Okay we have another lovely female 3rd party figure that just came out, but I just have to ask again--where are the men? Any progress on any new male figures?????

Unfortunately, in Poserland there inequality in a reverse direction. More femmes and more things for them. I agree wholeheartedly with you that there needs to be a larger variety of male figures and clothing for them. I'm helping my best friend with a novel she's writing (doing Poser illustrations and character images) and so far the cast is 4 males and two females. I don't have enough clothing peices for the male characters and I'm on a budget. More stuff for the guys! chanting :)

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

the gallery has a preponderence of lady renders.

a category for male pinup would be kewl.

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What proportion of those who model human figures are women, I wonder?

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

An old topic, much discussed around here. I post a render of a male character and get a smattering of views. I post a render of a female character, and I get more views in a single day than the male character gets in a week!

Male figure:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2352889&user_id=229244&np&np

Female figure:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2354348&user_id=229244&np&np

That's just the way things are around here!

This question has been posed several times over the 12 years I've been on the forum-no new answers for you. The why has been answered. It's what it is and not likely to change.

Women and men (for the most part) prefer looking at renders of female characters.

I'm not sure that women prefer to look at females, but I have only myself and my friends as evidence. Maybe it's true for a lot of others. It isn't for me. Women certainly seem to prefer to render females, in any case, though again, I don't. I just have a lot more content available for them. So I can have more variety in renders featuring females.

But if half the population definitely prefers something (and the other half has no preference), that's sufficient to skew the views significantly.

Then, once that preference is noted, it become entrenched: fewer views on male renders = less motivation to buy/make male content = less variety in male renders = fewer renders = fewer views.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

One thing's for sure, we still can't get enough of the good ol' V

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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I know that someone over at DeviantArt is modelling a male figure, possibly for use in Poser. It isn't ready yet.

Meanwhile, I prefer using male figures, and I do buy products for male figures and characters.

I follow predominantly male figure art over at DeviantArt, which has more of that ilk in its galleries than at here in Renderosity.

Eternal Hobbyist

I've seen posted here at Rendo several male figures in development. But it seems they are always in development. A couple of them looked quite nice and I would consider getting them. But then there would have to be some sort of support for converting existing clothing (which isn't a heck of a lot) to fit these new men. I've even heard that the Poser team is working on a new male figure. But so far, nothing has come out. We've got several new femmes out there now. But they'll all have the same old boyfriends.

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

Quote - What proportion of those who model human figures are women, I wonder?

This. The perception is that men don't want male figures. This is most certainly incorrect. I do damsel in distress images. Always on the lookout for distinctive male characters. Have lots of females. Anyone get the hint?

Quote - What proportion of those who model human figures are women, I wonder?

i really dont think this is it.

why should someone put the same amount (or more) work into a male figure when they know that the most they can shoot for is 1/5th the sales of a comparable female figure?

and this is the answer to all of the weekly Poser forum threads such as:

'Why arent there more nurse shoes in the marketplace?'

'Why is there so much slutwear?'

'Why are the characters in the marketplace idealized? Why arent there more chubby and out of shape characters?'

the simple answer to these and similar questions is because thats what people want. Merchants dont set the trends in the MP - customers do.

Also, the vocal minority who post in these forums represent ~1% of the customer base. Even if every single person who weighed in in a thread asking for nursing flats, muumuus or Peruvian train conductor outfits in the forums actually bought the item when a merchant made it (and they DONT: when its crunch time its usually 'oh that looks exactly like what i wanted, i added it to my wishlist' or 'ooooh pretty!! ill buy that next month'), its still not even a fraction of the customer base.

Perhaps in time Renderosity can add some sortof pre-order/wishlist feature where customers can start a request thread for an item and people can click to pre-order. this will give merchants a much clearer idea of how much interest there is and whether its worth it or not to make that item.

its hard enough starting out as a merchant. you have the decision of catering to the mainstream and swimming upstream against thousands of other merchants doing the same.... or you can swim in a smaller pond and carve out a niche for yourself catering to the alternative 'request' markets, but risk spending weeks making something and experiencing pitiful sales when the people who requested it dont follow through and actually buy it.

making a finished product involves a lot of work. even many people who dabble in 3D dont understand this: theres many a step between something you model in a 3D app and a finished, packaged, tested and polished product ready for the marketplace. unless they are independantly wealthy or retired, most merchants - unless theyre attempting to carve out a niche for themselves - cannot afford to spend that much time on a product that will only interest less than a tenth of the market. if they really want niche products, then customers can help by actually following through and buying - not just wishlisting or complimenting - these products when theyre actually made.

I beg to differ a little with you on one point...

Some of the new figures released in the past couple of years have been given away for free, so their marketability as a source of revenue for the creator couldn't have been a prime motivation.

How many free male figures have been made? I mean, that were made and released originally at no cost. They would have to be made by someone who wanted to make one simply out of the joy of doing so. If male modellers don't seem inclined to do it for just that reason, I'm simply wondering whether females ones might, and if so, how many were out there compared to the number of men -- because even if they might be more inclined to do it, if there aren't very many, the chance of even one of them taking on such a monumental project is quite small.

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Quote - Some of the new figures released in the past couple of years have been given away for free, so their marketability as a source of revenue for the creator couldn't have been a prime motivation. How many free male figures have been made? I mean, that were made and released originally at no cost. They would have to be made by someone who wanted to make one simply out of the joy of doing so.

agreed.

for the record: i dont find texturing male bodyhair and scrotums to be a very enjoyable pastime.

Glad I'm not a merchant so I can waste my time for whatever I want. :-)

But if I were, I'd do exactly what BlackHearted suggested.

Actually, I wouldn't even waste my time with full body custom sculpts, but rather do dial spins with a merchant resource texture.

You know, the ones with the little made up background storys and cutesy names that are a "must-have new and exiting addition to your runtime".

The average user can't tell anyway if you spent 12 hours sculpting in ZBrush or 12 minutes spinning some body morph dials.

I'm pretty sure next to "hair coloration add-ons", those have the best "time spent vs money earned" ratio.

;-)

Women are prettier? :tongue1:

Quote - Actually, I wouldn't even waste my time with full body custom sculpts, but rather do dial spins with a merchant resource texture. You know, the ones with the little made up background storys and cutesy names that are a "must-have new and exiting addition to your runtime".

The average user can't tell anyway if you spent 12 hours sculpting in ZBrush or 12 minutes spinning some body morph dials.

I'm pretty sure next to "hair coloration add-ons", those have the best "time spent vs money earned" ratio.

;-)

perhaps - but they have no staying power in the marketplace. my gears grind pretty slow, but in over a decade here ive watched many flavor of the month vendors come and go.

GND4 was released 5 years ago and is still selling strong. the months of time invested was highly worth it.

but yes, for the most part im sure spamming quickie products every week has the best time vs money earned ratio - and much lower stress.

Joke: No body seen the; "Deflate breasts", dials in the new figures :-)

@ JoePublic
Great moprhs man. Well done. All M3's? Right?

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - Women are prettier? :tongue1:

I think just about all 22 year olds with mostly flawless skin and athletic bodies are pretty, and that's the type that dominates the marketplace. 35+ year old female characters (texture/morph sets) are even less evident in the marketplace than male characters of that age. So maybe at 35+ the men are prettier? :P

Quote - for the record: i dont find texturing male bodyhair and scrotums to be a very enjoyable pastime.

I can't imagine wanting to look too closely at hi res pictures of someone's snatch. But if you want sales of female characters, it seems you have to at least give it a bit of effort.

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Quote - Joke: No body seen the; "Deflate breasts", dials in the new figures :-)

^hey, i make small breast morphs :)
id prefer if all my figures had A-B cup boobs :P

but there is direct relationship between amount of views and breast size. this is true not just in the 3D/art community but out in the real world as well: go ask a woman who augmented from A cups to DDs how much more attention shes suddenly getting.

@BH
Yeah, untill gravity takes over with age.

I prefer A to B cups too.

Its the first thing I do on each and every new figure.
Deflate the balloons. :-)

Sorry, but most of them can not be called breasts. Are not worht the name.

Your figures are an exeption. => And they are a lot more attractive that way.

But then, when I show my figures (with the smaller breasts), I get shot at too.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - > Quote - for the record: i dont find texturing male bodyhair and scrotums to be a very enjoyable pastime.

I can't imagine wanting to look too closely at hi res pictures of someone's snatch. But if you want sales of female characters, it seems you have to at least give it a bit of effort.

takes about 15 min to texture, so its no big deal. hands, feet, ears, etc take exponentially longer.
body hair is just a PITA to texture because its more difficult to blend and never really looks right 'painted on'. neither does a hairless male texture. eventually well have fast, full body hair from the hair room and this will no longer be a problem.

but even if the work was totally equal, and the potential profits were as well, id still be more inclined to create a female because theyre far more aesthetically pleasing. but thats not the case: males are more work, for far less potential profit.

when 90% of the galleries are NMIATWAS renders, youll see more male figures.

I guess peeps are just not using their galleries correctly.

If you want your male renders to get more views, put a woman in the background somewhere, make her face the subject of your thumbnail, and put a nudity tag on the image. Or put a nudity/violence tag on the image and use the default mature content thumbnail.

Surely views on galleries in renderosity cannot be an important goal for anyone other than vendors. I've looked at the "art charts" here. We don't really think sort of popularity is a measure of image quality, do we? And if not, why would we care how many view our images got.

For vendors, well, I expect it is important. I've bought quite a few items after seeing my favs use them in a render.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - males are more work, for far less potential profit. when 90% of the galleries are NMIATWAS renders, youll see more male figures.

Totally cannot dispute this... except, I think it will be NMIAWWAG because he carries a gun and hangs out in warehouses or other sorts of seedy urban settings.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - ...im sure spamming quickie products every week has the best time vs money earned ratio - and much lower stress.

C'mon, tell us what you really think about them, don't beat around the bush?! LOL!

Quote - So maybe at 35+ the men are prettier? :P

Given a loose shirt around the gut, we can hide it better. Thank goodness for dynamic clothes! :)

with a few talented exceptions, the only thing the art charts have ever reflected here is the amount of facebook/MSN/Skype friends someone messages to say 'o hai i uploaded another img lolz, plz comment and rate!! THX!! HUGZ!!!!11'.

by 'views' i meant 'attention' - in the galleries, store, and RL.

Quote - > Quote - So maybe at 35+ the men are prettier? :P

Given a loose shirt around the gut, we can hide it better. Thank goodness for dynamic clothes! :)

^women with big boobs can pull this off way more effectively.

boobs + loose shirt = mega muffin concealment :)

big enough boobs and the right shirt could conceal a third trimester pregnancy, LOL.

Oh, yes, you did make that clear. I think on the subject of views, I was responding more to the previous posters bemoaning the lack of views in Renderosity galleries.

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Quote - > Quote - > Quote - So maybe at 35+ the men are prettier? :P

Given a loose shirt around the gut, we can hide it better. Thank goodness for dynamic clothes! :)

^women with big boobs can pull this off way more effectively.

boobs + loose shirt = mega muffin concealment :)

big enough boobs and the right shirt could conceal a third trimester pregnancy, LOL.

Surely 35+ year old female characters in Poser content wouldn't have to be fat, just as the 35+ male characters generally aren't. Some have rather prosaic bodies, to be sure, but they're not shockingly unattractive.

I think the Poser market is less tolerant of wrinkles on women's faces. We don't even give them wrinkles when they raise their eyebrows. Every one of them has had botox.

IRL young fat girls get way more attention than 40 year old athletes.

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This guy is exceptionally talented:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=20326

He renders mostly male figures with a high degree of artistic excellence, yet I don't ever see his work in the Art Charts. If you want to find quality renders, if you're looking for small-bosomed women (I render those, too!) or men, people ARE posting them here. You just need to wade through a lot of "A Mostly Naked V4 Against a Fractal Background" renders.

Quote - This guy is exceptionally talented:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=20326

He renders mostly male figures with a high degree of artistic excellence, yet I don't ever see his work in the Art Charts. If you want to find quality renders, if you're looking for small-bosomed women (I render those, too!) or men, people ARE posting them here. You just need to wade through a lot of "A Mostly Naked V4 Against a Fractal Background" renders.

Agreed. Love his stuff. He does show up in the art charts frequently. (I check them every once in a while just to remind myself why I don't have a gallery here.) My all time fave does lots of skulls and monsters as well as men and women. Not saying no one is rendering them, but the default image does seem to be exactly as you describe. The point was made that the same person can post comparable images of a man and of a woman, and the woman will get views and the man won't.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

percentage of people with blue eyes in North America: ~15%
percentage of people with blue eyes globally: <2%

percentage of hollywood celebrities/leading actors/models with blue eyes: 50-75%?

percentage of North Americans that are overweight: approaching 70%
percentage that are obese: 34%

percentage of hollywood celebrities/leading actors/models that are overweight: <5%?

average breast size of North Americans:
B cup: 44%
C cup: 28%
D cup or larger: 1%

number of hollywood celebrities with D cup: 40-50%?
number of porn stars and pinup models with D cup or larger: 75%+?

why are people so shocked and outraged when the Poser market and galleries follows the exact same trends? the media is driven by ratings, and is a more or less accurate representation of what people want to see.

Also, and this is the truly frustrating part (speaking as a former Rendo merchant) people ask for stuff and never use it or never even download/buy it. Happens more often than not. I can not count how many times I've read things like, "I have gigs of content I haven't even used yet". That's not the kind of thing to get you motivated to create a figure you know going in will have to fight an uphill battle. Couple that with no one wanting to provide support for a male figure (I mean, let's be real - there are at LEAST 10 males in the Poser universe and maybe 3 get clothes and two of them are Michael) and you really can't make an argument why it would be worth the time to make something like a new male for the masses.

I always thought Poser had enough polygons for everybody, so we really shouldn't fight over boob-sizes.

:-)

@Vilters: Thanks. Yes, all M3.

Btw, maybe I'm weird, maybe it's the 40+ years of scale modelling, maybe my liberal european upbringing in the 70s, but when I sculpt a body is a body is a body to me.

Whether I reshape a scrotum or some boobs or a shoulder or a kneecap: It's just a wrong shape I want to turn into a correct shape.

And besides, only sculpting perfectly beautiful women would get very boring pretty fast, I guess.

;-)

Quote - Also, and this is the truly frustrating part (speaking as a former Rendo merchant) people ask for stuff and never use it or never even download/buy it. Happens more often than not.

yep.

im sure many merchants here have experienced seeing a bunch of people (claiming to speak for all customers) clamoring in a thread for a certain type of item, and then when the merchant actually takes the risk, makes it and delivers what was asked all of a sudden the people that asked for it have all kindsof excuses on why they cant buy it right now/just yet.

so what happens? they go back to making mainstream content and you end up souring another merchant towards ever taking the risk of making niche content again.

Exactly. I'm a firm believer in taking chances but at some point, after being presented with tumbleweeds, the risk taker starts to wonder why they're bothering.

Maybe the trick to releasing a figure is to not announce your progress, (which is not to imply that I am working diligently on Poser's next Ken doll/weddingcake/gay pron character.)

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Quote - im sure many merchants here have experienced seeing a bunch of people (claiming to speak for all customers) clamoring in a thread for a certain type of item, and then when the merchant actually takes the risk, makes it and delivers what was asked all of a sudden the people that asked for it have all kindsof excuses on why they cant buy it right now/just yet.

so what happens? they go back to making mainstream content and you end up souring another merchant towards ever taking the risk of making niche content again.

That's why we have so much slutware. Vendors have to make a living, too! As far as clamoring for items that subsequently don't sell, that trend extends across other creative endeavors. I've had people write to me and ask about my latest book project with apparently great interest, only to never actually BUY a copy. (All of my e-book versions are less than $3.00 each, so it's not like they're really expensive!) I can certainly understand and appreciate the frustration of vendors who invest their time and effort to create apparel for male figures, only to encounter disappointing sales.

Renderosity is what it is. We're not going to change anything by lamenting the dearth of male figures in renders, the lack of support for male figures in the Poserverse, and the popularity of buxom, scantily-clad V4 girls in the galleries.

are we in a race to make the 1st wm male figure ? ready, set ....>>

actually, how many P9/PP12 users do you estimate are out there?

maybe we should settle for a non wm new male figure?

do the helper bones make the difference?

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are we in a race to make the 1st wm male figure ? ready, set ....>>

actually, how many P9/PP12 users do you estimate are out there?

maybe we should settle for a non wm new male figure?

do the helper bones make the difference?

Lol, I thought "wm" meant "white male" at first.

The figure I'm working on is not weight mapped, but it will only work in Poser 8 and up because of some glitch that I can't get past.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Meh. I just dropped a pile of cash on male clothing, I'm working on a Webcomic and I need heros/peasants/plain old dudes to help populate it (not to mention 1/2 the major characters are male).

It's tough, for sure. Thankfully the Rogue tunic/pants have add on textures, I can mix and match so that not everyone is in the same uniform, add in some Xurge3D and Daz clothing and it's possible to kind of have a decent wardrobe for a male fantasy character.

Finding impractical armor for M3/M4 has been a pain, though. And why should Vicky have all the fun getting flesh exposed to cold air, dirt, and the occasional spitting dragon?

I might recommend a Kickstarter project for new male figures and clothing, that's a "put up or shut up" way to approach fiundng new development. If the money doesn't materialize, no big loss, you haven't spent six months or mpore for zero ROI (return on invetment).

I just want to stress that I don't think it's a Rendo or even a Poser specific issue. It's one of those things you just have to decide if you think is worth doing and either do it or don't. Even then, it's a crap shoot as to how things will turn out. However, the original question deserved a real answer as to why there may not be as many people persuing the creation of male figures or male related content.

It's a big deal to create a Poser figure for the general populace - it takes a lot of hard work and effort. People expect a lot of functionality for the lowest dollar value, so you really have to want to do it or think you can bring something truly different to the table. I just wanted to point out how frustrating it can be to go through all that and then find all that effort go to waste is a factor in possibly why there aren't as many males out there.

I think the problem is that Poser has no "pro-market".

Scale modelling was "THE" hobby in the 60's and 70's, but because of advancements in computers and video games, it was basically dead by the 80's.

But apart from the mainstream kids market, there was also a dedicated group of "serious" adult modellers who yearned for more accurate and more niche models regardless of cost.

At first it was only a small "semi-pro" cottage industry that produced high end models for them, but starting in the 90's, more and more new kit companies were founded that also catered to that "pro" market, resulting in a bigger than ever scale modeling hobby noone in the 80's would have ever dreamed about.

Back in the 80's you were lucky if one or two new kits were released each year, now it's dozends every month.

And the quality has also skyrocketed.

Back to Poser, the problem is we need customers willing to pay, let's say $150 for a set of "niche" clothing instead of $15.

History shows, we simply don't have that type of "serious" customers.

Honestly said, I really don't know, why.

Either Poser is strictly a "poor man's hobby" or Poser customers are so spoiled by all the "offers" and "deals" that they simply can't appreciate the added expense of creating something "non-mainstream" any more.

are you using those capsule thingees in P8?

What if you rigged it in P7?

M3 had a couple good impractical armors, if you don't use all the pieces. doh, can't remember the names. it had knee pads, a cozy toast protector.

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Again, still doesn't explain why no one's made a free male (that I know of) or why there is comparatively so little free content for males, yet I have downloaded three free females in the last year, four if you count V4WM, and free content for females is essentially infinite.

I guess makers of freebie male content don't get enough adoration, praise, and promises to the blood of firstborn sons?

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - the simple answer to these and similar questions is because thats what people want. Merchants dont set the trends in the MP - customersdo. Also, the vocal minority who post in these forums represent ~1% of the customer base. Even if every single person who weighed in in a thread asking for nursing flats, muumuus or Peruvian train conductor outfits in the forums actually bought the item when a merchant made it (and they DONT: when its crunch time its usually 'oh that looks exactly like what i wanted, i added it to my wishlist' or 'ooooh pretty!! ill buy that next month'), its still not even a fraction of the customer base.

Perhaps in time Renderosity can add some sortof pre-order/wishlist feature where customers can start a request thread for an item and people can click to pre-order. this will give merchants a much clearer idea of how much interest there is and whether its worth it or not to make that item.

its hard enough starting out as a merchant. you have the decision of catering to the mainstream and swimming upstream against thousands of other merchants doing the same.... or you can swim in a smaller pond and carve out a niche for yourself catering to the alternative 'request' markets, but risk spending weeks making something and experiencing pitiful sales when the people who requested it dont follow through and actually buy it.

making a finished product involves a lot of work. even many people who dabble in 3D dont understand this: theres many a step between something you model in a 3D app and a finished, packaged, tested and polished product ready for the marketplace. unless they are independantly wealthy or retired, most merchants - unless theyre attempting to carve out a niche for themselves - cannot afford to spend that much time on a product that will only interest less than a tenth of the market. if they really want niche products, then customers can help by actually following through and buying - not just wishlisting or complimenting - these products when theyre actually made.

That was basically exactly what I was going to say. I worked on a just a niche character set once. One that many forum posters said they had interest in. Spent at least a month on the project. time = money. And the sales were basically non-existant.

It was a complete waste of time and not something that I will likely do again, unless of course I become independantly wealthy at some point and get to just make stuff for giggles.

As for me personally, I do prefer the female figure and am female. I do have some use for male "things". However, the ratios are skewed, in 3d and real life.

I am: aka Velocity3d

That's the start of an interesting conversation, Joe. I won't jump on it (though I really want to) but i will say a lot of what you just said resonates with me.

Not to get too off topic but I do see a small number of people trying to raise the bar of what has been considered the norm for a Poser character up to this point. Successes and failures and the reasons for either not withstanding, it's a trend I hope will continue for all types of content. Hopefully some upcoming figures will help push that idea home.

It is in some way tied to the site (renderosity, runtimedna, etc) and in some way to the software (Poser & DazStudio). For some reason i do not know (perhaps because the Poser 4 woman was too well suited for pin up renders?), Poser and its main content sites specialized in the Naked-Vicky-in-a-Temple genre. Other sites/software specialize in different things, too. For example Vue is used mainly for rendering landscapes. There are characters for Vue as well, but the main content market focuses on various kinds of dirt, stones and plants, and the reason for that is not that there are more plants and rocks on the planet than there are humans, they just specialize because they want to (or need to) excel at one thing instead of being a jack of all trades.

If it were a universal rule that mankind wanted to see naked Vickies more than anything else, it should be common to every software and content market, but it is not; at turbosquid for example there are more male figures than female figures, and no particular lamenting of the vendors that the male figures do not sell well (at least not as far as i know). There is even one site (maleposerrotica.com), which has specialized in the male figures for poser, and if the demand for male figures is big enough that it can support a whole website (admittedly a small website), it cannot be that small, i think. It is just small here. So if you take a software specialized in naked-vicky-renders and visit a website specialized in naked-vicky-renders, i am not particularly surprised that male poser figures might appear to be somewhat underrepresented at renderosity (or runtimedna, or daz for that matter).

Quote - Either Poser is strictly a "poor man's hobby" or Poser customers are so spoiled by all the "offers" and "deals" that they simply can't appreciate the added expense of creating something "non-mainstream" any more.

Both, I expect.

Between the generosity of the freebie makers and Daz marketing (giving away free software), 3d rendering has been open to the market of utterly broke teens, single moms, and fixed income retirees, at least judging from the posts over at Daz complaining about $2 coupons not working, or their bank going into overdraft when a membership fee gets charged "too early in the month" etc, etc.

And, yes, if you give discounts too often, people feel cheated when they don't get them. If you charge excessive brokerage fees, popular vendors break away and sell for 2/3 the price, bringing down the expectations of pricing, and PC type clubs give a perception that one should get quality products for a couple of dollars.

I would absolutely pay $150 for a male version of M4 as good as GND4. But I can't prove it, and if I'm the only one who would, that's not very helpful.

The kickstarter idea, though, is actually kinda cool.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

making a list of the male figures:

Dork
Don
Will
James6
Ben
Simon - and the G2s
Ryan
Apollo - is he still around?
Michael 2 - is he the same as Don? i remember reading Judy is V2.
M3
David, Hiro 3, Luke, Matt, Freak
Hitoro
M4, H4, Freak 4
Vincent Parker - i've never actually seen him.
V4's male morph - does a male morph count?

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Quote - Again, still doesn't explain why no one's made a free male (that I know of) or why there is comparatively so little free content for males, yet I have downloaded three free females in the last year, four if you count V4WM, and free content for females is essentially infinite.

I guess makers of freebie male content don't get enough adoration, praise, and promises to the blood of firstborn sons?

I don't think it's so much about adoration as it is : Use my stuff.

Like the, "if you make it, they will come" thing just does not seem to hold true and the content creators see that. As mentioned in one form or another before, we are in the grip of a nearly concrete cycle: Creators won't create things people don't seem to want but people can't want things if creators don't create them.

Quote - It is in some way tied to the site (renderosity, runtimedna, etc) and in some way to the software (Poser & DazStudio). For some reason i do not know (perhaps because the Poser 4 woman was too well suited for pin up renders?), Poser and its main content sites specialized in the Naked-Vicky-in-a-Temple genre. Other sites/software specialize in different things, too. For example Vue is used mainly for rendering landscapes. There are characters for Vue as well, but the main content market focuses on various kinds of dirt, stones and plants, and the reason for that is not that there are more plants and rocks on the planet than there are humans, they just specialize because they want to (or need to) excel at one thing instead of being a jack of all trades. If it were a universal rule that mankind wanted to see naked Vickies more than anything else, it should be common to every software and content market, but it is not; at turbosquid for example there are more male figures than female figures, and no particular lamenting of the vendors that the male figures do not sell well (at least not as far as i know).

^vue, worldbuilder, bryce, terragen, etc have always been landscape-oriented software, therefore its no big surprise that their communities are primarily populated with landscape renders.

for a more accurate representation, go look at deviantart: it is a MIXED-MEDIUM art site that focuses on no particular genre/medium and has everything from photography to sculpting to pixel art to 3D to writing. look at which photos, renders, illustrations and stories are the most viewed/commented.

turbosquid is not an accurate representation of anything other than mass copyright infringement.

Quote - I would absolutely pay $150 for a male version of M4 as good as GND4. But I can't prove it, and if I'm the only one who would, that's not very helpful. The kickstarter idea, though, is actually kinda cool.

In total agreement, although I'd need a couple of months pre-warning so I could amend my budget to save for it. Seriously. If I had the warning and could tuck my money away, I would totally throw it at Blackhearted's face IN ADVANCE for a male to match GND4 or GNDA. But, caveat...this is because I am fully confident in his level of quality. I wouldn't throw money at just anyone's face...it has to be someone that I have a trusting consumer relationship with.

花 | 美 | 花美 | 花火
...It's a pun.

Quote - > Quote - Again, still doesn't explain why no one's made a free male (that I know of) or why there is comparatively so little free content for males, yet I have downloaded three free females in the last year, four if you count V4WM, and free content for females is essentially infinite.

I guess makers of freebie male content don't get enough adoration, praise, and promises to the blood of firstborn sons?

I don't think it's so much about adoration as it is : Use my stuff.

Like the, "if you make it, they will come" thing just does not seem to hold true and the content creators see that. As mentioned in one form or another before, we are in the grip of a nearly concrete cycle: Creators won't create things people don't seem to want but people can't want things if creators don't create them.

I rarely post renders. Heck, I've been a member at RDNA for 7 years, I think, and I posted in their galleries for the first time last month. How are you going to know if I use your stuff?

ETA: I mean to say, Yes, vendors are able to create demand. And often do, probably without realizing it.

Based on the forums, I'd say DeviantArt is overwhelming youthful. Kids, in my experience (and again based on the forums there), are often horny, frequently scared of been thought of as homosexual (even when they are homosexual), and/or often excessively prudish when it comes to male nudity.

But come to think of it....

Actually, when I look at soccer uniforms and basketball outfits, and beach wear from the early 1980's, I notice it at once: women's clothing gets skimpier and men's gets longer. If it keeps on like this, the guys will all be wearing hijabs and the girls will be totally nude. So, yeah, it's not just Renderosity...

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

I'll just toss out a comment on the cost thing...

I'm spoiled and I admit it. When I can get serious 3D rendering software for free (Daz) or less than 1/2 the cost of Lightwave (PPro) then I find myself falling into the "why should I pay $50 for that model?" mindset. Worse, a LOT of what I end up using is worth easily twice what I paid for it (and yes, I would have paid that much for things I need for my Webcomic).

I'm not a modeler, I can't push polygons to sav emy life, so I have to rely on Talented Others(tm). And right now I can get incredible models for dirt cheap, so I take advantage. But every so often I see something I have to have, that's not in the sub-$30 range, and I go ahead and invest (while wincing). Yet even 5 years ago I'd have had to pay a modeler $$$$$ for something like a Stonemason set or a PowerAge armor!

I'm spoiled rotten. I suspect a lot of people are, it's an embarassment of riches in a buyers market.

Maybe if Poser/DS/etc. would gain more acceptance as a "legit artists tool" (and no, I'm not trying to start a flame war etc.) we'd see more semi-pro/pro iusers willing to pay for higher-end models, because they in turn will make a return on investment selling their artwork.

I'm not making a penny with what I'm doing. I don't expect to make a penny from it, ever. So I'm kind of lokced into the "hobbyoist level" of willingness to suffer financial pain with a Poser content purchase.

Ok, rant over.

Quote -

Glad I'm not a merchant so I can waste my time for whatever I want. :-)

But if I were, I'd do exactly what BlackHearted suggested.

Actually, I wouldn't even waste my time with full body custom sculpts, but rather do dial spins with a merchant resource texture.

You know, the ones with the little made up background storys and cutesy names that are a "must-have new and exiting addition to your runtime".

The average user can't tell anyway if you spent 12 hours sculpting in ZBrush or 12 minutes spinning some body morph dials.

I'm pretty sure next to "hair coloration add-ons", those have the best "time spent vs money earned" ratio.

;-)

This is interesting. I have your EXTRAordinary men in my shopping cart as I type. I noticed the difference, although I must say, they all seem to have rather large noses. There's a family joke about our noses.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Again, still doesn't explain why no one's made a free male (that I know of) or why there is comparatively so little free content for males, yet I have downloaded three free females in the last year, four if you count V4WM, and free content for females is essentially infinite.

I guess makers of freebie male content don't get enough adoration, praise, and promises to the blood of firstborn sons?

I don't think it's so much about adoration as it is : Use my stuff.

Like the, "if you make it, they will come" thing just does not seem to hold true and the content creators see that. As mentioned in one form or another before, we are in the grip of a nearly concrete cycle: Creators won't create things people don't seem to want but people can't want things if creators don't create them.

I rarely post renders. Heck, I've been a member at RDNA for 7 years, I think, and I posted in their galleries for the first time last month. How are you going to know if I use your stuff?

ETA: I mean to say, Yes, vendors are able to create demand. And often do, probably without realizing it.

Based on the forums, I'd say DeviantArt is overwhelming youthful. Kids, in my experience (and again based on the forums there), are often horny, frequently scared of been thought of as homosexual (even when they are homosexual), and/or often excessively prudish when it comes to male nudity.

But come to think of it....

Actually, when I look at soccer uniforms and basketball outfits, and beach wear from the early 1980's, I notice it at once: women's clothing gets skimpier and men's gets longer. If it keeps on like this, the guys will all be wearing hijabs and the girls will be totally nude. So, yeah, it's not just Renderosity...

Well, that is a valid argument but here at Renderostiy, at least, we have vendor tags for the gallery and alongside just people mentioning your name, those work with the search engine so if you wanted to know if someone used your product here, you just look yourself up in the gallery. There's also notices about the number of downloads for your stuff and we used to get messaged about who bought what you sold here (don't know if that still happens), so that you could provide support or include them in a email about an update.

Regardless though, is there room for more males? Yes. Should the current males get more support in the form of morphs and clothing? Yes. Do I see that happening? I know that there are more males on the way - I even have to start collecting my refs to make one - but I don't anticipate lots of support even for existing males anytime soon. Forthcoming males? Who knows? Maybe the next male to release will be the one everybody jumps on board for or maybe he won't . I just hope that when the next figure releases, people rally to him. If they don't he'll just fall to the wayside like every male before him, taking a back seat to the latest female release.

Well, females are more rounder, softer, easy on the eye.

It seems that males are build, because they "have to".

Same for content.
Female clothes are more in "style", and have lots of different styles.

Men clothes are more "practical".

A man, can do years with a shirt, some jeans and some boots.

So?, Even IRL, where is the money?
Who spends money on clothing?
The man or the woman?

Same here, nothing new under the sun.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

This is why I'm a bit cautious about showing too much enthusiasm for new figures, characters, clothing types etc. I'm all for encouraging vendors to bring out new stuff, but I don't want to raise anyone's expectations of a sale when I know it's something I'm never going to buy.

Just to use GNDA2 as a recent example... I post a link to every new item that comes out for her here in her content thread and I'm enthusistic about wips posted in her clothing thread - but at the same time I don't want to give the impression I'm going to buy everything that comes out for her. I'm not, I'd never use it.

Same goes for a couple of male new figures there have been threads about recently. If it's a figure I'd definitely buy then I'm happy to say so and I'll buy it, but if I think it's a great figure but I'm not going to buy it then it's tricky to make any comment without raising expectations of a sale.

Quote - Well, females are more rounder, softer, easy on the eye.

It seems that males are build, because they "have to".

Same for content.
Female clothes are more in "style", and have lots of different styles.

Men clothes are more "practical".

A man, can do years with a shirt, some jeans and some boots.

So?, Even IRL, where is the money?
Who spends money on clothing?
The man or the woman?

Same here, nothing new under the sun.

LOL. My husband's suits cost $800. Mine cost $80-140, and I got the last one on sale for less than $30. His shirts are $60; mine are $25.

I do spend more money on clothing -- HIS! He only shops for shoes, and that's only because he knows he has to try them on first. Well, the suits require an alteration. It's a five minute process to fit them.

I think this is going to vary wildly for each couple. But my friends all say the same thing: they shop with their wives for a trip and spend $200 each. The wife has 2 suitcases full of clothes, and they have a pair of pants, 2 shirts, and a pack of underwear.

I don't find soft, round things more pleasant to look at. I'm kind of with many of the ancient Greek sculptors on that. Young, fit men are far better. They have can have very well defined musculature without looking hideous.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

I didn't mean to stir up old controversies, months ago I'd read of new males being developed and yet all that seems to come out are new females. I was just curious about any pending developments. I'm still waiting for Sixus' HumanZ line--the male figure preview was very much something I'd like to have.

Guess I can complain only so far because what am I doing? I'm creating a Character/Texture pack for the store that's a V4. Why? Because it's likely to sell, even if I'm aiming the whole package at Poser Pro 2012 users. A problem tho, that I've meant to start a thread on, for both V4 and M4 (and I'd say for other character figures as well) is disappearing Merchant Resource Base textures to work with. I think that Rendo should change their policy in regards to Merchant Resource Base Textures. I currently own 3 Resource packages for V4 that are no longer available in the Rendo store. I only have 2 Resource packs for M4 and there are no psd layers of male body hair or pubic hair in the store as a Resource package. I'd save up and buy things like that. Even though a male Character package would not sell nearly as well as a V4 package, I do intend to make one. To me this is a big issue with ANY of the new figures coming out (Michelle, Tyler, whoever), those of us who would make Character/Texture packages need Texture bases to work with (because frankly some of us don't have the money to sink into reference photo packs). Would I do a set for Michelle if I own her? Maybe. If I had a base texture to work with. The new, coming Tyler? Yeah, if there was a base to use!!!!!!

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

Quote - those of us who would make Character/Texture packages need Texture bases to work with (because frankly some of us don't have the money to sink into reference photo packs).

a one month membership at 3D.SK costs $25 (used to be $9.99). in that one month you can download enough reference photos to last you a lifetime of texturing.

I have considered it. Alas, my skill at actually making a base texture isn't that good. Modifying the heck out of one, yeah. I believe that I could create a head and body texture because I have successfully merged a face from one map to another map and the same with a body. I am not so sure about hands and feet. Hey, at least I submitted my email to 3D.SK's mailing list.

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

Quote - This guy is exceptionally talented:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=20326

He renders mostly male figures with a high degree of artistic excellence, yet I don't ever see his work in the Art Charts. If you want to find quality renders, if you're looking for small-bosomed women (I render those, too!) or men, people ARE posting them here. You just need to wade through a lot of "A Mostly Naked V4 Against a Fractal Background" renders.

Yes, he is so talented, I love his work.

For male pin ups I really adore Vashek. He is an exceptional artist.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=51522

Delaney

Vaschek is great, his images are very professionally done and are fit to adorn the covers of those popular romance novels.

There is no doubt that there is a lot of life and versatility in the existing selections of male figures--I just get bored with my content and want new stuff all the time. Oh, how I wish that Anton had continued to develop Apollo, he was a figure I really liked that I felt hadn't reached his full potential.

Quote - There is no doubt that there is a lot of life and versatility in the existing selections of male figures--I just get bored with my content and want new stuff all the time. Oh, how I wish that Anton had continued to develop Apollo, he was a figure I really liked that I felt hadn't reached his full potential.

Rather than wait for new stuff, you'd probably do better learning how to create your own stuff for your existing characters. This includes making clothes and possibly sculpting your own morphs and modify existing clothing to fit. Looking at some of these responses, unless a creator has a love for creating male items and not overly motivated by paying bills, there's always going to be a lack of content for the male figures. Considering the track record of the women that have been released of late where content has been slow to get to market, I'm imagining the situation for the guys to be even more dire.

I can customize things to a certain extent, but I'm more about the artwork and don't want to be a content creator. Not all of us are talented enough to make 3D models. I can, and have, made some props with primativies if I'm in a bind. I'm sure I'm not alone in this, to me the arduous process of human figure creation is the difference between buying a car from a dealership or building one in my garage. Human figure creation can take months (or years), I'm not going there.

I tried creating a male figure using MakeHuman, an app which is more a of a human figure generator than a modelling app per se, and which is a plug-in for Blender. I ran into problems importing the mesh into Poser and rigging it. Based on my experience, I tend to agree with Tomsde's analogy of the difference between buying a car from a second hand dealer versus building one yourself.

Eternal Hobbyist

I wasn't talking about new figure creation. But in the absence of a steady amount of male content, learning how to customize male heads, bodies and other content for our own use is a skill you should learn. You may not want or be able to build a new car or the dealership closes down, but you should know how to change the oil, or replace the belts if the service is not readily available.

there's some kewl m4 content in SAV's free stuff. Volg's jacket, dynamic boxers

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/index.php?username=StudioArtVartanian

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Oh I can customize well enough--but still you can often tell which figure a spin off hailed from. Truth be told I am very concerned about the future of Poser, as if there isn't quality new content for it in the future it's not likely to survive in the long run. I know Smith Micro is working on a new premium male figure--but we've not even gotten a real glimpse of it yet.

I wish everyone would stop using the term 'slut' to describe brief/sexy clothing with the resulting implication - intentional or not - that a woman's character is defined by the clothes she wears - even if she's only a virtual woman. This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, merely a longstanding peeve that I have now gotten off my chest.

I don't know how closely Poser images track the ratio of male/female imagery in art as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised if female depictions are more prevalent in most art forms. That may be partly due to esthetics, maybe the female figure creates more interesting possibilities of light and shadow, whatever. Females may have more symbolic appeal, whether it be fertility, purity, motherhood and apple pie etc. Females are probably going to dominate in erotic imagery because the odds favor most male artists being (presumably) heterosexual, and women are (supposedly) more into literary rather than graphic erotica.

I think that Vilters has a point in that women's clothing offers greater variety in color and style. That may not be as true for modern 'everyday' wear, but you have to go back quite a ways to when mean were flamboyant peacocks, and even those wher pretty much the upper classes. For pinups etc. you can have an endless variety of mini-skirts, bustiers, teddies, panties etc. What are you going to put a man in besides a pair of briefs or a chest revealing Fabio shirt? I can sympathize with the desire for more male figures/content though I virtually never use them myself. Seriously (not really), now that women can be presidents, soldiers, construction workers - and of course dragon slayers - they should be sufficient for any image needs :-) Mark my words gentlemen, once they learn how to self-fertilize, they'll smother us all in our sleep - if the cats don't learn how to use can openers and train dogs to provide warm laps first - in which case, all of humankind will be doomed.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - I wish everyone would stop using the term 'slut' to describe brief/sexy clothing with the resulting implication - intentional or not - that a woman's character is defined by the clothes she wears - even if she's only a virtual woman. This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, merely a longstanding peeve that I have now gotten off my chest.

Although I doubt I use the term, I think this term isn't aimed at the woman, but those that feel that this is the only way a woman should look.... and that's a bigger issue. A realistic woman's business suit probably wouldn't sell, but one that's low cut, showing breast and has a miniskirt rather than a normal length one (that would get you sent home for the day) would sell like hotcakes.

Quote -
I think that Vilters has a point in that women's clothing offers greater variety in color and style. That may not be as true for modern 'everyday' wear, but you have to go back quite a ways to when mean were flamboyant peacocks, and even those wher pretty much the upper classes. For pinups etc. you can have an endless variety of mini-skirts, bustiers, teddies, panties etc. What are you going to put a man in besides a pair of briefs or a chest revealing Fabio shirt?

I appreciate your rant.

But I don't think you're being very imaginative when it comes to pinups. I guess it depends who the audience is. I'd expect women looking at men's pinups would find all the usual subjects, in various degrees of disrobe, to be quite enticing: firemen, police officers, doctors, atheletes in different sports uniforms, professors, astronauts, scientists, truck drivers, construction workers, delivery boys, chefs...

Think fireman calendar....

If someone were to make male pinup outfits that were targeting female tastes, as opposed to those of gay men, I think they'd be quite popular. To wit: StudioArtVartanian's Hot Men.

Anyway, I think there's a huge, huge variety of clothing style available for men. But the one single type of clothing for which there is the greatest variety of styles available in the marketplace is that of soldiers...

Hmm... this suggests that, for the most part, it really is men rendering men. And women and men rendering women.

Yeah, there aren't enough women interested in rendering men. The market is too small. But I won't agree that it's because male clothing is less varied.

I think it's more because women like to see themselves as the hero of their own narratives (and by extension, images), even if that narrative is often an erotic fantasy that appeals to male tastes.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Good point Moriador. I was thinking more of lingeree type pinups. Thinking of the classic pinups of the 50s, they featured a lot of situations, cowgirl, sailor girl, librarian etc. In that style, there are definitely many possibilities for male equivalents like the ones you mention. I admit to being pretty ignorant regarding female fantasies, though I suppose men in uniform is always popular.

I was thinking the other day about classic male fantasy figures, stewardess (alas, 'flight attendant' just doesn't have the same appeal), cheerleader, nurse, French maid... Today, likely as not, she is packing big guns (no pun intended) or a sword - interesting changes.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

It seems I'm not the typical female. I like the nude human form whether it's male or female. I was raised in a household where an interest in archaeology was encouraged (mmmm, Greek statues!). So I do female and male nudes. I also like fetishwear and there is nowhere enough of that type for the males. And I like pretty boys. However, I don't have whatever gene it is that is for 3D modeling. A friend taught me a few years ago how to model pots and bottles in Hex, and I've quite forgotten how to do that. So modeling clothing myself is out of my league. I can texture the models. I also know just enough about of UVMapper to be dangerous. I have to rely on those people who can model clothing and hope they'll find it worthwhile to model a few things for the males. And I'm hoping that the new Tyler figure will be a good one and will get some support, at least support from Crossdresser.

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

Quote - Good point Moriador. I was thinking more of lingeree type pinups. Thinking of the classic pinups of the 50s, they featured a lot of situations, cowgirl, sailor girl, librarian etc. In that style, there are definitely many possibilities for male equivalents like the ones you mention. I admit to being pretty ignorant regarding female fantasies, though I suppose men in uniform is always popular.

I was thinking the other day about classic male fantasy figures, stewardess (alas, 'flight attendant' just doesn't have the same appeal), cheerleader, nurse, French maid... Today, likely as not, she is packing big guns (no pun intended) or a sword - interesting changes.

If I recall anything from the Weiner sexts scandal, it was the number of discussions surrounding why it is that women generally tend not to respond positively to close up images of men's genitals. I think -- though this is obviously not going to be true of a considerable number -- women prefer not to see the same sort of graphic detail as men. So, yeah, the 1950's level of exposure, if not the artistic style, seems like it might appeal.

I think the girls with guns and swords and weapons etc might be a result of that "illustrating our own narrative" thing. But maybe men are liking the kickass type too. It is interesting to see and ponder wider social changes and possible correlations...

My renders go the whole gamut from fetish, to smutty, to graphically pornographic, to traditional fantasy illustration, to attempts at realism, to dinosaurs. The only things I don't do (I mean, don't render - I don't do them either, but that's into the realm of WTMI) are torture, excessively kinky stuff like copraphagia, and fairies/unicorns. Of the last three, I'm not sure which is most offensive.

ETA: I don't model either. I'm sure I'd be terrible at it. I have no basis for this belief other than that I've never tried, and I have less patience than I should have for complicated new software interfaces. I should give it a go anyway.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

I work with male figures here a lot (PG ratings - fully clothed thank you)... a total catalog of 21 male characters used constantly. And for the last year, they've all been based off of Genesis -- bought Gen4 converter the 2nd or 3rd day it was available and haven't looked back. Before that it was mostly Michael4, and rarely James. James was ONLY used in far off shots because he looks like crud and has NOTHING that fits him. M4 is a bit better, but not by much. I toyed with Apollo, but we all know where that went.

Genesis has changed the game. Suddenly the male figures are supported. And the support for males is climbing, not declining. A new business suit is due out soon from SickleYield/Marieah and it's ultra NICE. It works for both genders. If one has a tee-shirt for Vx and it is suitably gender neutral (collar/hem wise) then autofit it to a male Genesis and there you go. Need clothes for K4? Not a problem any more... even for K4 males. I've taken tee-shirts made for K4 and used them on Michael5, and they look GREAT! Add in the use of the Fabricator, and people are happy. I rarely hear complaints about clothing the male characters around here any more... and they no longer have to wear the same outfit scene after scene after scene.

The fact is that it is too much work for the return for the male figures with Gen4 or newPoser-WM. If a vendor makes an outfit for M5, then it can instantly be used on almost any character (including toons) -- David, Hiro, Vicky, Aiko, Steph, Hitomi, Jasmin. This increases the sales potential way beyond just one piddly male character, for little or no extra work.

Kendall

I know I'm not typical. I guess I am more 'masculine' in my taste of imagery. I hate soft core, and I hate the strategically placed towel or bedsheet across the lap. I like to see the male 'toast' and I like to see it in action. I know this is way not typical and so I don't post such to any gallery. But I did object strenously when at first it appeared that M4 was not going to have 'toast' at all included with the figure. If some anatomy is missing then there is something wrong. I've been like that since I was a child. Back then the HollyHobby doll was the big thing. It actually frightened me because she had no nose or mouth. Some well meaning friend of my mother's gave me one as a birthday present one time and my mother had to draw in a mouth and nose dots because I wouldn't go near the thing. So missing anatomy bothers me and makes me want to close my pocketbook. It also bugs me that so many of the V4 texture maps don't have pubic hair.

But back to the topic. I would love to see a new, good looking male Poser figure as an alternative to M4 (no M5 on this machine because at least on my laptop Poser and DS4 did not play well together at all). So I have hopes for this new Tyler figure.

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

ksears, Genesis isn't really a final solution for Poser. It's a lot of work to get clothes to fit (if they don't explode), and certain parts of the anatomy (the calf, for instance) appear too low poly for serious anatomical renders. Nice for the occasional render, particularly if you need monsters and half humans/anthros. But I would not organize my runtime around it.

Using DS isn't a solution, either, as its render engine cannot perform up to standards. Others have other reasons for not using it. We've heard them all before. As the thread is in the Poser forum, I think we can agree that those of us posting in this thread who want male content, want it for Poser.

Latexluv -- well, I agree: the "strategically placed towel" is mightily annoying. But in my case is the fact that it's so contrived that bugs me.

It did take me a very long time before I could bear to work on posing the nude Michael without his gens. It just looked so very wrong! So I'd always load them and then make them invisible when it came time to clothe him. I'm used to it now.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

I'm looking forward to seeing Tyler... especially, now, given the news of Blackhearted's involvement... on top of everything else.

I'd agree, "toast" is important, even if just for draping over.

Ideally an optional left or right "hang" bulge morph as well, could be useful... especially in terms of that being copied into conforming clothing.

Is a "symbolically draped bedsheet" any better than a "strategically placed towel"?

Or should it just all hang out?

Quote - Is a "symbolically draped bedsheet" any better than a "strategically placed towel"?

Or should it just all hang out?

I'm with Latexluv... the bedsheet is a contrivance.

Either the dude's got clothes on, or he doesn't. Why pretend he's partially clothed when he isn't?

However, partial clothing, even when it's contrived (how many firemen really wander around the firehouse in boots and boxer briefs?), is still quite sexy for lots of people. Calvin Klein seems to have figured this out. But it's probably a taste that not everyone shares.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

He he... yeah...I guess I'm all about these contrivances, a lot of the time.

I do like a "sense of mystery" though.

I'm maybe more a symbolist than a realist too... and perhaps going for comedic over erotic effect, more often, at that.

Although, I think something can be both funny and sensual... what do you think?

Also, something being sinister and a bit scary, but darkly humerous, simultaneously, is in that same boat, for me...

...or am I just a bit weird in this respect? :blushing:

Trouble with new male figures is that generally the clothes I need for them are fairly specific and without those clothes it's not worth me investing in a new figure. Most of my renders are historical, historical fantasy and sci-fi. Some of that I can cover for any figure with dynamic clothing, but the big problem for male figures is armour. There aren't many good historical armour sets out there anyway and what there is is for M3 and M4. It's not worth working on converting these sets to a different figure as no one's going to see much of the figure itself anyway. Same goes for sci-fi renders as most of them use heavy combat suits.

Most of the clothing for new male figures tends to be either everyday stuff or completely fantasy armours which I'm never going to use.

I'd like to get new male figures but it's probably not worth it just to do a couple of nude renders so I can be impressed by how great the figure looks and then never use it again :(

I am a definite "convert" to the power of Wardrobe Wizard.

With that in my arsenal, I really don't feel that conforming clothes are a limitation... relative to any new male figures (not at least, once PhilC gets on the case with them).

The restriction for me would be the choice of decent character (face / body) morphs and skin textures.

If that choice is limited, I find (at least right now, where I'm at early days relative to making the above aspects myself) that it really limits what I can do with a figure... or would want to do with it.

Conversions for armour don't work unfortunately and are pretty well unnecessary anyway if you can't see the figure underneath. I do occasionally manually fit armour between M3 and M4 - and then wonder why I bothered! :)

I've got nowhere with WW yet. I use XD all the time but with no XD support (eg. for GNDA2) and my poor results with WW any new figures that don't get XD support are going to be stuck with my dynamic draperies and manual conversions.

If there was a male version of Miki4 on the way I'd be seriously tempted as I don't have any figure that does a Japanese or Korean male well.

Quote - If there was a male version of Miki4 on the way I'd be seriously tempted as I don't have any figure that does a Japanese or Korean male well.

What do you reckon to Koji on that front? (weight mapped version is coming along in due course apparently)

Quote - Conversions for armour don't work unfortunately and are pretty well unnecessary anyway if you can't see the figure underneath. I do occasionally manually fit armour between M3 and M4 - and then wonder why I bothered! :)

Yeah I recently did some experimentation with converting the M3 Space Suit to fit a "fuller figured" V4 custom morph I have.

The spacesuit just didn't look right with boobs.

However, WW did a pretty fantastic job of putting those in there... considering its a fully automatic solution! :lol:

I guess armour is an even trickier case in point... and yeah, maybe PhilC himself would have some tips and tricks to pass on there and indeed its probably worth asking him(?)... but I would imagine myself, that the assembly of hard shells, that armour is constituted from, probably needs each part rescaled separately and then the whole thing reconstituted / re-rigged... in some way?

Quote - ksears, Genesis isn't really a final solution for Poser. It's a lot of work to get clothes to fit (if they don't explode), and certain parts of the anatomy (the calf, for instance) appear too low poly for serious anatomical renders. Nice for the occasional render, particularly if you need monsters and half humans/anthros. But I would not organize my runtime around it.

Using DS isn't a solution, either, as its render engine cannot perform up to standards. Others have other reasons for not using it. We've heard them all before. As the thread is in the Poser forum, I think we can agree that those of us posting in this thread who want male content, want it for Poser.

It's not a DS vs Poser issue. It's an "until SM has a Genesis" for Poser, males aren't going to get support issue. Until Genesis, males were suffering the same fate in DAZland. And while things aren't equal, they are getting much better over there.

Over here it is still WAY too much work for the vendor, and it's getting worse not better. Before too much longer the Poserverse is going to see even more splits as vendors decide which, if any, newPoser-WM characters they are going to provide morphs for -- even on the female side. Each of the different morphs and body shapes is a lot of work, and in many cases the morphs for the different figures won't work together. Then you have to take the different WM into account, which compounds the issue.

Kendall

It's not a DS vs Poser issue. It's an "until SM has a Genesis" for Poser, males aren't going to get support issue. Until Genesis, males were suffering the same fate in DAZland. And while things aren't equal, they are getting much better over there.

Kendall

Well, yes. I see your point. Clothing that can be worn by both sexes or easily converted will sell better, and vendors are more likely to make it.

Quote - ...or am I just a bit weird in this respect? :blushing:

Everyone is a bit weird in some respects. Life'd be very boring were it not the case. Sinister and sexy : Dracula, and every vampire ever after. Humorous and sexy: how else could Woody Allen hope to get laid? Humorous and sinister: The Coen Bros. It all works. :)

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - > Quote - If there was a male version of Miki4 on the way I'd be seriously tempted as I don't have any figure that does a Japanese or Korean male well.

What do you reckon to Koji on that front? (weight mapped version is coming along in due course apparently)

I don't have Koji. The renders I've seen haven't really appealed to me much. Although I haven't really seen that many renders.

Quote - > Quote - Conversions for armour don't work unfortunately and are pretty well unnecessary anyway if you can't see the figure underneath. I do occasionally manually fit armour between M3 and M4 - and then wonder why I bothered! :)

Yeah I recently did some experimentation with converting the M3 Space Suit to fit a "fuller figured" V4 custom morph I have.

The spacesuit just didn't look right with boobs.

However, WW did a pretty fantastic job of putting those in there... considering its a fully automatic solution! :lol:

I guess armour is an even trickier case in point... and yeah, maybe PhilC himself would have some tips and tricks to pass on there and indeed its probably worth asking him(?)... but I would imagine myself, that the assembly of hard shells, that armour is constituted from, probably needs each part rescaled separately and then the whole thing reconstituted / re-rigged... in some way?

Yeah, the problem with armour (with XD anyway, haven't tried with WW) is that the conversion process obviously wants to conform it to the figure. Armour (even though it is conforming in the Poser sense) isn't supposed to conform to a body like the conversion tries to do. Converting it manually works, but it takes some time and like I said, it's not really worth it if you're not going to see the figure inside. How well the figure inside bends etc. isn't really an issue inside a big metal or ceramic (?sci-fi) suit.

Quote - I don't have Koji. The renders I've seen haven't really appealed to me much. Although I haven't really seen that many renders.

Nope me neither... not seen many renders at all... not of non-Weight-mapped Koji.

However the ones of WM-Koji that Diogenes posted previously of the wip looked pretty good to me...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2847190&page=1

I'd say I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the revised Koji released... along with the new Tyler figure.

"But maybe men are liking the kickass type too."

I suspect that the majority of NVITWAS fans are male - same for Lara Croft, etc. Maybe it's like the notion of the powerful executive who enjoys being disciplined by a dominatrix. I think many men like powerful women, though perhaps more in fantasy than in reality. Goddess worship was pretty popular until the new wave of religions shunted women to a secondary (at best) role and cast them as the root of temptation, witchcraft etc.

"Back then the HollyHobby doll was the big thing. It actually frightened me because she had no nose or mouth."

OK, no Hello Kitty for you :-)

"It also bugs me that so many of the V4 texture maps don't have pubic hair."

It's easier to add it with a prop or trans map than it is to do a virtual Brazilian in an image editor. Also, if the texture is based on model photos, lineoleum seems to be more popular than carpet these days.

Strategically placed sheets? Better than a fireman's helmet or a catcher's mitt. I remember bygone adult films where the women were completely nude and the men kept their boxers on throughout. Now that was ridiculous. I don't watch many movies other than sci-fi and animation so I don't know how much the taboo on male nudity has eased up. Even if it has, I'm pretty sure Hollywood isn't going to show aroused males, so 'love' scenes are going to be without a certain sense of authenticity in any case.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Action Man, when I was a kid, always came with a good pair of what looked like armoured, blue plastic Y-fronts, welded onto his hips.

This was fine... but I remember being a bit disturbed by some earlier generation Action Men I then inherited from an older cousin. They were without the armoured pants and just had skin tone blanks where their "toast" should have been.

did WM Michael 4 bite the dust?

still hoping.

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Quote - did WM Michael 4 bite the dust?

still hoping.

I'm with you on this!

People have been asking this all over there is never any responce. Would be nice if he wasn't forgotten butit's starting to look like he might have been.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

V4's original bending was optimized by magnets. M4 used JCMs. It's possible that changing the falloff with weight maps will screw up JCMs. V4 didn't have this issue as far as I know.

I have no inside knowledge about the project. This is just my theory.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

I'm putting the finishing touches to my free new poser male figure, I am making some clothes for him too.

It has traditional rigging and arounf 36000 polys

You can see my latest render in my gallery, here at rendo.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2377449

adh3d website

Cool.

The more the merrier. All I ask is that you get PhilC onboard with a WW plug-in.

Would be great to get PhilC onboard with a WW plug-in.

adh3d website

it's not just the wm. wmv4 has the helper bones.

helper bones technology - head scr'ch

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I don't know...his "men" all look like a cave man or alien.

Quote - > Quote - This guy is exceptionally talented:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=20326

He renders mostly male figures with a high degree of artistic excellence, yet I don't ever see his work in the Art Charts. If you want to find quality renders, if you're looking for small-bosomed women (I render those, too!) or men, people ARE posting them here. You just need to wade through a lot of "A Mostly Naked V4 Against a Fractal Background" renders.

Agreed. Love his stuff. He does show up in the art charts frequently. (I check them every once in a while just to remind myself why I don't have a gallery here.) My all time fave does lots of skulls and monsters as well as men and women. Not saying no one is rendering them, but the default image does seem to be exactly as you describe. The point was made that the same person can post comparable images of a man and of a woman, and the woman will get views and the man won't.

"I don't know...his "men" all look like a cave man or alien."

His sports and western action scenes are superb, very realistic posing and kinetic sense. The static scenes are wonderfully detailed and executed, but the steroid bulked looking character at rest kind of overpowers everything else, more like a comic caricature.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

no cavemens. i like sensitive guys. ;) with the brawn to open a jar for me when the lid is too tight.

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"no cavemens. i like sensitive guys. ;) with the brawn to open a jar for me when the lid is too tight."

Rap the bottom of the jar sharply with the heel of your hand - works about nine times out of ten.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - "no cavemens. i like sensitive guys. ;) with the brawn to open a jar for me when the lid is too tight."

Rap the bottom of the jar sharply with the heel of your hand - works about nine times out of ten.

You mean, it works about 9 times out of 10 for men, right? (I've been assuming you're a boy -- but maybe you're not).

You can also tap the top of the jar with a knife handle, all the way around it. Works fairly often.

But the best odds are still: get a man to do it.

Of course there are other life choices. Back when I used to lift weights (doing pullups really increases grip strength too), I never had to ask for help opening things. It was nice being able to carry a couple of 19L water cooler bottles at once. Saved a huge amount of time, not having to wait around for help. :)

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - I'm putting the finishing touches to my free new poser male figure, I am making some clothes for him too.

It has traditional rigging and arounf 36000 polys

You can see my latest render in my gallery, here at rendo.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2377449

Any chance you might redo some of your Roman stuff for him? Your Roman armour models are the best ones I've found, but Apollo's a bit of a pain and the armour's a bit tricky to fit well to M3 and M4. Actually some of your Roman stuff for M4 or GNDTyler would be great..... :)

eta: and the Templar and the Viking.... ;)

Quote - You mean, it works about 9 times out of 10 for men, right? (I've been assuming you're a boy -- but maybe you're not).

You can also tap the top of the jar with a knife handle, all the way around it. Works fairly often.

But the best odds are still: get a man to do it.

Of course there are other life choices. Back when I used to lift weights (doing pullups really increases grip strength too), I never had to ask for help opening things. It was nice being able to carry a couple of 19L water cooler bottles at once. Saved a huge amount of time, not having to wait around for help. :)

Nice to know women still need us for something.

Quote - > Quote - "no cavemens. i like sensitive guys. ;) with the brawn to open a jar for me when the lid is too tight."

Rap the bottom of the jar sharply with the heel of your hand - works about nine times out of ten.

You mean, it works about 9 times out of 10 for men, right? (I've been assuming you're a boy -- but maybe you're not).

You can also tap the top of the jar with a knife handle, all the way around it. Works fairly often.

But the best odds are still: get a man to do it.

Of course there are other life choices. Back when I used to lift weights (doing pullups really increases grip strength too), I never had to ask for help opening things. It was nice being able to carry a couple of 19L water cooler bottles at once. Saved a huge amount of time, not having to wait around for help. :)

i can not open a 32oz gatorade by myself. my middle name = 'wus'
it's usually the 32oz one that's on sale, consternation.

with a jar of salsa, if i stab the lid through with a sharp knife, a lil hiss from the jar and then it opens nicely.

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"You mean, it works about 9 times out of 10 for men, right? (I've been assuming you're a boy -- but maybe you're not)."

Guilty as charged :-)

I remember once, I was sitting with a group of folks and a very attractive, and fit young lady was having trouble getting a jar open - she handed it to me. I suppose I must have been right next to her because I was easily the scrawniest male available. I did the rap trick, popped the lid and handed it back to her as nonchalantly as possible, to hushed murmurs of approval from the audience – one of life’s little golden moments.

I could probably carry two 5 gallon jugs, if they had straps on them, for a ways, if I were being chased be rabid dogs or in the past, trying to impress some female. Now? I recall some of the sailors I worked with talking about a female mechanic who could lift a P3 (anti-submarine aircraft) generator into place, apparently an awe inspiring feat. I’ve learned enough that I’d let her carry the jugs and find some other way to impress her.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote -
You mean, it works about 9 times out of 10 for men, right? (I've been assuming you're a boy -- but maybe you're not).

You can also tap the top of the jar with a knife handle, all the way around it. Works fairly often.

But the best odds are still: get a man to do it.

Yeah, give it to me, I'll get that lid off...

...either by running it under the hot tap for a bit or maybe putting the hair dryer on it.

Course you have to make sure to just heat the lid... and not start cooking the jar contents

I'm kidding, I'd just use brute strength. Maybe a tea towel.

I was impressed by the young man who delivered our water. We lived on the fourth floor and our elevator was out of service for one delivery. He arrived upstairs shockingly quickly after buzzing at the front door, four bottles (one under each arm, one gripped in each hand around the bottle neck) ready to go. When I asked how he managed it, he said, "It's all in the legs."

In any case, male strength is really something. As a girl, you don't realize it because you get used to wrestling with boyfriends who are usually trying pretty hard not to hurt you. A real physical confrontation with an adult man who is holding nothing back is very eye opening. Even the scrawniest looking guy is quite remarkably strong -- especially when the adrenaline is pumping.

As for opening jars, I forgot about those magical tea towels. :)

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

The strength of anyone who is uninhibited in wielding their strength can be surprising... indeed shocking.

Small babies and kids can be impressively strong.

That said, control is the key... there's nothing more formidable than someone who can successfully channel the full extent of their uninhibited natural strength.

I am always amused / fascinated by the mechanical correlation of strength versus scale.

I've encountered jar lids that presented a greater challenge to me than manually removing the wheels of my van, after the nuts had been over tightened with an air wrench, once did.

There are almost always these clever little tricks that augment the brute strength. In the case of the wheel nuts, it was the addition of about a can of WD40.

Quote - I've encountered jar lids that presented a greater challenge to me than manually removing the wheels of my van, after the nuts had been over tightened with an air wrench, once did.

There are almost always these clever little tricks that augment the brute strength. In the case of the wheel nuts, it was the addition of about a can of WD40.

Were you trying to remove the wheel nuts with your fingers? Or were you using levers to assist? Jars are always simple to open if you have an appropriately sized wrench/pair of pliers. :)

Of course, that's another way men have an advantage. Longer limbs, better leverage.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

"In the case of the wheel nuts, it was the addition of about a can of WD40."

Glad to hear they sell that fine American product in the old country. The judicious use of a long section of pipe placed over the end of the lug wrench (a 'cheater') as we call them, works wonders.

"Of course, that's another way men have an advantage. Longer limbs, better leverage."

I've always heard that differences in the shoulder anatomy make it difficult for girls to throw overhand. That may be part of why male chimp's are stronger than men - maybe male human vs. female chimp might be a more fair fight though I wouldn't want to be the test subject. At the least, I'd hope she was really a Bonobo, bent on killing me with kindness rather than ripping off my head.

*"Small babies and kids can be impressively strong." *

Heh,* *a determined cat can be aggravatingly strong with its claws dug in.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - An old topic, much discussed around here. I post a render of a male character and get a smattering of views. I post a render of a female character, and I get more views in a single day than the male character gets in a week!

Male figure:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2352889&user_id=229244&np&np

Female figure:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2354348&user_id=229244&np&np

That's just the way things are around here!

Yup, forget sceneries, cityscapes, etc. Post a pinup that shows a bit of T&A, and you got tons of responses, LOL.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

I've been slowing getting Genesis stuff for PoserPro2012. I noticed a sale at Daz-and was grumbling that ALOT of the content is M5 stuff. Guys? Who even WANTS guy characters! :-) Then I remembered this thread...and that I am PART of the Problem. No room for Guys in "Nekkid Vicky in a Temple With a Sword " renders. Not that I have many-but I digress..

The only time I use M4 is when I want a specific character-frequently movie or TV actors. So nothing of interest for me-but there are lots of male characters, hair, etc under the Poser+ Genesis category. Genesis IS working fairly well for me on Mac OSX 10.6.9. I have heard there MAY be more issues with PC's-but could be wrong.

Some Artist like MutedBanshee store has some females ,some males ,some other stuff.
StonneMason Well his name says it all.not the best place to look for string bikinis.
AlfaSeed store all girls.

What's MutedBanshee ,StonneMason ,AlfaSeed All very susesful Venders ,
All have in Common ?
It's not girls.Maybe it's there Original & have Quality Meshes.

There's venders that have quality Meshes for Males you just half to find them.

============================================================

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Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

in desperation, v4 has a male morph. with m4 uvs. mc to add the male morph to her templewear. adding m4's gens on her male morph never looks quite right.

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Quote -

There's venders that have quality Meshes for Males you just half to find them.

Most notably, in my mind, Xurge -- who currently has a 50% off sale for Halloween.

If only someone would do with modern clothing what he has done with fantasy and sci-fi...

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Luckily I think I already own everything Xurge that I want!

Although I could just mosey over there and have a little look in case there's anything I've ever missed.....

Quote - > Quote - I'm putting the finishing touches to my free new poser male figure, I am making some clothes for him too.

It has traditional rigging and arounf 36000 polys

You can see my latest render in my gallery, here at rendo.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2377449

Any chance you might redo some of your Roman stuff for him? Your Roman armour models are the best ones I've found, but Apollo's a bit of a pain and the armour's a bit tricky to fit well to M3 and M4. Actually some of your Roman stuff for M4 or GNDTyler would be great..... :)

eta: and the Templar and the Viking.... ;)

Yes, I have in mind many clothes for him, icluding roman period clothes.

adh3d website

His foot has more detail than the usual models that are non-daz non SM. I think acadia will be happy with that.

His face is probably not finished yet and is probably changeable but his face looks really dorky right now.

His body looks great (except for the calves)

All in all, good work.

Love esther

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I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I'm putting the finishing touches to my free new poser male figure, I am making some clothes for him too.

It has traditional rigging and arounf 36000 polys

You can see my latest render in my gallery, here at rendo.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2377449

Any chance you might redo some of your Roman stuff for him? Your Roman armour models are the best ones I've found, but Apollo's a bit of a pain and the armour's a bit tricky to fit well to M3 and M4. Actually some of your Roman stuff for M4 or GNDTyler would be great..... :)

eta: and the Templar and the Viking.... ;)

Yes, I have in mind many clothes for him, icluding roman period clothes.

That's great news! Look forward to seeing these!

book mark. (REALLY enjoying this thread, coming in late) and want to contribute some later when I am done reading. :)

Lyne
Lyne's Creations

oh and FYI for ME- making my animals and birds SOOO long ago, was for the pure LOVE of what I was doing...that it ended up being a pretty good business for a few years was an added bonus. But with who I am at heart, now I am giving away "my babies" for FREE, for THE LOVE OF DOING THAT now... :)

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

I got quite a few giggles and chuckles from reading this thread, besides just finding it an interesting group discussion. :) I just felt like adding my two cents worth... I am female, and I have always enjoyed the female nude in art more than the male... that said, a really nice male body, with some muscling, (BUT NOT a comic book body, nor a Hulk body builder) is VERY attractive to me... I also love Arabian horses more than other breeds because of THEIR flowing lines - it's all artistic beauty to me... Women, generally are just plain prettier!

I NEVER found M3 of much use (tho I bought a lot of clothes for him, because I am an admitted Poser addict), but I really STILL like David 3 - because there was so much support (in my opinion) for him, in clothes, and hair mainly from RDNA and in the nice face morphs by Jepe.

I am about to get radical with my 90 gig poser and scoop out ALL my M3 stuff... as well as poor V3. (I'll let Aiko 3 clothes stay a while until I cross-dress them for the kids or Mavka) BUT... since the kinda sad M4 came along, I have been clothing him up fairly well...

and NOW may actually use him because 1. a merchant here did the bowling ball shoulder fix for him AND 2. I just discovered Mutedbanshie's TO DIE FOR character(s) of ELVES! Movie star gorgeous, made me drool and that was NOT for their body, but faces! LOL!... I got the required morph sets on sale, thankfully in DAZ's recent sale! (and I am literally threatening myself that I BETTER use him now!!)

oh and yes, I had been gone from the Poser world for about 3 years due to changes in my personal life..and my Second Life - life. So now I am back and finding these treasures! If the guys that did PERFECT V4 MORPHS go to work on M4, then I am going to be REALLY happy!

I do NOT NOT NOT like any of the Genesis stuff (still on Poser 7, gotta save $$ somewhere!)- Might go to Poser 9 for what Blackhearted did with Anstasia (spell) and also Tiny's long hair mil cats!!! Those Genesis figures, and characters for them just look boring to me....sort of lumpy and odd...

I don't even know who Tony is, but the pictures don't impress me, sorry. (I have GND4 but I prefer the look of GNDA2). I also may keep my GND...what - 1 ? The first one that really truly looks like Laura Croft.. SHE turned ME on! and I did use her! - hey! not like THAT, I did art renders! LOL!

I did buy the neat merchant set here for romantic couple poses with a couch...so I may get brave and use my M4 and V4 with that... will it get more views? I have no idea... they say "sex sells" just as much as the female body... so maybe. I have done um... one.. no two nudes...and they were very very tasteful (no jokes please! ;) because there was a REASON for the nudity... it was making a very specific emotional point. But I would rather do a pretty pinup with lacy things on, than totally nude.. to ME that is just more lovely - I honestly feel the "silent majority" of women LIKE something left to the imagination the same as they prefer SOFT porn.

But back to the ORIGINAL reason for this thread... WHERE ARE THE MEN and the clothes for them... there really are a LOT of clothes if you look in ALL the on line stores...and there are some really amazing characters sets of ALL ages for M4!

I think they are selling... but I bet most people are like me... I DO say "I have all this content, but why don't I USE it?!?!" I am trying to carve out more time to just enjoy Poser... in fact considering buying a Boris art calendar because his style of women inspires me... why NOT do a gently muscled woman of strength? They are gorgeous! Besides I want to BE ONE...and most assuredly am not. :)

oh and maybe I should also have a disclaimer... any woman such as myself who grew up where a "father figure" was a PROBLEM probably also much prefers looking at, and rendering with female figures... THAT is a reason no one has brought up here... (unless I missed it, trying to read this entire post in one evening.)

oh and I do, as a creator and merchant at one time FEEL for the HARD HARD HARD work it takes to create ANY human or animal model for Poser, so some of the reason I put my money where my mouth is, is to support those folks! But yes... now I am a coupon addict too... so am part of THAT problem... when I sold my critters my store's motto was "sell more for less" and we never had sales because we sold at rock bottom prices to start with.

okay.. done now! :)

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

He he.

Good to see this thread still alive!

I'm still watching out for further news from AmbientShade on his Lucas figure, personally ;-)

How's it going there Shane?

Quote - I got quite a few giggles and chuckles from reading this thread, besides just finding it an interesting group discussion. :) I just felt like adding my two cents worth... I am female, and I have always enjoyed the female nude in art more than the male... that said, a really nice male body, with some muscling, (BUT NOT a comic book body, nor a Hulk body builder) is VERY attractive to me... I also love Arabian horses more than other breeds because of THEIR flowing lines - it's all artistic beauty to me... Women, generally are just plain prettier!

I NEVER found M3 of much use (tho I bought a lot of clothes for him, because I am an admitted Poser addict), but I really STILL like David 3 - because there was so much support (in my opinion) for him, in clothes, and hair mainly from RDNA and in the nice face morphs by Jepe.

I am about to get radical with my 90 gig poser and scoop out ALL my M3 stuff... as well as poor V3. (I'll let Aiko 3 clothes stay a while until I cross-dress them for the kids or Mavka) BUT... since the kinda sad M4 came along, I have been clothing him up fairly well...

and NOW may actually use him because 1. a merchant here did the bowling ball shoulder fix for him AND 2. I just discovered Mutedbanshie's TO DIE FOR character(s) of ELVES! Movie star gorgeous, made me drool and that was NOT for their body, but faces! LOL!... I got the required morph sets on sale, thankfully in DAZ's recent sale! (and I am literally threatening myself that I BETTER use him now!!)

oh and yes, I had been gone from the Poser world for about 3 years due to changes in my personal life..and my Second Life - life. So now I am back and finding these treasures! If the guys that did PERFECT V4 MORPHS go to work on M4, then I am going to be REALLY happy!

I do NOT NOT NOT like any of the Genesis stuff (still on Poser 7, gotta save $$ somewhere!)- Might go to Poser 9 for what Blackhearted did with Anstasia (spell) and also Tiny's long hair mil cats!!! Those Genesis figures, and characters for them just look boring to me....sort of lumpy and odd...

I don't even know who Tony is, but the pictures don't impress me, sorry. (I have GND4 but I prefer the look of GNDA2). I also may keep my GND...what - 1 ? The first one that really truly looks like Laura Croft.. SHE turned ME on! and I did use her! - hey! not like THAT, I did art renders! LOL!

I did buy the neat merchant set here for romantic couple poses with a couch...so I may get brave and use my M4 and V4 with that... will it get more views? I have no idea... they say "sex sells" just as much as the female body... so maybe. I have done um... one.. no two nudes...and they were very very tasteful (no jokes please! ;) because there was a REASON for the nudity... it was making a very specific emotional point. But I would rather do a pretty pinup with lacy things on, than totally nude.. to ME that is just more lovely - I honestly feel the "silent majority" of women LIKE something left to the imagination the same as they prefer SOFT porn.

But back to the ORIGINAL reason for this thread... WHERE ARE THE MEN and the clothes for them... there really are a LOT of clothes if you look in ALL the on line stores...and there are some really amazing characters sets of ALL ages for M4!

I think they are selling... but I bet most people are like me... I DO say "I have all this content, but why don't I USE it?!?!" I am trying to carve out more time to just enjoy Poser... in fact considering buying a Boris art calendar because his style of women inspires me... why NOT do a gently muscled woman of strength? They are gorgeous! Besides I want to BE ONE...and most assuredly am not. :)

oh and maybe I should also have a disclaimer... any woman such as myself who grew up where a "father figure" was a PROBLEM probably also much prefers looking at, and rendering with female figures... THAT is a reason no one has brought up here... (unless I missed it, trying to read this entire post in one evening.)

oh and I do, as a creator and merchant at one time FEEL for the HARD HARD HARD work it takes to create ANY human or animal model for Poser, so some of the reason I put my money where my mouth is, is to support those folks! But yes... now I am a coupon addict too... so am part of THAT problem... when I sold my critters my store's motto was "sell more for less" and we never had sales because we sold at rock bottom prices to start with.

okay.. done now! :)

M5 can where M3 cloths

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

”oh and maybe I should also have a disclaimer... any woman such as myself who grew up where a "father figure" was a PROBLEM probably also much prefers looking at, and rendering with female figures...”

Interesting observation. I know that I dislike certain situations in art/entertainment, probably due to my background. There are also things that I can enjoy if portrayed as fantasy that I don’t like in a more realistic setting. I suspect that many/most people are the same, whether conscious of it or not. I’ve always felt that the popularity of characters like Lara Croft and sword wielding Vickies reflects many men’s yen for powerful women as a fantasy that they might not care for that much in real life. Whether people like dragons, realistic humans, faeries etc., there’s probably more going on than pure esthetics. It may be too simplistic to suggest that the relative unpopularity of male Poser figures reveals (at least partly) certain anxieties on the part of men at least, but who knows. I remember reading something years ago about how ‘what’s on your t shirt’ revealing aspects of your personality – similar for your favorite fairy tale. What’s in your runtime may be an interesting indicator as well ÷) In a similar vein, I don't know if any professionals are using Poser for art therapy, but it might be quite effective.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - > Quote - I got quite a few giggles and chuckles from reading this thread, besides just finding it an interesting group discussion. :) I just felt like adding my two cents worth... I am female, and I have always enjoyed the female nude in art more than the male... that said, a really nice male body, with some muscling, (BUT NOT a comic book body, nor a Hulk body builder) is VERY attractive to me... I also love Arabian horses more than other breeds because of THEIR flowing lines - it's all artistic beauty to me... Women, generally are just plain prettier!

I NEVER found M3 of much use (tho I bought a lot of clothes for him, because I am an admitted Poser addict), but I really STILL like David 3 - because there was so much support (in my opinion) for him, in clothes, and hair mainly from RDNA and in the nice face morphs by Jepe.

I am about to get radical with my 90 gig poser and scoop out ALL my M3 stuff... as well as poor V3. (I'll let Aiko 3 clothes stay a while until I cross-dress them for the kids or Mavka) BUT... since the kinda sad M4 came along, I have been clothing him up fairly well...

and NOW may actually use him because 1. a merchant here did the bowling ball shoulder fix for him AND 2. I just discovered Mutedbanshie's TO DIE FOR character(s) of ELVES! Movie star gorgeous, made me drool and that was NOT for their body, but faces! LOL!... I got the required morph sets on sale, thankfully in DAZ's recent sale! (and I am literally threatening myself that I BETTER use him now!!)

oh and yes, I had been gone from the Poser world for about 3 years due to changes in my personal life..and my Second Life - life. So now I am back and finding these treasures! If the guys that did PERFECT V4 MORPHS go to work on M4, then I am going to be REALLY happy!

I do NOT NOT NOT like any of the Genesis stuff (still on Poser 7, gotta save $$ somewhere!)- Might go to Poser 9 for what Blackhearted did with Anstasia (spell) and also Tiny's long hair mil cats!!! Those Genesis figures, and characters for them just look boring to me....sort of lumpy and odd...

I don't even know who Tony is, but the pictures don't impress me, sorry. (I have GND4 but I prefer the look of GNDA2). I also may keep my GND...what - 1 ? The first one that really truly looks like Laura Croft.. SHE turned ME on! and I did use her! - hey! not like THAT, I did art renders! LOL!

I did buy the neat merchant set here for romantic couple poses with a couch...so I may get brave and use my M4 and V4 with that... will it get more views? I have no idea... they say "sex sells" just as much as the female body... so maybe. I have done um... one.. no two nudes...and they were very very tasteful (no jokes please! ;) because there was a REASON for the nudity... it was making a very specific emotional point. But I would rather do a pretty pinup with lacy things on, than totally nude.. to ME that is just more lovely - I honestly feel the "silent majority" of women LIKE something left to the imagination the same as they prefer SOFT porn.

But back to the ORIGINAL reason for this thread... WHERE ARE THE MEN and the clothes for them... there really are a LOT of clothes if you look in ALL the on line stores...and there are some really amazing characters sets of ALL ages for M4!

I think they are selling... but I bet most people are like me... I DO say "I have all this content, but why don't I USE it?!?!" I am trying to carve out more time to just enjoy Poser... in fact considering buying a Boris art calendar because his style of women inspires me... why NOT do a gently muscled woman of strength? They are gorgeous! Besides I want to BE ONE...and most assuredly am not. :)

oh and maybe I should also have a disclaimer... any woman such as myself who grew up where a "father figure" was a PROBLEM probably also much prefers looking at, and rendering with female figures... THAT is a reason no one has brought up here... (unless I missed it, trying to read this entire post in one evening.)

oh and I do, as a creator and merchant at one time FEEL for the HARD HARD HARD work it takes to create ANY human or animal model for Poser, so some of the reason I put my money where my mouth is, is to support those folks! But yes... now I am a coupon addict too... so am part of THAT problem... when I sold my critters my store's motto was "sell more for less" and we never had sales because we sold at rock bottom prices to start with.

okay.. done now! :)

M5 can where M3 cloths

... and Genesis can become M3 and most of Gen3.

Also, I'm sorry but the person doesn't get to not like Genesis simply because they can't run it. That's simply a invalid argument; use it first, then you get to have an opinion on it. I think M5 is such a massive improvement over M4, that it's simply such a hassle to do M4 morphs in comparison. M3's biggest issue that it was difficult for M3 to look any different than the default M3... David3 was much more customizable. M5 is somewhat like a cross between M4 and D3.

Sorry Male_M3dia but Genesis/V5/M5 are for DS, not for Poser.

DSON works for some, but unfortunately is a nightmare for most.
==> See the word unfortunately ! ! ! !

Honest : I would ave loved to see it all working without pollution.

Conclusion:
Genesis / M5 / V5 / DSON was, is, and will stay the best promotion / advertising / maketing that could ever have hapened to M4/V4 for Poser users.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - Sorry Male_M3dia but Genesis/V5/M5 are for DS, not for Poser.

DSON works for some, but unfortunately is a nightmare for most.
==> See the word unfortunately ! ! ! !

Honest : I would ave loved to see it all working without pollution.

Conclusion:
Genesis / M5 / V5 / DSON was, is, and will stay the best promotion / advertising / maketing that could ever have hapened to M4/V4 for Poser users.

Sorry, all this is incorrect. People that it IS working for don't post, so 10 people out of how many isn't a correct assessment. Please do your research before your post things like this.

Quote - > Quote - Sorry Male_M3dia but Genesis/V5/M5 are for DS, not for Poser.

DSON works for some, but unfortunately is a nightmare for most.
==> See the word unfortunately ! ! ! !

Honest : I would ave loved to see it all working without pollution.

Conclusion:
Genesis / M5 / V5 / DSON was, is, and will stay the best promotion / advertising / maketing that could ever have hapened to M4/V4 for Poser users.

Sorry, all this is incorrect. People that it IS working for don't post, so 10 people out of how many isn't a correct assessment. Please do your research before your post things like this.

If they're not posting as you say, then how do you KNOW it's not a correct assessment?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Sorry Male_M3dia but Genesis/V5/M5 are for DS, not for Poser.

DSON works for some, but unfortunately is a nightmare for most.
==> See the word unfortunately ! ! ! !

Honest : I would ave loved to see it all working without pollution.

Conclusion:
Genesis / M5 / V5 / DSON was, is, and will stay the best promotion / advertising / maketing that could ever have hapened to M4/V4 for Poser users.

Sorry, all this is incorrect. People that it IS working for don't post, so 10 people out of how many isn't a correct assessment. Please do your research before your post things like this.

If they're not posting as you say, then how do you KNOW it's not a correct assessment?

My increased sales says so. :)

Good for you.
Now let everybody use his/her figure they choose to use.

This was about; "Where are the men". Not about Miss/Mister Gray. :-)

That reminds me; I have to create a boyfriend for my new born. :-)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - Good for you.
Now let everybody use his/her figure they choose to use.

This was about; "Where are the men". Not about Miss/Mister Gray. :-)

That reminds me; I have to create a boyfriend for my new born. :-)

Sorry, M5 is a male figure that works in Poser, so he gets to be included now too. Sorry if that bothers you. And it gives me a reason to play around in Poser as well. ;)

HEY! You did not really read what I wrote about Genasis... "just because I can't run it" ??? Give me a break, I said I do not like the LUMPY ODD LOOK of Gen figures in general... I am allowed my own reaction, my own taste.. to tell me that "I don't get to" feel that way or have that opinion is just the reason I had to get away from an abusive husband... I AM ALLOWED to feel and have an opinion of my own, period.

Sorry but that riled me up.

I do not care for the figures, I do not care to FINANCE another line on top of what I already have... simple as that. okay?

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

Quote - ”oh and maybe I should also have a disclaimer... any woman such as myself who grew up where a "father figure" was a PROBLEM probably also much prefers looking at, and rendering with female figures...”

Interesting observation. I know that I dislike certain situations in art/entertainment, probably due to my background. There are also things that I can enjoy if portrayed as fantasy that I don’t like in a more realistic setting. I suspect that many/most people are the same, whether conscious of it or not. I’ve always felt that the popularity of characters like Lara Croft and sword wielding Vickies reflects many men’s yen for powerful women as a fantasy that they might not care for that much in real life. Whether people like dragons, realistic humans, faeries etc., there’s probably more going on than pure esthetics. It may be too simplistic to suggest that the relative unpopularity of male Poser figures reveals (at least partly) certain anxieties on the part of men at least, but who knows. I remember reading something years ago about how ‘what’s on your t shirt’ revealing aspects of your personality – similar for your favorite fairy tale. What’s in your runtime may be an interesting indicator as well ÷) In a similar vein, I don't know if any professionals are using Poser for art therapy, but it might be quite effective.

Even astrology will say your environment effects a person.

Think music says a lot about a person also.

I don't bother with reality or the past.

Unless some one wrongs me ,I'll never forget so they can't wrong me twice.
God forgives I don't.

Herd a comedian say friends are gods way of apologizing for parents.

If some of your parents ,siblings ,your family was a pain.
Some where probably kool.At least you have some family.

Ask a orphan about there childhood.
Then watch them laugh as you threaten them with a place called hell.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

No Poser mesh is beyond improvement, but M5 is so far the most out-of-the-box-realistic male figure I've ever seen.

A professionally made displacement map would be welcome to add more detail to some more extreme morphs, but I definitely wouldn't call M5 "lumpy".

Especially not when compared to those other male meshes that were "made especially for Poser".

Use what you want. Like what you want.

But the future of Poser is Genesis.

:-)

Another one.

Now he's lumpy. ;-)

Recently I have released free OBJ files to help artists to create new figures for Poser:

Download page: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=69646

Download page: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=69645

STORE: https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/vendors/3Dream

FREEBIES: https://www.renderosity.com/users/3Dream/freestuff

I agree with JoePublic. The future for Poser is Genesis, whether people want to admit it or not. Reality check, any new figure that is not made by Daz will die off within weeks regardless how great they are. Why? There is no other company/group that can sustain or market a figure like they do. Simple as that. This Dson importer will improve and soon Genesis will work without any issues. But use what you want, I just prefer using a figure that is a cut above the rest that has the most support and flexibility. If Daz was forcing a piece of sh!t model into Poser then I would be against everything they are trying to do, but that is not the case. Genesis is all the men you need all in one.

My Renderosity Store

Quote - ”oh and maybe I should also have a disclaimer... any woman such as myself who grew up where a "father figure" was a PROBLEM probably also much prefers looking at, and rendering with female figures...”

Interesting observation. I know that I dislike certain situations in art/entertainment, probably due to my background. There are also things that I can enjoy if portrayed as fantasy that I don’t like in a more realistic setting. I suspect that many/most people are the same, whether conscious of it or not. I’ve always felt that the popularity of characters like Lara Croft and sword wielding Vickies reflects many men’s yen for powerful women as a fantasy that they might not care for that much in real life. Whether people like dragons, realistic humans, faeries etc., there’s probably more going on than pure esthetics. It may be too simplistic to suggest that the relative unpopularity of male Poser figures reveals (at least partly) certain anxieties on the part of men at least, but who knows. I remember reading something years ago about how ‘what’s on your t shirt’ revealing aspects of your personality – similar for your favorite fairy tale. What’s in your runtime may be an interesting indicator as well ÷) In a similar vein, I don't know if any professionals are using Poser for art therapy, but it might be quite effective.

Generalizations based on personal experience frequently don't apply to that many people. It's certainly not true for me.

If I were to generalize based on myself, I'd say exactly the opposite. But then maybe I got over my man problems when I was quite young? Most of my friends are and have been male.

In any case, I prefer looking at men and rendering them. I don't think my father has anything to do with it.

I think the types of content available are more indicative of the sort of popular fantasy art that's already out there (Valejo, Royo, etc.), and people are just trying to recreate their own version. I doubt there's any deep psychological meaning, other than that most of us Poser users aren't all that innovative (in a strictly artistic sense), so we tend to reproduce popular memes.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - I agree with JoePublic. The future for Poser is Genesis, whether people want to admit it or not. Reality check, any new figure that is not made by Daz will die off within weeks regardless how great they are. Why? There is no other company/group that can sustain or market a figure like they do. Simple as that. This Dson importer will improve and soon Genesis will work without any issues. But use what you want, I just prefer using a figure that is a cut above the rest that has the most support and flexibility. If Daz was forcing a piece of sh!t model into Poser then I would be against everything they are trying to do, but that is not the case. Genesis is all the men you need all in one.

Yeah, well... until the DSON importer does improve, Genesis does not have much of a place in Poser. I am not buying any new DSON content -- the new horse, for example -- until I see a BIG, BIG, BIG improvement. I just don't trust it at the moment.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote -
Sorry, M5 is a male figure that works in Poser, so he gets to be included now too. Sorry if that bothers you. And it gives me a reason to play around in Poser as well. ;)

You keep saying Genesis works in Poser. It doesn't. With luck it works with a limited subset of Poser features. Perhaps if you continue to play around with the program you might notice that.

I am not anti-daz or anti-Genesis. I would be very pleased if the importer worked properly and I applaud the progress made so far.

I am pleased for you that it works for you. But for many people trying to do something a bit more complicated, it is, at the moment totally and utterly useless.

And so some new bloke figures would get a warm welcome from me.

"Generalizations based on personal experience frequently don't apply to that many people. It's certainly not true for me."

Heh, heh, I should have added "consciously or unconsciously." Anything can be overanalyzed and as Freud (perhaps apocrypha), ‘sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.’ Environment, popular memes etc. certainly play a part in tastes attitudes and behavior. OTOH, though it’s been decades ago that I studied/worked in psychology (in the pre-neuroscience era), I remain convinced that experiences, especially early ones, play an important role. The connections are often not something we may be aware of – even unconsciously suppressed, but they’re there – good, bad or indifferent. Doesn’t mean that you dislike men with large, red noses because you were frightened by a clown when you were 3 – but it could ÷)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - > Quote - I agree with JoePublic. The future for Poser is Genesis, whether people want to admit it or not. Reality check, any new figure that is not made by Daz will die off within weeks regardless how great they are. Why? There is no other company/group that can sustain or market a figure like they do. Simple as that. This Dson importer will improve and soon Genesis will work without any issues. But use what you want, I just prefer using a figure that is a cut above the rest that has the most support and flexibility. If Daz was forcing a piece of sh!t model into Poser then I would be against everything they are trying to do, but that is not the case. Genesis is all the men you need all in one.

Yeah, well... until the DSON importer does improve, Genesis does not have much of a place in Poser. I am not buying any new DSON content -- the new horse, for example -- until I see a BIG, BIG, BIG improvement. I just don't trust it at the moment.

This I agree with. At the moment there are still way to many issues to be used hassel free. Yes I can Get all the functionality of Genesis, but at this stage it is a slightly painfull process to use.

My Renderosity Store

Quote - Yeah, well... until the DSON importer does improve, Genesis does not have much of a place in Poser. I am not buying any new DSON content -- the new horse, for example -- until I see a BIG, BIG, BIG improvement. I just don't trust it at the moment.

Yeah, what Moriador said. It needs more work. I am keen to encourage that, as much as I am keen to be supportive of the fact that they have launched the DSON Importer and are trying to support and sell to Poser users.

But I need to be confident Daz are on top of that first part, support, before they will sell much to me.

So far the signs are good, with a couple of revised DSON Importer builds, and some clear improvement between them.

But there are still performance and instability issues, in my experience of using it... and I need to be confident they are being resolved, before I will more fully commit to procuring much in the way of Genesis content.

I think all I can do in that front is wait until Daz's developers have at least a couple more revised builds in the bag... which are continuing to show signs of improvement.

Evidence of continued cooperation with SM too... with some of whatever further is required from the Poser Team side... I don't know if Genesis working when rendering with Queue Manager will be down to SM updating this along the same lines they updated Poser in SR3.1?

Or does Genesis work in Queue Manager now, and I'm behind the curve there?

Genesis are great, but if you say "The future for Poser is geneis" I hope not, just because Genesis was a figure that was created to be used in Daz studio, and the first thought of DAZ3d, I think, was "The future for Pose is Daz Studio with Genesis", I think they notice that they were wrong, but they notice too late, and DSON is their answer to that mistake.

So, nobody can discuss Genesis is a great think, it is a great thing in every aspect but if you are using it in DS, but till they don't make a "Genesis" with the Poser WM system, they cannot be the future of Poser.

adh3d website

Well whatever the future holds in terms of figures for Poser, I do not see it coming from SM, thats for sure.

My Renderosity Store

Here is a screenshot of Genesis with an elderly character preset made from my Aging morphs dialled up. Old men are men too lol...

My Renderosity Store

Quote - Genesis are great, but if you say "The future for Poser is geneis" I hope not, just because Genesis was a figure that was created to be used in Daz studio, and the first thought of DAZ3d, I think, was "The future for Pose is Daz Studio with Genesis", I think they notice that they were wrong, but they notice too late, and DSON is their answer to that mistake.

So, nobody can discuss Genesis is a great think, it is a great thing in every aspect but if you are using it in DS, but till they don't make a "Genesis" with the Poser WM system, they cannot be the future of Poser.

Didn't DAZ offer genesis code for Poser back when genesis first came out ?
I'm thinking I saw a thread about that on the DAZ forums.

I thought that was odd ,Never herd of Max offering code to C4D.

Don't matter if ya use Poser or D/S Pro most use a Vicky version.

Content creators mostly supported DAZ's Vicky.V3,V4,V5 etc etc

If we took Vicky out of existence ,wounder where Poser,Renderosity,DAZ would be ?

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

" If we took Vicky out of existence ,wounder where Poser,Renderosity,DAZ would be ? "

This is the argument, I think, take Daz3d to make Genesis only for DS and "forget" Poser initially and of course was a mistake.

We can take your question and make the next one:

if we took Poser out the existence, wounder where Daz3d figures would be ?

adh3d website

See the tread: "Building a new figure."
Happy Posering.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

The future of Poser is Genasis? While I am sorry I used the word "lumpy" ... sigh.. I just simply do not care for any Gen figures I have seen... and that is my own feeling. IF I never bought any more content for Poser, I have over 90 gigs to enjoy as it is... but hey.... the future is yours... I have no wish to get into a "war" over the opinions... I am just spending my "allowence" elsewhere... for example the new things being created for the old.... Kiki and other charming little young figures have a lot of refreshing things being made... Merchents here make a TON of Poser products of all descriptions... the Poser world is still WIDE OPEN for all sorts of wonderful products...

I had fun, wanted to join in the discussion, until the few got into what feels more like MAC vs PC .... well the PC is becoming more like Mac, but I also don't have to follow that trend.. I can ask NOT to have Windows 8... there are ALWAYS choices open to the world ...

the world needs more love, not arguments and agressivness...

Bye

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

Quote - " If we took Vicky out of existence ,wounder where Poser,Renderosity,DAZ would be ? "

This is the argument, I think, take Daz3d to make Genesis only for DS and "forget" Poser initially and of course was a mistake.

We can take your question and make the next one:

if we took Poser out the existence, wounder where Daz3d figures would be ?

My disclaimer.

I don't consider it any of my business what app's others use or what characters they use.
I think we should be able to use what ever we want.

I am not trying to argue or debate any thing with anyone.
Just stating some facts.

Not blaming or accusing Poser or DAZ of anything.

When DAZ first made Genesis they offered the Genesis code to Poser.
So Genesis would have work in Poser .When Genesis first came out.
Poser decided not to put the genesis code in Poser.
Not so sure I would put others code in my app ether ,Would depend on a lot of different things.
So I don't think it's accurate to say DAZ forget.
With DSON DAZ is attempting to have V5 work in Poser.

This part is my personal opinion.

If we took out any of this
Poser
Poser supporters that make the scripts ,plugs etc etc
DAZ Characters
Venders that support Vicky's

Don't think there would be a here.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Yep, pretty much what RorrKonn said.

I could write a lot, but I rather sum it up in two sentences:

The better is the enemy of the good.

and..

A life without Genesis is possible, but pointless.

;-)

Quote - the Poser world is still WIDE OPEN for all sorts of wonderful products

Yes, exactly Lyne...

I think Poser is about choice.

For me, it's great now to have the choice of Genesis. But it's also great to have the new choices of Miki4, Michelle and Tyler.

I have been using Genesis to an extent. Glad it's becoming useable in Poser.

But I am still hankering for other options to be available to me. I hope that innovation can continue on other fronts. Even if Daz Gen5 does become the "mainstream" that in time replaces their Gen4.

So I am glad to see Adh3d and 3Dream contributing new figure development... or in the latter case, a resource to further that, on the male figure front.

As I said, I'm still hoping to see more of AmbientShade's Lucas figure... ;-)

Choice isn't always good.

Not when there are limited resources.

Like a merchants' time and energy.

How are merchants supposed to put food on their table by selling $9.99 clothing for figures only a handful of people use ?

If you can make your own clothing, if you are willing to pay $2000 a piece for custom made clothing, then yes, you are entitled to all the "freedom of choice" you want.

But if you want the convenience of cheap, pre-made clothing, all those "choices" will only fraction an already too small market.

Nope, "choice" in the Poser market is bad.

The faster Genesis is established as the main figure, the faster all those other figures sink back into obscurity, the better for the community as a whole.

Besides, Genesis is so flexible, you don't really need any other humanoid figure anyway.

Quote - How are merchants supposed to get by selling $9.99 clothing for figures only a handful of people use ?

I think the point is most merchants will try to flood into the mainstream market.

Currently V4. Quite likely to become Genesis...

But that means a handful of merchants, if their stuff is of good enough quality of course, could well make comparatively good money from specialising in a sidestream figure.

Don't hold your breath, Monkey. There won't be a Lucas. If I continue him at all, it will be for my personal work. Not enough support, and the way this community treats anything that isn't Daz is more than disgusting.

Curious to see where Daz will be in another 3 to 5 years, once the majority of those who want Genesis have it, there will be no reason for them to release another figure(s). Sure, they can do David, and the mil boys and girls as Genesis morphs, etc, but once those are done, then what? Their cash cow has always been Vicky spawns, but shouldn't V5 be the end of that run?

~Shane

"But that means a handful of merchants, if their stuff is of good enough quality of course, could well make comparatively good money from specialising in a sidestream figure."

I really don't want to sound argumentative, but I've seen this claim made for 12 years now, but have never been shown proof.

Seriously, where are all those "smart" merchants making big money from a "niche-market" ?

How come each and any merchant who tried to support a non-mainstream figure got burnt ?

It's such a romantic notion, to go against the stream and just "follow your vision", but it just doesn't happen in real life.

And if it does, it's the very rare exemption that confirms the rule.

Sorry, but "quality" clothing for non-mainstream figures is financial suicide as long as your customers aren't willing to pay substantialy more per item than they would pay for mainstream figure support.

"Don't hold your breath, Monkey. There won't be a Lucas."

Good decision.

But please, don't misunderstand me.

It's good because it saves you a lot of wasted time and grief and I'm sure there are better things you can do with your talent than trying to fight DAZ.

The Poser market IS brutal because people allowed DAZ to establish a de facto monopoly, but it is what it is.

As for 3 or 4 years down the road, I definitely hope there will be a Genesis II which will make the current Genesis look as outdated and obsolete as it now makes any other figure look.

We have still a long way to go until we achive perfect photorealism.

And I will be as happily scrap "old Genesis" then as I'm now happy to scrap all those other figures.

These figures are just tools to create art. There is no need to get emotionally attached to them.

If tomorrow Smith Micro issues a figure that is even more realistic and flexible as Genesis, I happily delete Genesis as fast as I installed it.

Why keep on painting with an old set of worn out brushes when you have a much better new one ?

Quote - Don't hold your breath, Monkey. There won't be a Lucas. If I continue him at all, it will be for my personal work. Not enough support, and the way this community treats anything that isn't Daz is more than disgusting.

Curious to see where Daz will be in another 3 to 5 years, once the majority of those who want Genesis have it, there will be no reason for them to release another figure(s). Sure, they can do David, and the mil boys and girls as Genesis morphs, etc, but once those are done, then what? Their cash cow has always been Vicky spawns, but shouldn't V5 be the end of that run?

~Shane

Vicky 3 was made for Poser ,D/S Pro.was not made for app's like C4D ,Max etc etc.
She had Tri's ,high polycount.

Vicky 4 was made for Poser ,D/S Pro and for app's like C4D ,Max etc etc.
She was all quads but still had a high polycount.

Vicky 5 was made for Poser ,D/S Pro and for app's like C4D ,Max etc etc.
She's made like characters we make.

So that could open a lot of doors for Genesis & V5.

I would not be surprised to see a Genesis2 and a V6.

--

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I agree with JoePublic. The future for Poser is Genesis, whether people want to admit it or not. Reality check, any new figure that is not made by Daz will die off within weeks regardless how great they are. Why? There is no other company/group that can sustain or market a figure like they do. Simple as that. This Dson importer will improve and soon Genesis will work without any issues. But use what you want, I just prefer using a figure that is a cut above the rest that has the most support and flexibility. If Daz was forcing a piece of sh!t model into Poser then I would be against everything they are trying to do, but that is not the case. Genesis is all the men you need all in one.

Yeah, well... until the DSON importer does improve, Genesis does not have much of a place in Poser. I am not buying any new DSON content -- the new horse, for example -- until I see a BIG, BIG, BIG improvement. I just don't trust it at the moment.

This I agree with. At the moment there are still way to many issues to be used hassel free. Yes I can Get all the functionality of Genesis, but at this stage it is a slightly painfull process to use.

It's kind of acceptable for single figure portraits, and I do quite a few of those. But, as with Genesis in DS, the clothing fits to non-vanilla characters are not quite right. And even with the clothing cleavage addon, what's up with Vickie's breasts and buttocks? Shirts and pants just don't fit her right. The shrinkwrapped apearance looks really, really weird. So at the moment, I wouldn't use Genesis to render any adult female character who wasn't wearing dynamic clothes.

(Then again, most of the Genesis stuff I've bought has been for male characters because it helps fill a gaping void in content there.)

Trouble for me mainly is that I can't bear the thought of going through and converting a bunch of content. I haven't even installed DS4.5. I just can't face the enormity of the task. It demoralizes me the moment I think about it.

ETA: Believe me, I want it to work! I want it to be stable, easier, and not too resource intensive. I really, really do.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - Don't hold your breath, Monkey. There won't be a Lucas. If I continue him at all, it will be for my personal work. Not enough support, and the way this community treats anything that isn't Daz is more than disgusting.

Curious to see where Daz will be in another 3 to 5 years, once the majority of those who want Genesis have it, there will be no reason for them to release another figure(s). Sure, they can do David, and the mil boys and girls as Genesis morphs, etc, but once those are done, then what? Their cash cow has always been Vicky spawns, but shouldn't V5 be the end of that run?

~Shane

Hmmm... sad to hear Lucas is shelved for now. I wondered. But that's a pity :(

I think the issue that Daz have at the moment is that a lot of people are content to sit on their Gen4 and before content. So yeah... not sure how soon they'll manage or want to do a Gen6, eh?

My concern with the DSON Importer is simply this... what if Daz sell enough content to Poser users, with the DSON Importer in it's current state, that they don't feel the need to further improve it?

"ETA: Believe me, I want it to work! I want it to be stable, easier, and not too resource intensive. I really, really do."

Same here.

So many ideas, but I can't get to work until I have fully working single-axis scaling and figured out a working rigging pipeline.

Quote -
Vicky 5 was made for Poser ,D/S Pro and for app's like C4D ,Max etc etc.
She's made like characters we make.

So that could open a lot of doors for Genesis & V5.

I would not be surprised to see a Genesis2 and a V6.

--

Uhm, no. Err, highly, extremely doubtful, as most serious artists using Max/Maya, etc, aren't using canned DAZ figures, they're building their own, so that's not a market DAZ has any real hope of ever acquiring, at least not to any significant degree. Maybe a small sliver of it for a short while, if they're lucky. (Except, perhaps, those who pirate max/maya, but they'll just pirate genesis and its add-ons too, so that's not an option either). They tried pitching it to autodesk, and autodesk politely nodded and walked away. Because autodesk artists build their own art. High-end 3D artists are rather snobbish, and the majority of them would not risk the humilation of using a canned figure in their work. It's just how it is.

What would Genesis2 do that Genesis cant? I thought it was already the "every-figure-you-could-ever-possibly-need figure" ?

~Shane

Quote - What would Genesis2 do that Genesis cant?

Work natively in Poser perhaps? He he ;-)

"What would Genesis2 do that Genesis cant? I thought it was already the "every-figure-you-could-ever-possibly-need figure" ?"

Just because Genesis is better than previous Poser/DAZ figures doesn't mean it is perfect. Far from it.

Historically all DAZ figures sucked. It's just that they sucked quite a bit less than their competition. :-)

More mesh detail, better rigging, more morphs, there is definitely room for improvement.

Who knows what is possible with even faster computers, more storage space and future rigging technology ?

As for "every figure you could possible need", well, with fully adjustable joint centers and organic mesh modifications via GeoGrafting, what humanoid shape is left that Genesis could not be sculpted into ?

Seriously, if the same figure can be a little 4 year old girl as well as a mountain troll or a digitigrade egyptian god there really isn't much left, is there ?

What would Genesis2 do that Genesis cant?

It would allow Daz to resell all of the same stuff once again.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Quote - What would Genesis2 do that Genesis cant?

It would allow Daz to resell all of the same stuff once again.

That is no different from vendors releasing the same content for v4 over and over. How many cut off jeans have I seen this year? And next year a new batch. But in all honesty, all Genesis 2 will need is a higher polygon count so you could make more detailed morphs. That is the only limitation for me so far. And I'm sure it will be based on Genesis one and will have full compatability with all its content. Yes Genesis struggles with some v4 and m4 content, but still, the fact that it can use the bulk of it is still a huge plus and more than any other figure. Don't know why we talking but Genesis 2 anyways. That will only be released years down the line when the time is right.

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Quote - If tomorrow Smith Micro issues a figure that is even more realistic and flexible as Genesis, I happily delete Genesis as fast as I installed it.

Why keep on painting with an old set of worn out brushes when you have a much better new one ?

If Smith Micro issues a new figure that is even more realistc and flexable as Genesis, it will still die within months. The problem is not the figure, but the ability to continue marketing and supporting it. SM does not have the structures in place to do that. So like all other figures released from them, it will share the same fate. EG Tyler is an awesome figure, but no marketing push means it will always be in the shadows. His release was pathetic. I could count the content on my hand. Same with Miki4. You need to attract vendors and give them some insurance that it is a wise investment and develope for. After all, it is content that keeps a figure alive. With no decent marketing and support, it gives the exact opposite message and vendors will gladly stay clear and develope for a figure that has guarenteed them success financially, even if it is an old outdated figure.

My Renderosity Store

Quote - "But that means a handful of merchants, if their stuff is of good enough quality of course, could well make comparatively good money from specialising in a sidestream figure."

I really don't want to sound argumentative, but I've seen this claim made for 12 years now, but have never been shown proof.

Seriously, where are all those "smart" merchants making big money from a "niche-market" ?

How come each and any merchant who tried to support a non-mainstream figure got burnt ?

It's such a romantic notion, to go against the stream and just "follow your vision", but it just doesn't happen in real life.

And if it does, it's the very rare exemption that confirms the rule.

Sorry, but "quality" clothing for non-mainstream figures is financial suicide as long as your customers aren't willing to pay substantialy more per item than they would pay for mainstream figure support.

100% agree with this.

My Renderosity Store

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I agree with JoePublic. The future for Poser is Genesis, whether people want to admit it or not. Reality check, any new figure that is not made by Daz will die off within weeks regardless how great they are. Why? There is no other company/group that can sustain or market a figure like they do. Simple as that. This Dson importer will improve and soon Genesis will work without any issues. But use what you want, I just prefer using a figure that is a cut above the rest that has the most support and flexibility. If Daz was forcing a piece of sh!t model into Poser then I would be against everything they are trying to do, but that is not the case. Genesis is all the men you need all in one.

Yeah, well... until the DSON importer does improve, Genesis does not have much of a place in Poser. I am not buying any new DSON content -- the new horse, for example -- until I see a BIG, BIG, BIG improvement. I just don't trust it at the moment.

This I agree with. At the moment there are still way to many issues to be used hassel free. Yes I can Get all the functionality of Genesis, but at this stage it is a slightly painfull process to use.

It's kind of acceptable for single figure portraits, and I do quite a few of those. But, as with Genesis in DS, the clothing fits to non-vanilla characters are not quite right. And even with the clothing cleavage addon, what's up with Vickie's breasts and buttocks? Shirts and pants just don't fit her right. The shrinkwrapped apearance looks really, really weird. So at the moment, I wouldn't use Genesis to render any adult female character who wasn't wearing dynamic clothes.

(Then again, most of the Genesis stuff I've bought has been for male characters because it helps fill a gaping void in content there.)

Trouble for me mainly is that I can't bear the thought of going through and converting a bunch of content. I haven't even installed DS4.5. I just can't face the enormity of the task. It demoralizes me the moment I think about it.

ETA: Believe me, I want it to work! I want it to be stable, easier, and not too resource intensive. I really, really do.

zBrush is fast at fixing stuff

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - > Quote - What would Genesis2 do that Genesis cant?

It would allow Daz to resell all of the same stuff once again.

That is no different from vendors releasing the same content for v4 over and over. How many cut off jeans have I seen this year? And next year a new batch. But in all honesty, all Genesis 2 will need is a higher polygon count so you could make more detailed morphs. That is the only limitation for me so far. And I'm sure it will be based on Genesis one and will have full compatability with all its content. Yes Genesis struggles with some v4 and m4 content, but still, the fact that it can use the bulk of it is still a huge plus and more than any other figure. Don't know why we talking but Genesis 2 anyways. That will only be released years down the line when the time is right.

With V5 & Genesis 18,000 n sum polycount.

You can use a displacement map and have a 4 million polycount detail.

But still have a low 18,000 n sum polycount for rigging morphing etc etc.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - > Quote -

Vicky 5 was made for Poser ,D/S Pro and for app's like C4D ,Max etc etc.
She's made like characters we make.

So that could open a lot of doors for Genesis & V5.

I would not be surprised to see a Genesis2 and a V6.

--

Uhm, no. Err, highly, extremely doubtful, as most serious artists using Max/Maya, etc, aren't using canned DAZ figures, they're building their own, so that's not a market DAZ has any real hope of ever acquiring, at least not to any significant degree. Maybe a small sliver of it for a short while, if they're lucky. (Except, perhaps, those who pirate max/maya, but they'll just pirate genesis and its add-ons too, so that's not an option either). They tried pitching it to autodesk, and autodesk politely nodded and walked away. Because autodesk artists build their own art. High-end 3D artists are rather snobbish, and the majority of them would not risk the humilation of using a canned figure in their work. It's just how it is.

What would Genesis2 do that Genesis cant? I thought it was already the "every-figure-you-could-ever-possibly-need figure" ?

~Shane

And the URL's to these Artist that have made there own Genesis ?

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - What would Genesis2 do that Genesis cant?

It would allow Daz to resell all of the same stuff once again.

That is no different from vendors releasing the same content for v4 over and over. How many cut off jeans have I seen this year? And next year a new batch. But in all honesty, all Genesis 2 will need is a higher polygon count so you could make more detailed morphs. That is the only limitation for me so far. And I'm sure it will be based on Genesis one and will have full compatability with all its content. Yes Genesis struggles with some v4 and m4 content, but still, the fact that it can use the bulk of it is still a huge plus and more than any other figure. Don't know why we talking but Genesis 2 anyways. That will only be released years down the line when the time is right.

With V5 & Genesis 18,000 n sum polycount.

You can use a displacement map and have a 4 million polycount detail.

But still have a low 18,000 n sum polycount for rigging morphing etc etc.

Agreed, you can have displacement maps, but most people prefer morph detail over displacement maps. You also end up having the issue of poke through when using displacements dialed up to a certain degree.

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where are the men who bend good in tights? men in tights, err, leotards.

i haz a feeling we won't be seeing a wm M4.

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Quote - Don't hold your breath, Monkey. There won't be a Lucas. If I continue him at all, it will be for my personal work. Not enough support, and the way this community treats anything that isn't Daz is more than disgusting.

Curious to see where Daz will be in another 3 to 5 years, once the majority of those who want Genesis have it, there will be no reason for them to release another figure(s). Sure, they can do David, and the mil boys and girls as Genesis morphs, etc, but once those are done, then what? Their cash cow has always been Vicky spawns, but shouldn't V5 be the end of that run?

~Shane

Oh, that's a great shame. I was looking forward to seeing more of Lucas. Looks like M3 will carry on as my go-to male figure for the future then.

I imagine Daz will just keep on churning out more new versions of Genesis/Vicky/whatever and people will keep on buying the new versions.... "it's got a new hat!" :D

At the price they're charging for all this new Genesis stuff, they'll have priced themselves out fo the Poser market anyway.

Well, MY Poser market anyway.

"Looks like M3 will carry on as my go-to male figure for the future then. I imagine Daz will just keep on churning out more new versions of Genesis/Vicky/whatever and people will keep on buying the new versions.... "it's got a new hat!" :D"

I truly don't understand that if there are two versions of the virtually exact same figure around, people deliberately choose the lesser one ?

The only thing you "lose" when replacing M3 with Genesis are horribly rigged shoulders.

What you gain is unprecedented morphing flexibility, much better overall rigging, access to 3rd, 4th and 5th generation clothing and to 4th and 5th generation textures.

I truly can't see the logic behind that ???

Quote -
And the URL's to these Artist that have made their own Genesis ?

The use of a genesis-type figure in 3D is rather specific to the hobbyist poser/daz world, which is a very small fraction of the 3D art community. It's generally not used in professional applications. You may find a handful of low-budget groups using genesis or other poser figures in their indie/prototype games, but even then with the licensing issues, all the modifictions that would have to be done to the geometry, the rigs, etc, it's not worth it. Mostly you'll see stock poser figures used in commercials for products like medications, etc, and crime scene/forensics reinactments, demos, etc. - projects that need to be put together in an extremely short period of time. But when it comes to big budget stuff - video games, films, toy/model manufacturing - which makes up the majority of the 3D industry - most of those models are built from scratch by professional character artists who make sculpting humans and humanoids their full time job, and they usually look a lot more believable than anything daz or poser has ever produced.

for URLs to some of those artists:

zbrushcentral.com

cgsociety.org

gameartisans.org

just 3 of many.

~Shane

Some of the stuff on ZBrushcentral in particular, e.g. in member sketchbook threads, is mind blowingly awesome :-)

Seen some clips of rigging in Houdini too. Awesome looking stuff. Which reminds me, I meant to download the latest Personal Learning Edition of that... off to do that now ;-)

Yeah... I got ZBrush, and learning that now, with a view to expanding on what I've been doing so far in Poser. Yes... I do want to learn to make more of my own content. I think there are a fair few Poser users interested in doing that.

I am keen on seeing more native Poser figures because I can potentially use them with GoZ in Poser... and develop a workflow there.

As yet, I don't think GoZ-ing Genesis from Poser will work? ...although sure, if not, maybe it will in time...

GoZ is just a time saver really of course, I know. But that said, I think doing any sort of morphing of / for Genesis in ZBrush would need to involve DS4.5 at present?

Quote - That is no different from vendors releasing the same content for v4 over and over. How many cut off jeans have I seen this year? And next year a new batch. But in all honesty, all Genesis 2 will need is a higher polygon count so you could make more detailed morphs. That is the only limitation for me so far. And I'm sure it will be based on Genesis one and will have full compatability with all its content. Yes Genesis struggles with some v4 and m4 content, but still, the fact that it can use the bulk of it is still a huge plus and more than any other figure. Don't know why we talking but Genesis 2 anyways. That will only be released years down the line when the time is right.

With V5 & Genesis 18,000 n sum polycount.

You can use a displacement map and have a 4 million polycount detail.

But still have a low 18,000 n sum polycount for rigging morphing etc etc.

Agreed, you can have displacement maps, but most people prefer morph detail over displacement maps. You also end up having the issue of poke through when using displacements dialed up to a certain degree.

Don't know what the further holds "you would half to ask the ancient mayans about that LMAO" or what DAZ politics are.

I do know high end apps makes a character with a polycount around 20,000 with subdivisions ,weight map rigs and a displacement map.
I know this is new to Poser n DAZ but this is how high end app's have always made characters.

Never have I seen a frozen 60,000 polycount character made for a high end app.
If some one tried to hire me to make a frozen 60,000 polycount character made for a high end app.
I would tell them there insane & refuse the job.

Genesis was made for high end app's.
DAZ V4 will be the last mesh from them with a high polycount.

Character with a polycount around 20,000 with subdivisions ,weight map rigs and a displacement map.
Are rig able , they will bend better.
There easier to make morphs for.
Easier to make cloths for.
Poser & D/S Pro have GoZ so you can tweak poke threws etc etc fast.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Oh yeah, on a side note, anyone tried converting (auto-fitting) the M4 genitals for use with Genesis yet?

Joe's render above just reminded me that this idea had crossed my mind before... ;-)

Well, yes, the ability to create a (photo-)realistic human mesh from scratch is pretty much a prerequisition for finding work as a professional CGI-artist.

Otoh, creating a fully working professionally made Poser/Studio figure is much harder than creating a "one-shot" figure.

A Poser/Studio figure has to work across vastly different shapes, it has to be robust, easy to use and create content for, it has to withstand abuse by hobbyist artists and it has to work in a program that costs only a fraction of professional CGI software on computers that are usually a couple of years old.

A good CGI artist can create a one-shot human in a week or two.

A figure system like Genesis, based on laser scans of actual humans, took several years to be created by a team.

So, while both the professional custom made figures and the Poser/DAZ figures are realistic virtual humans, it's really all apples and oranges apart from the outer shape.

And as for realism in general, a lot of professional meshes are just as guilty of "eyeballing" and "bad anatomy" (usually labeled as "hyperrealism" or simply "artistic freedom" as most Poser/DAZ meshes are.

In other words, kitsch will be kitsch, wether you created it from scratch on a $3000 software or bought it for $9.99 at DAZ.

Attached is my best attempt so far at "actual-realism" in Poser.

Still firmly this side of the uncanny valley, but not too bad for an amateur using a little hobbyist proggy on a laptop, if I may say so myself.

I'm pretty sure in three to five years, actual, true, big screen movie quality photorealism will be just a few mouseclicks away.

;-)

Quote -> Quote -

And the URL's to these Artist that have made their own Genesis ?

The use of a genesis-type figure in 3D is rather specific to the hobbyist poser/daz world, which is a very small fraction of the 3D art community. It's generally not used in professional applications. You may find a handful of low-budget groups using genesis or other poser figures in their indie/prototype games, but even then with the licensing issues, all the modifictions that would have to be done to the geometry, the rigs, etc, it's not worth it. Mostly you'll see stock poser figures used in commercials for products like medications, etc, and crime scene/forensics reinactments, demos, etc. - projects that need to be put together in an extremely short period of time. But when it comes to big budget stuff - video games, films, toy/model manufacturing - which makes up the majority of the 3D industry - most of those models are built from scratch by professional character artists who make sculpting humans and humanoids their full time job, and they usually look a lot more believable than anything daz or poser has ever produced.

for URLs to some of those artists:

zbrushcentral.com

cgsociety.org

gameartisans.org

just 3 of many.

~Shane

Yes I know there are some killer CGI Artist.

I ask for the URL's to the Artist that made there own Genesis.

Where are the Artist that can made a naked character that looks as good as genesis naked ?

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

As Joe says, its apples and oranges.

Here's some figure sculpts in ZBrush Central gallery, for example:-

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?169478-Luo-Qisheng-s-Sketch-Book-human-anatomies-and-heads

But, as I understand it, these are 3D CGI sculpts, more akin to classical sculpture, than to the multipurpose, ready-rigged, digital dolls / puppets / manikins which are the characters / figures we use in Poser.

Quote -Some of the stuff on ZBrushcentral in particular, e.g. in member sketchbook threads, is mind blowingly awesome :-)

Seen some clips of rigging in Houdini too. Awesome looking stuff. Which reminds me, I meant to download the latest Personal Learning Edition of that... off to do that now ;-)

Yeah... I got ZBrush, and learning that now, with a view to expanding on what I've been doing so far in Poser. Yes... I do want to learn to make more of my own content. I think there are a fair few Poser users interested in doing that.

I am keen on seeing more native Poser figures because I can potentially use them with GoZ in Poser... and develop a workflow there.

As yet, I don't think GoZ-ing Genesis from Poser will work? ...although sure, if not, maybe it will in time...

GoZ is just a time saver really of course, I know. But that said, I think doing any sort of morphing of / for Genesis in ZBrush would need to involve DS4.5 at present?

C4D ,Houdini ,Max ,Maya ,Softimage ,Lightwave

Are actually made for CGI teams.
There complected and have a high learning curve.
Some are better at different things.

Genesis was modeled in Modo.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - Oh yeah, on a side note, anyone tried converting (auto-fitting) the M4 genitals for use with Genesis yet?

Joe's render above just reminded me that this idea had crossed my mind before... ;-)

Parenting it to the pelvis gives a better result. Just cover the seems with pubic hair:) or you can redo the transmap of the genital base to blend better.

My Renderosity Store

Quote -As Joe says, its apples and oranges.

Here's some figure sculpts in ZBrush Central gallery, for example:-

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?169478-Luo-Qisheng-s-Sketch-Book-human-anatomies-and-heads

But, as I understand it, these are 3D CGI sculpts, more akin to classical sculpture, than to the multipurpose, ready-rigged, digital dolls / puppets / manikins which are the characters / figures we use in Poser.

To get a idea of zBrush.

http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/homeroom/

you can use zBrush as a stand alone app mostly for stills

you can use zBrush as a plug for high end app's.

you wouldn't use all of the stand alone tools for main app's

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - As Joe says, its apples and oranges.

Here's some figure sculpts in ZBrush Central gallery, for example:-

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?169478-Luo-Qisheng-s-Sketch-Book-human-anatomies-and-heads

But, as I understand it, these are 3D CGI sculpts, more akin to classical sculpture, than to the multipurpose, ready-rigged, digital dolls / puppets / manikins which are the characters / figures we use in Poser.

Any of those figures could be rigged to work in poser if the artist chose to do so, as fully functional and morphable as any of the other poser figures to date. It's not rocket science, and it doesn't take years unless the "team" spends the majority of their work days playing hacky sack in the office. One competent artist should be able to sculpt a figure ready for rigging in a day or two at most, WITHOUT the use of scanners - which most studios still don't use. That is, an actual work day - two 8 to 10-hour shifts without much distraction. A week if they take their time nit-picking details. A lot of wasted time is due to all the changes and adjustments demanded from art directors - most of which usually wind up getting scrapped in the end by the same art director. From there, another week to the rigging team, if that. The rest of the allotted time would be devoted to getting it production ready - quality assurance, morphs, textures, etc. It doesn't matter if its designed for poser or any other platform, the process is mostly the same. You don't get years. A month or two at best. If you're taking years to complete a single figure, you're not getting work in the industry. That's just insane. Studios aren't paying you to take your time. Speed and proficiency is just as vital as your knowledge of anatomy if you intend on getting future work.

I'd like to see the human that genesis was supposedly scanned from, as I keep hearing this bantered around but have never once seen a human that even remotely resembles genesis, or any of the daz figures, and I look at humans and their anatomy every day. Department store manequins are more realistic. But keep believing that gibberish if it makes you feel better about your purchases.

~Shane

5 minute Poser render.

PP 2012.

IDL + single infinite light.

EZSkin + default M5 texture.

Canned pose.

The only custom made item is the beach setting.

So, in other words, absolutely no talent needed. :-D

Yes, as I said before, a good displacement map to add more body detail wouldn't hurt, but other than that I think that's pretty decent for a CGI figure that can be used by literally anybody with no professional training whatsoever.

Easy, AmbientShade. Your CGI job is still save for the time being. ;-)

Sorry, I don't see what's wrong working with scanners. The more accuracy,the less human element, the more realism. Noone can sculpt as well as a laser can scan.

With true photorealism, there is no room for "artistic freedom" or "human error". A shape is either "correct" or it's not. No shades of gray. Just "Go, NoGo"

What the customer does with the figures, that's where the "art" (or the "non-art") comes into play.

But before that, it's all craft, not art.

I don't care if ever a major CGI movie will be made using DAZ meshes. Studios want full control over their intellectual property, so licening pre-made content is not an option for them, anyway.

All I want is for the hobbyist artists (and artisans) to have the best tools possible.

And, well, if it scares the bejesus out of some snobbish CGI-professionals, I can't see much wrong with that, either. ;-)

BTW, if you think that Genesis anatomy is so wrong, why not create a morph and/or displament map for it ? You could even re-rig it and create a standalone character like M5/V5 for it if you want to do major changes. You could change the mapping and even the mesh, using GeoGrafting.

I'm pretty sure it would sell well and you'll get the recognition of the Poser/Studio users you're after.

Quote - "Looks like M3 will carry on as my go-to male figure for the future then.
I imagine Daz will just keep on churning out more new versions of Genesis/Vicky/whatever and people will keep on buying the new versions.... "it's got a new hat!" :D"

I truly don't understand that if there are two versions of the virtually exact same figure around, people deliberately choose the lesser one ?

The only thing you "lose" when replacing M3 with Genesis are horribly rigged shoulders.

What you gain is unprecedented morphing flexibility, much better overall rigging, access to 3rd, 4th and 5th generation clothing and to 4th and 5th generation textures.

I truly can't see the logic behind that ???

I already have M3. I don't have Genesis. M3 does everything I need. I don't need Genesis or feel any interest in any of its features. I don't render kids or oddly-shaped humans. Any problems I find with M3 I can deal with in Poser or in postwork. I generally use my own or heavily modified textures as commercial textures are usually not what I need and often too low res. for me anyway. I can convert clothing and I make a lot of dynamic clothing anyway. I use M4 occasionally, but I find his shape a bit odd, M3 is usually better for what I need. If I need a realistic human for a project I use a camera instead.

That's my logic. Just personal preference for the tools I use and no interest in the ones I don't.

Lucas did interest me, so it's a pity that's not going to happen.

yep I really liked the look of lucus too.

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!

Yeah, while I understand, I was looking forward to Lucas, have a few ladies, but Ryan2/Tyler sure could have used some runtime company.

I'd just liked to have seen a new native Poser male figure... and Lucas was looking like delivering on this front... and delivering a much nicer, Poser weight mapping optimised mesh too, compared to anything else currently around, far as I can tell.

I appreciate your reasoning, in the here and now, but please, never say never Shane... is maybe all I'd say further at this point ;-)

AmbientShade :

I started CGI before zBrush existed.
So I model the mesh first in C4D then make vector maps in zBrush.
I had zBrush 1.55b lol. Think I gave about $50.00 or $75.00 for it.
Can't remember what version Smeagol was but that's when zBrush rockets ignited.

I did try the new retopology tool in zBrush4R4.
I know before Z4R4 They said 3D Coat retopolagy tools where better.
Was watching http://www.topogun.com/ Videos.
Care to tell us what ya think of topogun ,3DCoat ,zBrush retopology tools ?

Also what is your thought about
model first then vector map VS zBrush sculpt first then retopolgy .
I know a lot retopolagy but it seems faster to me to model first.
but I've never zBrush sculpt first then retopolgy .
are there pro's n con's ?

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

I thought someone was going to re-rig James or Simon to be weightmapped. The only real problem I have with Tyler is that he's really too short to be used as a companion for V4.

Change his height ... Full body scale to 105% or something :)

I don't use 3D coat, so i can't answer anything about it. I might get it at some point in the future just to see if i like it enough to use it full time.

Topogun is my preference for retopology. I haven't explored zb4r4's new retopo tools enough to give you a difinitive answer about that either. they can be tricky, so it takes practice.

from what i gather, having topogun and zb are about the same as having 3d coat, minus the uv mapping features of 3d coat. you can map in zb but it's not very intuitive and you don't have much control over the map since uv master pretty much does it for you. it's not so great at mapping a full figure, so i use blender for that, which is pretty straight forward and simple.

You have to model before you can map. sculpting avoids the necessity of having to worry about topology while modeling, so i don't really understand what your question is. Any topology you start with is going to get distorted while sculpting and will have to be retopologized anyway once the sculpt is finished, unless you're really really careful. Except in cases where you're creating morphs for a completed model, like a poser figure, but that takes a different approach anyway cause you can't divide the mesh.

~Shane

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I agree with JoePublic. The future for Poser is Genesis, whether people want to admit it or not. Reality check, any new figure that is not made by Daz will die off within weeks regardless how great they are. Why? There is no other company/group that can sustain or market a figure like they do. Simple as that. This Dson importer will improve and soon Genesis will work without any issues. But use what you want, I just prefer using a figure that is a cut above the rest that has the most support and flexibility. If Daz was forcing a piece of sh!t model into Poser then I would be against everything they are trying to do, but that is not the case. Genesis is all the men you need all in one.

Yeah, well... until the DSON importer does improve, Genesis does not have much of a place in Poser. I am not buying any new DSON content -- the new horse, for example -- until I see a BIG, BIG, BIG improvement. I just don't trust it at the moment.

This I agree with. At the moment there are still way to many issues to be used hassel free. Yes I can Get all the functionality of Genesis, but at this stage it is a slightly painfull process to use.

It's kind of acceptable for single figure portraits, and I do quite a few of those. But, as with Genesis in DS, the clothing fits to non-vanilla characters are not quite right. And even with the clothing cleavage addon, what's up with Vickie's breasts and buttocks? Shirts and pants just don't fit her right. The shrinkwrapped apearance looks really, really weird. So at the moment, I wouldn't use Genesis to render any adult female character who wasn't wearing dynamic clothes.

(Then again, most of the Genesis stuff I've bought has been for male characters because it helps fill a gaping void in content there.)

Trouble for me mainly is that I can't bear the thought of going through and converting a bunch of content. I haven't even installed DS4.5. I just can't face the enormity of the task. It demoralizes me the moment I think about it.

ETA: Believe me, I want it to work! I want it to be stable, easier, and not too resource intensive. I really, really do.

zBrush is fast at fixing stuff

I see myself quoted, but I wonder if your comment is actually meant for me. I mean, if using DS4.5 to convert clothing via DSON is too much of a pain in the butt for me, you can't really think that buying zbrush and learning to use it would be something I'd ever, ever consider... just to fix some clothes that I have no intention of buying.

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - zBrush is fast at fixing stuff

I see myself quoted, but I wonder if your comment is actually meant for me. I mean, if using DS4.5 to convert clothing via DSON is too much of a pain in the butt for me, you can't really think that buying zbrush and learning to use it would be something I'd ever, ever consider... just to fix some clothes that I have no intention of buying.

LMAO ,Well when you put it that way I do sound insaner then normal LOL.

Since Poser has GoZ it's fast to tweak any thing ,poke threws
,tweak a peace of clothing ,hair. any thing.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote -I don't use 3D coat, so i can't answer anything about it. I might get it at some point in the future just to see if i like it enough to use it full time.

Topogun is my preference for retopology. I haven't explored zb4r4's new retopo tools enough to give you a difinitive answer about that either. they can be tricky, so it takes practice.

from what i gather, having topogun and zb are about the same as having 3d coat, minus the uv mapping features of 3d coat. you can map in zb but it's not very intuitive and you don't have much control over the map since uv master pretty much does it for you. it's not so great at mapping a full figure, so i use blender for that, which is pretty straight forward and simple.

You have to model before you can map. sculpting avoids the necessity of having to worry about topology while modeling, so i don't really understand what your question is. Any topology you start with is going to get distorted while sculpting and will have to be retopologized anyway once the sculpt is finished, unless you're really really careful. Except in cases where you're creating morphs for a completed model, like a poser figure, but that takes a different approach anyway cause you can't divide the mesh.

~Shane

I like to check out all the new app's ,tools n work flows ,See how fast they are.
You know CGI just is not the fastest Art Medium.

Don't get me wrong I love my zBrush but I do not get how it's faster to Re topology.
Probably cause I learned to model before Re topology existed.

It's faster for me to just model the mesh in C4D.
Then
Send it to zBrush for vector maps.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote -
I like to check out all the new app's ,tools n work flows ,See how fast they are.
You know CGI just is not the fastest Art Medium.

Don't get me wrong I love my zBrush but I do not get how it's faster to Re topology.
Probably cause I learned to model before Re topology existed.

It's faster for me to just model the mesh in C4D.
Then
Send it to zBrush for vector maps.

I started modeling before using zbrush too.

If you're still using 1.5 then it's understandable why you would think that modeling before sculpting is faster. 4r4 is nothing like 1.5. It's barely even the same program now. Hard surface modeling is different, but when it comes to organic shapes, Most people agree that sculpting is faster than modeling, which is why modeling is quickly becoming an outdated process. When I'm working on a hard surface model, I poly model first most of the time. But I dont do a lot of that. Most of what I do is organic.

In the end, its whatever you're comfortable with, as long as its proficient and your geometry is accurate. Everyone has their own workflow.

~Shane

I've been trying to learn to model some clothing, for the recent new Poser figures; Anastasia, Michelle, Miki4 and Tyler (which is perhaps the only aspect here holding this posting vaguely on topic... LOL... sorry).

So far, had most success using one of Lyrra's Quicksuits (for Alyson2 / Anastasia). I am hoping she brings forth her promised Tyler and Miki4 ones quite soon ;-)

But I have tinkered with using the Mesh Extract subtool in ZB, on a mask painted on Miki4, then QRemesher.

Not great results as yet... but I'm sure that's just me, at present.

Not totally sure of the legitimacy of this technique, for making Poser content, for these figures that are not my own, and whether it renders a mesh that is sufficiently non-derivative to actually redistribute though... if I ever got good enough at it to do so.

Does anyone else use this ZB based technique for Poser clothing?

At present I am leaning more towards starting with a Quicksuit, starting out in the Poly Modeller, Silo or Hexagon, then taking it into ZB after this point and scultpting it... to get details and maybe displacement on top...

Quote -I've been trying to learn to model some clothing, for the recent new Poser figures; Anastasia, Michelle, Miki4 and Tyler (which is perhaps the only aspect here holding this posting vaguely on topic... LOL... sorry).

So far, had most success using one of Lyrra's Quicksuits (for Alyson2 / Anastasia). I am hoping she brings forth her promised Tyler and Miki4 ones quite soon ;-)

But I have tinkered with using the Mesh Extract subtool in ZB, on a mask painted on Miki4, then QRemesher.

Not great results as yet... but I'm sure that's just me, at present.

Not totally sure of the legitimacy of this technique, for making Poser content, for these figures that are not my own, and whether it renders a mesh that is sufficiently non-derivative to actually redistribute though... if I ever got good enough at it to do so.

Does anyone else use this ZB based technique for Poser clothing?

At present I am leaning more towards starting with a Quicksuit, starting out in the Poly Modeller, Silo or Hexagon, then taking it into ZB after this point and scultpting it... to get details and maybe displacement on top...

I applauder you ambition and wish you the best of luck.

The last thing I want to do is to discourage you.
CGI Rocks once you learn it.
Once you learn it you can bring your imagination in to reality, Magic.

for making Poser content I would suggest this order of learning.
Poly Modeling.
Mapping.
Texturing.
Displacement maps.

If your gong to make Poser content you need to learn the legel rules.

You can make or buy a mannequin and extrude ,shrink wrap etc etc the mannequin.
Can not extrude ,shrink wrap etc etc any of DAZ characters.

Same rule probably apply s to all characters.

zBrush For Poser content.
Brushes for morphs.
I might use Spot light for texturing.
Brushes for displacement map.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Don't worry, I'd say I comprehend the legal considerations perfectly well. We probably don't want to get into that in depth in this thread either...

My whole post there was a bit OT really for this thread.

But at present I'm leaning toward that exact approach you layout RorrKonn, with the addition of sculpting:-

Poly modelling (maybe based on a Quicksuit, e.g. Lyrra's or those distributed by EnglishBob, for clothing)
Sculpting the poly model further in ZBrush
Mapping (ZBrush or Silo or Hexagon)
Texturing (ZBrush or Photoshop CS5 Extended)
Displacement Mapping (possibly involving sculpting a displacement layer in ZBrush)

It's principally for hobby enjoyment... but I aim for reasonably high standards... so my progress is slow ;-)

Quote -Don't worry, I'd say I comprehend the legal considerations perfectly well. We probably don't want to get into that in depth in this thread either...

My whole post there was a bit OT really for this thread.

But at present I'm leaning toward that exact approach you layout RorrKonn, with the addition of sculpting:-

Poly modelling (maybe based on a Quicksuit, e.g. Lyrra's or those distributed by EnglishBob, for clothing)

Sculpting the poly model further in ZBrush

Mapping (ZBrush or Silo or Hexagon)

Texturing (ZBrush or Photoshop CS5 Extended)

Displacement Mapping (possibly involving sculpting a displacement layer in ZBrush)

It's principally for hobby enjoyment... but I aim for reasonably high standards... so my progress is slow ;-)

There's a price to be paid for every thing.
CGI is the most powerful Art Medium Artist have ever known.

The Price for CGI is time.

So many great projects never get completed cause Artist get bored.
They end up with a lot of 1/2 finished Art and empty galleys.
So many great Artist fade away cause time stole there hope.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - > Quote -Don't worry, I'd say I comprehend the legal considerations perfectly well. We probably don't want to get into that in depth in this thread either...

My whole post there was a bit OT really for this thread.

But at present I'm leaning toward that exact approach you layout RorrKonn, with the addition of sculpting:-

Poly modelling (maybe based on a Quicksuit, e.g. Lyrra's or those distributed by EnglishBob, for clothing)

Sculpting the poly model further in ZBrush

Mapping (ZBrush or Silo or Hexagon)

Texturing (ZBrush or Photoshop CS5 Extended)

Displacement Mapping (possibly involving sculpting a displacement layer in ZBrush)

It's principally for hobby enjoyment... but I aim for reasonably high standards... so my progress is slow ;-)

There's a price to be paid for every thing.
CGI is the most powerful Art Medium Artist have ever known.

The Price for CGI is time.

So many great projects never get completed cause Artist get bored.
They end up with a lot of 1/2 finished Art and empty galleys.
So many great Artist fade away cause time stole there hope.

it's our pets who suffer the most. crying for their walks and belly rubs.

and our kidneys suffer for the untold hours sitting at the compy.

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Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: So I'll Ask Again, Where are the Men?