I've been trying to get an idea of what the poser community would like to see in terms of content for male figures, so I thought, instead of spending more hours than I already have searching through all the threads in the forums here, and at other sites, I'd just ask the question straight out: 

If you were looking for a new male figure, what would you look for?

What is missing from the current selection of poser guys and what would you like to see? 

What do you think has caused previous males to fail and why?

Of course everyone knows that the Poser community is dominated by Vicky and all her incarnations, but there still seems to be a strong underlying desire for a male that somehow has not yet been met by the majority of content creators and all the previous male figures that have come along, so what should be done to help correct that, or at least fill the void. 

There's no wrong answer, so let's hear some thoughts?

To me I'd like to see one who was less 'pretty' out of the box.  Possibly that could be a function of the textures he ships with, but sometimes I think regardless of texture some of the guys lack a certain masculinity.  I'm not just talking about being a big beefy action hero type.  More normal sized people like Harrison Ford and clint eastwood have masculinity to burn..  

Not sure if that helps much as Its pretty subjective and pretty hard to pin down what the specific qualities are that I'm looking for

I think the thing that was missing from previous male figures is that they weren't female. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. It just seems that since I've been around (circa 1998 or thereabouts) it's always been The Vicky Show. I never thought it was right either, but that's the way it is ;).

I think an Eric Bana morph is missing too, but we won't go there...lol.

Laurie

For me, this is a hobby and I like girls. I don't do romance or sex, so there is little use for a male figure. I'm afraid that is true for a lot of people that use Poser. I think this may be the problem you are running into. Yes, there is less competition for male figures but there are also a lot fewer customers.

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Right, and I get that. So for those who don't use male figures in their work, this thread will be of little use to them. 

The question is for those who do use male figures, not whether or why they prefer the male figures over the female figures, or vice-versa. 

I must confess that I don't use male figures very much, so I'm probably the worst person to express an opinion on the matter. Never the less I feel compelled to get in my two cents worth. As I don't use males very much, I would like something that is usable straight out of the box, without having to buy a lot of extras.

Three things specifically. A good range of facial expressions included in the package. A good degree of genital dexterity. A passably good default texture bundled with the figure.

I don't want the default shape to be an anorexic wimp, or a fat slob, but neither do I think that we need another Schwarzenegger on steroids figure. Fit enough, but well within the normal range that you might see everyday on the street, is what I would like to see.

Hi to be honest  there is no longer major void to be filled in the area a poser/DAz males  with the possible exception of a weight mapped male figure
and apparently one is in the works for poser pro 2012

DAZ M4 has enough versatility and content support  for most peoples needs and of course on the DS only side genesis covers everything else.

Cheers

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I think the daz males are pretty boys that should be in some boy band and lack the mophs to make them more rugged. The SM guys are a little more rugged but lack morphs to make to make them pretty boys. So I guess they lack versatility. And content. I know WW can convet clothed but it doesn't do so hot converting textures.

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I use Poser 13 and win 10

I use a LOT of guys in my work.

With the exception of David3, Daz's males have always been overly muscular. To make them into believable "average" guys has always been a challenge. That is not to say that we don't need a muscle morph...we do... but I don't think a gym rat is what we need as a starting point. A Harrison Ford/Clint Eastwood build as the neutral point would be perfect in my book.

Secondly, well... let's get down to brass tacks: Genitals. A male figure needs to be... well.. MALE. And ALL of his boy parts need to pose smoothly. That part is tricky... there are times when it needs to be extremely flexible (I'd say 6 segments at a minimum!) and sometimes it needs to be... less flexible. The ability to pose this part should also be built in. Scaling for length and circumference would also be a plus.

Please, however, so NOT make him a male version of Antonia (for my part) in that you make him SO average that he has little character of his own. Also, a full morph set for him so we don't get twenty different sets to contend with.

In short, the functional equivilant of David 4 with morph++ would fill the bill for me. (Weight mapped, as long as I'm wishing!)

Responding to another couple of comments...

I've heard the criticism of all Daz character's that they are too "pretty." Well, let's put this in perspective: Take a look at any movie. The "average" people in most movies would make the "A" list in most general population groups. Most art tends to be idealized to one extent of the other. I have a number of quite average, even homely morphs for both M4 and V4 in my stable, but I don't use them very often. It's sort of like... um... why go with something hard on the eyes when you have something easier to look at? Were this not so, we'd have a lot more people like Michael Emerson as leads rather than Mathew Fox.

Again, I know I'm speaking for myself, but I think it's like with slutwear... the vendors make what people buy.

I don't mind a male character being handsome... even pretty... as long as the morphs exist to make him otherwise.

I go along with basicwiz, with the exception of the genitals.  Should be there, but erectile tissue olympics not required for my uses, I usually clothe them anyhow. 

A dynamic clothe suit would be nice, not a tux, already got one that I don't use.  Just a casual or business suit with a few variations possible.  Dynamic as that's my preference YMMV.

 

D.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

I agree. I've love a dynamic business suit!

10 000 years of art show that most popular subject is naked female characters. Even homosexual artists like Leonardo da Vinci portrayed women. Why do you expect then Poser pictures should be different.

A decent set of everyday poses instead of stripper or effemenate model ones.

All the best.

LROG

Who honors those we love for the very life we live?, Who sends monsters to kill us?, and at the same time sings that we will never die., Who teaches us whats real?, and how to laugh at lies?, Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?, Who chains us?, and Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You!, You have all the weapons you need., Now Fight!

**"I think the daz males are pretty boys that should be in some boy band and lack the mophs to make them more rugged"**

 

I Wouldnt call this a "pretty boy"

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

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"I think the daz males are pretty boys that should be in some boy band and lack the mophs to make them more rugged."

The only problem the DAZ males have are their comic book style default proportions because Poser (still) lacks proper single axis scaling.

Took me a lot of work to re-rig my 3rd Generation based figures to get more realistic proportions.

Other than that, it just depends on what you do with the mesh.

IMO, at least with the 3rd Generation DAZ mesh, there's absolutely no limit in the looks you can achieve.

 

And as for them being pretty....

BasicWiz, do you create your own morphs or draw from morph sets? 

 

It's a bit early now, but I may be looking for someone in the near future to help create morphs for the model I'm working on. 

 

From a technical standpoint, morphs can only do so much and are always limited by the mesh they're being applied to. It seems mostly that it is a Poser/Daz concept, as the more professional side of 3D usually does not rely on morphs to generate new characters but instead models them from scratch to be uniquely their own, with their own mesh and rig, relying on morphs only for blend shapes and motion (facial expressions, phonemes, muscle movement, etc).

So to that end, if you're starting with a model whose features are more feminine, (the unimesh), then you're never really going to get a truly masculine look from it before distorting the mesh to an unacceptable level, unless you increase the resolution of the mesh, and most poser figures are at a relatively low resolution compaired to what other applications usually use (not including video games). The same rules apply to creating a muscular morph from a much thinner base mesh - at least at the level of resolution that most poser figures are. Increasing the mesh density will definitely improve morphing capabilities, but it lowers your room for other scene content.      

