I've read most of the threads on gold I think so if this aspect of the metal has already been spoken of and I've missed it, sorry.

I don't see the colour, scratches and reflectivity of gold as a problem and I can't be setting up an 85 node syste for it because I don't know the materiel room that well.

The problem with gold artifacts is the shadow and dirt on them, particularly old gold. I do believe (so far) that we need very little effort in the materiel foom to produce gold if we use a texture map. That does mean burned in highlights but an image produced from them will not be technically perfect. It can depend on where the high lights are placed though and the image maps for even complex artifacts can be produced using poser itself in a matter of minutes so it is not really a draw back.

The image of the complex prop illustrated is the colour I wanted it to be but I have kept the bumps low.

I suspect the 85 node reference is to me.

My gold is not 85 nodes because it's gold. It's 85 nodes because:

It deals with automatically detecting Poser Pro render GC, and produce the same realistic results whether that is on or not. This makes it produce consistent appearance in Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, Pro, Pro 2010, and Pro 2012.
It deals with the Fresnel effect with maximum accuracy, without relying on the new Fresnel_Blend node. This makes it produce consistent appearance in Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, Pro, Pro 2010, and Pro 2012.
It deals with complex IOR, which means that the reflection color is not exactly a constant. This is a subtle point, and while you can get away without it, I am promising 99.5% accuracy in my shader, so it's there.
It has options for hammering effects.
It has options for brushed effects, horizontally and vertically.
It has options to be all other metals, not just gold, so there are quite a few things in there that are because it can be other than gold. Since these parameters need to be applied in multiple nodes (reflect, diffuse, specular) it becomes necessary to do additional node wiring so they can be set only in one place. If you're willing to edit the same parameter, such as color, in five or six places, then you don't need so many nodes.
It has options for overlaying paint which may be peeling.
It has options for rust.
It has options for a patina of age.
It has options for different buffed finishes.
It makes consistent highlights both from lights and from bright objects, no matter what you do to the parameters.

etc.

I understand you want to believe a simple one is adequate. It sure is.

I can make a perfectly adequate, usable gold in three nodes. But, nobody would know how to adjust it, so it would pretty much be an adequate gold with one finish, no patina, no hammering, no inlays, no paint, wouldn't work the same in Poser 7, etc.

Sorry I don't do "adequate".

Please don't take offense, but what I notice in your image above is that absolutely nothing looks even the slightest bit realistic.

As a result, I'm forced to ask: What point are you making?

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This is adequate. Rendered in Poser Pro 2012 with GC on.

You don't need me for this.

Something like this will render OK without GC but won't look the same. Parameters will have to be changed.

If this were a much less shiny gold, it would be much less adequate without adding more nodes.

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Quote - That does mean burned in highlights but an image produced from them will not be technically perfect.

Do you really mean the mildly phrased "not be technically perfect" or have you chosen words carefully to dismiss the truth - "totally wrong".

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Quote - It can depend on where the high lights are placed though and the image maps for even complex artifacts can be produced using poser itself in a matter of minutes so it is not really a draw back.

Actually it's a rather severe drawback.

But you seem to be unaware of the correct approach here, something that is widely used in the CG industry.

You don't bake the highlights, ever.

But you can and should bake the occlusion shadows and the patina. That's what you're talking about really.

The shader should still do real reflections, but those should be modulated by a baked-in occlusion map or wear map or whatever it is you want to represent.

That map would decrease the potential for a highlight by being used to control how much any part of the prop reflects. But it would still do the actual reflecting to calculate the highlights.

With the control map in use, realism is very much increased on an old, worn or weathered object. But you don't throw out the highlights by baking them. That's just not established practice. It's established that such practice is totally inadequate.

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Here I've loaded a scratch map.

Because it is so dark, the numerical values are far below 1. So I'm using an HSV node to amplify it (Value = 5).

Then I plug that into the three places I've got that represent the potential for a highlight. This modulates the calculated highlights exactly as the real scratches and patina would do.

I don't have an occlusion map handy, but it would be used the same way.

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Left - first shader, right - second shader.

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I'm trying to find something like your medallion, but I don't have anything like that.

Is it available somewhere?

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If you google for occlusion map, dirt map, etc. you'll see how these are used all over the place.

I can't demo it because I haven't got any way to make such maps for any props I have.

But it is done exactly as I used the scratch map.

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Hello, BB :)

I appreciate you taking the time to explain. I wish I had your skill in the materiel room but it's not my way. I do think your gold is great: though I have no idea what a fresnel node does. I do know that in a complex scene shaders using 85 nodes would seriously slow down my system (I do need a new one).

I was not using sophestry: The highliights cannot be technically perfect for every scene but that is simply remedied by creating a new texture map, and that take only minutes in poser. If a picture is important enough to you then you will give it that few minutes. I will be posting the medallion into free stuff later tonight and if people want then I will produce Tx maps for a variety of lighting condition, it is that quick and easy to make them.

