Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

http://graphics.stanford.edu/lab/soft/purgatory/prman/Toolkit/rnotes-3.8.html

Thank you Male_M3dia

Wonderful to meet at least one professional person amongst all the nay sayers. For me it is quite obvious that you have to work with both programs for a time. That doesn't mean that you have to learn ALL Daz. In fact the little you need to know (as a user not vendor) can be learned over the week-end.

Smith-Micro didn't have to buy the whole package. If they only had done subdivision it would had been tremendous useful and not only for Genesis. Well to have to subdivide in another program isn't too much trouble I guess no problem. It will only be my umpteen work around in my 20 years with computers. Or perhaps that was bragging?

?

"most people are dragged kicking and screaming into the future"

Subdivision would not have brought genesis to poser.

And for the workarounds you don't need the cr2 exporter - it just costs a lot of time and frustration

Point is that for the average user it is not really an option

20 years hmmmmm, I give you 40 years...

After getting perspective on things I discern that V4-WM and the upcoming M4-WM is a end-user tool and not for the cloth-creator.

Because for the user is it only a question of a few seconds and in most cases it works out of the box. But for the vendor to check everything TO BE SURE is a lengthy process that takes more time then modeling itself. Especially vexing as you already have done that once. You can be pretty sure most vendors will not take or should I say risk the trouble.

Quote - Smith-Micro didn't have to buy the whole package. If they only had done subdivision it would had been tremendous useful and not only for Genesis.

Genesis looks fine in Poser when rendered with smoothing. I think some issues will also be solved by Poser's SR-2.

Unfortunately, the development cycle of both Genesis and P9/PP2012 happened to coincide; if they had been a year out of step, it wouldn't have been a critical issue; it's hard to build in support for a product that's not yet finalized (and this goes both ways).

I think V4WM seems to bend better than Genesiswith the Female morph at 100% in Poser, particulary the thigh/hip joint, but I'll see if V5 is an improvement when I get my copy of 3D World.

As far as creating clothing for weightmapped figures goes, there are fewer JCMs, so it should be easier. In my experience with V4WM, adding the weight maps to standard V4 clothing with Poser Place Outfitter and tweaking any artifacts (there usually aren't any) with the Morph Brush has worked well. YMMV......

Phil Cooke sells a WW2 plugin for Genesis; has anyone tried it?

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“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
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After getting perspective on things I discern that V4-WM and the upcoming M4-WM is a end-user tool and not for the cloth-creator.

That is just your opinion, perhaps you need to see M4WM in action once the project team release it.

As M4WM has not been released, then how can you say it is not for cloth-creators?

All the best.

LROG

Who honors those we love for the very life we live?, Who sends monsters to kill us?, and at the same time sings that we will never die., Who teaches us whats real?, and how to laugh at lies?, Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?, Who chains us?, and Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You!, You have all the weapons you need., Now Fight!

Pardon my ignorance, but I fail to understand the fuzz about the subdivision. The Catmul-Clark subdivision does not use the normals, it does not care for curvature more than just one facet away. It does not perserve volume. It does not obey the laws of Physics of membranes. It is just an easy math process that can help to accomodate gross geometry variations. It is popular in graphical applications, but it is a cheapy method that has no physical background.

Geometry definition is made trough vertices. Additional facets generated from the available vertices do not add any detail. They just interpolate and blur existing definition.

With smoothing turned on for the existing compatible figures (V4 or Antonia) I do do not see vertex edges in my Poser Renders, even when they are in close detail. Yet, I hear morph developers complain the resolution is marginal if you want to add that level of detail that is visible in close-up shots.

A drawback of weight mapping is that you need to give information on the amount of bending for every vertex in the bend area. Consequently, if you reduce the number of vertices in a model, you need to store less weightmap information and preview generation could be faster. This is an advantage if the graphics card in the system is low-spec, or if the system has low memory. At render time, the additional work for the subdivision has to be done, and in the end the number of facets for rendering need not be different.

My conclusion is that I do not need subdivision for the modern figures. If I need anything on geometry it is simplification. If an image shows 10 figures none of them will be close enough to see any detail. Facets will be on pixel level. Geometry definition on a level suitable for close-up for all of them is a waste. We had V3-RR, and the Poser 5 and 6 figures had low-res versions. Can I have them also for the new figures, pleez?

Quote - If they only had done subdivision it would had been tremendous useful and not only for Genesis.

I have to disagree with this.

On a CPU, smoothing is slower than using subdivision.

On a GPU, smoothing blows the doors off of the subdivision route. Even down to low levels like .1 pixel sampling. Smoothing can be done in parallel on a GPU now. My workstation has plenty of CPU pipelines (24), and 3200 GPU pipelines.... No comparison there. The GPUs stomp the processors if the program can use them. A cheap video card has hundreds of piplines as well. There are memory issues with GPU stuff, but most modern video cards have more than enough memory now.

Subdivision is a wasted step if you plan on using the GPU in the future with a render engine. GPUs handle tessilation/smoothing very well, and both are user (developer) programable for joints, distance mapping, etc. The future if 3D and rendering is in the GPU, not the CPU. When the truly parallel video cards hit the market, subdivision will hit the back burner again for a while. I doubt it will go away, but it will see less use for a while.

Smoothing is supported in tons of render engines, newer video cards are optimized for it as well. It is supported in 3Delight Pro as well, but not in the Daz Studio version of the render engine. (as far as I can tell anyway) Not sure why, might be a licensing thing.

Genesis is a neat idea and has potential. But it is unsupported in just about everything outside of Daz Studio. If you want to use Genesis, use it in DS. Thats what it was designed to be used in, and you loose to much to really warrant porting it to Poser for much. There are acceptions, such as the fore mentioned use of the Poser cloth room, etc.

You cant beat the price of DS either, considering they gave it away.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

The main problem with smoothing as implemented in Poser is that it is not geometry based, so any other processes that rely on geometry don't work properly or look right. CC subd creates the geometry "on the fly" - it will have the same advantages in GPU rendering as it does in CPU rendering. It's also not just simple tesselation, conceptually for mental visualization, think of it more as a tension spline interpolation of the mesh surface in multiple directions (yes, I know this isn't mathmatically how it is handled, but the visual results are similar - though tension splining would result in less defined details).