 

 

Same mesh as above....

 

Of course Genesis solved all those scaling problems Poser still has, so what took me weeks and sometimes months with the 3rd (And 4th) Generation figures can now be done in minutes with just some dial spinning.

Personally, I'll stay with my 3rd gen based figures until Genesis is really fully implemented into Poser. I have too much time invested into them.

But my point is, you'd have a really, really hard time creating a better male figure than the 3rd, 4th and 5th (Genesis) DAZ males already are.

I think you'd be better of supporting them than trying to create your own mesh, unless you strictly do such a figure "for the honor" and expect zero commercial success.

lol, the only one who doesn't look like he used to be a girl is the big boy on the left, but still, nice examples JoePublic. 

I just sculpt what I see and as (almost) all my sculpts are based on real people, I guess you have to blame mother nature for that. ;-)

One more...

Its in the hips and the faces mostly, JoePublic. And you said yourself you had to re-rig them to get them to work properly. 

I'm not trying to criticize your personal work by any means, so don't take it that way. And I'm not directly bashing Daz or anyone else who has created models so far. 

But to state that it's unlikely anyone will come up with a better mesh than what Daz has come up with so far is laughable and defeatist. I see and work with far superior meshes every day. The only difference is that no one has bothered to bring a better mesh into Poser yet. 

Genesis will likely never be supported by Poser, as it functions on different technology than Poser currently has, or plans to support in the future, from what they've stated on the issue so far, and Daz has already stated they have no intention of developing a Poser-compatible version of Genesis. Whether or not that changes on either side is yet to be seen, but somehow I doubt it. It seems quite likely that the two entities have gone their separate ways. 

So does that mean that Poser is left to rely solely on old versions of Daz figures and whatever modifications its user community can come up with that make them function in future versions of Poser without violating copyrights? Surely there is room for new Poser-based models to be created that utilize the current abilities of Poser and are just as versatile as anything Daz ever did, if not moreso. 

And this is not supposed to be yet another thread about Daz vs Poser, so don't take it down that road. It's about the male figures and what they have available, or should have available, regardless of their creator. 

As someone who uses more men than women I'd say what's missing the most are a decent selection of good skin textures that aren't all commercial, aren't all pretty boys and aren't all high priced. Most of us are hobbiests. Especially those of us who do fan art, whether it be comic book or sci-fi or fantasy and as hobbiests, most don't want to spend $20+ for one skin texture.

Another reason males tend to suck is their default textures are too bland. More options in default textures would be nice.

Poser scaling works pretty well if figure has correct smooth zones. Apollo looks good as a preteen and old man.

http://carodan.blackraven3d.com/

Quote - BasicWiz, do you create your own morphs or draw from morph sets? 

 

I couldn't use a mesh creation program if my life depended on it. I depend on the dials and sometimes a bit of touch up with the Poser morph tool.

"... there still seems to be a strong underlying desire for a male that somehow has not yet been met by the majority of content creators and all the previous male figures that have come along"

Well, there could be some missing ingredient that everyone else has missed. I think it's more like David Beckham or cheerleaders aren't going to make professional socces madly popular in the US. IOW, the market's at its saturation point. I'm sure a figure with better this or that would be welcomed, but it would be possibly further fragmenting an already (relatively) small market. I say that not to be discouraging, but a lot of the gaps seem to be not a need for a new figure as much as support for the existing ones in terms of clothing, textures etc. I'd like to see more ethnic/racial diversity (this is true for the female figures as well). Once you go beyond Caucasian and Asian there's not much. Again, that's something that could be addressed to a large extent with greater support for the existing figures. Variety and improvements are always good though, and it's an area that could use a shakeup.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

The only things missing are Clothing, clothing clothing, clothing, and clothing.
The girls get it all, but males ????

Males are less popular.
New males ??? Do not know, but clothing, clothing, clothing.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

I use M3 and H3 constantly.

Didn't like M4 and only very rarely use him to fill armour to make it easier to pose - and then often stick M3's head on top. M4 always seems somehow squashy and unformed to me.

I haven't actually tried any of the Poser guys yet as I've only had Poser since PP2012, so of course I have no content for them to use anyway. Should give them a go though.

So far as what I need for male characters..... hmm.. I dunno. A weight mapped M3 maybe? ;)

 

Quote - The only things missing are Clothing, clothing clothing, clothing, and clothing.
The girls get it all, but males ????

Males are less popular.
New males ??? Do not know, but clothing, clothing, clothing.

In real world is the same. When I compare mine and my wife wardrobes...

Oh.. and content... always need more armour!

Despite pillaging my way through Xurge's store (hooray for Newsletter discounts) and converting the spoils to M3, I always need more armour and armour-type stuff!

Male characters are always a bit light on poses, expressions and suchlike. Always good to have some pre-made poses to start from. Most of the male stuff just looks like poses from clothing catalogues. Yeah, there are some, but nothing compared to the vast outpourings for V4 etc.

Quote - In real world is the same. When I compare mine and my wife wardrobes...

lol, well, that's not because there aren't as many fashion choices for you, just that you choose not to involve yourself with them. 

I know several guys who have more shoes and boots than all the females I know combined. And that's just shoes and boots. 

One guy in particular has over 300 pairs of boots - and yes, he wears every pair. He has a boot fetish. I don't judge. 

Quote - The only things missing are Clothing, clothing clothing, clothing, and clothing.
The girls get it all, but males ????

Males are less popular.
New males ??? Do not know, but clothing, clothing, clothing.

As in the real world, "Most" men aren't as flamboyant in their clothing needs so there's not a lot of differences you can make to pants, shirts & shorts other than adding pockets and zippers and buttons and using different materials.

Clothing business casual. Golf shirts with and without front pocket and the fornt pocket works. Dress pants with and without cuffs and the pockets work. Short and long  sleeve button down the front collared shirts that again you might wear to the office. Again with and without pockets and those with pockets they work. Sports coats that can double as a suit coat with the right texture. Go sit in a chain restruant at lunch and observe how the 25 plus working crowd is dressed.

Wet suit and skin diving gear

Oh and add a package morph to your clothes. I swear some of the pants in the market place are so tight in that area, it is a wonder any guy would be cuaght dead wearing them

All the above for M4

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

I say make products that appeals to male fantasy. Think of James Bond.

Violence, sex (or having an attractive body desirable for the opposite sex), cool gadgets, expensive possessions, power, money...

I also make use of male figures alot more than female. And I use poser for practical reasons not for emotional fulfillment.

Passion is anger and love combined. So if it looks angry, give it some love!

