Quote - There's nothing to stop anyone making and selling something different from the herd but...

As many have learned, there's so much slutwear, underwear, swimwear etc because that's what sells.  Stray too far from the beaten track and you can count your sales on the fingers of no hands.  

No offense to you Sam as this is not directed at one person it is a general statement on my part.

 I am so sorry but if that is all that can sell then the vast mind of creativity has become simplistic and on the verge of death. What a shame that the only things that can be created and rendered in the 3d world are models with little to no clothing on a blank background posed with terrible, re-hashed, seen them once you've seen them all poses. Shameful maybe back in the day when I first started out in 3d art that could be true. 

But so much has advanced since then and still all that can be squeezed out are products that leave little to creation or to the imagination.  For me "It doesn't sell" is a cop out and a shame for those that are so talented can only manage droll and boring creations. If I only had a fraction of the knowledge and skill many of the content creators have I'd be in heaven. I used to think it was just shameful now it's just sad to see such a squandering of talent. If those in our past felt the same then men would have never conquered flight, break throughs in medicine becuase the risk was too much.

Seems as time has gone by I buy less and less and I know many others do as well. How much can those who create the same things as others, same clothing, same poses etc. loose before the message is received? I have read these forums for months and have seen this topic brought up more than often. Obiviously there are many, more than many, who want to see and would buy these, "It will not sell" items.  But I reckon it is so much easier playing with nudes and figures with little clothing on blank or blurred backgrounds then to sit down and create a beautiful, well thought out, complex piece of art. Truly we do need a "Make art" button.

No offense taken, mate.  I believe my statement was definitely a simplistic generalization but has more than a grain of truth.  Thing is, if you want to make and sell stuff to the standard of - for example - Stonemason, then you have to be really, really good.  It takes a long time and a lot of skill and hard work to produce something to that level of quality and detail.  Likewise, if you want to produce characters to the stanard of - for another example - Blackhearted, they you better be prepared to work your non gender specific bollocks off to get there.

For every item on sale here and elsewhere, I'll bet there are almost as many different reasons for wanting to sell.  For some people, the volume of sales may not be particularly important, nor the financial return.  I will say, though - and from experience - it's very disheartening to put time and effort into a product and see it sell next to nothing.  It happened to me twice and made me rethink my "strategy" (for want of a better word.  One outcome was that I dropped human textures entirely and started to concentrate on my robot character sets.  Shortly after that, I gave up on textures entirely and decided to learn modelling.  I'm now at the point where I reckon my stuff is good enough to sell, and once I have a few things sorted out here, I'll be uploading products for sale.

I know the direction I'm taking, I know what I need to put in my stuff and I know which unique selling points will (hopefully) make them "hot products".  And no, there won't be any slutwear, skimpies, "playwear", swimwear or fantasy stuff.  There will be no nekkid Vickies, no temples and nary a sword to be seen.

But... me whole point is, there are - and that's self evident - thousands of other people who decided to go in a different direction, for whatever reason.  Maybe some people do want to push their limits and boundaries but there are plenty of others who want to make NVITWAS and the derivatives thereof, until the proverbial cows come home.  Like it or not, sex sells.  

Please god no more breast morphs...

I have to admit that much of the stuff that I see in the adverts is tacky enough to be embarrassing enough that if I were a selling artist here I would be hesitant to tell my "non-cg" artist friends where I was distributing my Poser wares. Following the train of thought from the past few posts I think the accurate term would be hack-work (regardless of the talent that went into creating such). I've got no problem with sexy or even pornographic but being that so many things are possible with this medium there seems to be a disproportionate amount of regurgitation going on.

But... every large Poser related site is like this I guess?

Maybe the answer would be for you all to make your own content ?
If it sells ,Cool.
If not ,Ya still have what you wanted.
Can't lose.

Well, this isn't a topic of months duration, it's years. In fact, I think it has eclipsed Vickies bust size to be the all time Poser plaint. I'm pretty sure that anyone who wanted to get the message has gotten it; the response just isn't what the senders want. Taking a survey get a vendor or two to look (if it hasn't been done before). The results are pretty much a given - more everyday, more period, more male. I have to believe that vendors aren't stupid and that at least a few of them want to make money. Either they've tried and if sucessful, are milking that cow, or it hasn't been as profitable as the same old. If the latter, then maybe all of the folks who say they'd jump on it arent, maybe because it's not exactly what they want, or it's too expensive or the quality isn't up to their standards. Not buying isn't the answer IMO. You need to have as many people as possible buying that everyday item that isn't quite what they want or is a little pricey or isn't quite as nice as they'd like and actively thanking and encouraging the vendors to improve and create more. Form a club. Find one quality vendor, agree on an outfit and guarantee them sales. Get the ball rolling. Maybe it's a pipedream but so I think is the idea of starving them out. The 'No Buy Zone' is just too iffy.The message received may not be to make new things, but rather to just stop making anything.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that people are losing sales in the aggregate because again, people have been saying 'I don't buy anymore' for years. It may well be that the influx of new users who want the popular items makes up for the opt outs - I don't know. Yes, ease of creation is probably a factor. Creating those deep, complex well conceived works does require more talent and effort than many may possess or be willing to labor over. The big appeal of Poser is that you don't need an art degree or drawing or composition skills or ambitions or pretensions to artistic excellence. Some have any of all of those but I suspect they may be in the minority. For every suffering artiste, there are probably 10 folks just enjoying a diversion and having fun - like it or lump it as they say. Be very leery of the idea that a consensus in the Poser forum translates into a majority voting bloc at the cash register.

Oh, and slut shaming Vickie for what she wears isn't going to get you any more business burkas either. Half the new Poser users probably googled 'slut' looking for pr0n and ended up here. You're defeating yourselves :-)

Quote - Form a club. Find one quality vendor, agree on an outfit and guarantee them sales. Get the ball rolling.

This is the best idea I've seen posted in this regard. How would be make it happen? I mean, I can provide whatever logistics are needed here in the forum (I think!) I just have no idea how to go about it.

Somehow we need to get a few "I want this" products settled on, and then perhaps see if there's a vendor who would like x number of guaranteed sales. But how do we get this discussed and decided?

I'm all ears.

Well there's the Marketplace Wishing Well Forum which was probably set up for exactly this purpose, but it gets no traffic - about 5 lonely posts in as many months. If someone starts a request thread and the 'club' all post "yeah, I'd buy this" type responses, and IF the right vendor sees it, then indeed, the ball should roll.

'Guaranteed sales' are problematic though. I wouldn't want to make a promise to buy something before I've seen it, before I even know who is going to make it. What if the end result is crap or misses the mark completely? Once one vendor has made a crappy version of the requested item, it's unlikely that another vendor will release a better one.

Take hair for example, I'd love it if someone made a simple, loose-ish up-do, the kind a girl does almost unconsciously, to get her hair out of the way or so that it doesn't get wet. There are a gazillion updos for sale out there already, but few are well made and most fall into the 'air-hostess' category (too sleek) or the 'wedding updo' category (too fussy, too ringletty, too ornate, too big, etc). The original DAZ updo was probably the closest thing to it. I thought I had found something recently but it turned out to be a disappointment, it was sloppily modelled, poorly textured, morphs are barely usable etc. I'm still fixing it and there isn't much of the original mesh left. And it wasn't cheap.

If I requested a product, say, a 'Gibson Girl updo' (and thus promised to buy it) and that same vendor stepped up to make it I probably wouldn't even bother to download my purchase, it would be less frustrating to just settle down and make it from scratch myself. 

LOL, did Ike tell Patton how to take Bastogne? Seriously, there are more experienced organizer/planners than I, and a corresponding trail of bloody corpses from 'get the Poserites to cooperate' campaigns. Off the top of my head, obviously the first step is to get a list of committers - no idle punters allowed, people who are: 1. Seriously willing to lay down some green. 2. Willing to accept the fact that they may not get exactly what they want, at least at first. This is no overnight gratification thing. It's an effort to change the dynamic one piece at a time by showing vendors that there is a large enough group of people willing to support it - success will hopefully breed success. I don't know what the magic number is or what the price point would be, but if there aren't enough of at least 1 and 2 then you might as well hang it up. I should point out, hasn't this been discussed before and come to naught?

If you can get enough like minded individuals, then comes the hard part. First pick a figure. To be realistic, that is probably going to be the Goddess, V4 - you want to start out with the biggest bang possible. Others e.g. males, can follow if the thing actually takes off. It might be better to state the figure up front to avoid defections from 'I don't use figure Xers.' Next, the really hard part, picking an outfit. Everyday seems to be an often mentioned request. Period has too big a surface area, everyday is big enough in itself. Personally, I'd want Dick and Jane outfits for Matt and Maddie, but how popular is that going to be. Maybe narrow it down to general type first then get some example pictures for voting. Decide on features. Early on, you'll probably need to decide on conforming or dynamic. The latter may well rule out more people than the former I don't know. Do people want zipping zippers opening morphs etc. Do you really need a dozen different texture options, is it only going to work in the newest versions of Poser- decide.

With an outfit selected, last chance for the summer soldiers to pull up their pants and go home. Now select a vendor. If the thing looks viable, I'd probably let it be known amongst the vendors as early as possible. You're going to need at least a few who are even provisionally interested. With an outfit and features selected, send out a RFP with a detailed spec. and how many sales at what price you can deliver. I don't know if there's any way to take pre-orders at Rendo, but it would certainly help to have hard numbers on the money and not just 'Well Banya said he was gonna do it man, but then he bought weed instead.' Consultation with some vendors can probably give you an idea on a realistic price to start with. If it works, lather, rinse, repeat. My thoughts - others probably have better ideas.

I don't know about the more detailed logistics. Maybe start with a survey to gauge the level of interest, and let people know up front that it's a serious thing, that it's not a get exactly what you want thing but an experiment in cooperative collaboration between customers and vendors to influence the selection of clothing available. Pick a catchy name - I don't know if you'd get sued for using 'Project Runway.' Create a kitschy theme - 'Vickie Needs You - to help her expand her wardrobe, ' yada, yada, and maybe everyone class it up a bit and ixnay the slut meme - provocative, skimpy, daring, revealing - Roget's yer BFF. The main thing is that people will have to sublimate their detailed personal wants and delay their desire for immediate gratification in the service of the group and a longterm goal - a tall order even for a more uniform and docile group than the meowing herd here I'm afraid. All I can pledge is my belatedly discoverd $25 gift certificate, but I'll hold onto it for awhile and see what if anything transpires. Make it so. I'll be in my quarters giving 7 of 9 a back rub.

"I'll be in my quarters giving 7 of 9 a back rub."

...wouldn't you rather give Zev Bellringer a back rub?

"...wouldn't you rather give Zev Bellringer a back rub?"

Front rub more likely from the quick thumbs google brought up, but that would be crude and besides, a man's got to know his limitations so I'll stick with 7.

"I wouldn't want to make a promise to buy something before I've seen it, before I even know who is going to make it."

And therein lies the rub. By the time you peel off everyone who doesn't like this vendor or wants bunnies on the buckles instead of kittehs etc. etc. there won't be enough left to make a go of it. I'm not trying to discount your point, and I hear you on the quality, but the best you can do is solicit and see who bites. If the offer is attractive enough then I would hope that some talented people would apply. That might not mean the top names, but there are lesser lights out there who can produce quality and it would be a great opportunity for someone to make a name for themselves. You could try to set some minimum standards, but I don't know how that might work Again, not everyone is going to get exactly what they want and some people may be bitterly disappointsd. As you've pointed out that happens with the conventional purchasing route as well. To some extent, this would be a leap of faith, an effort to change something that isn't going to change otherwise. If it turns out to be crap then you haven't wasted any more than you're wasted before.

In effect, this would be a group commission - an opportunity for those who can't afford to commission anything and can't make their own to have some input on what gets made beyond the periodic forum kvetching about how the vendors don't listen to us. I'm not holding my breath though. I've predicted and seen too many of these edifices crumble to dust.

Could be a good idea but I am not sure on the timing, looks like a lot of cash will be heading SMs way in the next month or so.  Poser 10 or Poser Pro 2014 will see to that.

Quote - Could be a good idea but I am not sure on the timing, looks like a lot of cash will be heading SMs way in the next month or so.  Poser 10 or Poser Pro 2014 will see to that.

I agree.

Another factor is seeing what the new cloth fitting feature amounts to. This could have a major impact on the marketplace as well.

Mind you I am not sure how many people will be buying Poser 10 or Poser 2014 and still doing NVITWAS renders but I guess they would not be signing up anyway.

Well, as they say, Same time next year. And oddly enough I think that was an Alan Alda movie.

for contract jobs

the customer well send the artist a detailed colored drawing or a zBrush mesh.
of exactly what they want

so the contractor knows exactly what there getting
the CGI Artist knows exactly what there making

Rumor has it Poser 10 Pro 2014 will have Vector Maps !!!