Since I have not seen anyone comment on it, I thought I would.

If you do not have V4, it is no longer free.  http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=4783

 

Bill

People that know everything by definition can not learn anything

Which shows that DAZ is saying switch to D|S4/Genesis or leave, to the free(down)loaders isn't it ?

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So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

Well now, let's see how well that works for them.

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If I remember correctly they were starting to take the figures off freestuff. Saw it coming.

Also, lets keep this thread nice. Just a early warning.

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Ah yes, the beginning of the end. It's been a nice ride :).

Laurie

Isn't this par for the course?  When V4, M4 etc. came out, V3, M3, etc. stopped being free.

BTW, I heard somewhere that M5 textures work on M4.  Is that true?  Would make it easier for merchants who want to support both.

V3, M3, etc. stopped being free.

*thats not exactly true ....

Quote - Isn't this par for the course?  When V4, M4 etc. came out, V3, M3, etc. stopped being free.

BTW, I heard somewhere that M5 textures work on M4.  Is that true?  Would make it easier for merchants who want to support both.

Nope, wrong. All the base figures became free at some point...had nothing to do with the release of any figure. They were using the base figures as loss leaders.

I guess they figure they no longer need them.

Laurie

*Kimberly dear, nice try.. :-)

Perhaps all this will end now.

DAZ figures in DS, and Poser figures in Poser.

Finally things begin to make sense. :-)

1+1 will be 2 again.

Aaaah, what a relief, I can go to sleep now. Safe and sound.*

Happy Posering to ya all my dearest friends.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Or??
"Male5" does not like the free competition.

He is kicking them out. LOL....

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"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Didn't know about it.  Doesn't affect me.

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Quote - *Kimberly dear, nice try.. :-)

Perhaps all this will end now.

DAZ figures in DS, and Poser figures in Poser.

Finally things begin to make sense. :-)

1+1 will be 2 again.

Aaaah, what a relief, I can go to sleep now. Safe and sound.*

Happy Posering to ya all my dearest friends.

Ok... you have me confused. What is the point of this post? This thread is regarding Poser. V4.2 is a Poser figure too.

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

It's 12 minutes past  8pm here.  I give this thread until 9:30.  Really.

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I'm really not understanding why it seems you guys want this thread to go south. If you want it to go downhill, it will.

We are adults and all pretty smart, you call know what is good and bad to post.THINK before you post. Anyone that tries to turn this thread bad will be given a warning(in private).

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

erm.. no, I don't want it to go south at all. my reply was not even close to causing that.

it wasn't until 1 certain person decided to play bait the Mod that it started going south.

I wasn't talking about you Khai.  And your wrong.. its not gone south. :)

_____________________
.::That which does not kill us makes us stronger::.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Quote - I'm really not understanding why it seems you guys want this thread to go south. If you want it to go downhill, it will.

We are adults and all pretty smart, you call know what is good and bad to post.THINK before you post. Anyone that tries to turn this thread bad will be given a warning(in private).

I don't want it to go south, either.  I'm making a prediction based on just about every other DAZ related thread in here lately.  

I may be outspoken at times but I don't think I'm irresponsible. 

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Hello good evening from Belgium.

I was just trying to be nice and logical.
Not fishing, not trying to do anything.

To compare;

A Mercedes engine belongs in a Mercedes car.
A BMW engine belongs in a BMW car.

Both have good engines and both have good cars. But do not mix them.

So perhaps, in a long and distant future; DAZ models in DS, and Poser figures in Poser.

Ah, life could be so easy.

Greetings to you all,
Tony

Not going North or South, East or west.
But going to bed after a long day.
Sleep tight.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

As it is about V4 it is also very much related to Poser and I don't want to see this go south any more than any other thread but if it does start slipping I would like it to be moved, locked or deleted before it gets personal rather than after.

 

Having said all that, and based on recent history, a very early reminder to 'play nice' does not go amiss. 

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - Hello good evening from Belgium.

I was just trying to be nice and logical.
Not fishing, not trying to do anything.

To compare;

A Mercedes engine belongs in a Mercedes car.
A BMW engine belongs in a BMW car.

Both have good engines and both have good cars. But do not mix them.

So perhaps, in a long and distant future; DAZ models in DS, and Poser figures in Poser.

Ah, life could be so easy.

Greetings to you all,
Tony

Not going North or South, East or west.
But going to bed after a long day.
Sleep tight.

Whut?  Zygote - the former owners of DAZ - made the native Poser figures.  

Anyhow, I don't see anything wrong with making figures cross compatible; it seems silly to cut out half your market when people have little enough money to start with.

I'm assuming that's what you're getting at.

Still, what DAZ does is nobody's business but their own.  Pun intended. 

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Actually this makes sense to me. If you are no longer going to be able to sell to a market (Poser users not being able to use Genesis) then you charge for any products you have that ARE usable to that market (V4/M4). Economics 101. 

"If you do not have V4, it is no longer free"

Well, looking at solely the Poser side of things, that should provide some extra incentive for competing figures, especially considering a $30 regular price.  Outstanding!  Savvy designers should be able to benefit from this.

.

Quote - Actually this makes sense to me. If you are no longer going to be able to sell to a market (Poser users not being able to use Genesis) then you charge for any products you have that ARE usable to that market (V4/M4). Economics 101. 

I don't see it.  Maybe a Poser compatible V5/M5 package but not a model which has been free for most of its release.  Considering most people who want it will already have it, I doubt there will be many sales, particularly since the model and mesh has been roundly slated ever since it first appeared.

