LaurieA opened this issue on Oct 26, 2012 · 85 posts
LaurieA posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 9:10 AM
Resume render
Revamped material room based on accurate visual preview with sliders with numeric input and editable hidden node feature (a la Vue) and better functions (and editable functions) such as perlin noise, other diffuse models, etc. with ability to adjust by altitude (maybe some editable profiles). Perhaps some dispersion functions for things like glass and water. Also, the ability NOT to accidentally create garbage - smart nodes and materials.
Vastly improved emitter based lighting - IES files capable. What Poser 9/2012 provided was nice, but still needs improvement.
Material presets (editable with additional options) like glass, metal, Water, etc (a la Luxrender and others) based on real world models.
Improved hair room with better controls and finer looking hair (if you build it, they will come)
Improved dynamic cloth, perhaps cloth with thickness (Yes, yes, yes! Yes?)
Vector normal map support and improved tangent normal map support
*Particle system (not crucial, but nice)
That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure I'll have more ;).
One more thing: 64 bit support across the board in all versions. In this day and age, 64 bit support isn't really a "pro" feature, but a necessity. We've had it now for years. Time to fully support it. Your competitor does - even for it's previous base version ;). Just sayin'...lol.
Laurie
TooL_PePe posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 9:39 AM
I'm all for every one of those things! Especially the hair room! With all the improvements they've done with adding realism components such as SSS and IDL, they still have every image produced from us handycapped by fake looking hair. Really irks me.
basicwiz posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 9:50 AM
While some of your suggestions are over my head, things like the changes to the material room are, imho, critical.
Ever since I've been using Poser, the material room has been this arcane place where I have found I can, very quickly, very easily, make a complete and total mess of anything I'm working on. Were it not for people like BB and Snarley and Phil, I'd never venture in there (and my renders would be nowhere as good as they are.) I think the ability of the dweebs like me to use this resourse should be a number one priority. The interface ideas you put forward make complete sense.
Can they be implemented? "Oh, Cooper-r-r-r-r-r-r-r??????"
The hair room would be great if the hair controls actually worked without hoop jumping and the hair was about three times as fine as it currently is. I've spent A LOT of time in there, and while it's a great idea, it is not there yet.
ANY improvement to the cloth room is an advantage. I have beem moving away from conforming clothing for several years. If the last fussiness of the cloth room could be removed, I'd use it to create normal looking clothing for all my characters!
For me, these are the three things you mention that would be of the most use to the most people, and I'm going to hope SM hears us.
Did you post this to SM or do you think Coop will see it here and pass it along?
Janl posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 9:51 AM
I am hoping the new plugin technology in Poser will allow much more than has been possible in the past. My wishlist would include an improved dynamic cloth room and material room. It would be nice if the material room gave a more accurate preview of what each node does when linking them up. :)
LaurieA posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 10:03 AM
I don't want to have to link nodes anymore (but I think the option should still be there for the geekier among us...lol). Vue overlays the node system with a visual preview (and a very good one - independent of the lights in the scene) and a slider/function/profile based system that I think EVERYONE would better understand than what we have now. I think Vue's material editor is extremely easy to understand, even for the novice. As it is now, the material room is way above the normal user's head and if it weren't for I'd say less than 5 ppl on this site, no one would have a clue (which is very, very sad and should tell SM something).
The hair room is like wrestling a very large bear (or at least a very strong and irksome monkey) and is something I won't even touch right now (tho I'd like to).
Oh, and Basicwiz? All dispersion does is tell the material how to change colors as it moves thru a material, sort of like a diamond does (all the blues, pinks, etc show up according to depth and angle of the light and the surface). The presets I mention (like those Luxrender uses) are simply a base material set up with all the real world properties, like metals. You then do what you want with the base metal material, rather than set the entire thing up from scratch, such as adjusting roughness (the amt of shininess and reflection and how big or how small), color, bump, and so on.
As for 64 bit...it's been around since we've had XP for crying out loud. Nearly every program comes in 32 bit (if you need it) and 64 bit (Blender, which is FREE comes to mind). How many of us on this site don't have a 64 bit rig and have for years now? I know I have ;). To me, 64 bit should not have ever been a "pro" features. It's rather archaic now to supply only 32 bit to vanilla Poser users.
Laurie
3doutlaw posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 10:04 AM
If no 64 bit...come release of p10/2013, I will be looking for a old, cheap release of P2012, and call that my next year upgrade (from P9). That's the current plan.
Ridley5 posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 10:12 AM
Instancing, so Poser users can enjoy their own version of "ecosystems" like Vue users. A wishlist item for me would be Stonemason's "Suburbs/Neighborhood" set, which has been in a holding pattern for a few years, to be released with realistic grass lawns, trees, etc.
I'd also like to see thicker dynamic cloth for simulations.
Janl posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 10:14 AM
Quote - I don't want to have to link nodes anymore (but I think the option should still be there for the geekier among us...lol).
We could have something like the basic and advanced material room but the basic one being more capable.
I would like it if the material room got rid of the necessity to be a mathematician or physicist. Afterall we are, or trying to be, artists! lol
RedPhantom posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 10:15 AM Site Admin
Quote - Resume render
Revamped material room based on accurate visual preview with sliders with numeric input and editable hidden node feature (a la Vue) and better functions (and editable functions) such as perlin noise, other diffuse models, etc. with ability to adjust by altitude (maybe some editable profiles). Perhaps some dispersion functions for things like glass and water. Also, the ability NOT to accidentally create garbage - smart nodes and materials.
Vastly improved emitter based lighting - IES files capable. What Poser 9/2012 provided was nice, but still needs improvement.
Material presets (editable with additional options) like glass, metal, Water, etc (a la Luxrender and others) based on real world models.
Improved hair room with better controls and finer looking hair (if you build it, they will come)
Improved dynamic cloth, perhaps cloth with thickness (Yes, yes, yes! Yes?)
