...however, there is a non-rigged version for $499 in .obj instead of Max.

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/rigged-female-3d-max/669560

Just having fun....

::::: Opera :::::

 

She's low res too, which is nice.

Sometimes Poser users forget just how good we've got it with prices of the stuff we buy...lol. And that we give up low resolution for morphability ;).

Laurie

Great character- except the elbow region- needs some WM work there-otherwise fabulous!

i agree on the elbow...i noticed that.

If we ever get a mesh that bends as nicely as that and a renderer that does skin as nicely as that, then we can poke fun at that price. Until then I get the feeling the laughs on us...

Wow... Do people actually spend that kind of money on models? Must be nice to have such disposable income.

perhaps ghonma, but V4 fully "Perfected" comes pretty close. Firefly can render pretty well, too.

I see the creator is using some of the stop staring techniques. Neat. I'm looking to implement some of that myself in the future.

 

She's a nice looking model.

Quote - Wow... Do people actually spend that kind of money on models? Must be nice to have such disposable income.

 

Most folks outside of the Poser community do, yeah. You guys don't realize how good you've got it. lol.

This is what reasonable compensation for time invested looks like.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

pretty much.

Hmmm, so if 100 people were to purchase this item that would be $100,000 minus turbosquid's commission ( fine art gallery cuts are 40% or more unless you're an extremely heavy hitter)... are you serious or just exhibiting some kind of warped perspective snobbery here? Of course, I wonder if 100 people will purchase this item, but still. I don't care if the guy worked on this model for a year, that's still a PRETTY fancy income for a 3D model. No intention of insulting anyone here, as a caveat.

Suppose he sells three? It could still be a losing proposition.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Quote - Hmmm, so if 100 people were to purchase this item that would be $100,000 minus turbosquid's commission ( fine art gallery cuts are 40% or more unless you're an extremely heavy hitter)... are you serious or just exhibiting some kind of warped perspective snobbery here? Of course, I wonder if 100 people will purchase this item, but still. I don't care if the guy worked on this model for a year, that's still a PRETTY fancy income for a 3D model. No intention of insulting anyone here, as a caveat.

 

Consider that the model can be used for anything. ANYTHING. From advertisements to crowd elements to being sculpted into a body double for an actor in a feature film. The artist would need to reap some benefit, as they'd be giving up any rights to the character and any royalties. It's more than just a model that's being sold. It's a product, it's a symbol, it's a spokesperson. The uses of a character are huge.

You're telling me you'd be fine with someone just summing up  a month of your work - 160 hours (assuming you work 8 hour days) into a $40 item that may or may not sell at all amongst all the other items on sale at the digital outlet you're using? You're fine with that? Because it was a hard pill for me to swallow.

The minimum wage here in NYC is $7.25/Hour, that's about $1,160 a month before taxes. Doesn't include the cost of the hardware and software needed to make the product (and anyone who has ever done freelance should know you charge for that stuff). So even if he were to sell just one copy of the character he'd not recoup the bare minimum he should, let alone a fair price.  Don't get me started. The Poser user base has got it good. Revel in it.

@ Teyon, Not trying to get you started...

You don't have to tell me what the minimum wage is on the east coast (where I currently reside), trust me I know all about it. The only arena where I've ever sold any of my art is in the realm of ceramic sculpture... as I was a gallery contracted artist in San Francisco and additionally was the lead tile glazer @ Heath ceramics. Did pretty well at it too, although as I've said the gallery owners get about 50% of the final sale price.

Now your field is the CG market... And from what I've gathered you're a full time professional in that field. You probaby make a pretty decent income doing something you love, an envious position for anyone working in the arts.

All of this being said, Nowhere did I suggest that I was fine with an artists efforts being exploited... I just think that $1000 a pop is rather a lot for an item which is mass-produced. And lets face it, any art object which can be copied at the push of a button is a mass production item (Otherwise, would IP piracy be an issue?).

Of course, I'm unversed in the realm of CG market forces and practices so maybe I'm speaking out of turn.

