Adobe have announced no Creative Suite 7, no more updates for CS6. The future will be Creative Cloud only with a MONTHLY fee of $29.99 per app or $49.99 for the whole suite. Discounts for enterprise/govt/education. Occasional internet access required.

Will this kill the hobby market for Adobe? (prob not a huge market) Anyone using it professionally?

Poser 11 , 180Gb in 8 Runtimes, PaintShop Pro 9
Windows 7 64 bit, Avast AV, Comodo Firewall
Intel Q9550 Quad Core cpu,  16Gb RAM, 250Gb + 250Gb +160Gb HD, GeForce GTX 1060

I think this is not so bad. For people who can not have the newest version each time , because very expensive.

And when you count together, this is not more expensive tha when you buy a full version.

I will still stay with Adobe.

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

I'm still using a really old version ;). Don't need all the fancy stuff and it gets the job done ;).

Seems a shame for ppl that are traveling and don't have internet and have to finish something...and a few other instances I can think of. Oh well...

Cloud computing isn't for me. If I give someone my money I want something hogging my hd space to show for it. LOL.

Laurie

"Occasional internet access required."

I assume that means you download it and it phones home periodically. I.m old fashioned enough to nix that idea. But, I'm not a professional with years of experience and who knows how much money invested in training, plugins etc. Those folks are probably going to jump through whatever hoops holds up for them. Hope they've got a bulletproof plan in place otherwise your wedding photos may be late when the photog's software decides it's no longer valid and the servers are down.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

I have been using Adobe Photoshop professionally and I'm already looking at migrating away from Adobe products because of this.  There are a number of reasons for that.

One, I want software I own, not stuff I rent.  I'm a small business and I really prefer software that is mine and won't suddenly stop working if I don't pay whatever monthly fee they decide to charge.

Two, this would be at least twice as expensive for me as a small business.  Fact is I never got EVERY upgrade that came out.  Often I skipped one and sometimes two versions because they just didn't offer that much new that I needed.  Adobe software is expensive (right along with Autodesk).  This new "cloud" thing means I would be forced into every upgrade or I can't work at all.  Either you pay that fee every month as a constant ongoing expense or you're out of business.  Again, as a small business, that's making my livelihood at risk in a way I find VERY uncomfortable.

Three, I don't always even download the updates.  Updates to Flash have been notorious for bugs.  When I'm working on a project, I generally skip updates to any of my software, whether that be Windows, Adobe, etc.  Why, because I don't need a new bug introduced in one of their updates causing me to lose productivity.  I normally finish projects, then update (and allow a day to deal with any possible bugs) before I begin new projects.  With this, you'll likely be getting updates whether you want them or not.

Four, I'm not always connected to the internet.  GASP, shocking I know but sometimes I unplug the thing.  Oh wait, now my photoshop may stop working if it can't phone home.

Five, With all the increases in hacker attacks on businesses, some of which seem very coordinated, something that makes me even more dependent on the internet and possibly vulnerable to that stuff just seems dumb.  Right now my vulnerablity is mostly limited to scam emails (and I've been seeing more and more of that this past year).  What happens when those hackers decide to take Adobe servers down for a week... do I just go on vacation because my software stops working because their servers are down?

Six, who says they won't up those fees.  This gives Adobe pretty much all the cards.  They decide they want to buy another company jet or want revenue for their next big project... you suddenly go from $49.95 a month to $59.95 a month and there is nothing you can do about it. You either pay or you're stuck.  Oh, and will that lovely new Internet Tax the US Sentate just voted for apply to that price?  You might want to budget another 6% to 10% extra on that monthly charge depending on where you live.

On the other hand my old copy of CS5 cost me nothing to continue to use, never charges fees and works fine whether the internet is up, down or bent sideways.

So looks to me like Adobe just handed Corel a golden opportunity to recapture a slice of the market.

I've never used Photoshop although I have been tempted once or twice but this news will be the end of any temptation for me.  Cloud Computing does not interest me and, luckily in one sense, I am old enough that I think I can get by without it.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

I think some people will move to alternatives.  Maybe be good to have a kind of illustrator/photoshop software all in one.

But I went the cloud (at least for the moment)

 

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

Is there not a bit of a misunderstanding here, in what some folk are posting??

The licensing model is subscription. But you still download the software and run it locally as far as I understand it.

Not sure what the internet connectivity requirements are... i.e. if the Creative Cloud licensed versions need to establish connection every launch or just periodically.

I'd have thought it's the latter though...?

Ah, here ya go:

http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/creativecloud/faq.html

See "How Creative Cloud Works" regards the internet connectivity requirements.

Maximum offline usage period is 180 days, basically. It'll ask you every 30 days within that time, to validate via an internet connection.

I've got a perpetual PS CS5 Ext license currently.

I like the fact that I could get affordable access to Adobe After Effects, with the new Cloud Model, for long enough to do a Poser animation project, for example... via fairly reasonable monthly payments (if I just opted for After Effects).

I am afraid I tend to be very sceptical and like to have my software loaded and under my control.  While a 30 day repeat with a maximum off line period of 180 days seems reasonalbe it still means they can change the rules anytime they like.  Btt like Microsoft updates on automatic....you are not in total control. 

Each to their own but I will take a raincheck thanks.  Nothing against Adobe my reaction would be the same for any piece of software from anyone.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

You're still basically renting to own software you never actually own.  Stop paying their fee's and you're stuck.  My copy of CS5 however will continue working for the next 10 years if I decide to keep using it, no fees required.  In the long run, if you use this software regularly it will end up costing you more, not less.   For that annual subscription you're looking at about $600 (and read the fine print, you can't buy just one month of service... its a FULL YEAR or nothing, if you cancel after one month, they still charge you for six months or $300).  Even for say just Photoshop, you're looking at a minimum of about $120 ($19.95 x 6 months), which is a little lest than what I paid for my copy of CS5 Ext (I paid $160, bought it at a discount) and I can use it all I want, whenever I want, for as long as I want.  You have to keep paying and paying and paying and if you stop, 30 days and your software stops working... period.  In two years, you'll have shelled out $480 for photoshop alone, I'll still have only paid $160 once.  And you'll still be stuck with a monthly subscription for software you're dependent on.  Sure, you get the lastest version, but do you know how much better CS6 was over CS5... why it was so improved a lot of people didn't bother upgrading.  Still sound so affordable?

Cloud stuff bascially screws you over, it gives Adobe all the control and leaves you dependent on their whims.  Whatever fee they decide to charge for it, whether or not you can afford that.  If you're a hobby artist, maybe you're okay with that.  If you're a freelance artist who depends on certain software to make your mortgage payment... not so much.

I'm sure if the community gets motivated enough we could make it worth someones while to create an OpenStudio along the lines of OpenOffice or LibreOffice.

Most of the parts are there. GIMP and InkScape give you a lot of the functionality of Photoshop and Inkscape. Scribus, give you a lot of the tools you'ld want from InDesign.

For AfterEffects and Premier, Blender3D is actually a really serious threat.

In fact... I was wondering if someone could just use Blenders core to eliminate Photoshop and Illustrator all together. Maybe even a simple set of Python scripts. By using Blender's tools and nodes, pretty much all your actions could make use of a GPU's power as well.

Blenders already built a brush infrastucture for their sculpting tools, which also challenges Zbrush nicely.

About the only thing I've never found is a FOSS work around for is Flash. There is simply no OpenSource animation software worth a damn.

If I ever hit the lottery, that is what my first public project will be. I'll hire programers to sift through the code, eliminate the duplications, and create a true OpenSource rival to Adobe's dominance.

Maybe someone with the skills could start a Kickstarter.

mo·nop·o·ly  [muh-nop-uh-lee]
noun, plural mo·nop·o·lies.
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market,
or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices

This is just one - the rest will follow. Microsoft has or will decide that the cloud version of Office will be the only way to get it etc. It's golden for the companies, they cut all the costs of manufacturing and distribution and they get a more predictable revenue stream. It also solves the problem of customers sticking with old versions and not being willing to pay for what may be upgrades of dubious value to many people. Depending on your perspective, there may be plusses for customers as well. People who are into the always connected to the cloud umbilical will take it as a natural development I suppose. I'm sure they've thought about outages and figure not that many people would be affected by a brief downtime just when their copy expired. They may have an embedded emergency code they can publish or something. Ironic though that they ended up with the CS2 debacle because the activation servers died. Personally, I think the whole clowd is a time bomb waiting for somebody to take it down in one massive cascading failure.

I don't know that Corel can do more than pick off a few people around the margins. Be interesting to visit some of the PS sites and see what the reaction is. I imagine Adobe has already gamed this out pretty well and decided that not that many will jump ship. Of course, Coca-Cola thought they had the new Coke thing planned out too so who knows. My ancient Corel PhotoPaint 8 still does most of what I need to do but I may have gotten a free/not free whatever CS2 so screw em.  

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote - Oh, and will that lovely new Internet Tax the US Sentate just voted for apply to that price?

Misperception: that isn't a new tax, and it's not an "Internet Tax". It's requiring people to pay the sales tax for items they should have already been paying (if their jurisdiction has a sales tax) by closing a loophole that was being exploited.

Basically, if you were buying, say, a chair in a state where the sales tax was 5% (or whatever), if you bought it at a local store you'd pay the price plus 5%. What some businesses were doing was selling that same chair over the net, even if they and the customer were in the same state, and not charging the 5%. So local businesses who weren't trying to get around the rules were being boned, and taxes that should have been collected weren't.

If the item you're buying wasn't already subject to a sales tax if you went to a store and bought it in person, there's no change. If you were buying from an online supplier not abusing loopholes, there's no change.

Quote - You're still basically renting to own software you never actually own.  Stop paying their fee's and you're stuck.  My copy of CS5 however will continue working for the next 10 years if I decide to keep using it, no fees required.  In the long run, if you use this software regularly it will end up costing you more, not less.   For that annual subscription you're looking at about $600 (and read the fine print, you can't buy just one month of service... its a FULL YEAR or nothing, if you cancel after one month, they still charge you for six months or $300).  Even for say just Photoshop, you're looking at a minimum of about $120 ($19.95 x 6 months), which is a little lest than what I paid for my copy of CS5 Ext (I paid $160, bought it at a discount) and I can use it all I want, whenever I want, for as long as I want.  You have to keep paying and paying and paying and if you stop, 30 days and your software stops working... period.  In two years, you'll have shelled out $480 for photoshop alone, I'll still have only paid $160 once.  And you'll still be stuck with a monthly subscription for software you're dependent on.  Sure, you get the lastest version, but do you know how much better CS6 was over CS5... why it was so improved a lot of people didn't bother upgrading.  Still sound so affordable?

Cloud stuff bascially screws you over, it gives Adobe all the control and leaves you dependent on their whims.  Whatever fee they decide to charge for it, whether or not you can afford that.  If you're a hobby artist, maybe you're okay with that.  If you're a freelance artist who depends on certain software to make your mortgage payment... not so much.

 

AGREED!!

Regards, Michael

My DeviantArt page

Quote - I'm sure if the community gets motivated enough we could make it worth someones while to create an OpenStudio along the lines of OpenOffice or LibreOffice.

Most of the parts are there. GIMP and InkScape give you a lot of the functionality of Photoshop and Inkscape. Scribus, give you a lot of the tools you'ld want from InDesign.

At this point I'd love to see that happen.  I'm going to be setting aside time tomorrow to look at trial versions of Corel and Xara software and I may also look at GIMP.   I'm not familuar with Scribus but it sounds like something else I should take a look at, thanks for mentioning it.

Quote - For AfterEffects and Premier, Blender3D is actually a really serious threat.

In fact... I was wondering if someone could just use Blenders core to eliminate Photoshop and Illustrator all together. Maybe even a simple set of Python scripts. By using Blender's tools and nodes, pretty much all your actions could make use of a GPU's power as well.

Blenders already built a brush infrastucture for their sculpting tools, which also challenges Zbrush nicely.

I like Blender, ironically I was using those brush tools just yesterday for a project I'm working on (and still need to finish).  I had planned on eventually getting 3D Studio Max when I could afford it, but with the way Blender keeps improving I may not.  Many of the same tools are there, they're just not as easy to find.

Quote - If I ever hit the lottery, that is what my first public project will be. I'll hire programers to sift through the code, eliminate the duplications, and create a true OpenSource rival to Adobe's dominance.

Maybe someone with the skills could start a Kickstarter.

You'd get my vote for that.

I am sure cloud computing is the way that most software will go which is why I am happy that I have enough software that should see me through my twilight years. I recently read a book called "The Shape of S**t to come" (accept there were no *s in the title.  It was by Alan Mc Arthur and I found it both funny and scary at the same time, the one thing it did not do was make me wish I was young again with all this future to look forward to.

 

To keep this in context I say this as a person that has no Social Network to speak of and see the mobile phone as today's equivilent of a ball and chain, the only difference being you put this on on yourself.......except I haven't.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - I like Blender, ironically I was using those brush tools just yesterday for a project I'm working on (and still need to finish).  I had planned on eventually getting 3D Studio Max when I could afford it, but with the way Blender keeps improving I may not. Many of the same tools are there, they're just not as easy to find.

I've been using Lightwave since my Amiga days. Unless someone is paying you to use any suite, IMHO you should stick to Blender.

I've been forcing myself to learn Blender because I know it's not going anywhere. No subscription garbage, Upgrades have been nothing short of incredible. The code it out there and some one will always pick it up and improve it even if the current infrastructure somehow collapses entirely.

Quote -> Quote - Maybe someone with the skills could start a Kickstarter.

You'd get my vote for that.

Sadly I don't even have the programming skills to even supervise the project.  But I would totally sign on for it.

mo·nop·o·ly  [muh-nop-uh-lee]
noun, plural mo·nop·o·lies.
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market,
or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices

Agreed.  Not a big fan of this.

I don't want my documents, nor work, on the cloud.

I don't want to rent software by the month.

The cloud is fine, IMHO, for things like a music catalog (Amazon's MP3 implementation), product delivery and the like.

But cloud software, cloud OS, etc.  You can keep that.  I'd gladly go with Gimp/Corel/etc.

.

Quote - Agreed.  Not a big fan of this.

I don't want my documents, nor work, on the cloud.

I don't want to rent software by the month.

The cloud is fine, IMHO, for things like a music catalog (Amazon's MP3 implementation), product delivery and the like.

But cloud software, cloud OS, etc.  You can keep that.  I'd gladly go with Gimp/Corel/etc.

 

Your right ideal for music and anything that is a 'nice to have' rather then a real must, because when you 'must' have something you can be sure at that point it won't be there.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

I actually love Google Drive, and Amazon Drive. I used to use my own Web space as portable file storage. I'm not tottaly anti-cloud.

If you've ever moved from one android phone to another, Google's cloud makes life SO MUCH EASIER!!!

But I don't want my software in the cloud. I don't want a cloud I can't back up locally.

mo·nop·o·ly  [muh-nop-uh-lee]
noun, plural mo·nop·o·lies.
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market,
or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices

I recently got the Full CS2 Suite from Adobe (free download for CS2 customers that can no longer activate their copy because the CS2 validation server is no longer online) that doesn't expire.  Even though it is 32-bit, it does more than I'll ever use.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Quote - > Quote - Oh, and will that lovely new Internet Tax the US Sentate just voted for apply to that price?

Misperception: that isn't a new tax, and it's not an "Internet Tax". It's requiring people to pay the sales tax for items they should have already been paying (if their jurisdiction has a sales tax) by closing a loophole that was being exploited.

Basically, if you were buying, say, a chair in a state where the sales tax was 5% (or whatever), if you bought it at a local store you'd pay the price plus 5%. What some businesses were doing was selling that same chair over the net, even if they and the customer were in the same state, and not charging the 5%. So local businesses who weren't trying to get around the rules were being boned, and taxes that should have been collected weren't.

If the item you're buying wasn't already subject to a sales tax if you went to a store and bought it in person, there's no change. If you were buying from an online supplier not abusing loopholes, there's no change.

 

This is inacurate. 

No sales tax on internet purchases was done deliberately in order to boost internet sales back in the 90s. There was no loopholes being exploited. If you're purchasing from a retailer that is in your own state, internet or in person doesn't matter, you have to pay sales tax. You only get out of paying sales tax if the place you're buying from does not have a presence in your state. 

Certain huge corporations have made deals with different states that prevent them from having to collect sales tax in that state. 

Example: Amazon started building a distribution center in SC in 2011, but then stopped when they were told they had to collect sales tax on SC customers. They had made deals with Governors in other states to not collect sales tax, but SC wouldn't agree to that. But SC wanted the jobs that Amazon was offering. So it was an argument for quite a while, until finally SC caved with a compromise that Amazon could go tax-free for a certain period of time. I want to say 5 years but not sure on that. Once that agreement was reached, Amazon continued building their distribution center. 

The internet sales tax bill(s) that are currently being debated in congress are about making ALL internet purchases taxable, whether the company resides in your state or not makes no difference. So yes, there will definitely be a change if you're a regular internet shopper. 

As for the cloud and software, get used to it. All major software will be moving to the cloud within the next few years. Most already have begun. This mostly benefits the companies, not the consumers. The cloud allows them to finally have full control over DRM. No more pirated photoshop, or ms office, etc. If you don't have an internet connection, you won't use it. It also benefits them in that more people will be able to afford to use their software, because 20 or 30 bucks a month seems much more affordable to the average sheeple than 300 or 1500 all at once. 

I predict music and movies will go the same way within the next 5 to 10 years or less. If you aren't connected to the cloud, you won't be watching anything or listening to any tunes. At least not legally.

 

~Shane

 

Here, here! No cloud and no renting of software for me either, that's just begging for trouble when the servers go kablooey on their own -- which eventually they will -- or some S.O.B. decides to take 'em out for "teh LOLz" or whatever. Upgrade to every version? Ha! Only this past year did I finally go from Photoshop Elements to CS2, which works fine on my Windows 7 machine, thank you very much Adobe.

Microsoft Office going cloud only too y'say? Won't bother me as long as I still have my Office 2000 and 2003 discs, which also work just fine. In fact I hated the last version of MSWord so much I got rid of it and went back to Word 2002, which still does everything I want it to do most of the time. That's more than I can say for its latest incarnation. 

In short, clouds are only good if you wanna get rained on. Otherwise they ruin your whole day. ;-)

Here, here! No cloud and no renting of software for me either, that's just begging for trouble when the servers go kablooey on their own -- which eventually they will -- or some S.O.B. decides to take 'em out for "teh LOLz" or whatever. Upgrade to every version? Ha! Only this past year did I finally go from Photoshop Elements to CS2, which works fine on my Windows 7 machine, thank you very much Adobe.

Microsoft Office going cloud only too y'say? Won't bother me as long as I still have my Office 2000 and 2003 discs, which also work just fine. In fact I hated the last version of MSWord so much I got rid of it and went back to Word 2002, which still does everything I want it to do most of the time. That's more than I can say for its latest incarnation. 

In short, clouds are only good if you wanna get rained on. Otherwise they ruin your whole day. ;-)

Just so nice to know I do not 'have to get used to it' as I can manage without the cloud in the same way I can live without farcebook and twatter.  I never had them and so I will never miss them.  Sure I accept I may well soon be in the minority but I will in a very happy content minority.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

"Cloud" software is the worst idea ever. Why complicate the pipeline between your computer and functionality? Hard drives work just fine, and have for quite some time.

Any software business or game platform that goes to this "cloud only" model will lose my business at least.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Paloth - simple, because Adobe, Microsoft and others can't profit off that pipeline between your computer and functionality.  So even though 2 TB drives are now becoming common (as well as cheap), they tell you you really need to store your data online... and pay the privilege.   What's even crazier is the number of people who fall for it.   Shane may be right, this may be how the future goes, at least with major software companies.  Doesn't mean we have to accept it quietly.

My suggestion, drop a note to CNN or whatever news network you watch.  They get a few dozen emails from disgruntled former Adobe customers they may take an interest.  If this became a PR nightmare for Adobe, they likely back off... particularly if it impacts sales and their stock value because ultimately for Adobe (and others) that's what this is all really about... money.

They'll claim its about fighting piracy, but that's bull.  Yes, piracy is a problem for all of us.  But Adobe made $4.1 BILLION last year... you'll excuse me if I have trouble shedding any tears for them.

Computers and software are advancing to the cloud at such a rate that it will be virtually impossible for anyone to not be connected to it eventually, unless you intend to just stop functioning on a tech or even entertainment level completely. Otherwise you won't have a choice.

To not do so would be the equivalent of someone still trying to do all their work and productivity today in 2013 on a 1993 windows 3.1-based machine. Only it won't take 20 years, or even 10 years. Computer technology compounds in advancement for every year that passes. 

MS Office has already changed their licensing so that it virtually forces you to subscribe to their cloud system if you want to continue using their software. I'd wager that by windows 9 or 10's release, the OS itself will be cloud based. 

The cloud has been cited as revolutionizing the internet the same way that the internet revolutionized computers, shopping, communication, etc. It's cost-effective, virtually fool-proof (unless there's a global power outage) and puts companies in complete control of who uses their software, how they use it and for what purposes.

It's not exactly a new technology. It mimics the way online games have been played for years. An MMO still requires a core application (client software) installed on your personal device, but that application is useless without access to the servers that the core software is hosted on. There is no way to pirate it, because you never actually have access to all the features you would need access to.

Music and movies are going the same route. Netflix, roku, genie, etc are all examples of cloud-based music, movies, tv series and even news. So much so that it's beginning to affect the cable companies in terms of pricing. Fewer and fewer people are subscribng to premium channels because they can get netflix and similar services so much cheaper. As a result, cable and satelite companies are having to charge their remaining customers more to off-set the costs and losses. It won't be much longer before subscribing to channels like HBO and Showtime will be a thing of the past, or just won't be affordable for the average joe, especially when there are so many other alternatives. And again, Netflix, roku, etc, go a long way to preventing piracy. 

Hard drives are faulty and outdated. They have always been the weakest link in any computer due to their very design, and are responsible for most crashes and data loss. With cloud computing you are 99.9% guranteed no loss of data unless there is a deliberate system-wide server wipe. 

As much as I like the concept of the cloud, i hate the idea of being forced into it. But if you intend to continue functioning on any technologically relevant level - and face it, most people here likely do - then you don't have a choice. You can put it off as long as you can get away with it, but eventually you'll assimilate. 

It's like the borg.

 

~Shane

one of my bandmates works at Adobe. We were informed by him about a month ago of the cloud thing so we could get software before it turned into cloudware. His take on it was that it was indeed a money thing with Adobe's investors.

W10, Ryzen 5 1600x, 16Gb,RTX2060Super+GTX980, PP11, 11.3.740

The cloud is next generation: It is for our children, who will know no better (a bit like the EU).

We should just keep our corel 11 and photoshop discs dry and backed up and we will be fine. The time we should worry is if/when SM make poser 13 cloud only.

Quote - Computers and software are advancing to the cloud at such a rate that it will be virtually impossible for anyone to not be connected to it eventually, unless you intend to just stop functioning on a tech or even entertainment level completely. Otherwise you won't have a choice.

To not do so would be the equivalent of someone still trying to do all their work and productivity today in 2013 on a 1993 windows 3.1-based machine. Only it won't take 20 years, or even 10 years. Computer technology compounds in advancement for every year that passes. 

MS Office has already changed their licensing so that it virtually forces you to subscribe to their cloud system if you want to continue using their software. I'd wager that by windows 9 or 10's release, the OS itself will be cloud based. 

The cloud has been cited as revolutionizing the internet the same way that the internet revolutionized computers, shopping, communication, etc. It's cost-effective, virtually fool-proof (unless there's a global power outage) and puts companies in complete control of who uses their software, how they use it and for what purposes.

It's not exactly a new technology. It mimics the way online games have been played for years. An MMO still requires a core application (client software) installed on your personal device, but that application is useless without access to the servers that the core software is hosted on. There is no way to pirate it, because you never actually have access to all the features you would need access to.

Music and movies are going the same route. Netflix, roku, genie, etc are all examples of cloud-based music, movies, tv series and even news. So much so that it's beginning to affect the cable companies in terms of pricing. Fewer and fewer people are subscribng to premium channels because they can get netflix and similar services so much cheaper. As a result, cable and satelite companies are having to charge their remaining customers more to off-set the costs and losses. It won't be much longer before subscribing to channels like HBO and Showtime will be a thing of the past, or just won't be affordable for the average joe, especially when there are so many other alternatives. And again, Netflix, roku, etc, go a long way to preventing piracy. 

Hard drives are faulty and outdated. They have always been the weakest link in any computer due to their very design, and are responsible for most crashes and data loss. With cloud computing you are 99.9% guranteed no loss of data unless there is a deliberate system-wide server wipe. 

As much as I like the concept of the cloud, i hate the idea of being forced into it. But if you intend to continue functioning on any technologically relevant level - and face it, most people here likely do - then you don't have a choice. You can put it off as long as you can get away with it, but eventually you'll assimilate. 

It's like the borg.

 

~Shane

 

As long as I (like most of the US) have a shitty connection to the "cloud", I most certainly will not be moving data, (or anything else for that matter) back to the mainframe.

Multiple cloud services have already gone under.  Are you really suggesting that cloud servers will be "too big to fail?"  I have seen too many have too many issues (I am talking about you, Apple.)

The weak link isn't hard drives - it is my Internet Service Provider.  And they have absolutely no incentive to increase the bandwidth to make cloud computing cost-effective for the sheep at the end of the cable.  In most places, they have a monopoly.

"Cost effective?" For who?  For the companies, perhaps, but not the end user.  Adobe is giving their customers a reason to relook their their tools.  That is NEVER a good idea when you already have brand loyalty.

Cost effectiveness is ALWAYS for the companies, NEVER for the consumer. It never has been, why should it be now?

If you're using cable internet and not still on DSL or dial-up, then your shitty connection is entirely the decision of your ISP. I learned this from my ex who was a tech at a major cable company. Bandwidth is determined entirely by the company. It's just another way for them to charge some people more than others. That's why one city's highest bandwidth can be 10 times slower or faster than a city 2 hours away. 

You don't have to be on facebook or twitter or any other social networking site to be in the cloud. If you use a cell phone you're already part of the cloud. 

Apple's cloud isn't going anywhere, and neither is Googles. Those are the two at the head of the machine. If smaller cloud services fail that just gives G and A more steam. 

 

~Shane

I really am from another age, an age when we tried to look different and to be different.  I will never see the sense in wearing the same clothes, with the same logo as millions of others.  I do not understand why so many pay so much so that their phone, their tablet and their laptop have a fruit on it. 

Already I do not function on a Technological Level, not using the cloud just sends me further underground.  Strange thing is I don't feel alone or lonely, I don't think I am missing something.  People still tell me I have to conform but you'd think after nearly 60 years that they would have got the message, I have never conformed and telling me HAVE to do anything is the kiss of death for any interest I have. 

Much as I like the Internet I could actually survive without it.  In fact some weekends and evenings I still go to the park for a walk with my wife not worrying if I am missing something on TV, or worrying about what I might be missing on farcebook (or what someone might be saying about me).  Of course I would never know anyway as I don't do FarceBook.....now who was it that said ignorance is bliss?

 

Oh and I bet in ten years time I will still be able to write a letter in OpenOffice but will there be any way to post it?

 

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

I like the concept of Cloud.
Want a one year deal where the cost of the lease will not be rased during that year.
Want the 3D High End app's to follow ,now ,now ,right now ,can't wait.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

What about security?  Does this mean all the work I do can be seen, copied, and used by Adobe like it is with Yahoo and Google.  Sounds bad... I would hate to finish a great work of art just to see it posted in an Adobe ad without my permission.

Be sure to read the fine print on the license agreement!

This is such a bad idea. A server goes down somewhere and buisnesses all over come to a screeching halt because they can't connect to the software because they are being routed through that sever. Rural Businesses, who are stuck with either dialup (prohibitally slow) or satalite (prohibitally expensive) because nobody things they'll be enough business to bring high speed to these areas, will be out of business. I know right now photoshop is just calling in, but that won't last and won't be that way for other software.

Who says this will stop hackers? There are passwords and crack for software now, why would anyone think they won't continue to find ways around the security measures?

The conspirisy theorist in me says and if the government gets mad at it's people or a group of them some political enimies perhaps, then it wouldn't take much to cripple them.

And who can afford to pay 20-50 bucks a month to use the someware they have? Maybe big businesses but that's it. I think I'll be needing to find a new pass time besides computers then.

---

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

Quote - You're still basically renting to own software you never actually own.

 

Man, you need to read the EULA of your software - you only ever are buying the license to use the software...even your Poser software isn't your's. You just paid SM to use it within their guidelines: it is still their software and you don't own it. This goes for the majority of commercial software.

I like the the subscription model Adobe are offering. It makes an expensive software affordable to many who couldn't afford it before...for many like myself (still using CS4), I found it overpriced in general and begrugged having to buy it, but looking at the prices with the subscription model...it's tempting. I'm not sure this model will work for all software, but it makes expensive software usage easier to swallow.

 

Website: The 3D Scene - Returning Soon!

Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

YouTube Channel

--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

I just have to say I hate the "cloud" applications, I hope this will not be the future.

---

adh3d website

Quote - There is no way to pirate it, because you never actually have access to all the features you would need access to.

That's not true.

While it isn't the same as pirating most software, it can, and has been done. Activision/Blizzard have to deal with "private" servers, which are not run by the company, and which allow people access to the game without the standard subscription cost.

And apparently, it's only getting easier to do.

________________________________________________________________

If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.

Hosting emulations of an MMO isn't quite the same as pirating software like photoshop. 

The emulation still has to be modified and will not function the same or have access to all the same code that exists on Blizzard's servers. 

The software itself still requires access to a host server in order to function. Blizard allows private servers to exist because it doesn't benefit them enough to chase them all down, but if they wanted to they would.

Adobe or Microsoft, etc, are not going to allow someone to set up private servers hosting their applications for free like game companies do.  

Plus, in regards to Blizard, you're talking about a game engine and server technology that's over 10 years old.

But the concept is the same.

The company can make any components of the software accessible only via access to the cloud. If they wanted, they could make it so that all you get on your desktop is a launcher and everything else is run entirely server-side. That's the whole point of the cloud, after all.

At this point most companies are easing their clients into it. Autodesk, for example, still sells full versions of their software with optional cloud subscriptions (Maya 2014 just launched). You still have to buy a full license to the software at about $4K plus the monthly or annual subscription fees in order to get all the features they offer via updates, tech support, etc. 

 

~Shane

Quote - Man, you need to read the EULA of your software - you only ever are buying the license to use the software...even your Poser software isn't your's.

Seriously, you're going to argue a symantec difference regarding buying a license?  Yeah, of course you don't own the copyright to the software itself... we all know that.

I don't like the basic concept of the cloud, it doesn't make any sense if you think about it.  It's just adding another few levels of processing between the user and the software, and if everything was in the cloud, most people would have monthly bills so high they couldn't afford it.  Take that forty or fifty dollars Adobe is talking, and multiply that by the number of programs you have and use.  It won't take long and a month's fees will equal a month and a half of income.

Then the inevitability of the mainframe going down, now instead of one computer down, you can have millions down, probably with a technical staff that really doesn't care how long it's down.  As in, when was the last time your phone was off for several days?  Did the company reduce your monthly charge for that?  OR, like one ISP I had, Friday night everything was fine.  Saturday morning the system was down.  Monday morning it was back, but the monthly charge stayed the same, a big, "Sorry about that".

And my gut feeling is that hacking into the cloud is going to be childs play for the hackers.  NOthing you have there will be your own, it will be open to the world.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

I guess I just hate the idea of being at the mercy of some big fat company's whims. LOL It's bad enough that I have to have that crap on my phone or make it unusable, but my desktop too? Nah... Which brings me to another point. At some time in the future our brains will be wired into one big mainframe controlled by gawd knows who, gawd knows where. With just a tablet interface :P.... And they say desktops are dead....try doing anything 3D related on a 10" tablet. LOL.

hugs her desktop

Laurie

Right. I wanted to make a point before....

You know, Adobe didn't even notice the MILLIONS of people hitting the servers for their "free" copy of CS2 for more than a day...that doesn't really instiill my faith that they'll be very careful with my content :P. I feel that as soon as my money is in their hands they're pretty much ok with whatever happens after. LOL. With buying a full version disk, they at least have to worry about getting me back to buy the next version ;).

I won't even install Daz's content manager for that very reason. I bought the stuff...they know I bought it and I don't like another piece of crap program running in the damn background in the "hopes" that I might use it soon. They can shove it. LOL. Want my money? Make it easier for ME, not you. :P

Laurie

Well Laurie, if congress is successful in getting certain bills passed, in the name of "cyber security", then it won't be much longer before anything we do with any device connected to the internet is monitored and recorded "just in case" you might be up to somethin. 

And then of course we have these marvels of technology like Google Glass with face recognition, and this little beauty I just read about earlier today - the robobee - smallest flying machine created by man, at just 3cm long and weighs 80mg - its wings flap at 120 bps. It has its own robotic muscle system to make that possible. They're working out the kinks on how to get them to communicate with each other in a swarm and can be used for artificial polination or to send a bunch of them in to monitor a dangerous situation, or look for missing persons. You know all the good stuff of course, cause no one would ever use them to violate your privacy. Which is why Texas and Virginia have both passed measures prohibiting the general public from using them.

Technology is awesome!

Sometimes, the more this stuff advances, the more I wish we were all still wearin pig skins and fighting over piles of wood. Course that may happen yet. They say history always repeats itself.

 

~Shane 

I think you might have a point Shane. LOLOL

And noooooo, they would never use that stuff for nefarious purposes...only good of course :P. The Google Glass thing is scary - I don't want one nor do I want to be in front of one. But that might just be my natural internal defense system kicking in that tells me someone is always up to no good. rofl

Laurie

pig skins had to put up with A..H... gov's n kings also.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - ...Which is why Texas and Virginia have both passed measures prohibiting the general public from using them.

 

~Shane 

Living in Texas, I wouldn't put any weight behind any state laws it passes. lol! I "lol", but I am actually serious on that point.

I for one, understand peoples opposition to "cloud services"...when it comes to the crunch, I would much prefer to have a physical copy with a non "phone-home" licensing system. At least if a developer went belly-up, I could still use the software...but! - I still think a subscription is a great idea! The cost of the Photoshop subscription is within the means of many, that would otherwise not be able to afford the software.

Considering this is the Poser forum, I would wager that, the cost of a Photoshop subscription is peanuts compared to the amount many spend on content and add-ons.

 

Website: The 3D Scene - Returning Soon!

Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

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--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

If, as it sounds, the software will be installed locally then someone will figure out a way to spoof the activation – they always do. The next step will be remote deactivation. Log onto the internet anytime, and Adobe’s EULA will give them the right to run its tentacle into your machine and kill any unauthorized software. This is also something that companies dearly want. And someone will figure out a way to block that until Congress mandates the uber DMCA enforced by the NSA that allows Adobe et al access to every byte on the internet to protect their interests (and of course national security). If you think that’s some kind of never gonna happen, Orwellian dystopia, you haven’t been reading the news very closely IMO.

Normally, the power of the marketplace, competition, public outcry would stifle such hijinks but if you look at the evolving notion of privacy, you see that people will accept just about anything if they’re frightened enough or in exchange for a few trinkets. I remember reading one fellow who griped that he’d leave FaceBook after one of their new levels of invasiveness – if only he could find another good online Soduku game. It isn’t even a matter of boiling the frogs slowly, they’re hopping onto the grill and basking in the heat.

The open source thing would be a heavy lift. The pieces may be there kinda sorta but even if you got them working smoothly together, Adobe is about more than just the software. It’s about the ecosystem, the accumulated DNA, the investment people have made. Sure some would jump but I don’t see Microsoft running a loss on Office yet because of the rivals and Windows is being eroded more by the move to mobile than by desktop Linux. Any free alternative is going to have to flawlessly run virtually all of Photoshop’s filters and actions and have an interface that id similar enough for people that have spent decades with PS and aren’t going to be eager to learn something else while doing a job. Some would, but how many.. After using PhotoPaint for years, even on a very occasional basis, I’m still wired enough into it that I find PS annoying. I can imagine a years long heavy PS user trying to convert and GIMPShop probably won’t cut it. Create anything too compatible and Adobe’s law dogs will have you in court for generations. I’m not saying it couldn’t succeed, just pack a lunch.

Good analogy here perhaps. If Poser went subscription only, how many people would rebel and go to DAZ Studio or say, let’s just take MakeHuman/Blender and build our own?

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

This will be the way most upper tier software will go soon. We already have no rights to any of our iPhones, Playstations and most other consumer electronics that are not already ladened with restrictions that essentially put the "owner" in the position of "renter" (in some instances almost as a "borrower") soon will be, nobody complained as we moved in that direction, nobody will complain now, Adobe will tell us it is all for our own good, so drink the punch an be happy... other companies will watch Adobe succeed and institute the same sort of policies... This is no bargain for the hobbyist, and when everyone switches to this model there will be no bargains anymore. In the corporate world the idea of a monthly subscription for everything is the greatest idea since sliced bread... no need to own it, just keep paying us, while we slowly jack up the price and dilute the service... It is amazing to me that people buy into this... swear by it even... little by little we give up all our consumer rights and privileges one by one, grinning all the while... its so cool.

Hopefully this will drive more people to Gimp. I personally hope this turns out to be a disaster of epic proportions for Adobe, not out malice but out of hope that this won't spread like a cancer to ever other software manufacturer out there, emboldened to take what Abode is doing , one step further... but most likely everyone will drink the punch and ask for more, praising it's bitter taste as if it were ambrosia.

Bottoms up, but I'll pass.

I don't put any faith in the conspirowackos, doubt that many of them have much ability to think.  I don't remember which politician it was, but all up in arms that you can buy for less than forty bucks, a remotely controlled helicopter completel with camera.

The screaming and hollering, that one is first of all, limited in flight time, less than eight minutes, noisy, obvious with brilliant LED lights flashing.  But the true stupidity, first, it's not radio controlled, it's infra red controlled, which anyone that can reason can figure out, you ain't gonna overpower the sun.  Tha big yellow ball up there puts out more infra red than anything we could make here.  Infra red helicopters, flown outdoors, as soon as the sun hits them, go into complete shutdown. Same if they go behind a wall, they have to see the emitter on the control or they shut down.  NO, they don't restart until you pick them up, turn them off and back on.  They're also slow, some not good maneuverability, some basically too unstable for any recon work.

The "robotic bee", onithopter, which all have one basic problem that would interfere greatly with any photography, they vibrate badly  If blurry pictures are what's needed, maybe fine then.  If detail is wanted, that ain't the way to  go. 

The only conspiracy I see in the cloud is those that want to build it, and make fortunes ripping everyone else off.  THere's more to worry about from hackers than from our "ebil gubment".  As far as the "ebil gubment" tracking the net and our email, I send everything to the trash as soon as I've read or answered it, and regularly empty the trash.  Rotsa ruck finding anything there, if there ever was.  We now have senators seeing conspiracy everywhere in the government.  Surprise, senator.  That's you.  COnspiracy?  Go look in a mirror.

Disgusted Doric.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

There was some worry expressed awhile back that Studio was indeed getting ready to go off into the cloud, around the time their new Content Management System/Installer program was announced if I remember correctly. Of course this was dismissed as being "not something in Daz's plans" or words to that effect, but that was then. Now, who knows? If Adobe somehow manages not to completely BLEEP! off the majority of their customer base over this "cloud" service replacing software as we know it, other companies including Daz and SM may very well reconsider their future strategy. :shudders at the thought:

I think most hobbyists are not too different from me,that being, we want copies of our softwares etc. so we can install, remove, reinstall if we decide to, and have it fully functional no matter if we have to build a new box or not.  Install it, enter the necessary to get it to work, and we're happy.  If the new versions are dogs, remove it and put the last one that worked well back in.  If there's an update that fixes the dog, reinstall, without having to go through a bunch of hoops to do it.  In the cloud, my guess would be as soon as there was a new release, the old would be among the unavailable, and we wouldn't have to look for updates or fixes, they wouldn't be there, just a new version, with an increased fee.  Companies exist only to make money, and how they do it is now becoming much less of a concern to them.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

Quote - The open source thing would be a heavy lift. The pieces may be there kinda sorta but even if you got them working smoothly together, Adobe is about more than just the software. It’s about the ecosystem, the accumulated DNA, the investment people have made. Sure some would jump but I don’t see Microsoft running a loss on Office yet because of the rivals...

They lost me ages ago, and I do a good bit of IT work for individuals. I've had one person install Word rather than keep using OpenOffice, or now, LibreOffice.

Most people just want the unility and don't know there is an alternative.

I've had about 5 people ask me to make the DVD's full of stuff for friends.

Quote - ....and Windows is being eroded more by the move to mobile than by desktop Linux.

That's a very different situation. There is an entrenched market for odd little apps that Linux just cannot compete with.

Quote - Any free alternative is going to have to flawlessly run virtually all of Photoshop’s filters and actions and have an interface that id similar enough for people that have spent decades with PS and aren’t going to be eager to learn something else while doing a job.

Up until Adobe is hit with DOS attack by some one like Anonymous and all of a sudden no one can run Photoshop until they figure out how to block it.

Quote - Some would, but how many.. After using PhotoPaint for years, even on a very occasional basis, I’m still wired enough into it that I find PS annoying. I can imagine a years long heavy PS user trying to convert and GIMPShop probably won’t cut it. Create anything too compatible and Adobe’s law dogs will have you in court for generations. I’m not saying it couldn’t succeed, just pack a lunch.

They won’t take on a FOSS alternative for the same reason M$ has never challenged OpenOffice. To acknowledge them would be to advertise them.

Quote - Good analogy here perhaps. If Poser went subscription only, how many people would rebel and go to DAZ Studio or say, let’s just take MakeHuman/Blender and build our own?

See... like a survival nut, I’ve already BEEN migrating. I use GIMP 80% of the time now. Inkscape about 75%, and Blender has become my tool of choice to the point where I don’t even have my other 3D apps loaded at the moment.

I realize I’m the exception, but at some point there will be enough of us to gain momentum. Old people retire and go blind. LOL.

mo·nop·o·ly  [muh-nop-uh-lee]
noun, plural mo·nop·o·lies.
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market,
or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices

Quote -
See... like a survival nut, I’ve already BEEN migrating. I use GIMP 80% of the time now. Inkscape about 75%, and Blender has become my tool of choice to the point where I don’t even have my other 3D apps loaded at the moment.

I don't use Blender because it's free, I use it because it is a kick-ass tool!! An upgrade cycle to dream for, huge support, feature rich, stable and, at long, last a GUI that doesn't drive you insane and IS user friendly.

 

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Twitter: Follow @the3dscene

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--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

Quote - I don't use Blender because it's free, I use it because it is a kick-ass tool!! An upgrade cycle to dream for, huge support, feature rich, stable and, at long, last a GUI that doesn't drive you insane and IS user friendly.

Remind me to pick your brain for quick info. I'm going to take on Blender for another round....lol.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote -

See... like a survival nut, I’ve already BEEN migrating. I use GIMP 80% of the time now. Inkscape about 75%, and Blender has become my tool of choice to the point where I don’t even have my other 3D apps loaded at the moment.

I don't use Blender because it's free, I use it because it is a kick-ass tool!! An upgrade cycle to dream for, huge support, feature rich, stable and, at long, last a GUI that doesn't drive you insane and IS user friendly.

GUI is still driving me a bit crazy. LOL! But that's just because I'm SOOOOoooo used to Lightwave.

Geeze!!! It's 20 Years this year!!! I first used it on my Amiga 500 with a 68020 and FPU, running Lightrave to run Lightwave 3.5!

That's a lot to unlearn. But I'm getting there.

I remember when Blender was in .9 releases. The interface has improved greatly, and the power under the hood has become staggering.

What really sold me was when I was killing my self to learn Z-Brush and found out that Blender had it built in... with a more sensible UI!!!!

mo·nop·o·ly  [muh-nop-uh-lee]
noun, plural mo·nop·o·lies.
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market,
or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices

I've been using Photoshop for over 20 years now (version 2.5). I'll still use what I've got - it's old (PS7...and runs fine on Win7 x64), but it gets the job done. Don't plan on getting Windows 8 EVER. Therefore I may get another 8 years or so out of it. LOL.

Laurie

As far as the "ebil gubment" tracking the net and our email, I send everything to the trash as soon as I've read or answered it, and regularly empty the trash.

*If you follow the news you should know that every message electronically sent is stored by the NSA. Every phone call, every e-mal, every text. The cloud will be a happy hunting grounds for those who seek to monitor everything.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

Yeah, for every one of trash, fifty thousand of garbage.  140 million people, how many of them on line I don't know, but the problems are it would take half the population of the country to watch all the rubbish.  Common sense says there's something wrong with that scenario.

And nobody has given a reason why they would that didn't come out of some whacked out site run by "Whine la Paranoid."

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

Yeah, for every one of trash, fifty thousand of garbage.  140 million people, how many of them on line I don't know, but the problems are it would take half the population of the country to watch all the rubbish.  Common sense says there's something wrong with that scenario.

Computer algorithms scan this stuff for key words. Also, if you should every become a person of interest or annoyance to the crypto state, they can manually check everything you've ever did to see if there's a way to get at you. 

People who call this stuff a conspiracy are arguing from a position of ignorance, but at least they feel secure and superior.

Download my free stuff here: http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=323368

I guess there are pros and cons.

e.g. it can make the software more affordable on one level... whilst at the same time, more expensive... certainly if you're not an end-user who consistently upgrades to the latest version.

I do suspect one of the pros will be that there will be more support, from some factions of the current user base, for alternative, open source projects...

Don't have a problem with the cloud concept, use Steam for games and it works fine (it needs fast broadband though).  The $30 a month headline looks high but thats $1 a day, if Adobe allowed me to rent the application by the day I would be very happy!

There was a mobile service provider (Europe) who, last year decided to offer points to is Pay As You Talk customers for every top up.  A lot of users did not know how to collect the points which required a text to be sent to particular number.  If this was not bad enough, to spend the points you had to register 'on-line' and needed an email account.  The customer service staff in the shops then spent a lot of time setting up email accounts just so people could spend the points.  Even the local librarys got fed up with the numbers they had to try an help.

My guess is the whole idea was thought up by a wizz kid who never imagined that so many people were not on line.  Company line was that they were doing it to encourage people to get connected.  If they thought it worked they want to look at the numbers of people who came back the next time they wanted to spend points.  Most could not even remeber their email address, or their password, even though it was wriitten down by the staff at the time.  The reality was they did not need to be connected and never used it until they wanted to spent points, about twice a year.

OK I know that very few of these, if any use Photoshop, but it is very easy for the techies in large companies to forget many people do not use the Internet or have such a slow connection that using the Internet is very limited for them.  I know I am old fashioned but such people should have a choice.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - I like the the subscription model Adobe are offering. It makes an expensive software affordable to many who couldn't afford it before...for many like myself (still using CS4), I found it overpriced in general and begrugged having to buy it, but looking at the prices with the subscription model...it's tempting. I'm not sure this model will work for all software, but it makes expensive software usage easier to swallow.

For new users, yes. But for those with existing licenses, short of the Master collection, no - upgrading CS5.5 Design Premium to CS6 Design Premium cost me £375, I think, or roughly £30 per month assuming annual updates; that's less than the current monthly fee for the cloud service once the introductory discount goes. For a user of the Standard Suite it would be even worse. > Quote - Right. I wanted to make a point before.... You know, Adobe didn't even notice the MILLIONS of people hitting the servers for their "free" copy of CS2 for more than a day...that doesn't really instiill my faith that they'll be very careful with my content :P. I feel that as soon as my money is in their hands they're pretty much ok with whatever happens after. LOL. With buying a full version disk, they at least have to worry about getting me back to buy the next version ;).

Your content won't be on Adobe's servers, nor will your applications. "Cloud" is just a bit of trendy marketing speak - it's a subscription model for licensing your local software, which needs a connection once a month (but wil apparently keep working for about six months if it can't get through). A lot of people seem to be forgetting that, or taking the discussion to the cloud in general, I used your quote as I wanted to address its other half anyway rather than to single you out. > Quote - I won't even install Daz's content manager for that very reason. I bought the stuff...they know I bought it and I don't like another piece of crap program running in the damn background in the "hopes" that I might use it soon. They can shove it. LOL. Want my money? Make it easier for ME, not you. :P Laurie

The Install Manager doesn't run in the background, and doesn't monitor installed files. It runs when you run it and then uses the zip, if you've kept it in the download folder, or a manifest file, if you installed the content with the Install Manager rather than just using it as a download manager, to check to see if the version on the DAZ servers is different (and presumably updated). By all means decide not to use it - the zips will be available for direct download - but it isn't what you appear to fear.

Quote - As far as the "ebil gubment" tracking the net and our email, I send everything to the trash as soon as I've read or answered it, and regularly empty the trash.

*If you follow the news you should know that every message electronically sent is stored by the NSA. Every phone call, every e-mal, every text. The cloud will be a happy hunting grounds for those who seek to monitor everything.

In all honesty that is scare mongery tainted with conspiracy theory...you shouldn't believe everything you see on the news. The news media will pick up on the smallest thing and blow it up to make headlines.

Besides, I take a different view: if you're doing nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about.

Of course, you may want to live in a world with no terrorism, child molestation, religous fundementalism etc, but we don't. I don't think you realise just how many lives have been saved from authorities checking and intercepting data exchanges through the internet, mobile devices etc, that have halted terrosim attacks.

You must remember, people can not be trusted with absolute freedom to do what they want. You want the freedom to say what you want in every phone call, text or e-mail, without it being checked? Well it's that kind of freedom with US gun laws that allows it to arm totally unstable people, so that they can go on shooting rampages.

Freedom to do what ever you want, isn't the Utopia many people think it is.

 

 

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Quote - > Quote - As far as the "ebil gubment" tracking the net and our email, I send everything to the trash as soon as I've read or answered it, and regularly empty the trash.

*If you follow the news you should know that every message electronically sent is stored by the NSA. Every phone call, every e-mal, every text. The cloud will be a happy hunting grounds for those who seek to monitor everything.

In all honesty that is scare mongery tainted with conspiracy theory...you shouldn't believe everything you see on the news. The news media will pick up on the smallest thing and blow it up to make headlines.

Besides, I take a different view: if you're doing nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about.

 

Very close to my thoughts.  And if the find something interesting or subversive about my sister ragging me to go see a doctor, and I'm answering I haven't done that in over eighteen years, I wish they'd let me know.

I do follow the news, and it's usually not the mainstream that starts the BS going, that can be narrowed to just a few very loud, very ignorant places.  But, we have "societies" that go off on the dangers of floride in water, because according to them, "When the ebil gubment wants to introduce mnd controls into the water, it will be without opposition", and the "chemtrail" lunatics that can't understand vapor trails from jets are exactly that, water vapor.  We used to have people in this area pointing at the yellowish band of haze streaming north along Lake Michigan, which when you remember Gary Indiana is somewhat to the south isn't too hard to understand.  Steel mills do kinda  tend to toss some soot and other things into the atmosphere. 

It's when the lunatic fringe media picks up on this crap and refuses to accept logical and soundly based explanations that these cracked conpirowacko's get going.  It's a  crime that there are people ready, willing and eager to buy into them without bothering to think and use reason.  Life itself is a conspiracy, there's no way to get out alive.

Doric.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

OH, yeah.  Forgot.  If the "ebil gubment" is tracking and storing everything, I WANT ONE OF THOSE HARD DRIVES!

Doric

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

This is getting a bit far afield...

Can we return to the OP's subject and leave govt consipracies alone? (After all... Big Brother is watching THIS conversation, and we are all being added to the subversives list for participating in it!)

A couple of info bits on surveillance - and keep in mind this was 2006 era technology.

And forget what the war on terror has spawned, now the IRS claims it has the authority to read your emails without a warrant (though they won't use it of course :-) Does the bit about consolidating data from social networks, shopping etc. make snyone a teensie bit unsettled? The fact is that today, the avg. person is being recorded, by cameras, GPS in cell phones and cars, credit card transactions, web activity etc. ad nauseum. Isolated bits would be troublesome enough but aggregated, it's the ball game. Now if you believe that anyone can be trusted not to abuse that kind of power, rest easy, it's all paranoia. If you believe that no one will ever be interested in you because you're an honest citizen, sleep tight. It's all a fantasy that even nuns get on the list for supporting some peace and justice cause that rankles the administration du jour. The safety in numbers thing went out with databases and supercomputers. And that's without the 'well-meaning' idiots like the ones on reddit who tabbed some poor innocent schmuck as the Boston bomber - or your spouse's divorce lawyer et al because surely they would never get access to that data. Nah, must be just crazy lefties who probably want the terrorists to win - like these guys:

"Reason and Ignorance, the opposites of each other, influence the great bulk of mankind. If either of these can be rendered sufficiently extensive in a country, the machinery of Government goes easily on. Reason obeys itself; and Ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it." - Thomas Paine

"The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience." - Albert Camus

OK, Paine probably was a terrorist according to his majesty, and Camus sounds suspiciously French.

"My guess is the whole idea was thought up by a wizz kid who never imagined that so many people were not on line."

In a way, I think this is part of the trend away from privacy. Someone who's never seen a telephone booth probably has trouble imagining that people once valued private conversations, rather than walking around blabbing to the world about who they're f*****g etc. :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Quote -
You must remember, people can not be trusted with absolute freedom to do what they want. You want the freedom to say what you want in every phone call, text or e-mail, without it being checked? Well it's that kind of freedom with US gun laws that allows it to arm totally unstable people, so that they can go on shooting rampages.

Freedom to do what ever you want, isn't the Utopia many people think it is.

 

And this level of brainwashing and indoctrination is exactly why we have the problems we have today, and why they will only get worse. 

There are no US gun laws that "allow" unstable people to legally obtain a gun. That is nothing but propaganda. 

Cities that have the most lenient gun laws across the country have the LOWEST rate of gun crimes in the country. The UK however, with some of the strictest gun laws in the world also has some of the highest rates of murder per capita in the world, far exceeding anywhere in the US.

No law in the world will ever prevent crazy people from getting guns, or perverts from molesting kids, or religious fundamentalists from preaching, or any of the other atrocities you want to blame freedom for creating. 

Several images in your gallery would be considered offensive to a lot of people, especially the most recent "Patriot Girl", not only because she's portrayed in such a way that objectifies women - which is offensive not only to women but also those of religions who believe it is a sin for women to be seen in any manner of undress. The flag she's holding also offends those of other nationalities who see that flag in a much different light. In many countries posting an image like that would get you arrested, possibly even executed. Freedom of speech in the US protects you from that. Granted, it doesn't protect you from being offended by something you read or hear or watch on TV, but it does give you the right to ignore it and look the other way, or even speak out against it. Without freedom of speech and the first amendment we'd have no gay rights, no women's rights, no minority rights of any kind. Freedom of speech is the ONLY reason those rights exist today. So yes, anyone should have the right to say whatever they want in every phone call, text, e-mail, image, publication, T-shirt, bilboard or any other means they choose, without fear of government persecution or prosecution, because that is our right, as defined by our constitution and is the foundation of any free society. 

Precision - government data mining is not a conspiracy. The world's largest, most advanced data mining center being built in Utah is not a conspiracy. The Trans-Pacific Partnership and what it does to individual privacy and copyright laws internationally is not a conspiracy. But as long as you continue to believe these things are conspiracies, then they don't really exist.

I predict this thread will be locked soon so I'm bowing out. 

 

~Shane

Quote - Precision - government data mining is not a conspiracy. The world's largest, most advanced data mining center being built in Utah is not a conspiracy. The Trans-Pacific Partnership and what it does to individual privacy and copyright laws internationally is not a conspiracy. But as long as you continue to believe these things are conspiracies, then they don't really exist.

I predict this thread will be locked soon so I'm bowing out. 

 

~Shane

If you read what I'm saying, that's exactly what I said.  The only conspiracy in the cloud is for the people that will create and profit from it at the expense of everyone else.  And if the "ebil gubment" wants to collect and store gigabytes of useless data every second, would they kindly explain why fifty recipes for teraki steak are related to national security.

The cloud is profit motivated, nothing else, and as profit is the motive, privacy and security of the data contained in the could are going to be sacrificed.  Adding another level between supplier and consumer, that level has to be paid, which goes on a one eighty to increasing the value.  Or, you pays more, you gets less.

Doric.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

Quote - I predict this thread will be locked soon so I'm bowing out.   

Politics is one of the surest ways to kill a thread.

It will only get locked if people don't observe a simple, polite request:

"Get back to Photoshop in the Cloud" (second request)

Quote - Hard drives are faulty and outdated. They have always been the weakest link in any computer due to their very design, and are responsible for most crashes and data loss. With cloud computing you are 99.9% guranteed no loss of data unless there is a deliberate system-wide server wipe.

~Shane

So, what is the data in 'the cloud' being stored on? If it's not the faulty and outdated hard drive, then what is it? Solid State drives? They can be just as faulty.

I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that these 'clouds' are just rooms full of servers packed with hard drives generating tons of heat while chugging along storing all of our precious data. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

The 'cloud' isn't some all-knowing, all-seeing mega storage place, it's lots of little places, start ups and established companies, that run these servers and collect our data as well as whatever monthly fee they decided to charge. If the company you use goes belly up or they have a power outage or whatever, then what?

As I said, I could be wrong, but this is how I understand the 'cloud'. I'd much rather trust to my own external hard drives and backups than to a 'cloud'.

I am open to correction.

Cloud servers are usually servers in multiple locations with multiple levels of redundancy. If the power goes down on one location, or there is hardware failure, fire, etc then a back up will kick in at a different location...it could be a different building miles away or the other side of the world.

I see people say that they would  rather trust themselves with their own data, and rightly so, but how many of those same people make regular backups of their data and store it in a totally seperate location. God forbid, but if your house went up in flames, or your computer stolen, would your data be safe? For many, I bet not.

I remember years ago when there was uproar, when it seemed Poser was going the "phone-home" route for licensing, at a time when Poser was being hit heavily by the warez trade. At the time I found it ironic, that the very same people who jumped on Curious Labs about "phoning home" and protecting their assets, also were in uproar when a site was found using their art work without permission and all matter of discussion about how to protect their artwork ensued. As I say, the irony of it!

If Adobe have found a system that protects their assets better than the current one, and gives the user good value for money at the same time, then good for them!! I can understand if it's a system you can't agree with, but I also understand a company wanting to protect their product.

BTW, I'm no Adobe fanboi, I actually despise companies that have a monoply on our trade, but unlike Autodesk, who have just bought out all competition over the years (grrrrrr!), Adobe's dominance is caused by the fact that nobody has come up with something better....ok they bought out Macromedia and a few other small companies, but as far as Photoshop etc...Gimp? Really?...and anything from Coral...hmmmm, not the best company I have had the pleasure to deal with in the past.

 

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As noted already, the Adobe Cloud, at least as far as licensing and using the Adobe Creative Suite software is concerned is not actually cloud computing... either in terms of application process hosting, or file storage.

The software is still downloaded, installed and run on your local computer. All your files are still stored on your local computer... in fact the software works exactly the same as previously, more or less.

The difference is simply in terms of how Adobe are charging for the software, i.e. a monthly subscription... and in terms of how the licensing is administrated, i.e. via a "cloud" hosted license validation service.

Quote - Besides, I take a different view: if you're doing nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about.

Perhaps one day, I should tell you about what happened to me.  You'd not be singing that song any more.  

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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"If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next", is the famous phrase that I suspect is just as relevant to new software licensing schemes, as it ever was... ;)

In general I take some, cold comfort from the fact that the powers that be are still, seemingly, pretty unsavvy, when it comes to technology... well, in certain, of the more public echelons at least...

...anyone in the UK catch the Queen's speech earlier today. Her Maj talking about IP addressing was an interesting one...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/08/queen_speech_government_plans_proposals_for_problem_of_internet_protocol_addresses/

..although the establishment is starting to catch up.

In other news:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/08/microsoft_subscriptions_in_10_years/

Its all about establishing a new virtual feudality, one might argue...

...or you could just say it's all about keeping the shareholders happier and making the old company coffers fill up in a more predictable fashion... and possibly a bit fuller. As everyone knows it's easier to charge more when you charge in smaller monthly payments, don't they?

It could start to get a bit like Brighthouse, as portrayed in the following linked article, for software...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/nov/23/brighthouse-heavy-price-paying-by-week

I think the fact that the term "The Cloud" is banded as around so freely is part of the problem, yes you can use the cloud for data storage, cloud computing (where I understand the software is remote but your data is held locally, although this may vary).  Neither of which Adobe is promoting at the moment.

There have already been some problems with certain compananies going bust which means that the subscribers have lost access to thier data.  I am not saying there are not good companies out there but they all claim to store your data at a secure, secret location, which you have to take on trust, otherwise it would not be secret.

I do not store my data in the cloud, I do keep regular backups and at two locations which I trust more than any large faceless company.  If people want to use the cloud, fine, and they should have that choice, but it is not for everyone and I feel those who have problems with it should have the choice also.

 

As for the idea it will stop illegal use well, any security made by man can be broken by man.  The justification for it is simple, it makes money in a way easier than it has in the past and that is the only benefit the bean counters want.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

I would highly recommend these, over any cloud storage solution, for your gigabytes, nae terrabytes, of Poser runtime content:

http://iosafe.com/products-n2-overview

http://iosafe.com/products-soloPRO-overview

Not so cheap?

But the cost gets waaaaay more attractive if you add up what it would cost you to store the same amount of data in the cloud, even for just a few months...

...I'm just waiting for them to bring out the earthquake / shock proof (mass extinction event proof?) model... and I'll be confident my data will out-survive me!

Multiple geographic storage locations, multiple copy backups / replicas, over a reasonably long cyclical time frame, and disk redundancy, are of course also an important part of any good data retention strategy ;)

Sure a good cloud solution can give you all that... but cheaper than you can host on your own premises?

I see people say that they would  rather trust themselves with their own data, and rightly so, but how many of those same people make regular backups of their data and store it in a totally seperate location. God forbid, but if your house went up in flames, or your computer stolen, would your data be safe? For many, I bet not. The concern is touching, but I'm not charmed by this trend to force people into the cloud, even if it's "for their own good."

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Quote - I see people say that they would  rather trust themselves with their own data, and rightly so, but how many of those same people make regular backups of their data and store it in a totally seperate location. God forbid, but if your house went up in flames, or your computer stolen, would your data be safe? For many, I bet not. The concern is touching, but I'm not charmed by this trend to force people into the cloud, even if it's "for their own good."

Do you or your family use Facebook? Facebook and  Facebook's use of personal data offends me more than any government agency, or Adobe's new licensing system. How many times has the horse bolted on Facebook's use of data, before the gate has begrudgingly (sp) been closed! Yet, I'm astounded at the amount of info, personal info, people are willing to give to Facebook and the world in general. Facebook must be one of the worlds largest clouds of personal info, ever....even bigger than that government HDD collecting all that Text, e-mail and phone call data :P
Yet people will carry on using it (Facebook) giving all kinds of info, without batting an eyelid, but kick up a stink at a new licensing system.

People need to realise "cloud" is a buzz word - in Adobe's case its a licensing server (nothing new there, license servers have been around for decades). When I re-download a purchase from Apple, they are telling me I'm downloading from the "Cloud"...no I'm effing not! It's the same storage server I've been downloading from for the past decade ffs!

(Scenario) Hey, SM could say you have to download the new Poser from their Cloud of data. That "Cloud" of data will hold all your purchase history and a record of all the data you have downloaded from them from SM and  CP. "OMG! SM are using my data IN...A......CLOUD!! How dare they!!!" Ermm, what I just described is exactly what SM do now via their web server...

Clouds have been around, nearly as long as the internet...they just wasn't called "clouds". "Clouds" aren't a new invention, it's just a buzz word to encompass different kinds of storage.

 

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--------------- A life?! Cool!! Where do I download one of those?---------------

Do you or your family use Facebook?

Of course not. I'm the guy who is informed, remember?

Facebook must be one of the worlds largest clouds of personal info, ever....even bigger than that government HDD collecting all that Text, e-mail and phone call data :P

I doubt it. The NSA's data storage facility in Utah is rather more impressive, and that's just one of the hubs, but relax, it's just for foriegners and persons of interest (in the millions.) They wouldn't lie about this stuff again, would they? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/ 

Clouds have been around, nearly as long as the internet...they just wasn't called "clouds". "Clouds" aren't a new invention, it's just a buzz word to encompass different kinds of storage.

If you need to maintain an internet connection, or log in to their "cloud" server time and time again to use the rentware, I'll just go on using the old stuff, thanks. Let's face it, Adobe PhotoShop has had the basics figured out for quite a while now.

 

 

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If Adobe wants to bring flexibility then they can use the rent-to-own model. Pay the monthly and when you've paid the full price, it's yours, fully activated forever. People who want to stay on the subscription treadmill can do so.

People are going to disagree on security, privacy etc. Some of it may be generstional, some may conceivably be the way our brains are wired. Read up on the latest research on authoritarian personalities, relative size of the amygdala, vs. the anterior cingulate etc. It may be that certain people are more inclined by their neuro-anatomy to be more fearful or more open to novel situations etc. It's early days yet but it would explain the huge and persistent disagreements in society. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest it explaind why some people embrace the cloud concept although it is a form of centralized control. Certainly would explain differing views on security vs. individual liberty/privacy etc. I think.  

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Since it's arguably the most pirated productivity software ever, it makes sense for Adobe to go this way.  Until some bright spark finds a way to circumvent it.  And that may already be the case.  :)

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In the quantum energy flux that comprises our existence, there is always another way round or through any locked door ;)

At a conceptual, high level, this is why trying to tie IP addresses, mac addresses, individual data packets, to a certified individual cannot ever be 100% reliable... just as it is impossible, as Sam says, to prevent any license protection system from eventually being cracked or circumvented.

Perhaps in a police state, a government sponsored corporation, or a corporately sponsored government, could exert the necessary control over every single internet access point, needed to make identification over the internet watertight?

But perhaps the irony there is that, in a police state, circumstantial evidence, propaganda and heresay, is usually good enough?

Whether you try and lock things down at a microcosmic, or a macrocosmic level, it seems there will always be a hole, a gap, a missing chunk... then you've got a leak, a flaw in your cosmic containment system, that you've so carefully modelled... and entropy kicks back in :)

Balancing on probabilities is perhaps the only reasonable / practical way to proceed...

So what happens after your subscription runs out? Can you not use the product you're subscribed to anymore?

At any rate.... I'm not using any software that use subscription payments, I want to use it whenever I like, now, next month, in 5 years, without someone interfering or making me pay to keep on using something... or forcing me to upgrade if I don't want to. As soon as I hear software and cloud in one sentence it's time to look for valid less money hungry, less piracy obsessed alternatives. If I pay for something it's mine, otherwise I don't buy it.

So.... bye, bye, Adobe! I'm only hoping that Poser will wise up and stop being adobe flash/air dependant, so I can finally get rid of those adobe pests. I'm fine with software that checks online if I do have a legal version when installing it or running the first time, but after that there's no need to do so anymore.... software that constantly wants to connect to the internet with no valid reason is not my piece of cake.

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Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Does anyone know if this can be used as a pay as you go type of deal. Obviously by the month, but if you don't use it often can you say, pay for March and use it in March and then let the subscription run out and not pay anything until October when you need it again? This does of course mean not using it April to September. If you don't need to get things done by a deadline you could set up your photoshop work in the inbetween months and then then do a bunch once a quarter.

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I use Poser 13 and win 10

I believe it's a per-year subscription, payable monthly, rather than something you can dip in and out of.

This sort of thing troubles me.  Say you're a graphics artist and you lose your source of regular income and need to rely on freelancing using your home software.  A monthly fee in such a situation could lead to deactivation of the software you need, in order to make money, because you don't have enough money at the moment.  You already need to maintain a (perhaps over-priced) connection to the internet, in such a case.  What if you rely on other software suites beyond Adobe, too, and they go to they same model?  Doesn't seem like a good situation.  The tools you need could become unreliable or unavailable just when you need them most.  :unsure:

But personally I still use a cheap copy of PSP 7 from 2000.  :lol:  I have Photoshop and Illustrator, never used them, didn't even bother to load them onto this most recent computer.  As long as Poser doesn't start charging monthly rent, I'll be happy enough.  I've gone through periods where I couldn't even afford an internet connection but was still able to turn to the software on my computer to help me cope with a bad time.  To have everything stop working would be just rotten.  I'd have to fire up that old Toshiba laptop and use outdated software.  :scared:  Or, you know, just go read a book, or something.  :unsure:  :lol:

===========================sigline======================================================

Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking.  He apologizes for this.  He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.

Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below.  His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.

Quote - Does anyone know if this can be used as a pay as you go type of deal.

I doubt it, that would generate much less income for Adobe. I reckon a big reason for the whole shift to subscription is that when times are hard a lot of people just stop buying upgrades, the old version still does the job even if it doesn't have the new bells and whistles.

The trouble is that there's a disincentive to upgrade after that, once you've missed one upgrade, you have to buy a full new licence, a significant outlay. So users like me just keep going with software several versions old (I'm still using CS3). Consequently Adobe hasn't seen a cent of my money since about 2006. I'm sure they want to change that with the subscription system.

Quote - This sort of thing troubles me.  Say you're a graphics artist and you lose your source of regular income and need to rely on freelancing using your home software.  A monthly fee in such a situation could lead to deactivation of the software you need, in order to make money, because you don't have enough money at the moment.  You already need to maintain a (perhaps over-priced) connection to the internet, in such a case.  What if you rely on other software suites beyond Adobe, too, and they go to they same model?  Doesn't seem like a good situation.  The tools you need could become unreliable or unavailable just when you need them most.  :unsure:

.....

Sounds like you will have a lot of time then to learn a different software.

At the risk of derailing the thread, I quit on Photoshop 10 years ago when I discovered Gimp. I'm completely oblivious to what Photoshop can do at this point. All I know is Gimp does what I need done.

You can't beat free for a price.

$.02

Gimp is good.  I picked up Paint Shop Pro X4 for a song a couple of Black Fridays ago and it is good too....

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Right now Adobe is a true monopoly. For at least the past 2 decades they have bought absorbed and dismantled every other package they could.

The only real weeds growing in the vacuum are FOSS.

Anyone who is fine with new policy great. If you're not... the only thing you can REALLY do about it get involved in fixing it.

http://www.blender.org/
Total 3D package that rivals Maya, 3DS, Lightwave, C4D, or anything else you can mention including Zbrush. It is also a powerful video editor to rival Premier, and has advanced motion graphics tools the rival After Effects.

http://www.gimp.org/

2D Paint and Image processing program that offers a good deal functionality from Photoshop.

http://inkscape.org/

A vector art App that offers functionality similar to Illustrator.

http://www.scribus.net/canvas/Scribus

Page layout software to compare to InDesign.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

An audio processing program that offers most of the features available in Audition.

Adobe is phasing out Flash which is a mixed blessing.

Adobe took an awesome little animation program and crow bared their Macromedia Director Presentation Software into it to form a complex monster that only programmers loved.

The closest project in the FOSS environment is:

http://www.synfig.org/cms/

Development has been V E R Y S L O W, and I haven't tried it in a while.

Dreamweaver and Muse currently have no real rivals. So if your main interest is Web Design you're kind of stuck with Adobe.

But if you do want to leave the art world and “code your own”... here's some options.

http://www.bluegriffon.org/

http://quanta.sourceforge.net/release2.php

http://www.activestate.com/komodo-edit

http://getfirebug.com/

http://www.w3.org/Amaya/Overview.html

Competition is the key to true capitalism. The failure of the capitalism that eventually someone wins, or a group of competitors come to an arrangement as outlined by game theory. You get a Monopoly or an Oligopoly. That is when you need an organized response to limit the power of that group. A Government,

Adobe doesn't have any true competition any more. There is no need to appeal to the consumers desires because they are pretty much the only game in town.

This hodge podge of hobby applications is all we are going to get because there is no government intervention allowed in the “free” world.

mo·nop·o·ly  [muh-nop-uh-lee]
noun, plural mo·nop·o·lies.
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market,
or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices

Adobe didn't strong-arm anyone into selling. They're not a monopoly because they aren't preventing anyone from building their own software package and putting it up for sale as a true competitor to Adobe's line of software. The companies who sold out to Adobe are just as responsible for putting Adobe in the position of power that Adobe is currently in. 

If they were a true monopoly then Gimp would not exist, Paint Shop Pro would not exist, and anything any other software company tried producing that was similar to Adobe's software would not exist. 

Try learning what a real monopoly is before you go throwing the term around. 

There is no need for government intervention. That only leads to tyrany. Anyone is free to design whatever software they want, they just need the right team with the know-how to build a package that is viable enough to rival Adobe and make Adobe's customers move to them. That is the nature of the free market and capitalism. So far no one has bothered to put the resources into doing so. That's not Adobe's fault. 

 

~Shane

Quote - Try learning what a real monopoly is before you go throwing the term around.

Ughhh... Libertarian/Objectivist nonsense.

It's amazing how you psuedo-anarchist, free market types LOVE to make rules when it comes to "throwing terms"  you don't like around.

You are all FREE to look up the definition of "Monolopy" for yourselves and decide if Adobe fits the bill.

I'll let mr "free market" link you to the biased Neo-Con acceptable one.

I, in general, prefer a "tyrany" that I have a chance to vote out occasionally, as opposed to one that only answers to "stock holders" or "private owners" who profit from their domination, and have no obligation to respond the needs of those who don't.

mo·nop·o·ly  [muh-nop-uh-lee]
noun, plural mo·nop·o·lies.
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market,
or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices

You're trying to invent your own definition for a term you clearly know nothing about.

Here's your dictionary reference to help you understand what a monopoly is:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/monopoly

mo·nop·o·ly   [muh-nop-uh-lee]  Show IPA

noun, plural mo·nop·o·lies.1.exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possiblethe manipulation of prices. Compare duopoly, oligopoly.

2.an exclusive privilege to carry on a business, traffic, or service, granted by a government.

3.the exclusive possession or control of something.

4.something that is the subject of such control, as a commodity or service.

5.a company or group that has such control.

Adobe fits none of those definitions. They are a company that designs software and buys out other software when its failing, or when its owners want to sell. There is nothing illegal or wrong about doing that in a free market. 

Adobe does not prevent anyone else from developing their own software. If they did, as I stated before, then there would be no other options BUT Adobe software. 

If you don't like their business practices you're free to not use them, find someone else's software to use. If they were a monopoly then you wouldn't have that freedom. You'd either use their software or none at all. Their customers and clients are the reason they currently dominate the market. Dominating the market is not being a monopoly, it's just being a business that has made the right decisions to get them where they're currently at. 

~Shane

Clearly this thread has again moved to the 'PLease Lock This' mode so I will bow out.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

What Adobe chooses to do, I could care less, just not much less.  As has been said very often, a company has the right to manage.  Even when they manage to alienate most of their customer base and they "Manage" themselves out of existence.  Usually when this happens, it's not a  bad thing.

I have Gimp, I have Photo Plus, Gimp serves most of my needs.  I have PSE also, and after I had to reinstall windows to get rid of whatever that threw in the computer, you won't see me putting anything like that in again.  Once burned, twice learned.

Doric.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

While they do not have a monopoly at all, they have become a huge household name.... we even use 'I'm going to photoshop that bit out and so on' regardless if you do it with photoshop or not. There are alternatives, but as soon as you start working with printing companies and so on, how far will these alternatives get you? Not too far they expect you to have photoshop and even create their own printing profiles for it.

The thing is large companies tend to misuse their position. MS is starting to do it, now Adobe, who's next? They don't sell you software anymore, they lease it to you, since that's what it really is. But..... do we get the option to keep the leased software after the lease runs out or do we as with leased cars have to pay another fee to be able to keep on using the software after a year or is the lease over and we have to move on to the next version whether we like it or not, to prevent we end up with nothing at all.

As said before, bye Adobe, just as much as I've said bye, bye, MS Office.... I can live without and get one of the excellent alternatives, that work just as good and for sure are a lot faster and less memory hungry.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Certainly, with Microsoft's volume subscription licensing, after the end of the 3 year subscription, there is a buyout option...

...which converts the licenses to perpetual. It isn't cheap. But it is cheaper than buying new perpetual licenses... even with software assurance added on.

We're done.

Locking thread.