Anyone who has done modeling using a lowres base mesh with "smoothing" turned on will understand the advantages of dynamic subdivision for modeling. Without CC subd, all of the 3D cgi block busters we have all seen would have taken much much longer to produce. Increased verticies means increased production time, not only the time to render, but more importantly in the time invested in rigging, creating morphs, and animating the figures.

CC subd has been as standard in the 3D industry for many many years. In fact, people on this forum began requesting that it be integrated into Poser back at P4. Posers curent method for smothing figures needs to be improved, nothing new or different there. CC subd is a proven method used in many applications already. SM doesn't have to use it, there are other algorithms that work well also, but if they want to move forward and provide us with better tools that are used in the "pro" apps, it does need to happen.

Just my 2 cents, worth about .002 cents with inflation.

__________________________________________________________

My Rendo Gallery ........ My DAZ3D Gallery ........... My DA Gallery ......

Quote - > Quote - If they only had done subdivision it would had been tremendous useful and not only for Genesis.

I have to disagree with this.

On a CPU, smoothing is slower than using subdivision.

On a GPU, smoothing blows the doors off of the subdivision route. Even down to low levels like .1 pixel sampling. Smoothing can be done in parallel on a GPU now. ...

Sounds interesting. Do you have any references for this?

Quote - ...Smoothing is supported in tons of render engines, newer video cards are optimized for it as well. It is supported in 3Delight Pro as well, but not in the Daz Studio version of the render engine. (as far as I can tell anyway) Not sure why, might be a licensing thing.

How do you enable it in 3delight?

And how do you enable it in Vue?

?

Many production companies use smoothing engines instead of subD'ing it to death.

Sud D requires far more calculations than smoothing does, making it slower. It is slower on a CPU and GPU. More information and calculations equals slower, there is no way around that.

Sud D changes all the morphs, the UV's etc. All of that has to be calculated and inflates the sizes of the information sent to the render engine. Smoothing does not modify the morphs, UVs etc, and is all handled by the render engine on a per pixel basis.

I also fail to see how the smoothing is not based off of the geometry. How do you think in determines the curve of the smooth?

Smoothing is a spatial index that is determined from the wireframe information. Different engines use different methods to do this, but all of them are based off of the geometry.

Renderman Pro Server is based of Reyes smoothing, guess they need to scrap that and switch to SubD so movies take a few more years to render, instead of 3 months....

Maybe Houdini should scrap Mantra as well, it is Reyes based as well.

Seems odd that the top of the line packages used in production everyday would use smoothing instead of SubD, if SubD was better....

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

I go to bed. I will be interesting tomorrow to read all the good reasons why Poser don't have any of the features of "the software of the year".

In Swedish we call it "Högt hänger dom och sura är dom" be free to use translation of the proverb on Wikipage,
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A4ven_och_druvorna

nighty night

Quote - Sounds interesting. Do you have any references for this?

Yes, I have some info on it, on various hardware. Some of it is addressed in one of the Open CL programming guides. There is some info on it on AMDs site as well.

AMD has tons of info here: http://developer.amd.com/documentation/articles/Pages/default.aspx#opt

Quote - How do you enable it in 3delight?

If you have the full version of 3Delight Pro, you can not really turn it off. Thats how the default engine works. It is a Reyes based, Renderman compliant render engine.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

Actually, Catmull-Clark subdivision surfaces have been supported in Pixar Renderman since 1998. See the link below for the specific reference, and if you browse down the page , there is quite a bit of information on the specific advantages and instances where it can be advantageous to use.

Keep in mind, there are several variants of Renderman out in the wild. The one used by Pixar, Wetta, and several others is the Pixar variant - Pixar Renderman or "PRman"

"I also fail to see how the smoothing is not based off of the geometry. How do you think in determines the curve of the smooth?"

I didn't say smooting in Poser wasn't based on geometry, of course it's "based" on geometry. But it doesn't create geometry, it is a shader effect that gives the appearance of additional geometry. It can work well in many cases, but often this phantom geometry does not show up in shadows, and can cause undesired visual results when other objects intereract with the surface of the phantom geometry.

I find it hard to understand why people would not welcome CC subd, or a similar technology in Poser? Making morphs is actually easier with fewer polys to push and pull (note the discussion in the link above). Why do Maya, 3DS, Cinema 4D, Lightwave, Modo, Zbrush, Blender, etc., etc. all have a big investment in subd if it's not valuable? But, maybe I'm just lazy.

If you don't like cc subd, don't want cc subd in Poser, thats fine with me. I just thought I'd point out that it is an industry standard, and is a very valuable tool to have in your tool box. I'd like to have it, but maybe I'm just not as well versed in 3D as others here who don't want it in Poser.

__________________________________________________________

My Rendo Gallery ........ My DAZ3D Gallery ........... My DA Gallery ......

Quote - This pretty much explains why I said not to bother. Until there something that easy to export, the steps are clear and the results are worth the effort (resolution, clothing), you're better off not going through the trouble. And it's not even finished and probably won't be for the forseeable future.

Sound advice regarding Genesis, and pretty much my understanding of the situation. Kudos to those who are getting some fun or practical use out of the thing, but for me... why bother.

How hard is it to understand that Catmull Clark SubD does NOT add detail to a mesh.

Picture shows two times M2. Left is the HiRes version with 34.000 polys. Right is the LoRes version with 21.000 polys.

Which would you rather use ?

Stop worrying about "Industry Standards"

We don't make feature films in Poser or need a minimum frame rate for a game.

We render detailed stills on low end computers so why should we adhere to "Industry Standards" ?

As much as I like the Genesis concept, but basing it on a SubD'd LoRes mesh that requires a smoothing algorithm was not the right decision.

BTW, Genesis has 19.000 polys.

2000 less than M2 LoRes.

The same as the P4 "Dork".

You really want to go back to the Poser 4 days ?

And this is the smoothness and mesh detail you get from a 75.000 poly mesh, which, for the last couple of years, is the "Poser Standard".

Quote - I find it hard to understand why people would not welcome CC subd, or a similar technology in Poser?

It is not that I would not be welcome it, LOL! Any tool is welcome. If Poser were a geometry building tool this, or something like it, would be indispensible, and Maya, 3DS and the others have rightfully invested. When developing you start rough, and then need a method increase the grid density where you need it for definition or to add more detail. Poser however is not a geometry building tool and it does not pretend to be. For the function it does perform: combine, bend and display geometry definitions built elsewhere, other priorities prevail. A mesh densification method may come in handy in some cases for doing touch-up, but if there is a serious issue to be solved, you better call in the real stuff right away.