Still, if they make a few bucks off it now and again it may justify the server space. :) 

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Existing poser users have had enough time to get their "free" copy of V4 and many new users will get the V4 Installer files from  the warez/file sharing communities and will justify it buy saying
they refuse to pay for something that used to be given away free of charge.

The same will happen if DAZ studio pro4 ever becomes a "paid"app again

You can NOT stuff your free toothpaste back into the tube and expect people to happily start paying for it.

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Quote - You can NOT stuff your free toothpaste back into the tube and expect people to happily start paying for it.

Cheers

Something tells me they know that ;). Maybe they're looking to retire her. Who knows.

Laurie

I didn't say it woukld work. I simply am guessing that is their mindset.

It will add value to the DAZ book for sure :)

 

Bill

People that know everything by definition can not learn anything

"Maybe they're looking to retire her. Who knows."

Seems rather simple to me.
The new price is a "Surcharge" for them providing continued tech support for a product line they consider vestigial.

As a free "loss leader" they got their returns on the sales of V4 specific by products
(Character sets, slutwear etc.)

There will be no more "Daz originals" for the Gen4 figures  and
any new content will have to come from Risk taking third parties.

IMHO this pretty much kills the V4/M4 "weightmapping" movement unless  poser merchants take up the mantle of providing all new content for the older models.

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I feel that by pricing it now, after having it free for a long time, is simply a deterrent.  Is it a trying to move folks towards Genesis?  Yep.  I'm not attacking Genesis either.  It's their properties and they can do as they like.  They can price V4 at $100 if they want.  Doesn't bother me.  Is it interesting to watch?  Yep! :)

I don't think its a servicing charge at all.  They made their money on it many times over, both in original accessories and their brokered content share.

They've done this with the other figure lines and those, IMHO, were deterrents too.  So it wasn't a matter of "if", it was a matter of "when". 

.

One would think that the more ppl buying at your store the better, but I guess not...lol.

Laurie

Some of you worry too much :) Give it a few months and it'll be free again, then all the folks that bought it will complain about paying for it. Bit later, it'll go back on sale again and the cycle repeats. Look at V3 and V4 for that. Thats the model and if works fair play to daz. Indeed watch out for M5 as a freebie in a few months time. Unless someones desperate to "must have" the lastest toy. It seems the trick is to be patient, wait wait until it's a freebie and then getting it.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

I could have sworn v3 was for pay when I first started poser. I might be wrong with that. I know the v2 one was. They seem to bounce back and forth. Who knows what their buisness model is. It's likely this stuff is all dictated on how they need the books to look.

Chances are they are still trying to encourage people to switch to genesis. They spent all this money to create it. They want people to use it.

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Yes. I paid for the V3 base for sure.  Back then, making something like that free afterwards didn't sting so much because Daz regularly had some wicked sales. Of course, as a newbie to the Platinum Club back then, I also felt happily overwhelmed with tons of very cheap content.  I'm not sure how such a move of switching back and forth from paid to free would fly these days.

It's probably a smart move by Daz.  If you want to stimulate adoption of your newest version, ending support for the old ones seems standard these days, and as Red Phantom says, there may well be solid accounting reasons.  One way to get Genesis to take up an increased % of sales is to reduce the % of Gen 4 bases.

Of course, a free V4 did make her extremely popular.  My brow furrows slightly at the thought that she will no longer be quite the target for content creators as she was when free -- and one wonders whether Daz might do something drastic and vault their old bases on the grounds that the shapes are now available for Genesis.  That might put a halt on Gen 4 content production...

I don't think it matters that long time users already have a copy of the bases.  New users are surely the ones driving the market for repeated iterations of the same tiny bikini, for instance, because it can't be the people who already have ten tiny bikinis buying their eleventh that make such content so profitable, can it?

 

---

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I recall V3 being 99 or summat like that, then 50, price varied and then free. Which was a smart move. Though with genesis it's academic for me personally as I only use poser. Yes I hear genesis can work in that, but it requires some tweaking. Some days I've got barely time enough to fart, let alone waste time tinkering. So I won't buy that stuff, instead I'll buy something that I knows works with no hassle.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

"It's probably a smart move by Daz.  If you want to stimulate adoption of your newest version, ending support for the old ones seems standard these days, and as Red Phantom says, there may well be solid accounting reasons.  One way to get Genesis to take up an increased % of sales is to reduce the % of Gen 4 bases."

I agree.

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"It's probably a smart move by Daz.  If you want to stimulate adoption of your newest version, ending support for the old ones seems standard these days, and as Red Phantom says, there may well be solid accounting reasons.  One way to get Genesis to take up an increased % of sales is to reduce the % of Gen 4 bases."

I agree.

Cheers

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YouTube Channel

Now SM REALLY needs to step up to the plate and make TRULY comparable figures. Not the kind of crap (sorry guys) that's come with Poser since version 7 (Jesse and James weren't that bad). And while I love Miki 1020, she had a ton of problems. And Miki 2 and 3, while nice, are still Asian figures only. We need a figure that will go from one to another and with the morphs to do so. SM just may have to go into the content business full bore...lol.

A word on Anastasia. I like her a lot. Perhaps SM should think about making a figure that looks close to that out of the box, rather than horse-faced and butt-ugly Alyson and Ryan with nice morphs ;).

Oops...swore I was gonna be nice..lol.

Laurie

Well there is some super secret figure project underway that has bagginsbill under NDA
from the thread it seems they are going to give ryan the "Anastasia" treatment or intro a new weightmapped Male figure all together that will shake the industry and be a game changer.

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Quote -

IMHO this pretty much kills the V4/M4 "weightmapping" movement unless  poser merchants take up the mantle of providing all new content for the older models.

Cheers

 

I dont think that follows at all.  v4/M4 Weightmapping projects are efforts aimed at giving poser 9/pp2012 users a weightmapped figure that can leverage their existing libraries.  A price on v4/m4 base changes that purpose in no way.  

Quote - Now SM REALLY needs to step up to the plate and make TRULY comparable figures. Not the kind of crap (sorry guys) that's come with Poser since version 7 (Jesse and James weren't that bad). And while I love Miki 1020, she had a ton of problems. And Miki 2 and 3, while nice, are still Asian figures only. We need a figure that will go from one to another and with the morphs to do so. SM just may have to go into the content business full bore...lol.

A word on Anastasia. I like her a lot. Perhaps SM should think about making a figure that looks close to that out of the box, rather than horse-faced and butt-ugly Alyson and Ryan with nice morphs ;).

Oops...swore I was gonna be nice..lol.

Laurie

Agree. Alyson and Ryan do not even look human to me. I'm astounded that Anastasia shares any DNA with either one of them.

---

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Quote - > Quote -

IMHO this pretty much kills the V4/M4 "weightmapping" movement unless  poser merchants take up the mantle of providing all new content for the older models.

Cheers

 

I dont think that follows at all.  v4/M4 Weightmapping projects are efforts aimed at giving poser 9/pp2012 users a weightmapped figure that can leverage their existing libraries.  A price on v4/m4 base changes that purpose in no way.  

Actually it does. Because it throws a barrier to entry for any one new to 3D.  Previously in order to get the tools to weightmap V4, you just went to DAZ, got a free download of V4 then used the tool. With the $30+ that new users have to pay for V4 and morphs ++, new users now have to weigh paying that amount to get to that functionality. I would have never gotten into 3D if I didn't see that advertisement for downloading M4 for free... and the economy was in much better shape. In this economy, people will weigh paying $30+ to try out a figure that they may not use. And if you don't get enough users and vendors to support your product, it will die off. Also, if no one buys that $30 V4, then it can be said by DAZ no one is using it, and throw the figure right into the vault.

Now the "get your free V4" no longer works to push the WM Gen 4 figures; now new users have to pay for the priviledge to try a communty project.

When I beta tested 2012, I was disappointed because there was nothing really to showcase Poser's new weightmapping features. Ryan and Alyson were really horrible choices to showcase the technology, and they are horrible to morph...at least James and Jessi should have been the ones to weightmapped.

Yeah, am still to this day not sure why they abandoned James and Jesse for Alyson and Ryan. Must be a licensing thing I guess. James was probably the last half decent figure to come out of Poser for awhile, besides the extra purchases like Miki, etc.

Laurie

I must be misremembering. I thought they announced some months ago that the free base figures were being returned to paid - so this isn't exactly 'news.' Some folks will buy them, some won't. Dogs bark and the caravan moves on as they say :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

the weightmap projects have nothing to do with trying to gain or keep market share for those figures.  They are entirely about giving something to the community of existing users.  A stop gap and bridge until other, better figures can be put in place.  Their purpose is served regardless if any person buys the gen 4 figures ever again.

The gen 4 figures were chosen for weightmap support not because they are great figures that the crew wanted to see endure, but because they are so pervasively entrenched in peoples runtimes.  In fact the eroding of the 'new user' base for these figures only strengthens the incentive for vendors to support and companies to better support other figures that are designed for poser.  This moves, in my eyes, just marks Dazs exit from the poser figure market and I'm perfectly OK with that

Quote - Yeah, am still to this day not sure why they abandoned James and Jesse for Alyson and Ryan. Must be a licensing thing I guess. James was probably the last half decent figure to come out of Poser for awhile, besides the extra purchases like Miki, etc.

Laurie

 

I'm not sure that James and Jessi were abandoned exactly.  I recall reading one of the SM guys saying that p9 was a features update and they didn't alot very much resources to content.  I think I remember in the same post him saying that he would have liked to have put more time into Ryan and Alyson as well.

I guess I'm being optimistic but I see it as an opportunity.  It throws a barrier but only slightly.  This is certainly an attempt (IMHO) to pave the road to DS and Genesis but it could have the opposite effect of folks exploring the content in their runtimes and seeing what is out there in the way of alternatives.  There are several figures that are free, cheap or come with a price but are loaded with goodies.

There are a ton of free figures in Poser, especially if you explore everything that is there: Sydney, James, Jessi, etc.  This is a great opportunity to touch up those figures or weight map them or whatever.

It might even spur more folks on to exploring the idea of content creation.  It can be a winning scenario. 

.

 

Back in 2001 Vicky 1 and Mike 1 were $59.95 each.

Textures were sold separately at $24.95 each.

Clothing set you back another $34.95 for each.

There was no "DAZ Studio" around and Poser was the only game in town.

Vicky and Mike had so few clothes that DAZ had to create additional Mike-P4 and Vicky-P4 figures that could wear Dork and Posette clothing.

 

Posette and Dork OTOH were free with each copy of Poser.

They had a large default wardrobe, "casual" versions and a lot of freebie textures and clothing. Morphs and cr2s could be freely shared as everybody had them.

Still people rather gave DAZ their last cent than be caught with one of Poser's native figures.

And the same has been true for all consecutive generations of figures.

Yes, laugh all you can about DAZ' marketing. Yes, I had my share of laughs about them in the past, too.

But right now, I don't feel like laughing anymore.

Not at all.

 

 

Download.com still carries the free content for Daz Studio, and that might still contain the free V3 and M3 figures.  

From a business perspective, the price of the V4 and M4 figures should make them more expensive compared to the new V5 and M5 Genesis figures, so new customers will choose cheaper newer versions - I am guessing !

I have had it with the catch-up game.  Not going to be dragged along to use newer figures from Daz.  Quite happy to use older DAZ figures, as well as those which come with Poser.  May have to manually tweak some things, but I'm comfortable, and just want to have fun with my digital art.

 

Eternal Hobbyist

 

Even for non-controversial items like animals, scenes and plants I have found Daz expensive lately. I look around carefully now before buying, and also decide whether I could have made the item myself. I buy less and less from Daz.

I am a hobbyist, but only partly. I got into 3d for business reasons, to produce graphics for training materials. When I original bought Poser Pro (I think it was in 2007 or 2008), it never occurred to me that I should use figures from Daz.  I happily snapped up every G2 figure, and bought lots of characters and clothes for them. OK, I was ignorant about the industry. What made me eventually start using Daz figures was buying a Poserworld membership. When the Daz base figures became free, I happily bought morph sets and textures for them to take advantage of the clothes at Poserworld and the freebies here and at ShareCG. Over the years I have collected over 360 characters for V3, and about the same number for V4. I still use the G2 figures a lot in spite of that. They suit my purpose, especially with the career wear available for them.

I now have a lot of utilities for Poser to help me create my own content (thank you PhilC). That strengthens my commitment to Poser.

Daz just doesn't represent good value any more. I still sometimes look at their store when I need an item. I often find a better deal somewhere else, so I don't end up buying there so much any more. They need to look at their value proposition holistically.

 

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The majority of things released in other stores as DAZ is still for V4 and is a LOT cheaper as items for genesis. For newcomers the additional cost for V4 pales to what they have to spend on clothing and hair if they want to have a decent wardrobe. That has never changed. But even so, the route with a paid version of V4 and non-DAZ stores is probably a lot cheaper as the genesis route at the DAZ store.

Wheter it is a sign of good marketing to alienate a good portion of your customers to lure in new customers is something only time will tell, but it does not help your reputation. The ones who are really feeling the pain in the short run are the smaller vendors because of the split market.

 

Quote - I am a hobbyist, but only partly. I got into 3d for business reasons, to produce graphics for training materials. When I original bought Poser Pro (I think it was in 2007 or 2008), it never occurred to me that I should use figures from Daz.  I happily snapped up every G2 figure, and bought lots of characters and clothes for them. OK, I was ignorant about the industry. What made me eventually start using Daz figures was buying a Poserworld membership. When the Daz base figures became free, I happily bought morph sets and textures for them to take advantage of the clothes at Poserworld and the freebies here and at ShareCG. Over the years I have collected over 360 characters for V3, and about the same number for V4. I still use the G2 figures a lot in spite of that. They suit my purpose, especially with the career wear available for them.

I now have a lot of utilities for Poser to help me create my own content (thank you PhilC). That strengthens my commitment to Poser.

Daz just doesn't represent good value any more. I still sometimes look at their store when I need an item. I often find a better deal somewhere else, so I don't end up buying there so much any more. They need to look at their value proposition holistically.

Actually I think they have. Think about what you posted. You're a hobbyist and probably don't have a lot of money to spend on content. If you want your content business to thrive, who do you need? 

People with money to spend and not trained to expect stuff for free or heavily discounted. How do you do that? Bring in new users to replace the ones not paying then have set prices for item so they see things they want have a set price to them. So then those new customers not only buy new stuff, but then start going through the old stuff to and buy it... even at full price. I know that been happening at my store.

What I've seen a lot in the past are very vocal people that want things, yet have no money to actually pay for those things. It OK to want things from a company as a consumer.... but being a consumer means once those things are available, you pay for them then; not wishlist them for later... that defeats the purpose of demanding a supply of a product. Because if you don't the company will start listening to those who are actually paying and weed out the ones that aren't. If you're doing your shopping at other places instead of theirs, they'll charge for those things that used to be free that people just only ran into the store to get and run out... and start catering to those actually in the store shopping and buying. That's pretty much simple business there.

I paid for V4 back in the day.  It's a business decision, nothing more...

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As a hobbist I am always looking for ways to improve my renders and characters but also need to keep an eye on the costs involved in this improvement.  I happly upgraded to Poser 2012 as the improvements seemed well worth the money.  I use V4WM extensively now and have done since she was released and, as there was no cost, it was a no brainer for me.  I can therefore understand the drive to improve and search for the 'perfect" figure/character.

Looking at the Poser gallery here suggests that this is far from being a global aim and many are quite happy with older figures and show little concern for how they bend or the reality of the textures.  In fact the galleries might also imply that such people are by far in the majority.  Nothing wrong in that at all, but I mention it as, for such people, Genesis or even V4WM would be of little interest.  Making predictions on the fortune of any peice of software is often heavily influenced by the personal goals of those making the prediction, again nothing wrong in that but the majority may just carry on using the software in the way they always have and purchase on the basis of their own needs which may be very different to the fortune tellers.

I love mony of the predictions and speculations that appear on a regular basis but do I believe them? Ask me again in a few years.

 

 

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How many people have read this thread? Almost 600 now. How many are going to pop over to Daz to see what's going on as a result of reading this thread? How many are gonna buy something while they are over there? That's Daz marketing. 

As Martin Landau's character in Ed Wood said "Even bad press is good press".

Quote - Actually I think they have. Think about what you posted. You're a hobbyist and probably don't have a lot of money to spend on content. If you want your content business to thrive, who do you need?  People with money to spend and not trained to expect stuff for free or heavily discounted. How do you do that? Bring in new users to replace the ones not paying then have set prices for item so they see things they want have a set price to them. So then those new customers not only buy new stuff, but then start going through the old stuff to and buy it... even at full price. I know that been happening at my store.

What I've seen a lot in the past are very vocal people that want things, yet have no money to actually pay for those things. It OK to want things from a company as a consumer.... but being a consumer means once those things are available, you pay for them then; not wishlist them for later... that defeats the purpose of demanding a supply of a product. Because if you don't the company will start listening to those who are actually paying and weed out the ones that aren't. If you're doing your shopping at other places instead of theirs, they'll charge for those things that used to be free that people just only ran into the store to get and run out... and start catering to those actually in the store shopping and buying. That's pretty much simple business there.

And ALL of what you just said is Daz's doing! LOL They're the ones that started the freebie train and deep discounts and put prices in the toilet. THEY are the ones that devalued every other vendors product at the time. The fact that they are now trying to reverse that is testament to just how much prices fell into the pit because of them. I remember at the time thinking how I really wished they wouldn't put everything out for free, because I knew what would follow - an entitled customer base that thought that if they got the figure for free, the stuff for it should be dirt cheap or free. That's Daz's fault...lol. Adn the fact that they're moaning about it now falls on deaf ears, really it does.

Laurie

Laurie,

You'll get no argument from me on that. ;) I'm just lucky my 3D work pays for my 3D addiction and part of my freetime activities and my main job pays for everything else... although these last few months of sales have helped me pay for this Europe trip in June.

> Quote - ...And the fact that they're moaning about it now falls on deaf ears, really it does.

:biggrin:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Quote - Laurie,

You'll get no argument from me on that. ;) I'm just lucky my 3D work pays for my 3D addiction and part of my freetime activities and my main job pays for everything else... although these last few months of sales have helped me pay for this Europe trip in June.

Heh, I agree. When I was a vendor I bought a lot more than I can justify now that I'm not ;).

Laurie

Quote - Download.com still carries the free content for Daz Studio, and that might still contain the free V3 and M3 figures. 

 

look further.. a coupla weeks ago, the Zip for the Gen3 (M3.v3, a3, etc) was still there....

"And ALL of what you just said is Daz's doing! LOL They're the ones that started the freebie train and deep discounts and put prices in the toilet. THEY are the ones that devalued every other vendors product at the time. The fact that they are now trying to reverse that is testament to just how much prices fell into the pit because of them. I remember at the time thinking how I really wished they wouldn't put everything out for free, because I knew what would follow - an entitled customer base that thought that if they got the figure for free, the stuff for it should be dirt cheap or free. That's Daz's fault...lol. Adn the fact that they're moaning about it now falls on deaf ears, really it does."

Well said!
Daz drove down prices and peoples expectations to unsustainable levels.
 
And alternatively Curious Labs, Efrontier and Smith Micro, et al
Rode the gravy train along the way by focusing on a few new poser
application features while putting forth native poser figures that ranged from lackluster to utterly embarrassing.

Secure in the knowledge that poser buyers would remain comfortably in poser and get their lowcost/free poser compatible content from DAZ

Yeah yeah I know they built "content paradise" but IMHO frankly the overall quality of the stuff over there was often shockingly subpar compared to the DAZ store.

Cheers 

My website

YouTube Channel

Quote - "And ALL of what you just said is Daz's doing! LOL They're the ones that started the freebie train and deep discounts and put prices in the toilet. THEY are the ones that devalued every other vendors product at the time. The fact that they are now trying to reverse that is testament to just how much prices fell into the pit because of them. I remember at the time thinking how I really wished they wouldn't put everything out for free, because I knew what would follow - an entitled customer base that thought that if they got the figure for free, the stuff for it should be dirt cheap or free. That's Daz's fault...lol. Adn the fact that they're moaning about it now falls on deaf ears, really it does."

Well said!
Daz drove down prices and peoples expectations to unsustainable levels.
 
And alternatively Curious Labs, Efrontier and Smith Micro, et al
Rode the gravy train along the way by focusing on a few new poser
application features while putting forth native poser figures that ranged from lackluster to utterly embarrassing.

Secure in the knowledge that poser buyers would remain comfortably in poser and get their lowcost/free poser compatible content from DAZ

Yeah yeah I know they built "content paradise" but IMHO frankly the overall quality of the stuff over there was often shockingly subpar compared to the DAZ store.

Cheers 

 

And we had kept it bash free up to now - and here he goes again......

 

Play nice, children. No personal attacks.

No one has said anything that is not true as far as I can tell.

Daz and Smith Micro are guilty of all charges made against them, as far as I can see. No one is out of line by pointing that out.

Both companies are now in the Endgame of the process that they set in motion. Time alone will tell whether SM steps up to the plate with some WOW figures, or if Daz will survive going their own way.

Let's just keep the discussion where it belongs and not become beligerant.

