With SR1:

Without SR1:

Needless to say, as none of the problems I had with PP-2014 so far was addressed, I un-installed it immediately.

So, make sure to back up your preferences and any modifications you made so far in case you have to roll-back, too.

And check your figures carefully from every side after installing it.

Well, it's not that SM ever made an SR that didn't break something, but so far it never made a figure completely unuseable for me.

Wow !   :-0

What mesh is that in the .jpg  ?

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

"What mesh is that in the .jpg  ?"

3rd Gen DAZ mesh. Modified, of course, but nothing extraordinary.

Both figures are custom sculpted (DAZ morphs & ZBrush), re-rigged and one is weightmapped, the other not.

Must have something to do with normals, as it happens on the raw object file, too. I tried to smooth it out and do some other tricks I have, but it was persistant.

Doesn't happen on "vanilla" David 3 for example, but of course this is way beyond my tolerance threshold for "Poser Peculiarities".

Especially as there was no other performance improvement or flaw fix whatsoever for me. (Tested render speed several times)

Well, SR1 is supposed to fix standard V4's exploding butt, but I didn't bother checking after discovering this. If I really feel the insatiable need to use V4, I either use V4WM or one of my own custom V4s anyway.

:-(

Do your modified .obj have vertex normals in them?  It could be why the vanilla .objs are fine.  I don't think Poser has used normals or smoothing from the obj for a long time and maybe that's the cause of the anomalies (like a subD tweak or something that is causing them to show up).

.

Thank you, Netherworks. I'll check that.

Not feeling like re-installing SR1 right now, but I need to install PP-2014 on my backup laptop anyway, and that'll be a good opportunity to test your idea.

Yeah man, hopefully that will help :)  It's been a while since the discussion has come up but if I'm not mistaken, Poser hasn't used normals information since Poser 3.  It also has the benefit of making the .obj significantly more trim to leave them out.  I do recall issues from normals in back in the good old days.

Anyways, it's a complete guess on my part.  I haven't have a bad case to fiddle with.

I hate to think it's something we (testers) missed so I checked Aiko 3, Victoria 3 and David.  I also checked your WM David offering (thanks for sharing that by the way).  Of course, the WM david is on the cr2 level but that rules it the WM causing it (at least that iteration of it).  The other gen 3's I mentioned all had no issues.

I know we looked at V4 because that was a big part of this SR.  I have had Roxie in there, Cookie, Chip and My Michelle prior to the SR-1 release... along with Jessica and hmm... Alyson 2.

There are quite a few little tweaks under the hood including refresh issues and overlapping fixes for the morphing tool, rendering tweaks, and a nasty python bug where python scripts would lose the current actor when moving the cameras.

.

Thanks again, Netherworks.

I sent you a PM in case you want to have a closer look at the problem.

I really would like to use SR1 even though PP-2014 so far has been remarkeable bug-free right from the start, but not being able to use my custom figures is of course a deal-breaker.

Does Poser email us about SR's updates I didn't get a email.It's not good not knowing.
As far as I know SR1 didn't come with the PP14 download.don't know how to check.
Guess I alt to wait for the SR1.1.

JoePublic : All the customizations you make to others meshes ,
Why don't ya make ya own meshes ?

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

"JoePublic : All the customizations you make to others meshes ,
Why don't ya make ya own meshes ?"

I once made a head in Wings perhaps 12yrs ago and it actually looked mostly like the tutorial, but making a complete figure to the same technical level as the DAZ figures would take me way too long.

Simply don't have the energy left and I don't feel the need to make "my very own figure" as an "artistic statement".

I make a lot of things, but I rather build things not available as 3D objects yet.  :-)

Quote - "What mesh is that in the .jpg  ?"

3rd Gen DAZ mesh. Modified, of course, but nothing extraordinary.

Both figures are custom sculpted (DAZ morphs & ZBrush), re-rigged and one is weightmapped, the other not.

Must have something to do with normals, as it happens on the raw object file, too. I tried to smooth it out and do some other tricks I have, but it was persistant.

Doesn't happen on "vanilla" David 3 for example, but of course this is way beyond my tolerance threshold for "Poser Peculiarities".

Especially as there was no other performance improvement or flaw fix whatsoever for me. (Tested render speed several times)

Well, SR1 is supposed to fix standard V4's exploding butt, but I didn't bother checking after discovering this. If I really feel the insatiable need to use V4, I either use V4WM or one of my own custom V4s anyway.

:-(

exploding butt thing?

wha?

 

Oh please explain as I am about to upgrade. if there is serious issues I may not.

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

Huh.  That looks a bit like the Grouping Tool bug which the Pro Pack had when it was first released.  IIRC, Poser was dropping the last listed polygon in a geomCustom group.  How many polys are affected?    If you omit the line feed at the last line of an obj file, Poser will similarly drop the last listed polygon.  Wondering if smoothing is somehow similarly skipping out on it process too soon.