Vector normal map support and improved tangent normal map support
*Particle system (not crucial, but nice)
That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure I'll have more ;).
One more thing: 64 bit support across the board in all versions. In this day and age, 64 bit support isn't really a "pro" feature, but a necessity. We've had it now for years. Time to fully support it. Your competitor does - even for it's previous base version ;). Just sayin'...lol.
Laurie
I'll second everything there. I don't fully understand everything she said about the material room but I agree there has got to be an easier way for us to get realistic looking shaders.
A way to "comb" the hair into place would be nice. Start at the top and style it down to the end. (kinda like we do with our hair) And have it react better to other objects it the scene while draping.
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TooL_PePe posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 10:44 AM
Another good thing I would love, is the ability to 'Pause' and 'Resume' things. Like simulations and renders.
LaurieA posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 10:48 AM
Quote - Another good thing I would love, is the ability to 'Pause' and 'Resume' things. Like simulations and renders.
Resume render was first on my list. LOL But pausing and resuming a simulation would be awesome as well.
Laurie
WandW posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 11:32 AM
I'd like the scroll wheel to scroll the parameter list when the mouse is over it, instead of zooming the camera.
I'd also like an undo log that, if Poser crashed, could be played back from the last save to reconstruct the scene.
A less cumbersome way to turn figure IK on/off.
I like the idea of material presets, but have them be able to be studied and modified, unlike the current preset nodes, which are black-boxes...
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vilters posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 11:34 AM
My PC talks to me
My GPS talks to me
**My Cell Phone talks to me
**
What I want is "talking" figures. Type a text, and the figures talk. Should be doable by PP-10. Digital voices have come a long way.
=> Detailed proposal went to SM some time ago.
See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W52TL9Akv4.
=> 3 good examples of about 10 minutes each.
Yes, a user friendy hair an cloth room. => Both are from Poser 5...
Certainly a end user controllable sort of "shrink to fit"in the cloth room.
Yes, error free and WELDED figures object files.
BB's env sphere and one Infinite light as default lights.
Get rid of some old Poser left-overs.
Materail room. => Make it impossible to connect anything into anything.
Only allow connections that make sense. => Some sort of expandable Flow-Chart with controllable options. But only with the nodes that continue to make sense.
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Khai-J-Bach posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 12:18 PM
maybe this could be done with the new plugins structure.. but
calling a modeling app from inside Poser. not having it built in no, but being able to pass a figure out to a modeler, work on it, then bring it plus any added on models (such as clothes) back into the workspace near seamlessly... instead of mucking around with importing and hoping it works.. very much I suppose like the link to zbrush, but expanded for modelers like Wings, Blender, etc.
LaurieA posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 1:11 PM
Oops. One more thing. It's time to ditch the old rigging and figure grouping. Go all WM and just one welded figure. If people wanna use their 13 year old content they can buy the previous version that will support it. This crap with versions having to be compatible with content that most of us haven't used in years is what's stifling Poser. Time to get with the times and innovate a bit ;). I'm not at all saying be like Daz. But I have to admit Daz has some good ideas and are willing to innovate, even at the cost of the old figures not being backwards compatible. I like that. It's moving forward, rather than running in place. Sometimes I feel that using Poser is like talking to someone miles away with two cans a string, long after the telephone has been invented.
Fireflaw needs an overhaul too. Why do we need three separate render passes when other programs can do it all at once? Really, most of Poser is a dinosaur. LOL.
Laurie
DustRider posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 1:34 PM
I'll second all of the above ..... plus:
Caustics!!! Sure, we'll finally get caustics capability with Reality 3 for Poser - but every other software that can use/consume Poser content can do caustics with their internal renderer except for Poser. Caustics aren't even the "new cool thing", it's been available in other renderers for a loooong time.
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Richard60 posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 1:39 PM
My wish would be on the animation layers screen the ability to add just the items I want to that layer, instead of having every item present. This way if I have four figures in a scene then I could make a layer for each figure (or part of a figure like the hands) and not worry if I make a change to a light position or camera angle that it will be placed on the current layer and not on the layer for that item. It can take some time to go through all the layers to find a out of place key frame. Also a lock to prevent a layer from being changed.
As for the material room you might want to ask for some (a lot) of presets, however I would not want a system to try and second guess what I want it to do. Having a system that prevents you from making dumb mistakes is also a system that will not let you be creative. for instance if the shader is going to be applied to the skin a smart shader would say skin can be Tanish/Blackish/Yellowish but not Blueish/Greenish. Which would be great if you were doing a human but not so great if you were doing the Wicked Witch of the West (who is green).
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LaurieA posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 1:39 PM
Oh, while they're at overhauling the rigging and figures they can remove the ridiculously small scaling ;).
Quote - however I would not want a system to try and second guess what I want it to do. Having a system that prevents you from making dumb mistakes is also a system that will not let you be creative. for instance if the shader is going to be applied to the skin a smart shader would say skin can be Tanish/Blackish/Yellowish but not Blueish/Greenish. Which would be great if you were doing a human but not so great if you were doing the Wicked Witch of the West (who is green).
That's actually not even close to what I was suggesting. A base metal with all properties but with the ability to change color, shine, reflections, IOR, bump, displacement, etc. see Vue's presets Actually Vue has many metal presets, depending on what you wanna do. And I never at all considered it cheating.
From the Luxrender wiki:
Metal 2 in an updated version of the original metal material. It supports rendering metals using measured data as well as custom colors or textures. See LuxRender Materials Metal2 Shiny metal is a generic polished metal. See LuxRender Materials ShinyMetal Mirror is the Shiny Metal material without the polish coat, it's a quick shortcut for making mirrors. See LuxRender Materials Mirror
Laurie
willyb53 posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 1:40 PM
Volumetric objects!