Quote - Making morphs is actually easier with fewer polys to push and pull.

For morphs affecting a large area there are magnets, that work irrespective of the number of vertices. More vertices give more control. > Quote - (note the discussion in the link above).

If you refer to the discussion under 'Subdivision Surfaces': As far as I can see that refers to the grid of attraction points of a splined surface, not to vertices actually defining the surface as we use them in Poser.

@Joepublic.

What is your point?
I see your render examples.
But I like to render humans. Normal human figures that is.
Not 1 in a 10.000 looks like what you show.
To build "humans" you need around 6000 to 8000 Poly's.

Take a look at this example at 6.400 poly's.
Look at the multiple promo pictures.

They clearly show that:

Poly distribution is important; NOT Poly count, but Poly distribution.
Show what Smoothing does
Show that texture is far more important then number of Poly's to get a result.

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/536626

i add a screengrab from the above.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

**"We don't make feature films in Poser or need a minimum frame rate for a game."**

Perhaps not But some people Do use poser for animation So using a Low res mesh that can be SuBdivided to look better at render time has advantages.( see attached pic of actual,functional poser model with CCsubD modifier in C4D)

"We render detailed stills on low end computers so why should we adhere to "Industry Standards" ?"

Funny "we" seem to care about "industry standards"
When it comes to indirect lighting practices and the node based
approach to building shaders.. or do you still render everything in an older poser version using the P4 engine
with 800x800 jpeg texture maps??

"As much as I like the Genesis concept, but basing it on a SubD'd LoRes mesh that requires a smoothing algorithm was not the right decision."

Explain how the implementation CC SubD has Hindered the actual functionality of genesis within Daz Studio??.

Cheers

Quote - Thank you Male_M3dia

Wonderful to meet at least one professional person amongst all the nay sayers. For me it is quite obvious that you have to work with both programs for a time. That doesn't mean that you have to learn ALL Daz. In fact the little you need to know (as a user not vendor) can be learned over the week-end.

Smith-Micro didn't have to buy the whole package. If they only had done subdivision it would had been tremendous useful and not only for Genesis. Well to have to subdivide in another program isn't too much trouble I guess no problem. It will only be my umpteen work around in my 20 years with computers. Or perhaps that was bragging?

?

"most people are dragged kicking and screaming into the future"

No one needs to work with both programs for any period of time. That's like saying you have to drink Coke & Pepsi until they unite their flavors. For whatever reason, Daz chose to make Genesis Daz Studio ONLY. That doesn't mean that the Poser community has to jump through hoops to get her to work in Poser.

If it's weight mapping people are after, the Poser community has V4WM and in a while M4WM. Poser users have the choice of using the majority of their legacy V4 content with V4WM in Poser. Other legacy WM figures will be added in the future.

By the community.

This is something content makers should consider.

You can see from the posts above that the likelihood of Genesis being a viable figure for Poser in the near future are slim to none and, quite frankly, I don't think the Poser community cares. In general, I don't think people like it when someone says 'you have to use this' or 'you have to do that' and saying 'nay' to that doesn't make you a 'nay sayer' ;)

Plus, the only reason people have to use Genesis in Poser is to be able to buy (and convert) all new morph packages, character mats and clothing whereas the reason for using V4WM and the Outfitter is to be able to use all your legacy content with weight mapping with no extra cost. This could also be reason why new V4 content is still in great majority over Genesis content.

You can't dictate to people what they should buy or use. You have to offer them something they are interested in and right now the majority of the Poser community doesn't seem to be interested in Genesis.

Vestmann's Gallery

Quote - "We don't make feature films in Poser or need a minimum frame rate for a game."

Perhaps not But some people Do use poser for animation So using a Low res mesh that can be SuBdivided to look better at render time has advantages.( see attached pic of actual,functional poser model with CCsubD modifier in C4D)

"We render detailed stills on low end computers so why should we adhere to "Industry Standards" ?"

Funny "we" seem to care about "industry standards"
When it comes to indirect lighting practices and the node based
approach to building shaders.. or do you still render everything in an older poser version using the P4 engine
with 800x800 jpeg texture maps??

"As much as I like the Genesis concept, but basing it on a SubD'd LoRes mesh that requires a smoothing algorithm was not the right decision."

Explain how the implementation CC SubD has Hindered the actual functionality of genesis within Daz Studio??.

Cheers

+1

For the "we" that want ultra high res meshes (that aren't resource friendly on our low end computers) for their work with Poser, then Poser is perfect as is. For this portion of the user base I would guess that no furter improvement in geometry handling in Poser is wanted or needed, correct?

For others that might like to use Poser for animating, or would prefer a lower poly figure that would be easy on our system resources during set up, then use subd augmented by displacement/normal maps at render time, better geometry handling and subd capability would be very nice.

My personal preference with regard to Genesis in Poser is I would rather have the ability to use the native resolution Genesis figure, with CC subd in Poser. I already have extremely high res figures that work well in Poser (V4, M4), I really have no desire to have an even higher resolution figure. But that's just me, your milage may vary significanly.

__________________________________________________________

My Rendo Gallery ........ My DAZ3D Gallery ........... My DA Gallery ......

Correct vestmanm

First Daz pushed us all into the DS4/Genething.
And when that did not happen?

They put DS4 out for free.

I will wait till next month.

From April 1st, DAZ will start paying us, if we please want to use the DS4/Genething.

hA_HA_HA_? Now THAT would be Game Changing :-)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - Renderman Pro Server is based of Reyes smoothing, guess they need to scrap that and switch to SubD so movies take a few more years to render, instead of 3 months....

Maybe Houdini should scrap Mantra as well, it is Reyes based as well.

Seems odd that the top of the line packages used in production everyday would use smoothing instead of SubD, if SubD was better....

Gee, Poser Firefly happens to Reyes based too...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Come on, Wolf and Vilters.

How many people in the Poserverse use Poser to create actual animations ? Two ? Three ?

DAZ always offered LoRes versions of their figures for animation or background use.

But 99.99% of Poser users make stills.

And 99.99% of those stills are male and female cheesecake.

Those people want details and they want smoothness, and the easiest way to achieve this is a standard resolution mesh.

You can put a standard resolution mesh into any modeller and modify it. Heck, you can even modify it inside Poser using magnets and the morphbrush.

A low resolution mesh like Genesis needs elaborate displacement maps to achieve the same detail quality as a standard resolution mesh.

How many "hobby merchants" here have ZBrush or something similar and are able to create anatomically correct professional quality displacement maps ?

And you do know that displacement maps strong enough to add a decent level of detail to a low res mesh will mess with the joints ?

And that SubD creates vertices everywhere, even in places they are not really needed ?

And that there really is no more performance gap between a 20.000 and 70.000 poly mesh ?

And that displacement maps come with a huge performance penalty ?

Give me the ability to "see" those virtual vertices SubD creates in OpenGL and to directly manipulate them in Poser and then we can talk again.

But until then, nope, CC SubD is not the "better" or "more modern" way of handling meshes as some would like to suggest.

DAZ went that route because they hope to tap into the professional game and app market.

It might be needed for professional Studio's and for lazy modellers who want to quickly churn out new models, but it's not a proper substitute for real polygons.

i like Genesis, I even think Poser really needs Genesis to stay afloat.

But once it's (hopefully) fully implemented, the first thing I'm going to do with it is to hack it's cr2 and to create a proper high resolution version.

"Explain how the implementation CC SubD has Hindered the actual functionality of genesis within Daz Studio??."

This is a smoothed Poser render as I'm too lazy to re-install DS4 just for a single pic.

But the result is pretty much the same.

You ask how SubD has hindered Genesis.

Find her/his shoulderblades and I tell you.

Oh, wait, poor thing hasn't got any !

Guess we'll never know then. ;-)

And here's the Poser 4 DORK, same polygon count as Genesis.

Oh, look: Shoulderblades !

And a Spine !

Looks like optimizing Genesis' mesh for Catmull Clark SubD made it even worse than a Poser 4 mesh.

Who would have thunk that ?

> Quote - "Explain how the implementation CC SubD has Hindered the actual functionality of genesis within Daz Studio??." > > This is a smoothed Poser render as I'm too lazy to re-install DS4 just for a single pic. > > But the result is pretty much the same. > > You ask how SubD has hindered Genesis. > > Find her/his shoulderblades and I tell you. > > Oh, wait, poor thing hasn't got any ! > > Guess we'll never know then. ;-)

To spare you the indignity, here she is in Studio 4. Catmull-Clark subdivision has not made the shoulder blades appear...

EDIT; I need to install Studio on a different machine; it crashes my video driver and I have to reboot to get acceleration back... :sad:

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

**"Oh, wait, poor thing hasn't got any !** **Guess we'll never know then. ;-)"**

A bit of a straw man Argument Comparison
Dont expect me to Defend the appearance of the default "ghola" that is genesis out of the box you seem to want to pretend that that shapeless starter clone is your only option with genesis

Now go and add your eight trillion polygons to Dork or any Gen 3/4 figure and make him look&Scale like this IN POSER and then we can talk.

Cheers

I dunno, this is Genesis (morphed - not the default figure), looks like she has a spine and shoulder blades to me :) She even has the dimples adove her bum, and some tendon definition behind the knee. Looks OK to me, but that's just my opinion :)

Got to say though, the shoulder blade area on dork looks a bit .... well ...... odd to me. Is that the default texture and shape, or did you dial some morphs in or use another texture. I don't remember him being quite that muscular, but can't say I ever payed any attention to him either.

__________________________________________________________

My Rendo Gallery ........ My DAZ3D Gallery ........... My DA Gallery ......

I'm not argueing that Genesis bends and scales exceptionally.

But you can implement those features (Weightmapping and animated joint centers) just as easily on a standard resolution figure.

The morph above is the result of some very talented displacement mapping work, but not a "feature" only Genesis has.

With a good displacement map, I can make any mesh look like this.

But how many people can create such a map ? As opposed to how many people can "do stuff" with a standard res mesh ?

The problem is, Genesis needs those maps to look good. So you are dependend now on "professional artists" to create those maps for you.

Do we want that ?

Even less "amateur friendlyness" and more dependancy on a select few "content professionals" ?

Let Smith Micro implement SubD if they find a few minutes time between fixing the scaling and adding caustics and other stuff that is much more urgently needed.

I'm not against it.

I'm just saying we really don't need it that urgently as DAZ want us to believe.

In any case, I'll stick with 40.000 to 70.000 poly meshes until Genesis' Subd'd lo res mesh is as easily hackable as the currentmeshes are.

There's only one substitute for polygons: More polygons !

:-)

DustRider, please post an untextured render.

Then you'll see that the "details" you see are either simply painted on or at best just a displacement map.

Genesis has a very simplistic mesh topology, as you can easily see on the attached picture.

i like Genesis, I even think Poser really needs Genesis to stay afloat.

Not really, DAZ may need Poser users to spend money at their site, but that won't work with those that don't want to use Genesis.

The OP has had the answer to their question and was happy with that answer.

Do we really need another Genesis v Poser debate again.

Those that want to use Studio, use it.

Those that want to use Poser, use it.

Those that want to use both, use them.

All the best.

LROG

Who honors those we love for the very life we live?, Who sends monsters to kill us?, and at the same time sings that we will never die., Who teaches us whats real?, and how to laugh at lies?, Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?, Who chains us?, and Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You!, You have all the weapons you need., Now Fight!

I could have sworn this was the "Poser" forum. If you wish to talk about Genesis please take it to the Daz forum.

The Poser vs Genesis is getting old.

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

I could have sworn this was the "Poser" forum. If you wish to talk about Genesis please take it to the Daz forum.

At last some sense and "If Only"!!!!

All the best.

LROG

Who honors those we love for the very life we live?, Who sends monsters to kill us?, and at the same time sings that we will never die., Who teaches us whats real?, and how to laugh at lies?, Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?, Who chains us?, and Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You!, You have all the weapons you need., Now Fight!

Quote - DustRider, please post an untextured render.

Then you'll see that the "details" you see are either simply painted on or at best just a displacement map.

Genesis has a very simplistic mesh topology, as you can easily see on the attached picture.