===========================sigline======================================================

Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking.  He apologizes for this.  He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.

Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below.  His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.

PoserPro-2014 computes magnets differently than previous versions.

As V4 uses a lot of build in JointSmootherMagnets (JSM) to help her bending, this causes her buttocks to enlarge instead of compress when you bend her legs.

So, bluntly said, PP-2014 breaks V4. (As well as all other figures using magnets for rigging)

SR1 gives you an additional magnet checkmark for the cr2, so you can disable the new magnet behaviour on a per figure base.

But it also introduces the mesh shading errors on certain figures as described above.

After further testing on another machine I can say that the bug is definitely related to tweaks SM made to Poser's default skinning method.

It goes away when the figure is switched to the new Unimesh skinning.

BUT, this of course is still no solution as the new Unimesh skinning method breaks ColorCurvators PoseMorphLoader, which I almost use on a daily basis.

(See screenshot).

And if it breaks that, who knows what other essential tools the new skinning might break, too.

The new skinning also changes the mesh appearance slightly, and doesn't work for all older meshes.

It's great to have an alternative skinning method which allows subdivision, but this doesn't mean the old skinning method can be effectively made unuseable.

It needs to be fully functional, especially given the fact that a lot of people still use older figures in lack of a viable set of new figures.

OK, I worked through all the above, and as you know I am also an extreme morpher.
But?
After more magnet horror then I can cope with, I NEVER-EVER use a magnet in a figure.

Magnets belong in a hardware store. Not in a cr2.
And, oh, no, nobody will change my opinion on this one any more.

So my question is;
What happens with a cr2 of YOUR figure when all magnets are removed.

Do a test; delete al magnets, save that cr2, and retest.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

On a side note, I have not seen this in any figure I tested so far with PP2014 SR1.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Vilters, we completely agree on magnets: They are great tools for sculpting but should not be used for rigging.

There are no magnets in any of my re-rigged figures.

My figures are hybrids made out of David3's body and V3RR's head to save polygons.

The body mesh geometry is identical to David 3, but has been of course heavily morphed over the years. No different grouping, just re-rigging.

Older figures use capsule shaped falloff zone, newer are weightmapped.

There are no geometry errors. I checked each "problematic" vertice in Wings3D.

I'll send you a PM,so you can check out the shading error for yourself.

That is OK, I am looking forward to check this.

And very pleased that we are on the same magnet level.

I" ll be home in a hr or so, and check imediately.
I have several Poser versions up to PP2014 SR1,  and other apps installations to compare and troubleshoot.
tony-cross-1959@hotmail.be

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

I'm finding that the SR-1 has done strange things to rendering. If I set up a "final" render in Poser 2014 (at 1600 x 1600 pixels) and let it go all night long, it doesn't get beyond calculating indirect light. (At least, that's what the UI tells me.)  But if I send the render to queue, it will work.

Odd, isn't it?

 

Another bit of info:

The normals show up perfectly fine in Wings3D.

(There are also no errors to be seen in it's preview mode)

Problem found.
Will send a PM after some extra checks.

Something was changed in SR1, but this issue is not an SR1 problem.

Expect PM soon.
Best regards
Tony

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - Problem found.
Will send a PM after some extra checks.

Something was changed in SR1, but this issue is not an SR1 problem.

Expect PM soon.
Best regards
Tony

 

PM ? we want to know to.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Yeah. Please share the solution.

No solution, yet.

Vilters noticed that the mesh is unwelded and not perfectly symmetrical, but I don't think that's the root of the current shader problem.

Remember, PP-2012 and vanilla PP-2014 had no problems with the figures. Only SR1 found a few vertices it refused to digest.

All 3rd gen DAZ meshes unweld when exported from Poser, but they re-weld fine once you turn them back into a figure.

(And before someone says it, if you import the original DAZ geometry into Wings, it gets split into hundreds of tiny groups scattered all over the mesh, so I need to use the exported file to preserve the original grouping.)

And the slight asymmetry is caused by rounding errors between ZBrush, Wings3D, PoseMorphLoader and the Poser object ex/importer. Poor thing must have been ex- and imported a few hundred times in the last ten years.

Never bothered to fix it as real humans aren't perfectly symmetric, either.

(Actually several faces I sculpted I made intentionally asymmetric to add a bit of personality.

:-)

 

 Joe

So this does not actually RUIN your meshes so much as introduce a rendering error.

I hope there is a fix for you. I don't ever recall seeing this issue in any figures I tested.

From what you are saying-it is unlikely others will see this-unless they use your export/import workflow.

That said- I hope Vitters can get your concerns raised on the Mantis bug tracking board.

Eric

Quote - No solution, yet.

Vilters noticed that the mesh is unwelded and not perfectly symmetrical, but I don't think that's the root of the current shader problem.

Remember, PP-2012 and vanilla PP-2014 had no problems with the figures. Only SR1 found a few vertices it refused to digest.

All 3rd gen DAZ meshes unweld when exported from Poser, but they re-weld fine once you turn them back into a figure.

