Well,

I'm not going to mention names because I'm not like that.

I asked in an email to somoene who made a free model that was "For Private Non-Commercial Use Only....." in a commercial render for a product I'm setting up at the momment.

Note, its just for the render, nothing else, not to be resold, or anything like that. You know what they told me? They said "Glad you like the model, but if its used for commercial purposes I usually ask for the sum of $25.00." Note, on that site, there is no price tag next to that model.

WTF? Why do people have to let the all mighty dollar get in the way of everything? Some of us can't afford diddly right now, so I guess I'll be using another classic car that came with Poser instead of that one.

Shame, I really like the artists work. But if snobbery is going to get in the way, I'll go else where.

Like I said, not mentioning names, but am I being overly sensitive or you think I have the right to bitch about it? I find it kind of disgusting, personally. It's sort of like the persona of stars asking for 25.00 for autograph expenses.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

Actually, it is kind of funny...

You do want to use a free product for commercial purposes, but you are not willing to pay a small license fee?

Even, if there is no price tag next to the free - for non-commercial use only - product, the creator can ask
for any amount depending on the kind of use.
He may ask $ 25.00 of you and $ 2,500.00 from someone who wants to use it in a huge advertising campaign.

So, yes, I do think you are somewhat overreacting.

Yesterday's the past, tomorrow's the future, but today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.

Quote - It's sort of like the persona of stars asking for 25.00 for autograph expenses.

If it took the star a couple of weeks of grinding work to make that autograph, maybe the comparison would hold.

I think you might be taking things a little too personally.

If I spent hours and hours creating a product that I'm kind enough to give away for free, I might well want some compensation should someone use my product to make money.

I think the problem is that dividing the usage rights into two broad categories (personal v commercial use) leaves people like you in the cold.

If the marketing department of a multinational corporation decides to save itself some money and uses a "free" model in one of their ad campaigns, I don't think any of us would fault the creator for wanting to be paid.

But when a very small business, or an artist who might conceivably at some point be asked if they want to sell (or license) a render or a print of a render -- even though it's actually unlikely that they will make much, if any, money from their usage of a model, has to limit themselves to commercial license, it can be annoying. I get that.

But, really, someone took a whole lot of hours out of their life to make a model. It's never arrogant to ask for money. Some vendors do seem to have an overly optimistic idea of the current market value of their products, but I don't think it's arrogant for them to ask for a fair price. Given the time it takes to make models, IMO, fair price would be more like what is typical on Turbosquid. That you can even get a decent model of a car for commercial use for $25 is, when you really think about it, quite astounding.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

However, I did offer a free set of what I made in return, I guess that still wasn't justifiable enough. Mine took hours to create as well too.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

You want to use something someone else made and don't want to pay what they are asking, right?

well gee yes that's all about you

What is the irreplaceable bang this freebie adds to a promo?

Background setting, prop, clothing, hair?

Please promos are supposed to be subject centric, the product is the subject anything else is a distraction

If you're trying to sell an add-on for a freebie good luck none of your "custumers" are likely to pay to add to a free item of less then V3-V4 figure status/calibre

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

You ARE overly sensitive.

Why is it okay for YOU to make money off the original artist's work and NOT okay for him/her to get a cut?

I'm just saying.

Software: Daz Studio 4.15, Photoshop CC, Zbrush 2022, Blender 3.3, Silo 2.3, Filter Forge 4. Marvelous Designer 7

Hardware: self built Intel Core i7 8086K, 64GB RAM, RTX 3090 .

"If you spend too much time arguing about software, you're spending too little time creating art!" ~ SomeSmartAss

"A critic is a legless man who teaches running." ~ Channing Pollock

My Gallery My Other Gallery

Quote - You ARE overly sensitive.

Why is it okay for YOU to make money off the original artist's work and NOT okay for him/her to get a cut?

I'm just saying.

+1

In fact it's attitudes like yours which are the reason I haven't released any freebies in a while

My Freebies
Buy stuff on RedBubble

Well, ask and learn I guess. Sorry not so many other people see it the same way. That's why people get away with that sort of behavior.

And FrankT, maybe its not attitudes like mine, but laziness getting in the way that you haven't released any freebies in a while?

And also Frank, implying that you made freebies -- that would say you're "Selling" something, which I see no marketplace site for you either or items listed for sale.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

not lazyness at all - I use them in my renders a lot, I just don't release them - the render "Blast Doors" is all modelled by me for example. There's no "implication" about me releasing freebies. The link is in my signature or if you are too lazy to read that then they are here:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/index.php?username=FrankT I don't have to sell things to give away freebies

My Freebies
Buy stuff on RedBubble

ok this worth a flamewar?

if so, who's the best one to bet on here? will it be fists or just pissing up walls?

inquiring minds would like to know... since it's not that important. the answers been given, the rest now is just flames.

"Winning a flame war is like winning gold at the special olympics.."

Personally, I see nothing wrong with someone asking for $$ if their product is going to be used by someone else in a commercial venture. Its only fair. After all, if you're going to be using it in a commecial venture, you should be able to afford it? It would be akin to you creating some renders, putting up for others to see, then someone adds those images to their pay site.. You created it, put it up for free but somoene else makes money from it.. ?

If someone is able to create something I am not able to myself, and it benifits me in the long run, why should they not be rewarded for their time and effort.. and skills that I do not possess?

its like everything else.. if you don't want to pay licensesing fees then don't use it..

but that's just me..

I'm really big on the open-source movement and the philosophy surrounding this movement. We've just released V4-WM and Outfitter for FREE, something that will revolutionise Poser 9 / Poser Pro 2012 figures and how they work. All of this is done to give back to the community.

Can one attach a dollar value to what this team has created? No. Because it's not about money, it's about community.

Artists are artists: we're getting a "world-renouned" artist to paint the facade of the hospital I work at for some sum (won't go into that, but it's a fair amount). Should this artist be doing this for free? I can't say. The organisation have been able to agree on a dollar value on his work. And this is where the real pivotal point is:

Look at this as a transaction, Johnny. You have the right to render this item under the terms of the artist's conditions of use. You wish to abide by those terms, so in order to to get his consent to use this in a setting outside of those conditions, you ask his permission. He asks for a certain amount of money. You find it too much to pay. Transaction is completed. You won't use his item for your commercial render. Everyone is happy. Sort-of.

We all use items that we either paid money for (like windows) and thus feel we can expect to have certain rights, or ones we received for free but with conditions. If the price this artist is asking is one you feel is too high, you have two options: the route you took or negotiate on the price. I wouldn't let feelings get into it: the artist feels the price is fair... you don't. MD developers feel the price for their software is fair; i don't. Transaction ends with you not using the item and me not buying MD.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

This is exactly the reason why I decline to download ANYTHING to which I do not receive the complete usage rights. You are either selling it, or you're not. You're either giving it away, or you're not.

I'm with Johnny on this one to this extent: If I can pay $15 for a commercial product and get unlimited usage rights, it does seem a little bit like a bait and switch for someone to ask $25 for a "freebee."

However, as Robyn has so accuartely pointed out, if the asking price is too high, then the deal ends right there. No reason to get mad about it... you just can't do business.

End of line.

Johnny's attitude is commendable IMVHO. some users may not even bother to ask permission, if it's true that dishonest users have tried to package and sell freestuff items in collections at warez sites. however, $25 is a bargain, if all sales are attributable to the promo renders. those cars are so finely detailed that the creator could sell them here along with the Ford, chevy, pontiac, audi, benz and other trade-mark/trade-dress autos, which means he could have asked for a percentage of sales rather than just a one-time $25 fee.

Quote - Johnny's attitude is commendable IMVHO. some users may not even bother to ask permission, if it's true that dishonest users have tried to package and sell freestuff items in collections at warez sites. however, $25 is a bargain, if all sales are attributable to the promo renders. those cars are so finely detailed that the creator could sell them here along with the Ford, chevy, pontiac, audi, benz and other trade-mark/trade-dress autos, which means he could have asked for a percentage of sales rather than just a one-time $25 fee.

I agree. You did the right thing negotiating with the artist, Johnny, instead of just using the item in terms that went against the conditions of use. However, nothing obligates the artist to reward you for being honest. Indeed, as Miss Nancy pointed out, $25 as a one-time fee for a commerical render is pretty reasonable.

A commercial render should generate some income for you. See that $25 as an expense.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

I beg to differ. If Johnny had asked and then just abided by the creators terms, THAT would have been commendable. But instead he comes to post about it to get support for his hurt feelings and then get's offended when people suggest that he was indeed being too sensitive and goes on to be offensive and call someone lazy.

In my eyes, he lost all commendation the second he made the issue public fodder. Then he lost my respect for stooping to name calling.

Splitting hairs here but is the free item going to be used in the final item at all? Is it just for a promo and not included in the commercial for sale item?

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

The discussion is interesting, useful, informative.... the personal attacks however, are not.

Please knock it off.

“So, roll me further B_t__h!”

Just a promo render. That's all. Wanted it to be shown what the prop could be used as. I didn't want to sell the model what so ever. Just use it in an image with my prop.

Please also note, FrankT's attitude statement is what made me defend myself. Nothing more nothing less.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

I think you are entitled to your feelings whatever they may be. It's good that you asked first though. So many don't. For me, I would't use something in the beginning if I knew it could not be used commercially no matter how cute or great it is. But that's me. I also won't buy a vendor's products if the readme tells me I can't use it commercially. Most vendor's don't care if you turn their applications into pngs to sell. However, there are a handful who forbid anyone to make pngs out of their props to sell or give away. I think it's silly because the people who buy my pngs don't use a 3D program, don't want to, and never will. They simply want the png to make whatever with it. They will never buy that vendor's application anyway. I read and understand the terms and it's my choice if I buy (or download the freebie) or not. That's why it is so important for me to read what the conditions are before I buy or use something. I purchased something once without reading the info and found out after the fact, I couldn't use it to sell or give away as a png or psd file. Now it is sitting in my computer and I doubt I will ever use it. I learned the expensive way.

@SingAndPrayIsMe: I think we've all done that (learned the expensive way).

I think the key transaction to make is this: there is no such thing as a "Must-Have" - that tends to fade all those bad feelings away when other transactions don't go to expectation.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

Here is a thought, make your own prop.

End of problem.

If the person wants $25 bucks to use it based on thier license, either pay it or go another route.

Complaining about it has done nothing for your cause other than to give you a flaming front.

Feel free to bash me over it as well.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

Actually, it's make YOUR own prop -- not YOU own prop.....

It's not bashing either --- it's expressing my own opinion --- so before you try to correct me, make sure you do use the right terminology.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

Good call. I edited it for you. :)

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

I'm thinking a little less attitude is needed in this thread.

TO all.. lets keep answers to "answers" not bashing for asking questions and/or replying back to answers. If you have a problem with someone, the forum is not the place to discuss it.

Thanks guys

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

In the interest of simplicity...

Question: Am I just being overly sensitive?

Answer: 'fraid so.

While you aren't re-selling the item, this is clearly a commercial context, as ultimately you'll be making money from this venture. It's only fair that the creator of the item share in your success.

Think of it as a collaboration, rather than purchasing a product, if it makes the pill a little easier to swallow.

If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards...checkmate!

I see nothing wrong with asking money for use of a product that someone has made, and I too don't think 25 dollars is unreasonable at all.

But, I've said this before and been attacked, but here I go anyway.

I don't like the term free stuff being used for products that aren't for commercial render. I would prefer the word demo product or free (but not for commercial render) or something.

My guess would be that the OP thought it was free when he first spotted it, then read the fine print and that is what started all this.