(Marty Robbins White sport coat and a pink carnation running through what's left of my mind)

  No self respecting young man of the late 50's - early 60's would be without his sport coat, slacks, and Florshiem loafers.  (Back when I could afford Florshiem and they weren't Chinese made.)  Turtle neck sweaters, or western style shirt, (Think M4 Cowboy) bolo ties.  Sometimes western style boots, but never tooled, just shined.

D.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

A highly detailed Firefighters outfit with all of the official gear.

 

 

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

Quote - As someone who uses more men than women I'd say what's missing the most are a decent selection of good skin textures that aren't all commercial, aren't all pretty boys and aren't all high priced. Most of us are hobbiests. Especially those of us who do fan art, whether it be comic book or sci-fi or fantasy and as hobbiests, most don't want to spend $20+ for one skin texture.

Another reason males tend to suck is their default textures are too bland. More options in default textures would be nice.

 

What he said.

I use Daz's 3rd/4th Gen figures along with the G2M from SmithMicro. I have found some nice texture sets for the G2 Males, & then I spin my own figures.

 

 

I would like to move on to Ryan, but I haven't found any developed characters for that mesh

Quote - > Quote - In real world is the same. When I compare mine and my wife wardrobes...

lol, well, that's not because there aren't as many fashion choices for you, just that you choose not to involve yourself with them. 

I know several guys who have more shoes and boots than all the females I know combined. And that's just shoes and boots. 

One guy in particular has over 300 pairs of boots - and yes, he wears every pair. He has a boot fetish. I don't judge. 

He must be a shoemaker ;) Anyway you know several guys who have a lot of shoes and plenty of girls who have a lot of ... everything.

Now seriously - Poser market is similar to real market. In every mall you can find few times more shops with clothes for women then for men. Clothes for men are more similar to each other then there is no purpose to make 5 different office suits. People do not use Poser tools. One uniform and few minutes in material room is enough to create 3 different uniforms.

Quote - So does that mean that Poser is left to rely solely on old versions of Daz figures and whatever modifications its user community can come up with that make them function in future versions of Poser without violating copyrights? Surely there is room for new Poser-based models to be created that utilize the current abilities of Poser and are just as versatile as anything Daz ever did, if not moreso. 

And this is not supposed to be yet another thread about Daz vs Poser, so don't take it down that road. It's about the male figures and what they have available, or should have available, regardless of their creator. 

No, and you are right. Someone needs to fill the void left by Daz.

Laurie

Quote - (Marty Robbins White sport coat and a pink carnation running through what's left of my mind)

  No self respecting young man of the late 50's - early 60's would be without his sport coat, slacks, and Florshiem loafers.  (Back when I could afford Florshiem and they weren't Chinese made.)  Turtle neck sweaters, or western style shirt, (Think M4 Cowboy) bolo ties.  Sometimes western style boots, but never tooled, just shined.

D.

You know, we definitely do not have enough period clothing for all eras, for either figure. 1920's (for both figures). 1890's, middle of the 19th century.....all the way back to medieval times and perhaps even beyond. Yes, the plethora of fantasy fetish wear really gets to me at times....lol. I don't do any fetish stuff, so that part's out for ppl like me. I actually like normal clothes (odd as that sounds for a Poser user). I'd also love, like I said, much much more period wear. We've never had a Gibson Girl. We had a zoot suit but it didn't really look all that authentic ;). No spats and the only button up boots we've had for the females are, again - the fetish sort of boot. Not my thing ;).

Laurie

The issue going forward on figure development both male and female is resources.

I'm going to use Antonia as my example because I feel she has been the most successful independently created figure in the last several years.

Antonia was a community creation. I have no idea how many people worked on her, but I know it was a sizable number. I'd really be interested in seeing the man-hour figure invested in her. I bet it's huge.

Let's look at what we got for all the time and effort:

1. We got a mesh that bends beautifully, but a shape that is (to put it kindly) quite plain. (I personally think she's butt-ugly out of the box, with a body only a mother could love, but that's just me.)

2. We have several morph sets, none of which is "official" and none of which matches the accuracy or versatility of Daz's morph++ for V4. In short, I can't make her into what I want.

3. We have very few available textures, and those that are available are quite plain.

4. We have only very limited vendor support. (see #2 above) I know... the knee-jerk answer is: "Make your own _________."

NOT an acceptable answer IF you want the character to have wide use and acceptance among any group other than the type person who lives in these forums. Most of us do not have the talent/ability/knowlege to "roll our own." Besides, that is not what I want to spend my "Poser" time doing. I'm an illustrator. I make tableaus. The fact that the marketplace exists and is the primary function of the Renderosity site supports the contention that the vast majority of users depend on the talent of the vendors to provide the raw materials for their renders.

Viewing the above, we've seen what the community is capable of doing on its own. While the results have shown great talent, they don't show commercial viability. My own opinion becomes "The next great figure will come from a commercial enterprise willing to put the combined manpower of multiple artists behind it, with the ability to create a complete, integrated product ready to go at the moment of release." There will also be at a minimum a starter support set of clothing, underwear, shoes, and hair (or fits). The figure must have out-of-the box attractiveness and at least two or three mats included (to appeal to the very large group of casual Poser users) and high accuracy and flexilibility (to appeal to the power users who worry about the details.)

Sound familiar?

It's the Daz model.

No, Daz is not the only company with the resources to do it. Smith Micro could, were they willing to put the manpower behind it. I'm not sure if Rendo or RDNA are large enough, but I suspect they are IF they see a chance of getting vendor and community support to bolster their investment in the figure itself. 

An individual COULD do this, but I doubt they could if they have a regular job to go to and eat up 8-10 hours of each day. Anton did it with Apollo (sort of.) I'm not saying the OP couldn't bring this off, but I suspect it would be a fulltime job, and by the time it was ready to go, Poser 10 would make it obsolete.

I return to my case: Some commercial entity with the bucks to put a couple fo people on the payroll would make the most sense. I just have no idea who it might be that is willing to make the investment.