(And before someone says it, if you import the original DAZ geometry into Wings, it gets split into hundreds of tiny groups scattered all over the mesh, so I need to use the exported file to preserve the original grouping.)

And the slight asymmetry is caused by rounding errors between ZBrush, Wings3D, PoseMorphLoader and the Poser object ex/importer. Poor thing must have been ex- and imported a few hundred times in the last ten years.

Never bothered to fix it as real humans aren't perfectly symmetric, either.

(Actually several faces I sculpted I made intentionally asymmetric to add a bit of personality.

:-)

 

Hmm... in my experience I don't use any import options in Poser (under normal circumstances) and I only export with "Include existing groups in polygon groups" (again under normal circumstance) and I don't have any issues.  If a modeler is splitting the groups, that's something else, of course.

There are parts of the Gen 3 meshes that aren't welded to start with.  Could be the eyeballs for all I know, I haven't investigated what actually would get welded.  But if I export A3's mesh with the settings I posted, I get the same number or unwelded verts as the vanilla A3 mesh.  If Poser was splitting them out there, it would be a difference and a large one.

I'm also not saying that nothing ever got botched from an export from Poser either.  I am confident it happens (but also in modelers too).

Anyways, I'm hoping for a resolution to the anomalies in your figures, JP, I do lurk around and I realize you have put a lot of work into them. :)

.

Here are two copys of the default David geometry exported as a mesh out of Poser.

I choose "Include Body Part Names in Polygon Groups" for one and "Include Existing Groups in Polygon Groups" for the other.

As some smoothing with the MorphBrush quickly reveals, the mesh is split.

But once it's turned back into a figure, Poser welds it all back together.

Welding it during export or import, or inbetween in a modeller, will change the vertex order, and so make all previous morphs unuseable.

If I need to work on an actual welded mesh (Like for making JCMs), I use PoseMorphLoader.

Poser never had a problem with that workflow, so, no, I'm pretty sure the welding/unwelding really isn't part of the problem.

Okay, I just tried and there was no split with the morph brush...

I brought David in (no import options - blDavid.obj) and played with the morph brush, smooth and such, no splits.

I exported that obj out (tmpExport.obj) only "Include existing groups in polygon groups" then imported that.  Still same thing - used pull, used smooth.  I didn't get any splits.

.

Ah, yes, the original blDavid.obj. That of course is welded.

But as I said, if I use that in Wings, it's split into a gazillion groups.

So, my "work-object" is always a geometry file I export from a fully zeroed figure out of Poser. Which Poser splits during the export.

(I shouldn't have said "default David geometry" as that suggests I was using the original blDavid.obj)

(Except for the PML files, which are exported welded without grouping)

Also, a lot of my figures are custom made hybrids, so there is no original pre-welded DAZ object file to start with.

Yeah and you are right, if you re-weld them at this point, the vertex count will change, sabotaging the morph targets.  I don't even think trying to bring the uvs across from the old to your new version, if welded, would even work.  Then when you go back in Wings, it sounds like that's over with anyways.

.

Poser is a harsh mistress.  :-)

You don't do everything exaclty as she wants it, everything goes wahoonie shaped.

But usually especially Wings3D plays very well with Poser. If a mesh looks good in Wings3D, it will look good in Poser, too.

BTW, before there was PML and ZBrush and the MorphBrush, I did most morphing with magnets. Sometimes several dozends at a time. Lol.

And I morphed a lot in Wings, despite the split mesh. The secret is to "stitch" the mesh back together without actually welding it by scaling the vertices.

Unbelieveable tedious to stitch Vicky's or David's hand or head back on if they were split, but it worked.

Modifying a mesh is so incredibly easy now.

Does that happen with Victoria4 and Michael4 too?

I've never really messed with DAZ's 3rd 4th generation unimeshes meshes.
I'm use to SubD meshes. like Genesis.Rex,Rox's etc etc.

I remember from the old days that V1 Possetta had a vertice that was not welded togeather think it's around her gen's between her legs.
Jump to genesis there's a few vertices not welded think there in one of the forearms.
or maybe it's unwelded edges. I just know the mesh is off.

I found this out when I had genisis in zBrush posed and symmetry didn't work.
I don't have 3rd 4th generation unimeshes meshes loaded.
u could check any mesh with zBrushes symmetry.

But unwelded vertices would not cause me a lot of grief with game style meshes.
But unwelded vertices would cause SubD meshes a lot of grief in any app.
or unwelded edges.

I remember it was easy to have stacked edges in LW 7 if you didn't watch what you where doing.
LW 7 was what 3rd generation was finished in.

Poser Pro 14 with SubD's changed the game.

There's wing,hex ,blender all free maybe one would do or show what the other don't 

 

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Hi, I had  opened a bug for this but I think it got lost. Or I didnt promote the bug enough.

There is a bug in the python API for the new skinning, I think.

Posers export function is also affected.