Anyway... Quite a beautiful model... Quite overpriced as an item(s) of art, in my perhaps naive opinion. Or maybe it isn't art, then? (scratches head). On that note, does anyone go into the arts with the expectations of making a haul of loot?

Incidentally, I might contradict myself by saying that poser content creators seem to be getting a paltry sum for their labors.

The amount of work put into a piece doesn't really determine the value of any given single instance of it, else we couldn't watch a move for $12 or buy a great novel for $10.

Assuming you believe the basic economic theories describing behavior in a free market, Poser content is worth exactly what people will pay for it. No more, no less. If it won't sell for more, then that might be more correctly thought of as a failure of marketing. Not enough people -- or businesses - buy Poser content to permit vendors to charge higher prices.

That said, yes, I feel lucky that I can buy a month or two of someone's work for $10. But I've always felt lucky in that regard. Every time I buy a book, I feel lucky that, thanks to the miracle of mass publishing, authors don't have to be independently wealthy or working for wealthy patrons any more.

It's a shame, though, that Poser content creators aren't selling 5,000 copies and considering that a relative failure. Surely most must do it out of love. No other explanation suffices.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Perhaps the artist that created this model figures that even if he only manages to sell 2 at least he sort of recompensed his skill and effort... who knows the pricing rationale? If so... a risky tactic.

Nice to see you back, moriador. Maybe you never left? Only catch bits and pieces here and there. You always seem to have something interesting and articulate to say.

By "You" I didn't mean you specifically (though it clearly appeared that way - sorry), I meant "you" as in the general sense. Sort of like "we" but without me included. :D 

I am considered a pro in the field but the only reason I'm able to survive making Poser content is because Smith Micro is my employer. If I were freelancing or making content on my own for a living, I wouldn't survive in NYC because the money from each sale would have to last to the next sale and if my brief time as a solo content creator is any sign, after the first week or two, you're lucky to make money on an original character. I'd end up being forced into clothing creation and if I had any hope at all of selling, it'd have to be for the more popular figures - regardless of my opinion on them. 

I don't mean to derail the thread into a lamentation on the struggles of a content creator I just think that when it comes to making products, you price to your market. Poser's crowd are in the $50 and under range from what I've seen, while the "pro" market are more likely to spend a few hundred on a fully rigged, fully morphed, character that's ready to be used in a Max/Maya/XSI/Houdini scene during crunch time - which is likely the only time characters like this would be bought because most studios have in-house artists. So yeah, very few potential sales means you have to get the most money you can from each sale if it is your only source of income. Hence the higher price point.

 

As for the character, the more I look at her, the less I like her face. I like her expressions, just ...something about her face seems odd.

 

I think it's the length of her nose in the front view. Seems long. 

@ operaguy
@ Teyon.

A figure like that, with that Polycount and Poly Distribution, and a single SubD in Poser, and in 6 months, V4 is part of the DS/Poser history.

Only things I would change?

The PoserPro mapping is the most user friendly mapping I'v ever seen.
Goto a single texture map like the PoserPro figures, but at 8192x8192 resolution.

Good find,
best regards
Have a nice W-End all.
Tony 

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

she looks like Christina Applegate to me.

if i had money like that i would be tempted.

---

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Quote - > Quote - Hmmm, so if 100 people were to purchase this item that would be $100,000 minus turbosquid's commission ( fine art gallery cuts are 40% or more unless you're an extremely heavy hitter)... are you serious or just exhibiting some kind of warped perspective snobbery here? Of course, I wonder if 100 people will purchase this item, but still. I don't care if the guy worked on this model for a year, that's still a PRETTY fancy income for a 3D model. No intention of insulting anyone here, as a caveat.

 

Consider that the model can be used for anything. ANYTHING. From advertisements to crowd elements to being sculpted into a body double for an actor in a feature film. The artist would need to reap some benefit, as they'd be giving up any rights to the character and any royalties. It's more than just a model that's being sold. It's a product, it's a symbol, it's a spokesperson. The uses of a character are huge.

You're telling me you'd be fine with someone just summing up  a month of your work - 160 hours (assuming you work 8 hour days) into a $40 item that may or may not sell at all amongst all the other items on sale at the digital outlet you're using? You're fine with that? Because it was a hard pill for me to swallow.