I only give my stuff away so if you would like to pass your gold shader I would love to use it. I think you might have said that you can't do that so I shall stick with my way of doing.

Best wishes

Lucky

I just posted a gold shader right here - and you can use that.

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luckybears, what is the rest of the scene looking like behind the camera. High quality shaders usually depend on something being there.

Bill the scratch map one looks pretty cool.

Quote - But you seem to be unaware of the correct approach here, something that is widely used in the CG industry. You don't bake the highlights, ever.

This.

The only part of the CG industry that I can think of that bakes results is the game industry and that's because you've got to have scenes that can render at 60 fps or more when there are 20 or more figures running about and the enviroment. They have to fake realism simply because there aren't many, if any, computers in existance that can do a 1080p hi def scene at 60fps. Unless you are going specifically for game graphics, you shouldn't be doing this.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Hi Winterclaw,

'Shouldn't be doing this' Oh my...lol.

To me the picture that is produced by effort is the end result and whatever we have to do to to achieve our vision is correct.

It's up to BB - share the shader or not.

Lucky :)

EDIT: but if he doesn't I will tell you how to achieve it the other way

Bagginsbill,

Thankyou for taking the time to explain this. I'm going to wrap up what you have written here to keep nearby - I have a model that needs some metal looks (copper, not gold) but with this I hope I can get going in the right direction.

Thanks again.

@ ssgbryan

I was married to a Bryan once...lololololol

My troll alarm is starting to go off.

You shouldn't bake because baking makes assuptions that won't be in your scene. It's a short cut that'll screw up your scene. Use the quick one that bill showed you and it'll do the job.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

lucky, if you can post that medallion, we can try it with some of the free shaders. the other part is the gem shader. bill may not be able to give away his new procedural at this point, but he could do a demo of it using your medallion.

Oh but BB has already posted some gemstone shaders, freely available.

To Winterclaw--- go wash out your mouth with soap and water

To miss Nacy - Done - I expect it will appear in free stuff 2pm GMT. I would love to see it wit TX removed and BB shader applied - I woud, I would really like that because I think it would be better than what I have done. Then I would like BB to give me the gold shader, and if he he doesn't then he shouldn't tell me my stuff is less than his.

I feel like I'm not being understood. Up above I gave you a gold shader. Then in a later post I pointed that out and said you can use that. Now I'm saying it for a third time - there's your gold.

What exactly is not clear?

Here it is again. Click it.

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BB, you might as well give luckybears the RGB for gold while you're at it. Make the package complete.

To BB,

I don't want a gold shader, I want THE gold shader...give it to me...my precious

15 mins later

I took a cold shower....

BB, give us the 85 or why bother?

Best wishes

luckey

or whatever my name is

> Quote - Bagginsbill, > > Thankyou for taking the time to explain this. I'm going to wrap up what you have written here to keep nearby - I have a model that needs some metal looks (copper, not gold) but with this I hope I can get going in the right direction. > > > > Thanks again.

Here's a blurry copper shader. The figure on the left is using it. The one on the right is using my full 85-node "Clean Copper Soft" shader. I show both just to let you know I'm not holding out much on you in terms of the basic copper look. The other 82 nodes are mostly about the 10 issues I wrote above.

Every metal is just these three nodes. The trick is knowing:

what color goes in reflection and specular
how high to make the values that control reflection amounts
what to put in the edge blend
how to adjust the reflection softness and the specular highlight size

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Quote - To BB,

I don't want a gold shader, I want THE gold shader...give it to me...my precious

15 mins later

I took a cold shower....

BB, give us the 85 or why bother?

Best wishes

luckey

or whatever my name is

OK You know what? You're a dumbass.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Quote - > Quote - To BB,

I don't want a gold shader, I want THE gold shader...give it to me...my precious

15 mins later

I took a cold shower....

BB, give us the 85 or why bother?

Best wishes

luckey

or whatever my name is

OK You know what? You're a dumbass.

Well, BB, you just got personal.

Right. That means I'm very much affected by what you've said. Welcome to reality.

You know what's personal? I wasted an hour explaining shit to you.

You owe me $300.

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To BB., the problem is that you just explaine what shit was, I was interested in GOLD

Sigh, another one to never respond to

People that know everything by definition can not learn anything

True wiily....sigh

eDIT: iLIKE THAT: fROM NOW ON i SHALL CALL YOU TRUE WILLY

if lucky is seeking a gold shader with features such as dirt, grime, encrustations or other surface fx, these may be possible, hence we'll await the posting of the medallion with interest. I haven't tried a ruby refractive shader, but it may be similar to bill's diamond refractive shader as shown above, on a base using one of the free gold shaders, on which I haven't tried to add blend nodes for certain fx. I didn't post an example with dispersion, as the ruby may not need that.

additionally, one might mention that, if one is experiencing stress in one's home office situation, perhaps a brief holiday is indicated, e.g. the cape, the hamptons, new hampshire, walden pond et al.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: It is not the colour of gold that is the problem