Inspired by JoeQuick, I'm starting my own sketchbook - revealing what I'm thinking about or interested in, that maybe you would be, too.

I was going to do a blog but it doesn't let me upload pictures. Bah - what a stupid idea - blogging about Poser without pictures.

So - here we go.

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Today I'm thinking about braids and bracelets.

Been doing a few bracelets, which involves wrapping some shape or shapes in a circle, for the purpose of showing some materials on something interesting.

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I was interested in doing a procedural or parametric braid and went looking all over for the math.

Couldn't find it. Then I stumbled on an excellent thread by pjz99.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2751275

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I don't have C4D but I have Poser and I have Python.

I wrote some scripts. I made some objects. I applied some shaders.

This is the result.

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Render.

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Wireframes.

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What kind of blog you use BB? I have Wordpress, there is no problem to insert pics.

Great Idea. :)

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

I was going to blog here - Rendo has blogging.

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You guys can't use this script because it requires geometry libraries I have never shared. But I thought some might find it interesting to see how it's done.

def splineTransform(fx, fy, fz, t):
        dt = .001
        tp = t + dt/2
        tn = t - dt / 2
        x,y,z = fx(t), fy(t), fz(t)
        dx = (fx(tp) - fx(tn)) / dt
        dy = (fy(tp) - fy(tn)) / dt
        dz = (fz(tp) - fz(tn)) / dt
        tx = MatrixFromVector(Vector(dx, dy, dz))
        tx.w = Vector(x, y, z)
        return tx

r = 3 * inch
p = 8 * r
R = 12 * r

def tube(i, dr, ys, tw):
        a = i / 3.0
        k = 8
        def fx(t):
                return r * sin(2 * pi * (t + a))
        def fy(t):
                return r/2 * sin(4 * pi * (t + a))
        def fz(t):
                return -p * t

        pl = PolyList()
        p0 = ucircleSOUTH(dr, 36) >> Scale(tw, 1, 1)
        pa = None
        for t in lerps(0, k, k * 40):
                tx = splineTransform(fx, fy, fz, t)
                tx = tx * Scale(1, ys, 1) * Trans(0, R, -fz(t)) * XRot(-t * 360.0 / k)
                pb = p0 >> tx
                if pa:
                        pl << pb.bridge(pa)
                pa = pb
        return pl
def braid(morph=None):
        if morph == '?':
                return [
                        ('Tube Size', 0),
                        ('Tube Width', 0),
                        ('Flatten', 0),
                ]
        dr = .666 * r
        if morph == 'Tube Size':
                dr = r
        if morph == 'Tube Width':
                tw = 1.5
        else:
                tw = 1
        if morph == 'Flatten':
                ys = .5
        else:
                ys = 1
        pl = PolyList()
        for i in xrange(3):
                pl << tube(i, dr, ys, tw).weld()
        return pl

Morphing(braid, 'Braid')

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The prop created by the script has morphs. One of them is the "Tube Size" morph, shown here.

It's useful, but not ideal - I'd rather see the tubes stay just touching. The math for that seems like it would complicate things a bit.

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The second morph, Tube Width, changes the aspect ratio of the tube cross section. Combined with Tube Size it can make a lot of nice variations.

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The 3rd morph, Flatten, does these things.

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The braid basic unit is this. The bracelet or ring is made by "wrapping" that around a cylinder or circle. Multiple copies line up with each other because this is a "tileable" shape, just like tileable images. Well - tileable in one dimension anyway.

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The idea of wrapping multiple copes of a basic unit shape got me thinking about generalizing the principle. So I wrote a script that, at the push of a button, grabs whatever is the current prop in your scene and warps multiple copies of it into a ring.

Here is my material pawn duplicated and wrapped around a circle.

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"Ringing" a plain cylinder is kind of boring. You get a simple torus.

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But - this is no ordinary cylinder. This is the mighty Poser "Pipe", a morphing cylinder.

Suppose we bulge it and clone it 12 times. Niiiice.

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hmm. can you follow any path set by a string of co-ordinates? say to make cabling, piping etc.. and maybe string along a 2nd OBJ to make flanges and coupling?

*an example http://images.wikia.com/stargate/images/9/9e/ControlInterfaceRoom02.jpg the central column there. (this is from Stargate Universe)

Cloning another piece and it gets interesting.

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Doing this several times got me this bracelet.

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Quote - hmm. can you follow any path set by a string of co-ordinates? say to make cabling, piping etc.. and maybe string along a 2nd OBJ to make flanges and coupling?

*an example http://images.wikia.com/stargate/images/9/9e/ControlInterfaceRoom02.jpg the central column there. (this is from Stargate Universe)

Yes I think I can. I don't know how to make spline curves yet though, but once I have one I can follow it cloning any unit piece. I could make chain this way.

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Great thread

Better a thread than a blog, I think, for this sketchbook idea...

Would it be possible to script these to wrap around another figure body part or prop, e.g. to form a spiral band of braids up the length of V4's arm? If that makes sense...?

Quote - Would it be possible to script these to wrap around another figure body part or prop, e.g. to form a spiral band of braids up the length of V4's arm? If that makes sense...?

the new zb4r4 insert brush will do that. just create the shape you need repeated and draw where you want it to go. you can even cap it with different shapes on both ends if thats what you want. No need to write a script.

~Shane

I got the idea by watching a video about zb4r4. I'm not going to buy anything to do this - it's a hobby - solving puzzles - doing what other people pay for, using only my brain, not my money. grin

This is not a problem I need to solve for some job. This is what I do to avoid doing my actual job, which at the moment is fixing bugs in a product I designed that is in beta testing.

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Cage published a Poser script that will do chains and ropes around figure/body/prop things.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2798819&page=15#message_3775040

[EDIT = had wrong script link]

http://www.the.cage.page.phantom3d.net/looper/loopy.html

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Yes... zb4r4... that'll be where I got the idea for my suggestion too I expect, as I've just been going through the new features pdf.

The idea that this sort of stuff can be done, procedurally, within Poser is intriguing though...

EDIT: Yes... and I was probably thinking of that Cage script too... I have seen it before.

Me loves the shaders!

Quote - Render.

Right. I was mainly talking to monkey tho, since i know he has zb.

numbers make my brain hurt. I failed pre-algebra 4 times before i finally said screw it. if it's anything more complicated than simple division i have no use for it. lol. pencils are for drawing, not calculating. (I got through algebra in college tho... barely)

Nice shaders Bill.

~Shane

Quote - Right. I was mainly talking to monkey tho, since i know he has zb.

numbers make my brain hurt. I failed pre-algebra 4 times before i finally said screw it. if it's anything more complicated than simple division i have no use for it. lol. pencils are for drawing, not calculating. (I got through algebra in college tho... barely)

Nice shaders Bill.

~Shane

I was an English Major, I've got some idea how you feel.

@Daz3d
@ShareCG

Lovely shapes and renders BB.

I've been thinking along similar lines (and have ZB where part of the idea formed). I've done some chain animations (poorly rendered by most peoples standards here) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFKZblRPFpM&feature=player_embedded.

That got me thinking about hair - you could use a script to build flat poly lengths (say 1 poly wide by 10 polys long), UV mapped to a transmapped hair type bump/texture, and anchor them to the figures scalp, all pointing out in some sort of ordered way (which I suspect is the sort of thing BB's script could do). Then use the cloth room to apply gravity to the polys to settle the hair into a nature pose. Anyway, was a hair-brained idea (excuse the pun).

Creator of PoserPhysics
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I so want to do some hairstyling scripts. That sounds interesting, Paul.

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I made a promo stage set. (Airplane is by Bazze)

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Promo shot from above. No lights!

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Promo of a shoe - (by idler168)

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UV mapped so it takes generic textures.

I love generic UV mapping - a mapping where you don't have to go draw in some UV template. Being able to just use any procedural or image without any fuss makes sense to me.

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Bill, I think modern jets have more of a matte or eggshell finish, could be wrong though. I guess it depends on my reference I'm comparing yours to.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

i love this thread

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Love this thread too! Would also love to have that Emitter object. Is that going to be part of some package sometime, BB?

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

Quote - Bill, I think modern jets have more of a matte or eggshell finish, could be wrong though. I guess it depends on my reference I'm comparing yours to.

I didn't even look. I'm gonna say I was shooting for a plastic model of an A4, not an actual A4. grin It is, after all, the size of a sneaker here.

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Quote - Love this thread too! Would also love to have that Emitter object. Is that going to be part of some package sometime, BB?

It could be. I find that although it looks cool, it doesn't really perform better than a scaled sphere. The big advantage is it only shines where you want it to, because of the collar, and it only glows on one side.

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With the collar, you're limiting the spread of the light... does that also make the light more intense where it is "pointing"?

______________

Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM

Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3

Only if I make it 100% white. Otherwise it's not contributing much compared to the central lit disk.

And if you change it to black, it absorbs all the light that hits it, so it makes things darker - more constrasty - than if you had the glowing disk alone.

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Cool. Sounds like could have some interesting effects.

______________

Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM

Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3

Yes, more contrast might be interesting. I agree.

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

Hair styling has been my pet/side project for a long time now, but yet to make a break-thru. I think poly-based transmapped hair is the way forward (rather than stand hair) since it more closely imitates the natural collectiveness of hair strands, and your ability to construct polys in a patterned way could be a way of achieving that. It's a matter of growing poly/transmapped hair from a dynamic hair skullcap, then somehow applying gravity and collisions to it. I tried using the cloth room to drape hair strands, and it seems theoretically doable, but would take a lot of work.

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Well... maybe it will be better, but I'm not convinced that strand based hair isn't the answer. We do need a more robust Hair room and hair tools, but even with what we've got... have you seen the results Carodan gets with the Hair room?

______________

Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM

Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3

The promo stage set is very interesting. The model I'm making at the moment... a set, kind of inspired by the interior of the classic series Doctor Who TARDIS... I've been thinking primarily about how it will work as a big emitter, or assembly of emitters, to illuminate, and shade, the scenes I set up within it...

those procedural geoms look very good IMVHO. this time I'm not gonna say "maybe SM will buy them" as the last time I said it, they didn't buy bill's items. I hate being a deal killer :crying:

monkey, I recall bill did a set like that using one of the sci-fi corridors. alot of light-emitting panels along the walls, ceiling, floor IIRC.

if the jet takes off, it will need math magic flaming exhaust

♥ My Gallery Albums ♥ My YT ♥ Party in the CarrarArtists Forum ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff

I had almost no time to play today. But I did achieve an important milestone in my geometry toolkit.

There is a square path with rounded corners, expressed as a parametric function.

This path is then stretched in the vertical axis to form a square-spiral.

Following that path, I extrude an oscillating and evolving cross section.

This particular shape is pointless, but it assembles and demonstrates a number of important techniques that I will need later.

It contains 86400 polygons.

I know that the ZBrush guys have all this worked out already, but I'm enjoying figuring it out from first principles.

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The code.

def pfRoundRect(xs, zs, r):
        hxs = xs * .5
        hzs = zs * .5
        def f(t):
                qt = t % 1.25
                if qt <= 1:
                        v = Vector(hxs+r, 0, hzs - zs * qt)
                else:
                        v = Vector(r, 0, 0) >> YRot(360 * (qt - 1)) >> Trans(hxs, 0, -hzs)
                q = floor(t / 1.25)
                v << YRot(90 * q)
                return v
        return f

def splineTransform1(f, t):
        dt = .001
        tp = t + dt / 2
        tn = t - dt / 2
        p = f(t)
        dp = (f(tp) - f(tn)) * (1.0 / dt)
        tx = MatrixFromVector(dp)
        tx.w = p
        return tx

f = pfRoundRect(3 * feet, 3 * feet, 3 * inch)

pl = PolyList()
shape = ucircleSOUTH(3 * inch, 36) >> Scale(.5, 1, 1) 
pa = None
for t in lerps(0, 25, 300 * 8):
        tx = splineTransform1(f, t) * Trans(0, t * feet / 5, 0)
        tx = Scale((30 - t) / 30) * <br></br>                      Scale(1 + .5 * sin(2 * 2 * pi * 5 * ((t/5) ** 2) / 1.25)) * <br></br>                      Trans(-3 * inch, 0, 0) * tx
        pb = shape >> tx
        if pa:
                pl << pb.bridge(pa)
        pa = pb
pl.weld()
loadPL(pl)

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Nice work Ted!

Earlier tests.

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Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

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Quote - > Quote - Bill, I think modern jets have more of a matte or eggshell finish, could be wrong though. I guess it depends on my reference I'm comparing yours to.

I didn't even look. I'm gonna say I was shooting for a plastic model of an A4, not an actual A4. grin It is, after all, the size of a sneaker here.

Ah, models planes are completely differnet. I've actually done one or two myself before, but not that well.

Also that generic UV mapping stuff sounds interesting.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

dreamlandmodels (Tom) is a master of the generic UV layout. He does not UV map objects in a way that results in your need to use a template. Almost every part of a prop he makes is designed to use any generally flat UV-based image or procedural.

A classic example of this technique is my color chip prop, aka the rounded board.

I will show you.

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BB, if you keep this up, I can see a new window appearing in the Poser UI sooner than later!

O_o

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

Here is my board. I use this in great multitude as the thumbnail or "color chip" for a lot of materials.

One of these is flipped over so you can see the back.

The wood texture that is loaded on it is not seamless. But it looks like it is.

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Here's another texture on it.

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A portrait of Lincoln hopefully reveals how it works.

The mapping of the top and the four sides is such that if you took those polygons and forcibly smashed them flat, in a rubbery stretchy way, the original image fills them exactly.

The bottom face is just the image reversed.

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The corner does not reconcile a repeating pattern very well - the cheat is revealed.

But - you don't see it on most textures.

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Some more examples.

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On furniture we have places where we want that wrap-around seamlessness even if the texture is not seamless. But we also have places where we want to artifically create seams.

For example, each drawer in a chest should look like it's a different piece of wood. But we want to use the same generic texture on the whole thing.

So Tom arranged the drawer faces so that they are cut out of the generic texture from different areas, and different orientations. It's still all one texture on the piece, but it looks like it was made with custom textures because there are discontinuities where they should be, and continuities where they should be.

But - we can use any texture on the piece - anything at all !

Lots of people think we're using seamless textures - we're not. Some of them I made seamless, but I didn't have to.

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Wow, this is really cool stuff you guys are doing. As for the board, yeah except for that one area with the one texture, you probably wouldn't notice the cheat unless you were paying a ton of technical attention to it.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

So is the UV mapping on e.g. your color chip what's termed a "planar" projection, in Hexagon, BB?

Or is it "cubic"?

Or something else?

I've been using the planar projection option on the Tardis wall prop I've been working on, and that seems to work pretty well with the various singles (e.g. the marbles) from your an Tom's furniture sets.

Instead, making an unwrapped UV map, either manually, or using Photoshop's refactor UV maps option doesn't give me workable results (although I think these options would if I was instead painting a texture onto / for the model).

Cheers

I don't know modeling tools names for UV mappings - and I never used Hex.

I'm somewhat confident that "planar" means purely 2D. For example, you use the X,Y coordinates (scaled of course) to map to an image, and just ignore Z. That's planar. So, no I'm not doing planar.

A box or cubic mapping would probably not be it, either. I believe in that there are six planar maps set up in a box shape. For each polygon, you look at which box it most closely faces and then planar map to that.

I don't know what to call this mapping. Smash the box flat mapping?

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"smash the box flat" as opposed to "gently unwrap the box along its seams"?

Yeah, playing around some more with the planar map, the sides of my Tardis wall prop... which is similar to a plank, but with those circular, hexagonally arranged, indents in the front... the sides are not right with the planar... the edge pixels are just stretched or smeared down the sides.

Front and back work okay.

Closest result I get in Hexagon is with the cubic projection, scaling that to fit... but its not the same deal...

I am plagued with questions about the perception of color!

I have been doing my own investigations, as well as studying published research.

This was prompted by my attempt to assemble a large collection of colors in an upcoming shader set - 11 shades of achromatic black-gray-white and 89 colorful colors.

Three things overwhelmed me:

Attempting to name the colors was a huge effort. There is incredible disagreement about color names. Google "chartreuse" images and be astonished that these people are using the same word for all these colors.
Attempting to even classify them into broad categories led to difficulties.
I don't think perceived brightness is well understood.

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Examine this image.

Each rank is supposed to be the same hue. But look at the yellow rank - red is top, so move three ranks over from there. Now look at the darker versions (outer pawns). They look olive to me - not at all yellow.

The rank just to the right of red is clearly orange, IMO. What is the name just to the left?!? Raspberry?

How about between orange and yellow. It's very distinctive - shouldn't that have a name? Mustard?

Why do I resort to foods when I don't know a color's name?

Do you think that within each rank, the change in brightness is perceptually equal?

How about in the achromatic (gray scale) row at the bottom?

I will reveal the brightness scale I used to create the values within a rank later.

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I've always considered colour perception to be fairly relative...

As I understand it, biologically males and females perceive colours differently.. for starters.

Hmmm... citation needed there... googles aha, here you go...

http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2007/07/14/do-women-perceive-color-differ-3/

Well... reading that, there seems to be some evidence of biological variations in colour perception?

How I would have done it...

From red at the top, in a clockwise fashion around the inner ring:

Red, Orange, Yellow-Orange, Yellow, Chartreuse, Yellow-green, Green, Grass, Turquoise, Teal, Sky, Light Blue, Blue, Purple, Violet, Violet-Pink, Magenta, Red-Violet.

And then each darker step would have the name and the percentage of black that has been added.

The Gray scale would be White, the percentage of gray (such as 10% Gray, 40% Gray, etc) and Black.

Just to throw in what my perceptions and opinions are...all 2 cents that they're worth, heh.

花 | 美 | 花美 | 花火
...It's a pun.

Monkey Cloud, that article is like saying blonds blow better bubbles while skydiving in a hurricane than red heads.

Names of colour are meaningless, people have no colour memory.

Your colour wheel should be a sphere, populated with ovals (yes I realize ovals are 2d), and no gloss. Any finish is a whole new ball game.

Attached Link: http://www.pantone.com/pages/pantone/category.aspx?ca=8

For color references, Pantone seriously has made it easy. They have tons of books with charts on the different colors, making it easy to, well, "pick a name". They have software, as well, but the cost is steeper. (I use them as a reference for dyeing wool, and we just bought the Kids' book, as it doesn't have all the extra stuff we don't need. YMMV)

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You dye wool? Hmmm...I think there is a sitemail sometime in your future...

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花 | 美 | 花美 | 花火
...It's a pun.

Quote - The rank just to the right of red is clearly orange, IMO. What is the name just to the left?!? Raspberry?

Claret!

Quote - How about between orange and yellow. It's very distinctive - shouldn't that have a name? Mustard?

Ochre?

Quote - Monkey Cloud, that article is like saying blonds blow better bubbles while skydiving in a hurricane than red heads.

Not really to that extreme though. What the article is saying is that women that can use all four pigments in the eyes are able to distiguish various shades of colors that three or less pigmented eyes can't. I'll never see those color hues, I don't understand them and it would be like trying to explain the color green to someone who is colorblind in that spectrum. So technically, yes, some women can see better color range then other women and men. :P

To find names for colors I would have just grabbed a bunch of paint chips and took the names off those.

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Quote - Monkey Cloud, that article is like saying blonds blow better bubbles while skydiving in a hurricane than red heads.

Names of colour are meaningless, people have no colour memory.

Your colour wheel should be a sphere, populated with ovals (yes I realize ovals are 2d), and no gloss. Any finish is a whole new ball game.

He he... I disagree...

Red heads definitely blow better bubbles, in most extreme scenarios

Course, my red head may be another guy's strawberry blonde...

Yeah... not sure how well that article backed up my vague notion... LOL.

I do agree colour names are pretty tricky. Pantone's system, or a similar route, would likely be a good bet??

name them after their hexadecimal numbers?

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Quote - I've always considered colour perception to be fairly relative...

As I understand it, biologically males and females perceive colours differently.. for starters.

Hmmm... citation needed there... googles aha, here you go...

http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2007/07/14/do-women-perceive-color-differ-3/

Well... reading that, there seems to be some evidence of biological variations in colour perception?

My concern about color classification is not about relative color perception, or even about differences amongst various humans, although I recognize these as factors.

I'm thinking more about simple classification systems, as an aid to finding the color you want.

For example, I have attempted, via math, to classify my colors into the following broad color categories:

A) Achromatic

B) Blue

C) Cyan

G) Green

M) Magenta

O) Orange (and browns)

R) Red

Y) Yellow

I based the classification on the traditional "hue" angle, as used in an HSV color picker.

Imagine my surprise, then, when I found olive green classified as yellow. To me it's not even close to yellow - it's absolutely green. But in terms of hue measurement, it's solidly in the yellow band. (My solution was to nudge the color a bit out of the yellow band, so that the classifier would agree with me, rather than update the classifier and risk moving other colors around. It's a big job to re-build the thumbnails.)

This led me to investigate color perception. I found this interesting researching that confirmed my personal observation. As a color gets darker, whatever green is in it becomes more emphasized.

http://www.uv.es/psicologica/articulos1.04/2-LILLO.pdf

I want to emphasize that I'm not picking these colors on the basis of some abstract desire for even use of the color wheel. I've made no such attempt. I selected colors I like and find useful and avoided a good chunk of colors (pinks) that I just don't think are that commonly needed.

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Quote - How I would have done it...

From red at the top, in a clockwise fashion around the inner ring:

Red, Orange, Yellow-Orange, Yellow, Chartreuse, Yellow-green, Green, Grass, Turquoise, Teal, Sky, Light Blue, Blue, Purple, Violet, Violet-Pink, Magenta, Red-Violet.

Just to throw in what my perceptions and opinions are...all 2 cents that they're worth, heh.

I used Cyan, instead of Teal, and fewer categories than I show in this wheel, but I largely agree with a lot of these names.

I find the two-name names less useful. I prefer Celadon over Yellow-green, for example. Thus, my question about raspberry.

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> Quote - Names of colour are meaningless, people have no colour memory.

And yet if I named it Color #74 it would be even more useless. I think Candy Apple Red is a great name, myself, and I know EXACTLY what color that is.

Quote - Your colour wheel should be a sphere, populated with ovals (yes I realize ovals are 2d), and no gloss. Any finish is a whole new ball game.

I disagree, based on my goals. I'm not trying to make a color wheel. I'm trying to decide on colors to include in the set and I have to limit myself to 100. It helps to see them as they will be used, such as in car paint, to decide if I have a redundant pair that are so similar that you can only tell them apart when there is no gloss.

I am building and examining many levels of gloss, though.

Here's a sampling of 14 of my new shaders, all based on one of my color choices, which I decided to call Amber - 215, 150, 45.

On the left are the seven new BB Glossy. On the right are Candy Paints.

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Quote - For color references, Pantone seriously has made it easy. They have tons of books with charts on the different colors, making it easy to, well, "pick a name". They have software, as well, but the cost is steeper. (I use them as a reference for dyeing wool, and we just bought the Kids' book, as it doesn't have all the extra stuff we don't need. YMMV)

Really? I looked there. My "Amber" is 7604 CP - I like my name better.

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> Quote - > Quote - The rank just to the right of red is clearly orange, IMO. What is the name just to the left?!? Raspberry? > > Claret! > > > Quote - How about between orange and yellow. It's very distinctive - shouldn't that have a name? Mustard? > > Ochre?

Yellow Ochre almost, but not ochre alone. There is also red ochre, purple, and brown.

I actually have yellow ochre as one of my chosen colors. See attached.

[NOTE: This does not look the same in a browser as it does in Poser. I don't know why.]

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Quote - To find names for colors I would have just grabbed a bunch of paint chips and took the names off those.

Been doing that. The trouble is that when I see one I like and cross reference other sources for general agreement, I find big problems. Like my chartreuse example.

I used a bunch from Crayola because I couldn't settle the matters, and I think childhood is cool.

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> Quote - name them after their hexadecimal numbers?

That doesn't help you find them or remember them.

What's easier to remember: c364c3 or Fuchsia?

By the way, that was inspired by the Crayola Fuchsia, which I didn't think was perfect so I adjusted it to what I wanted, but kept the name. Crayola's is c154c1.

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Fuchsia Candy Paint.

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Fuchsia Candy Glitter.

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Oh, I do love that color! I am a purple person. Not blue purples but red purples....mmmm Siberian Amethysts, I have two of those stones in rings.....

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I shall refrain from making grabbyhands at the Candy Glitter shader and simply try to be patient. ^_^

Are the new BB Glossy the ones that work with either specular or IDL lighting automatically?

花 | 美 | 花美 | 花火
...It's a pun.

Going with the Crayola (etc) names sounds like as good a route as any to me

My favourite colour name is "Monkey Green" of course...

Quote - As a color gets darker, whatever green is in it becomes more emphasized.

Back when I was painting model railway scenery, we often used to make greens by mixing yellow and black. "Real" green was too bright and didn't look realistic, so that was reserved for highlighting. I'd assumed this effect was something to do with paint formulation, but this is an interesting explanation. It makes sense, since the human eye is most sensitive to green wavelengths when you're discussing monochromatic light. The CIE colour triangle also contains more green hues than other colours, most of which can't be reproduced by any means, by the way. The human eye can perceive a lot of shades that can't be displayed or printed. (I did a lot of work on colour perception and colorimetry while experimenting on colour TV systems a long time ago. Made my head spin. Then I designed a monochromator for a scientific instrument company. I still don't understand colour perception though, sorry...)

Quote - This does not look the same in a browser as it does in Poser. I don't know why.

Some browsers implement something called colour management, a concept I was only recently made aware of. I'm reading up on it now. It would have profound implications for digital artists displaying their works online, it seems.

BB, it's a shame you're not in the UK: there's a Stephen Fry program on Radio 4 tomorrow morning about the language of colour.

Maybe you can get it on iPlayer?

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Here's a site that will show if your browser supports color management.

There's a lot to be said about color management in a CGI workflow, but BB's sketchbook isn't the place.

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PoserPro 11 - Units: Metres

Adobe CC 2017

Quote - > Quote - I've always considered colour perception to be fairly relative...

As I understand it, biologically males and females perceive colours differently.. for starters.

Hmmm... citation needed there... googles aha, here you go...

http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2007/07/14/do-women-perceive-color-differ-3/

Well... reading that, there seems to be some evidence of biological variations in colour perception?

My concern about color classification is not about relative color perception, or even about differences amongst various humans, although I recognize these as factors.

I'm thinking more about simple classification systems, as an aid to finding the color you want.

For example, I have attempted, via math, to classify my colors into the following broad color categories:

A) Achromatic

B) Blue

C) Cyan

G) Green

M) Magenta

O) Orange (and browns)

R) Red

Y) Yellow

I based the classification on the traditional "hue" angle, as used in an HSV color picker.

Imagine my surprise, then, when I found olive green classified as yellow. To me it's not even close to yellow - it's absolutely green. But in terms of hue measurement, it's solidly in the yellow band. (My solution was to nudge the color a bit out of the yellow band, so that the classifier would agree with me, rather than update the classifier and risk moving other colors around. It's a big job to re-build the thumbnails.)

This led me to investigate color perception. I found this interesting researching that confirmed my personal observation. As a color gets darker, whatever green is in it becomes more emphasized.

http://www.uv.es/psicologica/articulos1.04/2-LILLO.pdf

I want to emphasize that I'm not picking these colors on the basis of some abstract desire for even use of the color wheel. I've made no such attempt. I selected colors I like and find useful and avoided a good chunk of colors (pinks) that I just don't think are that commonly needed.

tink pink?
nail shlaq

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Yes nails, hmm. Maybe I should do a specific set for nail polish colors. You don't need all the low-gloss versions for that.

See, each time I pick another color, I have 7 shaders in that color to distribute in each set. The two sets are HUGE.

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Here's the library listing Super Gloss, one of the 14 shaders.

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A very nice selection of colours there, I think, BB

I wondered if there should be an off-white category. Notice how many off-whites are represented in the orange (O) group. These subtle variations just seemed necessary to me.

There is a very strong representation of red-orange-yellow, because it seemed to me that you need more tiny variations here than in the blue-magenta area.

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Every time I think I've done the final review, I trip over something. This time it's the yellows. Have I over-represented the yellow group - is there an important color I'm missing that should make one of these three be dropped?

In the back is Super Gloss, front is Candy Satin Flame.

Left to right is Amber, Insignia, and Ochre - three yellows.

They are almost indistinguishable in Super Gloss, but in Candy Satin Flame they are really different. I think all three are needed in Candy paint, but it seems wasteful in Super Gloss. On the other hand, I don't want to deal with a different set of 100 colors for each of the 14 shaders.

And there will be more over time. I anticipate somewhere around 30 more important glossy-style shaders. I'm hoping to use the same BB100 colors for all.

This is why I'm struggling so badly - afraid to ship now in fear that I make the BB100 colors not so great for the shaders coming down the road.

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Possibly one or two more off-whites on the extremities of the green and blue groups?

Not sure if off-white needs a separate group per se, or if the above is maybe sufficient?

I guess if you come up with any color additions / improvements down the line you could always issue product updates?

I think product updates - and certainly if they're in fact an enhancement, as opposed to just fixing some niggle - are a nice bonus...

Quote - They are almost indistinguishable in Super Gloss

Actually, I can distinguish quite easily between all three of them in Super Gloss.

花 | 美 | 花美 | 花火
...It's a pun.

I can see three separate shades also.

You may be missing a brilliant or bright yellow, if anything...

the colour of this helmet:

Perhaps a slightly lighter, more intense, "artificial banana" yellow, I think, than the Flame Yellow you've got in there already??

Maybe not...

In both Super Gloss and Candy Satin Flame, I'd say I can, personally, distinguish between the inner and outer colours... but not so much the two outer colours... although I can still distinguish them.

I can see the difference between the three as well.

Of course, part of the problem here is the same problem that comes up with the Adelson Checker Shadow Illusion: how a human interprets colours or shades depends a great deal on what it surrounding the object you are looking at. I would wager great sums that were you to separate the three objects with something of very different colours, so that they'd be yellowish objects surrounded by something very different, most people wouldn't be able to detect any difference between them at all.

Quote - I wondered if there should be an off-white category. Notice how many off-whites are represented in the orange (O) group. These subtle variations just seemed necessary to me.

There is a very strong representation of red-orange-yellow, because it seemed to me that you need more tiny variations here than in the blue-magenta area.

At least you aren't dealing with real paint. We built a house recently, and we had it painted what we thought was a warm beige color. We didn't pay attention to the numbering on the paint sample (which indicated that it was in the orange family.) Under some lighting conditions (natural afternoon light) it is definitely orange.

Quote - how a human interprets colours or shades depends a great deal on what is surrounding the object you are looking at.

I agree.

I also understand the reasoning you need names for colours now, and going with crayons seems a mighty fine choice.

I like the idea of food names,

because I,

well,

love food!

wondering how the glass of milk is looking after the new IC?

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I'm working once again on procedural wood.

While researching the subject, I ran across this statement:

"it is fairly easy to define a convincing woodgrain texture procedurally."

Along with the image above.

Apparently, I do not understand the meaning of the word "convincing".

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ROFLMAO!

:lol:

My unachievable goal for several years has been 100% procedural pine planks with knots.

I'm closer than ever before, but still not convincing, IMO. But I'm making progress.

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I would have to say not bad for a newbie :-)

Actually Wow!

Tommy like!

That's pretty damn good!

The color or tone of the knots looks a little to different from the colors / tones elsewhere in the wood... I think. Which... I think... is what is jarring a little bit for me. But the placement of the knots is perfectly convincing I think.

Can you place subtle, inset rings within the knots... somehow?

The rest of the texture is fantastic, I reckon... and the knots are not too far off.

Actually, looking at some images of pine planks... I think the knots are even closer than I first thought... and for pine the color is probably correct.

It's the oak flooring in my house I was looking at, in comparison, before... which is obviously not quite the same.

Quote - BB, it's a shame you're not in the UK: there's a Stephen Fry program on Radio 4 tomorrow morning about the language of colour.

Maybe you can get it on iPlayer?

I missed this. for reference in the future - all BBC Radio stations are on Iplayer / their own sites Play Again and open to the whole world. only TV channels are geolocked to the UK only.

Yup, I can also distinguish the three shades.

The wooden teapot is really convincing. You're going to have your work cut out to beat that, BB.

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I think the teapot creator is using the same definition of the word "convincing" that politicians use when talking about their platforms. I'm sure if the creator called the teapot "realistic" it would be in the same spirit as a "realistic" budget or a "realistic assessment of our international goals" etc, etc.

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It's driving me crazy. I can't look up the math formula for "wood knots" in a physics book, so I have to guess and keep trying things. Arggggh!

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Darker stain.

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go ahead and ship them, bill. they will buy them, but be patient if they don't read the read-me. these LED/LCD monitors are known to have problems with yellow. perception on an individual basis more or less differs from reality. I dunno about CRT.

You nailed it!

That one looks superb!

:biggrin:

the stuff you do with python is amazing!!!! looks like the poserverse is LEAVING the plastic age

BB i can sent you a blank check to fill it with any number you want if you will sent me these shaders!...really when are you planning to sell them? Those golds are just...perfect!

That's starting to look really good. It looks a bit too random for pine IMO.

Quote - I made a promo stage set. (Airplane is by Bazze)

This is very interesting...do you care putting this for sale BB? I would like to try it for something i m thinking of...

On the knots... Look for how wood is sawn. A knot is the base of a limb (or the dormant bud of one), with a conical cross-section, therefore they have a specific relationship to the grain pattern. Which means they will show differently in wood that is flat sawn versus quarter-sawn. But as a quick-and-dirty, a wider spacing between the grains means that part of the board is closer to flat to the normal of the tree, thus knots will be circular; a tighter spacing means you are moving towards perpendicular, and encountering the knots longitudinally instead of in smallest cross-section.

Anyhow...starting point for research there....

Quote - > Quote - How I would have done it...

From red at the top, in a clockwise fashion around the inner ring:

Red, Orange, Yellow-Orange, Yellow, Chartreuse, Yellow-green, Green, Grass, Turquoise, Teal, Sky, Light Blue, Blue, Purple, Violet, Violet-Pink, Magenta, Red-Violet.

Just to throw in what my perceptions and opinions are...all 2 cents that they're worth, heh.

I used Cyan, instead of Teal, and fewer categories than I show in this wheel, but I largely agree with a lot of these names.

I find the two-name names less useful. I prefer Celadon over Yellow-green, for example. Thus, my question about raspberry.

Actually, and altough it doesn't appear to be, Cyan (as used in printers) is pure blue,

also called primary blue in subtractive synthesis (? not sure of the translation).

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Bagginsbill's Sketchbook