Sorry, can't right now, will probably have to wait until tomorrow evening :(

I can tell you though that this is my render, with my own texture map shaders, and a custom genome morph project/character done by me with a combination of V5 at full strength, a few other full body morph "characters", several individual morph enahancments, and some muscle and fitness morphs thrown in for fun. The detail you see is not a displacement map (I didn't use one). I'll have to double check on the back of the knee, there may be a bit of enhancement from the texture map, but the spine, shoulder blades, and dimples are all geometry based - I know because I dialed them in :)

If you would like to see what her muscle morphs do for the front side, take a quick look in my gallery here and you can see what she looks like rendered straight DS4/3Delight, and in the Carrara 8.5 beta. Again, the morph details in these images are geometry based as no displacement maps were used in any of my renders of this character.

Sorry - no Poser renders, I just got my upgrade to PP2012 a couple of days ago. Besides it sounds like it might be more work than its worth right now.

Oh .... I forgot on my last post to put in the disclaimer that the image was done in DS4 and rendered in Lux via Reality with a single mesh light (my third image with Lux) - not in Poser :(

__________________________________________________________

My Rendo Gallery ........ My DAZ3D Gallery ........... My DA Gallery ......

Well, it's kinda hard to not talk about Genesis in a thread titled "Subject: Genesis in Poser Pro 2012?", don't ya think ?

Sorry, but as long as there is no viable alternative, this thing simply won't go away.

I somehow doubt that the majority of Poser users can be kept happy with last generations figures or grassroots amateur contraptions.

We need either Genesis or a brand new set of professionally made figures for Poser, and we need them fast before people come to their senses and realize how much they actually miss out.

Don't think for a minute I'm happy about it, but this market is almost completely driven by the latest greatest "IT-Girl" and her clothes.

And the current "IT-Girl" is Genesis and I see nothing on the horizon that could change that anytime soon.

@DustRider: Nice work. No, please don't bother, I happily take your word.

Again, I'm definitely not against Genesis. On the contratry.

I just think that a few thousand (real) polygons more won't do no harm.

:-)

BTW, that was default DORK, but using DPHoadleys remapped UV set to use a M3 texture.

He has a very detailed mesh for his polycount and I guess Poser's SSS emphasized the muscularity.

Quote - I somehow doubt that the majority of Poser users can be kept happy with last generations figures or grassroots amateur contraptions.

Keep in mind that Poser started out as a "grassroots amateur contraption"...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Quote - ...grassroots amateur contraptions....

Wow, I am now picturing Antonia as some kind of surreal Rube Goldberg-looking device, all superfluous levers and pulleys and things from the "Mouse Trap" game. :lol: Which is kind of cool, really. :unsure:

===========================sigline======================================================

Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.

Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.

"I could have sworn this was the "Poser" forum. If you wish to talk about Genesis please take it to the Daz forum.

The Poser vs Genesis is getting old."

The Poser vs Genesis debate is interesting and important, you learn a lot about an issue that might affect our whole lives. But of course the overeager moderator doesn't like any debate whatsoever. It really is too sad. We need an new forum that belongs to ourselves.

Quote - > Quote - ...grassroots amateur contraptions....

Wow, I am now picturing Antonia as some kind of surreal Rube Goldberg-looking device, all superfluous levers and pulleys and things from the "Mouse Trap" game. :lol: Which is kind of cool, really. :unsure:

You know, Cage, I've never looked inside.... :scared:

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Quote - You know, Cage, I've never looked inside....

:lol:

Check out PhilC's Gladys Emmanuel freebie. :lol:

===========================sigline======================================================

Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.

Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.

The Poser vs Genesis debate is interesting and important, you learn a lot about an issue that might affect our whole lives. But of course the overeager moderator doesn't like any debate whatsoever. It really is too sad. We need an new forum that belongs to ourselves.

Perhaps you would like to pay for some domain, set up all the forum files, do the moderation etc. Then you can discuss Genesis to your hearts content.

The original question by the OP has been answered, they have been happy with the replies and anything now, including my responses are not required.

All the best.

LROG

Who honors those we love for the very life we live?, Who sends monsters to kill us?, and at the same time sings that we will never die., Who teaches us whats real?, and how to laugh at lies?, Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?, Who chains us?, and Who holds the key that can set us free... It's You!, You have all the weapons you need., Now Fight!

Quote - "I could have sworn this was the "Poser" forum. If you wish to talk about Genesis please take it to the Daz forum.

The Poser vs Genesis is getting old."

The Poser vs Genesis debate is interesting and important, you learn a lot about an issue that might affect our whole lives. But of course the overeager moderator doesn't like any debate whatsoever. It really is too sad. We need an new forum that belongs to ourselves.

Thats funny. It seems I have let this go on for quite sometime. It seems that most Daz related threads are not able to be discussed in this forum because of.........the forum members themselves. I'd look into the history of Daz related threads before making such a comment. :)

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

"I could have sworn this was the "Poser" forum. If you wish to talk about Genesis please take it to the Daz forum.

The Poser vs Genesis is getting old."

Then perhaps more strict moderation like at CG society is in order

instead of letting it get three pages deep perhaps after the first" what about genesis", post move the post/thread to the Daz forum.

Cheers

Let the thread be I want all info related to Daz vs Poser and especially about using Genesis is Poser. You never can get enough information. It is interesting that the Poser guys not only use dishonest argumentation and fallacy arguments but the also most of all would like to shut down the conversation entirely. You cannot say that "this has been discussed before" because every day things happen that affects the issue.

Wolf, we try to be less strict.

Also, please keep in mind the staff are not always online so we may not see things until they get acouple pages in.

Do you really want us to be super strict? I know I'd rather not for you guys.

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Quote - Let the thread be I want all info related to Daz vs Poser and especially about using Genesis is Poser. You never can get enough information. It is interesting that the Poser guys not only use dishonest argumentation and fallacy arguments but the also most of all would like to shut down the conversation entirely. You cannot say that "this has been discussed before" because every day things happen that affects the issue.

vintorix - Let me put this pretty simple.. if the Poser vs Daz continues I will lock the thread. Everyone of those threads become a "mind is better than yours" and fighting starts. The staff is not going to tolerate the fighting and attacks in this forum. The question has been answer by the op.

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

@JoePublic - no worries.

I can understand where you are coming from on the polys now as well :).

I actually think this discussion, though it may have gotten side tracked a bit, was rather productive and informative on both sides. I was hoping that maybe someone here had some better info on getting Genesis into Poser than what has been posted over at DAZ. Would really like to see my Genesis character in Poser with the new SSS :)

I really wish there was a simple answer to the whole Genesis in Poser issue. I'd hate to see the big divide in the community continue, it's rather sad. My main tool of choice has been Carrara since before DAZ got it (actually since P4), so I'm used to being a "second class citizen" in the Poser world - lol.