In fact I would love to see a separate free stuff department where the free stuff is able to be used for commercial renders. This would be particularly nice for new poser users because i feel there is a real risk for them of dumping a ton of free stuff into their runtimes without realizing that if in 10yrs time they want to sell their render then they can't, and it will take them forever to pull all the bits out of their runtime again if it is all mixed in, once they understand what the word free stuff means to some people.

And if someone wants to make free stuff but not for commercial renders, it would be great if there was a separate department for that stuff. If I saw something in that section that I really needed for a render, I too would enquire about the cost, and if I could afford it I would buy it.

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

Most of the freebies I make are for non commercial use only and no amount of money will change that, simply because it's to protect myself and you. They're by and large based on works that are copyright to the BBC, who generally don't mind "fan art" but they'd start to get stroppy once money changes hands. Actually, you could use them in commercial renders but I expect you to pay my legal bills and no doubt your own when the shit hits the fan.

The others are entirely free to use in commercial stuff, as you see fit. That's my perogative and is by no means definitive.

The stuff I make as freebies, I could just as easily keep for myself, or - in the case of the non infringing potentials - sell them.

I can perfectly understand someone wanting to charge a license for commercial use of a free item; after all, if you stand to make some money off it, why not the creator? If it's good enough to use for a commercial purpose, it's good enough to pay for.

IIRC, BATLAB and several other Japanese freestuff makers do a similar thing. IMO, almost all Japanese freebies are of commercial quality, yet there are numerous creators who give their stuff away. It's reasonable to ask for some recompense under certain circumstances.

We make stuff for the fun of it and for the pleasure it brings to others in use. Free stuff is in the original spirit of the early Poser community; it's nice to be a part of that. I also owe my early days in Poser to many of the kind and skillful creators who donated tons of stuff I wouldn't have been able to afford or make for myself. Now I can, I do my bit to pay it back.

I am considering putting a new restriction on all my freestuff that it's not to be used for political purposes of any kind. I'm absolutely serious about that, btw. I hate all politicians with a passion and I don't want to see my stuff used to further their grubby agendas.

Keep in mind the comment I made earlier in this post, "I could just as easily keep them for myself or sell them". That applies to every freestuff creator.

So yes, I do believe you're being overly sensitive. Or cheap. ;)

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Creators have the right to make claims on their intellectual property, unless they expressedly waive that right. Pay to use, or use another model, but please, avoid becoming a thief.

Eternal Hobbyist

The free/fee model is pretty common. I have a lot of quality software that I can use for free as long as it isn't used for business. If you're going to make money, why is it wrong for the creator to want a taste? Your reference to autographs almost sounds like you think this person is some kind of diva for placing a value on their work for commercial use, but are you not expecting to be paid for your work?

Adding price tags to free items would probably only potentially confuse what is probably the vast majority of people who have no intention of commercial use. People working at that (commercial) level should be familiar with useage fees and assume they would apply if it is clearly marked for non-commercial use only - assuming the creator allows commercial use at all.

I'm wondering if they had said $2.00 you'd be upset. Is it the principal or the price? You were willing to offer your item in exchange so it doesn't sound like you are against the idea that some payment is appropriate.

I think of it in terms of fairness over and above commercial or legal stuff. If I lend you my lawnmower for free cuz you're broke or I'm just a nice guy, it's one thing if you cut your yard. If you make $200 cutting other folks yards, then we have no contract but it would be fair for you to give me a taste, no?

I'm not familiar with the commercial art world, but I bet they don't think such arrangements are odd or out of place at all. Are you overly sensitive - I don't know. maybe not sensitive so much as unrealistic.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

I see this analogy: My neighbor tells me I'm welcome to use his lawnmower whenever I want, for MY lawn. But then if I start taking his mower to other people's houses and charging them to mow their lawns.... Yeah, he has a right to some of the $$.

Shame, I really like the artists work. But if snobbery is going to get in the way, I'll go else where.

*It isn't snobbery to ask to be paid. It really is amazing that I have to point this out. $25 dollars isn't out of line for something that probably took well over 4 hours to create. In this deflated Poser market, some people acquire an unrealistic sense of entitlement. Your feelings shouldn’t be hurt when the creators of valuable stuff don’t give you free rein to profit from their efforts.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

I like Esther's idea of having multiple sections in our Freestuff area based on usage rights. That's something that would really differentiate Rendo's Freestuff section from any other site and it would stop a whole lot of these types of confusions in the process. Of course, rearranging current freebies into new catagories would be a massive project but it could be made doable with keywords I should think.

Another possibility would be to have the creators post their license terms in the "details".

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

I think different sections is overkill. Listing it in the details - definitely a good idea; and maybe a simple overlay on the thumbnail. IIRC, it's been suggested before.

The thing is, we're dealing with IP here, not a loaf of bread, it seems to me but IANAL People retain rights and can impose conditions. I know that it goes against the instinct that says if I "bought" it or it was "free," I can do with it as I want. You can quibble about the use of the word "free," but I don't think "demo" is necessarily more accurate or less confusing.

Personally, I'm a lot more peeved at not being able to sell software that I "bought" than I am about paying for commercial rights, but that's the way the law works. For that matter, I'm more irritated by morals clauses dictating what kind of image I can produce. I always honor requests in that regard, but bypass items that demand it. By the same token some people request donations for commercial use. I certainly don't have a problem with them requiring payment though. If you're really concerned that "free" shouldn't be contaminated with money then pass it on and don't make money on your use of free material. At least offer to donate the profits to some children's charity; then everyone wins.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

why wouldseparate sections be overkill? If it's not free for certain types of renders eg commercial, political, whatever, then it isn't quite free really and could definitely confuse a newbie.

I vote for separate sections.