"So does that mean that Poser is left to rely solely on old versions of Daz figures and whatever modifications its user community can come up with that make them function in future versions of Poser without violating copyrights?" That's pretty much the situation. Creating a figure that could rival Genesis would take a lot of time, talent and money. First you need access to a full body laser scanner to create some realistic human 3D shapes. No "eyeballing" or "tracing photographs" for Genesis. Then you have to translate that raw mesh into a topology that works inside Poser and on most peoples low end computers. I.e. you have to limit yourself to perhaps 70.000 to 100.000 polys yet have all the necessary edgelooping to depict anatomically correct musculature without elaborate displacement maps. Of course the mesh still has to bend well using Poser's render engine, so you need to exactly know the optimal placement and number for the edgeloops for the joints. Then UV-mapping. You need to know how to map to achieve the least texture stretching even if the mesh morphs from pre-teen to adult to alien life-form to fantasy monster. Then the morphs: First the necessary JCMs as even weightmapping is not able to create realistic joints on it's own. Then all the different human and non-human bodystyles. And don't forget the expressions. People in the Poserverse also expect a sh*tload of content right from the start, so you'd better have a small army of top end content creators eagerly waiting to support that new line of figures. Sorry if that sounds defaetist, but that's pretty much the current situation as I see it. By not supporting Genesis, Poser painted itself into a very dark corner, and no "3rd party" figure will be able to save the day unless that figure is every bit as good as Genesis is. And sorry, again, but after twelve years of seeing each and any of those "3rd party" figures failing completely to even put a tiny scratch into DAZ' bottom line, I don't think any individual can do that unless that individual is willing to pump SERIOUS money into that project. Poser is to 99% about the figures. Everything else is secondary. And DAZ was able to build a full fledged monopoly over the years and we all, and especially the owners of Poser, happily let that happen. Grassroots efforts like Antonia or a WM'd this or a WM'd that won't keep Poser afloat. If Poser wants to survive, something more professional has to happen. If you can do it, please and by all means, do it. But Poser and so called "professional" 3D apps are two completely different kind of animals. Don't think for a second that a successfull Poser figure could be made easily or would be cheap just because Poser is cheap and easy to learn. I'm modelling for Poser for twelve years now and I've seen hundreds of models that looked fantastic in MAX or other high end modellers but were completely unuseable in Poser. So in the end, whatever I wanted for Poser and what hadn't been done already by someone else for Poser, I had to build myself from scratch. The DAZ meshes, including Genesis, are far from perfect and I really don't feel much love for DAZ as a buisiness, but they have the experience and they have the support and they pretty much know what they are doing. I welcome any attempt to "challenge" them as I don't like monopolys, but I won't give give any praise or encouragement just for "effort". No cop-outs or cutting corners. Build a truly better mesh than DAZ can and I'll give you happily all my praise. But I don't think it'll be going to happen and because of that my outlook for Poser's future is quite bleak. As crappy and as buggy Studio 4 still is in some respects, and as great as Poser's SSS ond lights are now, if I hadn't had my own set of figures to work with, I would have dropped Poser like a hot potato the moment I've tested Genesis the first time. Sadly, people don't want to hear the truth. I predicted the big rift the moment I peeked into V4's magnet ridden cr2. But people kept their eyes firmly shut and rather wanted to believe that DAZ "never would let their most faithful customers down" Now they want to believe that Poser could survive without a set of professionally made figures. Good luck with that.

I think part of the problem is that we need to teach people to spin the dials but that hasn't really happened yet. People complain about the DAZ males being too pretty but you can spin the dials and change the face shape in a few minutes, same for the body (though you will have a harder time putting clothes on him). But the morphs and tools are there if people take the time to use them.

we all like something different....lol

most males are either way to muscle bound or girlly to me...

the only male i ever liked and wish for more stuff for was HIM by sixus1

the squareness to his features and the bit of muscle i find to fit best with my style.

its too bad there was never a ww file created for him or i would use him all the time.

 

www.bloodyrosesdesigns.com

 

http://www.aldaraproject.com/aldara/

http://www.dreamslayervisions.com

Well, maybe that it's hard to get a realistic looking male (like one of the Daz iterations) or a stylized male (like HIM) in one figure is what's missing. Actually that's always been my gripe. One size does not fit all. That's why I liked the Gen 3 figures. They didn't try to lump them all into one multipurpose figure. One figure can't be all things. Yeah, it's expensive and a real PITA to have to buy a separate wardrobe for each one, but that's what the converters are for. And now that the figures are weightmapped that part of it is somewhat easier, or so I'm led to believe.

Laurie

omg he shaves his pubes that looks wierd, anyway how about seeing actual body hair on a a figure that looks natural like arm face and leg hair done without the help of needing textures.

I use all the male figures I have, and I think I have all the available ones for Poser. The face is most important since I use the figures clothed. The face must be able to morph to represent a variety if ethnic types. For me, believeable African characters are important, and I need a good range of expression morphs. They don't have to be handsome.

 

Poser 11 Pro, Windows 10

Auxiliary Apps: Blender 2.79, Vue Complete 2016, Genetica 4 Pro, Gliftex 11 Pro, CorelDraw Suite X6, Comic Life 2, Project Dogwaffle Howler 8, Stitch Witch

I would say: check the galleries and the store:

Mec4D does some great guy models

Lundqvist does great male images, as does Roland58.

All the best.

- - - - - 

Usually I'm wrong. But to be effective and efficient, I don't need to be correct or accurate.

visit www.aRtBeeWeb.nl (works) or Missing Manuals (tutorials & reviews) - both need an update though

I agree with what BascWiz and JoePublic said. I think Laurie sums it up very well. You can have a family of figures. I don’t know much about the males but the female Generation 3 figures provided some compatibility in terms of textures and morphs, ditto Generation 4. The other alternative, truly separate figures is ideal in terms or versatility but it comes at the cost of separate wardrobes, morphs, converters etc. That means more expense, more files, more work, and more figures vying for a limited market. Despite its shortcomings and whether or not it succeeds, Genesis is a another vision. No matter which strategy one prefers, it does take money and a professional organization to have the best chance of it working long term.

There are certainly enough talented creators out there to do it. Some entity like Renderosity may have the financial resources – note learn from DinaV. Having a company with employees or contractors would ease the cat wrangling. I don’t count the (non Antonia) WM project only because it is building on the foundation DAZ created. Make sure that, as others have said, you have content ready to go; don’t run it up the flagpole and wait to see who salutes. Of course, Apollo is, by all accounts, a great figure, and IIRC had a fair amount of stuff early on and got some commercial support. Even doing everything right isn’t going to change the basic gender equation; but at least you have a fighting chance.

There’s a conflict between wanting variety and wanting support. The more unique figures there, the less support for each one. Yes, you can convert or tweak some things, but I still believe that each extra step sheds customers. I don’t know how many male figures the market can support – maybe no more than two or three with a reasonable amount of content. Even amongst Mike, David, Apollo and Hiro, people still feel a lack of content exists – and that’s given the generally smaller requirements of the male wardrobe. Put them all in a room and let them cut cards, play rock-paper-scissors or duke it out – crown whoever comes out king. The king gets all the clothes, hair, ethnic choices etc. The rest will just be naked White guys.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

All good points to consider. 

Overall, I think it is about quality over quantity in most regards. 

The Daz figures are higher quality than most of the others available, even if they are not as anatomically accurate as the others. The meshes are generally cleaner, uv maps easier to work with, and the morph combinations are much broader - all three aspects that most of the other available figures fail to provide. 

The one thing that has always bugged me about Daz figures is that in most cases, no matter where you are on the web, you can almost always tell if its Vicky or Mike being used. It goes beyond the joint bending issue that's always been a problem in both DS and Poser. The lack of realism I think is what stands out most. Other figures are more realistic in appearance and usually a bit more difficult to spot, but fail in the polishing, and thus fail in the vendor support. If a content artist has to contend with sloppy UV maps, or stray vertices and split seams that make morphing difficult without significant work-arounds, then the figure loses support from the vendor side. Without vendor support people aren't going to bother with it. Why spend the time to fight with the hassles of an unpolished base, when there's the Daz figures that work much better out of the box. 