If I get a chance to give it a go, I'll post back here (if the thread doesn't get locked) and let everyone know how well my character translates to Poser, and the process(s) used.

__________________________________________________________

My Rendo Gallery ........ My DAZ3D Gallery ........... My DA Gallery ......

"The question has been answer by the op."

He has only got the very tip of the iceberg. There is a lot more to using Genesis in Poser but it cannot be discussed for all the time it is interrupted by folks who says "why would you want to do that". Those are the posts that should have been moderated out. If you ask a question about how to do a thing you don't want to be lectured.

Where can you get an answer to "how do I use Genesis in Poser" if not in th Poser forum?

?

Your only seeing this as i'm trying to shut this thread down. I'm far from wanting to do that. If the posts are informative between the two program thats fine.

Keep in mind, everyone has their own opinions. Some don't understand why you'd even want to mess with Daz... let it go. Thats what starts the fights, no need fighting over it.

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Now I have a question of my own. In Cinema 4D there is both permanent subdivision and subdivision "on-the- fly" called Sub Polygon Displacement. As a Cinema user I know to get details you need a high resolution mesh or a normal/displacement map but of course nothing beats the COMBINATION of high resolution and displacement map.

So, when I see some renders of Genesis I recognize the combination of the two but where is the displacement map? It must be generated on-the-fly! Can the genesis displacement map be saved and transferred and made to work in another program like Poser?

Quote - > Quote - You know, Cage, I've never looked inside....

:lol:

Check out PhilC's Gladys Emmanuel freebie. :lol:

Gosh, I guess Beauty really is only skin deep! :lol:

Speaking of Beauty, I did a double-take at Kimberly's new avatar, as her top sort of blends in...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

lol WandW... eek does look that way doesn't it.

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

"If you wants anything done best to do it yourself"

;)

Quote - @JoePublic - no worries.

I can understand where you are coming from on the polys now as well :).

I actually think this discussion, though it may have gotten side tracked a bit, was rather productive and informative on both sides. I was hoping that maybe someone here had some better info on getting Genesis into Poser than what has been posted over at DAZ. Would really like to see my Genesis character in Poser with the new SSS :)

I really wish there was a simple answer to the whole Genesis in Poser issue. I'd hate to see the big divide in the community continue, it's rather sad. My main tool of choice has been Carrara since before DAZ got it (actually since P4), so I'm used to being a "second class citizen" in the Poser world - lol.

If I get a chance to give it a go, I'll post back here (if the thread doesn't get locked) and let everyone know how well my character translates to Poser, and the process(s) used.

Good luck with that (and I mean that).

Like it or not, they designed genesis to work in DS-4 only with Catmull Clark. And expected Smith Micro and the Poser app team to liscence their tech and rewrite the Poser app to be DS crippled. The Poser team wisely said 'no thanks' and kept their known, open architecture and superior features list. You may be able to kludge it in to work somewhat, but I seriously doubt you will -ever- get the g-thing to work in Poser as it does in DS without some serious external python scripts to generate the dazziness that Poser doesn't. And that assumes the needed functions are even exposed in the API.....

As to the 'amateur' remark.....there's at least one project underway I know of where the plan is to use weightmaps, not morphs, for facial animation, and interlinking the maps so single controls work multiple maps. That's kinda high end functionality (as in Maya level). It may or may not work as planned; but there are several new figures in the offing, mapping of past figures, etc. I've got 60+ gigs of stuff back to Posette, and the chance to use them actively with weightmaps, added to the changes in appearance sss and idl produce, and many of those 'old' figures are new again. The truly important thing going on, though, is that people are once again doing.....not waiting for the latest V-thing from DAZ.

Here's hoping the intertia stays with the Poserverse.....

Quote - I could have sworn this was the "Poser" forum. If you wish to talk about Genesis please take it to the Daz forum.

The Poser vs Genesis is getting old.

AMEN

Laurie

@vintorix

I haven't used C4D since version 7 - so I'm definitely not the one to answer anything specific to C4D (but I think Wolf uses it - so he should be able to help). But conceptually, your displacement map will be saved as an image using the UV map of the base geometry/figure. The procedures for saving the displacement map will vary from program to program. As long as the UV map for Genesis in DS is the same as Genesis in Poser (the V4 map for example), the displacement maps should work in Poser.

The key is to have at least the same level of subdivision enabled in your target application as was enabled in the modeling application that created the details for the displacement map. Subdivision levels greater than the original look ok, but are usually just wasted CPU time, subdivision levels lower than the original won't look as detailed, and can give some odd looking results depending on the application.

In the image I showed of my Genesis figure, where no displacement map was used, DS is calculating all the geometry on the fly. With proper base geometry, subdivision will actually look as if it is creating additional geometry due to the way the "tension spline" surfaces are generated (sorry, I don't recall the proper name for the spline surface that Carmull-Clark uses, but it's very similar to the tension spline surface interpolation used for generating digital terrain models from mass points and break lines - something I'm very familiar with).

The figure above gives you an idea how this works in profile, or 2D, now extrapolate that to 3D and you can begin to see how you can create detail that the original mesh never had. (If you've used Illustrator or similar 2D graphics application think of b-splines, only in 3D).

I hope this all made sense, and that I actually answered part of your question :)

(sometimes intent and meaning get lost in translation - hopefully I got it right)

__________________________________________________________

My Rendo Gallery ........ My DAZ3D Gallery ........... My DA Gallery ......

"Like it or not, they designed genesis to work in DS-4 only with Catmull Clark. And expected Smith Micro and the Poser app team to liscence their tech and rewrite the Poser app to be DS crippled"

Well to be fair Daz Chose an industry standard geometry smoothing method "Catmull Clark Subdivision"
and built a figure and content platform that leverages this time proven,decades old method.

If you read Steve coopers blog About why SM wont be Directly supporting Genesis their reasons were less technical and much broader and philosophically sound IMHO.
"We dont want Future of poser tied to a figure we do NOT own"
( paraphrasing)

It is only after Daz Made the foolish mistake of trying to silence the screaming lambs with the cobbled together Cr2 Exporter, that they had concede and
Started tossing up technical reasons why a NON poser product doe not look the same in poser as it does in DS.
And they settled on Catmull Clark and its absence in poser.
OK we know this factor
now the tech heads here can debate the various merits of CC vs Reyes post effect smoothing all they wish.
but people need to remember that people who are most in opposition to genesis support in poser are.. Smith Micro.