The functions that tell vertex positions have now a different behaviour when asked for world coordinates. This affects weld vertices.  In classic skinning both vertices involved in a weld receive the same world coordinate (=after weld) but in the unimesh skinning, you receive the before-weld (unwelded) coordinates. This is the deviation that my exporter detects.

In classic skin its all good so I suppose its better to switch back to classic skin when using PML (can you switch back and forth without loosing data?)

 

this is seriously making me rethink purchasing pp2014 right now.

.<!!

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

"In classic skin its all good so I suppose its better to switch back to classic skin when using PML (can you switch back and forth without loosing data?)"

That's what I'm afraid of.

If I have to switch to "Unimesh" skinning, what will that do to my cr2's ?

Will it mess with the other tools I regularly use to modify my figures ?

If I have to constantly switch back whenever I use PML, (Which I do use very, very often), will that "degrade" my figure over time ?

It took 13 years to develop that group of figures. I definitely won't give it up or start new just because Poser decides they aren't good enough anymore.

But I'm still hopeful this can be fixed one way or the other.

Quote - this is seriously making me rethink purchasing pp2014 right now.

.<!!

 

It's just a little bug ya might not ever see sr2 will probably fix

I have no regrets getting Poser Pro 14

and would strongly advice to anyone to get Poser Pro 14

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

"It's just a little bug ya might not ever see sr2 will probably fix"

Sorry if I disagree, but this "little bug" affects ALL MY FIGURES.

As I neither plan to start doing postwork nor rendering clothed figures only, this basically makes Poser unuseable for me.

Actually it gets even worse, as even Vanilla PP-2014 introduced a rendering error THAT WAS NOT THERE BEFORE.

Even though it is much smaller than the one intrduced by SR1, it is equally totally unacceptable. I go to great lenghts so that my figures look as realistic and render as perfect as possible. I spend weeks rigging and creating JCMs so they bend natural.

I won't accept any flaw that was introduced to push subdivided low res meshes.

This flaw has to go 100% away.

Let me show you:

PP-2012 render. PERFECT thighs.

PP-2014 VANILLA.

Thighs suddenly show "pimples".

PP-2014 SR1. The "pimples" have grown to big black spots.

All figures set to "Unimesh skinning":

The thighs are perfectly smooth again.

But now ColorCuvators PML stops working and what will the new skinning do to other tools I use to maky my figures ?

I'm not yet sure what really happens if PML is used with new skinning.  With a bit luck the check is just overreacting. But its not easy to check. Many parts of the program are using the functions in question. My theory is that the figure skinning doesnt change the content of the figure, at least not morph-wise. You could make the morphs on a classic-skinned copy of your figures, and use the injection pose writer (and the new injection pose loader) script to copy the morph data into the figure with the unimesh skinning. Then you do not have to switch.

OK I am having a broken issue too since I ran Poser 2014 SR1 update this morning.

I used the figure Sydney G2 and am using the G2Fem_Shirt with her.

I have tried this 2 ways. The first was when I conformed the shirt to her before posing her and I had the same results.

Then I tried to pose her first, loaded the shirt then conformed the shirt to her.

The shirt explodes on both tries! I have attached images for review.

Quote - Does that happen with Victoria4 and Michael4 too?

No it does not.

It happens on custom figures that were created/modified in a specific way.  That doesn't make an excuse for anything in either direction, that is just what the issue is.  It is important and officially being looked into.

.

Quote - OK I am having a broken issue too since I ran Poser 2014 SR1 update this morning.

I used the figure Sydney G2 and am using the G2Fem_Shirt with her.

I have tried this 2 ways. The first was when I conformed the shirt to her before posing her and I had the same results.

Then I tried to pose her first, loaded the shirt then conformed the shirt to her.

The shirt explodes on both tries! I have attached images for review.

EDIT: After research we found that the problem is with the cloth and NOT with PP2014 SR1!!

Disregard or moderators please delete.

 Also-it did not RUIN the figures-they were still perfectly usable-in case someone is wondering if the title suggests that the models themselves were damaged....

Quote - > Quote - Does that happen with Victoria4 and Michael4 too?

No it does not.

It happens on custom figures that were created/modified in a specific way.  That doesn't make an excuse for anything in either direction, that is just what the issue is.  It is important and officially being looked into.

With each new version or new app I half to adapt. some times a little some times alot.
Meshes might get motified ,none ,a little or a lot.
Never seen a app that I couldn't kick it's ass thou.Never will.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - I'm not yet sure what really happens if PML is used with new skinning.  With a bit luck the check is just overreacting. But its not easy to check. Many parts of the program are using the functions in question. My theory is that the figure skinning doesnt change the content of the figure, at least not morph-wise. You could make the morphs on a classic-skinned copy of your figures, and use the injection pose writer (and the new injection pose loader) script to copy the morph data into the figure with the unimesh skinning. Then you do not have to switch.