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Blackhearted posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 2:00 PM
Firefly and shadernodes are fine. even now theyre not even being used to 1/4 their potential by everyone but a small handful of devoted shader-gurus. more accurate rendering, or renderer improvements, would be a waste of dev 'focus' at this time when there are far more pressing issues to address. right now there are 3rd party renderers out there as options for the handful of people who are limited by the constraints of the firefly renderer.
the main problem that is holding back poser progress right now is clothing. the entire clothing system in poser is halfass bullshit. conforming is a fluke that was discovered by accident. all CR2 editing is a HACK. you basically have very patient content creators hunched over their comps editing text files and creating 50 JCMs in a piece of clothing just to have the end result still look nothing like what real clothing should look like. open your eyes to the fact that every single clothing utility and technique out there is nothing but an elaborate workaround/hack to a fundamentally flawed clothing system in Poser.
Poser progress itself is held back because any time someone releases a new figure, the moment the poser community realizes that it cannot easily use the tens of gigs of legacy V4 content that they are all tethered to they abandon it and go back to vicky.
the cloth room as it is is not the solution. the vast majority of the poser market are hobbyists and casual users that wont devote weeks to learning the ins and outs of a cloth room, nor should people be forced to set up and run 30 frame 'simulations' just to get clothing to fit a pose.
this is how clothing SHOULD work in Poser:
you load your base figure
you load your clothing item. if it has a fit for the base figure, great. if not you can use the morphing tool right inside poser to quickly morph it closer.
you select the clothing and hit a big user friendly 'Cloth' button. a prompt pops up and asks you to select the target figure, you select Figure 1.
from this point on the clothing follows the movement of the target figure. pokethrough is handled automatically with collision detection.
this is all that a basic user should need to do to get a figure clothed. ADVANCED users/vendors can then further customize and tweak the dynamic properties of the clothing to improve it, and share these tweaks/settings in some distributable format.
this is what Poser NEEDS for progress to continue. people who lose sight of what Poser is made for will ask for things like 'accurate caustics' in Firefly, 'particle generation' or some such silly thing. Poser is designed for figure posing/animation and the fact is that its 2013 and there are several things that have not changed or improved in over a dozen years: Poser clothing is still a hack that results in substandard results, and we are still using transmapped hair that requires massive postwork and doesnt even look remotely real.
do a Google search for 'Nvidia Hair Demo'. look at the screencaps. look at the videos. that has been possible in realtime on Nvidia cards at >30-60 frames per second since 2009. i would give my left nut for hair like that in Poser, even if it takes me 60 minutes to render just ONE FRAME. transmapped hair is another joke that should have been abandoned long ago, but the hair room is again a mess - even experienced users devoting months to learn it are getting less than impressive results with it. it needs to be overhauled and made much more streamlined and user friendly.
3/4 of the hair on the market right now looks no better than Kozaburo's freebie hairs from 2000. now i dont mean to insult hair modelers - they are doing their best with what they have. NOONE except game modelers limited by low-poly constraints use transmapped hair anymore -- yet here we are trying to create cinematic quality stills with it.
Khai-J-Bach posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 2:07 PM
oh an updated OBJ importer (fix the smudge glitch)... and Collada import for all versions Pro or Standard. (oh I can export in DAE... whats the point if you can't IMPORT ?) with options like scaling and rotation...would actrually be of use then not just a toy....
MistyLaraCarrara posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 2:17 PM
setup room:
merge figure option. an option to work on one or two bone groups at a time without having to BONE all in one go.
i would luv some joint type presets to add between bones via the library. abducting joint, etc.
ability to save progress in setup room without having to leave the room.
library:
an option for actual size thumbnails. like p7 has.
hair room:
fur, a better way? curves vs segments?
http://renderman.pixar.com/products/whats_renderman/4.html
material room:
i would luv a text node, to easily add text to a bubble or cube.
misc:
a morph tool that's not a brush. ability to select verts, not necessarily next to each other, and move them in x, y, z with a parameter dial.
collision sound effects for exporting with animations, like foot steps. clap sounds.
a few royalty free background muzaks for poser animations.
export to animated .gif option.
ability to specify the appdata path to store preferences between sr's separately.
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LaurieA posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 2:21 PM
I have to say Lara, I don't have a need for any one of your suggestions. LOL. In fact, I'd like bones to be a thing of the past, replaced by one mesh figure weight mapping. Not fool with them AT ALL. ;)
Laurie
LaurieA posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 2:32 PM
OH, so may not at all, but not in the way we've been doing it the last decade plus. LOL
Laurie
nobodyinparticular posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 2:42 PM
I'm with Blackhearted. Lately, I've been tearing my hair out (what's left of it) over hair. And yes, clothing all my nice, new characters is problematic, to be polite. About ready to throw up my hands and walk off. I want to get beyond Vicki. Get the basics out of the way, then on to the fun stuff.
moogal posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 2:46 PM
Soft body zones that work similar to jelly magnets. I want to be able to place a jiggle deformer (like a magnet) on a figure or prop and have the selected region respond naturally to gravity and movement. Obviously breasts are the most obvious use for this, but I can think of a dozen more.
Richard60 posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 4:27 PM
Quote - > Quote - however I would not want a system to try and second guess what I want it to do. Having a system that prevents you from making dumb mistakes is also a system that will not let you be creative. for instance if the shader is going to be applied to the skin a smart shader would say skin can be Tanish/Blackish/Yellowish but not Blueish/Greenish. Which would be great if you were doing a human but not so great if you were doing the Wicked Witch of the West (who is green).
That's actually not even close to what I was suggesting.
Laurie
From your first post
Quote - Also, the ability NOT to accidentally create garbage - smart nodes and materials.
and a quote for Vilters
Quote - - Materail room. => Make it impossible to connect anything into anything.
Only allow connections that make sense. => Some sort of expandable Flow-Chart with controllable options. But only with the nodes that continue to make sense.
between these two requests you and Vilters are asking for a system to lock you down and not "create garbage". A computer is great at many things, however knowing what is right and wrong is not one of them. A computer can only follow a set of rules. The problem is "garbage" comes in many forms and is easy for you and me to spot but next to impossible for a computer because the "garbage" is technically correct just used in the wrong context. In my example people should not be green or blue because in real life a blue or green person is wrong or "garbage". How is the computer suppose to know that a green person is not garbage?