Cheers

Quote - Don't think for a minute I'm happy about it, but this market is almost completely driven by the latest greatest "IT-Girl" and her clothes.

And the current "IT-Girl" is Genesis and I see nothing on the horizon that could change that anytime soon.

Really? How much Genesis clothes do you find for sale here, at RDNA, CP. PoserWorld or put another way...anywhere else then Daz?

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

You really think this is over yet and DAZ "lost" ?

The transition might be slower now, but if you want to earn $$$ in the Poserverse then I think it would be prudent to follow the top merchants:

Which all dropped V4 like a hot potato once Genesis was out.

The rest might limp along for some time with supporting V4, but she's at the end of her development cycle, not at the beginning.

Sorry, but I truly think that Poser needs Genesis more than that DAZ needs Poser.

DAZ is all about genesis and pushes it as much as it can - that is clear.

In the other stores this is not the case at all. Even half a year after its release there is still little available outside of the DAZ store.

So "market completely driven for the IT-Girl" is simply not true

The "top merchants" dropping V4 as a hot potato? Maybe yours, but not mine

I pretty much spend as much now as I did a year ago, but spending at DAZ has gone down considerably and has gone up at other stores.

So if a merchant wants to get my money it won't be from the genesis department and looking at the "What's Hot" in the store here, I am not alone

I imported V5 to Poser. I had to check for "Write Material Library" and edit the obj file path but otherwise it went without hitch. I always render in C4D so subdivision is no problem. But the thing fails anyway for two reasons, hair and cloth. I am sure that Daz can solve the hair problem but as they have used procedural texture and shaders the material can not be exported to Poser or any other software. It is a shame. V4 cloth can't be used either we knew that but in Daz they at least have the special cloth made for V5, not so in Poser. And if you export the clothing it becomes part of the skin :(.

It is sad really because the posing inside Poser is fantastic, far better than V4-WM or anything I previously tried.

Oy! This was a good thread whilst it lasted... :sad:

EDIT Ah, vintorix! There might be hope yet that it doesn't get locked!

Hopefully my 3D World will come in the next day or two and I can try importing V5.

So you are saying that the exported conforming clothing doesn't work? I wonder if you could try Outfitter and see if the weight maps will transfer from V5...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Hi WandW, I try the outfitter tomorrow it is 3 in the middle of the night here in Stockholm. But don't expect the outfitter to work withot problems. Up to now I was sure that the special made V5 cloth could be made to work but I should have known better.

I haven't read all of the post and I did read the warning for the moderator, but I do feel the need to address one thing. Genesis does not **need** displacement maps for basic details. As for the Mr Hyde picture a displacement or normals map would be needed even on a high poly figure to the fine muscle striations and viens. I agree the basic male and female morphs for genesis are a little soft looking, this is why there is a Victoria 5. You can see she does have clearly defined shoulder blades in this image.

Another beautiful day!

Here are V5 in the preview window of Poser Pro 2012. Now on to try the outfitter!

The outfitter that is called "The Auto-Fit plug" in in Daz works better than expected. If you dress a genesis figure with cloth that is not made for it the plug-in kicks in automatically. You have to fill in for what figure the item originally made for and what type the cloth is, pants,shirt etc.

To get the new piece of cloth over to Poser use exactly the same procedure as with figures. Prepare an empty runtime with the appropriated folders and export the cloth one-by one. To dress a figure with several items and export it doesn't work. One-by-one it will probably work even with hair and even with Genesis cloth (even if you loose the shaders). I try that later.

The converted and exported cloth once into Poser look and behave precisely as any other cloth. The big challenge for Poser users will be how to render.

That looks great, vintorix.

The quesion that will be asked has been why there wasn't a Poser version distributed. I think the answer is that Poser Python currently doesn't have access to animated joint center parameters, so characters and morphs using animated joints can't be injected within Poser. Rumour is that this capability will be added in SR-2...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Thanks vintorix! Looks like it really is a fairly simple process.

__________________________________________________________

My Rendo Gallery ........ My DAZ3D Gallery ........... My DA Gallery ......

DustRider, "Looks like it really is a fairly simple process."

Sure it was straightforward. Now to make some cloth for Genesis. "Silk pants and top with dynamic embroidered dress and ankle boots" would be a good start I guess.. hipster clothing for a hipster product! Thank you for help and support.

You must use some interesting method for getting genesis clothing to fit V5

The V5 (and most other) morphs adjust the joint centers which Poser does not support for conforming clothing. So the morphs works just fine in the figure, but not in the clothing.

This is the main reason why the cr2 exporter was aborted

And if I read (and experience) the problems which are present in the "outfitter" tool in DS4 I think it is not a big loss after all. If I want shrinkwrapped clothing and loose all the movement morphs, there are plenty of tools which can provide me that functionality.

If you need genesis monsters you can use the exporter to get them into Poser (if you don't mind them being naked) and with a bit of smoothing they look pretty decent

I haven't tried all the variations yet but for the project I have in mind, a dynamic dress over an underlying conforming layser of pants and top it will be sufficient. There is always plan B, leaving Poser altogether. Now when I tried V5 I am not leaving her it will still be possible to drape dynamic genesis cloth in Poser.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the way the cloth fits under her breasts is somewhat seeming to defy the law of gravity. Maybe there's a way to adjust that?

D.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

The Auto-Fit plug will not satisfy the ordinary user neither does Wardrobe Wizard. But for the content provider that gets 90% of the work done for him free it is god sent.

Quote - I can't speak for anyone else, but the way the cloth fits under her breasts is somewhat seeming to defy the law of gravity. Maybe there's a way to adjust that?

I've noticed this with some native Genesis clothing; I think it is a consequence of the ability to follow extreme morphs. Here's an example...

http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/genesis-womens-business?item=13539

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Interesting observation WandW!

Just a last word,
I like to make hybrid cloth where the inner garment is conforming and the outer dynamic or in the case of a dress where the top is conforming and the skirt part dynamic. To have the cloth follow all the morphs of a figure is overkill as it is the dynamic part of the outfit that takes the center stage and get all the attention. This is a niche I want to be in and the cloth is in fact more "Poser specific" than normal cloth which after all can be used in Daz. My clothing cannot be used in Daz at all. So don't accuse me of having abandoned the Poser ship.