The minimum wage here in NYC is $7.25/Hour, that's about $1,160 a month before taxes. Doesn't include the cost of the hardware and software needed to make the product (and anyone who has ever done freelance should know you charge for that stuff). So even if he were to sell just one copy of the character he'd not recoup the bare minimum he should, let alone a fair price.  Don't get me started. The Poser user base has got it good. Revel in it.

you're in the city?
maybe we could do lunch sometime? 
i'm on long island - longguyland  lol

---

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**"Quote - "Wow... Do people actually spend that kind of money on models? Must be nice to have such disposable income."**

The model is rigged for Autodesk MAX with Mental Ray shaders.
as Teyon noted it is targeted to buyers needing a ready to human with native MAX rigging and shaders ready to animate for a film or commercial spot that has budget ranging from hundreds of thousands to millions.

This is NOT intended to be posed rendered in a still image and tossed up in a web forum gallery to seek praise from people who are doing the exact same thing with their copy of the model.

For animation /Film work you would be surprised and what the client will pay for the assets they want in their shots
for example one of my animation clients wanted a really detailed skateboard for an animation job I did for them
and on top of my Fee, paid an additional $100.
at Turbosquid just for the skateboard model in this shot.

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

I don't see the DAZ/Poser market getting to that price point. The only answer to increased volume is more users. In that regard, the more the programs cater to more serious hobbyists, the smaller the market. If DAZ and SM collaborated on a simple program for animation or games catering to the FaceBook masses maybe that would be a hit - and the content wouldn't have to be as complex. Of course, thay may be a complete delusion on my part as well :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

It is a very nice looking figure. It even comes with shoes.

I'm sure a professional couldn't have one commissioned for anything close to that...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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1. if you performed one SubD, would the topology still be ideal for Poser?

2. can anyone tell if the mesh would lend itself to excellent WM rigging in Poser?

as noted, the non-rigged version is $495 not $999.

I am not looking to bail out on V4, just having a fun diversion for the weekend.

::::: Opera :::::

The “low poly” version, not counting the clothing and hairclip is 17986 polygons. If you freeze the SubD at the lowest level possible, you multiply by four, which would give you 71944 polygons. This is in the Victoria range.

It would be something of an ordeal to rig this figure for Poser for various reasons. If you bought the non-rigged version, would it still include the morphs? The eyebrows and eyelashes employ a Max hair and fur solution. You would need to replace these. These issues aren’t worth the $500 price tag in my opinion.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

"It would be something of an ordeal to rig this figure for Poser for various reasons. If you bought the non-rigged version, would it still include the morphs? The eyebrows and eyelashes employ a Max hair and fur solution. You would need to replace these. These issues aren’t worth the $500 price tag in my opinion."

I agree

those native MAX, MAYA rigs  are always built from the beginning with the goal of a low res mesh that will subdivide accurately at render time with Catmull Clark or some variation thereof that MAX or MAYA is using
Repurposing them for poser is almost never a worthwhile endeavour IMHO.

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

I already agree with both of you. This is for Max. If V4 were not so cool, I would be tempted, but actually more tempted to get into Max than to bring this model and others like it (did you see his cyborg?) into Poser.

::::: Opera :::::

Only thing I envy on that model is how it creates those wonderful expressions. Everything can already be done with the existing figures. All you need is a nice normal and displacement map for those details.

My Renderosity Store

Teyon- I know what you mean about the nose-the tip is long. I have seen people with a nose like that-but not often. Besides-it would be absurdly easy to do a nose job with Zbrush.

I like the face, body, and details- the elbow-where the forearm and upper arm could use some WM adjustment. It looks WRONG.

**"1) if you performed one SubD, would the topology still be ideal for Poser?"**

IMHO Catmull clark subdivision,on the fly,would have been a great addition to poser9/Pro and not just for any Genesis compatibility.
working,posing,animating with a system friendly low res
meshes and switching on SubD only at render time is nice workflow.