There is no denying that the Daz figures are currently the best that is available. Any Poser/DS marketplace is proof of that. I just don't think it's the best that can be done by a long shot, even with Genesis in the picture. 

It also seems that most of the 3rd party figures that have come along, lose the support of their creators before they ever really get a chance to be recognized by the community. There's a lot more involved than just making the base figure and throwing it out there. Proper functionality is only part of the job and only gets it barely out the door. 

But then you have other artists who make their living producing several original figures on a regular basis, and while the artistic quality and funcionality may not be the greatest, they still manage to develop a following. If enough people like their style they can continue doing what they do. 

One of the things that has  put people off third party figures is there were at least two cases where there were copyright issues ie one where anton thought a figure's foot was cribbed from his apollo and a female figure from rdna that got pulled because she had vickie mesh in her.

 

M3 wasn't good because no matter how much you muscled him his wrists and and ankles always looked puny, and his face always looked like M3.

I like muscular characters the best.  With really good definition including the back.

I would buy a new muscular character if he looked good and was weightmapped.

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

Wm Brad .   

I'm not familiar with those particular instances, but I have seen cases where geometry hacking took place. It's a shame. But it's a risk anyone working in this setting is subject to. 

Is that why Anton stopped supporting Apollo? Did he stop supporting Apollo or is that mis info?

"she had vicky mesh in her" lol. That just sounds funny, like, "Eww! She's got vicky mesh!" 

"Is that gonna drip?"

edit* who is Brad?

No anton stopped supporting apollo because he was annoyed about something else.

The rdna girl who had vicky mesh was called Eva.

Yes I hope that isnt contagious.

Brad is a very nice figure that phantom started working on and posted some progress shots.  he was looking good but I think he may be on hold while they finish tony (antonia's male counterpart) and weightmapping M4 ie M4wm

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

"But then you have other artists who make their living producing several original figures on a regular basis..."

This is very true. 3DUniverse is a good example, though their figures are all toonish.

I'm not sure there's a good answer to the general situation. Genesis has potential but it needs to work equally well in DS and Poser. Beyond that, the market needs to grow. I think that Both Poser and DS are too involved to ever gain mass appeal. I'm not familiar with iClone to know if it is more of a casual solution. Something approaching 3D clipart with the ability to easily clone people from photos, make animated avatars, little cell phone movies, games etc. might appeal to a large number of people. I think that's where DAZ wants to go with their Gizmoz, Decimator etc. If there an app that appealed to more than artists and could use the same content, then there would probably be an explosion of stuff being created to meet the demand. It's happened before - desktop publishing went from professional to semi-pro to everyone creating flyers, cards etc. Maybe it will happen in this field as well but I've given up predicting that it will :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

What's missing in male figures?

Clothing that doesn't rely on M4 and M3's truly disastrous shoulder joints.

I have not seen a single conforming item for either male that does not have oversized balloon shoulders. It makes business jackets particularly ridiculous looking. I simply cannot stand to use any conforming items on these figures except for sleeveless shirts or armor.

Once the shoulders are fixed via morphs, though, dynamic clothing is fine. And there is one blazer/suit jacket and shirt for M4 for sale here. But more, many more would be welcome.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

"I have not seen a single conforming item for either male that does not have oversized balloon shoulders. It makes business jackets particularly ridiculous looking. I simply cannot stand to use any conforming items on these figures except for sleeveless shirts or armor."

You can easily fix shoulders by either using ColorCurvatour's MorphLoader script and a modeller of your choice, or Poser's built in MorphBrush.

Picture shows a modified M2 wearing some M3 clothing.

I don't render males a lot, but what I'm usually missing are skin textures for more rugged men.  Also for men who are in their 40's.  It's hard making a render of a man in his very sexy middle years when all of the character textures are for 20-something pretty boys.  The skin is just different.

Hair.  Again, too many pretty hairstyles.  Too much pomp and poof, and not enough rugged or every day.

Clothes.  So much is effeminate or something an average man wouldn't wear.  I want jeans that look comfortable and average, not skin tight and up to his rib cage.  I'd love more clothes that are good for post-apocalyptic wasteland images and biker gear like the guys wear on Sons of Anarchy, but that's just me.

lady-morana.deviantart.com

Hair! Yes, that's another one to go with good poses and expressions. All the short male hair I've bought hoping it'll look Ok has been pretty abysmal :(

Quote -  

You can easily fix shoulders by either using ColorCurvatour's MorphLoader script and a modeller of your choice, or Poser's built in MorphBrush.

On the fly morph fixes are fine for still images, but do little for animations. 

Even with weight mapping, conforming clothes rarely look natural. The only way to really get a natural look in loose fitted clothing, at least for animations, is to use dynamic clothing, or a combo of dynamic and conforming, depending on what type of garment it is and what its doing. 

However, conforming clothes artists could put a bit more effort creating morphs for still poses, especially those who include pose sets in their products. 

I'd imagine the average poser user finds dynamic clothing too much of a hassle, which is a big reason why so much is conforming and has that balloon, plastic look to it.

 

I see a lot of people complain that there aren't enough hair models available for M4, yet just about every style of hair you can think of is available for him. It takes some looking, and browsing other sites, but it's there. It's hard to make hair look masculine on a model that's too "pretty". 

Sigh... another pretty boy render! The hands are so delicate!

Quote - "I think the daz males are pretty boys that should be in some boy band and lack the mophs to make them more rugged"

 

I Wouldnt call this a "pretty boy"

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Lee Van Cleef?

 

Quote - And as for them being pretty....

 

"Lee Van Cleef?"

Yep.

And here are a few polygons more. :-)

 

BTW, a lot more "unprettyness" for the DAZ males can be found HERE:

http://www.sharecg.com/v/34481/browse/11/Poser/The-Many-Faces-of-Moggadeet

Or Buck Angel. 

(no offense to mr. angel)

What version of poser do you use Joe?

You know it's funny, I've made some great stuff/armor/outfits for guys through the years...and it just doesn't sell.

But make almost anything for a girl...bing, bing, bing...winner!

Comitted to excellence through art.

Yeah. 

I'm sure it has a lot to do with what it is though, and the demand for it. 

The male market is much more of a niche, but at the same time there are plenty of people who do work with males and need content. 

There are a lot of factors to consider and methods to generate more interest. I think the quality demand of male oriented content is also a lot higher than the female market, which would have a lot to do with it too.

 It just seems rather strange to me, as on the other side of CG, in character artist forums like zbc, cgsociety, conceptart, polycount, etc, you usually see a lot more male characters than female, or at least it is much more balanced.   

"What version of poser do you use Joe?"

PP 2012

 

Having fun with M3 and the Moggadeet heads. :-)

One more...

