Soft Body breast effects without handlers, morphs - pure softbody dynamics.

how can it be, that we still not can do this in poser?

these dynamics are possible in all the games of today.

where are these dynamics in poser world?

You've been around for ten years and haven't found an app that you can import Poser content and apply your softbody dynamics to. What's with you for asking?

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

as a long time Poser person who would dearly love true soft-body dynamics, I agree with any inquiry, request or work-around.

However, an "attitude" is not really welcome.

This program started out as a simple way to pose a stick model in 3d. It is now magnificent, for $400 or on sale.

So be more respectful, OP.

::::: Opera :::::

Some use the cloth room to good effect.

jigglenamics?

danglienamics?

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PhilC,

Your comment interests me a great deal. Can you elaborate on how you do it?

Or? Can be done with a magnet.

Load your figure.
Load a magnet on the group you want to squeeze.

=> You can add more groups if needed.

Center the magnet on the wall (or floor) in the area to be touched.
=> PhilC has very good tutorials on magnets on his site.

Make the MagZone VERY LARGE in X and Y; Say 5000
Make the MagZone only 1 to 2 deep in Z.
Put the magnet just forward of the MagBase in Z .
The MagZone should be HALF in front of the wall in Z.

The MagZone should now be a huge circle paralell to the wall. But very small in Z, say about 1 to 2 inch.

Leave all as is.

When your figure comes close to the wall (or floor) the selected groups will come under the influence of the Magnet as she comes in the MagZone.

And breasts will squeeze.

Takes some experimenting, but doable.

The Magnet and the MagnetZone do nothing to your figure, unless the selected groups come under the influence of the MagZone.

Att: Positioning is very sensitive, and YES, you can go too far and overrun the MagnetZone.

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Quote - Soft Body breast effects without handlers, morphs - pure softbody dynamics.

how can it be, that we still not can do this in poser?

these dynamics are possible in all the games of today.

where are these dynamics in poser world?

Simple answer to your first question:

Poser is an entry level, hobbyist app at a very low price. It can do remarkable things for the money and exceeds its original remit by several orders of magnitude.

As for games, they're optimized for a particular set of systems and generally use low poly models. Poser has to work with high density meshes on a wide variety of systems.

Bottom line is, pay more money for a higher end app and you'll get all the soft body dynamics you want. At Poser's price point, it'll be a while in coming.

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Yes PhilC, I am also curious how you can use the cloth room to create this affect.

Just clothify the part in question and set up a small animation to allow it to bump against something.

Although that could be made to work I'm a great believer in the KISS principle so if I needed to do this I would almost certainly use magnets.

Quote - Yes PhilC, I am also curious how you can use the cloth room to create this affect.

I read somewhere that bodies / body parts can be clothified as a prop, so I also would like to learn how to do it.

(Cross post with Phil C.)

I'll give it a try. I'm with the rest of the group. So far, magnets have given me the most realistic effects.

One more question PhilC out of the three choices

1 object vertex against cloth polygon

2 object polygon against cloth polygon

3 cloth self colision

which one would you want to select, for the part in question?

Thanks

I usually start with just cloth self colision then only add the other options if required.

Quote - You've been around for ten years and haven't found an app that you can import Poser content and apply your softbody dynamics to. What's with you for asking?

Well, I haven't. I'd want it to import without losing morphs, have support for dynamic hair and cloth, while letting me add soft bodies to existing figures without re-rigging or weight mapping. Are there really that many to choose from? Are any under $1000? I know neither blender or Carrara yet meet the above criteria.

Quote - Simple answer to your first question:

Poser is an entry level, hobbyist app at a very low price. It can do remarkable things for the money and exceeds its original remit by several orders of magnitude.

OK, then how about Poser Professional, which lists for $499. Surely a professional program that exists solely to render figures should have some kind of soft body physics by now. Why is everyone so quick to defend this glaring omission of the program?

Quote - As for games, they're optimized for a particular set of systems and generally use low poly models. Poser has to work with high density meshes on a wide variety of systems.

Bottom line is, pay more money for a higher end app and you'll get all the soft body dynamics you want. At Poser's price point, it'll be a while in coming.

It already has been a while. They could just do what Daz did with Carrara, and use bullet. They could use a spring solver like Reallusion did with iClone...

Then again, I'm equally surprised no one from the community has tackled it either. I'd hoped PoserPhysics would have provided a way, perhaps using magnets. There are jello-magnets, but that limits motion to the morphs a part has (and I've never really had much luck with that either).

I really hope there's some attempt at providing a solution in the next version, I can't think of anything more important left to add at this point.

jiggly breasts aren't the top things i'd like to find in next poser. not even jiggly testicals.

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Quote - jiggly breasts aren't the top things i'd like to find in next poser. not even jiggly testicals.

EEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW...

Quote - jiggly breasts aren't the top things i'd like to find in next poser.

??? Huh ??? :huh:

What could be better than jiggly breasts? P.S.
I'm not joking, or being ironic. I'm serious!

Realistsic gravtiy based movements for animation purposes would be nice as a standard feature. Not sure how it would work for a static shot unless we just click "Use Gravity" in the options list and it auto adjusts like it does for "Drop to Floor."

I have a very early version (more a "proof of concept" really) of a soft body dynamics simulation system up and running. In general, soft body dynamics will apply to a prop (ie. a "Square Hi-Res" can be simulated as a ship's sail, or a "Ball Hi-Res" can be simulated as a "squishy" ball, box will deform when it hits the ground). Soft body dynamics does not easily translate to a figure, since a figure is made up of many polygon groups, so it is not a simply solution to put the whole geometry into the simulator.

So in summary, I don't think "Soft body dynamics" is really the solution to jiggly bits on figures - it solves other needs.

IMO, you would be far better off simply keyframe animating this type of effect for figures.

Soft Body breast effects without handlers, morphs - pure softbody dynamics. how can it be, that we still not can do this in poser? these dynamics are possible in all the games of today.

Could you pls provide a link showing a game which implements soft body breast effects?

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Frankly, I didn't see anything in the text or the tone of the question that merited the reaction, but whatever. It's not exactly like saying, 'The King is a fink!' I agree with Moogal that given the nature of the program, SBD is would be something that I would have expected (and certainly hoped for) by now. There are a lot of things besides bobbing boobs that it would be useful for with figures interacting with objects or other figures. IMO, we're talking more automatic transmission here than heated llama skin seats; of course, everyone has their priorities. It may be a big technical challenge or they may not see it as a big priority. People seem to see it as a animation oriented feature which may explain it. Personally, I see the ability to easily have supple, yielding flesh as a big plus for still images as well and the ability to achieve it without setting up magnets etc. would be very nice.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

there is zero need for a full physics softbody colllision/deformation simulation in poser -- for stills. you have everything needed now.

the demand for such an advanced capability for stills is absurd.

you can make andy smash against a wall and flatten himself, with the wall receiving the impression of his body. you create a still of a fist squashing another character's face with both deforming. and yes, you can pose a shot of two girls' breasts squishing against each other.

and yes, the OP has a disagreable attitude.

for animation of jigging body parts? please go to renderotica. find stimuli. ask him how he does it.

salute to face-off, who has already contributed quite a history to the improvement of Poser over many years, both in early quasi-SSS endeavors and for a full hardbody collision/ragdoll implementation for Poser, for even thinking through what it would take to get quasi-SB in Poser.

::::: Opera :::::

{edited to add for reasonable people: I am pretty sure stimuli hand keys his animation loops}

{edited again to second face-off's request for the complaintant to cite a game that contains softbody collision/deformation/rebound in realtime (not cut scenes) on the fly}

Quote - ***Soft Body breast effects without handlers, morphs - pure softbody dynamics. how can it be, that we still not can do this in poser? these dynamics are possible in all the games of today.***Could you pls provide a link showing a game which implements soft body breast effects?

I am not sure exactly what this means, but both Rumble Roses games and Dead or Alive Xrteme 2 have rather bouncy bits on all of the females (all are all-female games). However, when pressed against an object, such as the wrestling mat or face down on a towel by the pool, I do not see the breasts flattening or any obvious "poke through" where parts of them simply disappear. Probably just Collisions On and the rest of the toon adjusts when those polys impact the surface.

...I'm equally surprised no one from the community has tackled it either...

There really is not that much call for animation stuff in Poser. I have made everything that I use for them myself.

Just about anything that can be done in a high end app (softbody wise) can be faked in Poser with either magnets and the cloth room, or a combination of both.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

Sounds like we're talking about more than one thing here...

True soft-body effects would allow parts to deform on collision. That would be great to have, though I understand why it is no small request.

The games which were mentioned (and also the most recent Soul Calibur as well) use what has been termed "jiggle-physics". I understand if some people think this is a silly feature, but it has been implemented already in games, so it's hard for some of us to accept that it couldn't be done also in Poser.

IClone has spring solvers, which would be great to have in Poser as they could probably do a large percentage of what people are wanting soft bodies for.

http://www.reallusion.com/iclone/help/iclone3/11_Props/Spring/Spring_Props.htm

But they are not the easiest thing to set up, and I don't believe they can easily be added to a figure within IClone/3DXChange.

Sparrowhawke has a "Jiggles "plug-in for Carrara that would be great to have for Poser. I'm not sure that such a thing is overkill for still images, as images created with it look much more natural than the same images without it. Body masses are soft, respond to gravity and react with inertia. Whether or not I could properly deform a body part with a magnet or morph, it's the gravity and inertia that are the problem. Could they be keyframed? I know I'm not good enough at animating to do that over the course of a lengthy animation. That is precisely the problem we would like to have a solution to.

It's not just breasts, but also bellies, buttocks, antennae, ears, tails, and transmapped hair are difficult to animate without an automated jiggle or spring.

I guess you have not tried it, you can already do collision deformations, jiggles, etc, in Poser. You just have to set them up manually with what is in the program.

Collison offset here so you can see it. I do not remember which way I did this particular one, but there are 3 ways of doing it. Yes I said 3....

Poser is a low cost program that has come a long way, it can do many things that other "High End" software can do. But it can not do it all. Yet..

I have yet to figure out how to do convincing fluid dynamics, but collisions and jiggles are more than doable.

I would love for Poser to be able to do everything Houdini can do, but I don't think making it cost 10g per machine is what most people want either.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

blender = $0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdusMZlBbQ4

Quote - blender = $0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdusMZlBbQ4

Yes, blender does do soft bodies nicely. It doesn't import Poser figures as well, unfortunately.

So which program(s) do have soft bodies, import Poser content, have dynamic cloth and hair, and allow soft body effects to be applied to Poser figures without breaking their rigging and/or morphs? I'm just curious as it's been implied that there are several...

who implied that "there are several?"

Attached Link: The Sound of Your Laughter

There was a script out there called "Dynachest," but it doesn't work in Poser Pro 2012. (Bad magic number) Roogna's "jiggles" script works, with questionable results. When I do animations, I make heavy use of Ironman 13's squish tools and "Natural Bounce." You can see the effects here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txsCdh1hZ6c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZedNEXhTn4

(The last animation, beginning at 2:25, was not easily done and I struggled to make the body movements sync with the piano.)

But, it's not just a woman's bosom that would be nice to have for soft body dynamics. Even still renders, where one character is holding another--like the attached link, above, would look more realistic.

yes. jiggly breasts good even if some are wildly offended by it.

but we need soft body dynamics for joints too, mashing of skin against skin in every area of the body. say the arm resting against the chest or hands on the legs. how about the skin on the cheeks or below the chin bouncing a touch or the muscles on the arms sloushing around? when i've ever needed it i've done it by magnets and keyframing, but that's pretty tedious.

so here's rationale for that, minus the whole breast thing, though i don't know why that should be neccessary. breasts should not equal evil when we're working on art right? where would the art of the masters be with that kind of attitude?

i don't expect this to happen anytime soon though. i think it would probably require two entire meshes.

we're gonna need a denser mesh too.

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

posters should specify if they are speaking of stills or animation.

in the prior post, if for stillls, you can do all that now.

Collison setups that are magnet based need very little keying information in them at all. Basically all you do is create a conforming character that has nothing more than magnets on the bones that are set up for the collisions, and a file to make all of them affect the character(s) body parts you want them to affect. Once you have it set up, you just load it just like you would clothes, conform it, and run the pose file to make it work on the character, clothes, etc. The picture above is just a simple hand setup that I made, it is in my Poser 6 runtime, so it has been possible for many years now.

There are a few reasons you want them on another skeleton. One is, you can use it with just about any character that shares the bone structure with very little work. There is nothing for them to affect on the rig it is on, no geometry at all. You can just select what you want them to affect to keep memory usage down.

If you are going the clothify route, many of the hidden cloth room settings dorkmcgork mentioned in another thread come into play.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

@Opera

Sorry, I don't see the attidude that you apparently do. There was no 'Poser sucks' etc. simply a question about a feature. Since when is that a sin? I think some folks here have circled the wagons to the point that any

legitimate query is viewed as an attack on holy writ - which is sad. It's great to discuss the existing features that may meet the need or even the need itself sans jumping on the messenger. As to the applicability, IMO, that

is a matter of opinion. I don't animate, but I'd love to have fluid dynamics for splashes, streams etc. in stills. People use cloth and hair dynamics for still images because they produce more realistic results. You may

see the need as de minimis or the existing solutions as sufficient but I hardly think that makes the idea 'absurd.' I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree here.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Wrong: there is an element of "poser sucks" in the first post and a repeat of the insistance further along that Poser should have these features or it is lame/sucks. you are in denial.

Meanwhile, there is no circling of the wagons about SP aleternatives, people are discussing alternatives, despite the opening ingratitude. and there is no "holy writ." I have been inquiring about Soft Body dynamics for years, and have had interaction with face-off about it. my attack is on the attitude of rude entitlement, not the exploration of the feature or the need for it.

I will repeat my contention, which you interpreted incorrectly: it is absurd to demand full softbody dynamics implementation [or else Poser sucks!] if you are creating stills that simply need a squish or deformation, including springback. You can do it now, while waiting for full-blown SB.

And expressing some respect for what the program can already do.

::::: Opera :::::

To whomever has a high attitude reading on thier meter

Look IF I caused this I would like to clarify the OP's "tone" indicated to me that features not present in Poser (any ver.) somehow restricted his/her/its artistic development. This tickled my irony receptor in a way that caused a post reflex a post which could easily be seen as mocking

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

@jimTS for my part, no your post did not contribute to my perception of attitude in the OP. I formed that all on my own. I am more reactant to moogal who -- unless i am TOTALLY missing the irony -- is using the "should word" although couched in "would have expected it". Meanwhile, the OP has not returned to justify his "all games have it" throw-in.

Anyway, for my own part, i have no need to carry on the 'attitude of ingratitude' discussion; the potential work-arounds in this thread that I have never heard of are fascinating and cool. That's what I propose we focus on.

::::: Opera :::::

Quote - who implied that "there are several?"

A post earlier in the thread made it sound like anyone using Poser for 10 years would know of at least one program in which you could load your Poser figure and apply soft-body effects.

I've been using Poser for 10+ years and am guessing it's Cinema and Fusion, or Shade. Not something I would consider common knowledge, given I had to think about it and might be completely wrong....

Everything I can think of uses a mataball Gizmo or Null thing that would "count as a deformer"

and I said An Application singular

Quote - You've been around for ten years and haven't found an app that you can import Poser content and apply your softbody dynamics to. What's with you for asking?

No it's no going to natively support Poser dynamics texture nodes or much else But Poser Poses Better than it renders (lights mostly)

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

OP: Actually, you can't do that in any game. They have cutscenes rendered in high end software, or an animated 'titty loop', and that is about it. the polygon budget requirements for sbd can get huge. The calculations for -any- kind of dynamic are intense....and since most games today have to somehow work on fossils like the Xbox 360 & Playstation whatever number, both of which have all of 512megs to handle a game executable with, well.....

face_off: Cooooooool. I can foresee, if your implementation works out, an end to all the grumps about chairs and beds and other objects-de-sit-on.

I would dearly love some form of softskin dynamics; I animate, and the time it takes tweaking magnets, adjusting falloff strength for same, realigning things to avoid apparently squishing a bone, etc gets to be prohibitive. But I also know that we've had hair dynamics and cloth dynamics since Poser 5, and the number of people who open that tab once and run screaming is legion. Skin dynamics would be just as complex, if not more so. And currently, would require changes in Poser that would totally break its system. There would have to be an armature of some kind beneath the dynamic parts (just like you have to use current morphs to animate breast-bounce =before= you run a dynamic cloth sim). Such an armature is quite -possible-; we already have an exoskeletal version of that with conforming clothes. And Shvrdavid's magneto-deforming skeleton, for that matter (very cool concept and I'd hate to try and build one. Magnets and I don't see eye to eye for some reason...). But there -has- to be some 'bone analog' for the deformer to meet resistance from. That armature would add significantly to the polygon budget of =any= Poser figure. And that doesn't get into the issues of scaling and morphing that a Poser mesh is gleefully submitted to. There may be a way to do the armature-proxy sub structure that would be needed (Ghu knows the community has come up with some incredible hacks, work-arounds, and basic concepts over the years); never going to see a skeletal/muscle system like Maya and customized animation apps have. Those Who Animate (ie: The Poser Twelve :P ) would have no doubt disgusting biological responses over the frosty goodness.....but then again, we also know about spending time wisely for best effect. Most of the still artists look at dynamics as a waste of time, and as the comparative lack in advances in animation controls indicate, the still artists have the upper hand where resources tend to go....

Quote - @jimTS for my part, no your post did not contribute to my perception of attitude in the OP. I formed that all on my own. I am more reactant to moogal who -- unless i am TOTALLY missing the irony -- is using the "should word" although couched in "would have expected it". Meanwhile, the OP has not returned to justify his "all games have it" throw-in.

Anyway, for my own part, i have no need to carry on the 'attitude of ingratitude' discussion; the potential work-arounds in this thread that I have never heard of are fascinating and cool. That's what I propose we focus on.

::::: Opera :::::

The "should word".... Yes, I think Poser "should" have this feature. I thought it "should" have had some solution for it two versions ago. If anyone is working on the next version of Poser, IMHO soft or spring dynamics is a feature that "should" be considered.

I did expect some semblance of soft/spring dynamics for the last two releases (either would be an obvious feature for this program). It's not unrealistic for a program at this price to have this feature (especially with bullet being open source). I bought Poser, I pay for upgrades, and this really is something many other users want. I only voice my opinion whenever this is discussed in hopes that someone who could do something about it will take notice (squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that...).

I'm not quite sure how my words come across to others, but the old "Poser is a hobby app" apology stopped working for me when I upgraded to Poser Pro.

The work-arounds are fascinating and show that a better solution is not that unreasonable a request.

There are a bajillion features I'd like to have, up to (and including) a working "make art" button, but lack of soft/spring/jiggle physics is the one I consider a real shortcoming of the program as it stands.

Yeah...I didn't read any particular attitude either.

Tho we really may not need soft body dynamics (hey, I do everything with magnets and the morph brush..heh), it would be nice. And we all like "nice", right? ;) Why get so upset when ppl say they'd like a certain thing or why don't we have it yet? Hell, I want a million bucks. Don't mean I'm gonna get it - but I keep SAYING it..lol. And by saying it, I'm not harming anyone (except maybe those who have their own, odd conceptions and how they perceive it, however my intentions, is on them).

Laurie

Quote - Collison setups that are magnet based need very little keying information in them at all. Basically all you do is create a conforming character that has nothing more than magnets on the bones that are set up for the collisions, and a file to make all of them affect the character(s) body parts you want them to affect. Once you have it set up, you just load it just like you would clothes, conform it, and run the pose file to make it work on the character, clothes, etc. The picture above is just a simple hand setup that I made, it is in my Poser 6 runtime, so it has been possible for many years now.

I don't understand what you've done here. Can you please explain?

I found this example of what I wish Poser had. Yes it is a rather silly program, but the effect is well implemented and runs in real time. I'd like to be able to freely apply this type of dynamic to existing figures and props, as it would be very tedious to animate this by hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn1mvKbje0I

I'm not looking to make giant breasts or anything "objectifying", I just want natural looking animations without the unnecessary effort. If this feature were implemented the way I'd like, my first use of it would more likely be to try and give bounce to the transmapped hair I use.

I never intended to disparage the program for not yet having this feature. I just don't agree with those who feel the feature is unnecessary, or too high-end for Poser's price range. Dynamic cloth and hair were once considered "high end" features, but the developers of Poser wisely realized those were logical features for a character animation program to have, and so now we do. I feel precisely this way about soft-body/spring dynamics.

I don't see the distinction between stills and animations, except that manually simulating this effect is doable for stills but time prohibitive for animations. Having a spring object (similar to our magnets and waves) would simply the creation of both, and might possibly look better as well.

dale, face-off, anyone: Carrara has a feature where you can indicate the DIRECTION of gravity!

any sim engine, including the current cloth engine, that would respect the direction of 'gravity' on a figure/prop/group by figure/prop/group might be quite interesting.

Poser's cloth sim already has a control for gravity strength. Any chance gravity direction/vector would be fairly simple to activate?

::::: Opera :::::

yeah gravity control would be cool too. how about also an option to force loops to slide along the mesh when the mesh compresses so that tight clothes polys don't overcut each other and then find themselves being forced through each other? it could work with an angle limiting factor, that will not allow angles of normals to exceed a setable number.

i have run screaming from the dynamics, but i hate doing anything without them. conforming cloth is just gagtacular to me, even when the detail is as amazing as it often is.

hair dynamics in 2010 is just as big a mess as it ever was as far as i've seen, but still looks far better than transmapped. any neat improvements in the new versions?

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

hair: "...any neat improvements in the new versions?"

Generating the simulation is faster.

"will not allow angles of normals to exceed a setable number." i wonder if that is the same thing as "fold resistance" in the cloth engine.

maybe that's true. but i've set fold resistance to 1000 and still get ugly folds cutting through each other on tight cloth. if the loops would slide back and forth then maybe i wouldn't have that. i've turned friction totally off to get good sliding, and that is working okay.

anyway i'm still working on a sim of stocking-like garment on the thighs and hip, really more of a bicycle short. i've morphed the joint so there are no poly collisions between the hip and thigh, which will throw error and tear the cloth. i'm getting better success from a very dense mesh.

whoops now i'm hijacking the thread though so i'm moving on from this narrowness.

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

I could never understand why there are only the two types of clothing, conforming and dynamic. It seems there could be a type of clothing that simply maintains its fit as the body is posed. I suppose there would have to be a lot of vertex level checking to do this, but I don't understand why form fitting clothing has to have so much poke-through. Just thinking that some kind of collision detection to keep the clothing mesh from intersecting the body mesh would be needed, but without soft-bodies many poses actually require mesh intersection.

Maybe there could be some way of doing a depth sort of the body and clothing meshes; if most of a mesh is in front of another mesh, the mesh poking through would simply not be drawn.

Well, conforming clothing is a hack based off of a bug found in P4; it was never intended, planned, or programmed. It just worked, and the community ran with it. Outside the poserverse, the usual method for a dressed character is to have the exposed bodyparts welded into a standalone mesh for the dressed bodyparts. Saves on polygon budget, and pokethrough never happens as there is nothing there -to- poke through.

The kind of simulation you're thinking of would be computationally intense. Unless you could narrowly specify collision check zones, you would be running at least a per-polygon collision test between whatever the clothing item is, and the body part(s) being covered. Maybe down to a per vertex level. Then you would have to have some kind of dynamic displacement process to adjust the various parts. And it would have to affect both figures; tight clothing binds, and can deform the body. At the very least it would bar anyone without a strong computer from the arena, and depending on how things had to be MacGuyvered into the current Poser system, it might require a separate simulation run.

Quote - jiggly breasts aren't the top things i'd like to find in next poser. not even jiggly testicals.

bwahahaa :)

No body tried the "Create Wind Force" button on breasts yet???

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

For the jugs that flap in the wind? LOL

Laurie

Quote - No body tried the "Create Wind Force" button on breasts yet???

I have used windforce with the hidden cloth spring settings, but I did not experiment with it enough to see if it is any better than other ways. If you had other wind forces in the scene, it would be murder to set up as well.

I have considered using that and using magnets as a stopping point for the effect as well.

There is the order problem as well, it is not so easy to rearrange the order of simulations.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

Quote - Well, conforming clothing is a hack based off of a bug found in P4; it was never intended, planned, or programmed. It just worked, and the community ran with it. Outside the poserverse, the usual method for a dressed character is to have the exposed bodyparts welded into a standalone mesh for the dressed bodyparts. Saves on polygon budget, and pokethrough never happens as there is nothing there -to- poke through.

The kind of simulation you're thinking of would be computationally intense. Unless you could narrowly specify collision check zones, you would be running at least a per-polygon collision test between whatever the clothing item is, and the body part(s) being covered. Maybe down to a per vertex level. Then you would have to have some kind of dynamic displacement process to adjust the various parts. And it would have to affect both figures; tight clothing binds, and can deform the body. At the very least it would bar anyone without a strong computer from the arena, and depending on how things had to be MacGuyvered into the current Poser system, it might require a separate simulation run.

The third method I mentioned seems much less intensive, but would need one sided polygon clothing.

Attached Link: http://youtu.be/CZO7ZD21lu4

Attached is a link to a sample ANIMATION of Soft Body Dynamics in Poser. It only shows a HiRes Ball bouncing down the stairs, but you get the idea.

This was done using a hybrid of PoserPhysics. It should animate cloth quite nicely too.

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Paul you are going to electrify Poserdom.

Wonderful

::::: Opera :::::

Can the squash be proportioned to maintain a volume?

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So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

Can the squash be proportioned to maintain a volume?

Yes, and you can set the speed with which it returns back to it's original shape/volume.

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will you release this as an update for poserphysics or will this be a seperate item? and lastly when can we expect to buy this, as this is a must...

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

will you release this as an update for poserphysics or will this be a seperate item? and lastly when can we expect to buy this, as this is a must...

I haven't really thought about all this yet. Unfortunately there is an immense amount of effort required to take something from "concept" to "release". Having people say how much they want these features pushes it up the priority list though :-) I'll post any progress on the blog and facebook.

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thanks face_off.

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Loved this thread, was a great read.

Except for the whole "How dare you complain about a $400.00 program" part. That part was just ... odd. I'm always astonished how it is unacceptable to ask the same of virtual products, or to be just as critical, as people are of real goods. I can say GE washing machines do not have all the features they should and nobody gets offended.

Anyway...

I am relearning my new version of Poser and was just in the process of a scene where there is a girl behind a glass door. I was thinking that it would be neat if I could figure out how to squish her up against the glass, but had no clue where I would even start with that. Then within an hour I came across this thread. I am going to try the magnet solution (although I've always had minimal luck with Magnets, I give up too easy). Well see how that works for someone with no skill in that area at all. Excited to try though :)

I am: aka Velocity3d

Quote - Loved this thread, was a great read.

I am relearning my new version of Poser and was just in the process of a scene where there is a girl behind a glass door. I was thinking that it would be neat if I could figure out how to squish her up against the glass, but had no clue where I would even start with that. Then within an hour I came across this thread. I am going to try the magnet solution (although I've always had minimal luck with Magnets, I give up too easy). Well see how that works for someone with no skill in that area at all. Excited to try though :)

You need either the X&M perfect breast morphs (not available here) or Ironman's "squish." You can have your figure pressing up against the glass quite nicely using either of those tools. I recall a black and white photo of Jennifer Connoly pressed up against a mirror that reminded me of what you want to do. It was a beautiful photo, and I'm sure that you can create a beautiful render with that idea.

Quote - Can the squash be proportioned to maintain a volume?

Yes, and you can set the speed with which it returns back to it's original shape/volume.

Looks great for deformations? Does is also do the gravity/bounce/over/undershoot we have also been talking about?

Do you think it will ever be possible to do zone-based "bouncy" hair? I was thinking it would be like a magnet zone, but reversed. You'd want the most bounce at the outer edges with no bounce closest to the scalp. By bounce I mean the delay between when the mesh starts/stops relative to the parent object (over/undershoot?).

Attached Link: http://youtu.be/B07Q8gKhn8s

Another animation - this time with a piece of cloth - showing the actual simulation calculation speed (it's not quite real-time, but still pretty quick). Obviously you could acheive the same outcome in the cloth room. Will try cloth against a figure if I get a chance.

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Does is also do the gravity/bounce/over/undershoot we have also been talking about?

Gravity - Yes

Bounce - Yes

Over/Undershoot - This is a complex one. What is overshooting what? I think you are thinking breast poly's will over/under shoot the chest actor keyframe animation? How will you define which poly's on the figure are "breast polys"? This is a similar simulation to a boat's sail. The sail (soft body) is attached to the mast (ridig body) - however in that case the attachment points are clearly defined.

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I tried my magnet on the wall method. See the result here.

it is a ball colliding with a wall; but the ball could be anything coming in the magnet zone.

As the ball moves towards the wall he comes under the influence of a magnet and gets sqeezed.

Anyone intersted in the "how did I do it?"

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

just a step further All I did was move the ball further towards the wall.

When the ball is outside the magnet zone? It stays a ball.
But when it comes closer to the magnet zone?
Or into the magnet zone?
It comes under the influence of the magnet.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

And here I replaced the ball with Posette, ha-ha-ha-, and pushed her to the wall...

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Nose touching :-)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - Loved this thread, was a great read.

Except for the whole "How dare you complain about a $400.00 program" part. That part was just ... odd. I'm always astonished how it is unacceptable to ask the same of virtual products, or to be just as critical, as people are of real goods. I can say GE washing machines do not have all the features they should and nobody gets offended.

And how do this people know about the development cost of a specific feature anyway?

Meli

"Der anzige der do wos hacklt is da Ventilator..."

Quote - Does is also do the gravity/bounce/over/undershoot we have also been talking about?

Gravity - Yes

Bounce - Yes

Over/Undershoot - This is a complex one. What is overshooting what? I think you are thinking breast poly's will over/under shoot the chest actor keyframe animation? How will you define which poly's on the figure are "breast polys"? This is a similar simulation to a boat's sail. The sail (soft body) is attached to the mast (ridig body) - however in that case the attachment points are clearly defined.

I guess I meant the delay between when a soft area starts moving and when it comes to rest relative to the part moving it. Imagine a car antenna with a flag on it. If the car begins moving, inertia holds the flag in place until the limit of the antenna's springiness is met (undershoot). Then when the car stops, the flag will continue moving forward (overshoot) until finally oscillating to a stop. The faster the parent's acceleration/deceleration, the more pronounced the elastic effect...

Are you saying there's no way to create a soft group adjacent to a rigid group on the same mesh?

Either way, this seems like a must have for many cool things!

Really, really glad I upgraded to PP2012! I actually thought about leaving Poser behind. A year and a half later and I have just finished my first paid Poser gig, started working on one of my most elaborate personal projects in years, and am now seeing the implementation of one of my most long-requested features. (Not to mention using the most satisfying release of Poser I ever bought!) Good times!

Quote - [quo te]

Loved this thread, was a great read.

Except for the whole "How dare you complain about a $400.00 program" part. That part was just ... odd. I'm always astonished how it is unacceptable to ask the same of virtual products, or to be just as critical, as people are of real goods. I can say GE washing machines do not have all the features they should and nobody gets offended.

And how do this people know about the development cost of a specific feature anyway?

Well of course that's unknowable. But soft bodies aren't like the moon race, we aren't asking SM to invent them. They could add them via discussed improvements to the cloth sim. They could make a special magnet that would "lazy follow" its parent. They could graft in Bullet like everyone else is doing. They could just make a springy bone of some kind and call the problem solved...

At the very least, I'd hope they understand the solutions being presented here and make sure that nothing in the way Poser works or is exposed to developers is slowing these developments. ( I know that Sparrowhawke felt his jiggles plug-in could be improved if he could hook into a part of Carrara he had no access to. I don't know if that's the case with Poser or not.)

The number of attempts at addressing the problem indicate to me that this would be a worthwhile addition.

i have GOT to check out this "bullet" thing i kept hearing about

hey vilters what are your mag zone and base settings in that mesh? i tried it with two balls. i put a magnet on one ball, set the zone and base in the exact middle, and then reparented the magnet parts to the other ball. now i get a cool collision, but i'm having to fiddle like crazy with the zone settings to keep the collision against the ball from deforming too far into it.

that would be freaking awesome to have dynamics that worked that fast : ) just awesome.

we could possibly get there if we could custom shape our magnet zones beyond the simple oval. maybe like a mesh that has regions of influence within it

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

Open Poser load a Box from the primitives, I colored it blue. Goto Object (upper menu) => Create magnet

The box gets a magnet.
Put the magnet base in the exact middle of the box.

For the magnet set:
xScale and yScale to 150%

For the magnet zone set:

xScale and yScale to 5000%
zScale to 50%

Your box should now look like this:

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

And your box is now ready to be put on the wall where the collision has to be. From now on, only move the box to move the magnet.

Now make a wall, I did this with a second box scaled up to X and Y 1000.
Place the wall wherever you want, I put it slightly behind the blue magnet box.

It should look something like this.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Now load a figure you want to use. I loaded Posette. Turn her around facing the wall and check where she will touch. Now slide the blue magnet-box exactly where she will touch. (I let it visible for clarity.)

It should look like this.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Now slide the mag zone that it is centered to the wall. Half outside of the wall, half inside of the wall. The zone (red vertical lines) should be like this. You remember that we set the zone 5000 in X andY, but only to 50 in Z.. It should look like this.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Now select the magnet….. And in the magnets properties Goto “Add element to deform“. Here add the groups you want to deform. In this case I select Posettes chest. (as her breasts are on her chest.)

Ready?:
Slide Posette against the wall.

And slide the magzone in- or out until you have the effect you desire.

Play with the settings to fine tune.

Good luck.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Now to render?

All you have to do is set the blue box invisible to the render.

And go ahead.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Voila gentlemen, now you have all the info to play with....

Good luck...

Yes, it is experimenting to get exactly what you want, and you will have to experiment for floors, and so on, but you have the "trick" and the tools now to do so.

Happy posering
Tony

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Mmm... meat cubes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPJ9a1KwEw

Funny video. What I see, can be done with magnets. And boxes with magets.

I can even splash a ball wide open against the wall....

Only cranked the xScale and the yScale up to 300 on the magnet...
:-)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

I'm using pp2012 Does the blue square represent the magnet base? Mine is a yellow rectangle

I am: aka Velocity3d

I tried using magnets on fingertips but found THAT exercise utterly frustrating!

Follow the tutorial :-)

You start by loading a box from primitives and coloring it blue.

Then load a magnet for this box, and yes that magnets base is yellow.
Then put the magnets base in the middle of the blue primitive box.
Use a wireframe mode, and a side view to do that.
The box is blue, the magnets base, invisible as it is inside the box is yellow.

Have a nice day.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

errr I was exhausted when I was reading through it the first time, must have missed that part. Sorry : / Gunna give it a go with actually going step by step with the tutorial right now. Thank you!

I am: aka Velocity3d

Well I am a little stuck right now but maybe I can get past it. I just don't see the magnet zone like in your images. I have it set as visible in the properties but all I see is the circle not the rectangle red lines like your images show.

I am: aka Velocity3d

That was a good tutorial I did learn some things from it. I found when working with V4 and following it that using one magnet seemed to spread her breasts out from the middle making it appear rather odd. But if I used the same concept on 2 different magnets - one for each breast I got a pretty good result.

Thank you Vilters!

I am: aka Velocity3d

Ok, I just learned something new!

If you want fingers to deform flesh, follow Vilter's formula and do the following:

1. Create a primitive ball and scale to 15%

2. Carefully place the ball on the third digit of a figure's finger.

3. Parent the ball to the third digit.

4. Create a magnet on the ball.

5. Adjust the y, x and z rotations so that the magnet applies force in the same direction as the finger tip.

Under the properties tab for the magnet, select "add element to deform" and choose the body part of the figure you want the magnet to influence.
Make the ball and magnet invisible.

8. Move the finger digit and the flesh on the other figure will deform appropriately!

I'd show you, but this would violate the TOS . . .

;)

LOL

super neat i'm gonna do finger magnets too. parenting the ball to the fingers is the way baby. then always just load the set as smart props right?

by the way i found the setting that lets loops on a mesh in dynamic cloth slide closer together. it's the shear setting. i really really had that one wrong. from the description of shear, i thought that that would prevent say, a square poly from falling to become say a diamond. but all you have to do is set shear to .001 (and i'm using fold at 1000) and as the cloth bunches up in the folds of an arm or something, the polys in that area reduce their width so that you get a smoother bend.

i realize it's not super realistic. after all we do get folds of cloth on our body's joints. but in poser, even with fold at 1000 and cloth against cloth and every other restraint i can imagine, i still get the cloth polys rotating aound each other and cutting through each other until the sim fails. not to mention awful looing renders of cloth polys cutting through each other! ugh.

so this is working with very tight clothes across joints as long as no joint vertex crosses into the polys on the other side of the joint. you need to make morphs to prevent that from happening. or magnets across joints or double magnets if you can get that to work.

for wrinkles in fabric, i recon we can make a few morphs lifting (or scaling in a direction, rather) the loops up a tad where we know the bend occurs, and add them after the sim.

i'm gonna run some more sims tonight and drop some more info later.

i gotta tell ya, the description of shear in the documentation really really lost me there. i kept fighting with stretch, intuitively believing that there was a negative stretch setting that would tighten the cloth. that is not the case that i've seen. stretch only allows cloth to stretch futher or less, but does not aid in contracting the mesh at all, period. shear seems to be the setting that allows for compression of the mesh, in fact, higher shear seems to prevent the compression of the mesh. so go for a very low shear to compress mesh.

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

here's a few pics

here's a couple showing this very even mesh. it's just two of the same tubes, the bottom one is a figure with 2 bones. top is cloth

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

ok here's the bottom one from earlier post

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

now watch how the loops compress : )

neato!

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

at the risk of wasting bandwidth, here's a view from when i tried it with a higher stretch resistence. it's good still, but i think i'm gonna leave that setting alone for a bit. stretch here was 100. by the way the cloth is restrained only on the very ends of the tube (off camera a ways down) and both frictions on the cloth are at 0.

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

so i think i got that one down.

now anyone know how to get soft decorated groups to behave? mine have so far always just floated all over the place to the point i just gave up having them and spent tons of time on workarounds

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

Quote - so i think i got that one down.

now anyone know how to get soft decorated groups to behave? mine have so far always just floated all over the place to the point i just gave up having them and spent tons of time on workarounds

A soft decorated item should NOT be welded to the main cloth and have at least one face that faces the main cloth on the underside. For instance, say you'd like to create a hem. You'd choose a ring of faces of the main cloth in your modeler and do something like a shell extrude. It creates a separate mesh that isn't welded to the other and it has faces that face the item on the underside.

Laurie

Great discussion!

cool i'll give that a go. maybe my bottom polys were facing the wrong way

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

Nice discussion, but there's one comment I'd like to make.

I wish people would stop saying "But it's possible in Game X, so why can't we do it in Poser!" "Real time" ray tracing. Jiggle physics. Insert feature of your choice here.

The problem is that people are comparing an effect that, by definition, works only in a very restricted environment (namely, the game) and extrapolating that to software that operates in a much wider context.

Games cheat mercilessly. Baked in reflections and global illumination. Billboards instead of 3D. "Jiggle physics" in female breasts but no softbody physics anywhere else (and quite often the breasts are only bouncing around and not actually reacting to the environment during gameplay). Making sure the camera can only look in a limited range of directions. Specifically designing the 3D engine for the game (or vice versa). There are a lot of good-looking--fantastic looking, in fact--games that when you stop things from moving look like something rendered in Poser 4-era software with some postwork.

Right now, even the best games out there, running on the best quality machines, cannot produce still imagery equivalent to what's possible in the latest versions of Poser (or DS, and certainly not the high end 3D software) which make you stop for a second and have to think about whether the image is real or CG. And for moving images, forget it.

Lots of users are looking for problems.

Few users are trying to look and search for answers.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Well said.

Everything is easy and possible if you don't know how it works...

it's our desire though that makes these things happen.

very soon we will have real time animation indistinguishable from real life. what we're doing now was sci fi not so long ago. hopefully, our little poser program may be the software to cross that finish line; you never know. we just have to keep supporting and pushing it.

so we'll keep working on our little solutions while developers keep pushing their envelopes.

i reinstalled wow about a year ago and took it for a spin. i hadn't played in some time. i tried out a blue elf chick, and while on the character screen, was amazed that the character hopped about inpatiently, breasts just jiggling away! for a moment i thought it might be dynamics too, it's timed well, but on closer examination, i don't think they even morped the breasts at all, i think the skeleton bent the chest into the abdomen quickly back and forth to acheive that look.

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn

If animating soft parts is so difficult in Poser, how does Roogna's script work?

ive been reading the thread with interest, i think the first question was stated purely matter of factly inviting an answer or opinion. I think it seems to boil down to the limitations of Poser as an animation program, just being devils advocate here, but the blurb on the SM site does state "Poser Pro 2012 is the fastest way for professional artists and production teams to add pre-rigged and fully textured 3D characters to their projects." In all honesty not the blurb you would expect from a hobby software program as someone mentioned.

Don't get me wrong , I'm happy with the way it performs mostly, because I haven't the skillset to use anything more advanced. Different strokes for different folks as usual, and in all fairness to the original poster, has there really been any advancement in the animation abilities since Poser 5?... hate mail to the usual PO address please :)

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Image Editing: PSP V9/Irfanview
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Quote - I think it seems to boil down to the limitations of Poser as an animation program, just being devils advocate here, but the blurb on the SM site does state "Poser Pro 2012 is the fastest way for professional artists and production teams to add pre-rigged and fully textured 3D characters to their projects." In all honesty not the blurb you would expect from a hobby software program as someone mentioned.

I think a lot of long time users are still thinking of the program's original purpose as a digital version of the artist's mannequin. I fully agree with you here. It's not the users mistaking Poser for a professional level app, once it was branded that way some of us came to feel it should live up to the claim.

Numerous features, most notably cloth and hair, have been added over the course of a fairly long lifespan. Soft body physics would seem the next logical feature, as they are very relevant to the program's primary purpose.

might be slightly o/t and i hate to say it, but i see the future as a basic stripped down program that you can buy add ons for to enable it to do what it is capable of. No disrespect to any vendor or programmer intended, but if for example Poserphysics is possible, why isnt it an intergral part of the software?, it's been around for a few years now, just speaking as an end user here, i never could get my head around the principle of buying add ons that made a program do what it was capable of...it's a bit like buying a tv and then finding out you needed to upgrade it to the colour enhancement module to watch anything but black and white......

OS: Windows7 64-bit Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2430M CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2401 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s) 6GB Ram
Poser: Poser Pro 2012 SR3.1 ...Poser 8.........Poser5 on a bad day........
Daz Studio Pro 4.5 64bit

Carrara beta 8.5

Modelling: Silo/Hexagon/Groboto V3
Image Editing: PSP V9/Irfanview
Movie Editing. Cyberlink power director/Windows live movie maker

"I live in an unfinished , poorly lit box, but we call it home"

My freestuff

link via my artist page

Quote - might be slightly o/t and i hate to say it, but i see the future as a basic stripped down program that you can buy add ons for to enable it to do what it is capable of. No disrespect to any vendor or programmer intended, but if for example Poserphysics is possible, why isnt it an intergral part of the software?, it's been around for a few years now, just speaking as an end user here, i never could get my head around the principle of buying add ons that made a program do what it was capable of...it's a bit like buying a tv and then finding out you needed to upgrade it to the colour enhancement module to watch anything but black and white......

If SM bought or licensed every add-on provided by the community, it would either severly cut their profits or increase the cost of the program significantly. I don't think Poserphysics should be intergrated, as not everyone has a need for it. I only want SM to encourage things like Poserphysics to be developed. Let them worry about providing proper support to would-be plug-in developers in the form of documentation, communication and basic program stability. If a 3rd party plug-in makes sense to include, then SM can always license or buy it later. Plug ins by their nature deal with specific situations. It's good that they are available, whether or not you need them. It doesn't mean that something was missing from a program that someone saw fit to make a plug-in which expands upon the program's usefulness.

In the case of soft bodies, no 3rd party has stepped forward with a true solution. I don't know if the problem is that soft bodies are so hard to implement in general, or just that they might be difficult for a 3rd party to implement in the form of a plug-in.

Plug-in architecture is a highly beneficial thing that all higher-end CG apps generally have... and Poser definitely should have, to remain a healthy app.

Poser certainly ships with a number of very useful plug-ins, which can optionally extend it for advanced or specialist purposes... e.g. the advanced render options.

I would guess that whether a more widely used plug in is bundled or not, will be down to whether or not a deal can be struck between SM and the 3rd party plug-in developer?

Wardrobe Wizard obviously has been bundled in this way. I wouldn't be surprised to see a certain other script, that is now being more widely used in P9/PP2012 and up...end up being bundled also... depending on how the author of that wishes to proceed...

However, it's not surprising, I don't reckon, that a more sophisticated plug-in... for a more specialist purpose... such as PoserPhysics is kept separate (certainly at present). Especially given it's retail value, when it is sold separately.

Soft body physics is a big old beast of a thing to tackle though, far as I understand it... and may well be beyond what's possible with a plug-in... currently?

Presumably, to do it right, would mean some sort of integration with weight maps... and who knows what else? So personally, I'd expect to be waiting a little longer to see it... beyond maybe techniques which are more, effectively, workarounds or tricks, in the meantime.

Workarounds, tricks... or whatever... techniques, are fine by me just now though. Indeed, because I'm not currently making animation, I'd generally prefer to go the morph brush route.

The discussion of cloth room techniques is fascinating though... and I'll need to give it a try somepoint soon...

mysticeagle posted at 4:11AM Mon, 22 February 2016 - #3965718

i think the first question was stated purely matter of factly inviting an answer or opinion. I think it seems to boil down to the limitations of Poser as an animation program, just being devils advocate here, but the blurb on the SM site does state "Poser Pro 2012 is the fastest way for professional artists and production teams to add pre-rigged and fully textured 3D characters to their projects." In all honesty not the blurb you would expect from a hobby software program as someone mentioned.

Don't get me wrong , I'm happy with the way it performs mostly, because I haven't the skillset to use anything more advanced. Different strokes for different folks as usual, and in all fairness to the original poster, has there really been any advancement in the animation abilities since Poser 5?...

atter of factly inviting an answer or opinion = sure it was, found this lost thread back today...

Where now at "NEW Poser Pro 11" and in the years, not much changed in poser, the game dev versions was my latest version i bought. as animation in poser is still to much time taken process for the effects you get in other soft "realtime" looks like reallillusion iclone these days is doing better as poser and daz together.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Soft Body breast effects without handlers, morphs - pure softbody dynamics