Attached are two identical copies of the DAZ Mike 3 reduced resolution in Maxon Cinema4D click loaded  directly from my runtime Via the Interposer® plugin.

The left copy has a hyper nurbs modifier with the display division set to one and the render division set to 2
I could set the division as high as my hardware will handle and still have all the morphs functional ( as this African+smile morph demonstrates.)

I read about Snarlys SubD script... nice effort but SM needs to implement a proper CC SubD feature in poser if it Seriously wants to move forward in Figure rig handling tech IMHO.

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

nikola dechev

 

http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Artists/Nikola-Dechev

 

If you add up all the ratings submitted your get a idea.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Actually like that Milena ( @ RorrKonn's link ) model better than the one that's being discussed. Not as realistic per se, but more interesting in a luridly stylized way. Very talented guy.

Ooooh! That's a nice looking figure. Her feet don't look bad either!

One day when I'm rich maybe..... :)

 

Oh, hey, thanks, Primorge. :)

--

Surely, when there are no barriers to entry... you can run Daz Studio Pro on an old machine with a cheap video card -- for free... you will have a lot more people who cannot really afford to buy content still being vocal in the market. Perhaps this stimulates them to make content that they would otherwise buy. The next step is selling those creations...

In any case, my experience as a freelancer suggests that when you're working with a largish business they just don't seem to haggle much over anything that clearly has a set price tag, such as a $100 skateboard. Now, how much they'll pay you for your labor -- that is another story.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

If this thread stays after my DeviantArt thread was deleted for "Advertising of products or other content sites" then there's some major double standards going on here or just favoritism. No offense OP, but I'm still miffed about my thread vanishing.

Carry on.

Nice model.  Let's hope for an AFFORDABLE weight-mapped Poser Version...

no offense taken, but at that price point -- and with certain features that are good for all of us to study -- it never occured to me it was advertising.

Quote - no offense taken, but at that price point -- and with certain features that are good for all of us to study -- it never occured to me it was advertising.

Yeah. I don't think a single one of us is going to even think about buying it. I thought the OP was sarcasm, not advertising.

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

29 reviews x 999 = 28971.00.  Not a bad chunk of change so far.  I can't imagine spending that much on a model.  Wow!  :blink:

 

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

 

as wolf and others pointed out, production companies of all types would consider that a "moderate" budget item on a huge project, especially since they can repurpose the model.

Quote - no offense taken, but at that price point -- and with certain features that are good for all of us to study -- it never occured to me it was advertising.

I didn't consider my deviantart thread advertising either, all I wanted to do was connect with fellow Poser users through DA so I could get comments and critiques on my work, and the last time I checked I couldn't buy 3d content from DA either, so I'm just a bit confused is all.

Quote - > Quote - no offense taken, but at that price point -- and with certain features that are good for all of us to study -- it never occured to me it was advertising.

I didn't consider my deviantart thread advertising either, all I wanted to do was connect with fellow Poser users through DA so I could get comments and critiques on my work, and the last time I checked I couldn't buy 3d content from DA either, so I'm just a bit confused is all.

Hmmm. I guess if you link your own stuff, it's viewed differently?

Anyway, why not put a link to your DA profile in your sig? Some people here religiously check out what other forumites are doing at other sites.

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Turbo's cut is about 60% last i checked, maybe closer to 70, unless you're in their "club". so the artist still really isn't making anywhere near what the model is worth, unless he gets a LOT of sales, and at those prices, its mostly only studios that buy.

 

~Shane

Quote - If this thread stays after my DeviantArt thread was deleted for "Advertising of products or other content sites" then there's some major double standards going on here or just favoritism. No offense OP, but I'm still miffed about my thread vanishing.

Carry on.

 

DeviantArt sells prints and other merchandise of the work posted there. Maybe that's why links to them aren't taken kindly to here. Just speculating tho. 

 

~Shane

I wonder how it would go here if I lost my mind, opened a Facebook account and solicited for "friends" here?

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Quote - I wonder how it would go here if I lost my mind, opened a Facebook account and solicited for "friends" here?

LOL. I'd "friend" you. But not with my "real" account (under my real name) because I don't have a real account under my real name.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - no offense taken, but at that price point -- and with certain features that are good for all of us to study -- it never occured to me it was advertising.

