:14 PM
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bagginsbill posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 8:16 PM
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bagginsbill posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 8:18 PM
Nevertheless, for purposes of fantasy materials, you can mix diffuse and specular reflections. Some examples in green here.
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bagginsbill posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 8:21 PM
Here is the candy finish in red and some other colors.
The candy finish is:
A base metallic layer, somewhat blurry
A transparent tint layer that alters the color before and after it hits the base metallic layer. The color intensity of this layer depends on viewing angle - simple geometry. I covered the effect in the BBNylon thread.
A clear gloss top coat.
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bagginsbill posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 9:00 PM
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Winterclaw posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 9:22 PM
Bill, are those bricks on the first image procedural too?
WARK!
Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.
(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)
JoePublic posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 9:56 PM
Attached Link: http://metalflakecorp.com/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=31&page_id=27
Love that Candy, Bagginsbill.Just two remarks:
The transparent candy paint always contains one or more flourescent pigments as a "secondary" color mixed with the transparent non-flourescent main color. This creates an interresting color changing effect depending on the angel of view.
Sometimes the candy paint itself also contains metallic flakes or mica.
And second, the base coat can vary from a very finely grained to a very rough metallic paint of various colors. (Most commom are white, silver, gold and black)
bagginsbill posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 10:26 PM
Quote - Bill, are those bricks on the first image procedural too?
I wish. No they're the first image here:
http://www.cgtextures.com/texview.php?id=17707
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Miss Nancy posted Wed, 01 February 2012 at 10:40 PM
I daresay snarly deserves a thread of his own for these metals, however in re: candy-apple car-customising paints, word on the street is that they require a special sprayer for the base coat (metallic paint) as the aluminium flakes are larger than those found in ordinary metallic paints. n.b.: when one uses the term "metallic layer", it doesn't mean a metal surface, rather the paint sprayed on a primed metal surface AFAIK.
Latexluv posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 2:07 AM
I love all of them! I wanzit all, my precious! :)
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
Snarlygribbly posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 3:25 AM
Attached Link: EZMetals
I've packaged my shader with a few presets into the linked zip file. Feel free to download it and try it out.NB: It is for Poser Pro 2012 and Poser 9 only.
It will not work properly in earlier versions of Poser.
If anybody can find any use for it, then consider it released into the public domain.
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CaptainMARC posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 3:29 AM
Thanks! Very useful!
Latexluv posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 6:03 AM
Thank you! I will play with it!
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
Snarlygribbly posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 8:38 AM
Quote - I have been studying multi-layer materials.
These look amazing.
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hborre posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 9:02 AM
I will definitely take a close look at this. I am into the habit of changing metal surfaces for procedurals. This may absolutely be handy. Thanks.
bagginsbill posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 9:03 AM
SG - Have you tried building shaders with matmatic yet?
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Biscuits posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 9:05 AM
Thank you for the freebie metal mats Snarly!
Love that they are for IDL renders!
Latexluv posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 9:51 AM
SG these are great! BB, eagerly awaiting your material package as well!
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
Snarlygribbly posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 11:00 AM
Quote - SG - Have you tried building shaders with matmatic yet?
No, not yet. I keep thinking I should though.
Perhaps surprisingly, I feel a little daunted by it. Then again, I usually find things are much easier than I'd imagined, once I decide to do something. Maybe it's time to give it a try.
Quick question: do you have any control over the layout of the nodes when using matmatic or is the positioning all automatic?
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 1:07 PM
You can control the layout. Each node has a pos attribute, which is just an x,y tuple. If you assign a pos to the node, it uses it. If you don't, it calculates one.
You can also decide which nodes are open or closed, and which nodes show a preview.
Nodes identified as parameter nodes, via the PM or PM2 or PMC functions, will automatically be placed on the left side of the page.
Note that messing with node position somewhat dilutes the value of using matmatic.
For example:
candyColor = color ** (1 / (.1 + .9 * EdgeBlend(1, 0, 1)))
There are four nodes in there - to position them explicitly you'd have to break that nice clean expression up into many more.
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 1:28 PM
Here's something to try - not a complete candy paint shader, but it is the essence of it. This makes 47 nodes. It has auto enabled shader GC, and works all the way back to Poser 5. The parameter nodes Candy Color, Candy Blur, and IOR will be arranged neatly on the left side.
color = AGC(PMC(Color(.8, .03, .03), "Candy Color"))
candyBlur = PM(2, "Candy Blur")
ior = PM(1.6, "IOR")
candyColor = color ** (1 / (.1 + .9 * EdgeBlend(1, 0, 1)))
baseColor = WHITE
baseFresnel = .6 + .4 * ((1 - .18 * EdgeBlend(1, 0, 1)) ** 30.8)
reflectBase = candyColor * baseFresnel * baseColor * AGC(Reflect(0, .6, candyBlur, .1))
reflectSurface = AGC(Reflect(0, .2, 0, .1))
fresnel = TrueFresnel(ior)
output = Blend(reflectBase, reflectSurface, fresnel)
View(GC(output))
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
bagginsbill posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 1:35 PM
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Snarlygribbly posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 3:40 PM
Ok, that was quite painless.