Hi Col,

I've been using a similar flow for PML in 2014 for Roxie (actually it was part of a flow I developed in the early days of PML so we didn't have to worry about .CR2 issues).

• Revert the figure to classic skinning.
• Do my PML work
• If I like the results, export the figure as a .obj use the "as morph" and "include body part names in polygon groups"
• Reload the .obj as morph with Netherwork's impressive "Morph Imp"

I'm probably being paranoid, but the same flow allows me consolidate multiple morphing sessions as well, which let's me create a "clean" morph.

Hopefully SM can get you fixed up so the "unimesh" skinning method doesn't present a barrier.

-K

 

     When I first started (midway through P6) I got the BugBox butterfly wing set.  It previewed fine, but when rendered it showed a lozenge pattern of darker/lighter areas.  The Bugbox set was made for P4 and P4 Pro Pack.  As of P5, Firefly now perceived the orientation of polygon normals, and it turned out that the Bugbox wings had normals in adjacent polygons facing opposite directions.

     The defect was always there in the mesh, but P4/PP was blind to it, whereas P5 and P6 saw it.  Ticking the normals forward box in the material room is a quick fix, and I still use and enjoy the Bugbox set.

     The stock DAZ figure David (and others) do not show this issue.  JoePublic's highly modified mesh does show it.  The mesh defect was not apparent in earlier versions of Poser, but the fact remains that PP2014 SR1 is only revealing a defect which is present in Joe's modified mesh.

     That said, you can bet that SM are investigating the SR1 Firefly build, looking for any bugs specific to this.

     If you wonder "wouldn't it be better for Firefly to ignore normals orientation?", consider that some recent rendering features -such as SSS- need to consider normals, since they must calculate whether the light is entering or exiting the mesh.

     So, what do you say we all just relax a bit, have a glass of chilled merlot, and wait to see what the SM skunkworks comes up with?

Poser 12, in feet.  

OSes:  Win7Prox64, Win7Ultx64

Silo Pro 2.5.6 64bit, Vue Infinite 2014.7, Genetica 4.0 Studio, UV Mapper Pro, UV Layout Pro, PhotoImpact X3, GIF Animator 5

There is no "defect" in my mesh.

If it were, they wouldn't have worked pefectly fine for the last 13 years, including PP-2012 using SSS, GC and IDL and weightmapping.

Poser just unilaterally changed the rules. (Again)

My modifications consist of a lot of morphing using DAZ morphs, Poser magnets, Wings3D, ZBrush and the MorphBrush and a thorough re-rigging using Poser's native rigging tools.

The only mesh modification was to stitch V3RR's head on David 3's body to get a lighter mesh without loosing body detail.

I used PML as well as Posers' native Wavefront exporter/importer to move the geometry between apps.

The default DAZ morphs still all work, so not a single vertex was changed.

 

The problem is currently looked at and I'm confident it will be as quickly and thoroughly solved as V4's magnet issues were.

So there is no need for doing the blame-game or any spin doctoring.

I'm currently not in the best of moods, so just let the readers decide what conclusions to draw about the facts I presented.

Poser broke it. Poser will hopefully fix it.

If the issue can be fixed by a slight modification to my meshes or adjusting my workflow, I'll happily do that to enjoy the current (and future) improvments Poser will introduce.

That's currently all there is to say.

 

 

EDIT: Joe- I just read your last post. Feel free to ignore mine-but the question holds.

I've found unimesh-subD Level 1 to render faster than Traditional Skinning with Smoothing turned on in the render settings.

I am wondering why you don't simply switch BACK to Poser Traditional Skinning for morph transfer. And unimesh for rendering? I changed an object (clothing) to unimesh- test rendered with different levels of SubD- then changed it back to Poser Traditional- moved a set of morphs to the clothing, conformed and rendered with Traditional skinning, and then test rendered with Unimesh skinning and subD. No problems! Since I seem to be able to do so I am wondering why it is not working for you.

Am I missing something?

Quote - All figures set to "Unimesh skinning":

The thighs are perfectly smooth again.

But now ColorCuvators PML stops working and what will the new skinning do to other tools I use to maky my figures ?

Do you have a similar worklow to JoePublic? If you mutiply export and import objects to Wings3D- it might crop up.

I use Zbrush for my morphs- and have not seen any render issues with objects morphed and and re-imported to Poser2014

Quote - this is seriously making me rethink purchasing pp2014 right now.

.<!!

 A chilled glass of Merlot sounds good! Seachnasaigh- with a name like that I assumed you were in Ireland using a Gaelic name! I've been calling you "Sean" because my odds of spelling seachna.... are small.

Quote -      When I first started (midway through P6) I got the BugBox butterfly wing set.  It previewed fine, but when rendered it showed a lozenge pattern of darker/lighter areas.  The Bugbox set was made for P4 and P4 Pro Pack.  As of P5, Firefly now perceived the orientation of polygon normals, and it turned out that the Bugbox wings had normals in adjacent polygons facing opposite directions.