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

I havent read every post, but I think a lot of what needs to be said has. I'll just add that I think characterizations like 'snobbery' and 'disgusting' are grossly unfair to the artist in question. The comment about celebs and autographs leads me to think that you may not have a realistic perception of how much money most 3d artists for the poser community make off of their work. Perhaps the artist in question 'cant afford diddly' right now either.

Good on you though for asking first, and for taking the time to read the liscence. I know I'll have a mess on my hands when it comes time for me to sort out what I can and cant use in my tangled mess of runtimes.

I am glad you are respecting the artists wishes on the matter though I do wish you had shown the artist more respect in bringing this to the forums. Since you seem to be planning to sell your work it would do you well to remember that however you treat folks on the forums is how you treat your customers, the poser market is a pretty small and we are pretty much all each others customers.

Clear licensing conditions included with the prop would go a long way to help avoiding threads like this. Most I have found have been pretty good.

I have a simple attitude ... if I can abide the the terms I will use it. If not, I find something else or attempt to create my own facimile. It may even require me to rethink the project into something I can manage.

Definitely not worth stressing about.

Just my humble .02 :-)

Quote - why wouldseparate sections be overkill? If it's not free for certain types of renders eg commercial, political, whatever, then it isn't quite free really and could definitely confuse a newbie.

I vote for separate sections.

Love esther

Looking at the details page of current free stuff, it clearly states commercial and/or non-commercial use.
This shouldn't confuse a newbie.

One could even argue, it does not state clearly, that you cannot redistribute the item.

In the end, you would have to print the full license next to each download link.

Yesterday's the past, tomorrow's the future, but today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.

Majority of people here are interested in rendering not in distributing. People should just assume free stuff isn't for distribution.

Is there anyone here that would like to distribute free stuff? My guess is no.

Well anyway, I do like it that the details state whether it is for commercial or not. I still would like to see it in a separate section though. To me they are totally distinct entities.

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

Well, it depends on your POV I suppose. I may be wrong but I assume that the vast majority of people, especially new users aren't doing commercial work, so we're adding another layer of stuff for the new folks and casual users who are more likely to be confused by it in order to help the smaller number who - by definition, doing commercial work, should be aware to check the terms before downloading. I simply think that providing notice is sufficient without requiring splitting up the downloads.

As you say the majority probably aren't interested in redistribution. Should we have a separate section of redistributable items for the people who are interested? Taking it to the logical conclusion, the only things that should be called "free" are those that allow you to do anything with them, and that's never been the case. I see your point but I think the distinction probably isn't going to catch on and AFAIK, I've never seen a site with such a distinction.

I also take your point about discovering years later you can't do commercial with an item. How many typical non-commercial users are going to not download something they like because the "might" someday want to use it commercially though? In reality, I really don't want to have to go through two freestuff sections (or free and faux-free) every time to save people who are interested the trouble of reading the terms (which I agree should be in Details) - maybe that's selfish on my part.

N.B. Though I diasgree with the idea, you are still one of the nicest people here :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

hehe thanks "

Should we have a separate section of redistributable items for the people who are interested?"

there wouldn't be enough people interested in doing this.

I think a lot of people wouldn't even look in the not for commercial render section if there were two sections.

And that's right about new users "

new users aren't doing commercial work"

so when suddenly their best mate says, hey that's a nice picture you did last year - lets make some greeting cards, they suddenly find their runtime is full of all sorts of stuff that shouldn't be there, all mixed together with stuff that should be.

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

How about filters? That would be easy enough to implement with tags. Those that find it important: use the filter. The rest: you have access to the whole shootin' match.

Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2

Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

Quote - How about filters? That would be easy enough to implement with tags. Those that find it important: use the filter. The rest: you have access to the whole shootin' match.

Best idea yet!

If I was on your shoes, I will make a counter offer.

"I really love your work, unfortunately, I dont have the funds to pay for a license right now, how about in exchange for the rights to use your product, I will put your name and website on bold in the credits? Or, if my campaign made money, I give you the amount you require?"

Flexibility not sensitivity wins business negotiations.

Passion is anger and love combined. So if it looks angry, give it some love!

Quote -

Looking at the details page of current free stuff, it clearly states commercial and/or non-commercial use.
This shouldn't confuse a newbie.

One could even argue, it does not state clearly, that you cannot redistribute the item.

In the end, you would have to print the full license next to each download link.

I don't know about separate sections, but people often have different ideas of what "no commercial use" means. Some allow their free stuff to be used for commercial renders but not for any other commercial use, others don't allow it at all, some charge if you want to use it for any commercial use. So to me (and I'm not a newbie) just saying "no commercial use" is still confusing. Depends on the person of course. I think it would be helpful if terms were stated more clearly in the readmes.

Cheers,
Alisa

RETIRED HiveWire 3D QAV Director

I think sometimes it's an idea to think about why a creator gives out items for free rather than sells them as not everyone is in to for the money. I give under non commercial terms because I wanted to give to the hobbiest amongst the community who "plays" in daz or poser and not to make money. Vendors can go buy their equipment as they probably would do in any other business set up. There are plenty of other alternatives in this world.

Some have asked if they can buy a licence from me, I have said no as that's not why I made them. Also, I don't see why someone should piggy back off my work and make money from items that have taken me hours/days to make. I have seen other forums where someone slated me as the terms stated they couldn't do commercial texture packs for my free clothing, why? because I give to the hobbiest for free and don't want them to then pay for a quick flood fill texture pack? (which is what I have seen of her work) plus I can just see that vendor thinking to themselves that they could actually make more money as the free items will be in a lot more runtimes and therefore a bigger potential customer base.

People tend to push terms to their limits, promotional renders are commercial usage, even though it is just a render, the usage is a means to make money/more money and you are using it as part of your business.

The free/fee offer of this creator may be that he is actually being flexible, they could so easily have said no.

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Quote - People tend to push terms to their limits, promotional renders are commercial usage, even though it is just a render, the usage is a means to make money/more money and you are using it as part of your business.

To me, commercial renders ARE commercial use, but I see commercial renders as different, really. Some examples using a free dress someone has created

1-You are advertising a house and you use a picture advertising it, which contains a person wearing the dress.

2-You are selling a hairstyle at Renderosity and use an image advertising it, where the woman is wearing the dress

3-You create a scene for a rendering contest, of a person in a ball room, and they are wearing the dress

In those circumstances, the free item is just one of many many parts of something else, and it is not going to be the thing that makes you money. You could do the same scenes in 1, 2 and 3 with ANY dress. But maybe you happen to like the particular free one a lot so want to use that.

Personally, I see this as VERY different than these commercial uses:

1-Creating textures for the dress and selling them

2-Making tubes of the dress or a brush from the dress and selling it.

These, to me, are DIRECTLY making money from the free item.

I certainly agree that it's up to the creator to set terms. And they may not want either type of usage (which again is up to them) but it's nice if they specify exactly what they mean by commercial use.

Cheers,
Alisa

RETIRED HiveWire 3D QAV Director

Quote - Just a promo render.

Not a lawyer but since you aren't selling the item and you aren't selling the promo render, shouldn't you be allowed to use the thing freely? If you used it for artwork and then sold the artwork, that'd be different.

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Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Quote - To me, commercial renders ARE commercial use, but I see commercial renders as different, really. Some examples using a free dress someone has created

1-You are advertising a house and you use a picture advertising it, which contains a person wearing the dress.

2-You are selling a hairstyle at Renderosity and use an image advertising it, where the woman is wearing the dress

3-You create a scene for a rendering contest, of a person in a ball room, and they are wearing the dress

In those circumstances, the free item is just one of many many parts of something else, and it is not going to be the thing that makes you money. You could do the same scenes in 1, 2 and 3 with ANY dress. But maybe you happen to like the particular free one a lot so want to use that.

Personally, I see this as VERY different than these commercial uses:

1-Creating textures for the dress and selling them

2-Making tubes of the dress or a brush from the dress and selling it.

These, to me, are DIRECTLY making money from the free item.

I certainly agree that it's up to the creator to set terms. And they may not want either type of usage (which again is up to them) but it's nice if they specify exactly what they mean by commercial use.

there is such a margin where people have different views and it's a case of where do you draw the line, personally I did allow the usage

you mentioned in the first list above in relation to promotional work and therefore gave 'limited commercial use',

however people saw that as anything goes and included the second list, even though it was stipulated in the readme :/

It's an age old problem and think it will continue to be discussed and debated as to what peoples views are on the subject and they will

all differ, doubt there will ever be a definate thumb of rule.

Tools:- Win10, Dell XPS8900, ZBrush, Marvelous Designer 11, Hex 2, PSP8. PSP 2019 Ultimate, DAZ Studio, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer, Filterforge 11, flowscape, Classic UVMapper, and several headache tablets.

Quote - How about filters? That would be easy enough to implement with tags. Those that find it important: use the filter. The rest: you have access to the whole shootin' match.

This is how ShareCG does it. ANd I find all of their filters exceptionally useful.

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Well, filters can be useful for some things, for example the night sky I found for the renders, but when you want to create vehicles, etc. it just does not cover what an actual 3D model can do sadly.

As far as my position on the 25.00, it's not everyone's business here in the forums how my personal life is at the moment, and its something that I really do want to share publically.

Don't you all read my signature? That definitely has something to do with my situation I'm in right now.

Please bear this in mind when we make snyde comments and rude remarks towards me.

Thanks.

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Oh, sorry, I meant search filters for the free-stuff section. Sorry to be unclear.

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Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]

Metaphor of Chooks

No problem Robyns -- I see what you're saying now =)

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yes, I think filters would be an excellent idea.

Well to answer your original question Ragtopjohnny, i think you were too sensitive, which may also well have to do with what you mentioned in your signiture. when you are in pain it takes over your whole life.

People have the right to do whatever they like with their products.

I do find it annoying if something is presented as "free" and then I read the fine print and find out I cannot sell my render one day if someone wants it. Or more in my case, if i use the thing in one little panel of my comic, then I can't sell my comic. But that is what the term "free stuff" often means in this community (to some people anyway), as you can see by all the above responses. Whenever you see the word free just think twice and try not to be disappointed.

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

Quote - **Don't you all read my signature? ** That definitely has something to do with my situation I'm in right now.

Please bear this in mind when we make snyde comments and rude remarks towards me.

Thanks.

1: Not everyone is in the habit of reading signatures and 2: If you know you are cranky because of a headache, it's up to you to make the effort to not be rude to others because of it!

These forums are full of people who suffer from one illness or another and we all need to monitor our own behavior and not expect others to treat us special because of it. I'm not in a habit of speaking of all my own issues in the forums, though many admins and a couple mod's know my issues. I've been known to get nasty when I feel bad and it's been up to me to correct that issue and not expect everyone else to tippy toe around me. Yes it would be nice if the world worked that way but it doesn't.

Steve,

I feel I wasn't rude at all what so ever until someone slammed my reputation with the Freebie comment.

There's a difference between rudeness and defending one's self.

I understand that its definitely not right to be rude to someone, I rarely am, except when I feel the need is there to explain it in no other way.

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Quote - there is such a margin where people have different views and it's a case of where do you draw the line, personally I did allow the usage

you mentioned in the first list above in relation to promotional work and therefore gave 'limited commercial use',

however people saw that as anything goes and included the second list, even though it was stipulated in the readme :/

I agree that people have different views of what "commercial use" means (which is why it's nice when it's spelled out), and even when it IS spelled out (as I know you did) there may be people who just ignore what the terms are (and in your case, I think it's unlikely they just "misunderstood"). That was very unfortunate for you and for everyone who WAS respecting the terms. People like that can ruin things for everyone.

Cheers,
Alisa

RETIRED HiveWire 3D QAV Director

That's true Alisa ---

People who totally disregard the system ruin it for everyone else.

I offered a free copy of my set in exchange, guess that wasn't enough. There was no price tag next to the model either on the page. Nothing, zip, zilch, nada.

Oh well, gonna look around else where I guess. =)

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I can see both points of view, yours and the vendors. And I don't think you are being over sensitive. Just looking at it a different way.

On one hand the item is free, but the limitations are restricted to personal use only, which is mainly just hobbiests.

On the other hand when you asked if you can use the item in a semi-commercial render, meaning an advertisement for a for sale product, not the sale of the actual render itself, you were asked to pay $25.00 for the license to do that.

I can see your frustration about this. It does frustrate me too. But I do side with the vendor in this case.

The vendor could have gone 3 ways on this:

1. Just say yes to you using the item in your commercialized render without asking for anything in return;

2. Just sayng no, to the concept of using the item in a commercialized render;

3. Doing what they did and asking for a license fee to use it in a commercialized render.

I think you would have been ok with them telling you #1 or #2. I imagine it seems to you that you are now being asked to pay for the item which was free when you downloaded it.

You aren't really buying the item so to speak.

The fact that you want to use the item in your commercialized render, means that it will add something to that render in order to catch the eye of a buyer for your product. So in that case the addition of this particular free item is adding value to your commercialized render, lending itself to more sales (hopefully), and increasing your bottom line.

All this vendor is asking you for is a few dollars for permission/license to use his/her product which in a sense is helping you make money. So if you are making money from essentially using his/her product, shouldn't he/she be entitled to some return on that?

I supposed he/she could have asked for a commission on each sale, but how do you work that out because he may not trust you to report on every sale.

So based on that, I do think the vendor was being nice about it. He/she didn't have to give permission at all. And if you are making money off of his/her efforts, I think that s/he should be entitled to a return on that.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

@ Ragtop - I hope you read my post because I believe I made a good point why you should consider the creator's side of things without, I hope, making any snide remarks regarding you.

Regarding illness and the like:

I'm a long term depression sufferer and I've been on some kind of anti depressant meds for longer than I've been here. I also started developing arthritis a few years ago and had knee surgery last year because of it. I'm unemployed due to these illnesses and various others and consequently I have very little money.

Around 18 months ago, my father - incidentally my very best friend in the world - died of cancer. You can imagine how much fun that was.

Apart from that, about 4 years ago I was beaten up by a gang of people, because I stood up to the criminals in the place where we lived. After that, they made our lives hell and finally smashed our windows. We were then given a new place to live for a "short while". Not a great place but better than living in fear. It was only a tiny place but since we were only going to be there for a few weeks it didn't matter. We had all our stuff put in storage for the time being. Two and a half years later, after a protracted legal battle with our landlord - there is effectively only one landlord here - we got moved to a place that's fit to live in. All our stuff in storage - around $30,000 in your money - was trashed, stolen and otherwise ruined by being stored for so long. We basically lost everything and have no means of replacing it.

There's loads of other shit we've had to deal with over the past 10 years that I'm not going to mention here but I can tell you most of it was less fun than sticking needles in your eyes.

My point? I'm not asking for sympathy nor even consideration. What I'm saying is, in all this time I've been a member at Renderosity, no matter what, I have never once taken my problems out on anyone here. If anything, I go the other direction to be nice, friendly and understanding. For sure, I've had a few "fights" but never once have I come looking for trouble; I've only ever responded in kind. In truth, I don't let things on teh internets get to me because I have much, much more in real life to be concerned with. This here and everything around it is just a bit of fun. Read my signature, for example; that should tell you all you need to know.

I like making pictures and stuff to go with them and if I get the chance to make a bit of cash along the way, that's a bonus.

Finally, please give a bit of consideration to what I said in my earlier post. If it's good enough to use in a commercial render, it's good enough to pay for. Every freestuff creator could decide to say "fuck it" and pull all their stuff overnight. Make it for ourselves only, or sell it. Then where would we be? Thirsty, real thirsty. Sorry, wrong movie but you get my drift.

Good luck with your venture, anyhow. I'm being serious; I like to see fellow Poser people getting by.

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Wow --- I hear yah Samtherapy -- your situation is none the less a very trying one, that's for sure.

I just kind of was taken back about the "cheap" comment.

I appreciate the luck with the venture and I say that likewise towards yours as well

I'm just building up libraries here at the momment, no where near ready to start selling yet with these headaches, and dealing with product support, etc.

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You didn't see the ;) at the end? Oh well. Can't win 'em all.

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Wow, Sam, now I see why you poofed during that time. I think Karma owes you some major good things from here on out. Sometimes I think we all get so focused on our own little crises, we lose sight of reality.

sorry --- missed the ;) at the end Sam.....

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Add my vote for filters. Even adding a one letter flag to the already unwieldy filenames wouldn't make them much worse and would make it easier to categorize stuff after the fact.

Even with them though, people are pointing out that it isn't as simple as yes/no. My thought is that anything that makes money falls under commercial - better safe than sorry. So even if its a dress on a figure in a promo for a car model, if you're selling the car, it counts. That dress is part of the overall effort to make money. If it's of no significance, use another one. If you like it enough to reeealy want to use it then you'll have to pony up. If you use a render on a commercial web page or a graphic on a program you sell etc., it's commercial. Yeah, that may seem overbroad in cases but it covers the fact that when money starts being made, people are more likely to become more proprietary shall we say. Start from that premise and any surprises will more likely be pleasant ones.

I have no idea of ever making a penny on my puerile pixelations, but who knows. I certainly wouldn't maintain Kosher and non-Kosher downloads based on the slim prospect though. Again, how many people are going to download only CUA (Commercial Use Allowed) items or segregate downloads unless they're pretty sure they will sell stuff - maybe more than I think. Unless you plan to sell something, why would you limit your images to CUA content? If you don't then when someone suggest selling that image, then you still may have used non-CUA content in it. I suppose it's a good idea, just in case, just like it's a good idea to do a lot of stuff up front that people don't do because they don't think they will ever need it :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Not that I want to prolong a fight or anything but You should perhpas re-read your OP and decide if you dont think it was a little rudely worded. Terms like snobbery and disgusting as I pointed out earlier started this one off on a hostile bent from the get go. If I was the artist you had a beef with I'd find this thread very offensive. If they havent read it that is for the best, if they have and have had the class not to respond good on them. If it had been me, I'd either have come to this with a whole lot of flame or just asked the mods to outright lock it right off the bat.

I'm not trying to critisize or incite, just encouraging you to approach things like this with the tact and respect, regardless of whatever discomfort or hardships you face outside of the poserverse, especially if you plan on selling stuff. I personally wont buy from vendors who dont conduct themselves to an acceptable standard on the forums they visit.

Quote - Steve,

I feel I wasn't rude at all what so ever until someone slammed my reputation with the Freebie comment.

There's a difference between rudeness and defending one's self.

I understand that its definitely not right to be rude to someone, I rarely am, except when I feel the need is there to explain it in no other way.

Well then all, I'd like to apologize if I offended anyone.

I'll try to do better in the future.

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And that makes it all good in my eyes. We should never be too right to apologize. Good going John! Thanks.

BTW I've had Bronchitis for two weeks. Can I get some cookies?

"

Again, how many people are going to download only CUA (Commercial Use Allowed) items or segregate downloads unless they're pretty sure they will sell stuff -"

me. I only have kosher stuff in my runtime (except for maybe some things that slipped into one of my runtimes when I was a real newbie, but I am very careful with what I do with that particular runtime).

But then I don't eat oinkie animals either.

Hope you find another model that does the job for you Ragtopjohnny.

Love esther

PS Sam, sorry to hear about all your troubles. Hope things get better for you.

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Quote - Well then all, I'd like to apologize if I offended anyone.

I'll try to do better in the future.

It's all good.

Just so long as we don't have a group hug. :D

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> Quote - > Quote - Well then all, I'd like to apologize if I offended anyone. > > > > I'll try to do better in the future. > > It's all good. > > Just so long as we don't have a group hug. :D

Omg! Group hugs! Love 'em!!!

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Buys popcorn to watch Acadia trying to force Sam into a group hug.....This looks like it'll be fun to watch!

sam, I hope somehow things will improve. maybe as spring approaches and the weather gets warmer. just hang in there.

Love the group hug smiley Acadia!

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I'm still hoping Acadia can make it over to see me and my family. There will be one huge group hug then. :)

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Quote - I'm still hoping Acadia can make it over to see me and my family. There will be one huge group hug then. :)

OMG! I so want to do that!!! Just that stupid things that cost me time and money keep getting in the way! I was off on unpaid leave for 5 months last year, then I moved and had the extra expense of having to replace some major furniture pieces. I'm hoping that I can put some funds away this year to come out and see you guys!

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Oh dear.

Guys and gals...

I didn't post the stuff about me to get sympathy or anything. There are thousands of people who have been through stuff in the past few years. I know of several here, some of whom make what I had to deal with look like a picnic, so I'm nothing special.

I consider myself a lucky guy; I have a great wife and two wonderful kids. Life is always interesting, at least.

My reason for posting was just to say, forget about your headaches/bad luck/whatever problems you have and come here to enjoy yourselves. Leave your troubles at the door and have a bit of fun. That's what I try to do.

You know, some of the kindest, most gracious people I have ever met - here and in RL - have had to contend with some absolutely terrible things. So next time you start to get stroppy with people on here, stop and take a look out the window. Remember this is only the internet, not life and death.

I do appreciate the kind comments, btw. Wouldn't be human otherwise. But that really wasn't the point.

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Whenever yoou can, Linda. You'll be made welcome. Just hope you can stand chaos. :)

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I also wouldn't come down on stars (or used to be stars) wanting to charge for autographs. They see their autographs going for good money on ebay and other places. For the folks that come to comic conventions and the like to sign autographs, they are usually footing a good part if not all of the bill to be there... airfare, hotel, table space, photos, etc. The charge you pay to get in usually goes to the organizer and the convention center rental.

It's the same for musicians selling CDs and autographs after a performance. It's how they make money as usually they are barely getting by when you consider they have to pay for their crew and fellow bandmates. It's been said for years that most bands don't make their money from the concert performance, they make it from the merchandise sold.

I've paid for Star autographs as well as recordings with no qualms whatsoever. My voicemail greeting is a recording of Dick Tufeld as the robot from Lost in Space telling people "Danger Danger! My Sensors Indicate someone is trying to reach the Armstrongs! If they fail to leave a message after the tone, Another Bubble Headed Booby will be lost in space forever!" I gladly paid $25 for him to record that in 1998 at the Return to Earth celebration in LA when they premiered the Lost in Space movie. It's not something I'd ever sell and now that he has passed away just recently it's even more priceless to me. So yeah, if it's worth it to use, it's worth paying for.

Quote - ok this worth a flamewar?

Where did you think you were again? ;)

In all seriousness, meh. There is a touch of overreaction... on both sides of it. I mean shit, at least the guy asked.

--

Ah well... still got a metric ton or three of boxen to pack, and once I get all the moving stuff done, then maybe (maybe?) I'll be able to get a hard disk big enough to carry at least one runtime, so I can actually do stuff again CG-wise on this little beastie.

At least you little bastards get to play w/ your CG toys once in awhile. I'm stuck with wrestling $#@! CenturyLink just to get a DSL line out there. (OTOH, given the backyard, it's still worth it).

On the plus side, getting my electricity from a utility that calls themselves a Public Utility District (hint: pronounce the acronym without giggling, I dare you) does make it light-hearted...

Cheers!

Exercise, Diet, Massages, Alternate Breathing Exercises, Yoga, Meditation & no computers will make your headaches go away.

Quote - Exercise, Diet, Massages, Alternate Breathing Exercises, Yoga, Meditation & no computers will make your headaches go away.

Repeating some very specific magical cantations while standing at the summit of Everest will work too. But you must get the words exactly right. ;P

Sorry, but I know more than one person who died decades early because they believed too strongly in the miraculous curative properties of non-mainstream medicine. I wouldn't trust a cure offered by someone who didn't know all of the details of my illness when I could be suffering from something very serious indeed.

But the suggestions certainly wouldn't hurt, and some of them probably have a decent likelihood of helping.

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Yeah, I do walk the treadmill, walk a mile every day. Hasn't done that much so far. Getting second opinions soon, gotta find a good doc. Tired of these, they've been listed as "Chronic Daily Headaches" as my Diagnosis, and they did rule out the PC (Thank goodness ;-)

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Beginners yoga is much better than the treadmill. Alternate nostril breathing works very well for headaches. Not straining the eyes with computers, tv, & reading will stop the muscle strain that causes headaches. The PC can not be ruled out if you still have headaches. They are just wrong in saying so. Your body is a book that only you can read. It is your soul's life to read it. Read it well for it is your destiny to do so. Take control of your life. Learn about yoga & meditation. Most doctors are idiots working in small paradigms. If you must do eye strain work take a break every 20 minutes. Do yoga for your eyes. Don't rely on idiots with MRI's to tell you what you should already know.

Quote - ...At least you little bastards get to play w/ your CG toys once in awhile...

[Windsor Davies]

Oh dear.

How sad.

Never mind.

[/Windsor Davies]

;)

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:)

I was just airing out the frustration a bit. After being all caught up in real-world stuff, I haven't had much time to do anything, well, fun online.

:)

I was just airing out the frustration a bit. After being all caught up in real-world stuff, I haven't had much time to do anything, well, fun online.

I know. :)

Hope the move goes/is going/went well.

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Damn, you guys. Your real life struggles are ruining an opportunity to vent about dumb drama in the forums! lotza luv

Best set I ever bought was the Robot set for V3 by SamTherapy. For the eye textures alone. Excellent set!! I have used those eye textures in several comix.

And with freebies being non-commercial...

I'd rather pay a license for everything I use than get it free and deal with the gray area of the freebie creator's 'license' that can change at any mood. If I use something free a lot, I donate to the creator's paypal account if they add a button - sharecg mainly.

I think many of us Poser users are totally spoiled by how much incredible content is available all over.

Thanks for the compliment, Coleman. I really should start making stuff for sale again. :)

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I know nothing (honesty just one of my weaknesses), but believe an artists work remains their property whether they sell the rights to it or not. I suppose its' an intellectual ownership issue. The fact that a question was asked "Do you mind if I use it?", and the answer "NO, as long as you pay me $x" is pretty much the answer I would have expected unless it stated may be used for free commercially. I guess sometimes it's not what the rights to use say, it's what they don't. Personally I think it was right to ask the question and acceptable to answer as the artist did.

Which ever way you look at it, call it promo usage, first take, rough cut etc etc, the work you display at stage one goes some way to ensuring you are able to progress, given the go ahead, hired, or whatever you want to call it to stage two. In that instance the whole process becomes commercial.

I tend to disagree with myself more than other people do :)

PS. I hear there is to be a Renderosity virtual boxing ring introduced to settle matters on any number of issues permanently ......oh how I wish it were true

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Daz Studio Pro 4.5 64bit

Carrara beta 8.5

Modelling: Silo/Hexagon/Groboto V3
Image Editing: PSP V9/Irfanview
Movie Editing. Cyberlink power director/Windows live movie maker

"I live in an unfinished , poorly lit box, but we call it home"

My freestuff

link via my artist page

Quote - so when suddenly their best mate says, hey that's a nice picture you did last year - lets make some greeting cards, they suddenly find their runtime is full of all sorts of stuff that shouldn't be there, all mixed together with stuff that should be. Love esther

Exactly my problem right now. I got someone who seems to like a pic of me for some kind of RPG project as art or so. But the thing is, I never planned to make them to be sold or used in this way. And today I am no longer sure if I used free stuff where the creator of the model has allowed to be used as commercial or not.

Quote - Well,

I'm not going to mention names because I'm not like that.

I asked in an email to somoene who made a free model that was "For Private Non-Commercial Use Only....." in a commercial render for a product I'm setting up at the momment.

Note, its just for the render, nothing else, not to be resold, or anything like that. You know what they told me? They said "Glad you like the model, but if its used for commercial purposes I usually ask for the sum of $25.00." Note, on that site, there is no price tag next to that model.

WTF? Why do people have to let the all mighty dollar get in the way of everything? Some of us can't afford diddly right now, so I guess I'll be using another classic car that came with Poser instead of that one.

Shame, I really like the artists work. But if snobbery is going to get in the way, I'll go else where.

Like I said, not mentioning names, but am I being overly sensitive or you think I have the right to bitch about it? I find it kind of disgusting, personally. It's sort of like the persona of stars asking for 25.00 for autograph expenses.

Why are you asking people on the internet if you are entitled to your feelings?

I vote YES.

You are entitled to your feelings.

As far as the specifics go:

There are TONS of modelers who would love to have their product appear in a promo image since it begs the question, "Hey who's (insert model here) is that?

Seems like the OP just wants attention & validation, when all of the answers lie within.

See the pot stirred.....

IP violation discussion aside, I would not regard a personal portfolio piece ("promo") as commercial use. Therefore, the original question may be without meaning.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

-Bill Clinton

Lets not start any bashing. If you do not have a constructive comments, don't reply.

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Am I Just Being Overly Sensitive Here?