Winterclaw opened this issue on Sep 30, 2012 · 29 posts
Winterclaw posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 3:44 PM
Has anyone else noticed that the mat room is really laggy? I make one little change and my cursor become a circle and the preview screen goes gray for a minute. Is there anything that can be done about it?
WARK!
Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.
(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)
bagginsbill posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 3:57 PM
And - what SR? What OS (I see 64 vista but let's make sure)? OpenGL or SreeD? If OpenGL, what card and driver?
Otherwise, I have seen nothing like this since early versions.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
LaurieA posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 4:17 PM
Yeah, mine has too. I assumed it was cause I was using shaders with so many nodes. It's definitely slower then.
Oh, Nvidia GT240
Laurie
CaptainMARC posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 4:20 PM
It can get "laggy" if I have a complicated scene: six figures, thirty buildings, twelve cars, that kind of thing.
But then the material room being a bit slow is the least of my problems hahahaha.
Winterclaw posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 4:39 PM
SR3. I think I'm using openGL, but I'm in the middle of a render and can't tell.
The scene was vicky, a sword, an outfit, some hair, a tree, and a one sided square.
My card is a geforce 275. Driver is 9.18.0013.0479 (DLed the one that came out right after GW2 was released).
WARK!
Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.
(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)
3anson posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 4:59 PM
yup, have noticed some laggyiness in the mat room of PP2012 ( but not in the vanilla or SR1/SR2 versions) from SR2.1 up.
W7 64bit , Athlon 2 Quad, 8Gb DDR3 ram, nvidia GeForce GT 430 ( 1Gb of ram onboard)
RedPhantom posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 5:04 PM Online Now! Site Admin
This is a way out there suggestion but try hiding the tree. I have a tree or 2 that bog down scenes worse than anything else in my runtime.
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bagginsbill posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 5:06 PM
Hopefully the video cards mean something to some people. I have a Radeon HD 5770 and it is just fine - I have no idea if it is new/older better/worse than yours.
I would suggest verifying without hardware preview, i.e. SreeD. If editing in the mat room is no longer laggy, then there is some unfortunate interaction with the video driver/hardware.
Now - just to be clear, if I have a material with 8 or more of those noise nodes (fBm, Noise, FractalSum, etc.) then it is laggy as all hell in updating. That's just because the tech to do the preview is probably lame.
All that stuff was developed long ago and bought for Poser 5. I don't think it has had an overhaul, ever.
I will say it again and everybody should repeat - I have 8 CPU arithmetic cores. Any program that only uses 1, like it's 1999, is soon (6 years or less) going to be removed from my computer - period. When I have 64 cores, anything that can't use them will be in the trash.
I already have hundreds of processers in my cheap graphics card, capable of 520 GFLOPS. If, in 6 or so years, I am sporting several thousand processers and can do 8 TFLOPS and the software I use is stuck using about 1/100th of that, it's going in the trash.
I expect real-time material preview, including reflections, in 5 years. SM?
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
bagginsbill posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 5:09 PM
I'm hoping I live long enough to own 1 million CPU cores.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
CaptainMARC posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 5:22 PM
Try doing a cloth or hair simulation. It'll chug along for an hour or so using hardly any CPU or RAM.
Great bit of coding that.
piccolo_909 posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 5:22 PM
bagginsbill posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 5:26 PM
There is little to no value in IBL resolution above 512. Why would you do that? It consumes resources like mad for no benefit.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
bagginsbill posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 5:27 PM
Are you familiar with the "Diffuse Convolution" algorithm? If not, then I understand why you have no idea that such resolutions are evil.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
bagginsbill posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 5:31 PM
Paul Debevec is the Godfather of environment mapping techniques, such as IBL.
He wrote:
Quote - It may be good to downsample the environment image first since the convolution calculations can take quite a long time.
The purpose of that parameter is for you to DOWNsample your image, not keep it high res or, shudder, to up sample it.
http://ict.debevec.org/~debevec/HDRShop/tutorial/tutorial6.html
Quote - Resize the image. Click on Image in the menu bar, then Size from the Image menu then Half Size from the Size menu. Repeat this several times until the image has been resized to a point where HDRshop can calculate the convolution in a reasonable amount if time. In this example the image has been resized to 128x64 and the convolution calculation takes about 96 seconds.
Things are faster now, but he was dealing with 96 seconds!!!!
Most of the pros use 128 or 256 pixel IBL.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
bagginsbill posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 5:35 PM
When you put in an environment like this:
The diffuse convolution of it (what is used as the information for the diffuse IBL lighting calculations) looks like this:
Why do you need a high-res version of that?
Back when I used IBL (I almost never do now - I use IDL and my EnvSphere) for global/ambient light, I often made it 32 pixels and it was great.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
piccolo_909 posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 5:37 PM
I've only been using poser for a short while, so i got no idea what the "Diffuse Convolution" is. But generally, a higher pixel IBL was lagging up the material room for me. Turning it down to 100 got rid of the lag, even at 500 there was noticeable lag. But i'll be sure to keep it lower now that i learned high pixels is useless ;)
vilters posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 5:58 PM
Oh, Grr, I so hope they get rid of IBL by PP2025. :-)
Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7,
P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game
Dev
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WandW posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 7:05 PM
Quote - Oh, Grr, I so hope they get rid of IBL by PP2025. :-)
"In the year 2025
If Cupa 's still alive
If Baggins can survive
They may find
In PoserPro 2025..." :lol:
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Winterclaw posted Sun, 30 September 2012 at 8:57 PM
I am using OpenGL. I'll try Sreed. Are there any pros and cons to using one over the other?
My card
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-275/specifications
your card
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5770/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5770-overview.aspx#2
WARK!
Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.
(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)
kalrua posted Tue, 02 October 2012 at 9:29 AM
Quote - Paul Debevec is the Godfather of environment mapping techniques, such as IBL.
He wrote:
Quote - It may be good to downsample the environment image first since the convolution calculations can take quite a long time.
The purpose of that parameter is for you to DOWNsample your image, not keep it high res or, shudder, to up sample it.
http://ict.debevec.org/~debevec/HDRShop/tutorial/tutorial6.html
Quote - Resize the image. Click on Image in the menu bar, then Size from the Image menu then Half Size from the Size menu. Repeat this several times until the image has been resized to a point where HDRshop can calculate the convolution in a reasonable amount if time. In this example the image has been resized to 128x64 and the convolution calculation takes about 96 seconds.
Things are faster now, but he was dealing with 96 seconds!!!!
Most of the pros use 128 or 256 pixel IBL.
http://www.hdrlabs.com/picturenaut/plugins.html
"
Diffuse SH
It's a plug-in which calculates diffuse convolution of an HDRI (panoramic format). It speeds-up complexity to O(n) against O(n^2) of the naive algorithm implemented in HDR Shop 1.0.3. The algorithm is based on the paper "An Efficient Representation for Irradiance Environment Maps" by Ravi Ramamoorthi and Pat Hanrahan of Siggraph 2001. In the example the computational time is less than a second with an 512x256 HDRI, against the six hours expected using the naive algorithm. This plugin creates a ASCII file with the coefficients of Spherical Harmonics calculated"
monkeycloud posted Tue, 02 October 2012 at 10:23 AM
Quote - I'm hoping I live long enough to own 1 million CPU cores.
He he. Sounds good.
I'm hoping I live long enough to be running an infinite non-number of quantum computing cores... or however these end up being structured 
If I don't live long enough, maybe I can ask in my will for my grandchildren to send me one back in time...
monkeycloud posted Tue, 02 October 2012 at 10:28 AM
Quote - Try doing a cloth or hair simulation. It'll chug along for an hour or so using hardly any CPU or RAM.
Great bit of coding that.
I'm guessing these are still single-threaded processes, at present?
monkeycloud posted Tue, 02 October 2012 at 10:28 AM
Quote - > Quote - Oh, Grr, I so hope they get rid of IBL by PP2025. :-)
"In the year 2025
If Cupa 's still alive
If Baggins can survive
They may find
In PoserPro 2025..." :lol:
ROFLMAO!
LaurieA posted Tue, 02 October 2012 at 11:02 AM
Quote - > Quote - Oh, Grr, I so hope they get rid of IBL by PP2025. :-)
"In the year 2025
If Cupa 's still alive
If Baggins can survive
They may find
In PoserPro 2025...
Poser figures, now alive
bending like the real thing
every Poser users dream...
Please everyone, continue...lol. You know ya wanna...
Laurie
Winterclaw posted Mon, 19 November 2012 at 9:31 AM
Okay, new PC same problem in both sreed and open GL. Windows 7 64 bit, i7 core, 16 gigs ram, 660 Ti gfx card latest drivers, I need to update to SR3.1 but I see nothing in the change log mentioning mat room preformance.
So aside from the SR update, I'm going to assume one of two things:
1. It's a preference setting I can correct
2. The mat room is bugged and I can't correct it.
So are there any settings I can tweak which can speed up mat room interactions?
WARK!
Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.
(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)
wimvdb posted Mon, 19 November 2012 at 10:13 AM
Are you still getting a minute delay in screen updating?
Is there anything specific in the material room which we can try? (nodes or some kind of user action which shows it?)
If I do a copy/paste of a bb material setting (63 nodes) it takes less than a second. Changing parameters in this setup takes less than a second as well
Or are your scenes very complex?
Male_M3dia posted Mon, 19 November 2012 at 11:27 AM
I had this issue for most of the day yesterday where it was ridiculously laggy between updates. I would literally tweak a setting and watch youtube videos on another machine while waiting for the refresh to be done. I saw that I had some textures using absolute paths so I had to redo them and when I started over it was much better, but it's still laggier than I like (about 1-2 seconds) considering I'm running a 6-core processor @3.4ghz, Nvidia 580 gtx 3gb, and 32GB of RAM.
Only item in the scene is one character that I'm doing materials on.
moogal posted Mon, 19 November 2012 at 6:12 PM
Quote - I'm hoping I live long enough to own 1 million CPU cores.
I never dreamed as a child I'd someday casually carry 5 color displays (phone, ipod, 3DS) simultaneously in my pockets.
Winterclaw posted Mon, 19 November 2012 at 6:33 PM
Quote - Or are your scenes very complex?
No, even with a few nodes this problem pops up. As for specifics, it's most noticable with the dials on the nodes you can add (like math node). But maybe I'm noticing those because I'm using them a lot.
WARK!
Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.
(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)