Quote - You know it's funny, I've made some great stuff/armor/outfits for guys through the years...and it just doesn't sell.

But make almost anything for a girl...bing, bing, bing...winner!

Poor Vicki, tons of clothes, shoes and hair to attract just about any male, yet not enough guys to go out with. Her dating life must suck and the reason nobody has ever called her Mrs. M4.  Sort of the reverse of China where the guys out number the girls by a  huge margin.

I do a lot of real life scenes and by Western standards that requires guys to go with the girls in the render. Hence my request elsewhere in this thread for more everyday clothes for M4. And please no more tank top t-shirts. The guys have enough of those already.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

I think the biggest share of Male renders is probably Comic Heros or Beefcake. That's my impression anyway.

Quote - Yeah. 

I'm sure it has a lot to do with what it is though, and the demand for it. 

The male market is much more of a niche, but at the same time there are plenty of people who do work with males and need content. 

There are a lot of factors to consider and methods to generate more interest. I think the quality demand of male oriented content is also a lot higher than the female market, which would have a lot to do with it too.

 It just seems rather strange to me, as on the other side of CG, in character artist forums like zbc, cgsociety, conceptart, polycount, etc, you usually see a lot more male characters than female, or at least it is much more balanced.   

 

Here's my take on it, it's MY opinion only, so please take it that way:

 There is a double standard in the Poser community and a general lack of effort and interest.  Female models are morphed to no end by vendors and community members, often resutling in entire product lines being created around the morphs. Why can't the same be done for the CURRENT batch of males? Why does the community seem to think that male models have to be spot on from the outset or they won't bother using/supporting/buying content for them?

 You all have seen Alyson, correct? The majority of you felt she wasn't particularly attractive despite the plethora of facial morphs she came with.  She was just assumed too ugly to make content/character morphs for. One artist comes along and challenges that idea and suddenly, Alsyon's not so bad anymore. SO WHY CAN'T WE DO THE SAME FOR ANY OF THE MALE CHARACTERS ALREADY ON THE MARKET? Simple. Vendor perception.  Vendors think that type of content won't sell. Users can't buy what vendors don't make and thus we're stuck in a cycle of "I don't want to take a risk". 

 The thing the vendor community doesn't seem to have a handle on is that people buy what you tell them to buy. Get enough folks in your corner saying how dope a male morph for Apollo is or how awesome a texture set for Ryan is, back it up with a render or two and you'll have your sales.  Just look at Anastasia and how word of mouth and a few renders was all it took to make Alyson, a character EVERYONE owns already and who has the most built in morphs of any character, cool to own. Now everybody's Anastasia crazy and that's due in no small part to one person taking a risk on a character nobody thought was popular. 

 So you want to know why there isn't more content out there for men - and judging by some of the content for women, quality isn't always important - it's totally because the vendors tell you it won't sell and they don't bother making the stuff. Self fulfilling prophecy that. There's a film quote that I'm going to paraphrase here:  "If you build it, they will come." If you don't, there's nothing for them to buy/make renders of. Who's to blame in that scenario? The user for not buying something that doesn't exist or the vendor for not making it? Yup.  So wake up folks. You want more males - well you already have a bunch - just learn to work with the ones you have and don't be afraid to take a risk on creating new stuff for them.

"It just seems rather strange to me, as on the other side of CG, in character artist forums like zbc, cgsociety, conceptart, polycount, etc, you usually see a lot more male characters than female, or at least it is much more balanced."

Well, to the extent that they're professionals, I imagine they work on what they're assigned. ArchViz, ads, films probably feature a greater number of males. Contrast that with casual or hobbyist users doing what they like, which for many (of both genders apparently) means predominantly female figures. After all the years that Poser has been around, I think that the gender ratio reflects something more fundamental than just a lack of enterprising vendors.

While there is probably some truth in the Field of Dreams theory, I think you can only drive the market so far. I just seriously doubt that many more people would render many more males if there were better male figures. 

There should be a ready made market amongst the folks who go gay themed art. I'd check out sites like maleposer and renderotica. You might get some ideas on what people would want in a new figure.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

There's some truth to that, lmckenzie, I think the user base is diverse but does skew slightly toward those who prefer female figures. That said, I still feel that the best way to deal with the problem of a lack of content (be it male, female, toon, alien, etc.) is to make the content that's lacking or find ways of making existing content more worthwhile.

 

In reference to the pro versus hobbyist market, there's also this to consider:  

 

Poser content creators have to make very general characters that can be used in any situation. Characters for film and games are usually very specific characters built for very specific situations. So that is something that many people both don't realize (as consumers) and don't want to deal with (as vendors).  

Joe has talent running out of his ears, very impressive...i would have guessed Eastwood... with the poncho and the ciggarillo...though i can see VanCleif also...the  point is moot , the talent is remarkable, keep pushing your limits and strive to better your personal best... there are those of us who need your inspiration and enthusiasm... dont feel unappreciated and fade back keep pushing ahead...

 whats needed?... maybe not your interest, but...decent textures for M4 that dont have burnt in details that dont line up with the mesh when parts are bent...such as the dark crease detail where the thigh meets the buttox , or the shadow detail above the kneecap, having these details in the bulge maps of the rigging instead would make more sense IMHO

:O)

Y'all have a great day.

Thanks JAFO, but the Eastwood and van Cleef characters were made by Arduino. I just tweaked them a little here and there.

BTW, he also made an Eli Wallach character to complete the trio:

http://www.arduino.net/Product/CowboyUgly/index.htm

(Link has nudity !)

 

Though I do all my body and head morphing myself, I haven't done a celebrity face morph in ages.

Too busy constantly improving the rigging of the characters I made, and there are already so many great celebrity morphs out there. :-)

Thanks Joe ill definately grab the good the bad and the ugly for my collection when i get my duckies lined up, for now i have exceeded my limits...im a big fan of those old spaghetti westerns never tire of watching them,...they dont make em like that anymore,... i still appreciate your tallents and efforts tho...

:O)

Y'all have a great day.

Quote -
Here's my take on it, it's MY opinion only, so please take it that way:

 There is a double standard in the Poser community and a general lack of effort and interest.  Female models are morphed to no end by vendors and community members, often resutling in entire product lines being created around the morphs. Why can't the same be done for the CURRENT batch of males? Why does the community seem to think that male models have to be spot on from the outset or they won't bother using/supporting/buying content for them?

 You all have seen Alyson, correct? The majority of you felt she wasn't particularly attractive despite the plethora of facial morphs she came with.  She was just assumed too ugly to make content/character morphs for. One artist comes along and challenges that idea and suddenly, Alsyon's not so bad anymore. SO WHY CAN'T WE DO THE SAME FOR ANY OF THE MALE CHARACTERS ALREADY ON THE MARKET? Simple. Vendor perception.  Vendors think that type of content won't sell. Users can't buy what vendors don't make and thus we're stuck in a cycle of "I don't want to take a risk". 