     The defect was always there in the mesh, but P4/PP was blind to it, whereas P5 and P6 saw it.  Ticking the normals forward box in the material room is a quick fix, and I still use and enjoy the Bugbox set.

     The stock DAZ figure David (and others) do not show this issue.  JoePublic's highly modified mesh does show it.  The mesh defect was not apparent in earlier versions of Poser, but the fact remains that PP2014 SR1 is only revealing a defect which is present in Joe's modified mesh.

     That said, you can bet that SM are investigating the SR1 Firefly build, looking for any bugs specific to this.

     If you wonder "wouldn't it be better for Firefly to ignore normals orientation?", consider that some recent rendering features -such as SSS- need to consider normals, since they must calculate whether the light is entering or exiting the mesh.

     So, what do you say we all just relax a bit, have a glass of chilled merlot, and wait to see what the SM skunkworks comes up with?

(Eric Walters) 

Quote - Seachnasaigh- with a name like that I assumed you were in Ireland using a Gaelic name! I've been calling you "Sean" because my odds of spelling seachna.... are small. 

       Be glad I didn't use a surname from the Welsh line.    Seachnasaigh is pronounced shock'-na-sigh;  it means deflect (a blow) and counterstrike in Irish.  That's Galway (the last stronghold of the seachnasaigh) in the background of my avatar.  After the last Irish kingdom fell to England, my Irish/Danish forebears left for America.  My Scottish/Norwegian line (descended from Robert the Bruce {"thistle"} and from the black Douglas) did likewise.  Much of my blood is of the old Welsh (the remnant of the original Japhethites who lived in Albany before the Anglo-Saxons.   When the English took over the colonies (New York used to be New Amsterdam), my folks crossed the Allegheny mountains to live free.

     This doesn't imply an enmity for Britain;  we are ardent allies, and more respectful of Churchill and Margaret Thatcher than are most Brits.  We just don't want to be subjects.

  Celt and Viking:  a volatile combination!

Poser 12, in feet.  

OSes:  Win7Prox64, Win7Ultx64

Silo Pro 2.5.6 64bit, Vue Infinite 2014.7, Genetica 4.0 Studio, UV Mapper Pro, UV Layout Pro, PhotoImpact X3, GIF Animator 5

Seachnasaigh WOW! You know your history farther back than anyone else I know! Quite an interesting reply-thanks! I've Irish/Scots/Norwegian/English ancestory myself-but I've not a clue of the ancient history. I have heard of your famous ancestors-I've an interest in history.

Eric

Quote - (Eric Walters)  > Quote - Seachnasaigh- with a name like that I assumed you were in Ireland using a Gaelic name! I've been calling you "Sean" because my odds of spelling seachna.... are small. 

       Be glad I didn't use a surname from the Welsh line.    Seachnasaigh is pronounced shock'-na-sigh;  it means deflect (a blow) and counterstrike in Irish.  That's Galway (the last stronghold of the seachnasaigh) in the background of my avatar.  After the last Irish kingdom fell to England, my Irish/Danish forebears left for America.  My Scottish/Norwegian line (descended from Robert the Bruce {"thistle"} and from the black Douglas) did likewise.  Much of my blood is of the old Welsh (the remnant of the original Japhethites who lived in Albany before the Anglo-Saxons.   When the English took over the colonies (New York used to be New Amsterdam), my folks crossed the Allegheny mountains to live free.

     This doesn't imply an enmity for Britain;  we are ardent allies, and more respectful of Churchill and Margaret Thatcher than are most Brits.  We just don't want to be subjects.

  Celt and Viking:  a volatile combination!

Quote - "What mesh is that in the .jpg  ?"

3rd Gen DAZ mesh. Modified, of course, but nothing extraordinary.

Both figures are custom sculpted (DAZ morphs & ZBrush), re-rigged and one is weightmapped, the other not.

Must have something to do with normals, as it happens on the raw object file, too. I tried to smooth it out and do some other tricks I have, but it was persistant.

Doesn't happen on "vanilla" David 3 for example, but of course this is way beyond my tolerance threshold for "Poser Peculiarities".

Especially as there was no other performance improvement or flaw fix whatsoever for me. (Tested render speed several times)

Well, SR1 is supposed to fix standard V4's exploding butt, but I didn't bother checking after discovering this. If I really feel the insatiable need to use V4, I either use V4WM or one of my own custom V4s anyway.

:-(

 

V4's exploding butt??

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"V4's exploding butt??"

V4's buttocks in PP-2012 and earlier:

V4's buttocks in PP-2014. Ouch.

V4's Buttocks in PP-2014 SR1 with the new "Compute Magnets In Worldspace" button deselected.

Why do you think we got an SR1 so quickly ? ;-)

she lost her rondeur?

i deleted all the magnets off Vicky and G2 figures, when i learned M4 didn't have any.

in 32-bit p7, seemed to speed up my preview window when rotating cameras.  if i lost some bewb posing, never missed 'em.  :)

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MistyLara

Her glutes are fully recovered now. She can sit down and take a break- after fighting the dragon in the temple.

