Yet again me.. :/ A side effect of my research on "genesisify"-ing non-genesis figures is the cloth adoption problem. I made a script to push figure morph into clothes, directly from poser, without the roundtrip of creating a new cr2 outside with an external tool or such. its just start script, select figure morph and its pushed into the clothes figure is wearing. conforming too. i'd welcome if someone would try it out and see if some cloths performs particulary well or bad, give an opinion about whether its useful or not. i think the existing best-in-class cloth morphers are still better. but if i could refine the technique to match their level is could be really useful and free or at least low cost. unfortunately my time is very limited so i cannot do much research personally. but if it would be judged useful i'd upload it somewhere

I would be glad to test the script.

I will see what I can do with it. Sounds very usefull.

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Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store ->   <-Freebies->

If you're still looking for testers then this is something I'd be keen to look at.

Free stuff @ https://poser.cobrablade.net/

I certainly want to help testing.
Sounds like a very good idea.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

please send mail to mail AT colorcurvature dot com

 

Finally!!! Been waiting on this for years..

My Renderosity Store

An earlier post made by me (now deleted) assumed you were talking about the m4/k4 project.

That said, I now have the new script and have been working with it.

You state there is more work to be done. Where? I'm getting morphs that I need moved into clothing items quite effectively?

If you could outline your concerns and known issues, I'd be happy to look for them, but this seems to be a working product!

TAKE MY MONEY DAMMIT!!!

 

Looking forward to this.

E-mail sent. :D

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Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?

Thank you for the opportunity to test this.

  I have tested it on a few figures and it works really well. There is some distortion in the hips on skirts that I don't see using MC.  But clothing fits much better  than when using MC on default settings.   Also a suggestion would be to have a distance offset such as the normal multiplier in your PoseMorphRefitter, to counteract minor poke-through in tight fitting clothing. 

Overall I'd say this is a must have, and I'd recommend releasing it, as it is definately useful and a real time saver.    

 

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Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?

thanks for the feedback. i am trying to make a ui for it currently, so that one can process multiple morphs ( or mainly, all that are actually in use )

skirts are a problem yes. they need special treatment. but maybe its as easy as ignoring the legs for the fitting and only fit against hip. i didnt try it yet.

it tries to detect the active morphs in the figure and pre selects fbms. multiple selection is possible.

Always more interested.

Adding the distance control parameter now.

For the record, I think there is a bug in the current version that will drag the cloth a bit towards the figure. That was for the K4 morpher... but normally it shouldnt scale. That might be the reason for some of the pokes you saw.

Ok, and a mass processing mode to push into all clothing that the figure is wearing. Thats less to click.

Ok: Distance Control, Mass processing, Option to ignore vertices that are too far away from the body (these get distorted much more easily than vertices near the body), option to ignore the legs during fitting (might help for skirts i do not know yet)

Given that all my latest figures are just a single FBM "away" from V3 or D3, this should be tremendous useful.

Please let me know where I can buy a copy once it's ready !

 

Sample of "prosaic" i fication of a cloth set

@Joe: if you want to try  mail at colorcurvature com

I hope the essential parts are stable. Maybe a falloff for distant vertices would be good to avoid hard breaks. Issues will come up anyway, software is never bug free, but the quicker we identify the issues the better...

 

Maybe also a force overwrite mode would be nice, in case one wants to try different settings and chose the best without having to reload and reconform the clothes

Is this anything like the shit system we have in DS, if it is then I hope you are happy with "sprayed on" clothing, because that is all your going to get with it.

some issues with complex erc, where the fbm dial controls other masters which control various hidden minimorph sets. thats a todo, but not today.

bejay: what is a spray cloth? i havnt used daz long time. you mean a drawn cloth that technically is a texture?

I think he means clothing vertex pushed left-right and up-down, instead of only in-out.

That is how I would read "sprayed". (Personal opinion here)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Looks like someone's not happy with the Genesis' Autofit tool. 

 ;-)

Of course if you convert from a skinny man to a buxom beauty or a bodybuilder, loose fitting cloth will look skin tight because mainly the "bumps" get pushed into the clothing.

The solution would be to first create a proxy morph that has the same volume as the original morph, but has a smoother shape. 

Automated cloth fitting is always a compromise.

If you want 100% perfect fitting clothes, you need to convert manually in ZBrush or another modeller.

"Sprayed on" is what you get from auto generated morph systems, they quite literally add the exact shape of the figures morph to the clothing, leaving you with clothing that, when morphed to match the figure, is so skin tight that it looks like it's been spray painted onto the figure like a second skin.

We've had them since DS3 and the morphs you get from them really aren't worth using.

Wrong tool Joe, auto-fit is a clothing converter, and it's no better or worse than any of the others, as I still have to clean up the converted mesh in my modeller no matter which one I use.

Have you tested this on the OSX version of Poser 2012?

OSX and Poser 9 would be very welcome.

Still to be clarified: ignore JCMs, or try to process them.

If yes, how to identify a particular JCM. A rotation dial can control multiple JCMs.

Hard to judge which local morph targets must fall in which group. One could try to group BY-NAME or BY-ERC code. And still, how to slave the new morph accordingly to the original JCM, that is not trivial. 

Maybe the cloth makers have experience on how to hande JCMs in a conform cloth?

i did a quick test this morning with a custom morph & it transferred great, both into a piece of clothing & into a conforming necklace i made.  thank you for letting me test this wonderful tool!

lost in the wilderness

Poser 13, Poser11,  Win7Pro 64, now with 24GB ram

ooh! i guess i can add my new render(only) machine!  Win11, I7, RTX 3060 12GB

 My Freebies

Me too!!! 

I am new to poser still, and the clothing has been kicking my a**. 

I bought quite a few outfits here at the Market, but haven't really been able to use them.  :(

Ok, I think its getting better.

I now group morph targets by  master param, morph name, and ERC signature.

If this combination is unique, I consider that a group of morph targets belonging together. Otherwise, if there are different master parameters and/or different ERC formulars controlling morph targets with the same name, I reject processing them.

I modified the UI more to display if there is confusing about a morph target. i

Here

Whaw, looking good... :-)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Here is transformation of "Barbarian" from Muscle Morphs Pack. "Barbarian" Parameter controls about 25 Partial Body Morphs at once. The tool detects the 25 PBMs and preselects them. Preselection will select all active PBMs. Morphs suspected as JCMs or morphs that affect only the head are not preselected.

 It cannot yet conform morphs that are not DELTA ADD 1.0 controlling their local targets.

Thats for JCMs. I'll try to conform JCMs too and depending on success it will work or not.

But basically I hope its done :-).

Ok. It seems one can copy the ValueOp from a template.

I'm done, I pushed my first JCM into a cloth.

So its complete now. Lets find the final bugs and call it done.

@Joe: Wanna join in?

Waiting for my test copy with baited breath!

Got it. Spent all morning testing.

AMAZING!

I haven't been able to make it fail yet! (And believe me... I've been using some pretty extreme morphs to test it!)

Very cool, Hannes!  I'm using v.06

However, I did get a strange distortion in the hip area of this item, the top from the PoserWorld Rebecca outfit.  This with Blackhearted's GND FBM.  There are no bones below the hip; the lower skirt section is fitted with adjustment morphs.  It was converted with V4 in the Zeroed position with all of the clothing conformed and magnetized.  I tried ignoring the legs, but it made it worse.

 

The elbow poke is likely due to the JCM...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

I'll send you v0.8 maybe that makes things a bit better.

Otherwise: Its always happening with GND FBM or its specific to this cloth?

It might relate to the settings used or the version fails to collect the active GND targets to recognize they belong together.

If you increase the value in the "do not move vertices..." that things that defaults to 0.02, does it get more "consistent"? Either consistently good or bad. The hard break might indicate that vertices nearer than 0.02 are being projected and vertices > 0.02 are being ignored. The distortion horizon could be vertices near 0.02

Skirts are catastrophy anyways :)

It's that top, Hannes, as shorter ones work well, although one jacket with buttons ends up with the buttons getting larger towards the bottom...

I'll keep my eyes open for the new version, but I need to go plow my driveway...

 

PS I tried increasing Do Not Move Verts from 0.02 to 0.3 (yes, 0.3) and it didn't make much difference.

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

v0.8 contains now an overwrite option. so one can try different settings to get quick feedback on how its working. furthermore, i hope it is convenient if one is using the poser morph brush on the base figure. then you can update the cloth after working on the figure with morph brush.

here i added another bulge to the figure (the poke). re-pushing Custom_Morph into cloth fixes the poke

p.s. best if you can find bugs with freebie items that i can also download :)

i'll have to browse some sharecg i guess.

overwrite is actually very cool. here default settings made a little poke. by experimenting with scaling the distance cloth-to-figure  one finds that pushing the cloth just a bit away from the figure fixes the poke. no need to redress it with a new .cr2, its just playing with the parameters and repushing

Is this figure specific, or will it work with any figure?

Basically any, but quality highly depends. I cannot handle dresses well at the moment.

Buttocks area also, its the same kind of problem. GND4 Morph changes the figure lots in the hip area. That makes distortions occur in the morph.

Ah well, I do not know if I can fix that easily. I need a technical way of pretending the gap between left and right leg didnt exist at all. Fill the gap somehow, with dummy geometry or such, something that is easier to match the cloth against.

Instead of making it fully automatic how about semi-automatic?

Make a morphable leg filler prop, that the user of the program has to position and has to fiddle with until the figure has no legs, like a mermaid.

This sounds like an extremely good solution to me! Will it work CC?

Here I compare some poser figures. See how they are all the "same" when scaled to the same shoulder height :

The problem is allways between the legs.

Blender also has a problem between the legs for the Shrinking of clothing.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

And here is the Blender solution I came up with. (click to enlarge)

Build a helper object.

Save out the figure and the helper object as a single object.
Do your shrinking to this single object.

I build the helper object in this demo to knee height,  to show the result above and below the knee.

The shape and position of the helper object is not critical and the same helper object can be used for allmost all figures. => Because most figures are similar as I showed above.

Above the knee the clothing shrinks normally
And below the knee (where there is no helper object, the deformations .

Hope this can be of some help.
Happy Posering
Best regards
Tony

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Thanks for you comments. I am however not sure if it could work that way, because a prop wouldnt morph with the figure carrying the cloth.

I have thought, maybe I can compute two or three vertex positions (one projection on left leg, one projection on right leg, one projection on hip) and make a weighted sum of these depending on the distance.  Also I have some idea for the calculation itself that I want to test.

Will keep you informed, but it will take a while. This week and the next will be busy.

OK, maybe this is complicated, but why couldn't it work like this?

Load figure - unset morph, fiddle with dials of mermaid prop until it fits. Spawn MT.

Set morph on figure. Refiddle mermaid, spawn MT on prop.

Now your prog should be able to morph the figure and the mermaid prop together.

Ya, I will think about.

However, there is otherwise good news. I did much better now with GND4.

One thing, I was able to eliminate the hard break where morphed vertices touched unmorphed ones (those out of morphing zone). Further, there is a bug in the versions up to day that will restrict the computation basis on one poly no matter what you type in the input field ;(

So, there is now a smooth translation from the morphed to the unmorphed zone

It can average the positions better (smooth)

And I replaced the fitting code with much simpler stuff, which is actually so simple that I didnt expect it could work at all. It might make tiny pokes sometimes but overall it seems a bit more resistant to distortions.

So hopefully there will be updates tomorrow. My code machine has no internet here.

@Vilters: A shrinking technique is a good thing. I just do not know how to build this into code. Especially, how to do it both on a morphed and unmorphed version of the figure so that the key positions are the same (e.g. the same vertex would be positioned in the center of the knee cap or similar). I was thinking, to set X positon of some vertices in all polys to 0, but thats also odd.

The problem, as usual is gonna be: The Script has to know if it has to go for pants or a dress. A checkbox could take care of that. /// More coding :-(

Good luck Sir.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Thinking more of it, I find the images you made comparing the figures fascinating. If we had a mannequin figure (morping mannequin so to say), that could be used to crossdress the figures easily.

Mannequin with V4 shape => Morph to Mannequin with other shape

Use as basis for cloth fit.

One still needs to care for the rig but its a beginning.

Yes, from the front they all look alike.

From the side view however, none is at true ZERO in "Z".

And the scale.
As you can see I had to scale them all to get to the same shoulder - arm height.

Going this way would have to incude the scaling of the different figures if you want your script to work cross figure.

No problem if you want to put morphs from a certain figure in a clothing that was designed for that particular figure.  The scaling would stay at 100%.

But is was an eye opener for me too that when scaled, they all looked the same from the front view.
Biggest difference is the head size. LOL.
Alysons arms that are shorter then the others.
And V4 with her bend feet.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Another idea. How about an injectable and removable morph for hips and legs that turns the target figure into a mermaid?

@Xen

You would have to build different morphs for each figure you want to support.

Then you need different support files for each figure.
And then, you come close to PhilC's WW.

I do not hink CC wanted to go this deep in his OP.
=> Copy figure morph to figure clothing.

But the "between the legs area" is a difficult one. (for skirts & dresses that is)

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

CC's inidial dummy geometry idea could work well. (As it does in Blender.)

IF!!!
All the figures where close to neutral in "Z".
Unfortunately, they are not.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

gnd4, 30 reference polys

Latest version seems to be working great.  Don't know what you changed, but I've now tried on a few different figures, with diffent body style morphs for each and script is working wonderfully.  No more scrunchied hips.  Some minor poke through on tight fits, but I can deal with that easily enough with either posers morph brush, or inflate/deflate tools with wardrobe wizard.    

Very happy camper here, thank you so much.

:D  

 

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Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?

You could try with increasing the cloth distance parameter. It has been found that the value of 100 is maybe not enough. Try with 101 or such. The new code is no longer as precise as before on tight fits. I think I'll add both computation options in the next version, so one can choose. Or it could be that some morph targets have not been automatically selected. I have a report of local morph targets not being automatically selected. I have to look into.

Quote - gnd4, 30 reference polys

 

That looks great, but I can't duplicate it; is that with v.08?  If so, what are your parameters?  I'm using 101% scale and 30 polys and ignoring legs.  Lowering distance to .007 improves it, but still not as nice as yours...

 

Oh, one other note; JCMS don't show up if that joint is not bent, but that may be a feature, as it would be tough to choose otherwise...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Yes. There is a bug in poser APIs (I think it is). You cannot handle ERC that is not in use. The API might return garbage. Not the same result? :( Left 0.02 as horizon or did you change that? Can you post or send me a screenshot?

note to freak f4... to make it wear m4 clothes. i get lots of pokes here ;( overdialing the morph seems to help though. the distance parameter seems to not help. it rather distorts more. with regard to f4's bending problems: you have to fix f4 joint scale smoothing, push morph into the cloth, and then use figure->copy joint zones and copy the fixed f4 joints into the cloth, then i hope it works. and enable "include scales" for the cloth to let it follow freak4 scaling.

Look'n Good...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Here's Arcebus' Jehanne.  Those are conforming stockings...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Here's AlfaSeed's Alice 5 wearing Predatron's Violet Outfit.  I needed to tweak the Suit's adjustment mophs in the collar and thighs as there was a bit of poke-through. However, there was some distortion of the buttons and of the striped pattern of the Jacket...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Nice :-) Also, the next version will create less pokes. I identified one reason for the poke-throughs and improved that.

I would like to test your script, I sent you a PM here on renderosity with my email.

Interesting.

Ok, I was busy with getting the Mixer ready. So is there any feedback about push morph to cloth? (Besides that its a bit slow). But regarding crashes or such, how is the situation? Does it make sense to upload it to marketplace?

For the suspenders product pushing the GND4 into it looks useful. But all cloth is different huh.

I'm using the script regularly, and have found no general issues. It has no more problems than the clothing tool in the Mixer package.  There are a few clothing items that are flakey, but I suspect it is more about how the original mesh was designed than about your tool. For my purposes, it is ready for Prime Time.

Can you suggest an item that is especially "flakey" ?

Don't even remember... will research it a bit and get back to you if I can find one.

:) okay. thanks ^^

I mean the results are in general not perfect thats clear. But with a few strokes of the morph brushes one can finish the results quite quickly. I tried with GND4 a bit and her nipples poke, but this just takes a second to fix with the pull brush.

That is the sort of results I get. I truly think you can document the way it does work and go to market with it. It's that useful as it stands!

all the custom morphs i've pushed have worked great.  it'd be interesting to see if this would work with your M4K4 script.

lost in the wilderness

Poser 13, Poser11,  Win7Pro 64, now with 24GB ram

ooh! i guess i can add my new render(only) machine!  Win11, I7, RTX 3060 12GB

 My Freebies

the m4k4 cloth fitter is a special thing, its also using the push morph to cloth with special settings but it also weightmaps the cloth and replaces the joint setup and so on. maybe I'll add some helper tools to use manually made morphs with the m4k4 mixer, but first, I will silently wait how people get along with the mixer as-is first.

but thinking about it, it could help to match clothing with the figure if the k4-mixed figure is further morphed. then these additional morphs can be added to the cloth, that would be worth a try