 The thing the vendor community doesn't seem to have a handle on is that people buy what you tell them to buy. Get enough folks in your corner saying how dope a male morph for Apollo is or how awesome a texture set for Ryan is, back it up with a render or two and you'll have your sales.  Just look at Anastasia and how word of mouth and a few renders was all it took to make Alyson, a character EVERYONE owns already and who has the most built in morphs of any character, cool to own. Now everybody's Anastasia crazy and that's due in no small part to one person taking a risk on a character nobody thought was popular. 

 So you want to know why there isn't more content out there for men - and judging by some of the content for women, quality isn't always important - it's totally because the vendors tell you it won't sell and they don't bother making the stuff. Self fulfilling prophecy that. There's a film quote that I'm going to paraphrase here:  "If you build it, they will come." If you don't, there's nothing for them to buy/make renders of. Who's to blame in that scenario? The user for not buying something that doesn't exist or the vendor for not making it? Yup.  So wake up folks. You want more males - well you already have a bunch - just learn to work with the ones you have and don't be afraid to take a risk on creating new stuff for them.

 

Pretty spot-on there. I've been thinking pretty much the same thing and I was playing with the idea of doing a custom sculpt for Ryan2, the way Blackhearted did for Alyson2.

However, there are drawbacks to that approach, which for me, makes it rather pointless, at least at this point, because I still wouldn't be able to turn it into the figure I'm going for. 

An entirely new sculpt for an existing figure still leaves you with a figure that has virtually no content to be used with, without modifications to existing content that most users just aren't going to bother with. The users who do modify existing content have said repeatedly that tools like WW don't always do that great a job with the fittings. 

So, a heavily modified existing figure, via the way of morphs, is really the same as having a new figure as content still has to be heavily modified or made again. 

Secondly, and more importantly, existing meshes can't be modified without violating Eulas. Morphs are great, but can only do so much. There comes a point where the mesh has to be recut, the cr2 has to be reworked, these are things that both Daz and S-M does not allow. The only time drastic changes like that are allowed for is when the original creator allows it.  I would love to go through and fix all the errors and bad geometry in the G2 models, or the P6 models, and make them so that they could be modified and turned into better characters. But I can't do that without permission from S-M. I even thought about using RTencoder, but Daz still doesn't allow for that, as I understand it, and RTencoder's website hasn't been updated since 2008. Maybe its been bought by someone else. Maybe its been abandoned by its creator. Regardless, if the existing figures can't be used with it any longer, due to eulas, it's pointless to go that route. 

I have a model that is about 90% complete in terms of sculpting. His feet and hands still need some work. From there I'll be building his topology, which will probably take the better part of a day. Once that is done I can begin rigging him. 

I'm thinking about creating a thread here for those who are interested in following his development. I figure it will help in generating interest in him. Some people don't like showing what they're working on, for various reasons, and prefer instead to just reveal it when its complete and ready to go. There are good and bad reasons for doing that. So I'm not sure at what point I should start showing him, but if no one knows he's there, then no one will be interested. Still, that is why I started this thread, to see what people are looking for in terms of content and functionality, in order to combine some of those ideas with the goals I already have for this figure. I do know that he will function at least a bit differently than what is currently available, and his eula will allow for other artists to create their own ideas for him. At least that is the goal. 

So... where are the sample pics?

Quote - Joe has talent running out of his ears, very impressive...i would have guessed Eastwood... with the poncho and the ciggarillo...though i can see VanCleif also...the  point is moot , the talent is remarkable, keep pushing your limits and strive to better your personal best... there are those of us who need your inspiration and enthusiasm... dont feel unappreciated and fade back keep pushing ahead...

Yes, Joe - I should clarify, the character sculpts you've shown here of your work are very good, so I apologize if it seems I've criticized them. It's not your work I find fault with, it's the models they're based on. 

Well there's something to be said about not revealing too early. Phantom3D showed us all Brad and even released a Beta version but has now shelved Brad to work in Antonia's counterpart Tony instead. This has not really been remarked upon negatively but speaking for myself, I was a bit miffed to hear it. I never brought it up til just now though but I'd guess that other Brad fans were just as tiffed to hear he had been shelved after getting us all worked up about how nice he looked.

Well, here's an idea:

If you're going to do something big to an existing figure or make a new figure, why not try and get vendors on board before release?

Laurie

Laurie:  - yes, I definitely would like to do that. At this point it's too early to really start talking to other vendors about it though, and since I've been away from the site for so long, no one remembers me anyway, or is familiar with any of my work, so I have to establish that too. But working with other interested vendors is definitely at the top of the to-do list. I just have to show them something they'd be interested in working on first :)

I have a character theme for Antonia I'm working on along side my male figure - they are unrelated, but the Antonia project is much more simple (well, if you call a texture set, custom morph, full outfit - including hair - and scene, simple, lol) - but it will help to showcase my style, and give people a better idea of what the guy will look like, at least in theory. There is nothing in my gallery that even remotely resembles what I do these days. I should update it, and delete all that crap to be honest. lol. But I kind of leave it there to remind myself of what never to do again. 

SteveJax - I have never seen Brad, but I've heard about him. Would be interesting to see what he looks like but I haven't run across any sample pics yet. I've seen Tony tho.

BasicWiz - I will. I've been tempted to post some face shots in my gallery, but not sure I want to just yet. I spent about 4 full days on his face sculpt alone, but there are still minor tweaks I want to do, mainly around the eyes and nostrils, and think it will be better to wait until his topology is done first. 

** sounds  good ExistentialDisorder whenever you are ready to reveal ill be watching im sure it will be well worth the wait, those little details make all the difference and are time well spent...**

**
:O)**

Y'all have a great day.

Thanks JAFO, I appreciate the interest and encouragement. 

I am big on tiny details and accuracy.

Attached Link: Flanked at Maidenhair Ridge

I use male figures all the time, but judging from the views in my gallery, the girls still garner all the attention.  For all the talk of "pretty boys" and muscle-bound M4 figures, I find M4 rather versatile, easy to pose and yes, attractive.  (Why would I want my characters to look anything OTHER than attractive?)  If I want a creepy-looking male in my render, I'll include Simon, who I think looks like a child-molester.  James has a rugged face, but his trapezus muscles are nothing short of ridiculous, and both of the P6 characters feature the ugliest hands in the world.

Having written this, I use the L75 Casual Set with various textures applied more frequently than any other clothing item for M4.  I find the US WWII soldier set works pretty well, too.

But my biggest beef with male clothing is that neckties look two dimensional.  I have yet to see a necktie with a knot that looks like someone actually tied it, and just as vexing is the fact that neckties in Poserdom are not posable!

I would like to see body hair in various shades and textures.  Asian men may be smooth skinned, but I'm certainly not, and my friends of African descent have chest and arm hair that looks very different than mine.  Jepe had a product for putting hair on M4, but it's actually a character conformed to another M4 figure, and that seems like a complete waste of system resources.  I've been hoping someone would figure out another way.

