I have big problems with the lighting of this scene, initially I thought it was simple using a skydome (comes with the product - not BB skydome) and infinite light.

actually I have big problems, I can not get proper lighting.

In rendering far (over) it looks pretty good

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

when I hold the shot on victoria is clear that something is missing

filesso due to a flare of light on materials around.

All objects are visible, then depends on lighting.

I just can not find a way to make this a realistic scene.

you help me?

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

Did you change the shaders on Vicky for a better set?  And what exactly are you expecting?  You description is rather vague and not to the point.

for vic i use EZSKin to set speculatiry to 1.5

 

this is the set i always use with no problems...

 

i'm tryng to have a good illumination for structure and vic on different position along the structure.

seems to me it's missing the sun reflection around the scene....

 

i hope you know what i means, it's not simply to explain, this is not my native language.

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

for example, I believe that because of the strong sun should be a shade higher (red arrow) due to the reflection of light.

in the render setting light bounces are 3, they are usually good for my render, but in this case I can not find the solution.

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

That is not necessarily true.  This setup is a high contrast scene, and if you were to take a photograph with a camera, each area will experience a problem with proper exposure.  I see a properly rendered image.  If shadows are your concern, increase the shadow blur radius on the infinite light and increase the shadow min rate to 4x that value.

thanks hborre

 

"and increase the shadow min rate to 4x that value."

please, can you be more clear for this ?

 

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

I am not on my home computer ATM, but it is the second setting under Shadow Blur Rate on your light properties.  This value should be about 4x your blur rate.  For example, if blur is set to 10, increase that rate to 40.  Now I may have the term incorrect because I have no point of reference to be exact until I can access a manual somewhere.  But if you want to control your shadows, the light settings is where to look.

Ok, thank for you help.

light settings are:

 

Shadow Blur Radius
Shadows Samples
Shadows Min Bias

you mean Shadows Min Bias ?

 

Ok, i do some tests and i'll post again some renders.

 

thank.

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

Okay, thank you for the point of reference.  Set your Shadow Blur Radius higher, Shadows Samples to 4x SBR Value, and Shadows Min Bias to at least 0.1.  

Start SBR at 10.

ok, now sun light settings has a sense

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

I just review a copy of the PP2010 manual and I have the following information:

Shadow Blur Radius will control the softness of the shadow edges, the higher the value the less hard edge the shadows will display.

Shadow Samples determines how realistically the shadows will appear: low values will produce graininess, high values, less graininess.

Now, if you want to brighten the shadowed areas, go to the parameters tab and change the shadow intensity to a lower value.  But very carefully with this dial, you may wash out your shadows in other parts of the render.

"go to the parameters tab and change the shadow intensity to a lower value"

thanks

hum... i don't think this is the right way...

this is why if i move VIC to the left (in shadow zone near water) there is not light from right (not direct but bounce from sun light)

 

what i need i a general brightness also in dark zone.

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

this is what I mean

This picture was taken at 6:00 PM

the sun is behind the lens and there is no direct sunlight on the road, but only at the top in the buildings, all the way you see is in the shade, al light you see is totally indirect (see reflex on the cars to understand the scene)

what I can not able to do in my poser scene is what you see in the red arrows and in general in this picture, there is a diffuse brigthness wich is dramatically absent in my poser scene.

I think it should come from skydome more light, but I can not find a compromise in the settings without ruining the shadows or burn skin VIC

The photograph reproduce what should happen in my poser scene.

I hope I explained.

PS i use indirect lights and GC on 2.2

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

I'm also failing to see much of a problem with the image. A camera would show something similar in real life.

Remember that your eyes and brain form a dynamic image processing system that will show something different than what a normal camera which is what the Poser (or any software) cameras are replicating, notyour eyes.

Yes, i know this difference.

The problem is especially when I move the character in the gray area, it becomes a mess, has no reflection, his skin seems flat.

But in the past i have seen a lot of very good rendering no much more different from my picture, made in poser and without postwork. (especially from BB)

so, if there is no way to make a better rendering then mine (and i don't think, i'm a nerd) in poser and without postwork, it's better i go to change my hobby.

if I do not improve this scene, in the future I will have to avoid scenarios like this

always waiting for other good advices as those received so far to come closer to a good scene

meanwhile thanks to everyone.

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

AH, now I understand.  Decrease your Infinite light intensity and double check if the skydome is emitting any ambient light.  The photo example is basically diffuse lighting with very little specular except for reflections.  In that case, your light source would have a more bluish cast.  But your scene is in full sunlight with a high sun angle; your source would be casting a warmer, perhaps, a yellow tone.  I see that you are concerned about occlusion in the shadowed corners; make sure your shadows Min Bias is low (0.1).  

I typically lower the diffuse values on all material zones on all models in a scene, that reduces the amount of diffuse reflection from the surface textures.  Also, you will need to adjust the light intensity.

What is your Infinite light intensiy?

Quote - But in the past i have seen a lot of very good rendering no much more different from my picture, made in poser and without postwork. (especially from BB)

Could you post some examples of this. It will let us help you better.

So hborre, many thanks for first

one step at time:

1 - sky dome setting you suggest ?

 

ps i'm away from pc, here is 20:30pm

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

What I typically do with non-BB skydomes but wish to use those shaders, copy BB's shaders, paste them into the new skydome.  Then I load the image belonging to that skydome into BB's shaders making sure I reset the in and out gamma to 1.  BB's shaders are designed for casting ambient lighting with IDL without guessing which settings to use.

Agree with hborre the problem could be too much light is being generated by the diffuse materials.  I did an experiment with Andy in a "pit" to emulate the alley and as the diffuse lighting was decreased the contrast of the image improved (not suprising). The other point to consider is are you correctly blocking out the light that in reality would be blocked out by walls and buildings behind the camera, this also needs to be done to stop horizontal light coming into the scene (unless of course your scene would really have this light).

Was also looking to see if there was a real world guide to help in setting the diffuse values

Thank to everyone

 

hborre, tomorrow i'll set BB dome as you sad and then i'll come back here with render test.

 

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

Here i'm, goodmorning to everyone (here 08:15 am o'clock)

At this time we don't care about what happens to Vic 4 skin, we only work on main ambient illumination and materials.

First settings:
BB SkyDome with IN and OUT gamma set to 1 and original sky picture.

here is setting panel.

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

**Second settings:**

Sun light settings.

NB there is another light, but it's a Ghost light, it has no effect on the scene, it is invisible

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

**Third settings:**

Material (I have not changed anything, it is as the original project)

 

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

**Step 1 complete:**

Rendering setting and render test:

 

So hborre, tell me if according to your experience there are to do any corrections to settings (light, skydome etc..) which i quoted above:

Then move on to the next step, the materials

Many thanks for your time and your time.

I hope that your commitment to teach me how to light the scene may help me and others firneds to better understand how to work.

I await your news.

PS please, English is not my native language, please try to explain m using simple terms

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

Final render for step1

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

Uncheck the Reflection_Lite-Multi, you do not need that setting in your materials.  

I am noticing the Diffuse_Color chip is gray for the wall sample image you have included in the post.  In my workflow, I change the colored chip for Diffuse_Color to white and change the Diffuse_Value to compensate.  Try a Diffuse_Value = 0.85 first, then adjust with slightly lower values.  My reasoning for this approach is to retain some diffuse lighting reflection for the lighter textures.  Real life material do not reflect diffuse light 100%, some of that light is absorbed and scattered; darker material would give off less diffuse light than lighter material.

Skydome shaders look as it should.

The Step 1 final render looks very good.  I like the progress so far.

Ok, i do new changes you suggested tomorrow and i'll post render result.

Ps did you see the thing i sent you ?

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

What about sun light settings ?

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

Yes, I did.  Will look at it this evening.  

Just noticed the intensity of your sun setting, 500%!  For an outside scene, I think the amount of intensity is too high.  That value is fine for an indoor scene if you want daylight entering through a door or window, but I wouldn't suggest it for strictly outdoor scenarios.  A good start value with IDL and a skydome would be, at best, 80%.  

Ok, thanks again.

but... With a low sun % and a a low value for material... we will have a too darker scene...

i need to do tests...

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

Yes, that is true but if you render with IDL and light emitters where you need them, those reflective surfaces will take care of the lighting.

Thanks hborre, but i thik this is a next step, tomorrow i'll work on material and i'll correct sun %

 

see you tomorrow.

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

Sorry i forgot... To fix material settings as you said me, i'll use scene fixer to set all at once.

what about settings for scene fixer ? Ideas ?

 

thanks again

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

Sent you a PM.  I do have settings and I will try to screencap them for posting soon.

I made the correction of material as a result of hborre great suggestions

expect more tips from hborre to further improve the scene.

I hope that the effort to hborre can be of help to those who follow this post

This is the result.

NB sunlight remained at 500% because the scene is a courtyard, so it is necessary to have a strong sun.

Poser Pro 2014 SR 1 on Windows 7 64 bit
I use IDL, Gamma Correction and EZSkin for all final renders.

Great lighting info for the community. I know those tips will be put to use in my scenes. Maybe I will see some improvement.

"People who attempt define what art is or is not, are not artists"---Luminescence

I apologize for not posting any sooner, but things do come and I have been spending time sorting out the problems with this particular scene.  I am bringing this post up in the forum list to shed some light (no pun intended) on the best approach to illuminate this set.  The following link will explain most of my workflow decisions, and may help others modify theirs to attain better results.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2860523

Illustrations to follow.

Basically, I loaded this model into my runtime, and, with information provided to me, duplicated the scenario and problems the OP is encountering.  Upon examination, I decided to use Snarly's Scenefixer script to reset all the Material Room values to something more realistic than originally provided.  The image is a screencap of my Scenefixer values.  Again, those values are taken from the suggestions posted in the link above.

The only other change I made in terms of render settings is to reduce the intensity on the IDL settings in D3D's Firefly Renderer.  For those unfamiliar with the script, you can see where it is located from the screencap.  

And, as you can see, that intensity is lowered to 0.15 from the default 1.0.  This should make the occlusion more noticeable and realistic in your scene.

However, there is still a very serious problem with the set.

The OP is using 1 infinite light set @ 500% intensity, a value that, IMHO, is far to excessive for the present condicions.  From the original renders, the floor and railings are too bright, almost washing out the texture details.  You will see this type of condition photographically where two extreme exposures need to be balanced out to an acceptable level.  

One approach would involve making multiple photographic exposures and combine the images creating an HDRI.  Might be possible with Poser but if your renders are exceptionally long, not very feasible.

The second approach would add a fill light to brighten the shadow areas as it is done in Hollywood.  This can easily be done in Poser because the low intensity fill light can be set not to cast shadows, yet produce the necessary illumination without washing out any details.  

And I chose the second approach because it is easier to control different conditions.

The sun intensity of the exact scene is set to 80% with an infinity fill light set to 10%.  Rendered with IDL, intensity 0.15%, I perceive this to be a more realistic render.  The fill lighting still needs further adjustments, either a increase in intensity or changing it to a specular light only; the sun can be adjusted also, but I would not increase it's intensity above 100%

These are adjustments I considered with this particular model without reworking the textures to more suitable shaders.