I didn't consider my deviantart thread advertising either, all I wanted to do was connect with fellow Poser users through DA so I could get comments and critiques on my work, and the last time I checked I couldn't buy 3d content from DA either, so I'm just a bit confused is all.

Hmmm. I guess if you link your own stuff, it's viewed differently?

Anyway, why not put a link to your DA profile in your sig? Some people here religiously check out what other forumites are doing at other sites.

That's a really good idea but I was asked not to link to it in any of the rendo forums by the moderator who pm'd me and told me I was "advertising". :/

Maybe I'll do it anyway and see what happens. The worst is it will get removed and I'll just stop posting here, so that's not anything terrible and it can give me more time to make bad renders. :p

But I just noticed the youtube icon at the top of the page here. Yes, it links to the rendo channel but youtube can also be considered a content and advertising site so why would deviantart be off limits?

Bah, sorry for going OT.

Quote - I read about Snarlys SubD script... nice effort but SM needs to implement a proper CC SubD feature in poser if it Seriously wants to move forward in Figure rig handling tech IMHO.

They don't even need to come up with anything original since Pixar's SubDs are now open source for anyone to use:

https://github.com/PixarAnimationStudios/OpenSubdiv

 

Vicky 4 ,modeled in Modo was SubD then frozen for Poser.
V4 was made for Poser ,The meshes on turbo was not.

Even if thay put a million dollar price tag on them thay still are not better meshes then Vicky.Vicky has all the morphs ,suport ect ect.

Any one that wants can model there own charaters just like
Nikola-Dechev ,Komba3d ,Vicky in modeling app's.
Like Modo,Max,C4D,LW,Even the free app's Truespace,Blender,Hex.
They all have polygone modeling.

Even thou SubD been around sence Poser 1,Poser never put it in ther app.
I will never get that but anyways at least Posers finaly making it to the 20th centery.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

many of you quibbling about the price simply dont understand how things work outside of the poser community.

if you need a rigged med-poly female model for something - complete with displacement/normal/texture maps and shaders - there are three routes you can go:

• if you have in-house guys that can make it, then you pay their wages for x months while they develop it.
• you commission an individual/studio to make it for you. price for something like this would start at 5 figures.
• you go online and purchase something like this for $999. then you can either use it as is, give it to your in-house guys to tweak, or commission someone to tweak it. either way it will be a lot cheaper than developing everything from scratch.

and yeah, as Teyon said, the Poser community doesnt know how good they have it. products for $1-25, no inflation for 12+ years despite a massively devalued US dollar, about half the product dev time is spent on 'poserization'/poser-specific features and conforming, and customer support on top of everything.

 

---

 

as for the model itself being better than vicky - not even close. here is pretty much what i posted in the other thread:

50% of its functionality would be lost in Poser.  a lot of what you are looking at is Max rigging, meshsmooth and Mental Ray. it would look and function nothing like that in Poser.

even if you could get it to, your very first customer comment would be: 'she looks nice but i really hope you can morph away that definition'. since its a normal/disp map you cant: its baked into that exact body type you see unless you strip off the normal/disp maps - in which case its nothing special. just another vicky-esque figure with equally poor bending.

a 7500 poly model would have inferior versatility and morphing potential, and i dont really see the point when weve been happily rendering figures with 10x that vert count for a decade.

i can tell you from a morphers perspective that a simple 'quad grid' mesh like that is a real PITA to morph compared to one with topology that flows with the anatomy. not to mention noone would bother trying to morph a 7500 poly mesh: you need to sub-D it once and make it 30k polys before you tried, and youd still be hampered by the mesh topology.

ps: its somehow sickly reassuring that even a $1000 figure in a $4000 application looks like ass with its arm raised.

Blackhearted :I like your morphs ,PS, Silo, UVMapper no zBrush ?
No way would I work with a 60,000 polycount mesh in any app other then Z.

I tryed in Basic C4D 9 once ,insanity.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Yes, the upperarm-shoulder-underarm shape and bending is the acid test. That is where trouble seems most difficult to drive out, regardless of the program.

::::: Opera :::::

"50% of its functionality would be lost in Poser.  a lot of what you are looking at is Max rigging, meshsmooth and Mental Ray. it would look and function nothing like that in Poser."

Thank you for pointing this out in fact your 50% percent loss functionality estimate is probably too optimistic IMHO.

This model looks "better" than vicky4 because it is by Design leveraging the internal technology
of a Figure platform that is BETTER than Poser
$$Autodesk MAX$$ and those promo shots are rendered in a much better render engine than firefly ( mental ray)

Pull her out of that support system and you get just another
hacked out polygonal 3D mesh dumped into poser leaving most or ALL of its "special features "behind.

 We saw this clearly with the genesis "CR2 exporter"Debacle.

Poser users are better served at working on internal poser native solutions or poser specific implementations of known solutions like SubD and the new weight mapping.

Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

 

Every word that BlackHearted said !

 

And while I wouldn't mind having (full) SubD functionality in Poser, I really don't understand why so many people insist that it's the only way to model ?

SubD is wasteful because it indiscriminately subdivides everything, even parts of the mesh that actually need no subdivision at all.

Using a natively high res (Or "frozen" SubD) mesh also allows you to create more detailed morphs as in a subdivided mesh you can only morph the low les cage.

All the figures above use the same 3rd gen DAZ hi res mesh, and several of them were morphed in Wings and using Poser magnets.

Never had a problem with the polycount.

 

People seem to (or would like to ?) forget that Poser IS different from professional CGI animation.

So why do they keep on insisting that we have to do things exactly the same way the professionals do ?

BTW, the model in question has fantastic expressions but could be recreated just as easily in Poser using V3, V4 or Genesis provided one has  similar sculpting skills.

 

What these figures have as a "PLUS" above all current Poser figures is exellent poly distribution.

Something Poser figure makers can learn a lot from? And I hope they do.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - What these figures have as a "PLUS" above all current Poser figures is exellent poly distribution.

Something Poser figure makers can learn a lot from? And I hope they do.

 

have you looked at the topology of this figure?

its basically a subdivided cube with arms and legs extruded out of it.

Some programs allow for partial subdivision.  Just pointing that out in response to an earlier statement.

 

The character seems to be modeled with animation in mind, not a plethora of body morphs/muscle morphs. So it makes sense the topology would be simpler. If we'd do that for a Poser figure - as much as I'd love it - the majority of users/content creators would not be happy campers. 

note: in case anyone wants to play around while waiting for Snarly's script....

http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/

feature laden and free.

i have perfomed both decimation and subdivision with it, and I am a rank amateur in such software.

:: og ::

"Some programs allow for partial subdivision."

I didn't know this, but so far all uses of SubD I've seen in Studio and Poser were an "All or nothing" approach.

And the problem I still see is the inability to morph the subdivided mesh, so a SubD 1 mesh will be smoother than it's cage, but can not be more detailed.

Quote - note: in case anyone wants to play around while waiting for Snarly's script....

I'm not sure what you're waiting for? I thought the version I posted in the stickied thread was what people had asked for?

Free stuff @ https://poser.cobrablade.net/

Quote - > Quote - note: in case anyone wants to play around while waiting for Snarly's script....

I'm not sure what you're waiting for? I thought the version I posted in the stickied thread was what people had asked for?

 

psst whispers: i dont think most people really know what they're asking for, they're just following the herd. kind'a like politics. 

True SubD (control cage-style subD that is) won't give any better results than what animated joint centers and single axis scaling, combined with weight mapping, will give. Unless you're using really old figures, you don't need SubD in poser. At least I can't see any reason why it would be necessary for the vast majority of poser users. SR3 has all the equivalent features to acheive the results that subD will (theoretically) give. There just isn't a figure that takes advantage of them. Yet.

 

~Shane

1 You have Meshes.
2 You have Meshes that's SubD.
3 You have Meshes that's SubD with Displacement Maps.
4 You have Meshes that's SubD with Vector Displacement Maps.

The higher you go the better they look.

Topolagy can defer from 1,2,( 3 ,4 ).

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

sorry snarly, i am beind events. my apologies

"1 You have Meshes.
2 You have Meshes that's SubD.
3 You have Meshes that's SubD with Displacement Maps.
4 You have Meshes that's SubD with Vector Displacement Maps.

The higher you go the better they look."

 

Yes.

But only if you know how to create a displacement map that is good enough to compensate for the lack of mesh detail of a SubD mesh.

And so far, I perhaps have seen only two or three displacement maps being made for Poser meshes that I would call "professional quality".

 

If you have hobbyists morphing a single mesh over a wide range of bodytypes, "built in" mesh detail is just more practical than "painted on" detail.

The "built in" will work with every texture map, every shape and also won't interfer that much with vastly different rigs.

Again, those "Pro" meshes are one-offs and everything is tailor made for just that mesh.

A Poser mesh has to withstand a lot more "abuse" by users who not always know exactly what they are doing.

A muscularity morph can go from 0% to 100% with a simple dial spin and any problems can be easily fixed with a swipe of the morphbrush.

A professional grade displacement map needs a lot more know how to be customized.

The problem is not finding the most efficient or elegant or most "pro" way to do things, but finding the solution that delivers the most useability to the average dial spinning Poser user.

 

 

Quote - sorry snarly, i am beind events. my apologies

No worries :-)

I'm so addled these days I thought I'd forgotten something ... again!

And just so you know, it's been updated to v1.3.0 now :-D

Free stuff @ https://poser.cobrablade.net/

with regard to the troublesome area on any human model in any platform, the elbowbend-upperarm-shoulder-underarm area...

http://jrdonohue.com/v4arm.mp4

... my opinion is that V4 need not apologize for a thing.

::::: Opera :::::

Never not once in 10+ years have I ever made a SubD Characters topolagy that I like.
It's a insane unsolvable puzzle to model a character 100% quads.
Your puting a Quad pig in a Tri hole ,Sure that's going to work well.
To make the rule model with only quads is the galactic joke of all times in CGI.

If you want to stay with generation 3 unimesh & bumps.
Thats kool as long as you having fun and making art ,that's what it's all about.

Don't think you can chain me down to your views.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Does Poser companys deserve the leaps and bonds award for advancements in CGI.
What orginal tools has Poser companys givin us ?
What tools have Poser companys not incorperated in to Poser ?

Who makes Poser companys or users ?

Who gave us INJ
Who gave us REM
Who gave us unimesh.
Who gave us Vicky
My bad ,My bad I forgot we are hating DAZ cause ... ah
... wait ... Frack it since when does Hate need a bloody reason.
Who gave us Morphs
Who gave us SubD
Who gave us Displacement Maps

 

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

 

"To make the rule model with only quads is the galactic joke of all times in CGI."

I never said otherwise ?!

On the contrary, I completely agree.

BTW, the 3rd Gen DAZ mesh does have lots of tris as it was created before all quads and SubD became the latest craze.

And it still works perfectly well in Poser.

 

:-)

My bad
"the rule model with only quads" is a general rule acrose all the app's Max ,Maya ,LW ,C4D ,Blender ect ect all the app's follow the quad rule cause there SubD will convert Tri's to quads.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

The 3rd Gen DAZ mesh was modeled in LW.
Around LW 6,7 time ,I think.
The 3rd Gen DAZ mesh was relesead around Poser 3,4 ,I think.
It's a fine mesh made for Poser.

Around Poser 4 days Max had a plug called Charater studio.
It was Poser Charters in Charater studio.

Even back then Max had the model 100% quad rule.cause Max had SubD.

V4 was modeled in Modo.She is 100% quads.So she follows the quad rule.
V4 is a fine mesh made mostly for Poser and also kinda for the poser pro app's.
except her polycount was high.

V5 was modeled in Modo initially for all the app's.

 

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

oh forgot to say in the Poser 4 days don't remember turbo being around.

there was another well known site ,don't remember the sites name ,it had a black background.

Anyways there where few characters on the site none any where close as good as Vicky or even Possetta.

Since then we have developed a topolagy flow for humans.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Lol, you just called Posette "Possetta", that's spanish for flush toilet... hahaha

It's a insane unsolvable puzzle to model a character 100% quads.

For V4, they could have created the SudD base in Modo using nGons and tris if they wanted. When you freeze the SubD it automatically becomes quads.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Quote - It's a insane unsolvable puzzle to model a character 100% quads.

For V4, they could have created the SudD base in Modo using nGons and tris if they wanted. When you freeze the SubD it automatically becomes quads.

Yes that's how we model it's the only way I know to get a 100% quad human.
But your still puting a quad pig in a tri hole.
when you see a vertice with only 3 lines to it.it's a quad tri.
when you see a vertice with 5 lines to it.it's a quad ngone.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Yes that's how we model it's the only way I know to get a 100% quad human.

*You might explore the retopology options as well.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

I do not use NGons and avoid tris polys 98% of the time. I don't know how other people model but I seem to model differently.

I never use Ngons and avoid tris as well. This  is standard workflow.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Might as well post therm here too.

Poser4 Lo Res figures using Snarly's script at 1X.
Same object files, just different textures.

Click to enlarge

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

I try to model 100% quads
Poly count 3964 , 218 nGones n Tri's
18 % nGones n Tri's.
I'm not very good at it.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - I try to model 100% quads
Poly count 3964 , 218 nGones n Tri's
18 % nGones n Tri's.
I'm not very good at it.

 

You'll get better if you keep at it, like anything else. 

All quads is always possible, it just takes planning. If you're block modeling the traditional way, just stick to very basic forms and only add edge loops when you absolutely need them. Use diamonds and 5-point stars to redirect edgeflow. 

At very low res - say, under 2K - you can "cheat" in some areas by using  tris, as they will become quads when subdivided. 

The model I've been working on is 33,890K right now, 100% quads. It is possible.

If you want to create a new thread and post screen shots of your model, I'll look at your topology and might be able to show you where you can make changes to reduce the ngons and tris.

 

~Shane

Quote - > Quote - I try to model 100% quads

Poly count 3964 , 218 nGones n Tri's
18 % nGones n Tri's.
I'm not very good at it.

 

You'll get better if you keep at it, like anything else. 

All quads is always possible, it just takes planning. If you're block modeling the traditional way, just stick to very basic forms and only add edge loops when you absolutely need them. Use diamonds and 5-point stars to redirect edgeflow. 

At very low res - say, under 2K - you can "cheat" in some areas by using  tris, as they will become quads when subdivided. 

The model I've been working on is 33,890K right now, 100% quads. It is possible.

If you want to create a new thread and post screen shots of your model, I'll look at your topology and might be able to show you where you can make changes to reduce the ngons and tris.

 

~Shane

Thanks for the offer ,most kind.
I know your school only accepts 99.99% perfection.
If I get 70% I'm good, if I get 80% I'm ecstatic.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Can you imagin rigging these characters

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?170535-The-Character-Art-of-Darksiders-II-%28new-images-pg-5-6-7%29

Or Mapping these

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?170332-Meats-Meier-Sketchbook

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

I've been out of school for a while now.

And they weren't that bad. They graded on a 96% A-curve. 

The first thread you linked are game characters. They're low poly tri meshes. Most of what you're seeing is converted to displacement. If you worked in a game studio you'd be rigging things like that on a regular basis. Well, if you're a rigger that is.

Meats Meier is an amazing artist, and very respected in the pro world. He's worked on  films in the past, but I think he mostly does sculpture. 

 

~Shane

Quote - I've been out of school for a while now.

And they weren't that bad. They graded on a 96% A-curve. 

The first thread you linked are game characters. They're low poly tri meshes. Most of what you're seeing is converted to displacement. If you worked in a game studio you'd be rigging things like that on a regular basis. Well, if you're a rigger that is.

Meats Meier is an amazing artist, and very respected in the pro world. He's worked on  films in the past, but I think he mostly does sculpture. 

 

~Shane

No doubt there killer Artist.

If we could get that in Poser ,D/S .It be wicked kool.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance