Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL


Subject: Book Cover art

EClark1894 opened this issue on May 18, 2013 · 78 posts


EClark1894 posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 1:00 PM

Okay, so most people don't know this but I actually wrote a book and self-published it years ago called New Atlantis- City Beneath the Sea. I did the cover art as well, but I did'n't have what it took to make the cover I really want using Poser, so I used Bryce instead.




EClark1894 posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 1:10 PM

So anyway, Lately, I've been working on another book and I may self-publish it again. I'm thinking of making it a series, possibly a trilogy and it's called SPELLCASTER. The first book introduces us to the heroine, she is named Aeryn and she is someone called the Emissary, thus the subtitle for the first book.

Anyway, I decided to  do three book covers just to give myself some ideas of the cover art and what the titles should look like and I'd like your opinion.

This is the first cover version.




EClark1894 posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 1:18 PM

This is cover  #2.




EClark1894 posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 1:19 PM

And cover #3. Obviously you can tell that the only difference between #2 and #3 is the placement of the word "Emissary".




rokket posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 1:52 PM

I like #3. It keeps the title from distracting from the scene.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


EClark1894 posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 1:55 PM

I have more than a few tweaks to make on the art work. When I wlittle I used to read these books that had illustrations of some scenes in them. I'm thinking of going that route too.




hornet3d posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 2:36 PM

Quote - I have more than a few tweaks to make on the art work. When I wlittle I used to read these books that had illustrations of some scenes in them. I'm thinking of going that route too.

 

I remeber those books and have had thoughts of doing a similar thing for a few years now but it is something I have never found the time to do, maybe a future project.

With the tools at at peoples disposal these days I am surprised so few books have illustrations of any sort. 

 

 

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luckybears posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 3:21 PM

In this instance maybe Bryce was not the best choice. The composition is up to you but the images are obviously CGI, and we do not want that in cover art. The main problems are that there a lack of atmospheric regression and the volume of the lower part of the dress and the poor detail on the female hair. Work on those and you have a winner.


obm890 posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 4:28 PM

For the title I think #3 is better.

For the artwork it's looking a bit Poser-ish, I agree with the comment about her hair.  The lighting in the backround image looks pretty interesting, slanting down through the trees like that, but the light on the characters is really flat. Why not use the death-ray thing as the main light source, so the fronts of the characters are lit up and their backs are dark? I think that would add to the drama.

I hope you don't mind, I fiddled with your image in photoshop a bit, it's a bit extreme perhaps (and the guy on the right is disappearing), but I think you get the idea.

I think it is worth taking some pointers from the masters: google "frazetta" and take a look at his paintings, he always pulls your eye into the action, using things like strong contrast and detail, and then he flattens out the detail elsewhere so you don't get distracted by it.



SamTherapy posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 6:01 PM

Honestly, I don't care much for any of them.  They all say "Hey look! There's a Poser render on this cover!"  If you can't tell it's a Poser render, it'll look a million times better.

Maybe postworking it to death would help.  OBM's suggestions are all good.  I'd also consider a different font, or at least a different colour for the title.  The red looks, quite honestly, manky.  It's that horrible pinky/purply/reddish thing that can't quite make up its mind what colour it is.  It may not work but I'd at least try some kind of shiny black marble effect with a fairly obvious bevel.  Yes, it's hackneyed but then, it's a fantasy story, so...  

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rokket posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 6:52 PM

It's extremely difficult to reproduce a painting with Poser, but I think a lot can be done with some careful postwork before you add the text.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 9:07 PM

Only postwork done on this image was a gaussian blur added. It might be a bit dark.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


ShawnDriscoll posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 10:40 PM

It needs awesome lighting and Frazetta poses.

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG


rokket posted Sat, 18 May 2013 at 10:56 PM

Quote - It needs awesome lighting and Frazetta poses.

Yeah, I didn't take too much time with it. But the point was that if you took the time, it could be done.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


ShawnDriscoll posted Sun, 19 May 2013 at 1:18 AM

No.  I mean EClark's.  And yes, I do judge books by their covers.  :)

www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG


rokket posted Sun, 19 May 2013 at 1:56 AM

Quote - No.  I mean EClark's.  And yes, I do judge books by their covers.  :)

Silly me....

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


estherau posted Sun, 19 May 2013 at 9:46 AM

the daylight version needs some shadows where the bloke is standing and his feet meet the ground ie shadows on the ground.

I agree about everyone elses comments.  I've taken to postworking wrinkle's and folds.  I like kurt lundquist's artwork - would make excellent covers.  he does lots of postwork and sometimes no poser at all, but the poser ones with postwork would be more what we would all do I would think.

checkouthis gallery though.

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estherau posted Sun, 19 May 2013 at 9:51 AM

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/full.php?image_id=2440352

oops spelt a few names wrongly.  lundqvist I think...

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Zev0 posted Sun, 19 May 2013 at 1:43 PM

I myself dislike 3d renders for Covers. It needs to be really well done or stylized in order to work. And that font used is no good. Also eliminate the stroke on the words. Typography can say alot about a book. It is just as important as the image used. Sometimes a plain font can even work, but it must be the right one.

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RedPhantom posted Sun, 19 May 2013 at 6:01 PM Online Now! Site Admin

To me the font looks like a comic book.(this is for eclarks cover)

I'm looking more at the last 2 because the first one looks squished to me and I don't want to comment on something that is only there because of the distortion

The poses look very calm. I'm assuming this is suposed to be a fight, or an attack, but man with the cape is just standing still there doesn't seem to be any threat  or responce from him. The other 2 also lack drama. They need more movement.The swordsman looks almost like he's playing baseball.

The shine on her hair isn't right. It looks plastic.

The guy being attacked is too hidden by the spell. I'm not even 100% sure if it is a man though his waist and clothes do seem to be. Maybe that's intentional? Don't want to give away who it is too soon?

Also both men are cut off but there is a big empty space in the middle. Seeing more of the swordsman might help the pose look better.

But it's not all bad.

The background really looks good. I like the rays of light in the trees.

I do see folds in the skirt which do seem natural on a heavy cloth.

The swordsman's hair looks very good, lifelike.

 


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rokket posted Sun, 19 May 2013 at 6:23 PM

A handy guide for anyone making renders, taking pictures, video taping, illustration:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thirds

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


Klebnor posted Sun, 19 May 2013 at 6:45 PM

Postworkshop

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rokket posted Sun, 19 May 2013 at 10:47 PM

@EClark:

I am operating under the assumption that these were just quick renders to get some ideas flowing.

Quote - Anyway, I decided to  do three book covers just to give myself some ideas of the cover art and what the titles should look like and I'd like your opinion.

With that in mind, I humbly submit this for your consideration. It was a couple hours work and I used 4 different programs to arrive at the final image.

Since I don't have the characters or props that you have, I used Sydney, Ryan, the midieval clothing for Ryan, a gown I made for Sydney, and Dryjack's cottage ruins. The woods behind are just a background image. The titles and other text were added in Microsoft Office Powerpoint.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket posted Sun, 19 May 2013 at 10:54 PM

Oh yeah... postwork done in GIMP for the spell casting effects. And I forgot to mention the scythe was from Merlin (?)...

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


anupaum posted Sun, 19 May 2013 at 11:20 PM

You need to make your name bigger and more obvious.  This is particularly important for e-books. In general, simpler is better.  Best of luck to you, sir!


lmckenzie posted Mon, 20 May 2013 at 12:00 AM

“With the tools at peoples disposal these days I am surprised so few books have illustrations of any sort.”

I’m pretty sure that production costs have been a factor, don’t know how much they would be with digital stuff today. Also, there’s a lot to be said for leaving things to the reader’s imagination. Imagining how the characters, settings etc. look is part of the fun of reading IMO.. If I were going to illustrate, I’d limit it to perhaps one image to introduce each chapter and maybe a two page centerpiece. I might also limit portraying the characters and too much detail of the main elements, leaving those to the reader to create their own and stick more to broad illustrations of the environment etc.

I do think that a Poser (or any 3D) cover may tend to ‘cheapen’ things a bit unless it’s really top notch. I would perhaps look for a decent 2D artist who could do something nice, maybe just/mainly for the exposure. I’s probably just individual taste but I think I would generally view a painted cover more favorably. The alternative, as has been mentioned, is a lot of judicious postwork to tone down the 3D look. One great advantage of digital publishing ( I assume) is that it can put the self-published author on more of an equal footing with more established authors. I’d want my cover to look as professional as possible. How much that affects sales I don’t know and tastes may be changing as well.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


EClark1894 posted Mon, 20 May 2013 at 8:46 AM

As Rokket assumed, the artwork so far was just to give me some idea  of what it would look like. It's far from a finished piece.

That said, I will take your points into consideration and give you another look soon.




EClark1894 posted Mon, 20 May 2013 at 10:26 AM

Maybe I'm just not a big Frazetta fan. I mean, looks like some of DM's stuff would work for that look, but I'm not sure that's the kind of look I want.




mattymanx posted Mon, 20 May 2013 at 10:35 AM

EClark, hire someone to do the covers for you - http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?username=isikol


rokket posted Mon, 20 May 2013 at 12:41 PM

Quote - EClark, hire someone to do the covers for you - [ http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?username=isikol/quote] Wow!!! I would love to learn how he does it. He is a true Poser artist. I know there is a ton of post work done on those images, but even before all that, you have to get the lighting and composition right. Amazing stuff there.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


mattymanx posted Mon, 20 May 2013 at 12:53 PM

Quote - > Quote - EClark, hire someone to do the covers for you - [ http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?username=isikol/quote] Wow!!! I would love to learn how he does it. He is a true Poser artist. I know there is a ton of post work done on those images, but even before all that, you have to get the lighting and composition right. Amazing stuff there.

 

Considering he does not rely on Poser alone, I would not call him a poser artist anymore then I would a PS artist.  But I will without a doubt call him a really good artist.


anupaum posted Mon, 20 May 2013 at 1:14 PM

I do my own covers. You have to be careful about online sales, because what looks good on a 6 X 9 trade copy may not look very good--or appear very legible--in a thumbnail.

A good example of this is my cover for "Ceremonies and Celebrations." The text is beautiful in a full-sized book, but I sell 100 e-books for every paperback copy. If you want people to notice, the title of the book and your name must be prominent.

I'll post the e-book version in the next message. Please notice the difference between the two images. The e-book version is zoomed in, the text is larger and done in a contrasting color. This is REALLY important if you want to get noticed.


anupaum posted Mon, 20 May 2013 at 1:15 PM

This is the e-book version of the same cover.

bucknyne posted Mon, 20 May 2013 at 5:16 PM

I'd have to second Mattymanx. Poser does, in theory, allow everyone to have access to the tools they need to do their own illustrations, but you need a certain gift and skillset in order to be able to do so at a professional level. If I saw any of these covers in a bookstore, I'd probably look because I'm a Poser user and I'd be morbidly fascinated, but to most people it just looks like really cheap CG (which it sorta is).


lmckenzie posted Tue, 21 May 2013 at 2:22 AM

I think concept is important as well. Oftentimes, a cover doesn't necessarily depic a literal scene from the story. It may be a single element or stylized theme. It may be somewhat of a specialized art.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


AetherDream posted Tue, 21 May 2013 at 1:32 PM

I think creating a cover for self published work in poser can work just fine. Have you explored options with some filters in the 2D programs for postwork? If you gave a little bit of a 3D element to the font and used a more subdued font color it might match the scene a little better.

"People who attempt define what art is or is not, are not artists"---Luminescence


Keith posted Tue, 21 May 2013 at 2:23 PM

Quote - I'd have to second Mattymanx. Poser does, in theory, allow everyone to have access to the tools they need to do their own illustrations, but you need a certain gift and skillset in order to be able to do so at a professional level. If I saw any of these covers in a bookstore, I'd probably look because I'm a Poser user and I'd be morbidly fascinated, but to most people it just looks like really cheap CG (which it sorta is).

 

If you want to see a professional cover artist who uses Poser and DS in their art, check out Kurt Miller (http://www.kmistudio.com). If you look at the cover art he's done the covers for "Claws That Catch", "Tau Ceti Agenda", "East of the Sun and West of the Moon" and a bunch of the others in his gallery have some very recognizable items for anyone who has been around Poser for a while.



EClark1894 posted Tue, 21 May 2013 at 3:41 PM

For the record, I do appreciate all the critiques and opinions. Still, as I haven't even finished writing the book yet, i have a little time to experiment.

I redid the cover a bit here.




SamTherapy posted Tue, 21 May 2013 at 5:34 PM

Certainly looks a lot better.  The female figure is a definite improvement, although the fingers on the right hand look weird.  The male figure needs some heavy postwork on the clothes to give 'em some realistic wrinkles and folds.

I agree with one of the earlier posts about losing the stroke on the text, though.  Or, at least, lose it on the "by Earl Clark" bits and reduce it on the "Book One".  

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rokket posted Tue, 21 May 2013 at 6:03 PM

Quote - The female figure is a definite improvement, although the fingers on the right hand look weird.

Using symetry and forgetting the mirror morphs. I do that ALL the time...

BTW, nice work Earl. Big improvement. I know by the time your book is released, you'll have it down.

I took a look at that Kurt Miller art work, and the one thing that I see prominent in his art that is missing in most of ours is perspective. His images have depth to them, which is missing in a lot of Poser renders. I am inclined to believe there is a lot of post work done with layers in PS or GIMP.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


estherau posted Tue, 21 May 2013 at 7:05 PM

oh I like that pic so much better!! I agree you could just get the light and dark brush and maybe the smudge tool and make a few little wrinkles and folds on the clothes.  I don't agree that you have to do it heavily.  just one spot would draw the eye to it.

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lmckenzie posted Tue, 21 May 2013 at 11:08 PM

Ditto on tremendous improvement. Like Sam, I'd cut back on the text effect. Just my take, I might reduce the intensity of the spell effect on the right side, make it a bit more translucent. As it stands, it looks almost like a split screen to my eye.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


EClark1894 posted Wed, 22 May 2013 at 10:49 AM

The spell effect is actually part of a Particles Sampler I got from DAZ years ago, but you can tweak it a bit more.

The fingers was basically just an oversight on my part.

And the dress is the Morphing Fantasy Dress from DAZ. So I was using the morphs already included, but I thing I might give it a try in the Cloth room and see what happens.

I'll give the text another looksee too.




estherau posted Wed, 22 May 2013 at 8:02 PM

don't change the fingers too much as I quite like them.

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EClark1894 posted Thu, 23 May 2013 at 2:40 PM

Okay, so took the strokes on the lettering down to one or nothing.

Fixed the fingers on the female figure.

Evened out the spell effect around the girl.

And took his tunic and her dress into the cloth room.




SamTherapy posted Thu, 23 May 2013 at 2:44 PM

Definitely getting better and better.  

The guy's tunic doesn't have enough creases and wrinkles, though.  In around the elbow and armpit where the fabric gets folded up and pulled about, there should be quite a bit more.

The word "Emissary" looks too fussy with the effect you have, for the size of the font.  

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lmckenzie posted Fri, 24 May 2013 at 12:53 AM

"The word "Emissary" looks too fussy with the effect you have, for the size of the font."

Agree on that - maybe one text effect to many. Rather than going for the gray, I'd try picking up some of the color of the spell effect and remove or tone down the embossed effect. The red outline really makes the title pop, maybe do that on the author part as well. As it stands, you have (4) white/red outline, white/black outline, gray embossed and grayish it looks like on Book One(?). Very nice overall though! * *

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


rokket posted Fri, 24 May 2013 at 1:12 AM

I would arrange the title differently. If I understand you, this is book one, about the female character, whom is referrred to as the Emissary.

To me, your book title should read like this:

Spellcaster

Book One

Emissary

Written the way you have it, this is book one of Spellcaster Emissary the way I read it. But maybe I am the only one to see it that way, and it's late at night and I should be asleep and .......

Other than the aforementioned wrinkles on the male clothing, and the effects on the word emissary, you have a very catchy book cover.

 

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


EClark1894 posted Sat, 25 May 2013 at 9:55 AM

Reposed the male figure and took out somde of the text effects.




anupaum posted Sat, 25 May 2013 at 10:14 AM

The text is more clear this way. I still think your name needs to be bigger, but kudos to you for persisting with this.


EClark1894 posted Sat, 25 May 2013 at 10:26 AM

Quote - The text is more clear this way. I still think your name needs to be bigger, but kudos to you for persisting with this.

 

Okay, is that "bigger" as in larger, or as in more prominent, such as a different color so it doesn't get lost in the background?




anupaum posted Sat, 25 May 2013 at 11:17 AM

Larger text. Try making your name look as long as the title of the book. I think that should be about right.


lmckenzie posted Mon, 27 May 2013 at 5:36 AM

Excellent. I'd maybe lose the "by" since at this size at least, it's pretty hard to read and I think people know that the name is the author. Personally, I'm ambivalent about the author name size, though again, my pref would be maybe a bit of color in the outline or maybe just darker outline somehow. 

I definitely agree with Rokket, the sequence seems backward and should be Spellcaster - Book One -  Emissary, unless this is book one of an Emissary series. I'm assuming there is a Spellcaster - Book Two - Huntress or whatever. You could even play with the look of the book (as opposed to the Series font Emissary in this case), and have it different for each 'book,' keeping the Spellcaster font as the series signature.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


EClark1894 posted Tue, 28 May 2013 at 1:50 PM

Decided to try it your way with the "Book One" stuff.




anupaum posted Tue, 28 May 2013 at 1:51 PM

I think that's better.  This is coming along nicely!

 

:)


EClark1894 posted Tue, 28 May 2013 at 2:01 PM

Yeah, I'm nearly finished with Book One as well. Got to give this a rest, while I start book two.




EClark1894 posted Thu, 30 May 2013 at 9:26 AM

Having a bit of difficultly coming up with something for cover art with Book 2. Here's what I got so far.

So this brings up the question what kind of cover art sells best? Everything in this volume will be aimed at  "the Madridgal Scrolls" which in this story is five different scrolls of a magical nature which gives a spellcaster complete control over either energy(fire), water, earth, air, and time.

Stylistically, I have no problems with this cover, but it doesn't really scream adventure either.




SamTherapy posted Thu, 30 May 2013 at 6:28 PM

The first cover is a million times better with the re-posed male figure.  There's a sense of depth and dynamics which seemed to be missing before.

I really like the look of the second one so far.  Perhaps adding some "mystical" stuff such as skulls and amulets on the desk would help to give the reader an idea of what it's about.  

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RedPhantom posted Thu, 30 May 2013 at 9:15 PM Online Now! Site Admin

I agree with Sam. Right now the image, without reading the title says mystery, suspenceful. While the dark background looks good, adding some people with dramatic poses might add an air of adventure. Putting in more props that fit with the genre might help too.


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lmckenzie posted Fri, 31 May 2013 at 11:30 AM

Maybe some kind of 'vision' faintly in the background. Be careful though, this looks really good as is. My only comment is that I while don't have any idea what fresh, new parchment would look like, this looks kind of like modern paper.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


Gremalkyn posted Fri, 31 May 2013 at 11:48 AM

As a writer, think of your cover art this way:  If a picture tells a thousand words, the cover for Book Two has no action verbs, just passive ones and, as always, context is key.  If I were in a store not having read Book One and saw that cover for Book Two, I would have no context.  "Spellcaster" tells me it has a magical theme, but I thought "Madrigal" was a kind of music, so I would assume (correctly or not) that it is about the magical power of song.  As such, "Spellsinger" would be a better title.

Only by picking it up and reading the bit on the back cover would I possibly have any accurate context - the cover should grab my attention not only with attractive art but with either an overall feel of the story or a specific, important scene from within, as the currently posted cover for Book One does.  As mentioned by others, adding "mood items" or a character in an active pose can do this.


EClark1894 posted Fri, 31 May 2013 at 1:00 PM

For the record, in this case, "Madrigal" is simply the name of the land where this adventure takes place.




anupaum posted Fri, 31 May 2013 at 2:15 PM

Quote - For the record, in this case, "Madrigal" is simply the name of the land where this adventure takes place.

Okay, we know that now. But would a new reader know that? Just something to think over . . .  You've used "Madrigal" as a proper adjective, which is grammatically correct, but confusing because most of us associate "madrigal" with music. "The Scrolls of Madrigal" would remove the ambiguity.

 :)

If you want to portray action, you might consider having a hand reaching for the scrolls, or trying to light them on fire, or something like that. Doing that MIGHT add an element of danger / intrigue to your cover art.


lmckenzie posted Fri, 31 May 2013 at 9:46 PM

"… because most of us associate "madrigal" with music."

Maybe it's just my cynical take on contemporary society, but I do wonder how many people (especially those under 40 or so) have any idea what it means :-)  

 

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


anupaum posted Fri, 31 May 2013 at 10:13 PM

Quote - Maybe it's just my cynical take on contemporary society, but I do wonder how many people (especially those under 40 or so) have any idea what it means :-)

 

Okay, I'm feeling like a fossil right now . . .  I just asked my boys (one is 19, the other 16), and neither of them knew what a madrigal is.

Sigh . . .


EClark1894 posted Sat, 01 June 2013 at 9:35 AM

> Quote - > Quote - Maybe it's just my cynical take on contemporary society, but I do wonder how many people (especially those under 40 or so) have any idea what it means :-) > >   > > Okay, I'm feeling like a fossil right now . . .  I just asked my boys (one is 19, the other 16), and neither of them knew what a madrigal is. > > Sigh . . .

 

Don't sweat it. This is a first draft. I could always just change the name.

That said, and despite the reassurances I've received, I thought I'd change both the name of this book and the cover art.




RedPhantom posted Sat, 01 June 2013 at 11:49 AM Online Now! Site Admin

OK that cover I really like. Is that book available yet? The only problem I found was that the I (from inner) and the L (in spellcaster) looks the same and I wasn't sure what letter the n was so I had a bit of trouble figuring out the word inner. My first thought was laaer and was trying to figure out what that was. Yes I'm a little daft.


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EClark1894 posted Sun, 02 June 2013 at 12:30 PM

Well, maybe I could change the font.




lmckenzie posted Sun, 02 June 2013 at 1:30 PM

Yeah, that font is getting a bit too complicated - the lowercase n looks like an uppercase A. I like the olde style look but maybe look at some alternative fonts of that style IMO.

"Okay, I'm feeling like a fossil right now . . . I just asked my boys (one is 19, the other 16), and neither of them knew what a madrigal is."

LOL. It's probably a class/education/interest thing as well. My hunch is that even among older folks, 'madrigal' was not a common word.

I don't necessarily see anything wrong with an archaic or unfamiliar word in this genre. Lots of fantasy or even sci-fi titles may have strange or even made up words. Hinting that it is a place with something like 'Return to Madrigal' might help, but if I were otherwise interested by the illustration, I don't think the title would put me off. On the contrary, I might be a teeny bit more interested to find out what it was. This title is fine too, though 'sanctum' is another one where I'm not entirely sure how many know it - maybe a high % of genre readers I suppose.  

 

 

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


EClark1894 posted Sun, 02 June 2013 at 1:39 PM

The word's in the dictionary. They can look it up.

Assuming they know what a dictionary is and what it's used for.




Philywebrider posted Sun, 02 June 2013 at 5:23 PM

The pose is very important. Ask somebody to pose for you and take a photo. Use stock images. Check how other artists pose their models.The main thing is to try to get a *natural* looking pose.

Try to add facial expression to your models, (like you did in your first cover). If someone is important enough to put on the cover, don't hide his/her face.

You recieved a lot of good suggestions from the others here. 

Remember you want the same general look/feel on all three covers of your series. You want the reader to be able to identify books two and three as part of a series.

The cover art is extremely important. The cover is what make the reader pick up the book.

Interior illustrations can be a problem. Some publishers just can't do it and the ones who can would be costly.

BTW the is a difference between a publisher who will sell your book and a vantity prees who just prints it. A Vantity press can be very expensive. .


lmckenzie posted Mon, 03 June 2013 at 3:15 AM

"The word's in the dictionary. They can look it up."

LOL, they're all in there - except the ones that aren't. Whether I'd take the time to look it up as opposed to going for the title next to it with an equally attracvtive cover and a title I understood is another matter - depends. If we were talking about *he Best Little Bordello in Texas,*as opposed to the more vernacular wording, I'm guessing the latter would win out. As I said though, in this genre, probably not so much :-) * *

 

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


EClark1894 posted Mon, 03 June 2013 at 10:22 AM

Quote - 1) Try to add facial expression to your models, (like you did in your first cover). If someone is important enough to put on the cover, don't hide his/her face.

  1. Interior illustrations can be a problem. Some publishers just can't do it and the ones who can would be costly.
  1. BTW the is a difference between a publisher who will sell your book and a vantity prees who just prints it. A Vantity press can be very expensive. .
  1. Is that a rule or something? I'm not trying to be funny, but I've seen a number of books where you can barely make out the hero's face.
  1. I'll ask about interior art. If they say no then I won't work it.

  2. I've done one book via print on demand. It wasn't very expensive, but it also wasn't very successful. Of course, I attribute that to a lack of marketing effort on my part.




anupaum posted Mon, 03 June 2013 at 10:31 AM

In my latest book cover, you can't see the hero's face. It really depends on what you're trying to convey, so I don't think that's a hard and fast rule. But, it's generally a good idea because people are drawn to a human face.

As far as interior art is concerned, that's expensive!

The publishing industry has really changed in the past few years. Major book stores are now ordering from catalogs that no longer distinguish between POD books and those put out by publishing houses. Given that publishers generally don't do very much for authors anyway, it doesn't make much sense to go with a publisher if you're not already established with them.

No one really KNOWS how all these changes are impacting the industry. Those of us who write are sort of fumbling around in the dark, looking for a path that leads to some success.

 


Gremalkyn posted Mon, 03 June 2013 at 12:04 PM

Quote - > Quote - 2) Interior illustrations can be a problem. Some publishers just can't do it and the ones who can would be costly.

  1. I'll ask about interior art. If they say no then I won't work it.

Back in the 1980's TSR released some Endless Quest books where you read a bit then decide which page to read next as you explored and fought.  These had interior art on apparently random pages that illustrated where you were or what was happening, but some seem to be unimportant story points while significant battles were just text.

If I were writing a novel and wanted interior art, it would be at the start of every chapter where that part of the story happened in a different location - maps, landscapes, structures, etc.  Rarely would there be any portraits, but the text should have described the main characters well enough that the figure on the horse with the lion emblem - and there would only be one such in the book - would be identifiable without (ever) seeing the face up close regardless of scale in the location's establishing shot.

Example:  Sea voyage.  When the story takes place on a ship, the art would show the vessel - in port or at sea would depend on my mood, probably - but the ship would be the focus, not the passengers / crew.  A close up of the hero standing dramatically or the heroine leaning wistfully would only illustrate a scene in that chapter the way I write things and I would want the art to covey a general feel for the location to help set the mood for the (hopefully) matching text.

If the following chapter also took place in the same location, interior art would not be required unless I introduced either a significant character or object.  In your case, the discovery of the scrolls.  If you want to use art for significance, it should be sparse - one per Act would be good, as more than that would lessen the impact.


Coleman posted Tue, 04 June 2013 at 1:39 AM

Attached Link: Sample book cover

They moved the title down so it begins to cover his hair. The artist would not have liked this, but to have the titling higher would resemble a magazine too much, or gawd forbid ...a comic book title.

Using the silly golden section rule folks swear by but only because they're told to... the arist put the characters faces near the top left corner... but the focus now is not their faces, but his big arm and his long sword.... golden section be damned... all that work the artist did on her hair is lost because the eye is looking at the guy's arm band about to break from his bulging biceps.

The space on the right is left for the background, to sell the windy, passionate  landscape... which, if you notice,forced the cover title artist to have to push the very bottom text over to the right as well so the eye doesn't realize how empty that space on the right truly is.

But, all in all, the one thing this cover does sell very very well is...

THESE are the main characters and THEY are embracing passionately. They are almost kissing....

The cover is asking the prospective reader... will this sexy couple kiss? Buy this book and find out! That is the entire purpose of that cover. It does that one thing very well.

Most of Tolkien's covers don't show any characters, because the land itself is the main character. So, the art has to make the reader want to dive into that fantasy world... "Look at this fascinating landscape... buy this book to find out all about it"

What is the threat your two characters face in your story? Make them face that threat on the cover of the book. These two characters are about to be destroyed by this great threat... they stand back-to-back... or they face the camera courageously, but with awe... as doom is coming at them...

The reader will want to know if they will survive.

Your cover can even have NO background... because it's really only about the characters... these two characters and the great challenge that they must face.

At least from your covers it seems like your two characters are the important subject to lure prospective readers in.

 


lmckenzie posted Tue, 04 June 2013 at 2:46 AM

Totally agree with Gremalkyn & Coleman. 

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken


EClark1894 posted Tue, 04 June 2013 at 10:05 AM

Coleman,

Not disputing anything you said, but I have to say when I look at that Sample Book Cover you linked to I see a Romance novel, not an adventure novel. And that's what I'm after.

 I'm about 50 pages from finishing my first draft on Book One.