flibbits opened this issue on May 10, 2012 · 72 posts
flibbits posted Thu, 10 May 2012 at 4:20 PM
I read a lot of mentions about weight mapped V4.
How is it better than plain V4 or V4.2?
Can I use it with existing morphs and clothes?
If I have a dialed V4 or V4.2 character can that be applied to a weight mapped V4?
Is it easy to use?
RobynsVeil posted Thu, 10 May 2012 at 4:50 PM
For any weight-mapped figure, you will need Poser 9 or PP2012.
For the rest of those questions, follow the link in my signature to PoserPlace. V4WM isn't just a weight-mapped version of V4, but a total re-rig as well. Which means she is much more light-weight (not magnet-dependent) and bends infinitely more naturally.
Trying her is painless: she's a free download. So is the Outfitter tool to convert V4-conforming clothing to V4WM conforming.
There are threads on here that discuss this at length...
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
Glitterati3D posted Thu, 10 May 2012 at 4:54 PM
Quote - I read a lot of mentions about weight mapped V4.
How is it better than plain V4 or V4.2?
Can I use it with existing morphs and clothes?
If I have a dialed V4 or V4.2 character can that be applied to a weight mapped V4?
Is it easy to use?
First, weightmapped V4 bends much more naturally. Especially without all those add-in morphs and magnets.
It's better because everything about the model is more like a natural human being.
All existing morphs and characters work with V4WM the same as V4.2 - nothing is different.
Clothing will need to be converted using the FREE Outfitter from PoserPlace so that it is weightmapped. The conversion process is simple and easy and transfers morphs, movement bones and everything else to weight mapping.
Shoes and hair are sometimes iffy and will simply need the Edit>Copy Joints from Figure to allow for a better fit on a weightmapped V4. Those are both hit and miss and will simply require you to test and determine which is the best solution.
I believe you can weightmap your morphed & saved V4, but I'm not certain. Since both scripts are free and easy to use, with lots of documentation and help here and at Poser Place, I'd suggest trying it and asking questions if you have any problems.
You may have to weight map a"plain" V4, then put your morphs back in, then save with your morphs applied.
Vestmann posted Thu, 10 May 2012 at 4:59 PM
To use V4WM you need to run your original V4/V4.2 through a script. Once that is done you can save the converted V4WM to you library. All morph and character packages work with V4WM.
V4WM has extra helper bones to make her bend better. That means that you need to run you original clothing through a conversion script as well. It works really fast and is quite easy to use. The script keeps all morphs in the clothing you can use all your texture packages etc. with the converted clothing.
I realise there is some preparation needed to use V4WM but the good news is that she's free as well as the Outfitter (used to convert clothing)
The greatest advantage of V4WM is better bending due to the weight mapping and extra helper bones as well as being able to use all your legacy content.
You can get V4WM here:
http://poserplace.phantom3d.net/V4.2WM/V4.2WM.html
And the Outifitter here:
http://poserplace.phantom3d.net/PP_Outfitter/pp_outfitter.html
There's also a huge thread about V4WM here:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2843300&page=1
Hope this helps.
Edit: Oops, crossposted there...
Anthanasius posted Thu, 10 May 2012 at 6:19 PM
They done a great job to convert V4 to WM, but there is too many problems with the shoes IMO, and i dont want to take the time to tweak more and more ...
Génération mobiles Le Forum / Le Site
hborre posted Thu, 10 May 2012 at 6:49 PM
I have run various morphs on V4WM ranging from different sizes through scales and she retains her natural bending abilities.
vholf posted Thu, 10 May 2012 at 6:51 PM
Yeah I've noticed the problem with the shoes too. Excluding the toes when converting does help a bit, but you inevitably have to make a lot of tweeks to make it work like the original.
The figure bends SO much better however, that I'm willing to go through the trouble, as much as I try, I cannot go back to the original V4 after trying the WM version, I simple can't...
Anthanasius posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 3:18 AM
It's an opinion ...
I took more time to match shoes than creating scene and rendering, i dont use her since ~2 mounth.
Génération mobiles Le Forum / Le Site
RobynsVeil posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 4:56 AM
Quote - It's an opinion ... I took more time to match shoes than creating scene and rendering, i dont use her since ~2 month.
This is what I mean about "consumers" and "products". Typical consumer mentality. Desole, mon vieux, c'est un peux ca.
Did you post about your concerns at PoserPlace?
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
Anthanasius posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 5:30 AM
Mon vieux ? Je ne crois pas que l'on ait élevé quoi que ce soit ensemble ...
First i dont launch negative critical, read all my post ...
"They done a great job to convert V4 to WM"
Second it's my opinion, free to share it ... I dont have time to loose about these details.
People are happy like this ? Well done, i'm not
Third, the "bug" is already at poserplace and fallen into oblivion since M4WM and no real solution.
That's all folks
Génération mobiles Le Forum / Le Site
RobynsVeil posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 5:57 AM
So, you brought it up at PoserPlace?
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
RobynsVeil posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 6:12 AM
Quote - Mon vieux ? Je ne crois pas que l'on ait élevé quoi que ce soit ensemble ...
Un peux sensible, tu n' croix pas? > Quote - First i dont launch negative critical, read all my post ...
What exactly then was the point of "I haven't used xxx for 2+ mounths"? > Quote - Second it's my opinion, free to share it ... I dont have time to lose about these details.
I'm no longer involved in that project, so I have nil emotional attachment to it. The reason I responded to this at all is because once again, instead of contributing to a solution, people offer purely negative "opinions"... a quoi bon? No purpose at all.
Quote - People are happy like this ? Well done, i'm not. Third, the "bug" is already at poserplace and fallen into oblivion since M4WM and no real solution.
Which is the MAIN reason I've abdicated from this sad little society that demands and demands even from freebie developers instead of jumping in and trying to help. It's so easy to criticise. It's quite a different thing to try to help.
This is a FREEBIE, folks. It's ours. Make it better. Don't slam it.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
Anthanasius posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 6:29 AM
Bejaymac posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 7:14 AM
Welcome to an issue us DS4 users have had since autofit was launched.
The shoes themselves are the problem, many of them were not built around V4's zero'd foot pose, so changing the rig to V4WM (or Genesis) means they will never conform properly. You either need to create a new .OBJ after posing the shoe so it fits V4's zero'd pose and then rig that mesh, or turn them into props and lose the rigging.
MistyLaraCarrara posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 8:49 AM
i so much prefer smart prop shoes :wub:
if the conforming shoes load separately, figure parent is an option.
♥ My Gallery Albums ♥ My YT ♥ Party in the CarrarArtists Forum ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff
WandW posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 11:28 AM
Quote - Welcome to an issue us DS4 users have had since autofit was launched.
The shoes themselves are the problem, many of them were not built around V4's zero'd foot pose, so changing the rig to V4WM (or Genesis) means they will never conform properly. You either need to create a new .OBJ after posing the shoe so it fits V4's zero'd pose and then rig that mesh, or turn them into props and lose the rigging.
Indeed. Also some shoes are only rigged with foot and toe actors, so the conversion messes up the shoes' alignment at the ankle joints, since there is no ankle joint in the shoe to convert...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
WandW posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 11:39 AM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
hornet3d posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 3:38 PM
I have been using V4WM from the first week she was available and would not go back. The only problem I have had with shoes I have been able to solve using toe bend, but then I sometimes had to do this with V4. Maybe I have been lucky with the shoes I have chosen.
When using Outfitter I do exclude the left and right toe when converting footware. I have found outfitter to be easy to use and it has worked well with everything I have tried, with the exception of something that produced for V3 converted to V4 (Xdresser) and then V4WM . Not really surprised that it did not work as it was asking a lot but you don't know if you don't try. If I purchase new content the first thing I do is run it through outfitter.
I would be more than happy to have paid for both V4WM and outfitter and I have had more problems with content and scripts I have purchased than either of these freebies.
The Poser team did a great job and then gave it to the community for free. It may not suit everyone's way of working or be to everyone's taste it is free to try and decide for yourself. Much better to find out if it suits you than just take the word of someone who dislikes it for whatever reason. Mind you, that is not restricted to Poser, I would have missed so many good films if I had listened to others or relied purely on the reviews.
Finally I have no connection with the Poser Team other than forever being in their debt for bringing new life to V4.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
Glitterati3D posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 4:40 PM
Quote - I have been using V4WM from the first week she was available and would not go back. The only problem I have had with shoes I have been able to solve using toe bend, but then I sometimes had to do this with V4. Maybe I have been lucky with the shoes I have chosen.
When using Outfitter I do exclude the left and right toe when converting footware. I have found outfitter to be easy to use and it has worked well with everything I have tried, with the exception of something that produced for V3 converted to V4 (Xdresser) and then V4WM . Not really surprised that it did not work as it was asking a lot but you don't know if you don't try. If I purchase new content the first thing I do is run it through outfitter.
I would be more than happy to have paid for both V4WM and outfitter and I have had more problems with content and scripts I have purchased than either of these freebies.
The Poser team did a great job and then gave it to the community for free. It may not suit everyone's way of working or be to everyone's taste it is free to try and decide for yourself. Much better to find out if it suits you than just take the word of someone who dislikes it for whatever reason. Mind you, that is not restricted to Poser, I would have missed so many good films if I had listened to others or relied purely on the reviews.
Finally I have no connection with the Poser Team other than forever being in their debt for bringing new life to V4.
I'm sure you mean the Poser Place team, right? Poser certainly provided the capability to weight map a figure, but it was all Poser Place who made the WM figures (V4 & Antonia) available, as well as Outfitter to convert clothing.
moriador posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 4:44 PM
Quote - This is a FREEBIE, folks. It's ours. Make it better. Don't slam it.
What this sounds like is: If you don't have the technical skills to fix a problem ("make it better"), then don't offer any critique ("don't slam it").
To say, this item has a flaw, so I don't use it, is not slamming it.
If one were to say, just as an example, "It sucks, the bending is awful, and the figure looks like a blow-up doll!" -- THAT is slamming it.
Yes, the item is free. DS4 and Genesis are free too, and yet we're encouraged to "slam" them. Why? Free or not, when something is marketed that hard, it raises expectations, and if those expectations are not met, people respond vocally, as is their right.
PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.
shvrdavid posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 5:21 PM
There is a fix for the shoe issues that have toe joints and that do not transfer properly. It was addressed, looked at, experimented with, and a fix for it was posted. The thread appears to have been archived.
It is not something that could be included with the conversion simply because there are just to many differences in the sizes of the zones needed to do all of the shoes that are out there.
The problem is that the joint zone on V4 toes are not large enough to reach all of the shoe.
Here is what you need to do to shoes with toe joints that do not convert properly.
Select the V4's foot, bend it until the joint shows a problem. 40 degrees up should cover most of the problem.
Select the shoes toe joint.
Open the joint editor, tweak the zones a little bit.
3a. Depending on the shoe, it depends on what you have to do to the joint to correct for it. Sometimes simply scaling the inner and out zones will do it, other times you have to do a little more to it and move the affect angles a little bit, move the center a bit, etc. I all just comes down to the shape of the shoe, and how much of it is outside of the original toe joint zone.
Repeat this on the other shoe, do not use the mirror symmetry command to do the other side.
Resave the shoes.
It would have been nice if there was one fix for all the shoes, but there is not one.
The same process can be used on gloves as well.
Hope this helps...
Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->
shvrdavid posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 5:38 PM
On step one, select the toe, edit timer expired....
Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->
RobynsVeil posted Fri, 11 May 2012 at 6:11 PM
Corrections and upbraiding taken aboard. Good point, Moriador. Please accept my apologies, Anthanasius.
Monterey/Mint21.x/Win10 - Blender3.x - PP11.3(cm) - Musescore3.6.2
Wir sind gewohnt, daß die Menschen verhöhnen was sie nicht verstehen
[it is clear that humans have contempt for that which they do not understand]
hornet3d posted Sat, 12 May 2012 at 5:37 AM
I'm sure you mean the Poser Place team, right? Poser certainly provided the capability to weight map a figure, but it was all Poser Place who made the WM figures (V4 & Antonia) available, as well as Outfitter to convert clothing.
Thanks Glitterati3D,
I do, of course, mean the Poser Place team. Serves me right for responding without letting my knee jerk reaction subside. When anyone puts in so much work and then gives it away for free I feel that peple should be grateful. If it is not for them, so be it, we all want different things from life, but we should also encourage others to use it and see if it is for them. To me that is at least a way of making sure that all the hard work gets maximum exposure, something I am sure the Poser Team would want also.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
hornet3d posted Sat, 12 May 2012 at 5:42 AM
"DS4 and Genesis are free too, and yet we're encouraged to "slam" them."
Not sure where this encouragement came from but I wish they would stop. I would much rather read a theard that helps me improve my use of Poser than have to pull the odd useful post from the reams of all the ones slamming either Poser or Daz.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
vilters posted Sat, 12 May 2012 at 7:22 AM
I absolutely have no clue why anybody would want to "rig" shoes/boots.
Take a shoe, boot, position it over the foot/toe, and save it as a "smart" prop of the foot with inherit bends checked ON.
The shoe/boot will follow all movements of the shin, foot, and toe's.
A "smart" prop will follow all movements one group up and one group down.
Same for "smart' propping hair.
Smart prop it to the neck, and it will follow all movement of the head, neck and collars.
The group it is parented to plus; One group up, and one group down.
Why make simple things so complicated?????
KISS never fails. :-)
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
Glitterati3D posted Sat, 12 May 2012 at 8:20 AM
Quote - I absolutely have no clue why anybody would want to "rig" shoes/boots.
Take a shoe, boot, position it over the foot/toe, and save it as a "smart" prop of the foot with inherit bends checked ON.
The shoe/boot will follow all movements of the shin, foot, and toe's.
A "smart" prop will follow all movements one group up and one group down.
Same for "smart' propping hair.
Smart prop it to the neck, and it will follow all movement of the head, neck and collars.The group it is parented to plus; One group up, and one group down.
Why make simple things so complicated?????
KISS never fails. :-)
Now, isn't that funny? Because I hate, hate, hate prop shoes. You know why? Because there's 2. 2 feet. 2 shoes. 2 loads. 2 texture changes. 2 morph the foot in the the correct position. Double the work. PITA for a stupid pair of shoes.
Glitterati3D posted Sat, 12 May 2012 at 8:24 AM
Quote - I'm sure you mean the Poser Place team, right? Poser certainly provided the capability to weight map a figure, but it was all Poser Place who made the WM figures (V4 & Antonia) available, as well as Outfitter to convert clothing.
Quote - Thanks Glitterati3D, I do, of course, mean the Poser Place team. Serves me right for responding without letting my knee jerk reaction subside. When anyone puts in so much work and then gives it away for free I feel that peple should be grateful. If it is not for them, so be it, we all want different things from life, but we should also encourage others to use it and see if it is for them. To me that is at least a way of making sure that all the hard work gets maximum exposure, something I am sure the Poser Team would want also.
You're welcome. I don't even use the non-weight mapped figures anymore. Weight mapping adds so much to a figure, it's a waste of time to fight with a figure rigged the old way.
Regardless of free or not, we OWE those creators the respect and kudos for stepping up and going the extra mile.
meatSim posted Sat, 12 May 2012 at 11:14 AM
Off Topic but, that didn't work for me.. at least not with hair. Any movement of the head sent verts all over the place
>>Edit<< seems to be an issue with weightmapping. What you suggest works fine with standard rigging but on antonia WM it turns into a big mess of spikes. I imagine the weights all spanning across different actors confuses the inherit bends feature.
That being said I have to agree. the smart prop method works really well for shoes on standard rigging. Aside from the problem that Antonia has that extra instep group which means that if you have a boot that covers the shin as well you will not get any toe bend from the figure
Quote - I absolutely have no clue why anybody would want to "rig" shoes/boots.
Take a shoe, boot, position it over the foot/toe, and save it as a "smart" prop of the foot with inherit bends checked ON.
The shoe/boot will follow all movements of the shin, foot, and toe's.
A "smart" prop will follow all movements one group up and one group down.
Same for "smart' propping hair.
Smart prop it to the neck, and it will follow all movement of the head, neck and collars.The group it is parented to plus; One group up, and one group down.
Why make simple things so complicated?????
KISS never fails. :-)
shvrdavid posted Sat, 12 May 2012 at 10:12 PM
Using the copy joint zones from command tranfers the joint center and the weight maps to the hair, which is not what you want.
To convert the hair, all you want is the joint info (without the maps) to transfer.
For conforming hair.
Load and conform the hair onto V4WM, then run the attached pose file on the conforming hair to change just the joint info on the hip, abs, chest, collars, neck, and head of the hair.
Your done.
Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->
ErickL88 posted Sun, 13 May 2012 at 3:55 AM
Thanks for this lil pose file, shvrdavid, very use ful.
Even tho, since using V4WM almost entirely nowadays, I used to just parent the hair figures to the head or neck of V4WM, which is/was a good method for me as well.
So now I can conform again =)
martial posted Sun, 13 May 2012 at 3:49 PM
Bonjour
I am a beginner using V4 WM and discover the excellent poserplaceoutfiuier this week end
I have some poses for WM version
Are regular poses for v4 fits for V4WM version?
Thanks
hornet3d posted Sun, 13 May 2012 at 3:52 PM
Quote - Bonjour
I am a beginner using V4 WM and discover the excellent poserplaceoutfiuier this week end
I have some poses for WM version
Are regular poses for v4 fits for V4WM version?
Thanks
I find almost all my poses for the standard V4 work with V4WM. I have had to tweak the odd one a bit but nothing major.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
martial posted Sun, 13 May 2012 at 4:37 PM
Thanks hornet3d for your quick reply
hornet3d posted Mon, 14 May 2012 at 3:38 AM
Quote - Thanks hornet3d for your quick reply
Your welcome, I hope you enjoy using V4WM, I have used nothing else since this version was available.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
ghosty12 posted Tue, 15 May 2012 at 1:47 AM
Quote - There is a fix for the shoe issues that have toe joints and that do not transfer properly. It was addressed, looked at, experimented with, and a fix for it was posted. The thread appears to have been archived.
It is not something that could be included with the conversion simply because there are just to many differences in the sizes of the zones needed to do all of the shoes that are out there.
The problem is that the joint zone on V4 toes are not large enough to reach all of the shoe.
Here is what you need to do to shoes with toe joints that do not convert properly.
Select the V4's foot, bend it until the joint shows a problem. 40 degrees up should cover most of the problem.
Select the shoes toe joint.
Open the joint editor, tweak the zones a little bit.
3a. Depending on the shoe, it depends on what you have to do to the joint to correct for it. Sometimes simply scaling the inner and out zones will do it, other times you have to do a little more to it and move the affect angles a little bit, move the center a bit, etc. I all just comes down to the shape of the shoe, and how much of it is outside of the original toe joint zone.
Repeat this on the other shoe, do not use the mirror symmetry command to do the other side.
Resave the shoes.
It would have been nice if there was one fix for all the shoes, but there is not one.
The same process can be used on gloves as well.
Hope this helps...
Cool thank you for this as I few shoe sets I have are a major pain in the rear even after converting.
You know you enjoy 3D Art when you realize that your life is a piece of 3D Art. :)
AMD 7900X3D, 64 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5 Ram, Asus Prime X670-P Wifi MB, PNY RTX 4070Ti Super 16GB, 14TB SSD's & HDD, Windows 11, Poser 9 / Pro 2012 / Pro 2014, Daz Studio 4.22.
moogal posted Thu, 17 May 2012 at 3:34 PM
Quote - Now, isn't that funny? Because I hate, hate, hate prop shoes. You know why? Because there's 2. 2 feet. 2 shoes. 2 loads. 2 texture changes. 2 morph the foot in the the correct position. Double the work. PITA for a stupid pair of shoes.
But the work you have to do is still far less time consuming than would be required to rig a stupid pair of shoes.
What if you want one shoe on and one shoe off?
WandW posted Thu, 17 May 2012 at 4:33 PM
Quote - What if you want one shoe on and one shoe off?
Make one invisible... 
I find that inherit bends only works if the prop is modeled to fit the figure's zeroed toe postion, but I'd love to be proven wrong...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
moogal posted Thu, 17 May 2012 at 6:07 PM
Non conforming shoes also have the advantage of working on figures besides just those they share rigging with.
I have always wished for a type fo clothing that could conform without rigging, just by following the underlying mesh. I don't collect figures and wardrobes, so it was always annoying to find that I had the right article of clothing, but which was not designed for the figure I wished to put it on...
Glitterati3D posted Thu, 17 May 2012 at 7:41 PM
Quote - > Quote - Now, isn't that funny? Because I hate, hate, hate prop shoes. You know why? Because there's 2. 2 feet. 2 shoes. 2 loads. 2 texture changes. 2 morph the foot in the the correct position. Double the work. PITA for a stupid pair of shoes.
But the work you have to do is still far less time consuming than would be required to rig a stupid pair of shoes.
What if you want one shoe on and one shoe off?
I don't find it any less time consuming to rig prop shoes over conforming. And, the time savings for the end user is worth every second. To me, anyway.
As for the one shoe on, the reply above covers it.
moogal posted Fri, 18 May 2012 at 1:54 AM
Quote - I don't find it any less time consuming to rig prop shoes over conforming. And, the time savings for the end user is worth every second. To me, anyway.
As for the one shoe on, the reply above covers it.
Just thinking of the times I had to turn conforming shoes into prop shoes because they were designed to conform to a different figure than the one I was trying to use them with...
As far as one shoe goes, aside from being in jest, it really isn't much harder to copy/paste materials from one to another than to hide one shoe in the heirarchy, but then I have to remember that we might not all use the same approach or know every feature to the same degree. I am always forgetting the whole vendor/user aspect of things... If I were selling content I would always try to consider what the majority of my market preferred using. Just didn't see the time lost in using one method over the other because I was thinking of my own usage and not that of customers.
I would more likely buy an item that worked with all of my figures than one that only worked with V4 (or whoever is popular this week) just to save a step or two when using. But I don't buy much anyway, so of course I prefer things that are versatile enough to work however after some tweaking. I suppose if I were buying an item I would just want it to work immediately.
vilters posted Fri, 18 May 2012 at 5:17 AM
Everybody has their own workflow.
I prefer to the foot Smart propped shoes ha-ha-ha-, as I hate rigging. :-(
For loading just you can select them both at once in Poser9/PP2012 for drag drop on a figure.
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
"Do not drive
faster then your angel can fly"!
Boni posted Thu, 30 March 2017 at 4:10 PM
For the new folks out there using V4-WM, I am bumping this thread to the top to help you all out! thank you ShvrDAvid!
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
estherau posted Fri, 31 March 2017 at 5:37 AM
there is another weightmapped V4 at ourRenderforever website that doesn't require special outfitter to make the clothes fit.
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
SamTherapy posted Fri, 31 March 2017 at 10:13 AM
Have both, use both. Each has their merits and drawbacks. I'm grateful to all involved in their creation.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
estherau posted Fri, 31 March 2017 at 9:27 PM
I think the elbow bends shape of the tip are a drawback in both versions sadly.
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
Cage posted Sat, 01 April 2017 at 12:20 PM
I was away from Poser when RDNA shut down. Does anyone know if the Poser Place V4~WM, Outfitter, and other projects are currently available anywhere? If they aren't, those of us from the team who are still in the community should figure out where we can post them.
===========================sigline======================================================
Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.
Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.
Helos posted Sun, 02 April 2017 at 1:06 PM
PoserPlace's Outfitter is here:
https://www.adh3d.com/PoserPlaceOutfitter.html
Found no other V4/M4 WMs unless estherau's suggestion.
Henning
Cage posted Sun, 02 April 2017 at 2:30 PM
I've gone ahead and uploaded V4~WM to my site at Morphography:
http://www.morphography.uk.vu/~cagepage/poserplace/poserplace.html
This page is not yet available from the index in my sigline.
===========================sigline======================================================
Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.
Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.
adh3d posted Mon, 03 April 2017 at 7:15 AM
If anyone needs a place to put their freebies, just tell me, I will store the files and will do a page in my site for it. 
WandW posted Mon, 03 April 2017 at 10:00 AM
Here are the Poser Place V4WM, Outfitter, a hair reffitter pose and Cage's Weight Pose Maker script that I had grabbed from the old Poser Place site...
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9_I3V6UTuuXcGlDMkdYVVhtd3c
If anyone wants to host them in a more visible location, please do! 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
Cage posted Mon, 03 April 2017 at 1:23 PM
We gave all of the actual Poser Place releases very open licenses, so I think anyone can re-host the items, if they so desire. As far as anything I personally posted there goes, it can be re-posted however you like, whether your download includes a license or not.
@adhd3d: If you would like to set up a Poser Place page, that would be great! I don't think there's any great demand for the PP stuff these days, but it's good to keep it available.
@WandW: I can't figure out how to download your file locker items. It looks like they should all be included in the set of zip files I uploaded at Morphography, but... I'm guessing, as I'm not sure what you have there.
===========================sigline======================================================
Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.
Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.
Boni posted Tue, 04 April 2017 at 6:40 AM
Thank you everyone! This is all such great help!!
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
WandW posted Tue, 04 April 2017 at 10:51 AM
Cage posted at 11:45AM Tue, 04 April 2017 - #4301429
@WandW: I can't figure out how to download your file locker items. It looks like they should all be included in the set of zip files I uploaded at Morphography, but... I'm guessing, as I'm not sure what you have there.
Hi Cage,
To download them, if you mouse over the block for each file, a download icon should appear at the top left corner of the block. From left to right (on my browser) are:
Outfitter (on your Morphography page)
shvrdavid's hair fitting pose,
V4WM (on your Morphography page)
and your Weight Pose Maker script (the 11/23/11 version)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
RobZhena posted Sun, 09 April 2017 at 2:39 PM
estherau posted at 3:38PM Sun, 09 April 2017 - #4300984
there is another weightmapped V4 at ourRenderforever website that doesn't require special outfitter to make the clothes fit.
Thank for this, Esther! She's great and much simpler than the other version.
shante posted Thu, 13 April 2017 at 5:27 PM
vilters posted at 5:25PM Thu, 13 April 2017 - #3927545
I absolutely have no clue why anybody would want to "rig" shoes/boots.
Take a shoe, boot, position it over the foot/toe, and save it as a "smart" prop of the foot with inherit bends checked ON.
The shoe/boot will follow all movements of the shin, foot, and toe's.
A "smart" prop will follow all movements one group up and one group down.
Same for "smart' propping hair.
Smart prop it to the neck, and it will follow all movement of the head, neck and collars.The group it is parented to plus; One group up, and one group down.
Why make simple things so complicated?????
KISS never fails. :-)
Damn did NOT know you could do that. I have been parenting hair and clothes items for say V2 or V3 to V4 head or cheat or whatever not knowing it was a part up and part down that would work better. Thanks for the insight!
Too Soon Old, too late Shmart! 
shante posted Thu, 13 April 2017 at 5:37 PM
Cage posted at 5:36PM Thu, 13 April 2017 - #4301182
I was away from Poser when RDNA shut down. Does anyone know if the Poser Place V4~WM, Outfitter, and other projects are currently available anywhere? If they aren't, those of us from the team who are still in the community should figure out where we can post them.
Cage I know there is also a WM V4 at Renderotica and I think also a WM Antonia there. BTW What ever happened to Antonia after RDNA Closed? She disappeared from the Poserverse w/o a mention. Too bad. She was a nice figure.
Cage posted Fri, 14 April 2017 at 5:57 PM
shante posted at 5:45PM Fri, 14 April 2017 - #4302489
Cage posted at 5:36PM Thu, 13 April 2017 - #4301182
I was away from Poser when RDNA shut down. Does anyone know if the Poser Place V4~WM, Outfitter, and other projects are currently available anywhere? If they aren't, those of us from the team who are still in the community should figure out where we can post them.
Cage I know there is also a WM V4 at Renderotica and I think also a WM Antonia there. BTW What ever happened to Antonia after RDNA Closed? She disappeared from the Poserverse w/o a mention. Too bad. She was a nice figure.
RDNA closed the Antonia forum a couple of years ago, IIRC. The figure has been in decline for some time. I think BlueEcho (now Faery Light) has reopened the Antonia Free Site at a new location, so most of the add-ons and textures are still available, if you can find them.
I think people found Antonia hard to work with, with all of the JCMs to accommodate in clothing. Another frequent complaint seemed to be that the face is not as attractive out-of-the-box as with other figures. Folks didn't like that nose. But I use the figure extensively. DieTrying has a couple of excellent free morph sets for Antonia at ShareCG. One of these days, maybe I'll release the Antonia-WM characters I've been working with. I'm fighting with cape and hair dynamics, today, as shown in the attached image.
I had forgotten that some of the Poser Place stuff was put up at Rotica. Wow. So it's still up, somewhere!
===========================sigline======================================================
Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.
Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.
shante posted Fri, 14 April 2017 at 11:05 PM
Not sure if I already read this here...brain leak...but canWMV4 also use the 3d party morphs like those like Perfect V4 Set or Meipe or Corva's body fix sets, or Posermatic NGM or NBM or NPM for say Reby Sky? And can the WMV4 be used to create stuff for G4 or A4 and S4 movements. I was just thinking of using the figure when I need extreme body movements and not bother with difficult clothes which have always been a P.I.T.A. for me to work with since they hardly EVER conform properly on the standard V4++ anyway.
Cage posted Sat, 15 April 2017 at 11:40 AM
I'm not absolutely certain -- it's been five years, and I don't use V4 for anything -- but I think both Phantom3D and Nerd took care to preserve the existing joint centers and orientations when they weight-mapped their versions. If those haven't changed, V4~WM should be able to use and save poses compatible with unweighted V4. I assume that's what you mean by movements, poses and animations?
The V4 mesh wasn't changed by any of the weight-mapping projects (that was forbidden by DAZ), so all shaping morphs should still work as before. Since the joints have been changed from zone-mapping to weight-mapping, JCMs or other joint-corrective morphs may no longer work, but ideally the weighting revisions make those irrelevant anyway.
===========================sigline======================================================
Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.
Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.
shante posted Sat, 15 April 2017 at 11:49 AM
THANKS FOR SOME CLARITY ON THIS.
Nails60 posted Sat, 15 April 2017 at 2:29 PM
You can download Antonia from ADH3D's site, and there is a link there to the Antonia site.
WandW posted Mon, 17 April 2017 at 7:38 AM
Poses need to be adjusted for the Poser Place V4WM, but I believe they do not for the other ones.
If using Outfitter to fit shoes to V4WM, deselect the toe actors, or the shoe will be distorted when conformed. The toes aren't weightmapped anyway...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
shante posted Mon, 17 April 2017 at 3:52 PM
Will be working with a new unannounced WMV4 Figure for a while so I am going to waylay getting involved with the others out there for now but thanks all for the info and helpful leads.
VolcanicMink posted Sat, 27 May 2017 at 4:49 PM
vilters posted at 6:45PM Sat, 27 May 2017 - #3927545
I absolutely have no clue why anybody would want to "rig" shoes/boots.
Take a shoe, boot, position it over the foot/toe, and save it as a "smart" prop of the foot with inherit bends checked ON.
The shoe/boot will follow all movements of the shin, foot, and toe's.
A "smart" prop will follow all movements one group up and one group down.
Same for "smart' propping hair.
Smart prop it to the neck, and it will follow all movement of the head, neck and collars.The group it is parented to plus; One group up, and one group down.
Why make simple things so complicated?????
KISS never fails. :-)
Just now happened upon this Vilters, and the answer is: Because that's where the tutorials led us and no one ever told us differently. Thank you so much for posting this! I can begin to regrow some of my hair now!
shante posted Sat, 27 May 2017 at 7:11 PM
If that is the KISS'n truth then why re there so many shoes made as conformers as well as so many hair props? Personally I hate working with many conforming anything which is probably why I leave most of my figures naked even it it get boring. Occasionally a pair of shapes or hair. I can simply parent will work with. Shit old of rigging but it gets old quick if the figures need to be repsositioned for a series. I hav hundreds of dollars invested in conforming clothes accessories and hair I hate using and positioning many .cr2 figures ca be just as big a pin in the butt is trying to get conforming objects to work they way they were supposedly made to work. No real easy solution just what pain in the butt you are willing to tolerate!
wolf359 posted Sun, 28 May 2017 at 8:34 AM
"I absolutely have no clue why anybody would want to "rig" shoes/boots. Take a shoe, boot, position it over the foot/toe, and save it as a "smart" prop of the foot with inherit bends checked ON. The shoe/boot will follow all movements of the shin, foot, and toe's. A "smart" prop will follow all movements one group up and one group down."
What about people who want dressed figures morphed differently from the default shapes?
Some poser users create comics,Sci fi.Fantasy etc featuring heavily muscled males or voluptuous women wearing clothing.
I pretty sure the "Copy morphs from" feature of poser would not work for a smart propped ,over the calf boot of a muscled up Hero Character. So yes ,there remains very valid reasons to have footwear (particularly boots)as conformers.
shante posted Mon, 29 May 2017 at 11:43 AM
Works fine if you are using pumps or flats. But, when using boots it is a whole other matter. You have toe, foot, shin, thigh to deal withandI have tried your suggestions and any others offered and it is a paininthe arse trying to get around.
Same issue whenusingconforminghairfor onefigureona lther figure. Sometimes the chests the base, sometimes the neck and almost never the head. Oh, it's easy to parent the head of the hair to the character's head but if you need to adjust flow of longhair or other
poseable functions it starts to jump off the head like a cat on a hot tin roof!
Again, a pain the arse.
No need to even discuss conforming clothes! ;P
Body shapes are too another curse. Many third party creators do not always take in the full range of body morphs using the ++ functions to to mention extra body morphs for specialized body shapes and movements.
6Yep, another pain the arse.
Naked figures is definitely easier!
wolf359 posted Mon, 29 May 2017 at 5:12 PM
And if you are doing an animation Static parented props are a No go entirely.
shante posted Tue, 30 May 2017 at 11:31 AM
Point. I don't. But I don't have the freaking patience jury rigging a vow prop onto a mac truck for a scene in a series just to turn around to get another view and res crunch it all over again. I wish I knew how to use the more advanced tools in Poser to make all tha shit easier for myself but as you know dude WAY beyond me now. In fact I jhave not been able to do anything poser since May 3, 2 days before my birthday my laptop overheated and shut down. Attempts to restart failed. Buying a new one is not an option now not to mention the freaking loss of stuff on the laptop. Then 3 days later got a bad case of diverticulitis and have been on massive antibiotics since. As I was returning from gastroenterologist en route to go to get cat scans, some son of a bitch used my car stopped at a light as his personal brake pad and ran into me w/o stopping. Dumb old fuck was on a phone. Of course no cops to be found and I had to go get my emergence scans done. The insurance found my 14 year old car with only 61,000+ miles on it totaled. Oh they will fix it but won't be able to allow me to get collision coverage when they rebuild it. Been eating mush and liquid diet all month, have nothing to do all day long except practice my freaking typing skills on this worthless iPad and can't stop hoping no more shoes drop. Happy freaking birthday to me m'fckr!
wolf359 posted Tue, 30 May 2017 at 12:59 PM
Sorry to hear about this massive string of catastrophic events Carm. Your macbook has died??
Did you get any insurance info on the driver that hit you or did he make a clean get away??
shante posted Tue, 30 May 2017 at 5:20 PM
Reading some info on-line it seems the MacBook has a function that shuts the system down when it overheats to protect components. I tried restarting it right away but apparently it must not have yet been completely cooled off enough to work. Have not tried refiring it yet. Too much stress and not enough brain cells to slog through it. Heavily medicated for pain and infection and the freaking hives I got to deal with as bad reaction to the strong mess, I am sleeping all day. Getting better and hope to soon stop these mixed poisons. Gotta get better at doing freaking back-ups dude. Still can not get myself disciplined enough to do that on a regular basis so I wind up going insane worrying about LOSS of important stuff and that is why I still haven't been able to sit and work on it. Aside from no mind to do it yet, choked with fear everything is gone! The guy had an insurance card that indicated it had expired in 2014 but his assurance he was covered were correct. As soon as I got home I called and he was right so thank God I am covered. But, as I said his will cover all damages -to be completely repaired with new side panels, trunk base, trunk Hood, bumper, lights and all related electrical including rental car until all is made right. But despite it being brought to almost new original state from rear window back I will still not be able to get collision coverage so next time I might need it I'm SOL. BAD MONTH DUDE!
