Hi all,

There has been a lot of bad mouthing each other in the forum of late, and it is making people not want to post to the site. I've gotten several sitermails the last few days that state this very plainly and clearly.

We would like to do more forum challenges and such but do not have time to focus on those sort of things because we are too busy trying to put out fires. 

Everyone will not always agree and just because someone thinks a certain program is better than the other does not make it wrong or right, everyone has different opinions, likes, and dislikes. This extends to polycounts, favorite figures, texturing techniques, shaders and more.

There is an old addage: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." From now on, if I see a post that looks like it could change the course of a discussion and go way off topic or start a debate, it will be removed without notice. 

Please know I am not doing this trying to cause bad feelings, I am just trying to keep the forum a peaceful, productive enviroment.

This is not up for discussion as I just wanted to make everyone aware. This policy has the backing of Renderosity management.

Warmest Regards and happy posting!

Basicwiz

I just want to get this clear so that I don't make any more mistakes. So I emphasize: I am not arguing. I am asking for clarification.

No more debates? If we disagree about something that is not a matter of verifiable fact, we should not post? Nor ask for, nor offer, critical feedback?

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The only meaningful answer I can give you is this.

Feel free to state your opinions, regardless of what they are. Let others state their opinions. Disagreements are fine. Arguing, with the blind goal of proving one's unverifiable point is not. Let the marketplace of ideas decide those issues.

I'm simply asking that the baiting and attacks stop. This is more about the way things are being said than what is being said. 

Any thread that is primarily about bashing something is unproductive on the face.

 I hope you dont go away! It seems clear to me that disagreement is fine-personal attacks are out.

Quote - I'm sorry. I still don't quite understand. :(

I'll go away and stop bothering you.

Eric, she deleted her post. Not me.

someting nice :biggrin:

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Back at you! 

I wish the mods lots of patience, endurance, and motivation.  Trying to get a forum back under control is not the easiest task, and it comes with a lot of, shall we say, hard feelings, and little appreciation.

As a long time lurker, I've watched the forums slowly move from politeness to brashness to outright coarseness.

Thank you in advance for the effort.

Kendall

I don't know that arbitrarily deleting posts with no notice is necessarily the way to go. I mean, I can go elsewhere for that. But I ain't the mod... I just know it'll make me come here less if my posts start to disappear ;). I've gotta be honest...lol. This was the last place that let you debate without fear of having your thoughts disappear. I do agree that we all need to calm it down a few hundred notches tho. I just don't think deleting, without an explanation as to why is the way to deal with it. Of course, I can't offer other ways to deal with it, so take that with a grain of salt..lol.

When you think about it, if one knows their posts will be deleted, they may be more inclined to mouth off because there's really no threat of reprisal there other than their post disappears. That's just an educated guess tho rather than based on statement of fact ;). Why not the procedures already in place for the forums? Is there a reason those can't be enforced?

Laurie

Well, good luck with the dictatorship. Oh, sorry that wasn't nice..... I meant thank you for making this a happy place, flowing with lots of positive energy and bringing unity into the world.

 

Anyway, the only result will be that this forum will even get less visitors. Perhaps Rendo hasn't noticed it, but with every forum rule they've enforced over the last 2 years, the forum attendance decreased.

 

I agree with LaurieA...... and what I do find most funny is that about a year ago a number of us got some staff warnings to tone down. Most of us did (yes even I avoided the heated discussions), but it's obvious we weren't the problem at all..... the problem only seemed to have grown worse.

 

One thing we all know.... you may have just zapped the little life that still was left in this place and now Rendo will become just like the rest. I just miss the old days.... lot'd of people posting, at times heated discussions, no one complaining, except for the staff. I just wish all of us good luck with adjusting to the new situation. I agree though that people should refrain from attacks and if a heated discussion means a lot of attacks, then that's not good at all. Seems like people have lost the art of debating and speaking ones mind without attacking someone personally. That is a shame.

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Food for thought.....
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Quote - Seems like people have lost the art of debating and speaking ones mind without attacking someone personally. That is a shame.

Now there is a statement that gets my full support.

basicwiz, I hope you take this comment in the good spirit it is meant but feel free to delete it.  I really do understand where you are coming from and I hate the personal attacks that have taken place in over the last year, not just the last few weeks.  That said the process you outline is going to be so difficult to get right.

There are people here that are some very skilled, and thus busy people, who have given masses of help in these forums.  Yet, due to their lack of time and direct nature, many have taken offence at what has been said.  I understand both sides of this equation but I would hate to see the posts deleted.

There is a thread here at the moment "Look what I just came across" that displays another aspect.  One poster put up information that they thought to be correct and did not like the way they were corrected.  Yet another jumped in to explain that the response was just they way the person posted on all occasions.   In all cases the person in qustion was trying to further the dicussion and at no point was there any intended malice. End result, both parties aknowledged each other and the thread continued with some very interesting background.  I suspect under the new rules this thread will have been killed very early on.

 

So basicwiz, I respect your work so far and support you 100% in your aims to stop the personal attacks and the baiting but please handle the policy with care as it may achieve it's aim by killing all posts, not just the nasty ones.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

I agree with your view Basicwiz, and am glad we have a mod that actually is watching and taking care of those whom truley do want to debate.  You learn alot from debating and other's view when it comes to programs and artwork.  And let's face it this is about art and software to achieve that, not a political stand on right and wrong.

I actually slowed down here because all there seems to be is bickering and I can't go forward with verbal abuse, I don't learn anything useful, just walk away shaking my head.

Thank you. Sharen

@basicwiz:

I've watched/browsed/read most of the heated discussions here in a lurker-mode. I think you've done an excellent job as a moderator so far. So there ... thank you for doing what you do.

Good luck.

1. I hope this isn't based on the feedback of one or two pets who've gotten tweaked and threatened to pull up their pants and go home.

2. "... it will be removed without notice." Suggest a 'comment removed' otherwise some may think their post simply didn't go through.

3. I know the type of comments you're talking about but predictive deletion is tricky. Pretty much the exact same comment by one person may not elicit the same response if made by someone else or worded differently - again good luck.

4. IMO, a public warning to the individual before deletion is more fair. For repeat offenders, maybe go straight to deletion. Still, a 3 day ban may be more effective in the end.

5. It's mostly a few people on a few topics usually. I don't say this lightly as I may be in the number but again, shock therapy may be the best bet. Ban the participants. If they leave and don't come back so be it. That would be sad because again, it's usually only one or two topics that get them wound up. You have my support as long as you are fair and don't protect the teacher's pets.

"It seems clear to me that disagreement is fine-personal attacks are out."

IMO real attacks are rare here. The real problem is often the endless repetition of a subjective opinion by the same person that grates and grates and causes tempers to rise. Passive-Aggressive behavior can provoke a fight just as surely as punching someone in the face. That's why I think a few surgical strikes would work better than having everyone wondering what they can say and how they can say it. Rude, a$$hat behavior is in a category by itself and often not really a personal attack. It is unnecessary and shouldn't be rationalized, but people accept it and Animal Farm rules are in effect, so whatever.

Rather than futzing/breaking with the editor (big/colored text is great isn't it?), maybe they should work on an ignore filter, a one click 'report this post' (can be disabled for those who abuse it) etc. Maybe things will cool down once the DAZ/SM thing resolves more or summer passes or the election or whatever but there will always be something. Forum features are no substitute for common sense/courtesy or good moderation but maybe they can help.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

We already have the facility to add advisories to our posts ('language', 'nudity' etc.).

Why not two more: 'Off topic' and 'Warning'?

The 'off topic' advisory would normally be applied by the poster. It would allow for diverse discussion to happen within a thread, and yet make it easy for people to view the whole thread without those posts by modifying their forum profile to ignore off topic posts.

The 'Warning' advisory would normally only be applied by a moderator. It would serve as a public warning that the post was inappropriate in some way. Users can choose to not see posts flagged with a 'warning' advisory by modifying their forum profile.

This approach makes use of the forum functionality (advisories) that already exist and results in no deletions or censorship at all. It is left to each user to decide what they want to see.

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Quote - We already have the facility to add advisories to our posts ('language', 'nudity' etc.).

Why not two more: 'Off topic' and 'Warning'?

The 'off topic' advisory would normally be applied by the poster. It would allow for diverse discussion to happen within a thread, and yet make it easy for people to view the whole thread without those posts by modifying their forum profile to ignore off topic posts.

The 'Warning' advisory would normally only be applied by a moderator. It would serve as a public warning that the post was inappropriate in some way. Users can choose to not see posts flagged with a 'warning' advisory by modifying their forum profile.

This approach makes use of the forum functionality (advisories) that already exist and results in no deletions or censorship at all. It is left to each user to decide what they want to see.

I think this is an excellent suggestion.  It allows those who are interested in the thread, yet ignoring it over unpleasantries, to participate.

It would be nice if we could make this work.

 

I take the view that censorship is a little ott, from my personal standpoint i refrain from posting in those threads, in all honesty there are always going to be persons with "an agenda" who get a kick out of hijacking or turning threads into a personal attack.

Surely a better system would be to "warn" those involved without it seeming that heated debate was frowned upon.

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The warning advisory would not change much. If a decent discussion is going on and an inappropriate/inflamatory post is made, a warning advisory would effectively kill the thread for those who are interested in the subject but who do not want the bickering.

I don't say I don't want it, just that it would not change much

 

 

I think this is a good idea. Too many good threads have gone down hill as of late. I agree with lmckenzie that a thread removed notice should be put in place of the thread so that if someone replies to it while it's being removed it won't look like the replying person has gone nuts.

Perhaps someone can write a tutorial on how to debate without arguing.

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The one idea that I really like in all of the above is the "Comment Removed". Simply leave the comment form, but replace the text with "Comment Removed." That gives feedback to the poster and doesn't disturb the thread.

Probably the way to go.

There is another proverb: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Censorship is always a tricky thing. And this: "From now on, if I see a post that looks like it could change the course of a discussion and go way off topic or start a debate, it will be removed without notice" is utterly unacceptable in my book. Especially the "or start a debate" and the "without notice" parts.

I think you might think it's for the best, but so did Tomás de Torquemada, Kim Il-sung and some other guys who are just not worth to be mentioned.

Until now this forum was the one place in the internet where I felt a sense of community. Because 99% of the people here try to be helpful and kind. Give us an Ignore!-button for sanity's sake, but do NOT try to become the one person who decides what can be said - and what not.

 

Edit because of cross-post:

This:"Simply leave the comment form, but replace the text with "Comment Removed"." would be much(!) better, IMO.

Removing posts is not what I WANT to do. However, you'll noticed how well our policies have worked so far. I'm still waiting for a better suggestion that will stop the mean-spirited pot stirring.

And yes. It's a tiny minority that is the problem. 99% do nothing wrong.

Maybe this is an idea: If the OP indicates in the first post that his/her thread is to be without fights, a zero tolerance policy is used for disruptive behaviour.

If someone disagrees he/she can start their own thread about the subject

 

 

Quote - We already have the facility to add advisories to our posts ('language', 'nudity' etc.).

Why not two more: 'Off topic' and 'Warning'?

 

When I first read this, I thought it read "'Off topic' and 'Whining'!" :lol:

 

I guess I need to clean my glasses...

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I don't know how well the self-administered OT flag would work. Personally, I'd probably never filter out OT because thread drift by itself isn't bad. Of course, I usually enjoy the way things are free wheeling around here and a post about the latest NVIATWAS can get into gender stereotypes or whatever. That's fun and interesting. A lot of the strife isn't necessarily because of OT, it's someone with a bizarrely religious zeal about one aspect of the discussion. I may be focusing on one or two recent threads too much, but that seems to be the case. Trusting the author to flag their comments as OT in such cases may be too much to hope for.

I think a warning flag and/or deleting posts would be sufficient - especially if 'warned' posts could be filtered out in our prefs. I trust Basicwiz to use those effectively. Hopefully most of us would take the hint and be more careful if warned/deleted. Probably nothing short of ejection would deter a few but at least the ability to not see their antics would help stop things getting out of control. I do admit to taking perverse amusement in seeing how wacky things can get (as long as I can resist getting drawn in) get but even I can live without it :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - When I first read this, I thought it read "'Off topic' and 'Whining'!" :lol: I guess I need to clean my glasses...

ROFLMAO 

Quote - We already have the facility to add advisories to our posts ('language', 'nudity' etc.).

Why not two more: 'Off topic' and 'Warning'?

The 'off topic' advisory would normally be applied by the poster. It would allow for diverse discussion to happen within a thread, and yet make it easy for people to view the whole thread without those posts by modifying their forum profile to ignore off topic posts.

The 'Warning' advisory would normally only be applied by a moderator. It would serve as a public warning that the post was inappropriate in some way. Users can choose to not see posts flagged with a 'warning' advisory by modifying their forum profile.