The first part of my quote says that what you really want is a bunch of presets. Since most parts of a node are animateable then you should be able to have a dial on the figure once you apply the node to the figure and dial in what you want.
Are there no python scripts that present a palette of colors to apply to an object?
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Cage posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 4:41 PM
Dynamic support for two-sided cloth would be my big wish for the cloth room. And I really wish the hair room could be impoved. Some have had success with the styling tools, but I am foiled every time I try them. :lol: Steers like a cow!
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adh3d posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 5:49 PM
A motion capture module using Xbox Kinetic
better way to add and delete morphs from a model, so we can select several morphs once time to delete them.
Support for more figures in the Dave room
VonCroy posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 6:05 PM
Now that is an idea! Posing via Kinetic.
toastie posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 6:18 PM
Being able to easily select multiple body parts, material zones etc. without needing lots of addon scripts.
LaurieA posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 8:53 PM
Quote - > Quote - > Quote - however I would not want a system to try and second guess what I want it to do. Having a system that prevents you from making dumb mistakes is also a system that will not let you be creative. for instance if the shader is going to be applied to the skin a smart shader would say skin can be Tanish/Blackish/Yellowish but not Blueish/Greenish. Which would be great if you were doing a human but not so great if you were doing the Wicked Witch of the West (who is green).
That's actually not even close to what I was suggesting.
Laurie
From your first post
Quote - Also, the ability NOT to accidentally create garbage - smart nodes and materials.
and a quote for Vilters
Quote - - Materail room. => Make it impossible to connect anything into anything.
Only allow connections that make sense. => Some sort of expandable Flow-Chart with controllable options. But only with the nodes that continue to make sense.between these two requests you and Vilters are asking for a system to lock you down and not "create garbage". A computer is great at many things, however knowing what is right and wrong is not one of them. A computer can only follow a set of rules. The problem is "garbage" comes in many forms and is easy for you and me to spot but next to impossible for a computer because the "garbage" is technically correct just used in the wrong context. In my example people should not be green or blue because in real life a blue or green person is wrong or "garbage". How is the computer suppose to know that a green person is not garbage?
The first part of my quote says that what you really want is a bunch of presets. Since most parts of a node are animateable then you should be able to have a dial on the figure once you apply the node to the figure and dial in what you want.
Are there no python scripts that present a palette of colors to apply to an object?
Well, of course you'd still be able to make skin green. Or blue or purple. And you are missing what I'm meaning with the presets. But I'm certainly not gonna argue about it.
Laurie
lmckenzie posted Fri, 26 October 2012 at 11:54 PM
“Revamped material room based on accurate visual preview with sliders with numeric input and editable hidden node feature (a la Vue) …”
Hey, I want my royalty payment ÷)
“Having a system that prevents you from making dumb mistakes is also a system that will not let you be creative.”
There’s no reason that should have to be the case. I don’t think anyone would want to implement a system that for instance limit your choice of skin color. The smart way to do it is to have a switch to turn limits on and off. The system could even serve as a learning tool. It could explain why what you were trying to do wasn’t necessarily a good idea. Now such a ‘Smart Node’ system might be overly ambitious in the short term, but the style of interface that Laurie suggests is IMO a winner – I’ve been saying that for a long time. The aim of a more user friendly interface, whether it be for materials, dynamics etc. is not to rob the advanced user of any capability. It is an alternative. Having the ability to start at the shallow end and go further if one as feels comfortable or more ambitious will , IMO, encourage people to explore the more advanced options at their own pace, rather than being thrown into the deep end. AT present, the alternatives are the kiddie pool or the Marianas Trench.
I agree with everything Blackhearted says. I don’t know if he is suggesting cutting the cord and getting rid of backward compatibility entirely. That might be a long range goal, but the investment people have in ‘legacy’ content is too big. Requiring people to abandon that or try to juggle different versions is I think a bad idea. If the new tools are good enough, people will make the transition anyway.
The big question is how much will it cost and how long would it take to implement these things. Perhaps the new plug-in architecture would make it possible to add hooks for some of the great 3rd party utilities that are available for other applications, rather that try to build it into Poser. That would also allow people to decide whether they wanted to invest in those tools. It would also mean that if some great new advance comes up, the guts of Poser wouldn’t have to be rewritten to take advantage of it. Maybe it would be possible to add integration with Blender for things like fluid simulation etc.
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mylemonblue posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 12:37 AM
Volumetrics, instancing, no rounding errors on obj export.
I don't need anything else. m(_ _)m
Thank you.
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rokket posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 1:03 AM
I want a MAKE ART button and an Alan Alda morph for any male character built in.
Seriously, though.... I don't know enough about Poser to know what I want...
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3anson posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 3:35 AM
Quote - I'd like the scroll wheel to scroll the parameter list when the mouse is over it, instead of zooming the camera.
it does, just click on the tab/window first. :)
adh3d posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 4:20 AM
Another good thing would be to get, export, a list of morphs of a figure ordered by body parts. ( in a txt file for example)
About the pose with kinetic, it will open a new world in pose, more in animated poses than static. will convert pose in a next level animation tool.
cspear posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 5:44 AM
Possibly related to Volumetrics, an overhaul - or better yet, a rewrite - of Poser's Atmosphere system. In its current state it can do useful things, but the render times for something so mathematically simple are ridiculously long.
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wimvdb posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 6:15 AM
Getting rid of the ability to use your old content is the worst mistake they can make for the next version of Poser. I use new AND old content all the time.
Having the ability to convert clothing on the fly to different figures as Blackhearted mentioned would be great if it is better as the shrinkwrapping method, maybe by having parameters to define how it should behave on the different bodyparts
My personal favorite addition would be to have a new animation room where the workflow is improved with new tools and improved editors
vilters posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 6:58 AM
Wim, I agree.
I am probably the only one left never using a "V" or a "M", having zero point zero content for them as well.
But most end users have tons and tons of content for ***** dollars for V4/M4, it would backfire if this could not be used any more.
For new figures and or rigging or clothing system, that is something else.
I agree on fully welded objects, WM figures and WM clothing.
An automatic autofit system, that continually follows the figure withut having to run a cloth sim all the time.
And yes, an updated animation system with text to speach for the figures.
See virtual assistent Denise on tube you. :-)
By PP10 ? Quality of digital speach will have improved also.
Certainly after the Poser heaven/disaster, the future of V4 is looking better and better and better.
Or???
SM has to come with a lightning strike figure in Poser 10 to push V4 off her throne.
But where can SM get 4.000 support items to launch the new figure with????
Not a huge bundle of support items at launch? => Figure dead at birthday.
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faster then your angel can fly"!
LaurieA posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 7:16 AM
Then when? When are ppl willing to untether themselves from more than a decade old content? If they don't, that may make the current users dance in the streets, however, the new potential users may just go strait to DS (as well they should - better tech). Other than a few things like SSS and the added weight mapping (which few are using, admit it), we're still using Poser 4 tech.
Sure, Poser stuff is a huge investment. But you REALLY never expected it to work forever, did you really? I mean, it's software. Frankly, I'm amazed at how much STILL works. I expected it to go the way of the dinosaur long before this. I still wish it would ;). There are bigger and better things out there than the crippled figures and clothes we've always fought with. But I guess with so many ppl that can't see the forest for the old figures, I guess we won't see it. That's about the only thing thing (other than a few bread crumbs here and there) that any owner of Poser at any given time has ever listened to, that "the old figures and content must work into perpetuity". I don't think that allows innovation, really ;). It's an observation and an opinion, noting more ;).
Laurie
wimvdb posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 7:18 AM
Getting that clothing fitting system working for all figures would free up a new world of freedom for figure creators. In that case there would not need to be a single all purpose figure. Wardrobe Wizard and Crossdresser already do this, but it needs to be more integrated and part of the conforming/draping system. A bit like the transfer tool in DS, but much better and usable for all figures. But that is going to be very hard to achieve (for both WM and traditional rigging).
In the ideal world a figure modeler would create a new figure and automatically have all clothing fit and a clothing modeler would have its clothing fit every figure. This would also open up niche markets because the potential user base gets larger (usuable for all figures)
wimvdb posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 7:23 AM
Quote - Then when? When are ppl willing to untether themselves from more than a decade old content? If they don't, that may make the current users dance in the streets, however, the new potential users may just go strait to DS (as well they should - better tech). Other than a few things like SSS and the added weight mapping, we're still using Poser 4 tech.
Laurie
Studio still runs most (if not all ) old content - they just change file formats every other version. I disagree about better tech, they have implemented new technology - as did Poser. Which is better depends on what you want to do.
I can say a lot about other things here, but I have no intention of disrupting this thread
WandW posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 8:15 AM
Quote - > Quote - I'd like the scroll wheel to scroll the parameter list when the mouse is over it, instead of zooming the camera.
it does, just click on the tab/window first. :)
Wow, you're right. I don't need Poser 10 now! :biggrin:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
ssgbryan posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 10:35 AM
Quote - I want a MAKE ART button and an Alan Alda morph for any male character built in.
Seriously, though.... I don't know enough about Poser to know what I want...
The MAKE ART button already exists - it is in WW.
rokket posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 12:28 PM
Quote - > Quote - I want a MAKE ART button and an Alan Alda morph for any male character built in.
Seriously, though.... I don't know enough about Poser to know what I want...
The MAKE ART button already exists - it is in WW.
Well, now I don't need Poser 10 either.... ;)
If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.
Coleman posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 12:39 PM
I agree with above statements concerning improving dynamic cloth use in Poser. That would be a big selling point and all buyers from Posette lovers to Miki4 users would benefit from it.
722 posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 1:05 PM
Cuda poser
RedPhantom posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 2:08 PM Site Admin
I've spent the last 6 years scrounging for freebies, sales and coupons because I have almost no money to spend on poser. I have amassed almost 50 gigs of content. I still use content from p4. I convert it to a modern figure, add an updated texture and it doesn't look half bad. I know there are other people in the same boat. How about instead of asking people to abandon their thousands of gigs (and dollars) worth of old content (think about the outrage), have a converter. Whether it's a script you run on a folder in your runtime, or it's something that runs in the background like the dson thing does. It can update rigging automatically and convert old shaders to the new proper system. Maybe it can even subdivide stuff as needed.
Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage
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Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10
adh3d posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 3:53 PM
LaurieA posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 4:18 PM
Yeah, but can it go on forever without crippling progress on the program? Should it? ;)
FWIW, I TOO, like the rest of you, probably have a terrabyte of Poser stuff.
Laurie
wimvdb posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 4:36 PM
Quote - Yeah, but can it go on forever without crippling progress on the program? Should it? ;)
FWIW, I TOO, like the rest of you, probably have a terrabyte of Poser stuff.
Laurie
What do you mean by crippling progress?
How does having compatibility with older content prevent new content from appearing?
Khai-J-Bach posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 4:43 PM
ok how about we DON'T have this row here and have it in a seperate thread where we can all have the fun of yelling at each other....and I can sell popcorn and tickets.
LaurieA posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 5:31 PM
Well, I think maybe the need to hold on to old content may be holding back progress on Poser. Just my theory, and I'm stickin with it. LOL
Laurie
Demon2330 posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 5:40 PM
Personally I would like to see GPU rendering options added to firefly DAZ managed it with Studio ok it needs work still but its there , and considering the modern day GPU's are incredibly powerful 3GB plus in somecases with alot of pc's carrying 768MB or 1.0GB cards surely that would be a good thing and really take the stress off the lower end CPU's and surely reduce the amount of memory needed to complete a render and turn speeding things up.
Desktop : AMD FX4100 , GT-630 1GB, 4x BD-RE , AOC e2343 23in LED Monitor , 1TB External (120mb/s write speed)(stores my all poser stuff and photo's from camera) and 1TB internal HDD
P2010 , P2012 , P2014 , Reality 3 , Max 2014 , Lightwave 11 , Showcase 2014
Location : Rainy UK
Website @ www.steadyrabbitdesign.freezoy.com (New site still under construction) & Dev art : Tim2700
lmckenzie posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 9:05 PM
“… new potential users may just go strait to DS …”
And facing being cut off from their huge investment in content, existing users might just as well decide to go to DS – especially if that existing content works in DS 5 but not in Poser 10. If you force people to make a break, there’s no predicting which direction they may break in. If none of my existing software was going to work in the next version of Windows, I might as well consider moving to a new platform. Now some folks have knocked Microsoft over the years for providing so much legacy support but I think that despite any drawbacks, it has served their customers well. They probably would have lost many of their business customers who often won’t upgrade if it breaks their existing applications. Think of the average Poser user’s content as being akin to those legacy applications.
Now ideally, you want to enable people to breathe some new life into their old content using the new features, but at the very least, you don’t want to kill them. I think you have to lead people, not push them. Give them new features that are not so complex that the majority never adopt them – and thus have little incentive to upgrade – and allow them to upgrade without invalidating their existing investment. Whoever enables people to use the most content with the least hassle is going to have a big advantage. Didn’t we just see this movie, with DAZ catching holy hell because one new figure wouldn’t work in Poser? And now we want to have everything going back to Posette not work in Poser – on the assumption that people will just roll over and start anew? I’m not sure how well that would fly, even among the congregation here, much less the unwashed out in the world. It’s not going to do Poser any good to be the latest greatest thing since the zipper if a substantial number of Poser users don’t upgrade or defect to DS. If you want to see the pace of innovation slow to a crawl, cut the revenue stream.
I think that people pretty much do expect things to just keep working. As I said before, if the new technology is compelling enough (and simple enough), people will migrate to it fast enough. If you want to speed up the process then make an easy and affordable conversion solution available. Want dynamic cloth to explode – make a quick, easy, non geek way to convert at least 90 percent of conforming clothing to dynamic – in addition to making dynamic radically simpler to use.
“Well, I think maybe the need to hold on to old content may be holding back progress on Poser.”
That’s been said often. There may be some truth in it but I think it is more likely the opposite. I don’t think for instance, that SM hasn’t improved dynamic cloth because too many people are clinging to conforming clothing. I think that more people are sticking with conforming because they find dynamic intimidating and slow. Just the notion that they’re going to have to tackle animation in some form (probably the first time for many) may be a deal breaker. Obviously, dynamic in most situations is superior. It’s not the old content. People would buy new content – they always have. It’s the technology that needs to improve on its own. Implement some of the ideas outlined in this thread, make dynamic close to conforming in terms of ease of use and make them play well together and then you’ll have more people using it – and not coincidentally, pressing SM to improve it even more.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
anupaum posted Sat, 27 October 2012 at 11:28 PM
For me?
Resume render would be a big bonus! I like the idea of cloth moving with a figure without having to re-simulate multiple times. The hair room is a nightmare. Soft body dynamics would be nice for animations. I'd also like to be able to add frames to the beginning of an animation, rather than just the end.
Backward compatibility is important, but I'd also like to see the program move forward. The things I can now do with Genesis have intrigued me.
Too much to ask?
mylemonblue posted Sun, 28 October 2012 at 1:36 AM
Seems my last wish was short one item.
I'm in the middle of rebuilding lost of runtimes, one has 20,000+ files in it at this moment and I'm still re-building it. Guess what else I'm doing? With a, unfortunately limited, third party utility converting 1000's of .rsr files to .png. And then to open Poser and still see some I've missed and have to drill back down through all those folders yet again to get at them with the utility...GAHHHH! Can you guess what I'm thinking? Can you guess what I'm getting really really really really sick of doing? Can you guess what I really wished Poser still did automatically?
God I wished Poser still automatically did it's own rsr to png real time....this is gotten so bloody painfully horrifically tedious to deal with I can't even begin to tell you how much so...
My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things
danielsangeo posted Sun, 28 October 2012 at 2:18 AM
Fine control over the interpolation! I needs it, precious! :)
(See attached image to see what I mean. From Blender.)
adh3d posted Sun, 28 October 2012 at 3:38 AM
I think stay compatible with the past versions don't keep the tool go forward, an example of this is the material room. Since Poser 5 there are nodes and many other things but you can still use materials you used in Poser 4.
Another good addon would be more control the way you use the morphs and their dials.This has been improved a little in Poser 2012.
shedofjoy posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 4:55 AM
i agee with blackhearted too,those really need updating,also considering poser is about figures and posing, kinect for poser seams logical and would be a a lack of forsight not to be included.
Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.
WandW posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 7:31 AM
Quote - God I wished Poser still automatically did it's own rsr to png real time....this is gotten so bloody painfully horrifically tedious to deal with I can't even begin to tell you how much so...
rsr's were left over from Poser 1 when it was for Mac System 7; they should have been eliminated over a decade ago. I just let the converter run recursing subirectories whilst I'm doing something else or overnight after I install stuff......
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wisdom of bagginsbill:
"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
Blackhearted posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 7:32 AM
Quote - For me?
Resume render would be a big bonus!
my renders (PP 2012) resume automatically when my computer wakes from sleep.
anupaum posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 8:21 AM
Quote - my renders (PP 2012) resume automatically when my computer wakes from sleep.
Yes, but you can't start rendering a big scene and shut the program down, then resume, like you can in Vue. For big projects and animations, that would be a bonus!
obm890 posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 9:46 AM
Quote - Oh, while they're at overhauling the rigging and figures they can remove the ridiculously small scaling ;).
Do you mean the "Poser Native Units" thing? If so I agree wholeheartedly.
In 1995 the original 'poser figure' was a desktop artist's mannequin so maybe the stupid scale had a reason, but almost all poser content since then has been real world life-size objects, and still we cling to the stupid scale. Add to this the fact that poser relies on .obj file format which contains no unit information, and poser's idiotic import scale option (the only option) "should this object arrive bigger than a person or smaller than a person?" - in a "Pro" application which claims to pipeline well with the big boys? Are you kidding me?
At the very least Poser should have scale options on import/export so that we can scale models to/from the real world units that most other applications use internally (like metres for modo, inches for sketchup and so on. This could be a list of units like sketchup does it or a list of applications like DAZ does it (so you don't have to know what the internal units of the target app are).
wolf359 posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 12:19 PM
** "More control of the curves in the animation palette. Other 3D programs give this option, like the pen-tool in Photoshop, there are two handles on each side of the keyframe and you can pull each handle to adjust the way the curve goes from the previous keyframe to the current keyframe to the next keyframe, and so on.**
Fine control over the interpolation! I needs it, precious! :)"
??????..... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!
Cheers
Khai-J-Bach posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 2:00 PM
Quote - > Quote - Oh, while they're at overhauling the rigging and figures they can remove the ridiculously small scaling ;).
Do you mean the "Poser Native Units" thing? If so I agree wholeheartedly.
In 1995 the original 'poser figure' was a desktop artist's mannequin so maybe the stupid scale had a reason, but almost all poser content since then has been real world life-size objects, and still we cling to the stupid scale. Add to this the fact that poser relies on .obj file format which contains no unit information, and poser's idiotic import scale option (the only option) "should this object arrive bigger than a person or smaller than a person?" - in a "Pro" application which claims to pipeline well with the big boys? Are you kidding me?
At the very least Poser should have scale options on import/export so that we can scale models to/from the real world units that most other applications use internally (like metres for modo, inches for sketchup and so on. This could be a list of units like sketchup does it or a list of applications like DAZ does it (so you don't have to know what the internal units of the target app are).
actually poser has been able to handle proper scales since poser 6. it's just convention to old content that keeps it all tiny...
Winterclaw posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 2:23 PM
You guys are thinking too small.
P10 needs more temples for all the nude vickies to visit. A make temple button would be nice.
WARK!
Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.
(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)
Demon2330 posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 3:59 PM
Quote - i agee with blackhearted too,those really need updating,also considering poser is about figures and posing, kinect for poser seams logical and would be a a lack of forsight not to be included.
that's true but at this stage kinect for pc un my mind far too expensive, it would be nice to see it added in poser but I personally dont think its going to happen yet but maybe one day , I would love to say be able to map a real girl's/womans natural movements and then put them into genesis or Victoria.
add that to delevopment costs for Smith micro it would be alot
Desktop : AMD FX4100 , GT-630 1GB, 4x BD-RE , AOC e2343 23in LED Monitor , 1TB External (120mb/s write speed)(stores my all poser stuff and photo's from camera) and 1TB internal HDD
P2010 , P2012 , P2014 , Reality 3 , Max 2014 , Lightwave 11 , Showcase 2014
Location : Rainy UK
Website @ www.steadyrabbitdesign.freezoy.com (New site still under construction) & Dev art : Tim2700
danielsangeo posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 7:45 PM
Quote - ** "More control of the curves in the animation palette. Other 3D programs give this option, like the pen-tool in Photoshop, there are two handles on each side of the keyframe and you can pull each handle to adjust the way the curve goes from the previous keyframe to the current keyframe to the next keyframe, and so on.**
Fine control over the interpolation! I needs it, precious! :)"
??????..... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!Cheers
Not sure why the laughter, but, okay.
LaurieA posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 7:47 PM
Probably laughing because Poser never had such a thing and likely won't ;)
Laurie
Dale B posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 8:36 PM
Well, they're running out of things for the still image crowd. With Luxrender and Octane in the wings, that kind of deals with the Firefly limitations. We haven't had any real indicators that the old rigging system and new rigging system conflict, so backwards compatibility isn't an issue. With the new joints and weightmapping we have the chance to move forward a decade or so.....and the two forms of rigging can be used in hybrid fashion, so the options there have increased. Unless you want to get into static effects, that pretty much leaves the animation systems.
Kinect is a nice toy, but that is all it really is. A single unit won't do any kind of acceptable mocap job; all the apps out there recommend at least 2. And the granularity of the capture data is so rough that you could easily spend the same amount of time you would have manually keyframed a sequence in just cleaning up the errors.
What they should do?
1: Add gizmo's to the pose window, making it possible to actually use the mouse to move a figure part without wrecking things.
2: An improved IK system; being able to designate any point in an IK chain as a temporary 'end' would make animating a lot easier (stick a pin in the elbow of one arm during a ragdoll toss by Poser Physics. That elbow is the end of the IK chain until you unpin it, so the forearm and hand is unaffected by the kinematics.
3: Add an actual animation 'room'. A configurable setup designed for animating needs. A better dopesheet, scaling of the fonts on same. A low res window at the bottom of the dopesheet that shows XYZ trans curves for the selected.
4: An enhanced graph editor. The extra curve controls would be an excellent tool. The ability to have say, up to three graph windows side by side, so you can see 3 different motion curves; either XYZ of one part, 3 seperate morph animations, whatever is selected in each window.
5: A more robust collision detection system, with the ability to set an offset, so that 'collision' of body parts leaves enough space between the parts to avoid trapping dynamic cloth in a joint and crashing the sim.
6: Some form of soft body physics. As there is no chance we'll get a Maya style muscle system, any soft body setup would have to work in zones, and be limited to the more apparent soft body parts.
The latter is more dream that hope atm, as it would require an entirely new figure construction (but on the other hand, we have people who are working on figures that have -no- morphs; just bones and weightmaps. Add more bones that end at tissue mass proxies, and the body proxies to keep things from caving in, and you would just have to have a collision/skin clothifying system.). But if they could do it, such figures would have the potential of dethroning all the others (if they were flexible enough to accept a lot of reshaping for figures).
Oh. And the Euler angle flip toggle from Messiah. That can fix so many problems......
davidb367 posted Mon, 29 October 2012 at 8:48 PM
My biggest complaint with Poser is importing created content. I spent weeks getting an octangonal tower prop into Poser. The process is tedious and time consuming. The OBJ importer would implode. I couldn't find much documentation on the subject and after trial and error figured it out.
I second the suggestion to upgrade the OBJ importer and agree with Blackhearted about clothing. I have extreme respsect for the clothing artists who spent weeks preparing clothing for Poser.
Richard60 posted Tue, 30 October 2012 at 11:49 AM
My guess would be that you can already do something very similar in Poser. See my attachment, this was done in Poser 6. The first is two key frames, one at 100 and the other at 200. The second side is the same first two key frames with two more at 101 and 102. Adjusted frame 102 down slightly and end up with something very similar to what you showed in your prior post.
What I would like added is another spline type that will not exceed the keyframe point. This would involve taking into account only the current keyframe and the one before or after. That way you would not get overshoot as you do in the third picture. The two keyframes are circled, however the line continues to raise after going through the point, because it is not at the midway. I know that you could use a linear spline however that does not have the nice slow start/stop effect.
Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13
Richard60 posted Tue, 30 October 2012 at 11:50 AM
Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13
wolf359 posted Tue, 30 October 2012 at 12:17 PM
Actually I was amused by the notion that anyone thinks SM has any interest in people creating animation in poser
Cheers
Dale B posted Tue, 30 October 2012 at 12:58 PM
Maybe not, Wolf. But again, they are fast running out of things they can do for the single frame crowd; that leaves the animation controls to upgrade. Either that, or pull the trigger for more advances in the figure system (and charge for it....leading to not that many people getting a next version), or diddling around trying to be content creators sorta-kinda with no real interest. And having the same result. At least advances in the animation controls will carry over to the dynamics...and with the right upgrades, would make the single frame pose crowd happier with better controls.
Of course I'm also learning my way around Messiah, just in case. And Modo. Slowly, but still.....
monkeycloud posted Tue, 30 October 2012 at 1:16 PM
A "Foot Room"? :sneaky:
LaurieA posted Tue, 30 October 2012 at 5:26 PM
Quote - A "Foot Room"? :sneaky:
Only if it comes with air freshener.
Laurie
danielsangeo posted Tue, 30 October 2012 at 7:58 PM
Quote - My guess would be that you can already do something very similar in Poser. See my attachment, this was done in Poser 6. The first is two key frames, one at 100 and the other at 200. The second side is the same first two key frames with two more at 101 and 102. Adjusted frame 102 down slightly and end up with something very similar to what you showed in your prior post.
Yes, I'm aware you can do something like that, but it's a hack that becomes quickly cumbersome with a lot of keyframes. I'd rather have the ability to have a lot more control the slope and curve of the in-between frames, especially if you WANT overshooting, such as if a character is pitching a ball, their arm continues a bit from the final arc before coming back to the position.
Quote - Actually I was amused by the notion that anyone thinks SM has any interest in people creating animation in poser
Well, Poser does have the capability of animating, and has multiple tools associated with it. If they didn't want to deal with animation, they should remove those tools (but I have a feeling if they did that, a lot of customers would leave for other products...like me).
Animation tools should not be neglected, in my opinion, if they're going to have them at all.
lmckenzie posted Tue, 30 October 2012 at 10:04 PM
Radical idea - make the core Poser posing/clothing functions a plug-in for Blender etc. instead of or in addition to trying to throw the kitchen sink into Poser.
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken
FalseBogus posted Wed, 31 October 2012 at 3:30 AM
Cloth room; addition to having just windforce, a pressure gadget for closed dynamic objects.
Would make a lot easier to make ie. dynamic pillows, balloons and that sort of things.
Windforce is a bit tricky to use with those.
adh3d posted Wed, 31 October 2012 at 9:14 AM
moogal posted Wed, 31 October 2012 at 3:26 PM
Quote - 6: Some form of soft body physics. As there is no chance we'll get a Maya style muscle system, any soft body setup would have to work in zones, and be limited to the more apparent soft body parts.
The latter is more dream that hope atm, as it would require an entirely new figure construction (but on the other hand, we have people who are working on figures that have -no- morphs; just bones and weightmaps. Add more bones that end at tissue mass proxies, and the body proxies to keep things from caving in, and you would just have to have a collision/skin clothifying system.). But if they could do it, such figures would have the potential of dethroning all the others (if they were flexible enough to accept a lot of reshaping for figures).
I'd like to see the soft body effects added to the deformers, with the magnet and waves. It could be represented as a shaded bone inside an outline sphere and would work like iClone's spring solver. The pivot of the bone would be the center of the spring effect, and the tip would be the end, or area most affected. The spring should only affect the mesh inside the sphere, perhaps with adjustable falloff "softness". This wouldn't give deformations against objects, but would make for an easy way to add and animate bounce/jiggle to body mass (breasts, belly, buttocks) and also things like antenna, tails, ears etc.
MGernot posted Thu, 01 November 2012 at 8:52 AM
I`m one of those 'idiots' trying to do some character-animation in poser.
Sure more people would use poser for animation if there were tools that allow them to EASILY create motions, movements, walkcycles.
So i vote for a procedural, footstep-driven, layer-based animation system similar to 3dsmax CAT-Motion/Motionbuilder or something like that.
Want your character walk down a stair? Just place the footsteps on the steps, adjust some parameters like weight, hip swing, timing or even more abstract like aggressive, sneaky, sexy... and so on. And then allow keyframing on top of that. EASY to use retiming tools.
And a stable, jitter-free IK/FK solution.
Und a Mascherl drum rum,danke!
Meli
"Der anzige der do wos hacklt is da Ventilator..."