Quote - "And ALL of what you just said is Daz's doing! LOL They're the ones that started the freebie train and deep discounts and put prices in the toilet. THEY are the ones that devalued every other vendors product at the time. The fact that they are now trying to reverse that is testament to just how much prices fell into the pit because of them. I remember at the time thinking how I really wished they wouldn't put everything out for free, because I knew what would follow - an entitled customer base that thought that if they got the figure for free, the stuff for it should be dirt cheap or free. That's Daz's fault...lol. Adn the fact that they're moaning about it now falls on deaf ears, really it does."

Well said!
Daz drove down prices and peoples expectations to unsustainable levels.
 
And alternatively Curious Labs, Efrontier and Smith Micro, et al
Rode the gravy train along the way by focusing on a few new poser
application features while putting forth native poser figures that ranged from lackluster to utterly embarrassing.

Secure in the knowledge that poser buyers would remain comfortably in poser and get their lowcost/free poser compatible content from DAZ

Yeah yeah I know they built "content paradise" but IMHO frankly the overall quality of the stuff over there was often shockingly subpar compared to the DAZ store.

Cheers 

Can't disagree.

There is a lot of great content at content paradise, I'm sure, but the website UI makes it hellishly difficult to find anything and the promo images never seem large enough.  The impression I get from browsing is that much of the stuff is not very good.  I don't know whether this impression is at all correct or not, (I am no doubt greatly affected by my annoyance at the website itself) but for marketing purposes, perception is [almost] everything. This is one area I think SM would be wise to look into if, indeed, Poser's sales may be affected by the availability of quality content for it in the future.

As for Daz, a reliable, hassle free money back guarantee is a very, very strong marketing tool.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Thanks basicwiz!  I agree with everything you and the sentiments about these companies.  It's pretty darn true.

But, you know, it's also our fault as developers and customers of letting it happen too, concerning figure dominance.  It was the easy route.  It was the safe route.  I'm speaking very generally and not even about myself in recent years.  I made a lot of content for Victoria 3, Aiko 3 and so on.  V4... not so much.

.

Quote - Thanks basicwiz!  I agree with everything you and the sentiments about these companies.  It's pretty darn true.

But, you know, it's also our fault as developers and customers of letting it happen too, concerning figure dominance.  It was the easy route.  It was the safe route.  I'm speaking very generally and not even about myself in recent years.  I made a lot of content for Victoria 3, Aiko 3 and so on.  V4... not so much.

And it was some of my very favorite V3, A3 and S3 stuff too ;).

And yes, I agree. It is our fault as much as anyone elses. After all, we were the one that eschewed all other figures but the Daz figures...hehe. If I were a better modeler, I'd try and do or start something, but I'm barely a neophyte...lol. Textures for clothes I can do. Simply props and some clothes I can do, but not much else. I wish I were better...lol. Even so, it would have to be an awesome figure indeed that would knock Vicky off her ivory tower :P.

Laurie

Quote - Even so, it would have to be an awesome figure indeed that would knock Vicky off her ivory tower :P. Laurie

I agree. That said, I'm imagining for a moment that Alyson as Anastasia were that awesome figure. What's missing, I think, is that she isn't permanently attached to the front page of the marketplace where she's being sold.

If I were a newbie coming to the market now, I would probably never see her.

Vicky, in all of her incarnations, has never left the front page.  You can't miss her.

I wouldn't expect Renderosity to become the beacon supporting a new Poser figure no matter how great because surely Renderosity is concerned (and rightfully so) with promoting whatever makes money, be that V4, Genesis, or whatever.

This is where I wish SM were willing/able to put a lot of hard work into content selling and marketing in an environment in which every single page, front to back, pointed to and showcased this "new figure" whatever it might be.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - The impression I get from browsing is that much of the stuff is not very good.  I don't know whether this impression is at all correct or not, (I am no doubt greatly affected by my annoyance at the website itself) but for marketing purposes, perception is [almost] everything.

 

I agree with you. I think part of the problem is they have a lower threshold for entry into their marketplace.

But, as it being a problem, from a perspective / impression then yes it is but it also allows buyers to choose between expensive high quality products and cheaper not so high quality products. Not everyone wants...say a pair of boots at $10.00 when a less quality product can be had, and it works for their use, at $5.00.

Also, Daz is much more stringent on promos where I get the impression that Content Paradise isn't. Heck, Daz has internal people (person?) that does promos for some of their content.

From what I'm aware, SM does not police Content Paradise at all. Not for product, quality, or quality (or lack thereof) of promos ;).

Laurie

Quote - ...That said, I'm imagining for a moment that Alyson as Anastasia were that awesome figure. What's missing, I think, is that she isn't permanently attached to the front page of the marketplace where she's being sold. If I were a newbie coming to the market now, I would probably never see her.

 

And there's just not the support for her unfortunately. There's really not much for her at the moment and that's not going to encourage anyone to buy her in preference to V4. I think Anastasia's great, but even I'm struggling to find enough use for her :(

Quote - > Quote - ...That said, I'm imagining for a moment that Alyson as Anastasia were that awesome figure. What's missing, I think, is that she isn't permanently attached to the front page of the marketplace where she's being sold. If I were a newbie coming to the market now, I would probably never see her.

 

And there's just not the support for her unfortunately. There's really not much for her at the moment and that's not going to encourage anyone to buy her in preference to V4. I think Anastasia's great, but even I'm struggling to find enough use for her :(

Wardrobe Wizard is your friend.

I have rolled all of V4's content through for her and every other female I have.  40Gb each. 

Ah for the days when one could find something here besides 'help my Poser is broken,' and endless ruminations on real or imagined corporate malfeasance. I think the Poser forum link now directs to Smith Micro Tech Support or the Federal Trade Commission Complaint desk. I hope there are still people out there having fun with this stuff because it seems to have become more like work or some freaky religious cult these days. Maybe that's why so many old familiars are MIA. What was it Yogi said? 'It's so crowded, nobody goes there anymore.'

Sigh, excuse me, I have to go chase the kids off my lawn.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Also, Daz is much more stringent on promos where I get the impression that Content Paradise isn't... Nope. Daz has a house style. Rendo and CP don't and get sellers make their own promos. Also just because a promo is good, doesn't always mean the product will be. Loads of times I've bought stuff where the promos ain't masterpieces, but the product is excellent. Plus how often has this board seen posts from folks asking why, despite what they try, they can never get the item to look it does in the promos? Then again I guess if Daz V SM is akin to Mac V PC, supporters will never see the postives on the other side. They'll always want to slate the opposition. Which I reckon for our stuff is a mistake. Just because it's at one store doesn't automatically mean it's always better. If anything often buying outside gives better quality, choice and value.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

Quote - Also, Daz is much more stringent on promos where I get the impression that Content Paradise isn't... Nope. Daz has a house style. Rendo and CP don't and get sellers make their own promos. Also just because a promo is good, doesn't always mean the product will be. Loads of times I've bought stuff where the promos ain't masterpieces, but the product is excellent. Plus how often has this board seen posts from folks asking why, despite what they try, they can never get the item to look it does in the promos? Then again I guess if Daz V SM is akin to Mac V PC, supporters will never see the postives on the other side. They'll always want to slate the opposition. Which I reckon for our stuff is a mistake. Just because it's at one store doesn't automatically mean it's always better. If anything often buying outside gives better quality, choice and value.

Oh, I totally agree with you. Sometimes the product promos don't do the product justice. Also For the past year I've spent more here, Content Paradise, RDNA, and your store. I like choice and I like my money to go further. I don't feel any product I bought was lacking versus what another store had.

One thing I always did find lacking... I've heard that some vendors prefer Daz because they handle product support. I would much rather have the vendor cover that because I find the turn around time on a fix much quicker. I've waited from 1 month to a year and a half for a product to be fixed when I filed with the product support site they have.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - ...That said, I'm imagining for a moment that Alyson as Anastasia were that awesome figure. What's missing, I think, is that she isn't permanently attached to the front page of the marketplace where she's being sold. If I were a newbie coming to the market now, I would probably never see her.

 

And there's just not the support for her unfortunately. There's really not much for her at the moment and that's not going to encourage anyone to buy her in preference to V4. I think Anastasia's great, but even I'm struggling to find enough use for her :(

Wardrobe Wizard is your friend.

I have rolled all of V4's content through for her and every other female I have.  40Gb each. 

 

But having to convert clothes to fit her isn't going to increase her popularity much, especially with anyone new to Poser. If there was a load of great stuff made for her then people might be encouraged to buy her. I've converted a couple of things with WW, but I don't get along with it nearly so well as CrossDresser. I've not used WW much so far but I'm not terribly pleased with the results. Other thing is if I start using WW I have to buy a load of licences that I already have for XD and I would only use for Ana so not really worth it. :(

Quote - Also, Daz is much more stringent on promos where I get the impression that Content Paradise isn't... Nope. Daz has a house style. Rendo and CP don't and get sellers make their own promos. Also just because a promo is good, doesn't always mean the product will be. Loads of times I've bought stuff where the promos ain't masterpieces, but the product is excellent. Plus how often has this board seen posts from folks asking why, despite what they try, they can never get the item to look it does in the promos? Then again I guess if Daz V SM is akin to Mac V PC, supporters will never see the postives on the other side. They'll always want to slate the opposition. Which I reckon for our stuff is a mistake. Just because it's at one store doesn't automatically mean it's always better. If anything often buying outside gives better quality, choice and value.

If I don't see a product looking good in someone's image (promo, gallery, etc), I'm not likely to buy it unless there's a very good chance I can get my money back.  True enough, I have bought things with outstanding promos that still just didn't work out for me.  But that only makes me even more suspicious of the bad promos.  I mean, if the vendor can't make a product look good, I can hardly expect to do better.

My complaint about Content Paradise, though, isn't the quality of the promos particularly. It's the size and quantity.  They're 400 x 400 pixels, which to me is basically a thumbnail. Moreover, many products seem to have only one or two images.  Together with search filters that are basically broken and scripting that makes using the backbutton a potential incitement to rage, it does not make the site particularly pleasurable to browse.

After buying a lot of stuff from here, RDNA, Daz, and a few creator's sites, I can say I totally agree that no particular store has a monopoly on quality.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

If only Smith Micro would let Blackhearted, the Antonia crew and BB get together to make some kick ass native Poser figures featuring every single Poser enhancement and a slew of content to go with them, that would be it; Game Over.

Nice to dream, ain't it? 

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Quote - Nope. Daz has a house style. Rendo and CP don't and get sellers make their own promos.

DAZ PAs make their own promos for their products too. Only the DAZ originals have promos made by the DAZ promo artists.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

what about these figures??

http://bvh3d.com/cynthia.php

if you want a character to be popular with lots of stuff, then you got to get on the ball and  make something for it.

 

www.bloodyrosesdesigns.com

 

http://www.aldaraproject.com/aldara/

http://www.dreamslayervisions.com

Quote - If only Smith Micro would let Blackhearted, the Antonia crew and BB get together to make some kick ass native Poser figures featuring every single Poser enhancement and a slew of content to go with them, that would be it; Game Over.

Nice to dream, ain't it? 

Nice indeed Samtherapy... that's a good dream too... and a quick Google for a decent quote to substantiate my consensus here brought forth these beauties:

"Dreams are extremely important. You can't do it unless you imagine it." -- George Lucas

"I don't dream at night, I dream all day; I dream for a living." --Steven Spielberg

 Then lastly, somewhat related:

"A mediocre idea that generates enthusiasm will go further than a great idea that inspires no one."
**--Mary Kay Ash **

Quote -
"A mediocre idea that generates enthusiasm will go further than a great idea that inspires no one."
**--Mary Kay Ash **

And, of all people, Mary Kay would know just how far a mediocre idea can go.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Well, I have neither the time, money or influence to bring about such a collaboration.  I wouldn't even know if any of the parties mentioned would be interested.  I know, for example, Blackhearted is a top notch modeller, BB is the God of Shaders and so on but they may all be happy enough doing what they're doing.

In any event, it seems clear to me that whoever is currently making the human models for Smith Micro ought to give over, or at least learn a bit about human anatomy.  Not just my opinion, either but seems to be the consensus that each and every one of them to escape since Posette has serious shortcomings.  And in many cases, seriously short arms. :) 

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Quote -   And in many cases, seriously short arms. :) 

ROFLMAO!!!!

It wouldn't be funny were it not spot on!

Studio 4 Pro is free no more, (I'm glad I stocked up ) and the free version at Download.com is seriously out of date, which affects the availibility of the free Genesis base to Poser users.  I wonder what the 4.1 update will cost?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

"If only Smith Micro would let Blackhearted, the Antonia crew and BB get together to make some kick ass native Poser figures featuring every single Poser enhancement and a slew of content to go with them,"

For such an undertaking SM should
$$pay$$ those people you named their full commercial rate under contract.

History (remember Luxpose???), has shown that such "Community projects" have the potential to quickly go down in flames when disagreements erupt amongst the volunteers.  

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

And then there are things like EZskin, V4WM, Outfitter that work to perfection.

DS has had SSS for years, Poser for months, but it is used more in poser because of those community efforts.

 

Bill

People that know everything by definition can not learn anything

Quote -

"If only Smith Micro would let Blackhearted, the Antonia crew and BB get together to make some kick ass native Poser figures featuring every single Poser enhancement and a slew of content to go with them,"

For such an undertaking SM should
$$pay$$ those people you named their full commercial rate under contract.

History (remember Luxpose???), has shown that such "Community projects" have the potential to quickly go down in flames when disagreements erupt amongst the volunteers.  

Cheers

I completely agree, Wolf.  I wouldn't expect anything less.  I honestly believe a figure made by such talented people and with the full backing of Smith Micro would go a long way to making people see there's more to life than DAZ.  I believe DAZ has thrived for so long in Poserdom because - and let's be perfectly honest here - there's really been no complete credible alternative when it came to human figures.  Every single one of the non DAZ figures has had something or other which prevented it being an across the board success in the way the various Victorias were.  Even V3 and V4 with their many and well documented faults were immensely popular.  SM need to do something to fill the gap now that DAZ isn't playing any more.

One exception to the community project rule you mentioned is Antonia but for various reasons that particular model doesn't seem set to take over from Victoria.  That's not a criticism of the figure, btw, just my opinion on how it seems from here.  I don't see a plethora of Antonia this/that/other everywhere, unlike Victoria.

 

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

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Quote - Studio 4 Pro is free no more, (I'm glad I stocked up ) and the free version at Download.com is seriously out of date, which affects the availibility of the free Genesis base to Poser users.  I wonder what the 4.1 update will cost?

Not that it's strictly relevant to this thread, but since you've brought it up - we have asked about the non-zero price on DS4Pro and apparently it's an error, they forgot the sale was due to expire last night.

Thanx, Richard.  Hopefully it slipped their minds because they're getting the new site ready...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Smith Micro is first and foremost a software company, not a content provider. Content Paradise is a brokerage like (but not on the same level) as Rendo.

With one key exception. Prior to the Smith Micro buyout of E-Frontier USA, They accepted entire stores. RDNA and Renderosity were linked in at one time. Now you see smaller brokerages like DDU and individual merchants.

I don't see Smith Micro investing all that much into content. Maybe to support the Latest Poser release, but even then we haven't seen as much innovation from them since Poser 7.

Also keep in mind that any innovation in Poser lately have been from the inclusion of Vendors such as Netherworks Studios, LittleFox, Sixus1, Vanishing Point, etc...

I would look to vendors such as those list above (and others) for more innovations. As for Genesis, jury is going to remain out for the time being.

Quote - I don't see Smith Micro investing all that much into content. Maybe to support the Latest Poser release, but even then we haven't seen as much innovation from them since Poser 7....

Check out some of Coop's and Diogenes' recent posts here...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Quote - > Quote - Studio 4 Pro is free no more, (I'm glad I stocked up ) and the free version at Download.com is seriously out of date, which affects the availibility of the free Genesis base to Poser users.  I wonder what the 4.1 update will cost?

Not that it's strictly relevant to this thread, but since you've brought it up - we have asked about the non-zero price on DS4Pro and apparently it's an error, they forgot the sale was due to expire last night.

No, it's still free, for... ever? :rolleyes: :laugh: 

The same "old" banner is in the last DAZ3D newsletter (May 4).

If this is an error... :huh: