Please-Please NO FIGHTS, Please !!!!!

Would anybody that exported a Genesis from DS to be used in Poser check:

Load the exported Genesis in Poser.

Select one of the "toes" groups.
Under Morph in the parameters palette?
What Morphs are there?
I get:

• AA
• Lips pucker wide
• Lips Pucker

Select any of the fingertips.
Under Morph in the parameters palette?
What Morphs are there?
I get:

• AA
• Mouth Smile open
• Mouth smile
• Lips pucker wide
• Lips Pucker

And then finally the usefull morphs start.

The fingers have some less, as have the hands, forearms, shoulders, the collars.

Select the neck and check the Morphs.

Discovered while looking deeper into Genesis to create a morph tutorial.
This is a Neutral observation I found in the Genesis I exported from DS.
Please stick to actual facts.
Thank you.
Tony

 

Moderators, please feel free to lock if this gets out of hand.

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"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

I'll take a box of Dots, some Swedish Fish, and a Snickers Bar, please.

Also a large popcorn, with butter.

And an extra large Coke.

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Selecting all of the body parts has the same result. No morphs for me. Fingertips, neck and toes all checked. All morphs are housed in the body in groups.

 

Tony, the morphs you list have indeed been exported, but they are hidden like all the other morphs in my copy of Genesis..

Only the morphs in the body and the head actor are visible.

I can understand the empty "full body morphs".
Not nice, but I can understand in a way.

"Lips Pucker" in toes, or in the fingertips is less understandable.

If "Lips Pucker" would have been everywhere , I could have understood again.

"AA" morph in all fingertips is beyond me.

If "AA" morph would have been everywhere, I could have understood again.

Any more takers?

BB, David, enjoy your meal. :-)

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"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

i'd blame God in all honesty, he had a busy week and said "Stuff it" , it'll do as it is, in fact i think it goes further than that and proves gods existence, and he has a sense of humour...

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I don't have those morphs present-I was RIPPED OFF!!!!  :lol:

I exported it in late March, IIRC...

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OK I have to admit it, being able to pucker your toes is a game changer.

Sorry couldn't resist it.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - I can understand the empty "full body morphs".
Not nice, but I can understand in a way.

For once, Tony, I'm with you. I've seen this sort of thing before, but usually in clothing items (boots that contain breast morphs, for example.)

Does anyone know how/why this happens? It's not a problem for me, but I've always wondered what was going on with it.

And Hornet...

I thought LaurieA was the resident foot person! Now, here you come!

Laurie is a the shoe lady, BW; I think you're thinking of someone else...

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“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
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Quote - Laurie is a the shoe lady, BW; I think you're thinking of someone else...

No, Laurie is indeed the foot lady. Her distaste for most Poser figures' default bare feet is perhaps the motivation for her to create so many lovely shoes, in order to cover them up.

But she is definitely/possibly a, hmmm.... can I say? "connoisseur" of feet.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Laurie is clearly the one to ask what feet look like when the toes are puckered.  I,m not sure but I have some strange pictures in my imagination but then I guess I'm ......well.......err....strange.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Ok, this tread has been up for ONE day.

@WandW; Check the size of your genesis cr2.
If that is +/- 24 MB then you alss have all the stupid morphs but they are hidden.

@basicwiz
How ths comes?
Sloppy programming.
Sloppy creators.
Lack of quality control.
Not having, or not listening to, beta testers.

@ ALL

Genesis is out more then a YEAR.

All have been fighting over how good or bad Genesis is.

My conclusion after today is: BRUTAL, but to the point.

None of you ever knew where you where talking about.

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I'm sorry. I'm not getting the point, vilters. What are you so angry about?

Are those morph channels also present in the toes in DS?

 

~Shane

Sorry, I over reacted, but this is unbelievable.

While the object file is OK (minus the ears), and has some of the best poly distribution of any, if not all figures, the cr2 exported from DS for Poser is a polluted mess.

All these Genesis fights have been going on over a mess like THAT?

After 17 years, we are still waiting for the "first ever" flawless figure.

Never mind HI or LO poly this time.

I was at least, and this would / could / should have been a normal community reaction, hoping for some concrete information about other Poser users exported Genesis cr2's.

So everybody comes here to bla-bla-bla, but nobody cares to check.
OK, point taken.

Shane, I have no clue in DS as I am not interested in DS at all.

When it became free, I installed DS, exported a Genesis to Poser "as is", and deleted DS.

As everybody was bragging about how good Genesis was, I was just interested in obtaining a Quality Medium Poly figure: The obj file being 1.9 MB, but my eyes could not believe the 24MB for the cr2. Never had the free time to check, I did now while preparing to write another morph tutorial. What a mess.

There went (yes went) Genesis into the trash can.

And this is what all those meaningless fights where about?
But nobody actually "knew" what was in the cr2 to make it so large ??????

Let me tell you:
Clean object, but highly polluted cr2.
Not worth a second look ever again.

My humble personal opinion.

Sorry, not amused.

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"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - Are those morph channels also present in the toes in DS?

No, Genesis only has morphs in the Body in DS4, it has "Pose Controls" in some body parts, ERC'd valueParms to you & me, but any morphs they affect are in the Body.

No the fights are not about the exported version of genesis as is, the - I think discussion rather than fights is a better word for most of it, was about trying to get a working version of V5 and M5 into poser.  We had V1,V2V3V4 in poser and I for one was very disappointed not to have a V5 and M5 as they are nice looking figures (in DS).  so I was hoping there would be a way to get them into poser. I think that way may be still evolving.  DAZ has hinted at something for the future.  The mesh when subD with the snarly script at present in poser looks really good to me.  There are just some refinements of the script which would be needed to make it useable for complex scenes.  I have a powerful computer and the size of the files isn't all that relevant to me.  I am sure I could make a scene with 20 low poly V5 in it, then subd it and render quite hapilly.

Sometimes a fight starts because straight after a post like mine, someone chips in with "well why not just use DS instead of poser, as poser will never be able to do what DS does?"  That would be a really annoying comment and I am sure a comment like that would naturally start a fight and is nothing to do with this discussion either so please no one say this).  Poser users want poser for a variety of reasons, and we are hoping (hoping being the operative word, and tryng would be another word) to get the figure too ie have our cake and eat it.  And I think this is a very real posibility.

Love esther

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Quote - > Quote - Are those morph channels also present in the toes in DS?

No, Genesis only has morphs in the Body in DS4, it has "Pose Controls" in some body parts, ERC'd valueParms to you & me, but any morphs they affect are in the Body.

 

Then to me, that explains why those morphs are in the toes in the exported .cr2

Seems you would have to go through and manually delete all the morphs that do not belong to a particular body part. Maybe a script could be written to automate that, but the script would have to know which morphs belong to which body part, I'd imagine. 

Since all the morphs are full body morphs, that makes sense why they would be listed in individual body parts on export. 

 

~Shane

Yeah, the discussion hasn't been about "Genesis is the best figure Poser has ever seen -- Agree or Disagree". I don't think a single person has ever suggested that Genesis in Poser is a great figure or even a particularly good one. In fact, it's been more of a "Genesis kinda sucks in Poser, how can we make it usable?"

Depending on the kinds of renders you want to do, Genesis is, however, a very well supported figure.

So: if you wanna render girls in skimpy outfits in Poser, it's not worth it. V4 et al (plus a huge variey of non-Daz females) already outperform Genesis-in-Poser.

But if you want to render anthropomorphic blends or creatures or aliens or children or dwarves or the ultimate in niche characters, human males, then Genesis-in-Poser offers the tantalizing possibility that you may use a wider variety of new clothing because 1. the unisex nature of the figure permits vendors to make clothes that fit both sexes and 2. Daz has been marketing the holylivinghell out of M5 and male clothing for months now.

There may be other reasons people are interested in Genesis-in-Poser, not least of which is to try to bridge a rift in the Poser/DS community, to try to give vendors the chance to sell to a wider market, to feel confident that Poser won't fall into obscurity, etc, etc...

But the idea that Genesis-in-Poser was supposed to be some sort of ultimate figure worth of worship. No. I don't think anyone expected that.

ETA: I have converted some Genesis clothing to use on Gen 4 figures. The result is not what I desire. Genesis clothing on Genesis is far superior, IMO. So improving Genesis-in-Poser itself is a goal I am quite interested in.

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Right Shane: The problem is in the code of the DS exporter.

And it is out of control. I am not saying random.

ha-ha- all fingertips have 5 lip/mouth morphs, that is not random.

Why are there 5  lip/mouth morphs in the fingertips?
Why are only 3 of them in the rest of the finger groups?

Why are 2 of them in the hands, forearms, shoulders and collars?

None in some other body parts.

And those lip/mouth morphs again come looking in the toes groups.

Other full body (but unused) morphs are all exported empty but they pollute the exported cr2 also.

No wonder file size went to the moon.

Lean and clean object, fat and dirty cr2

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - Lean and clean object, fat and dirty cr2

Agree completely. The exporter is in serious need of improvement.

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@ moriador

It is not about "mine is better then yours". Figure discussion.

But when I see all comments about genesis, and then start to investigate?

When I want to build an honest opinion based on facts and figures..
I like to know what I am talking about.

I look at the object. => Lean and clean. Nice !
And I look inside the cr2. => Fat and polluted. => More then 3/4 of the cr2 is pollution. Hello !

I have to conclude that no body ever checked before talking.

oeps; we x-posted :-)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Where are you seeing the lip morphs in the fingertips? As mentioned, the only morphs are in the body and head for a number of us.

They are hidden from view. See here? Click to enlarge.

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Quote - Agree completely. The exporter is in serious need of improvement.

Wont happen, DAZ have gotten what they wanted out of it, SR3's plug-in infrastructure, chances are that from now on if you want Genesis then you'll be loading DUF files from your Library rather than CR2's.

And when you "unhide" them there are all here Click to enlarge

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OK, I don't see a problem since they aren't visible. But obviously you do. Thanks.

Quote -
But when I see all comments about genesis, and then start to investigate?

Well, as far as I can remember, the most vocal proponents of Genesis as a great figure always said that it was a great figure in Daz Studio. They repeatedly said, as I recall, that it pretty much wouldn't function well (if at all) in Poser. And look... here you are proving them right.

So I guess the confusion comes from not being quite sure who you're arguing with?

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You do not see a problem?

Why should be pull all that garbadge with us?
Why not deliver a lean and clean cr2?

We use pmd files to have lean and clean cr2's, so our figures load faster?

And then we get a highly and mostly unused - polluted cr2 for Genesis?

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"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

I was hoping to get more facts and figures information.

Right now?

I am just hoping the right people are reading this.

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"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Obviously if there is bad stuff in the exported figure which isn't in DS than there is something wrong with the export process.  The exporter has I think been upgraded once.  How long ago did you throw away DS and keep your low poly V5 for awhile?

I haven't tried the export process recently either.

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

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Quote - You do not see a problem?

Why should be pull all that garbadge with us?
Why not deliver a lean and clean cr2?

We use pmd files to have lean and clean cr2's, so our figures load faster?

And then we get a highly and mostly unused - polluted cr2 for Genesis?

Oh, yes. I do see a problem.

Even from a simple user's standpoint, having a figure filled with every.single.morph you've purchased is annoying as hell.

If what you're trying to do is investigate what's wrong with the Genesis CR2 with the hopes that what you find out will help improve it, then bravo! I must completely support that.

I totally got the wrong impression of your intentions. As we all know, it's so easy to misinterpret posts on the internet. :)

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

> Quote - > Quote - ... Are those morph channels also present in the toes in DS? > > Then to me, that explains why those morphs are in the toes in the exported .cr2...

Not to me, therefore i checked: indeed the toes (left) deform when the AA viseme is dialed in (right). Render from DS4.5. So the exporter seems to be correct for this. (Normally i would give here my speach about believing what you read on the internet, but this time i skip it, because of the general precarious topic :-)

OMG, you mean Genesis has talking feet?

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Finally someone who checked in DS.

THANK YOU!

So YES: Genesis has talking feet.
And talks with ALL toes :-)
Sign language just got a new meaning :-)

LaurieA?? Where are you :-)

DAZ: You need a quality assurance department. :-)

Oef, glad we learned something.
I had to get angry first, but hey, we learned something today :-)

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who would have thought you would be so passionate about V5 toes.

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

But... but...

It's not a bug. It's a feature.

I mean, what if someone wanted to make an alien with faces on the feet? or mouths on the... oh nevermind. That whole human centipede thing just doesn't sound like Daz at all. It can't possibly be intentional.

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

So I guess I should scrap everything I once said about Genesis and multiple uvs, geografting, versatility, good poly distribution, etc, because it has some extra/misplaced parameter dials on the feet...

Give it a break vilters, why putting so much effort trying to bring down Genesis? If anything, this thread belongs to Daz forums, you know, as a bug report...

Anyway, back to my render with Anastasia.

If there is nothing more to be gained from this thread, can we move on before it deteriorates and I start deleting posts?

Seems you would have to go through and manually delete all the morphs that do not belong to a particular body part. Maybe a script could be written to automate that, but the script would have to know which morphs belong to which body part, I'd imagine.

After upgrading to SR3, when I go to delete a morph from a body part, a hierarchical list appears containing a check box for every body part that has the morph. Where before it was tedious, it is now quick and easy to clear morphs from the parts where they don't belong.

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Quote - Seems you would have to go through and manually delete all the morphs that do not belong to a particular body part. Maybe a script could be written to automate that, but the script would have to know which morphs belong to which body part, I'd imagine.

After upgrading to SR3, when I go to delete a morph from a body part, a hierarchical list appears containing a check box for every body part that has the morph. Where before it was tedious, it is now quick and easy to clear morphs from the parts where they don't belong.

But it doesn't work with all of the morphs.  There are some morphs that just show universe - those won't be deleted by clicking on the arrow & going to "delete morph".  I haven't figured out why that is just yet.  I am making a little list & I'm sending it to SM tomorrow.

In the mean time, you can uproot the stubborn stuff with a cr2 editor, of course. The search function helps, but it can take a while.

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What would be best is to compile a list of all the things wrong you find with Genesis in poser, and send that list to a Daz representative. I dont think they test to the extent that you guys do. Heaven forbid they release an update of the exporter but most of these issues remain because it is something they overlooked. Tell them about the cage issues etc. everything. They might be working on an updated version of the exporter now and are not aware of some issues Poser users have discovered.

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Quote -
Then to me, that explains why those morphs are in the toes in the exported .cr2

Seems you would have to go through and manually delete all the morphs that do not belong to a particular body part. Maybe a script could be written to automate that, but the script would have to know which morphs belong to which body part, I'd imagine. 

Since all the morphs are full body morphs, that makes sense why they would be listed in individual body parts on export. 

 

~Shane

Actually only some of the morphs are FBM's, most are PBM's & PHM's and they only hold the deltas for the region of the mesh they alter.

As the altered CR2 exporter was a half assed rush job, and that Poser wouldn't like the morphs done like that, it's comes as no surprise to find that it's butchered the morphs and added channels all over the place.

Once again, I think you should blame god and the decimilisation system. There was obviously a mis-translation when the designers told god they wanted morphing parameters. He converted the meters to feet................

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As shown above by millighost (the toe example comes from DS)

Genesis cr2 is as bad in DS as it is in Poser.

Genesis ALSO has talking fingertips and talking toes in DS.

it is even more amusing than that. :-)

The fingertips have 2 Lips Pucker morphs that are missing in the head or lips. :-)

Have a nice day
Tony

 

PS;
This is  NOT as "for" or "against" tread.

All what was written and shown here are factual observations by more then one DS and or Poser users.

Just facts and figures and we show the screengrabs to proof.

Solutions?