This approach makes use of the forum functionality (advisories) that already exist and results in no deletions or censorship at all. It is left to each user to decide what they want to see.

 

This post made me think that, perhaps, forum interfaces will have to evolve at some point, and I don't mean only this one, I mean everywhere.  

Add more tools for both the staff and the users, for example, like snarly's idea of more flags, a moderator could flag a post (or user, just for the thread, if they keep it up) and then, others, could filter out certain flags, like, I walk in an interesting thread, see some inflamatory posts that are flaged, filter the "warning" flagged posts, and bingo, I have a clean thread to read peacefuly.

I've just never understood why Rendo, being just about the ONLY forum around that has no ignore feature, would rather have its mods dancing to put out fires all over the place than add that one, small, universally accepted feature. I think the strife in the forums very well may grind to a halt.

Well, as long as I'm on record as saying the deletion suggestion makes me sick to my stomach ;). How do you decide really what you can allow and what you can't? It's a slippery slope and a decision I'm really glad I don't have to make...heh.

Laurie

Laurie, I agree 100%. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I have asked for an "ignore" button. You see how far I've gotten with the idea. The programmers apparently have other, more pressing priorities. I wish I had an answer for you.

For the record, I am asking for the feature again, right now, in the coord forum.

Quote - The one idea that I really like in all of the above is the "Comment Removed". Simply leave the comment form, but replace the text with "Comment Removed." That gives feedback to the poster and doesn't disturb the thread.

Probably the way to go.

I think this sounds reasonable, if you're prepared to do it this way BasicWiz.

It would be preferable to comments just being "disappeared" without a trace, or any notification.

I have enough issues remembering / figuring out what I've actually said and what I've just imagined saying, already. LOL :lol:

So if you ever had reason to censor me, I'd much rather see a "comment removed" to put my mind at rest...

Plus it gives some sort of feedback to the poster being censored, as you say...

I like some of the ideas here and I do support the action taken up until now.  If any of my post are seen to have been misguided or have the possibility to cause offence I am happy to have the post removed.  That is because it will not of been my intention and would not like to upset others.

The irony of course is that the 1% that cause all the problems might read this thread but they are not going to add to it or take any notice.   I already moderate myself in that I try not to get involed with any 'G' discussion (although I am not perfect in t this respect) as I know where it is probably going to end.  I also tend not to follow threads when certain individuals become involved as I have a good idea where it is likely to go.  That is not to say that I stop reading just because someone is passionate about something or they are having a bad day.  I stop when one of three individuals join the thread with the same information they add everytime and have done so in any thread where they do not like the way the discussion is going. 

Sad thing is though, while I miss the odd thread that may have been educational I miss the people who used to psot here and have left, far more.

Moderating must been a thankless task so all the moderators have my respect but I am concerned that, even with the high standard of moderation we have here the number of intresting threads seem to be reducing in number, I stress the word 'seem' and it is clearly my personal view.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Perhaps you could ask them exactly WHAT they think they'd be losing with an ignore feature. Because it seems to me like they think that, due to the very resistance against it. Others before you Doug have tried. You can ignore a user in chat...why not the forums? Are they afraid you'll have nothing to do? LOLOL.

Laurie

Oh, believe me! I have PLENTY to do without having to deal with unrully children! ROFL.

I don't think it's resistance as much as it's a very low priority. The programmers, very understandably,  tend to focus more on the storefront and sales system, because that's where the money comes from.

The more people who ask for the feature, the better case my bosses can make for it. I'm just a cog in the wheel around here, but I work for a couple of VERY responsive people. They just need ammunition to fight with.

Personally, I would probably only use an "ignore" / "block user" button if it could be applied per thread... unless I noted a specific individual doing nothing else, ever, but trolling or evangelising obsessively and aggresively on one topic, I suppose...

...but, the technical implementation of per thread blocking would likely be much trickier, I would guess.

Even if I wouldn't use it, I guess a more general "ignore user" button would be welcomed by a lot of folk though...

Quote - Personally, I would probably only use an "ignore" / "block user" button if it could be applied per thread... unless I noted a specific individual doing nothing else, ever, but trolling or evangelising obsessively and aggresively on one topic, I suppose...

...but, the technical implementation of per thread blocking would likely be much trickier, I would guess.

Exactly! I dont' think I'd use one across the board. There are few forums where I've blocked anyone universally. Per thread is an awesome suggestion. Chat does that very thing and it's worked very well. There's only one instance that comes to mind where any staff needed to get involved. Perhaps Rendo needs to take a page from the chat program...lolol.

If I knew what needed to be coded, I'd offer my services for free just to get it done. However, I can't code my way out of a paper bag...lol.

Laurie

We are all humans.
We have emotions.
We love what we do.
We have a passion.
That is life.

Open discussions are what drives us to more knowledge.
Facts and figures, "hard data", screengrabs with proof.
Showing and sharing tips and tricks.

Emotions are like a 2 sided knife.
Love and hate are close together.

The "mine is better then yours" is a trigger to disaster.
The "red flag" for the bull.

Moderating is an art.

A "Comment removed", combined with a sitemail warning to the individual, would indeed be an improvement.

Have a nice day, and happy Posering to all.
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Thank you, and the other mods.  It's a tough job, but I appreciate the work you've been doing.  There's no reason we can't have lively discussion and debate without the bickering and bashing and personal attacks that a small number of posters engage in.

Quote - Perhaps you could ask them exactly WHAT they think they'd be losing with an ignore feature. Because it seems to me like they think that, due to the very resistance against it. Others before you Doug have tried. You can ignore a user in chat...why not the forums? Are they afraid you'll have nothing to do? LOLOL.

Laurie

I vote for the ignore feature as well.  On one of the political boards I frequent, the moderators have the option of putting members on "forced ignore" which really give them the power to stop the bickering.

 

Quote - Oh, believe me! I have PLENTY to do without having to deal with unrully children! ROFL.

I don't think it's resistance as much as it's a very low priority. The programmers, very understandably,  tend to focus more on the storefront and sales system, because that's where the money comes from.

The more people who ask for the feature, the better case my bosses can make for it. I'm just a cog in the wheel around here, but I work for a couple of VERY responsive people. They just need ammunition to fight with.

 

I understand the low priority and the difficult position you are in but the more people that come to these threads should also mean that more people have a look to see what is for sale and hopefully buy something.  The programmers certainly need to concentrate on the storefront but if they could find the time to add to the forums that might have a positve impact on the storefront as well.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

I like the idea.

I would love to see this place get back to what it was, a place where you can talk about all products without fear that the usual group of people will come in and try to turn it into a d/s-poser debate and have it descend into that usual non-sense.

I think those things have done more to drive people away from these forums than any strong moderation will ever accomplish.

I always love a good argument...but there is a difference between arguing and just blindly voiceing opinions based on ones personal agenda.

DAZ is not a 4-letter word, and poser is not the be all and end all entity unto itself. Poser does use DAZ products, and both daz and poser (under whichever owner) have grown as a result of the relationship between the two. Those who try to divorce one from the other are really fighting the wind....both are intimately entwined and will continue to be so. So lets let this place be open to talk about either without fear of the trolls coming in to try to shut things down.

Yeah... not been here that long... so maybe don't get the repetition of certain themes as much as some of the more veteran members.

But I'd say on the whole I find plenty of interesting threads and posts happening here, to keep me coming back...

[Comment Removed]

Quote - Psst, Rawnrr: This new "policy" is of course not directed at the Poser evangelicals who spew bile and misinformation every way they can about how much "DAZ" has "betrayed the Poser community" and that "Genesis" is nothing but an evil money grabbing scheme.

The ones who have to be purged from this fine community are of course people like us who do nothing else but trying to explain what Genesis is actually about, how technically advanced it really is and how much potential it has for vendors and users alike.

Hating on DAZ makes many people happy, and happy people buy more stuff.

Trying to educate people OTOH is boring and repetitive and noone likes that.

Thought I should clear this up for you.

;-)

 

 

Hah...well...I am sure that post will get deleted LOL

But nah...i think there are alot of reasonable people around who actually listen to things. Most things are just common sense.

Lol !

I'm all for giving the trouble makers an arse kicking.  

I still can't see for the life of me why anyone would get a bug up their arse about software for making pictures.  For that matter, I can't see why anyone would give a tin shit about what DAZ or SM do, or why, so long as it doesn't cause the end of the world, mutated children, mass starvation and so forth.  You don't like their stuff?  Don't buy it.  Simples.

I am also royally pissed off with certain people making thinly veiled - and sometime not so much - condescending and/or sarcastic remarks which are posted with the sole intent of getting up somebody's nose.  True, I can ignore them but why should I have to?  In real life, people don't get away with that sort of crap for long; somebody usually gives them a good hiding.

Anyhow, props to you, Basicwiz.  Lang may yer lum reek.  (Ask monkeycloud what it means). :) 

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Quote -  Lang may yer lum reek.  (Ask monkeycloud what it means). :) 

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Quote - Personally, I would probably only use an "ignore" / "block user" button if it could be applied per thread... unless I noted a specific individual doing nothing else, ever, but trolling or evangelising obsessively and aggresively on one topic, I suppose...

...but, the technical implementation of per thread blocking would likely be much trickier, I would guess.

Even if I wouldn't use it, I guess a more general "ignore user" button would be welcomed by a lot of folk though...

 

Yeah. "Ignore per thread" would be a nice feature!

Ignoring someone completely can mean you miss some useful posts.

 

 

 

I'm not a programmer, but the "ignore by thread" is what I've put the request in asking for. Again, I have no idea how "doable" it is. The last programming I did was in Visual Basic 6, when I wrote a radio station automation program. I'm no help when it comes to making things work on the web! (And you can all hold the snide comments that my last sentence is going to evoke! :))

Quote - > Quote -  Lang may yer lum reek.  (Ask monkeycloud what it means). :) 

Ok... I'll byte. Oh, Cloud?????????????????????????????

Literally, it means "long may your chimney smoke". I guess you can run with the metaphor from there...

It's what Scotty said in response to Mr Spock's "live long and prosper"... if I recall correctly... which, admittedly, I probably don't.

Thanks for putting in the request!

 

Quote - Thanks for putting in the request!

Well, that doesn't mean anything will come of it. As I've said before, I'm a very small cog on a much bigger wheel. But I know it's not the first time this idea's been up the flagpole. I suspect it does no harm to ask. Squeeking wheels and all of that.

I tried. We'll see.

Quote - Literally, it means "long may your chimney smoke". I guess you can run with the metaphor from there...

ROFLMAO. I'm not even going to BEGIN going all the places that could lead me! VERY good one!

I think you're doing the right thing, and thanks for the effort.  Too many times, a really useful and interesting thread ends up locked.  I'd rather have the derailing posts removed, including my own, than have useful threads locked.

I've never been a mod here, but I am at other sites, and I know it's not easy.  A large site like Slashdot needs community moderation, but a small one like this works best as a benevolent dictatorship.  Rules, warnings, etc. are like catnip to the wannabe Internet lawyers out there.  Some people live to skirt rules, try to turn mods against each other, and see how far they can get before the banhammer falls.  It's a huge time sink, and just not worth it. 

 

 

Ok everybody seems to think that the ignore button is the best idea. So go here http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2853353 where basicwiz put in a request and put your 2 cents worth in. Perhaps, like a petition, if enough of us make the request, they will listen.

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Put in my vote!

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Another 'for' vote added.

 

 

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I've been beggng for an ignore button pretty much forever.   Things were looking up for one a while back but nothing ever came of it :sadface:

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I've always been abivalent - at best - about the Ignore button.  I'd rather the problem be tackled at source than hidden from sight.

Sorry, chaps; I ain't voting for it.

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I am on record in pretty much every thread like this as being in full support of Basicwiz and all he does and tries to do, and I am so again, but . . .

There is a difference between not feedng a troll and slaying it.  Pushing one away with warnings, cleaning up after it with post deletions, and pretending it does not exist with any form of ignore feature are all useless.

Ban the beasts.  Put a guard at the gate and just kill the things when they appear.

I forget where I read this - maybe I made it up when I was tired and forgot:  "Zombies are not pets - even the cutest ones will, at some point, will require a shotgun blast to the head."

Pulling the trigger on one will probably not deter then next, but it should be easier than arm wresting a programmer for ignore codes and spending hours removing comments.

I'll add my 2c because it is relevant.

To start with, I imagine Modding is a PITA.  You can never please everyone all the time and I imagine there are many situations similar to dealings I have with my children.  Where at some point I send everyone to their rooms and tell them I don't give a crap who is right.

So to note:  I can understand why Mods get to the point they do and decide to take extreme actions to get things under control.

However from my perspective.  That is actually probably the number 1 reason I had previously left the community.  There were different mods then.  Some had favorites and it was obvious.  Those people could post anything they wanted.  Nobody could respond without getting warnings or bans.  

Back then there was really no way to debate either.  Those certain people would jump in and make it a personal attack fest.  I am a grown up and a big fan of healthy debate.  I despise personal attacks though, I think people use them when they can't come up with intelligent arguments.

Well when I left the forums, I left the store, and left 3d altogether for a long while.  It was such a massive turn off, the whole thing.

I'm personally VERY opinionated.  I feel that this policy will cause me to avoid commenting on requests for opinions or any sort of debated topic.  I think I am mostly in LaurieAs camp on this one.

I imagine this is a problem that will go on forever until Mods are given better tools.  I do not envy your job, not one single bit.

I am:  aka Velocity3d 

Some part of me just wishes this thread could have been called "If you can't say anything nice, just fuck right off".  :)

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Quote - We already have the facility to add advisories to our posts ('language', 'nudity' etc.).

Why not two more: 'Off topic' and 'Warning'?

The 'off topic' advisory would normally be applied by the poster. It would allow for diverse discussion to happen within a thread, and yet make it easy for people to view the whole thread without those posts by modifying their forum profile to ignore off topic posts.

I'd love to see this one.

Quote - Some part of me just wishes this thread could have been called "If you can't say anything nice, just fuck right off".  :)

lmao Sam.  Some part of me agrees with some part of you.

I am:  aka Velocity3d 

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2831176

I'm not sure how well it works, but last year, a script was posted in the HTML forum that's basically an "ignore" feature for Renderosity. It works through greasemonkey in Firefox, so it's got a limited scope of use.  That said, basicwiz, good luck. I'd been asking for that feature since....oh, about 2005 :/ Good luck, my friend!

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"I'm not sure how well it works, but last year, a script was posted in the HTML forum that's basically an "ignore" feature for Renderosity. It works through greasemonkey in Firefox, so it's got a limited scope of use."

Argh, my great idea has been done already? And just as I was about to suggest it.

Yeah, that should be possible. I had something that would reformat pages on the fly, removing ads, formatting text etc. The name escapes me but it worked in Opera and there may have been one version for all browsers - you can do quite a bit of portable stuff with Javascript AFAIK. Of course, it would be better to have it built in.

As long as we're dreaming, I'd like to have (private access) to a count of the number of times I've been ignored (not by who), with perhaps the ability to reset it. The ignore count by thread would be awesome but a simple count would do. If you want something more public, some forums have thumbs up/down buttons (per post)  with a count of each. In fact that would be the most granular way of feedback. As always, a few would probably abuse it thumbing down their enemies everytime - hopefully only a tiny minority. OTOH, some may legitimately dislike a comment but not want to say anything for whatever reason. Giving the 'silent majority' a way to respond might help. Oh crap, did I just do Nixon? Forget it.

@ Sam - perhaps you could talk privately to those pissing you off (without references to hidings, punch ups etc. of course :-) 

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

It would be nice to give my personal ignore a rest with a button. I might be missing some things but sometimes renderosity reminds me of swimming in shark infested water - there are some people here that can't wait to bite someone in the ass. 

Which is really a shame because there is a wealth of information here and a lot of people that are happy to help and contribute to the understanding of Poser, 3D graphics, and other matters.

It has to be hard striking a balance between little moderation and the candyland special.

You've got to start somewhere, at sometime so I really honestly wish you much luck.  I hope you can retain your sense of humor while monitoring mostly adults, preschoolers would probably be eaisier but I think you already know that. ;-)

forum community is slower these days.  i'm reading threads i would normally skip over.

like there's some cranky aunts and uncles. lol

i think they/(us) sometimes just need someone to give a little attention, doesn't hurt to humor  a little.   They're prolly yelling "don't patronize me" 

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Not only am I all for an "ignore" feature, I would like to see a "report post/thread" feature.  

And just a heads up guys, when quoting someone who has had to use the "language" tag.... you have to tag your post as well.  

...... Kendra

Good. One more for the ignore crowd ;). As was suggested, I did employ that ignore script that was posted. Works like a dream with Scriptish. But I use Firefox and I'm sure not everyone does. An ignore feature is something only every OTHER forum I visit has ;). I'm not entirely sure why the powers that be here are so dead set against it.

Laurie

it might just be me and my rose tinted spectacles, but apart from one locked thread since this thread started, there seems to be a genuine improvement in the way rebuttals are being handled in a few current threads. it's actually quite pleasant to be posting :)

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I agree, Mystic.  As far as I can see, things are a little better.  At the moment.

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Quote - it might just be me and my rose tinted spectacles, but apart from one locked thread since this thread started, there seems to be a genuine improvement in the way rebuttals are being handled in a few current threads. it's actually quite pleasant to be posting :)

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I think folks are just ignoring the issues.

 

New here, but idea: why not OT Forum? Then people express  badly in one place?...;)

my vote would be for everybody to try to be nice.  then they wouldn't have all these problems here.  the OT forum idea has been tried, but it doesn't work well IMVHO.  they want to post here, where it gets the most attention.

Quote - New here, but idea: why not OT Forum? Then people express  badly in one place?...;)

It's been tried.  Much like communism... it's a good idea on paper.  Reality was a whole other can of worms.  :)

...... Kendra

Quote - Not only am I all for an "ignore" feature, I would like to see a "report post/thread" feature.  

And just a heads up guys, when quoting someone who has had to use the "language" tag.... you have to tag your post as well.  

+1 on both of these.

And as unpopular as my opinion might be, I'm all for showing troublemakers the door with a 3 strikes system. You get three strikes in a year, and if you exceed them, you get a timeout for the rest of the year.

I always point out zbrush central as a great 3d forum model. they have a zero tolerance policy for problem children.

While it might diminish the quantity of the online community, I think it increase the quality, and I'm all for quality vs quantity.

Oh, and another +1 for the ignore button! ;)

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.

Time to bring it back to the live feeds :)

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Seriously though, can we put a sticky on this topic and leave it floating just to nudge the odd memory or two ?

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I think the thread should have been titled, "If you can't say something nice, say something funny"?

Also, with all this talk of an ignore button... I think we forgot about Blackhearted's excellent, earlier suggestion relative to the "Llama" technique?

:biggrin:

The "Llama" technique? What's that? Spitting? I guess it's too early in the morning or I'll need to reread the thread ;).

Laurie

As I recall, he'd suggested that persistent offenders have their profile pic forcibly replaced with an image of a Llama, and then the forum software would replace the words in their posts with some sort of onomatopoeic representation of Llama sounds...

I guess such functionality could be built into the personal "ignore" button idea. So instead of ignoring someone, you could apply a personal "Llama" filter to them?

LOL :lol:

Quote - As I recall, he'd suggested that persistent offenders have their profile pic forcibly replaced with an image of a Llama, and then the forum software would replace the words in their posts with some sort of onomatopoeic representation of Llama sounds...

I guess such functionality could be built into the personal "ignore" button idea. So instead of ignoring someone, you could apply a personal "Llama" filter to them?

LOL :lol:

Ahhhh..right. But spitting wouldn't be bad either ;). For firefox, the script works well enough, tho I still think they need to build it into the site. For whatever reason, the script doesn't work ALL the time, and I can't figure out why, as I don't understand javascript. LOL. However, what's been working the best for me is just staying off the site. I hate to say that, but the deletion of posts with no warning just disgusted me that much, and I've only been back to answer the odd question now and then ;). I'd rather do the censorship myself than have someone else do it for me...heh.

Laurie

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I thought it seemed a bit quiet round here Laurie! He he

Although been a bit scarce here myself, probably... but more due to being up to my eyes with a mixture of work and man-flu last couple of weeks.

EDIT: on an aside... does anyone else experience the feeling that "forum time" seems to pass differently to "real world time"?

It would be good if they can come up with a solution that doesn't involve "disappearances" of posts without warning... certainly.

I appreciate it's a pretty tricky balance for the mods to strike, of course...

I think it's a complex life problem, there's them you get on with and there's them that irritate the hell outta ya, in the real world we have to deal with our emotions and/or tempers or finish up with a black eye or the sack lol.

For some reason, call it a manifestation of electronic messaging/impersonal contact/or plain bad manners, there's always gonna be those that can't don't or won't communicate in a manner that most of us deem acceptable or moderate.

I don't think there is an answer, apart from Get Over it and get on with what really matters, which is your health and your family.

 

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Hatemail address? I should probably get one of those....

Laurie

I think the lack of manners is apparent in places such as YouTube, which operates more like a playground for the socially violent.

Here, though, it seems to be more a matter of miscommunication. I see an awful lot of posts that look fine to me, or are maybe slightly abrupt, but which are taken sometimes as though initiating a world war. Some people are extremely sensitive, and once they're certain that they've been targeted, seem unable to back down. It's hard for the other person to apologize for being rude under these circumstances when their words have clearly been misinterpreted.

Also, people's tolerance for disagreement varies dramatically. What looks like a fight to one person, might simply be a passionate debate to someone else.

I think ordinary denizens of the internet lack face-saving techniques more than anything.

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Indeed... good points Moriador, I think.

Youtube comments so often seem to me to read like the babblings from a well of attrocified souls... just mindless, violent, esteemless and sexually disturbed gibberish.... for the most part. The manifestation of this is not always proportionate to the quality of the posted video content either.

As well as face-saving techniques, I think most people also lack the team of lawyers and PR people that I have at my disposal, vetting everything I post... in triplicate.

Oh, hang on, I forgot... I think I established that those guys are all just in my head...

Quote - Laurie, don't forget to turn the Spam filter off, you really know you've made the grade when you start to get Hatemail from advertising bots  :b_lipssealed:

Man... there's a whole three more sections of "smileys" there I'd totally not noticed!

See, if people only used the emoticons more, maybe that'd help? :rolleyes:

Quote - I think it's a complex life problem, there's them you get on with and there's them that irritate the hell outta ya, in the real world we have to deal with our emotions and/or tempers or finish up with a black eye or the sack lol.

Maybe in addition to the "ignore" button we need a "punch in face" button? LOL :lol:

Oh yeah... also I noted recently that RDNA's forum has a "reputation" icon under each post, just next to the "report post" button... you can rate the post and poster (with an approve or disapprove) and even comment on it.

Standard sort of thing really, I suppose...

Not sure how much this feature is used there...

What do folk think of this sort of feature?

It's kind of akin to the Facebook "like" button, I guess... only you can "dis" too

I don't think a Reputation button is a good idea.  Not when it can be clicked for a simple disagreement.  

...... Kendra

Many commenting systems involve a thumbs up/thumbs down for each post or comment. Sure a person could get a single thumbs down because someone else disagreed with them, but that wouldn't have to necessarily be a bad thing. Just sort of like saying to a room of people, "Raise your hand if you want jellyfish for lunch!" and getting only a few groans, or "Who wants chocolate?" and hearing a roar of cheers.

The usefulness, though, might be for those people who believe that they have a problem with only one or two other forum members. Seeing that your post got 25 thumbs down might persuade you that you're not as well supported as you think and that it's not just one person who's got an issue with your post.

I'm a believer in natural sorts of social control. In the real world, if you say something dumb or kind of offensive in the lunch room, you get feedback in the form of raised eyebrows, groans, rolled eyes. Here there are only two ways to indicate your mild disapproval -- silence, or direct confrontation. And silence only works if nobody takes pity on serial offenders.

Thumbs up and down, though, would be a gentle way to lodge disagreement or agreement, without further inflaming.

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A good point well taken but I still have my doubts about it's usefulness.  I see more complaints than good coming from it.   I would still rather see an ignore feature.  (although I really like the Llama idea)  

...... Kendra

I would be SO DOWN for the llama fature!!!!!

Quote - I don't think a Reputation button is a good idea.  Not when it can be clicked for a simple disagreement.  

I agree. Ignore's plenty...even an ignore that's not capable of telling the ignored that they're....ignored. LOL. Anonymous. One can block the people they want in complete privacy and censor themselves. Just think how nice that would be for the mods. LOL.

Laurie

I'm up for the Llamas idea, maybe we could add a shaved Llama icon too :) at least the wool would come in handy ;)

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Again, I think all these "enhancements" are unnecessary.  Just kick the arses of the ones who cause trouble.  Do it consistently and things will change.  Once this place gets known as somewhere that doesn't tolerate idiots it will get a lot better.

As for the people with fragile cut glass egoes that can't take disagreements without throwing a strop and acting like a child, grow the fuck up.  This is the internet, fer crissakes, you don't own it and you're not entitled to have your arse kissed.

There, that should do it.  :) 

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Do I turn thumbs down if some says figure X is the best and I prefer Y, of if they say that .pp2 is a pose file and I think its not, or if I agree with their statement but don't like their attitude? What if they do all three in the same post? I see problems with consistency - even if it were used in good faith and not as a weapon - which it would be. Keep it simple with an ignore button.

I agree with Sam that such gadgetry should be unnecessary. If everyone always behaved in a way that everyone else agreed with, we wouldn't need police or lawyers or a lot of other things as well. Given the average age of the membership here, saying GTFU is about like 'Just Say No' to sex, drugs and cheating on your taxes i.e. ain't gonna happen. The advantage of having moderators do the disciplining is that they, at least in theory, are a reasonably fair and neutral authority.

I like the lunchroom example but I'm not really sure how well real world behavior transfers to the internet. There may be a difference between cyberspace and being able to see and even know your peers, interpret their body language etc. It may be that all the real world propensity for cliques, mobs, vigilante justice and petty squabbles are magnified by the anonymity and the temptation to post without thinking. I'm anti-authoritarian by nature but in this environment I'm just not sure that depending on self discipline works.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

sam, mods may find that neither the iron fist nor the velvet glove is conducive to peace and happiness here.  my only suggestion is that ..... no, wait, haven't got any.  many things have been tried here, and methods must continue to evolve IMVHO.

I know I was being simplistic.  :)

I don't agree with the iron fist approach but I do think there should be a firmer approach to bad behaviour here.  Actually, I thought basicwiz had a pretty good balance.  It's just a damn shame he's had to step down.

I also know people aren't going to grow up; I just wanted to vent.  :D 

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One of my favorite quotations......

Quote - I'm anti-authoritarian by nature but in this environment I'm just not sure that depending on self discipline works.

Me too. But it wasn't self discipline I was thinking of. It was peer pressure. It may be a recognized evil among adolescents, but among adults it's what keeps us civilized most of the time. After all, it isn't fear of arrest that stops adults from shouting insults at one another in the street. It's the fear of the disapproval of their peers. Of course, some people are unaffected by that disapproval -- and they do shout in the streets. But most people succumb to it pretty quickly if the community is allowed to express it.

 

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I know. It's the collective self discipline I'm questioning. I don't insist on the notion, I'm just not sure. In real life, people have different connections, e.g. the people at lunch are people you work with every day, may socialize outside of work with, have more opportunities to help or hurt you in various ways etc. They're also more likely to share at least a broadly similar cultural background. I think that in many ways, the online experience doesn't replicate that.

If anything, the online ethos, both positive and negative is seeping into the real world. I have no idea what the long term consequences of that will be. Some would say that the migration from the farm to cities and then to surburbia lessened the sense of community and increased isolation. The internet could have a similar impact - in either direction.

I do think that peer pressure can be effective, I'm just uncertain as to how well. If nothing else, those who spend hours in front of a computer playing with make believe people may not constitute the healthiest, most rational sample of mankind :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Maybe Rendo dev staff can do a web version of ToneCheck ("Sentiment analysis engine").  A member could switch in on to filter out posting with a particularly negative tone.  If this could be done a "beer filter" would also be much apprechiated to stop the posting of material and comments after consuming too much of the inspirational spirit.

 

If there was an active tone filter and beer filter, nobody would read anything I say.

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Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

if there was a way to subscribe to a posts digest by username, you'd be top of my subscribe to list.

 

it's easy enough to scroll passed the posts by people you don't want to read, it's especially easy if you have a scrollwheel mouse.  an ignore button is superfluous, imo.

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Quote - If anything, the online ethos, both positive and negative is seeping into the real world. I have no idea what the long term consequences of that will be. Some would say that the migration from the farm to cities and then to surburbia lessened the sense of community and increased isolation. The internet could have a similar impact - in either direction. 

People tend to think of cities as being more barbaric and violent places, and yet in Canada, it turns out that violent crime is significantly higher in rural and small urban areas than in big cities. At least in some cultures, being forced to live in close quarters with other people seems to have a civilizing effect.

I would think you might see a similar effect on the internet: the more time spent conversing with others, the greater the tolerance for differences. When I consider the cultural changes just here in North America that I have personally witnessed since the WWW arrived, I do tend to think we're moving in the direction of tolerance and inclusiveness, and we're doing it at a rather astonishing speed.

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I do have a tolerance for different cultures. The plain and simple fact tho is that being an asshole is universal ;).

Laurie

Everybody has an attitude.
Be it in real life or on the net.

We are who we are, and we can not change that.

I love a HONDA. Others like a Mercedes or Ford or BMW.

That is what makes us different, and equal.

Being tolerant, friendly and helpfull is nice, up to the point where some "XYZ" starts playing with our feet.

Some backfire sooner then others.

Have a nice day, and happy Psering

Tony

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How about a point system.  Every post you get 1 point, max 5 per day.  Once you get 100 points you get $1 off a store purchase.  If a mod determines you are out of order in the forums they can DELETE some points! ^ ^

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heh. those points would be useless to me ;) there is nothing in the store I want.

Quote - heh. those points would be useless to me ;) there is nothing in the store I want.

They could give you a cash equivalent, or buy you a year's subscription to the DAZ Platinum Club. :lol: 

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Quote - > Quote - heh. those points would be useless to me ;) there is nothing in the store I want.

They could give you a cash equivalent, or buy you a year's subscription to the DAZ Platinum Club. :lol: 

HA!!!

"I do tend to think we're moving in the direction of tolerance and inclusiveness, and we're doing it at a rather astonishing speed."

Maybe it's my own cynical perspective or as they say, location, location, location. Currently, the US is sharply divided )IMO) along patrisan lines and tolerance between the two sides is in shor supply. No doubt the more extreme voices have an outsized vocal presence, but the internet has certainly magnified them. The nutcases now have a global soapbox.

In theory, enabling different people to congregate would have a positive effect. Unfortunately, modern technology also enables greater isolation. As an example, the whole country used to get their news from a few major outlets. Now people can self select to only get the 'information' that reinforces their own ideological prejudices. Neo Nazis and other assorted crazies who were once isolated can now congretate and reach a large audience. Like every other technology, it gets used for good or ill. I hope your vision wins out but my experience of human nature doesn't make me optimistic :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Steven Pinker does a nice TED talk on the subject that, I think, is worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk

He also believes that technology that increases communication tends to enable greater empathy and a higher valuation of other people.

Neo-Nazis can reach a larger audience than the original Nazis? Really? I think during WW2 and the decades following, most literate adults had a pretty decent understanding of Nazi ideology and the names of the major political figures involved in their rise to power.

Can you actually, with confidence and without looking it up, name any Neo-Nazi leaders and list off their organization's current major goals? And even if you can, would you expect your neighbor to be able to do it or the cashier at the grocery store? I rather think the Neo-Nazis -- not the dissatisfied unemployed and under educated youth who borrow their symbols as a justification for rioting and vandalism, but an actual political organization --  are in fact pretty darned obscure. They have an implied historical link to the political party they take their name from, and even so I'll bet very, very few people really care about them.

How about Baader Meinhof, Red Brigades, ETA -- I'm told these guys are actually still active. Really? Well, if they are, they are not reaching a big enough international audience to get my attention. Even with the internet. I mean, they can reach people who are actively looking for them -- but preaching to the choir doesn't really net many fresh converts.

The internet is overwhelmingly a force for cooperation and the peaceful dissemination of ideas. The nasty voices are loud and they do get our attention at times, but they are still drowned out by the rest. That's why they have to use violence to get on the news -- because their ideas aren't strong enough to hold up to the scrutiny of the masses. With the internet that scrutiny flourishes more powerfully than ever before in the history of mankind. That's why despots hate the internet.

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*"Neo-Nazis can reach a larger audience than the original Nazis? Really? I think during WW2 and the decades following, most literate adults had a pretty decent understanding of Nazi ideology and the names of the major political figures involved in their rise to power."

*In terms of resources, I'd say they're doing pretty vs. a nation state with the likes of Himmler et al at their disposal.

It's not important for the people to know the roster or the stated list of bullet points. I doubt that 95% of voters know the details of the Republican or Democratic party platforms and a disturbing number of people asked on the street apparently don't even know who the current vice president is. If you doubt the ability of a small group of people to have major consequences, look no further than current events in the Middle East. I threw out the Neo-Nazis as an extreme example. I agree that the denizens of the Stormfront website aren't the primary problem. The problem is (aided by the the ability of technology to spread/legitimize kookiness) fringe ideas spread to infect the populace. Thus, fully 45% of Americans are at least unsure as to whether the President was born in the US.

Dictators don't hate the internet, it presents them with too convenient a tool. They hate the free internet and take measures to control it.

I may be too old to believe. I hope you're right, but i've seen too many innovations come and go without changing the fundamentals of human nature to think that this one will be any different. Your points are well made though.

Ah well, Godel's (?) law has been fulfilled, Nazis have been mentioned, so I'll give it a rest and vote present.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - If you doubt the ability of a small group of people to have major consequences, look no further than current events in the Middle East...

I believe the video sat unnoticed on YouTube for at least a month until a news agency in Egypt chose to feature it in a TV broadcast. We are still, it seems, in thrall to the older technologies.

In any case, I think you're thinking of Godwin's Law, though Gödel applies with force here too. :) Out of reverence for the former, I'll leave it at that and continue to hope my global optimism prevails even in the short term.

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*"We are still, it seems, in thrall to the older technologies." *

Absolutely, though I'd say it's OS Homo that's long overdue for an update

"In any case, I think you're thinking of Godwin's Law ..."

I knew God was in there somewhere :-)

Keep the faith. As Dr. King said, "The Arc of the moral Universe Is Long But It Bends Towards Justice ."

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

what are the rules for sarcasm?  step away from the keyboard? 

mphhh mfff

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Quote - what are the rules for sarcasm?  step away from the keyboard? 

mphhh mfff

Probably ;). Which makes it really hard for me since I'm about as sarcastic as they come by nature. LOL.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - what are the rules for sarcasm?  step away from the keyboard? 

mphhh mfff

Probably ;). Which makes it really hard for me since I'm about as sarcastic as they come by nature. LOL.

Laurie

You do have a natural disadvantage, though... You're not a Brit.  We elevated sarcasm (and its refined cousin, irony) to an artform. 

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Quote - > Quote - > Quote - what are the rules for sarcasm?  step away from the keyboard? 

mphhh mfff

Probably ;). Which makes it really hard for me since I'm about as sarcastic as they come by nature. LOL.

Laurie

You do have a natural disadvantage, though... You're not a Brit.  We elevated sarcasm (and its refined cousin, irony) to an artform. 

I have British friends and am starting to watch a lot of British comedy. I'm learning...lol. Watching a lot of Russell Howard and Mock The Week...lmao. I do agree that as a people, Brits are some of the funniest creatures. That's speaking as an American, we having a more cerebral, yet similar sense of humor ;). Think high school. LOL

Laurie

Yep, obviously. :)

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"You do have a natural disadvantage, though... You're not a Brit. We elevated sarcasm (and its refined cousin, irony) to an artform. "

I wish I'd said that.........

You will Mystic, you will.........................

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Quote - That's speaking as an American, we having a more cerebral, yet similar sense of humor ;). Think high school. LOL

A perfect example of highly evolved cerebral high school humour: American Pie. It's fortunate indeed that I had a Texan friend with me to explain everything when I first saw the film or else I might have mistaken it for crudely comical sexual farce and buffoonery, rather than the witty high brow commentary on education and parenting that it really is. ;)

It was funny though.

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So, if sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, what's the highest... Benny Hill?

Or maybe it's "You've been maimed" style viewers video clips of (probably staged) domestic trampolining accidents?

My 10 month old already has a great sense of physical comedy. He laughs his head off if you drop something, including pretending to drop him, or trip on something... look surprised in a comical fashion... etc... or if the dog trumps, then looks round with a "who did that" expression on his face (yup, genuinely).

Black  Adder uses lots of analogies. 

Still hard to believe that's Hugh Laurie, (Dr. House)  "Distinctly Minty" lol

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Sarcasm definitely is not the lowest form of wit, although it was said (I forget by whom) that it's a blunt instrument, where irony is a rapier.  There's a very fine line between the two but, like many things, the vernacular use of irony is completely different from the original definition.

I have a theory about the roots of humour but it'd take the thread even more off target so I'll leave it for another time. 

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Quote - I have a theory about the roots of humour but it'd take the thread even more off target so I'll leave it for another time. 

Sounds like a great OT thread, all its own, to me... will look forward to that one

Quote - > Quote - I have a theory about the roots of humour but it'd take the thread even more off target so I'll leave it for another time. 

Sounds like a great OT thread, all its own, to me... will look forward to that one

Yep :)

Laurie

OK.  I'll start the thread later.

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I always thought that Irony meant "Like Iron" :biggrin:

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