Downloaded, installed and configured matmatic. Saved your example candy paint script as a mm1.txt file and ran matmatic.
Worked first time :-)
Cool. So now I have to read the documentation carefully and see if I can write something from scratch. Doesn't seem so daunting now.
Thanks BB.
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lkendall posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 3:42 PM
SnarlyGribbly:
RobynsVeil will be ecstatic that some one has joined her on the Mathmatics-side.
lmk
Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.
Snarlygribbly posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 4:06 PM
@lkendall: Yes, I had noticed that Robyn mentions it from time to time :-)
@BB: Ha! You'll wish you'd never mentioned matmatic to me :-) ... any chance the Scatter node could be updated to be compatible with the latest builds?
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 4:21 PM
Latest builds? You mean there's a change in SR2? I haven't installed it yet. What's different?
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Snarlygribbly posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 4:39 PM
Quote - Latest builds? You mean there's a change in SR2? I haven't installed it yet. What's different?
Scatter node now has a Scatter_Group input.
It means we can put the skin in one scatter group, and mouth materials in another. No more blue skin that way. Same with skin/nostrils materials.
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bagginsbill posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 4:58 PM
That's easy to add. But I will have to install it and reverse engineer the internal parameter name. They don't document any of this, so each time I have to hand-build a material using a new feature, save it, open it in a text editor, and look at what got stored.
If you want to just post me an MT5 with nothing but a scatter node in there, then I would not have to install SR2 and I could get you an updated matmatic very quickly.
I'm in the middle of work at the moment.
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Snarlygribbly posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 5:27 PM
I use a simple wacro to give me data on the nodes in a shader, including internal names of the node and its inputs:
Name: Scatter (Internal name = scatter)
Type: scatter
Location: (255, 34)
Material = 1.0
Use_Material_Color = 1.0
Texture_Detail = 0.5
scale = 1.0
maxError = 0.20000000298
Color = (1.0, 1.0, 1.0)
Scatter_Group = 1.0
I've attached the .mt5 anyway.
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LilWolff posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 6:20 PM
Snarlygribbly thank you for sharing the metals
bagginsbill posted Thu, 02 February 2012 at 6:54 PM
SG I updated the matmatic page with 1.5.0 - it has the Scatter_Group added to Scatter and to SubsurfaceSkin. (I assumed it was there too - let me know if it isn't.)
There are a couple other new things that were waiting in the wings. See the included Revision History for details.
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Snarlygribbly posted Fri, 03 February 2012 at 3:33 AM
Thanks for that BB! All looking good now.
The timing of my interest in Matmatic is especially bad as I'm about to go away for the weekend so won't be able to explore it for a few days. I'm trying to resist the temptation to take a netbook with me as I'm supposed to be photographing and being sociable, and I know what I'm like if I have a 'pooter with me!
Anyway, this looks like it'll be a real boon once I get my head around it, which a quick glance through the documentation suggests will be quite straightforward.
Thank you!
ps: Just a tiny thing, but the paragraph on your free site introducing v1.5 still refers to the 1.4 zip.
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bagginsbill posted Fri, 03 February 2012 at 8:14 AM
Thanks - I fixed the page.
Make sure you have a look at PP2012.mm1.txt - in the PP2012-Demos folder.
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Keith posted Fri, 03 February 2012 at 11:07 AM
Just to be clear: that's an internal, beta-testing SR2, yes?
bagginsbill posted Fri, 03 February 2012 at 11:24 AM
Beta is, by definition, external. But, yes, it is in beta.
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Keith posted Fri, 03 February 2012 at 11:51 AM
Good. I was scrambling around online to see when I missed news of a new SR.
alexcoppo posted Fri, 03 February 2012 at 11:58 AM
Are there any publicly available info about SR2?
GIMP 2.7.4, Inkscape 0.48, Genetica 3.6 Basic, FilterForge 3 Professional, Blender 2.61, SketchUp 8, PoserPro 2012, Vue 10 Infinite, World Machine 2.3, GeoControl 2
bagginsbill posted Fri, 03 February 2012 at 12:17 PM
No and I said too much already. We are under NDA.
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Gareee posted Fri, 03 February 2012 at 2:11 PM
This is not the SR2 you are looking for.
Waves Hand
Move along.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
Tiny posted Wed, 15 February 2012 at 4:13 AM
Good looking shaders Snarlygribbly. And thanks for sharing.
I was in a desperate need for a chrome (ish) shader and will use these for my testing.
BB, your shaders looks fab as always. Can't wait to get my hands on those. :)
Waves to Gareee! Long time no see/hear. :)
lmckenzie posted Wed, 15 February 2012 at 5:49 AM
Now we can address Poser's sad lack of a great Low Rider.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
Gareee posted Wed, 15 February 2012 at 8:40 AM
Hey, Tiny! You really want to look into zbruush fibermesh if you own it. It made me think of you.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
arrowhead42 posted Wed, 15 February 2012 at 10:33 AM
These are for Poser? Truly great looking! When and where might they be available? These will definitely be worth having -
Here's the link to my freebies: https://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/?uid=493127
My cousin Jack can speak to beans. That's right.... Jack and the beans talk
Snarlygribbly posted Wed, 15 February 2012 at 11:06 AM
Quote - These are for Poser? Truly great looking! When and where might they be available? These will definitely be worth having -
Which ones are you referring to?
The ones by Bagginsbill will work with most (all?) versions of Poser but are not yet available. I understand their availability is imminent though, and I suspect they are going to be very popular.
My own metal shaders (those shown at the beginning of the thread) are only for Poser 9 and Poser Pro 2012, but are free to download from:
http://snarlygribbly.org/misc/em/EZMetals.zip
Free stuff @ https://poser.cobrablade.net/
hborre posted Wed, 15 February 2012 at 11:12 AM
Sg, while you are online, is there any way to scale the procedural mapping to fit smaller UV mapped objects. I wanted to apply rusty procedurals to chains but the mapping was too large.
Snarlygribbly posted Wed, 15 February 2012 at 11:48 AM
Quote - Sg, while you are online, is there any way to scale the procedural mapping to fit smaller UV mapped objects. I wanted to apply rusty procedurals to chains but the mapping was too large.
Try reducing the Scale parameter in the 'Rust Pattern' node? It's the node at the very bottom of the middle column.
Free stuff @ https://poser.cobrablade.net/
hborre posted Wed, 15 February 2012 at 11:13 PM
Thanks, I'll give that a try.
arrowhead42 posted Thu, 16 February 2012 at 9:31 PM
Snarlygribbly, any chance yours will work in Poser 6? I haven't upgraded for a while, and money-wise, I'm not likely to any time soon.
Here's the link to my freebies: https://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/?uid=493127
My cousin Jack can speak to beans. That's right.... Jack and the beans talk
Snarlygribbly posted Fri, 17 February 2012 at 2:35 AM
Quote - Snarlygribbly, any chance yours will work in Poser 6? I haven't upgraded for a while, and money-wise, I'm not likely to any time soon.
No, it uses nodes only available in P9+
I understand BB's will support legacy versions of Poser though.
Hm. Maybe I can make some small changes to produce a P6 version? I'll see!
Free stuff @ https://poser.cobrablade.net/
bagginsbill posted Fri, 17 February 2012 at 7:02 AM
SG - remember it's time for you to use matmatic?
Matmatic will give you the true Fresnel functions that work all the way back to P5.
Here is a totally credible chrome with built-in automatic GC and adjustable IOR.
The IOR of 11.2 produces 70% reflection at normal incidence - about average for chrome. The very best most expensive chrome is 85% - but almost never keeps that - some (tiny) level of oxidation always sets in.
ior= PM(11.2, "IOR") # parameterized index of refraction
rv = TrueFresnel(ior) # the Fresnel equation
reflect = AGC(Reflect()) # the reflection node (anti-gamma applied since this is incoming material)
output = rv * reflect # the correctly modulated reflection
View(GC(output)) # the finished surface
That was the long version, for you to learn from. Here's the short version.
View(GC(TrueFresnel(PM(11.2, "IOR")) * AGC(Reflect())))
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Gareee posted Fri, 17 February 2012 at 8:20 AM
Sometimes I think BB knows a different language that I've never learned. ;)
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
fonpaolo posted Fri, 17 February 2012 at 8:45 AM
Quote - Sometimes I think BB knows a different language that I've never learned. ;)
...yes he talks at 256 bit! ...instead we all almost at 32! lol
Gareee posted Fri, 17 February 2012 at 9:08 AM
Heck, I'm still babbling in my old Atari 800 8 bit language!
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
arrowhead42 posted Fri, 17 February 2012 at 11:24 AM
You're all talking about a mile over my head!
Thanks, SG - but don't go out of your way.... that's way too much work. I'll check out Bagginsbill's when they come out.
Here's the link to my freebies: https://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/?uid=493127
My cousin Jack can speak to beans. That's right.... Jack and the beans talk
fonpaolo posted Fri, 17 February 2012 at 11:55 AM
I must say that after two BB's post, my brain starts to overheat and smoke despite I use math almost every day... lol
Gareee posted Fri, 17 February 2012 at 12:34 PM
You just need to use 16 oz of a alcohol coolant mix afterwards.
I find rum and coke does the trick quite nicely, and my perceived render quality also improves.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
Snarlygribbly posted Fri, 17 February 2012 at 1:08 PM
Quote - SG - remember it's time for you to use matmatic?
Hi BB.
I've been playing with matmatic quite a bit. I'm very impressed with it: simple to use and remarkably economical in terms of the amount of code needed. I know people have made some jokes about it (in good humour, I should add) but for me the code is elegant and simple. I like it.
I will certainly be using it for future adventures in shader construction.
However, with all the other projects I have on the go at the moment I haven't the time or the inclination to use it to revisit projects which, for me, are finished. It's a tool for future projects.
Also, especially in respect of the EZMetal shader, I don't want to step on your toes. I know your metal shaders will easily surpass mine in flexibility and accuracy, but nevertheless the EZMetal shader would probably be 'good enough' for many people and therefore cut down on your market potential, and I don't want to do that. I'll be one of the first to snap up your shaders when they're released :-)
Thank you for matmatic. As soon as I've got some other projects finished I'll be having a serious look at it, but first impressions are pretty good!
Free stuff @ https://poser.cobrablade.net/
Tiny posted Sun, 19 February 2012 at 7:49 AM
Quote - Hey, Tiny! You really want to look into zbruush fibermesh if you own it. It made me think of you.
Don't own it and have no clue what it is. I did see Mec4D's testings which I think was that. Will have a look.
Gareee posted Sun, 19 February 2012 at 7:51 AM
Yeah thats what shes using... fibermesh can be made for anything from hair to plant leaves or grass. Once the olys are generated, you can apply a transmap or color map, and even output morphs to add additional styles.
Its dang impressive!
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
Tiny posted Sun, 19 February 2012 at 8:10 AM
Sure is! I've watched a few youtube vids now and it looks like lots of fun. Am very jelous of the easy styling. It takes weeks for me to get the styling right in Poser hair room. :(
Gareee posted Sun, 19 February 2012 at 8:38 AM
Yeah you can style fibermesh in minutes. I've always had a love/hate thing with zbrush. I love the features, but learning it is a royal bitch.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
Tiny posted Sun, 19 February 2012 at 8:59 AM
Agree 100%. I've given it a try now and then through the years but never liked it.
fonpaolo posted Sun, 19 February 2012 at 9:05 AM
Since what Mec4D is doing is not stated to be for us Poser users (unless you install DS4 and run the exporter), is there a possibility that some talented Zbrush user can do this "magic" for us?
I'm sorry for all those who create hair in the "old manner", but that way is much better!!!
P.S. please, this is not intended for to start another war.
Sorry for being OT.
Gareee posted Sun, 19 February 2012 at 9:06 AM
Once it clicks though, its REALLY GOOD. I'm been forcing myself to stick with it since Jan, and am getting better with it daily.
The problems with learning it are that there is SO much info out there, in a few different places, and that there is also a lot of OLD out of date info out there as well, and some of it is no longer relavant.
I'm thinking its well worth the ride though.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
Gareee posted Sun, 19 February 2012 at 9:27 AM
Fon, Cath's hair it should work just fine in poser. Shes still learning the creation process (like the rest of us) but I've done some tests here, and it does work fine.
One issue I;'m concerned with is the high polycounts that she is experimenting with. (Some hair is at 600,000 polys!) Granted, today's systems are more robust to handle things like that, but its impractical to have morphs built in for something that size.)
IMHO it would be better to just load that specific stlye you want.
Shes doing it for genesis first, because it auto generates "follow" morphs for different morphed shapes. You could easily do that for V4 as well, but for anything other than scaling I think the morphs might be somewhat problematic for developement.
Most people use the default head shapes anyway, so for that it would be a non issue.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
fonpaolo posted Sun, 19 February 2012 at 10:35 AM
Sorry Gareee, but perhaps you haven't read the part between the parentheses, as I don't have DS4 installed and I don't want to, so, for the moment it's useless for me.
I asked her for a Poser installer, but for now it's only in DS format and don't know in future.
Gareee posted Sun, 19 February 2012 at 11:57 AM
Why would you need a poser installer, since genesis is ds4 only? Without poser genesis, isn't hair for it kind of worthless?
The point you missed though is that the type of hair developement she is doing works perfectly fine in poser.
Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.
fonpaolo posted Sun, 19 February 2012 at 1:56 PM
Yes, I know the hair will work in Poser and...
No, since there will be a V4, M4 and K4 fit morph, it will work on previous models too.
So, not only for Genesis... ;)
And... with a little tweaking, this hair can be fitted to any figure, this is what I do mostly, no matter what kind of figures they're made for.
