Hi all --

Well, since I'm still in the production mode and my first product should be coming very shortly, I'm just wondering something --

What's the best way of describing what we do for those of us who make models, do texture work, etc for a living clearly so that other people will understand it? I'm not sure everyone understands 3D Modeling unless you have your cell phone handy with pictures to show them, would graphical engineering work better?

What's some of the ways you describe what you do to others who ask? I'm pondering this now because it happened this afternoon and have been really wondering what's the best way and how to really stick with something that's "easily" explainable.

Have to admit though, it does sound awesome though when I say "Starting my own business...."

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

3D content creation. Cheers

My website

YouTube Channel

"I make stuff for 3D barbies."

3D content creation

Digital artist & photographer is what my business card says. Because thats what I do.Plus it has a nice picture of a cat for when you try to explain and peoples eyes start glossing over :) Seriously if you have to explain, Keep It Basic, use movies like Shrek as an example. Also big tip, if you're going for funding at a bank or business lender, avoid "traditional" poser images AKA big boobies. Show those and you'll be leaving skint and quickly. Same when promoting at schools and uni. Instead big up that you're in a fast growing, highly techie, web relevant industry.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

Oh and write a flipping good business plan.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

Quote - Also big tip, if you're going for funding at a bank or business lender, avoid "traditional" poser images AKA big boobies. Show those and you'll be leaving skint and quickly. Same when promoting at schools and uni. Instead big up that you're in a fast growing, highly techie, web relevant industry.

Or call the banker ahead of time and ask them if they understand the acorym VNITWAS. If they don't call another bank or banker until you find one who does. :lol:

No joke: The banker we have for work used our products and was a big fan before we started doing business with him and we make very limited nitch products for the most part. It can happen. Bankers do have hobbies.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

You could try "Have you seen the Transformers movie ? I do that on a smaller scale"

What I've learned over the years.

If you say 3D .Most will think you mean 3D movies with the glasses.

If you say CGI ,There clueless.or think ya mean Common Gateway Interface.

If you say ya work on PC's ,there want you to fix there PC.

If kids here you say Shrik ,Trasformers there want you to make them Shrik ,Transformers toys.

If you say Games there think 1 or 2 people could make Halo in a day or two.
Even had adults tell me what kind of games I should make.

When people don't know what ya mean there imagine all kinds of stuff.

Most time I just say I'm a Artist .
1/2 the time if I say CGI Artist ,the CGI will confuses them.

Good luck explaining to a civilian what CGI is.
I just tell them to google zBrush.

I started in 1979, CGI in 1998 .Could not have gone to a bank and said I'm a Artist.
Loan me money to make Art.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Don't call it graphical engineering, unless your officially trained to be called like that. With that, I'm not saying you're not good or so, it's just sending out the wrong message and you're still not making clear to what you are. Graphical engineering makes me think of something completely else, something way more technical.

How about 3D Artist? When people ask me I just say I'm into 3D modeling and show them some examples, make sure you have them on your phone Those images, if you have any good ones, impress them more then any title.

As for starting a business creating content..... I'm hoping you did some proper research before starting out? Do you have a solid plan with steps along the way you can take? I'm doing this as a hobby, but compared to those who call this their business, I have created quite some content. I've got a steady store running, creating a minimal amount each month, but I sure cannot live from that. I've been contemplating doing it business wise in the past, but after some research I gave up. The only thing I found out is that most people selling content cannot make a living from it. Do realise that most of the top vendors we know, doesn't matter which store they're selling it, do not make a sole income from creating content at all. They do a lot more 3D related. The majority of vendors make less then $200 each month, while putting in quite some time and effort.

Just start asking vendors what they do make each month and they suddenly all go silent. I'm OK with telling you...... bad months I'm selling around $100, good months $200-$300, best months around $400. I'm releasing 2-3 items each month, mainly props or cloting for Toon figures.

You can take my spot in the poser vendor world, I'm going to quit. My wife and I are setting up a business in which my 3D and other artitic skills will be used. Creating Poser content takes a lot of time, with little in return, though it's lot's of fun, it isn't going to create a income on it's own. I need my time for other things at the moment.

Also realise you need to build a store to generate income. Let's say you have a store here at Rendo. You need lot's of items in it to generate a good income. There's a lot of competition. The more items in your store the more chances on a good revenue. But, there are a lof things to consider..... how's the economy? What are others releasing? What do customers buy? Can I generate enough content to keep my customers interested? Can I keep up with the latest thing?

This is mainly a hobby market, it's very subject to change. What are the lastest figures? What is the latest hype? What movies are in the cinema? And so on and so on.....

Anyway, like to wish you good luck with your ideas and endeavours!

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

3d artist.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Just avoid acronyms, unless you wish to bamboozle the layman...

Professional Computer Graphics Artist?

Digital Artist?

Computer Graphics Industry Content Designer?

etc.

Thanks everyone for your input, it's appreciated.

aeilkema, sorry to hear your leaving this aspect of the 3D Business. I'm ready to really strive and push myself so that I can create cutting edge props, scenes, figures, and still, even though my acupuncture is helping me, working in a normal environment just isn't possible for me with my other related items due to my headaches. I need the business from home to feel at least productive, and worth something, so that's why I'm doing what I enjoy.

I appreciate your honesty as well on the income; that is important, and hoping that times do improve with our economy.

Thanks so much everyone for your thoughts. Given me something to think about.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

Over the years I've tried to describe the 3D content/hobby I have. Usually peeps just stare at me with this blank uncomprehending expression. Now when someone asks about it I just say "Tastes like chicken!" They still have the same blank expression, but it's a lot quicker explanation.

I Poser from Poser 1.
And pretty soon I knew this is/was/is a fine hobby, but could and would never be more than that.

Now the good years are over.
Fortunately, the quality of the products has increased hugely, but so has the time to build and test them.

You need at least a dozen or so trustworthy quality testers that can test them in most Poser versions on Windows and on MAC, and in most DS versions on Windows and on MAC. And certainly respect the rules of the stores you want to sell from.

And you have to build a reputation, before sales will start to go up.

And then?? What do you make?
Unfortunately, lately there has been so much competition that there is close to no money in it any more.
When true quality work, that took months to build, sells for 5$ ???

There must be some 3000 bikini's out there. Some 1000 opening and closing skirts and skirts.
Suits? How many more do we need???

Hair, yes, hair is an open market, but difficult to buid.

I Poser for a singe purpose only: PPS => Pure Personal Satisfaction.
That goes from building something in Hexagon and or Blender, through uvmapper and Poser.

Recently, the building part gives the most satisfaction.

So I spend more and more time in Hexagon and Blender.
As some others do.
And we buy less, and less, and less.

Could I make some money?
Certainly.
And giving support, and answering hundreds of e-mails a day, would do no good to my head either.

3D in Poser or DS is a very satisfying hobby.

3D job? In Poser or DS?
Nah,

Just my 2 cents.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

There are over a Million Renderosity Members.

Are you selling what would have a lot of sells ?
What price is your product worth ?

Probably want to check my math

10 Sells *'s a month for $2.00 = $20.00 a month
10 Sells *'s a month for $10.00 = $100.00 a month

25 Sells *'s a month for $2.00 = $50.00 a month
25 Sells *'s a month for $10.00 = $250.00 a month

50 Sells *'s a month for $2.00 = $100.00 a month
50 Sells *'s a month for $10.00 = $500.00 a month

100 Sells *'s a month for $2.00 = $200.00 a month
100 Sells *'s a month for $10.00 = $1000.00 a month

200 Sells *'s a month for $2.00 = $400.00 a month
200 Sells *'s a month for $10.00 = $2000.00 a month

300 Sells *'s a month for $2.00 = $600.00 a month
300 Sells *'s a month for $10.00 = $3000.00 a month

400 Sells *'s a month for $2.00 = $800.00 a month
400 Sells *'s a month for $10.00 = $4000.00 a month

monkeycloud : I just can not pronounce the word Digital or Physicist correctly.
Good thing I wasn't a Physicist ,LOL.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

"..If they don't call another bank or banker until you find one who does. " Good advice :) LOL Seriously though, I think you where beyond lucky there! RorrKonn - yep good numbers. aeilkema - well said especially about the research. While a good portfolio is vital, it's SWAT analysis's, marketing plans and most importantly the numbers that will get you the start up help. vilters - also well said. Especially the line.. "Now the good years are over" ..reality is very few folks will make enough to take it full time. Moreso now with the recession and rules that make advertising your creations very difficult. Indeed I'm thinking maybe it's close to going part time or even ditch this. To be honest the fun is going. Ragtopjohnny - if your headaches class you as disabled, it could be worth you talking to some disability charity's. Many have schemes that help people start up small businesses. Not always with hard cash, but equipment or free support.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

I'm not a lawyer for any country.
But if ya on disability ,I would fine out for sure ,What effects being a Pro Artist would.
have on ya benefits before ya started any business.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

You're 100% correct there RorrKonn. This has to be done legitimately or the artist would find them selves in deep-do-do. Thats why an artist would go through one of the disability charitys. As well as providing business help they can also advise on the effects on benefits. Which often isn't an adverse effect, but a positive one. In the UK if it's done right the artist could be 200-300% better off for 3-4 months.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

But you have to decleare your income.
And then the tax collecter pays you a nice visit. :-(
And then its lawyer time. ;-(

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

But you have to decleare your income. And then the tax collecter pays you a nice visit. :-( And then its lawyer time. ;-( Only if you're careless :) Seriously though if you play it straight you can be a lot better off than on benefits alone. For a disabled person here in the UK as much 250 a week better off, plus some earnings are allowed on top. OK sure thats for a limited period, after that you get roughly the same as someone on the dole, and depending on income all your rent and local taxes paid. Obviously it's all dependant on your business being a success, which can't be guaranteed especially now, so I'd say to anyone considering something like this go part time for now and see how it goes. Part time doesn't affect your benefits if careful either.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

That's right Mr. Sparky.

I checked into that too with my headaches, etc. and found out everything about "self employment".

Doing it the right way, so that way no shocks later on about it at all. Making sure my Ts are crossed and Is are dotted.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

The term I go with is 3D Content Developer. It explains itself.

My Renderosity Store

Also Johnny, before you decide to consider a business in this field you need to have a product so people can see what you are offering and get an idea of what you are about. Post some pictures, get feedback, build hype and a rep and based on that information decide if this is what you want to proceed in. Release freebies and see how many people are interested in what you make. Analyze the download data and compare it to other freebies and products. This market can be very cut-throat...Building a car for example? There are lots of car products out there. How is yours better, or different? Well let us see..:) I'm not trying to scare you, just preparing you for what is a very tough market to break into and be successful. It can be a very profitable industry, but only if you do the research and approach it properly and make something people will want or use. If not it will bite you in the ass and all your hard work would have been for nothing. Remember, you are going up against some heavy hitters. Also study and look at what has been offered already. Look for gaps in the market. Anyways, I look forward to seeing what you have to offer:) AND start off as part time..experiment first.....

My Renderosity Store

Quote - Don't call it graphical engineering, unless your officially trained to be called like that. With that, I'm not saying you're not good or so, it's just sending out the wrong message and you're still not making clear to what you are. Graphical engineering makes me think of something completely else, something way more technical.

How about 3D Artist? When people ask me I just say I'm into 3D modeling and show them some examples, make sure you have them on your phone Those images, if you have any good ones, impress them more then any title.

As for starting a business creating content..... I'm hoping you did some proper research before starting out? Do you have a solid plan with steps along the way you can take? I'm doing this as a hobby, but compared to those who call this their business, I have created quite some content. I've got a steady store running, creating a minimal amount each month, but I sure cannot live from that. I've been contemplating doing it business wise in the past, but after some research I gave up. The only thing I found out is that most people selling content cannot make a living from it. Do realise that most of the top vendors we know, doesn't matter which store they're selling it, do not make a sole income from creating content at all. They do a lot more 3D related. The majority of vendors make less then $200 each month, while putting in quite some time and effort.

Just start asking vendors what they do make each month and they suddenly all go silent. I'm OK with telling you...... bad months I'm selling around $100, good months $200-$300, best months around $400. I'm releasing 2-3 items each month, mainly props or cloting for Toon figures.

You can take my spot in the poser vendor world, I'm going to quit. My wife and I are setting up a business in which my 3D and other artitic skills will be used. Creating Poser content takes a lot of time, with little in return, though it's lot's of fun, it isn't going to create a income on it's own. I need my time for other things at the moment.

Also realise you need to build a store to generate income. Let's say you have a store here at Rendo. You need lot's of items in it to generate a good income. There's a lot of competition. The more items in your store the more chances on a good revenue. But, there are a lof things to consider..... how's the economy? What are others releasing? What do customers buy? Can I generate enough content to keep my customers interested? Can I keep up with the latest thing?

This is mainly a hobby market, it's very subject to change. What are the lastest figures? What is the latest hype? What movies are in the cinema? And so on and so on.....

Anyway, like to wish you good luck with your ideas and endeavours!

This income data depends on what was sold and where. I know vendors who walk away with over $4000 a month easily off one product and back catalog sales. Some with even more. So there is money to be made. And thats part time..

My Renderosity Store

Thanks Zevo --- I do appreciate your suggestions. The reason why I really don't show any of my work here on the forums is because I'm not sure how well it's taken like it used to be in the past though my work has DRASTICALLY improved. When I upload, I'll probably post some images in my Gallery and so forth.

I just don't want to be considered as spamming the forums showing off my work which I'm not doing, but it's just that if people see alot of posts, they might get offended sadly. :sad:

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

Ragtopjohnny : Think it would be kool to Post ya mesh in ya gallery ,Then post a link in ya signature.

A lot of Pro CGI Artist will have links in there signatures.

Ragtopjohnny : Ya got gMax & Sculptris,zBrush in ya signature.

I know zBrush has a commercial license.

Seems like there where debates about gMax for commercial use.

We have never used gMax.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Zev0 : How I look at it.

1 : There's over a million Renderosity members.

2 : CGI Artist like AerySoul ,Stonemason , etc etc have been around a long long time.
Now ya know there good enough to get a CGI job just about any where they want.
So why do they stay ?

If I made cloths I would ask my self are they as cool as AerySoul's ?
If yes ,then ya make some change.
If no ,Don't waist ya time.

If I made Buildings I would ask my self are they as cool as StoneMason's ?
If yes ,then ya make some change.
If no ,Don't waist ya time.

If I made ???
I would ask my self are they as cool as the best there is that makes those kinda meshes ?
If yes ,then ya make some change.
If no ,Don't waist ya time.

I make medieval fantasy meshes.
And I always use zBrush gallery as a cool gage.
If it's not worthy of the zBrush gallery then it's TRASH.

If I made a car I would ask is it worthy to take to the top car shows ?

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - This income data depends on what was sold and where. I know vendors who walk away with over $4000 a month easily off one product and back catalog sales. Some with even more. So there is money to be made. And thats part time..

I know there are some who do, but they're not the majority. It's unrealistic to think a starting vendor would even come close to that amount. You have to take the whole back catalog sales into account, they make up a major part of the $4000. I know vendors who make $10,000 each month when releasing a new product combined with back catalog sales, but it's not realistic for most of us to expect that, it took years to get to that level and they only release 4-6 products a year.

But the whole truth is that a lof of the vendors who claim to make $$$ aren't doing so at all. I'm selling at CP and here have been a vendor ar RDNA. Before I was a vendor and did my research, I've had vendors tell me how much they made...... a lot claimed to be able to live off their content selling at only one store.... claiming to make the $4000+ you state. I did a lot of effort to get insight into sales figures and once you're allowed to see this it's shocking..... the majority of vendors who claimed to make $$$ when doing my research, made in reality only 10%-20% of the amount they claimed. RDNA is much more open to vendors about sales figures and they do release sales reports to their vendors if aksed for them. I'm still shocked when I do think of these reports and that's not in a positive way.

The same question asked in this thread was posted a while back. Some vendor I know, started throwing around sales figures he made from a particular new product released at CP and that he could live of the sole income from the CP product sales. I happened to be the top seller that month at CP with a few of my products in the list, I'm quite often in their 30 days best selling list. Even though CP doesn't release sales figures, it's easy to work out from the list what people make. His product wasn't in the list at all. You can guess the outcome of this story, he didn't even get near the sales figure he was claiming.... he sold less then 5 items that month, priced at $10 or so, you can do the math.

I know vendors who tell me they make $4000, but...... If a vendor claims $4000 and he/she doesn't show me the monthly report, I'm not going to believe them at all anymore...... vendors just love to keep up the appearance, but the majority has to rely on other income as well, especially the last 2 years.

So, getting back your statement..... did you see the monthly reports of these vendors you know or did they just tell you? Unless you've seen the reports, there is no way to confirm their claim and let's not forget that most vendors who can make a living have been building their content catalog for many years to get to that point, but with the current economy, even they have a much harder time to generate sales, since everyone sales are down most of the time.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Quote - Zev0 : How I look at it.

1 : There's over a million Renderosity members.

2 : CGI Artist like AerySoul ,Stonemason , etc etc have been around a long long time.
Now ya know there good enough to get a CGI job just about any where they want.
So why do they stay ?

If I made cloths I would ask my self are they as cool as AerySoul's ?
If yes ,then ya make some change.
If no ,Don't waist ya time.

If I made Buildings I would ask my self are they as cool as StoneMason's ?
If yes ,then ya make some change.
If no ,Don't waist ya time.

If I made ???
I would ask my self are they as cool as the best there is that makes those kinda meshes ?
If yes ,then ya make some change.
If no ,Don't waist ya time.

I make medieval fantasy meshes.
And I always use zBrush gallery as a cool gage.
If it's not worthy of the zBrush gallery then it's TRASH.

If I made a car I would ask is it worthy to take to the top car shows ?

I think this way too. However there are opportunities where people aren't really looking for the best, but just something different. I don't really buy Aerysoul clothing because it isn't my style, regardless how great they are. I but more casual clothing instead of fantasy. It's hard to make a formula because everybody has different tastes. All you can do is as much research as you can and hope that what you make is going to be some kind of success:)

My Renderosity Store

Quote - > Quote - This income data depends on what was sold and where. I know vendors who walk away with over $4000 a month easily off one product and back catalog sales. Some with even more. So there is money to be made. And thats part time..

I know there are some who do, but they're not the majority. It's unrealistic to think a starting vendor would even come close to that amount. You have to take the whole back catalog sales into account, they make up a major part of the $4000. I know vendors who make $10,000 each month when releasing a new product combined with back catalog sales, but it's not realistic for most of us to expect that, it took years to get to that level and they only release 4-6 products a year.

But the whole truth is that a lof of the vendors who claim to make $$$ aren't doing so at all. I'm selling at CP and here have been a vendor ar RDNA. Before I was a vendor and did my research, I've had vendors tell me how much they made...... a lot claimed to be able to live off their content selling at only one store.... claiming to make the $4000+ you state. I did a lot of effort to get insight into sales figures and once you're allowed to see this it's shocking..... the majority of vendors who claimed to make $$$ when doing my research, made in reality only 10%-20% of the amount they claimed. RDNA is much more open to vendors about sales figures and they do release sales reports to their vendors if aksed for them. I'm still shocked when I do think of these reports and that's not in a positive way.

The same question asked in this thread was posted a while back. Some vendor I know, started throwing around sales figures he made from a particular new product released at CP and that he could live of the sole income from the CP product sales. I happened to be the top seller that month at CP with a few of my products in the list, I'm quite often in their 30 days best selling list. Even though CP doesn't release sales figures, it's easy to work out from the list what people make. His product wasn't in the list at all. You can guess the outcome of this story, he didn't even get near the sales figure he was claiming.... he sold less then 5 items that month, priced at $10 or so, you can do the math.

I know vendors who tell me they make $4000, but...... If a vendor claims $4000 and he/she doesn't show me the monthly report, I'm not going to believe them at all anymore...... vendors just love to keep up the appearance, but the majority has to rely on other income as well, especially the last 2 years.

So, getting back your statement..... did you see the monthly reports of these vendors you know or did they just tell you? Unless you've seen the reports, there is no way to confirm their claim and let's not forget that most vendors who can make a living have been building their content catalog for many years to get to that point, but with the current economy, even they have a much harder time to generate sales, since everyone sales are down most of the time.

I believe their claims because there are some months I am reaching close to those numbers as well, and I have only been a vendor for 5-6 months. So it is not impossible for a new vendor to succeed. I don't have a huge catalog, but the items I have do perform reasonably well. All I am saying is it can be done, maybe not on a general level, but still possible. You don't have to be years in the market with a huge catalog to make an impact. There are other new vendors who came out of nowhere and are constantly on the whats hot charts, so anything can happen. And don't really buy into that whole economy story and times are tough. People are still buying content like they did before. Remember there are a lot of new users popping up with no content and they will spend if needed. The guys with huge libraries not so much. This market is growing and it is doing so at a much faster pace than in the past. There is a lot of intergration between apps these days so those who only used to use stuff like max or blender, are now using Poser/daz as well and doing hybrid projects.

My Renderosity Store

Quote - Thanks Zevo --- I do appreciate your suggestions. The reason why I really don't show any of my work here on the forums is because I'm not sure how well it's taken like it used to be in the past though my work has DRASTICALLY improved. When I upload, I'll probably post some images in my Gallery and so forth.

I just don't want to be considered as spamming the forums showing off my work which I'm not doing, but it's just that if people see alot of posts, they might get offended sadly. :sad:

You wont be spamming. If you have something you want to share then do so. Thats what these forums are for. People here will be more than happy to help you. Just don't make 3 threads a day lol. I try and ask multiple questions in a thread instead of making a new one for each question:)

My Renderosity Store

Quote - I believe their claims because there are some months I am reaching close to those numbers as well, and I have only been a vendor for 5-6 months. So it is not impossible for a new vendor to succeed. I don't have a huge catalog, but the items I have do perform reasonably well. All I am saying is it can be done, maybe not on a general level, but still possible. You don't have to be years in the market with a huge catalog to make an impact. There are other new vendors who came out of nowhere and are constantly on the whats hot charts, so anything can happen. And don't really buy into that whole economy story and times are tough. People are still buying content like they did before. Remember there are a lot of new users popping up with no content and they will spend if needed. The guys with huge libraries not so much. This market is growing and it is doing so at a much faster pace than in the past. There is a lot of intergration between apps these days so those who only used to use stuff like max or blender, are now using Poser/daz as well and doing hybrid projects.

You know what? Just post some screenshots of your vendor control room with your account summary and total sales summary and we continue talking about this, it's as easy at that. Attached is mine, make sure your details are visible. I don't make a secret about these things and it may help the John as well. I'm not a great seller here, my store is only courtesy to my buyers, since some of them don't want to buy at CP, so only some of my items are here. And of course, my prices are differently then most, but that is a choice I made, I don't depend on content sales. Most of the content I sell has been made for my own projects and since I know poser/ds toon lovers enjoy the items as well, I release them for a low price. but even the low price generates some nice extra's at times.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Here's my monthly CP report..... bit of a mess and only part of it, since CP generates huge reports, but the importand figures are in it. so, I challenge other Vendors to posts theirs, so John and any other aspiring vendor get's a good idea of what can be earned and what not.

By the way, John, don't go by the total number of sold items, it's 300+ I know. But that's because my items are sold at a low price and CP counts the free items I do have in the number as well. The number of sold items is around 200.

what I've learned is that with my items, I can price them at 'regular' prices as well, $6-$12, did that in the past. I will make a little more then what I do now, but I made the choice to lower my prices so more people can enjoy the items. I make less money that way, but sell more in quantity, it's more important to me that people can use the items and don't have to worry about spending a lot on them, then me making lot's of money from them. I'm also operating on a small corner of the content market, toons, it's not where the money is at...... but the fun sure is there. Other sections will have different sales figures.

Hope this helps a little and let's hope that others are willing to share their sales info as well, so you can gain some insight.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I don't make my sales figures public. PM me with your email and I will show you. Then maybe you will believe what I say is true.

My Renderosity Store

Oh, com'on be good sport and help some wanabee vendors out by showing what is possible, then when they see this thread they will be encouraged by your achievements and it will challenge them to excel in their endeavours...... I guess "put your money where your mouth is" would be a good expression to use now.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Sigh..Fine.. I won't post all my stores just the Rendo one. And I am only doing this because it is not a full month total. This amount is from the 1st of the month till current date. In otherwords, what I made in 9 days. And believe me when I say, there are vendors with higher totals than this. So as you can see, there is money to be made in this industry.

My Renderosity Store

That's encouraging to see.

I have no aspirations personally, to sell anything. But as a consumer, I see it as a positive thing that it is possible for the 3D content makers, such as Zev0, who's output I appreciate, and hope to see more of, are getting a worthwhile return for their efforts.

Like any industry, the marketplace doesn't owe you a living... at least you can't approach it like that. You need to be clever, I think, about what you make... for a start. Target the market demands... if you can figure out what those are.

If what that is, that is being demanded, happens to be something you personally would want to make, and enjoy making... then you're on to a winner, I guess?

Wow, Zevo, I'm impressed!!!!

That definitely gives me high hopes for the future!!!! I think I'll start a sketchbook soon of what I'm going to sell, once it's been uploaded.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

Cool. Look forward to see what you come up with:)

My Renderosity Store

Thanks Zevo. I think you all will like it --- I hope anyway.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

Zev0, awesome sales and thanks for posting this, very encouraging! Now people can see there's a little extra cash to be made as I do each month and serious money if that's the goal your after. But.... one more question, how much time do you put into it? For me it's about 15 hours in a week, since it's only part of what I do. I'd say 15 hours and getting what I get in return is a good deal. I haven't modeled for 2 months now, but my stores are still generating a nice base amount as you could see from the stats I posted earlier on. Whenever I added something new, I earn more. Unless you create something 'hot' like you've done, if you want to earn a good income that's the way to go.

John.... to be very honest, cars aren't going to cut it, at least not from the get go, it will take time with content like that. Just check out Zev0's stuff, he made something unique for a large group of users and it pays off. On the other is me, targeting a small group of users and it still pays off, but all in respect to the user group. My user group is small and I will never see the return Zev0 has, but that's not my goal, I don't need to. I do have a steady income without selling content, I'm just filling a gap. In my opinion, that's the key.... filling a gap.... go where no one goes.

Of course, you can model cars and if you do well, it will generate an income, but you need a large catalog to do so and building that will take time. I'm sure mrsparky can tell you all about that. As you see, different routes to take!

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Thank man. I put in about 4-5 hours everyday on products when my dayjob is finished. But I work from home so my times are a bit more flexable. If I don't have a lot of work, I'm not stuck in an office just wasting time. I can just hop on my other PC and work on products and experiment on new things. And for me its not really about the money although it is always nice to make some:). I enjoy making things that people can use. For years as a customer I sat wondering what if this could be done or if only this figure/product could do that. After years of teaching myself, printing out thread tips and reading endless tutorials, I can create things I always wanted and share it with others.

My Renderosity Store

Well, this is all I do have for a job. I've spent the past three months working on an automobile model and I can tell you, it can be quite challenging.

With sometimes my focus shifting, I jump from item to item, so I have several things going on.

At least it's a hint for the community --- my first release is automotive related.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

Ragtopjohnny : Didn't see DAZ Studio in your arsenal.

Zev0 Made cool bends for Poser & DAZ Studio ,V4 & V5.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Zev0 : Can you say between V4,V5 bend sells wich was the biggest hit

for exsample V4 55% ,V5 45%

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Oh, Rorr - I do have Daz, just never really got to learn it like Poser. But it is a secret weapon of mine.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

@ RorrKonn - Well the Genesis one has been out much longer than the v4 version, but I can see the V4 version selling more since these morphs make more of a difference on V4 and Genesis has less of a long bottom issue. Also this whole perception that there are millions of V4 users compared to Genesis is actually false according to the product sales. Genesis content sells roughly the same amount as V4 content meaning there is about an equal amount of users for both among those who purchase content. Other vendors have also confirmed this. But V4 is still the queen, for now..

My Renderosity Store

I'm sure mrsparky can tell you all about that.... Oh yes...:) Zev)'s figures are impressive because his products are impressive. They fit a niche in the market which he's filled perfectly. Image shows the figures for the first month of my ruined city set. (includes other stuff) Within 3 months that made over 2 grand. Yep 2000 smackeroonies on just one product alone. Plus when one product sells well, you sell more of the other stuff. Back then, freebie downloads averaged around 1-2GB a week. So I guess you're thinking he must be pretty successful, popular and loaded :) Well read on..

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

Now for the reality check. .... Look at the huge amount of time Zev0 takes to make things. On the example above, that city took nearly 6 months. Next look at the piccy showing this months figures. Bit of a difference there! Question is why? Theres the seasonal factor, it's just after xmas. Also unlike 2010 we're now in a serious recession where poser content is a luxury for most folks. That lack of sales means lack of income, but the household bills havn't. If anything those costs have increased. So like Zev0 - and many others - that means more one than job. Plus I also believe in supporting the people who support me. So now there more time spent on freebies and less on products. On average 400-500 artists download 3-4GB of freebies every 48 hours. But less than 3% buy. You also need to consider how the poserverse has changed recently. The big sites are also suffering - and WITHOUT debating that here- theres been big rule changes which make it a lot harder for independent artists to promote their work. So you'll need to find other ways than the forums to market your work. Please don't get me wrong here, I wish every artist success, however you do need to be realistic.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

aeilkema - good to see someone else thinks of other artists and not just the financial. Gives me some hope that community can still mean community :)

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

Very accurate assesment there Mrsparky and thanks for the compliment:) Also you must time the release of your products. Look at what products are currently in store look at what specials other sites have running and formulate a plan. Eg I was stupid to release a product here during Daz's September PA sale and it did terrible. It only picked up sales as a back catalog product a month later. So there are lots of factors to consider. You cannot just release a product and hope for the best. It might do ok, but it can do much better. There is a lot of behind the scene work that must be done in order for it to succeed. So many times I have seen great products over shadowed or fail because of bad timing on release and a high asking price. Also placing items on sale helps..and pay for advertising..the more exposure the better:) It's your product. Your hard work. Market it as best as you can...

My Renderosity Store

Credit where due there ZevO :) You've got some nice stuff. Also agree with your comments in your post above. Seasonal items in particular can do well, though remember if you want pro artists to use it - release it 3-4 months ahead. Take for example, those tourist magazines you'll pick up in July. My photos will have been purchased last month, the magazines printed in April. Also consider cross promotional work in other areas. The piccy above is a render for an expo. Next month I'll be photographing a car club for my bro. While most of those photos will end up on the clubs f*cebollox page, some will picked up by car mags, on some mags I might be able to include a render or talk about future vehicle designs. Some will also end up on those iffy mobile phone wallpaper sites. But accepting piracy, and dealing with it, is part of the selling process. Finally don't give up when something doesn't work, often despite your best efforts somethings just don't take off.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

aeilkema ,Zev0 ,mrsparky : Half to say you all are the coolest of the cool Venders.
I've been asking about working as a vender since 1998.

May the CGI Gods .
Bless you all with unending inspiration
and Keep you all in the good graces of the community.

Most sincerely thanks a lot you all.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Guys, let's hope many aspiring vendors will read all of the valuable information given here! Thanks Mr Sparky for showing some numbers also and even going beyond that, showing what can happen over time. That's why I never made a business of it, knowing what can happen from month to month. I haven't made these figures from one product, my best selling one has done $800, still not bad, but after the initial nice sales, things slow down.

I also agree about seasons, but I've noticed something strange last year. Normally higher sales start around thanksgiving and ending Januari or a bit later and the slow down again. Summer is always slow. But last your I suddenly had a huge peak starting in March and ending May. Made 3 times as much as I did around the Christmas season. I still don't know what happened, I guess divine intervention, but the timing was perfect, needed a new laptop and my little store paid for it. Still it was kind of odd, never happened to me before.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Quote - aeilkema ,Zev0 ,mrsparky : Half to say you all are the coolest of the cool Venders.
I've been asking about working as a vender since 1998.

May the CGI Gods .
Bless you all with unending inspiration
and Keep you all in the good graces of the community.

Most sincerely thanks a lot you all.

Lol anytime:) I like to help where I can because I was in the same position in the beginning, fishing for answers and getting no straight answers.

My Renderosity Store

Also, I have to wonder, like my other hobby, Flight Simming, do people sometimes in this hobby have to have the latest and greatest new clothes/props/accessories for thier figures? I would have to think that might be the case too with some sale increases.

My latest sketchbook is coming, working on the final pieces now on my first product, and will be hitting the "Upload" button shortly.

Have a good one everybody, will be back later.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

Quote - Guys, let's hope many aspiring vendors will read all of the valuable information given here! Thanks Mr Sparky for showing some numbers also and even going beyond that, showing what can happen over time. That's why I never made a business of it, knowing what can happen from month to month. I haven't made these figures from one product, my best selling one has done $800, still not bad, but after the initial nice sales, things slow down.

I also agree about seasons, but I've noticed something strange last year. Normally higher sales start around thanksgiving and ending Januari or a bit later and the slow down again. Summer is always slow. But last your I suddenly had a huge peak starting in March and ending May. Made 3 times as much as I did around the Christmas season. I still don't know what happened, I guess divine intervention, but the timing was perfect, needed a new laptop and my little store paid for it. Still it was kind of odd, never happened to me before.

Ye..Since I do not live in the states I miss out on all the holiday type sales like haloween since we do not celebrate it here. Guess I need a holiday calender lol. During that time people release the themed products, something I have never done..So there is another example of an opportunity to generate sales. Have a clothing product? Release a halloween texture set for it. Might not bring in much but it gives added value to your product and can lead to back catalog sales.

My Renderosity Store

Quote - Also, I have to wonder, like my other hobby, Flight Simming, do people sometimes in this hobby have to have the latest and greatest new clothes/props/accessories for thier figures? I would have to think that might be the case too with some sale increases.

My latest sketchbook is coming, working on the final pieces now on my first product, and will be hitting the "Upload" button shortly.

Have a good one everybody, will be back later.

Latest and greatest? No. Just something that has functionality and has appeal. Everybody has different tastes. So your product will appeal to somebody providing it is of a certain standard in terms of quality and is what they are looking for.

My Renderosity Store

..do people sometimes in this hobby have to have the latest and greatest new clothes/props/accessories... Nope. One of my freebies is for V3, been years since it's made and artists are still downloading and using it. It can also be a good thing to ensure your model can be used in other apps. For example poser shaders can't be used in studio or vue, so there you'd include a basic texture set which means the model can be loaded OK in most apps. While still keeping the functionality for the app you use. One way of doing this and increasing sales and visibility is make it as a freebie.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

OK here's the plan.
I'm making a female medieval fantasy outfit.
That would fit in my 2D Art Gallery,the zBrush Gallery's ,On a girl standing by the river styx.
The out fit is rather a complex high end mesh.
After the out fit is finished a month or two from now ,hopefully.

I'm going to post the out fit and ask if anyone wants to be my partner.
I have no objections to have one partner for V5 and another partner for V4
and any partners for any other characters any one want's to support.

Also I would rather work with a team.I know a lot of Venders work solo.
But the most successful vender is DAZ. DAZ is not a solo vender.

I need partners to help tech me how to be a good supportive vender for are customers.
I'm going to make HTML based tutorials for are customers.
I need partners to help tech me how to make all this work correctly in there app's.
I have no doubt there's questions I need answered that I don't know to ask yet.

Yes I need money to pay the bills just like every one.
I care more about being the best at what I do.
I would rather make high end meshes and sell 10 then make trash and sell a 100.

Let me know ya thought on this ,Thanks.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

PM me RorrKorn...

My Renderosity Store

In response to the OP, why not call yourself an Entrepeneur, everyone knows what one is and normally shut up after you drop that on them as they realise they have just opened the door to a driving desire to succeed in something and you are now about to tell them your life story LOL

I think there are many aspiring vendors, probably more now than there ever have been, but the dream of making a living from it is far different then the reality shown above. I think and this is only observation not preference or opinion, that "slut wear" and certain other morphs,poses,etc will always outsell vehicles, hair, textures, lights etc, and if you are prepared to take your products over to the side of the adult entertainment industry you have a better chance of survival. Some people are morally opposed to their products being distributed on sites like Otica (btw Rorrkorn just as a matter of fact Genesis and V5 are poorly supported over there, only 3 products I could find), for those that sell their products on sites like that and there are quite a few Renderosity Merchants over there, I say bloody good luck to you, you've got your heads screwed on and done your research.

Secondly as MrSparky mentioned unless you are prepared to diversify, use your skills in as many genres as you can ,you will struggle and as so often happens, become disillusioned, quit and in a few years time wonder whether that 10 grands worth of software and the expensive PC were anything more than the equivalent of the apple offered to Eve in the garden of Eden.

Is quality really the answer anymore? I think there is a fine line between quality and price, and sometimes the wrong one wins.

For the average modeller I reckon the chances of making a living from it are about as good as winning the $5000 scratch card every month.......

BTW I know the original post was specifically aimed at Vendors but we are all part of that big circle called the market.

Yea once we get technical, 3d artists do have the ability to make most peoples eyes glaze over in seconds :) You're also right some product types do tend to sell better than others. Theres also the element of luck as well, sometimes things just become zeisty. I've even had stuff thats not sold a single copy for months, then all of a sudden it's just rocketed. For the adult market, to be honest I don't know. While I don't have personal issues with that kinda stuff, some funding sources can, so if you're borrowing check that out. Also a trusim about diversification and most certainly with equipment. A 600-700 camera can easily lose 500 in 2 years. PC's even more. Quality and price is a harder one. My aim for quality and beyond low prices, which for sites which need to charge per mb or by item count can cause debate. It can also upset other artists who prefer higher prices over quality. Though your last line is the most important, it's vital to get and react to feedback. Not just customers either, but from the community as well.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

This is why I only make freebies. Well, that and I don't think my stuff is good enough to sell...

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

I'm in a hurry fixen to run out the door.

Any out fit ya make to sell ,
If they payed for the out fit then they have the right to use it as they see fit.

I know since V5 there are now 2 queens n country's.
I'll do my best to rock both with some of the wickect cool out fits they've ever seen.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - This is why I only make freebies. Well, that and I don't think my stuff is good enough to sell...

LOL That's pretty much where I'm at. I am not a vendor really, although on occasion I have put something up in the store, backgrounds, more for fun Than any thoughtif profit.Honestly I just wanted moremoney to spend here, and I got a little cash that i promptly spent in the store on stuff from the other amazing 3D Creators. I also post freebies for fun.

I thought some consumer advice might also be helpful. Strictly speaking as a consumer, (I spend about 1,500 a year) I have an enormous collection of stuff I have purchased and I am alwaysnlooking for the next best thing. I love new hair. I am always looking for fantasy adventure type outfits for V4/M4 and my new favorites Anastasia/ Tyler. Good Luck.

"People who attempt define what art is or is not, are not artists"---Luminescence

AetherDream - that sounds like a pretty good way to do it. Being a full timer is nice, the freedom is amazing, though as with all forms of self employment, you've gotta be dedicated, realistic and incredibly adaptive. Oh and be able to drink lots and lots of cola :)

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

I wounder if all the members at turbosquid ,cgtalk ,etc etc sites are all the same members here.

Anyways there's a lot of Cars ,Bikes at turbosquid.

Seems like Cars ,Bikes either look like toys
or
There realistic n bloody expensive.

Maybe people would appreciate a realist affordable Car ,Bike.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Just what I had in mind, and did RorrKonn.......

Uploaded tonight, hopefully will be live shortly.

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

Do you mean you uploaded it to the store, John?

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Quote - I wounder if all the members at turbosquid ,cgtalk ,etc etc sites are all the same members here.

Anyways there's a lot of Cars ,Bikes at turbosquid.

Seems like Cars ,Bikes either look like toys
or
There realistic n bloody expensive.

Maybe people would appreciate a realist affordable Car ,Bike.

How about a realistic free one? I finished my chopper. You can read about it here and decide if you want it. I am going to rig it only for the kickstand if it gets enough interest for me to bother posting it in the freebies section.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2863171

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

rokket :

There's sites that have front,back,side,top etc etc photos of real vehicles.
Don't have the link but somebody round here probably does.
or ya could just google vehicles.

If you spend weeks modeling a freebie.
What would you have to lose if ya spent a few more weeks modeling a realist vehicle for sell ?

If you have the drive,skills to model ya bike then you have the drive,skills to model a realist bike.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

rokket - the detail on that is amazing - that could easily be a product!

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

"If you spend weeks modeling a freebie.
What would you have to lose if ya spent a few more weeks modeling a realist vehicle for sell ?"

Considering this is a thread about commercial endeavors with 3d digital art, which in a sense is a form of mass production and communication after the fact, I'll return to observing.

It is a very nicely made model, Rokket.

That's an interesting question, RK. Perhaps the answer comes down to artistic temperament, identity, and goals. And this applies to all facets of making, whether renders, modeling, or simply discussion. Suppose it's very person specific. Totally. Theres also the question of will a freebie work as product. Like my recent stuff is often semi-political or word play seasonal toons, while fun and loads of people enjoy them I know they wouldn't sell. I've also not released 'product' for a few months, am working on a long winded one, but mostly I've felt that releasing freebies works better for me right now. Yea sure that can badly affects sales, but with arty things it's not always about the cash. It's also about what you what to say as an artist. Or even just have fun :)

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

count me in for the chopper rokket, gets my freestuff vote :)

My response was in response to

Rokket's quote
This is why I only make freebies. Well, that and I don't think my stuff is good enough to sell...

If Rottet's good enough to model this

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2863171

Then Rokkets good enough to model this ,If he spends a little more time on it.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=CCQ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=harley+davidson&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42261806,d.aWM&biw=1280&bih=615&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=QMkaUaPzJMSVrAGU74Bo#um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=HCQ&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=harley+babes&oq=harley+babes&gs_l=img.3...35923.37067.0.37572.5.5.0.0.0.0.122.449.4j1.5.0...0.0...1c.1.2.img.Sq_S5cTOI2A&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42261806,d.aWM&fp=dd887064c0876013&biw=1280&bih=615

I think part of it is
if you sell low end meshes then your make low end money.
If you sell High End Meshes then your Make High End Money.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

if you sell high end meshes that lots of people want to buy

then you may make high end money,

but if you sell high end meshes aimed at a small specific

market and hope to make large volumes of sales

then I think it's less likely that you will make the

sort of money you may aspire to. Just my take on it,

not definitive by any stretch but working on simple

economics of supply and demand........But it depends

on what your expectations and desires are.....

.I always think of that old adage, ,

"Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day,

teach a man to fish and you'll never sell him another fish" LOL

I just wanted to say thanks to all the contributors to this thread!! Great reading and information here on a variety of closely related topics.

Johnny - looking forward to seeing your vehicle!

Rokket - Really nice bike!

__________________________________________________________

My Rendo Gallery ........ My DAZ3D Gallery ........... My DA Gallery ......

This is an intresting thread and I wonder how Renderosity would feel about posting sales figures for everyone to see?

Anyway, there are so many factors that influence sales that it's impossible to just say "make a good product and it'll sell".

How do you know you've made s a good product? Sure, it may be technically good and have a lot of features or moving parts, but what you think is good may not "click" with the market.

Look at the best-selling products here to see what's selling the best (duh). Can you make products like that? And even if you can, will you (as a new merchant) be able to compete with the top-sellers who have been doing this for years and who have built up a reputation?

And that's the next issue: how do you, as a new merchant, market yourself and build up a reputation? You can't just make a model, upload it for sale, and expect it to make $2,000 for you.

As other people have said, you need to do your research. If you think you have the greatest idea in the world, look through the marketplace to see if anyone else has made one. If there is one already, can you make a better model? Will your model include more features or more textures?

What about your pricing? Will you try to sell low to get more sales? Or do you think your product is the best in the world and you'll charge $50 for it, even though no one will pay $50 for a Poser model?

Do you have the patience to survive the "low times", when your "best product ever" barely sales 2 copies in a month? What happens when you spend the next two months making another great product and it also only sells 2 copies? Again, the product may be great, but if you don't have any marketing, or a reputation, or previous customers, then you won't get any sales.

Yes, there are some people who make thousands of dollars a month, but there are also hundreds (or thousands) of merchants who barely make any money. Basically, your chance of making a lot of money is roughly the same as a high school kid becoming a professional athlete: sure, there are plenty of people who do it, but it takes a lot of talent, practice, and hard work.

This issue comes up every few months, so I suggest searching through the Renderosity forums for more ideas.

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

I can't tell anyone else what they should do or how they should do it.

I can just say what I think or how I see it.

Roman never liked me using cars scenario to compare TrueSpace R.I.P. to Lightwave.

But it's the best way I have to explain things.

If you could have a lamborghini or a chevy what car are you going to chose ?

If your stores a chevy store then ya make a chevy income.
and probably need some gov. to bail ya out of bankruptcy.

If your stores a lamborghini store then ya make a lamborghini income.
and ya winning the rat race.

Your store is your business your company your Empire.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - My response was in response to

Rokket's quote
This is why I only make freebies. Well, that and I don't think my stuff is good enough to sell...

If Rottet's good enough to model this

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2863171

Then Rokkets good enough to model this ,If he spends a little more time on it.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=CCQ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=harley+davidson&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42261806,d.aWM&biw=1280&bih=615&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=QMkaUaPzJMSVrAGU74Bo#um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=HCQ&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=harley+babes&oq=harley+babes&gs_l=img.3...35923.37067.0.37572.5.5.0.0.0.0.122.449.4j1.5.0...0.0...1c.1.2.img.Sq_S5cTOI2A&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42261806,d.aWM&fp=dd887064c0876013&biw=1280&bih=615

I think part of it is
if you sell low end meshes then your make low end money.
If you sell High End Meshes then your Make High End Money.

I can see your point. I did pretty much create this thing without a single reference picture. I could probably do a decent job of creating a few real/realistic choppers. But I would still not sell them. I got into this hobby to fill up my free time and keep me from drinking myself to death. I never once thought of it as a money making venture, even when I found out that it could be done. I had assumed that the content created for Poser was done by people employed by SM for that purpose. I know better now, but it doesn't change my view.

I know I can create a decent quality product if I decided to. I have almost mastered my software to the point that I can do pretty much anything I set my mind to do within the constraints of the programming. But I would lose the satisfaction that creation and completion brings me. If I was selling these things, they would never get released because I am never satisfied with them. Every time I look I can see a mistake here, or something that could have been done differently there. So I release freebies when I feel I have something I am proud of and want to share.

And just for the record, this whole bike took me about a week to produce once I got past the frame. The frame took the longest because I wasn't sure what I wanted out of it when I started.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

Quote - https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=CCQ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=harley+davidson&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42261806,d.aWM&biw=1280&bih=615&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=QMkaUaPzJMSVrAGU74Bo#um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=HCQ&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=harley+babes&oq=harley+babes&gs_l=img.3...35923.37067.0.37572.5.5.0.0.0.0.122.449.4j1.5.0...0.0...1c.1.2.img.Sq_S5cTOI2A&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42261806,d.aWM&fp=dd887064c0876013&biw=1280&bih=615

That is the single greatest link I have ever followed.

My self-build system - Vista 64 on a Kingston 240GB SSD, Asus P5Q Pro MB, Quad 6600 CPU, 8 Gb Geil Black Dragon Ram, CoolerMaster HAF932 full tower chassis, EVGA Geforce GTX 750Ti Superclocked 2 Gb, Coolermaster V8 CPU aircooler, Enermax 600W Modular PSU, 240Gb SSD, 2Tb HDD storage, 28" LCD monitor, and more red LEDs than a grown man really needs.....I built it in 2008 and can't afford a new one, yet.....!

My Software - Poser Pro 2012, Photoshop, Bryce 6 and Borderlands......"Catch a r--i---d-----e-----!"

Attached Link: sponsored by

LOL Now I am confused, befuddled, and bewildered, a google image search for the

two words "harley davidson" seems to be the motorcycle equivalent of the

second coming. I knew "Hippo Lighters" missed a trick there.........

product placement sneaks into the forums by the back door

in response to RorrKonn

*"*If your stores a lamborghini store then ya make a lamborghini income. and ya winning the rat race."

Thats great if you live in Monaco, or millionaire central, but if you live in down town anywhere where average Joe makes 12k

per year after taxes, are you still going to set up your

Lambo shop and go broke by month 2, or are you gonna

sell Chevys and make some money ?

Yeah, but, girls and motorbikes. Is there anything finer?

My Software - Poser Pro 2012, Photoshop, Bryce 6 and Borderlands......"Catch a r--i---d-----e-----!"

hmm Lemmee think, Lets see "American Chopper", dysfunctional family",

Jesse James, getting divorced, Hells Angels, Devils Disciples...........

nope sounds like a fun way to die to me. 150mph straight road to Hades :)

oh yes and the answer is "To be in Carolina in the morning" :)

Yeah, but GIRLS and BIKES. Screw the rest. We were all 18 once, unlike the angels (small "a") who never made it. Forgive me, Pauline, the greatest angel of them all.

My Software - Poser Pro 2012, Photoshop, Bryce 6 and Borderlands......"Catch a r--i---d-----e-----!"

Paul Francis : I'm glad you enjoyed the link.It was meant to be inspiring.

Saxon3d : I googled "Harley Babes".

Most TV shows or movies about Bikers I don't care much for.
One biker club will be nothing like another biker club.
Independents are each individuals.
TV,Movies are not necessarily real life.
People that don't live a bikers life alt not make TV Shows & Movies about
what they know nothing about.
The movie "Mask" with Cher ,About the only Biker movie I 1/2 way liked.
There are Harley sponsored rides that raise money for worthy causes.
Since you said Carolina guess you know about NASCAR & Richer Petty.
Richer Petty's boy Kyle goes on Harley sponsored rides that raise money for worthy causes.

My Lamborghini & Chevy scenario had nothing to do with Lamborghini or Chevy.
I would rather have a 1969 Chevy Camaro then a Lamborghini any day of the week & twice on Sunday.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

BSA Bantam - nuff said :)

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

Tiger Cub every day for me, Ariel Square 4 even :) or maybe a recon black shadow

Triton, or a clasic '68 Bonny in two-tone paint.

My Software - Poser Pro 2012, Photoshop, Bryce 6 and Borderlands......"Catch a r--i---d-----e-----!"

Big Wheel with a tricked out clicker.

Back to the topic...... enough motorcycles and babes :biggrin: A warning with the girls would have been nice, I thought the link would show me cool machines, but instead there something very distracting in those photographs as well, which made the machines go unnoticed.

Quote - This is an intresting thread and I wonder how Renderosity would feel about posting sales figures for everyone to see? Yes, there are some people who make thousands of dollars a month, but there are also hundreds (or thousands) of merchants who barely make any money. Basically, your chance of making a lot of money is roughly the same as a high school kid becoming a professional athlete: sure, there are plenty of people who do it, but it takes a lot of talent, practice, and hard work.

Even if Rendo would want to do so, the biggest hurdle would be the vendors. Some would be very unhappy and I'm sure most wouldn't want Rendo to this...... there are quite a few who like to keep up their appearance.

Indeed there are some of us who make a lot, but most make hardly anything and some in between, but that shouldn't keep anyone from trying. You just need to either have some exceptional, unique, or something that others aren't willing to try/do. We sure don't need another hundred pieces of clothing as the biker ladies are wearing, the stores are full of them.

One thing I've noticed lately at some of the stores though...... sales are down. How to know? The sex sells strategy is in place again. Lot's of promo's with ladies wearing next to nothing, while the whole product isn't about skin or the clothing at all. Some of the stores are screaming for attention and their products will not catch you eyes for sure, so other methods are used to get your attention. Some of the stores look more like erotic magazines these days then content stores. Some of the promo images are even absurd and the ladies are so out of place or so wearing the wrong clothes, if you can even call it clothes, for the scene or product being promoted.

So, that's another strategy as well..... if you've got a product that isn't (worth) selling, try using the good old sex sell marketing strategy.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

It's the squirrel in that new Dreamland Models and BB furniture set that really sold it to me ;)

It's practically naked...

I had to see that for myself, it's not just a naked squirrel ...... it's a naked squirrel in the mirror, outrageous :lol:

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I agree with your "Sex Sells" comments aeilkema, but it's not just here anymore, it's media wide, you can't even buy a cd, dvd, yoghurt, soft drink, or bar of chocolate without some random image of a haf nekkid woman or man flashing across your brains advert memory storage.

I guess it is just something we have to accept, and in some regards what potential vendors have to be prepared to do to break into the market place. Also it is IMHO, more than that, you have to look at the primary use of Poser and similar programs. Personally I'm just about saturated with nekkid vikkies posed badly, wearing the latest off the shelf skimpwear.But if that is what people buy Poser for, then creating revealing outfits and outrageous gravity defying, contortionist poses is always going to outsell any other content. Yes there will be the exceptions, usually from established vendors with a history of scene or non sexual content creation. It's all about what floats your boat and if you want to make money as in any context in life, it is about what you are prepared to do to make it happen.

Will the market ever change?, I'd be surprised, the only thing I think will happen is that with the massive improvements in web tutorials, free and easy to obtain modelling software, the market will become saturated with new vendors wanting to take a piece of the pie. I did a rough scan through the forum threads for recent months and there are literally hundreds of posts from different people with modelling/rigging/texturing questions. Will they all become vendors, unlikely, but with enough FREE content and an increase in it, the vendors share is going to reduce significantly, IMHO

Yes, especially if the free stuff is good quality. I looked back through the freebies section a couple days ago. I clicked on Poser Ready Props and just ran through several pages. The newest stuff that is on there is really good quality modelling; compared to the very early stuff that was posted there which isn't bad, but pales in comparison to some of the newer things that are totally free.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

Yes, the quality of free products sure is good these days, even better then it used to be. I've released a few items and I know they get downloaded a lot more then the items I do sell. A lot of Poser users hardly buy items, there is so much good stuff free, so I don't blame 'm. I do it myself, if I need something, I first check if it's free somewhere, if not, I start looking to buy it. If I can't find it, it's time to create it :thumbupboth:

I do think that a beginning vendor also needs to realise it's hard to break into this market and many of the stores' attitudes and policies sure don't help. Small vendors get punished for being small and big vendors get rewarded for being big. Even stores that claim they treat every vendor the same, still do give the ones selling the most extra benefits. Once a store brings in a 'big fish' they treat them differently then the small fish...... while the small fish need all the help they can get to grow. A lot of sales, promotions, advertising and other things are only available for the big fish, allowing them to grow fat, while the small fish starve.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Another good reason not to be a vendor.

And even if I decided that's what I wanted to do, I don't own a V-anything, and I look around at how much content is created and sold for that model and realize that I wouldn't have much of a chance.

Finding a good niche ain't easy. I can see that already. I am pretty decent at props, but I suck at making clothing. Anything beyond a superhero costume and I'm done. And there are plenty of temples and swords out there...

So where do you go?

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

Well Rokket, the cliched standard response seems to be "Find a gap in the market, do your research, market it, release the odd freebie extention pack" and Bingo you are rolling.

Personally I think that gap is so small, and the demand for it would be so minimal that it isn't worth the effort. The solution seems to me to be to take on the big boys at their own game, create the skimp wear with a few added bells and whistles, create the bizzare poses and do really amazing promo images. The promo image has to be the shop window, how many times have we walked past a store in the real world that has a badly outfitted tailors mannequin wearing the latest fashions and thought, urgh, that sucks, yet 6 doors away seen the same items in a modern well lit well thought out display and been swayed to purchase. I'm only coming at this from a purchasers point of view, but so many market place items "turn me off" by really bad promo images. I'm not disputing that the product may be good, but in this era of mass marketing, multiple product choices, we really do more often than not judge a book by its' cover.

If I were even to consider becoming a vendor I seriously think I would have to work twice as hard as in the past, a constant flow of freebie items to keep your exposure up, exemplary textures, pristine uv maps and gold standard customer support are in my mind the difference. Oh yes and not forgetting my latest product is now reduced in price to $3.99, is it all actually worth the effort?

aeilkema : What can I say ,Hope you enjoyed the distractions.

Half to say even news ankers & weather forecasters back in the day.old dudes.
Now all young and the girls look like there dressed for a night club.

If I see two stores .
One has High End Quality Merchandise.
the other just sells low end stuff.

I would expect the low end store is doing poorly and the High End Store is doing well.

Artist know the quality of there renders depends on the quality of there runtime.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - Well Rokket, the cliched standard response seems to be "Find a gap in the market, do your research, market it, release the odd freebie extention pack" and Bingo you are rolling.

Personally I think that gap is so small, and the demand for it would be so minimal that it isn't worth the effort. The solution seems to me to be to take on the big boys at their own game, create the skimp wear with a few added bells and whistles, create the bizzare poses and do really amazing promo images. The promo image has to be the shop window, how many times have we walked past a store in the real world that has a badly outfitted tailors mannequin wearing the latest fashions and thought, urgh, that sucks, yet 6 doors away seen the same items in a modern well lit well thought out display and been swayed to purchase. I'm only coming at this from a purchasers point of view, but so many market place items "turn me off" by really bad promo images. I'm not disputing that the product may be good, but in this era of mass marketing, multiple product choices, we really do more often than not judge a book by its' cover.

If I were even to consider becoming a vendor I seriously think I would have to work twice as hard as in the past, a constant flow of freebie items to keep your exposure up, exemplary textures, pristine uv maps and gold standard customer support are in my mind the difference. Oh yes and not forgetting my latest product is now reduced in price to $3.99, is it all actually worth the effort?

Yeah, I pretty much agree with that. The biggest reason, in reality that I don't decide to do this is what we were talking about earlier in this thread: can't do it full-time, you need another income to get by, especially nowadays. My current full time job is merchant seaman. I am on a ship on the ocean for almost 10 months out of the year. Not much down time while on the job, and internet access is sparse. So I continue to plug away at learning Wings 3D, starting to learn Blender, and still trying to wrap my head around the nodes in the material room.

Every great once in awhile, I put out something I want to share. And I do that by putting in the freebies section. I think I got into the Poser game years too late to want to do this for a living.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

At the risk of disagreeing with you Rorrkonn, you seem to be rehashing the Lamboghini dealer vs Chevy dealer argument, the truth is unless you are prepared to sell your Lambos for Chevy prices then it is in my opinion going to be a bleak year.

Yes, the High end store might do well, but at what cost, how many additonal hours modelling and texturing does he put in, compared to the "low end" stuff. So perecentage return must matter unless you accept the fact your working hours are freely given. I'd actually be interested to hear what your definition of high end vs low end is..... I'm not trying to be an ass here, but we've seen vendors who make really high quality products struggling in this current economically changing market, just as much as the "low end" vendor. I'm always interested in peoples perception of what is a good model as opposed to a bad one, if you are a vendor, the only bad model IMHO is the one that DOESN'T sell. No matter how high a quality of mesh, texture etc you put into it.

Although I agree, there's is the other side of the deal. I've got a choice as everyone else, give my content away or sell it. I mainly choose selling it. We all know it takes hours to model and texture, sometimes way too much time. In the beginning I only did props, but my items tend to be collections of props.

Here's how it started, years ago..... I made a set, all made of props, a tropical toon island. Didn't have the intention of selling it, just used it in some of my own images. I was contented by quite a lot of people asking me where they could get this set. So, I added it to CP for a small price. In the end it sold well, just under $500 and with all the extension I made for it, just over $1000. Was that worth it? Do we even need ot ask the question? At that same time, RDNA noticed my work and invited me to join. Stayed with them for about a year, but it just isn't my kind of store, now I'm only selling here (small collection) and the full collection at CP now.

I've looked at the total sales, all stores combined, and last year I sold well over $2500 and the revenue made seems to double each year. Could have released it all for free, but asking a small fee, $1.99 in return for the work I did seems fair to me. If you add all the small fees, it becomes a nice amount, encouraging enough to relese some more items. I know, compared to the big vendors, it's a little amount, but for me it's a nice amount of pocket money, which I would have missed out on if not going this route. If I'm honest, I would not have released as much if I would only do freebies, I would take it a lot slower, so in the end, everyone wins.

Quote - aeilkema : What can I say ,Hope you enjoyed the distractions.

In all honesty, who wouldn't? I'm not sure if my wife enjoyed me enyoing all of the distractions..... oops sorry dear, this link is not what I expected. Anyway not a problem, she was surfing the other night, looking for some information on a topic and ended up on a pornsite, so I guess my distraction was minor compared to that

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

my spell checker broke & I half to run out the door.
I can not say this CGI Artist is Hi end & this CGI Artist is low end.

if u want to make a $1000.00 a week
your mesh should look like you spent 160 hours working on it.
you alt to set your mesh beside any mesh in any gallery zBrush ,Max ,sites like cgtalk.
and your mesh alt to be as good or better then any mesh out there any where.

your $1000.00 a week mesh alt to be the greatest mesh in the universe.
and ya know it took some real talent to make it.

now if ya mesh looks like ya spent 2 hours making it with out any talent
is it worth $1000.00 a week or 10.00 a week ?

don't know why some think freebies help sells.
But I'm not plaining on making a lot of freebies.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

I don't think it's all merchandise quality.
I'm sure it's a lot of factors.
But I do think merchandise quality matters a lot.

I will never get why people at turbo try to sells unfinished meshes.
With no uvmaps & textuers for $ 100.00's.
Talk about a waist of time.

I also think it's important that you do not try to make a million in a day.
There's no such thing as get rich sceems ah,wait ,lotto. ya right.LMAO.
A store full of a 100 pages of crap is still crap.

Then ya get a crappy just trying to get rich fast reputation.
Here's ya coffin nails.for the grave ya just dug ya self.

Your customers are humans.Treat them like humans there treat you human.
Treat ya customers like a money mule and there kick you right out there life's.
With just a click.

The mouse is mightyer then the sword :rolleyes: ...worse pun ever...

Been around since 1998 I watch one of the biggest venders do this to there self's.
Such talent pissed on in the name of greed...what a waist...

Free stuff.It's a waist of my time down loading crappy free stuff.
Give me a wicked kool mesh that I can render a master piece with.
I'll gladly pay you a fair price.
Hows the saying go .you get out of it ,what you put in to it.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

I think you just peed off most of the freestuff contributors in here with the unreserved "Free stuff", it's a waist of my time downloading crappy free stuff" comment.

Actually, releasing freebies that are add-ons, textures is cunning marketing, a trail of bread crumbs to your market place

Quote - I think you just peed off most of the freestuff contributors in here with the unreserved "Free stuff", it's a waist of my time downloading crappy free stuff" comment.

Actually, releasing freebies that are add-ons, textures is cunning marketing, a trail of bread crumbs to your market place

I did not say "it's a waist of my time downloading free stuff"

I said "it's a waist of my time downloading crappy free stuff"

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

I'm not pissed off. To each his own.

Since I don't know what I would price anything I would attempt to sell, I am not sure how much I would have made. I know that freebies get downloaded at least 10 times more than stuff for sale, but I have 8 items in the freebies section here for a total of 2,694 downloads. Even if I only had 1/10 of that, and priced everything like I see priced here, that's a nice reward.

But I don't want to get into the other aspects of being a vendor. For instance, how much do these sites charge to allow you to use them to sell your stuff? I am assuming it's not a free thing. And I am assuming you have to pay whether you make a sale or not. That's the part I don't want to deal with. My wife won't let me buy stuff, which is why I got into modeling to begin with. I am sure she wouldn't want me to venture into this if a sale (especially in this economy) is not a sure thing.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

Oh, and my chopper has had 187 downloads already, and it's only been online for a few hours....

EDIT: Actually, it's closing in on the first 24 hours right now.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

Quote - I'm not pissed off. To each his own.

Since I don't know what I would price anything I would attempt to sell, I am not sure how much I would have made. I know that freebies get downloaded at least 10 times more than stuff for sale, but I have 8 items in the freebies section here for a total of 2,694 downloads. Even if I only had 1/10 of that, and priced everything like I see priced here, that's a nice reward.

But I don't want to get into the other aspects of being a vendor. For instance, how much do these sites charge to allow you to use them to sell your stuff? I am assuming it's not a free thing. And I am assuming you have to pay whether you make a sale or not. That's the part I don't want to deal with. My wife won't let me buy stuff, which is why I got into modeling to begin with. I am sure she wouldn't want me to venture into this if a sale (especially in this economy) is not a sure thing.

I did not say "it's a waist of my time downloading free stuff"
I said "it's a waist of my time downloading crappy free stuff"

If I'm wrong about this I'm sure some one will correct it.
It's free to ba a vender.
Most site get about 50% of ya sells.

So if you have a $1000.00 sells in Feb
I think
You Get $500.00
Renderosity Gets $500.00

If you have no sells in Feb
You Get $000.00
Renderosity Gets $000.00
But you do not pay any thing.I think.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

I knew there was a catch in there somewhere. I think I would prefer to pay a flat monthly fee. But anyhow, it doesn't matter. I won't do the vendor thing.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

I think you will find there are different rates of commission that Rendo charges, depending on I presume your volume of sales, or exclusivity etc etc. I've also had a good run as a freebie creator in a previous incarnation, number 1 freebie volume downloads and was in the top ten for quite some time. The only motivation for creating freebies is the feedback you get from the downloaders and the thought that you are giving something back to the community, very self sacrificing and some might think downright ridiculous. But show me the man who turns down good quality free stuff and I show you insanity. Oh bugger, I used the C word. Yes the community. If this isn't a community it's just a shop and every gallery submission is just a shop window for one product or another, I'd like to think it is more than that, sort of retrospective to when it started, but I'm probably naive and the artists community days are long gone and we have become just another dog eat dog collection of vendors and purchasers. That is why freestuff matters, no matter whether you think it pointless, a waste of your time etc etc, remember one very important thing, a huge majority of people originally found renderosity by surfing for freestuff, realised they had to join to download it and then spent the next week downloading everything lol...

Freestuff is the Pied Piper .

Most big stores do a 50/50 thing, smaller ones go as high as 70 seller/30 store cut. Which is fair enough as they have to cover costs. So not unreasonable. Personally think thats better than a flat fee. If you don't sell, you don't pay. But if money isn't the important thing, and you want to be recognised for your creations, then Saxon is right.. go the freebie route. That said you still need to create something nice - like Rokket has with his bike - to stand out. It's also a good way to learn about stuff. For example... what other artists want as well, whats likely to popular (or not), copyright/trademark issues, and the community is way more forgiving over a freebies quality/features than with a product. Indeed it's seems that most sellers here started with freebies and moved onto product. Seems to be the default career path :) I also agree with Saxon about the importance of freebies both for the community and the artist. Even when things change big time like the economy or site policys. It allows artists to still enjoy new stuff and for creators to get some exposure.

Pinky - you left the lens cap of your mind on again.

Ot, but... Rokket, I just downloaded your chopper freebie and I'm seeing alot of smoothing artifacts and ballooning. I noticed that you set alot of the edges on the .obj as hard in wings... This solution does not apply to poser smoothing properly. Next time use control edges combined with bevels (for better specular results) around the various hard edges of the model to avoid this problem and the resulting Poser behavior of the prop. I won't post an image, as anyone who has the chopper can discover this for themselves.

Otherwise, a very nicely constructed model.

After thinking about this thread for a few days, I remembered that I posted some blogs about this issue.

Advice for Online Vendors II: Some Selling Truths Exposed:

I’ve seen a number of articles in graphic artist magazines encouraging artists to sell their models. One of their main points is that, if you’re already making models for your own artwork, why not sell the models to other people? I’ve seen PDF tutorial e-books try to make the point that creating a best-selling product is almost as easy as just finding a niche and filling it. And I’ve also seen discussions in online forums where top-selling merchants talk about how easy it is to sell models and make hundreds (or thousands) of dollars every month. Well, if they’re doing it, so can you!

I don’t mean to scare anyone away from selling their digital products, but it seems that there’s still a lot missing from these discussions and e-books. I’ve been selling products for about 10 years now, so I thought it was past time to add my thoughts to this idea.

What exactly does it take to make a best-selling product and make thousands of dollars in sales every month? Keep reading...

And don't forget the customer service issues you'll have to face: Advice for Online Vendors: Sample Customer Questions:

Here’s a list of questions I’ve received over the years, with my sarcastic answer, which for obvious reasons, I never sent to the customer. I’ve also included a real answer in case some people don’t get the sarcastic one. In many cases, I’ve tried to retain the original grammar and spelling errors in the e-mail, though it’s not the customer’s exact e-mail message.

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

Oh ,so when I become the vender of the decade I'll Get 70% ,kool.
... well , we all have dreams ,OK ,OK I dream of winning the lotto also.
Good thing dreams don't require any thing that resembles sanity :huh: ...

Rokket : one thing is the software ya need to compete with top venders.
Never messed with Wings.
Blender is killer but just not as fast as app's like Modo,C4D.
Most top venders have app's like Modo,Max, Photoshop ,zBrush. etc etc.

Saxon3d : I would like to live in a free world.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - Ot, but... Rokket, I just downloaded your chopper freebie and I'm seeing alot of smoothing artifacts and ballooning. I noticed that you set alot of the edges on the .obj as hard in wings... This solution does not apply to poser smoothing properly. Next time use control edges combined with bevels (for better specular results) around the various hard edges of the model to avoid this problem and the resulting Poser behavior of the prop. I won't post an image, as anyone who has the chopper can discover this for themselves.

Otherwise, a very nicely constructed model.

Ahhh, thanks. I am still learning as I go. I will take this in to account on the next freebie I decide to put out.

And I didn't notice anything out of whack when I rendered it. Maybe I just don't know what to look for....

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

Rokket : When we all started modeling ,we had to learn the tools.easy part.
Then we had to learn good topology.the tricky part.
Getting a 100% quad mesh to subdivide the way you want takes talent.
The only way your going to get real talent is to
learn all you can and practice a lot.

There are some any app sites.
Post your wireframe mesh and ask is this good topology ?
On forums that know how to make good topology.

Learn from others that make good topology.
With WIP's they post on forums.

you can also check out topology on other meshes.
See different ways to make frames and parts.

Torbo have some wireframes .jpg's

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/pinarello-road-bike-rigged-3d-model/642164

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/chopper-bike-3d-model/634723

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - Rokket : When we all started modeling ,we had to learn the tools.easy part.
Then we had to learn good topology.the tricky part.
Getting a 100% quad mesh to subdivide the way you want takes talent.
The only way your going to get real talent is to
learn all you can and practice a lot.

There are some any app sites.
Post your wireframe mesh and ask is this good topology ?
On forums that know how to make good topology.

Learn from others that make good topology.
With WIP's they post on forums.

you can also check out topology on other meshes.
See different ways to make frames and parts.

Torbo have some wireframes .jpg's

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/pinarello-road-bike-rigged-3d-model/642164

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/chopper-bike-3d-model/634723

Thanks, I'll check that out.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

"Ahhh, thanks. I am still learning as I go. I will take this in to account on the next freebie I decide to put out. And I didn't notice anything out of whack when I rendered it. Maybe I just don't know what to look for...."

Same on that front, it took me a while to figure out to use control edges properly (without subDing the model too much)... still working on modeling more efficiently and conserving polys. Here's a comparative illustration of how smoothing subdivision works with and without control edges. Also see

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wings_3D/User_Manual/The_Nature_of_Subdivision_Modeling/Subdivision_and_Such

It's just one of the modeling considerations to keep in mind when making things for Poser's smoothing routine and hard edges in Poser :)

back on topic

Quote - "Ahhh, thanks. I am still learning as I go. I will take this in to account on the next freebie I decide to put out. And I didn't notice anything out of whack when I rendered it. Maybe I just don't know what to look for...."

Same on that front, it took me a while to figure out to use control edges properly (without subDing the model too much)... still working on modeling more efficiently and conserving polys. Here's a comparative illustration of how smoothing subdivision works with and without control edges. Also see

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wings_3D/User_Manual/The_Nature_of_Subdivision_Modeling/Subdivision_and_Such

It's just one of the modeling considerations too keep in mind when making things for Poser's smoothing routine and hard edges in Poser :)

back on topic

This is some of the things I was doing without even realizing I was doing it. So now that I know, I can make a conscious decision to use control edged and bevels, and do it smartly.

Thank you for that.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: O.T. --- For those of us doing this for a business, what's the best way to descr

aeilkema : What can I say ,Hope you enjoyed the distractions.