1. The Genesis cr2 needs a clean up in DS.

2. The exporter should only export what can be used in Poser.

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"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

No wonder all those Genesis threads were so long, with talking feet and fingertips any one using it in Poser must have been hearing voices.  Still it does conjour up a lot of ideas for creatures using Poser.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

I have to apologyse to all the good and friendly people here.

I was pretty pissed OFF yesterday when I discovered this.. Sorry for that.

But?

When a die hard Poser user has to discover, and come here to tell and show, that Genesis has talking fingertips and toes in DS and in Poser?????????????????????

That the Genesis cr2 in DS is in urgent need for a good and deep clean up?

That after more of a year of discussions, fights, locked treads and hard words, nobody actually knew what was inside?

Then something is wrong.

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"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Vilters what Version of Daz are you exporting from? Also what format did you export from Genesis .Dsf or Genesis .Duf?

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@ V01f

FYI: Standard Genesis in DS does the same thing.
See millighost example above.
I wrote that already.

i"ll check tonight.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
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Quote - @ V01f

FYI: Standard Genesis in DS does the same thing.
See millighost example above.
I wrote that already.

i"ll check tonight.

FYI, Those morphs do not come with standard Genesis. They are converted from GenX. So either they were translated incorrectly when doing the conversion. My Genesis does not have those morphs on every group, Only on the mouth. How do I know? I typed in the morph "pucker and it only registers under Genx under mouth where I assigned it. So there you go. Please do not assume everything has to do with the exporter or daz or sloppiness. Whoever translated those morphs were sloppy.

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Vilters - my version of DS4 does not show talking feet (or any other weird morph for that matter). Yes, show hidden was active

 

As I said. He is using an exported version Of Genesis that has SloppyGenx transfers. Did you do those yourself? Makes me wonder where people get there exported versions from.....

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The exporter in DS4 has definitely major flaws (locked dials, hidden dials, exploding dials) which have nothing to do with Poser - this shows mainly in conforming clothing. I have not tried DS4.5 since the change log did not indicate any fixes for this

 

Here is a screenshot showing where those morph appear Only. In Daz you type in the morph and it will only highlight groups that it is in. Note, only Head is highlighted, all else is greyed out. If they did appear in toes or hands then those catagories would be highlighted as well.

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And for pucker. Proof that they GenX transfers.

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Quote - The exporter in DS4 has definitely major flaws (locked dials, hidden dials, exploding dials) which have nothing to do with Poser - this shows mainly in conforming clothing. I have not tried DS4.5 since the change log did not indicate any fixes for this

 

It is not the exporter. It exports what your Genesis has set on it. Its best to go through your morphs in Daz and set limits to them to prevent exploding or delete what you don't want and lock/unlock what you want before you export. My Genesis in poser is perfect with no issues, except that its low poly and looks like crap.

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I expect the exporter to produce a workable CR2 when default settings are used
But I'm getting out of the thread before this escalates again

 

Ye agreed. Plus this thread is based off a wonky Genesis.Cr2 export anyways.

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Yes, that is why the same Genesis has the same talking fingertips and toes in DS also.

Unsubscribing.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
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Quote - Yes, that is why the same Genesis has the same talking fingertips and toes in DS also.

Only if your stupid enough to load a badly exported/made CR2 back into DS4.

Poser formats are not native to DS, we have to use an importer plugin to load them, which then converts them into something DS can use, this plugin pretty much stops at P6, any rigging changes made in P7, 8 & 9 are ignored when we import that content, which means most newer stuff doesn't work very well for us. So importing a Genesis CR2 into DS4 is really stupid, actually loading any Poser WM figure into DS4 is stupid, we lose the WM, it bends terribly, and is likely to "hedgehog" on you when you pose/morph it.

Like I've already said in this thread if your using the native TriAx .DUF/.DSF version of Genesis then you have NO MORPHS in the Body Parts, everything is in the Body, as technically Genesis doesn't have Body Parts for the morphs to work on.

Yep, and Like I posted, those morphs he complains about are from GenX transfers not from native Genesis.

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