As far as ethnicity is concerned, there are some really good M4 figures of African descent out there.  I use a modified version of LK's Jomo frequently.  He's exceptionally well-made.

Oh, one more thing . . .

The K4 boy is alright, but I could REALLY use a good infant!

I too was disappointed that Brad was shelved.  Boy he looked good!

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

I just found an old thread at daz about Rikishi and have put all of him and his stuff in my cart.  I think a big character looks better with his originial clothing made for him instead of converted clothing.

Love esther

 

 

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

Quote - Oh, one more thing . . .

The K4 boy is alright, but I could REALLY use a good infant!

 

Daz put less effort and time on the K4 kids than any figure that they have made.

And it shows ,a real bad effort.    Imo.

well maybe weightmapping will resuscitate K4.

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

If someone manages to uncreepify the K4's I might use em ;). As it is tho, they're scary...lol.

Laurie

just a tad scary.

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

I got into using Poser originally in 1998 because I want to make illustrations for my vampire novel that had primarily male characters. Then I discovered the lack of clothing options which has continued to this day with current male Poser figures. I had to shelve my idea of illustrations. So, what happened? I ended up doing pinup art instead. Now a friend of mine is working on a novel and I was inspired again to try to do some character images and ran into the clothing problem. I had a little rant a few weeks ago because I needed a floor length coat that resembled a photo I had. The coat is described in the text of the novel and was inspired by that photo. Luckily Glitterati3D came to my rescue and modeled a coat that would work for the character and then put it into the free stuff area. But there is still a lot of clothing types that could be made for male characters (i.e. Fallout3 style, Post Apocalyptica type clothes). As my friend's tale stands at the moment there are three male characters and one female. I do use M4 now and when DAZ put out the fourth gen characters they got lazy on facial morphs so it's at least for me difficult to get the looks that I want for these males. Ah well, I keep looking and hoping when it comes to male oriented Poser items.

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

 

 

Quote - Well there's something to be said about not revealing too early. Phantom3D showed us all Brad and even released a Beta version but has now shelved Brad to work in Antonia's counterpart Tony instead. This has not really been remarked upon negatively but speaking for myself, I was a bit miffed to hear it. I never brought it up til just now though but I'd guess that other Brad fans were just as tiffed to hear he had been shelved after getting us all worked up about how nice he looked.

 

You have to keep in mind tony is a bit of a different project.  The Idea behind the Antonio project is to help develope people weightmapping skills as it goes.  As much as its a new figure it is equally a tutorial project on weightmapping from start to finish.  I'm not sure of the details but I think that antonio was better suited to this purpose for whatever reasons.  Perhaps it provided better learning opportunities or was a more straightforward figure to work with.  Phantom3D is very passionate about getting more people involved and skilled with posers newer features, and making sure poser users do not end up shackled to one company or one figure for their needs.  He has been extremely generous with his time and effort, putting off projects (like brad) that are near and dear to his heart in order to try to fill the needs that the community has been voicing.  

Poser Place is happy to welcome anyone who wants to pitch in and do something positive for poser, and there are lots of really talented folks willing to pitch in and help with projects if you have one in mind.  Heck if you were so inclined you could probably start a 'we want brad' chant... er.. I think... might have to check the rules on chanting... :P

Quote - I got into using Poser originally in 1998 because I want to make illustrations for my vampire novel that had primarily male characters.

That is exactly the reason I started using Poser in 2004/2005-ish. Same subject matter even. lol. 

I never did illustrate that novel. I went to computer animation school instead. The novel is still being written though, and at some point I hope to turn it into an animated series. 

Attached Link: Shadowclash: The Awakening

My vampire novel is self published on the web. Hey, and I even made it into a coffee table prop! See pic. I would still like to illustrate it, but at this point, I don't see that happening. I'm going to struggle enough with the character studies for my friend's novel.

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

 

 

Quote - > Quote - Well there's something to be said about not revealing too early. Phantom3D showed us all Brad and even released a Beta version but has now shelved Brad to work in Antonia's counterpart Tony instead. This has not really been remarked upon negatively but speaking for myself, I was a bit miffed to hear it. I never brought it up til just now though but I'd guess that other Brad fans were just as tiffed to hear he had been shelved after getting us all worked up about how nice he looked.

You have to keep in mind tony is a bit of a different project.  The Idea behind the Antonio project is to help develope people weightmapping skills as it goes.  As much as its a new figure it is equally a tutorial project on weightmapping from start to finish.  I'm not sure of the details but I think that antonio was better suited to this purpose for whatever reasons.

I understand the reasoning behind the decision. I was just giving it as an example of what can happen when you reveal too early. You get people's enthusiasum up and they get let down. It wasn't a knock on Phantom3D's commitment to the community. This is kinda why I never mentioned how I felt before now. I knew someone would think I was finding fault.

Quote - Hi to be honest  there is no longer major void to be filled in the area a poser/DAz males  with the possible exception of a weight mapped male figure
and apparently one is in the works for poser pro 2012

DAZ M4 has enough versatility and content support  for most peoples needs and of course on the DS only side genesis covers everything else.

Cheers

Voicing my disagreement.  David was the last decent male model to come out from DAZ and he is and has been undersupported.

M4 is fine, but in order to make him versatile requies a serious expenditure.  And even then, meh.

Versatility is key, I think.  Apollo aimed at versatility, overdid it and didn't quite make it at the same time.

I use almost exclusively male figures.  I use David more than anyone else, and a close second would have to be Seth (anyone remember him?).  The Aeon figures, for me, had a great start but never gathered any steam or support.  Genesis makes me think of Aeon, but I don't care for Genesis.

"

Versatility is key, I think.  Apollo aimed at versatility, overdid it and didn't quite make it at the same time."

Apollo always looked a bit puffy to me even when muscled up, andhe had that problem that when you scaled him you had to scale the clothes (might not be so much of a problem with pp2012 but I haven't tried him recently.)

I like M4 too but I don't feel he is everything.  that's why I've just popped rikishi into my cart, and why I would like to see more new male figures.

 

Love esther

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Quote - Versatility is key, I think.  Apollo aimed at versatility, overdid it and didn't quite make it at the same time.

I think Anton got the versatility concept with Apollo bang on in terms of functionality, with both morphs and scaling options. I particularly miss his scaling, and the 2-way morph dials (while not exclusive to Apollo) are not always incorporated into later figures. The specific downside for me was his mesh density and topology, affecting the quality and definition of those morphs and shapes.

I'd love an Apollo and his female counter-part with the same core functionality but higher density and defined mesh, rigged with 2012 weight mapping.

 

PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.

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Quote - I'd love an Apollo and his female counter-part with the same core functionality but higher density and defined mesh, rigged with 2012 weight mapping.

Ditto :)

Laurie