Quote - I can't speak for anyone else, but the way the cloth fits under her breasts is somewhat seeming to defy the law of gravity. Maybe there's a way to adjust that?

D.

I've noticed this exact issue in just about every render of clothing auto-fit to a female genesis figure that I've seen. Based on the threads I've read, I'd guess that most people don't seem to notice it at all, though for me, iit looks weird enough to be a deal breaker.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

There is always a workaround, and
Whining bureaucratic pettifoggery never gets you anywhere.

Just some tidbits from my experience..for free ;)

The easiest workaround is use something that works like I want to begin with.
Getting something to look like I want it to, I don't consider pettifoggery. What you like, what you are willing to put up with, those are not considerations. Like everyone, my ideas, my renders, nobody else knows what I want to come up with. I do. I clothe almost all of my figures, therefore, how the cloth drapes is more important than how the figure bends. I'm not going to see the figure, but I will see the cloth.

D.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

Pettifoggery - well at least we've struck a blow for literacy!

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

"His prose is as clear as an azure sky, and his rhetoric as deadly as a rifle shot.
The reviewer stands flabbergasted, paralyzed, silent.
you may bet your bottom dollar. His terse epigrammatic style touches the heart.
His writing is endearing because of its wit, its crisp style, and the obvious delight he takes in it."

Who are they talking about?

Mencken of course!

I have no clue what you are talking about

Sorry about that wimdb. I saw that lmckenzie had a quotation by Mencken and couldn't resist another quotation about him, a man I greatly admire. It is too late, I go to bed.

Vintorix, points for getting the dictionary definition of pettifoggery (though it's actually not really used so much in this context), but the "bureaucratic" part doesn't make sense to me at all, so I'm left asking what on earth are you on about? Did someone give you a hard time renewing your driver's license?

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

This will come in handy when applying V4's poses to Genesis...

This simple pose zeros the hand and foot translations caused by apply a pose saved using IK.

It won't effect other aspects of the pose (rotations, morphs, etc).

http://www.sharecg.com/v/60772/browse/11/Poser/Genesis-Hand-and-Foot-Fix-Pose

PS My copy of 3D World came. But I need to finish doing taxes... :cursing:

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

On my Core Duo 2GHz 2.5GB test rig it takes V5 85 sec. to load in Studio, compared to 23 sec in PP2012.

There are issues with conforming clothing and the V5 morph, likely due to joint centers moving; hopefully SR2 will fix that.

The eyelash transparency map is still turned off as it was in exports from past Studio 4 subversions, but that's a quick tweak in the Material Room. The export process is much improved over the last time I tried it in December, with the obj automagically created and named during the export, but it is given a seemingly random name, rather than being related to the cr2 name; I'll need to give it a reasonable name and edit the cr2 before attempting an EZskin template...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

...there's a free universal morph to fix the suction cup breast issues

http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=171037

@Daz3d
@ShareCG

I'd never seen that. Thanx, JQ.

Now why didn't DAZ think of that?

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

I tried running the exported Magus jacket through Outfitter. I had to use the version of V5 that I had exported with binary morphs, as the cr2 version crashes Outfitter. The sleeves ended up great, but the jacket's skeleton was completely borked below the chest, which reduced the lower half to a twisted heap of smoldering wreckage (well, there wasn't really any smoke, sad to say, but it looked pretty bad)

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

This is based only on speculation. Have you considered exporting out the clothes in their default state as an obj, manually refitting the mesh (external program, or morph brushes, magnets or dynamics inside of poser) and then using the weightmap transfer tools to turn it into a conformer again?

@Daz3d
@ShareCG

I had considered that, Joe, but then the unique morph ERCs are lost.

I'm just playing right now; we'll see if things improve with SR2 and the next version of the exporter...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

It's a bit easier to get Genesis stuff into Poser right now; DAZ has V5 and the Evolution morphs, among other Genesis stuff, and the Older DAZ originals for 50% off.

I would have bought V5 from DAZ instead of getting it from 3D World, had I known... :rolleyes:

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

A genuine technical question on the use of genesis in Poser

I have been playing around with the genesis gorilla and werewolf in Poser.

It works all pretty well because you can export in highres (no clothing needed).

One thing I cannot figure out is the displacement maps on the figures. Somehow they don't look good. I took care of the difference on how Poser and DS handle displacement but it still does not look very good. If I set the displacement too high I get artifacts (clearly visible polygons) and if I set it too low it is hardly visible. I wonder if the smoothing from either DS4 or Poser gets on the way

Has anyone else tried displacement on genesis figures in Poser?

I haven't yet tried the Gorrilla. Does turning off smothing change it?

For some reason the DAZ Gods were smiling on me today, and using Copy Joint Zones worked on the Magus jacket I conformed it, adjusted the figure morphs, and copied the zones. This is 50% SP3 and 50% Kid with the Bree texture...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Is that render using a low Rez genesis with smoothing on?

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

Hi esther,

I forgot to turn smoothing on because I was happy that I got the clothing to almost work, so that's plain old low-res Genesis...

Here's a smoother one...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

awesome. If only we had something like wardrobe wizard that would adjust to genesis shapes.

Love esther

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

Quote - awesome. If only we had something like wardrobe wizard that would adjust to genesis shapes.

Love esther

I'm not sure but isn't that what ColorCurvature's PML script does?

regards
prixat

I don't know. is it mac compatible. anyone tried it?

Love esther

http://istore.mikrotec.com/philc/index1.html?page=catalog&trackerid=848255342&category=a&vid=2080245373&pid=1643252766&oldvid=2143420604

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

Phil does have a Genesis plugin for WW...

I don't have it, but if anyone has tried it, I'd like to hear how well it works...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

That's interesting. I wonder if it would be possible to export the high resolution one and re weightmap it for poser and then fit the clothes?

Love esther

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

I have the genesis addon for WW. Up to now I used to to convert genesis clothing to V4, but I will give a try going the other way around.

One thing is clear already - it involves a lot of clicking check boxes or the clothing gets huge cr2 files (selection of morphs to include). If this works maybe we can get Phil to include some preselections for the "standard" clothing types such as skirt, shirt, etc.

that sounds good.

Oh, how well did the clothing conver to V4? I remember at one stage you were trying the surgeon theatre clothing. How well did that work?

Love esther