Quote - she lost her rondeur?

i deleted all the magnets off Vicky and G2 figures, when i learned M4 didn't have any.

in 32-bit p7, seemed to speed up my preview window when rotating cameras.  if i lost some bewb posing, never missed 'em.  :)

And I'm happy to say that the shading errors that plagued my figures have been resolved, too.

The problem was some crumpling/folding of the double layered pube-trans geometry that must have happened when using the DAZ "pube-gone" morph twice or more times over the years.

The geometry was tucked away out of sight in the buttocks, so there never was a need to see this as a problem. (I'm a bit OCD, but not that OCD to worry about the shape of hidden geometry.)  ;-)

And up to now, Poser didn't care, either.

After some "de-crumpling" and straightening the geometry, Poser was happy again.

My thanks goes out to vilters for pointing me into the right direction.

(And to netherworks for giving moral support. )  :-)

Glad you got it sorted out!

Quote - And I'm happy to say that the shading errors that plagued my figures have been resolved, too.

The problem was some crumpling/folding of the double layered pube-trans geometry that must have happened when using the DAZ "pube-gone" morph twice or more times over the years.

The geometry was tucked away out of sight in the buttocks, so there never was a need to see this as a problem. (I'm a bit OCD, but not that OCD to worry about the shape of hidden geometry.)  ;-)

And up to now, Poser didn't care, either.

After some "de-crumpling" and straightening the geometry, Poser was happy again.

My thanks goes out to vilters for pointing me into the right direction.

(And to netherworks for giving moral support. )  :-)

It's good to know that Poser has become more picky about this sort of thing.  Glad it's sorted.

===========================sigline======================================================

Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking.  He apologizes for this.  He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.

Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below.  His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.

Well, I am just very glad Vilters was able to save the day and that you can return to enjoying Poser!

I wanted to share with you the assessment that I received only a short while ago: the bad (crumpled) geometry combined the SR-1 fix to avoid artifacts when rendering with reflections in certain geometry is what caused the issue to be more visible than in older versions of Poser.

So it has nothing to do with facilitating Sub D or whatnot.  I just thought you might what to know the conclusion that they came to. :)

.

That's good news; I was beginning to think it might be an NSA...back door... :lol:

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“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
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bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Quote - That's good news; I was beginning to think it might be an NSA...back door... :lol:

 

Not sure that they should be looking at Vickys backdoor anyway, after all she is American isn't she.  Which Poses another question, "Are they looking at my characters?" As she is an American working in the UK.  I mean I don't let her use the phone but she is on the Internet a lot.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - And I'm happy to say that the shading errors that plagued my figures have been resolved, too.

The problem was some crumpling/folding of the double layered pube-trans geometry that must have happened when using the DAZ "pube-gone" morph twice or more times over the years.

The geometry was tucked away out of sight in the buttocks, so there never was a need to see this as a problem. (I'm a bit OCD, but not that OCD to worry about the shape of hidden geometry.)  ;-)

And up to now, Poser didn't care, either.

After some "de-crumpling" and straightening the geometry, Poser was happy again.

My thanks goes out to vilters for pointing me into the right direction.

(And to netherworks for giving moral support. )  :-)

Cool.
ya going to make some custome meshes with Rex n Rox ?

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - she lost her rondeur?

i deleted all the magnets off Vicky and G2 figures, when i learned M4 didn't have any.

in 32-bit p7, seemed to speed up my preview window when rotating cameras.  if i lost some bewb posing, never missed 'em.  :)

May I ask, how did you go about deleting all the magnets?  Did this screw up any morphs?

Klebnor

Lotus 123 ~ S-Render ~ OS/2 WARP ~ IBM 8088 / 4.77 Mhz ~ Hercules Ultima graphics, Hitachi 10 MB HDD, 64K RAM, 12 in diagonal CRT Monitor (16 colors / 60 Hz refresh rate), 240 Watt PS, Dual 1.44 MB Floppies, 2 button mouse input device.  Beige horizontal case.  I don't display my unit.

Open her cr2 in a cr2-editor and delete all the base/sphere/zone props.

This of course worsens her bending so you'll need to fix her afterwards by creating additional JCM morphs to compensate.

(If you're serious about this, best to delete then also her original JCMs in Poser so you can start fresh. The various commercial "Fix" morphs available are based on the original rigthat includes the magnets, so they aren't really any help.)

Depends how picky you are about anatomical correct joints.

I deleted the mags from a low res 17k LOD copy of V4, and for standing around in the background she still was fine.

Left with JSM magnets, right without.

Klebnor I would also be interested in that question. I don't like the magnets either and I think M4 poses better, but is there a problem with deleting them?  Like a downside?

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

OK, here we go again. LOL.

Older figures with conventional rigging had their limitations.
Most content creators (including the big 2, SM and DAZ) improved the rigging with magnets and JCM's.

Now, both have gone to W-Mapping but . . . . . . . . . "forgot" to remove the magnets and JCM's.

Let me state this very clear.

If you know how to W-Map and Bulge map a figure, you do NOT need magnets nor JCM's.

How to?
Open the hierarchy editor in Poser and REMOVE all magnets and JCM's.

In PP2014 => Goto  => Figures => Merge All Zones To Weight Maps

Your conventional rigged figure is instantly transformed into a W-Mapped figure.

**Check the bending of all joints.
**
Open the Joint editor to correct any bending problems.

"Paint" the W-Map to correct any bending problems.

And if REQUIRED???? Paint the bulge map.

Done.

 

 

 

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - OK, here we go again. LOL.

Older figures with conventional rigging had their limitations.
Most content creators (including the big 2, SM and DAZ) improved the rigging with magnets and JCM's.

Now, both have gone to W-Mapping but . . . . . . . . . "forgot" to remove the magnets and JCM's.

Let me state this very clear.

If you know how to W-Map and Bulge map a figure, you do NOT need magnets nor JCM's.

How to?
Open the hierarchy editor in Poser and REMOVE all magnets and JCM's.

In PP2014 => Goto  => Figures => Merge All Zones To Weight Maps

Your conventional rigged figure is instantly transformed into a W-Mapped figure.

**Check the bending of all joints.
**
Open the Joint editor to correct any bending problems.

"Paint" the W-Map to correct any bending problems.

And if REQUIRED???? Paint the bulge map.

Done.

 

 

 

 

If you want realistic bending, like JoePublic, Zev0, and myself, who make figure morphs for figures have said, you need JCMs.

It's not that hard to make. Weightmapping alone will not do that and you will not achieve the proper (and sometimes anatomically correct) bending by pulling out JCMs just because you don't like them.

Weighmapping only helps with bending, but doesn't totally correct it. JCMs gives you more control over how that bend will look. Besides if you change the the figure with a custom full body morph, changing the weightmap to fit that new shape will not be an option.

Quote -

May I ask, how did you go about deleting all the magnets?  Did this screw up any morphs?

 

They can be deleted in Scene Fixer; load V4 in an emty scene, go to Delete Many, select Other, and there they are...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

@ Male_M3dia

Part of making a full body morph is to check the bending.

The "trick" is to start off with a good clean mesh, and optimise the bending of the "base" mesh.

Then while making your custom "partial" or "full body morph" to Cross-check your morph with the existing optimised W-and Bulge map of the base mesh.

Adapt the morph, but do not adapt the W-and Bulge map to your morph.

If you have to adapt the W-and Bulge map to your morph, the initial map was not as good as you thought it was. (Or the moprh was not as good as you thought it was.)

Happy Posering.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - @ Male_M3dia

Part of making a full body morph is to check the bending.

The "trick" is to start off with a good clean mesh, and optimise the bending of the "base" mesh.

Then while making your custom "partial" or "full body morph" to Cross-check your morph with the existing optimised W-and Bulge map of the base mesh.

Adapt the morph, but do not adapt the W-and Bulge map to your morph.

If you have to adapt the W-and Bulge map to your morph, the initial map was not as good as you thought it was. (Or the moprh was not as good as you thought it was.)

Happy Posering.

That still will not give the correct bending, especially across extreme morphs and doesn't take in account any future morphs because if you're optimizing the weightmap for the base mesh, as soon as an extreme morph is applied you're going to have to correct it. Also in light of some people wanting to weightmap current figures where the mesh is already set, I don't think what you're offering would be helpful as the mesh may not be "clean".

The most people will be able to do is to weightmap their figures as best they can to the base mesh and as new morphs are applied the will check that shape across a wide range of poses and if there any areas that are problems, a JCM can be dropped in places such as the hips and thigh areas where a bulge map wouldn't correct how the area between the thighs and pelvis area looks when seated or crouched.

Attached Link: David WM Download

The more elaborate the mesh design and the more elaborate the default shape, the more you need JCMs.

A very smooth basic shape with a very low res simple "fishnet" type of topolgy that just circumscribes the default shape will indeed need very few (if any) JCMs.

A highly sculpted figure with an elaborate edgelooped high res mesh (That means areas of varying density across the mesh) will need JCMs both to smooth the mesh as well as to force it into the desired shape. Weight- and Bulgemaps can only move a vertice in-or out. A JCM can move a vertice in any direction so you're even able to create undercuts.

There is also a huge difference whether you want a Poser figure to be just a stylized representation of a human being, or whether it needs to be a perfectly realistic model of a particular human.

Anyway, apart from the DAZ default JCMs (Ellbows, kneecaps), the only JCM I made for David-WM was to smooth the buttock/crotch bend.

I said I won't mind if anyone wants to improve and then re-destribute him, so if anybody feels adventurous, try to make him bend just as well (or better) without any JCMs. (The poses shown here are supplied in the download)