Other than the fact that it is natively supported for both Poser and DS, what are the practical reasons for embracing Dawn for DS? 

I have decided not to purchase G2/V6 because I do not want to buy into that 10-new-base-figures-every-year thing DAZ pushes. 

I have downloaded Dawn and given it a try.  I notice that none of my previously-purchased clothing autofits.  There are minimal morphs.  The Gen4 UVs don't work.  I can't use GenX.  The limitations seem more boundless than the possibilities.

Why would DS users now want to get involved with this?

And why not?? Because she does not appeal to you doesn't mean others don't like her. If you were a developer you would welcome a new market. Most important, Dawn is new, so there will be a couple kinks here and there to be worked out. The fact that there is a Dawn for DS and Dawn for Poser says a lot to me and I appreciate that part.

A new company that is perhaps commited to support and enhance a single new figure for the foreseeable future, versus in the business of creating figure after figure, upgrade after upgrade, that are not all compatible?

Usable versions in Poser and DS, make it easier for content providers to make things for both programs, if you switch between both, like I do?

Widest 3rd party embrace and support of a new figure for Poser that I've seen in a while is exciting to see what is coming (which again, makes it easy to make a "ds" version, and may as a result bring more content providers back to doing so, that were lost in the genesis release era).

These may be some reasons to do so...

BTW, you can auto-fit, you just need a clone.  See tutorial on my site.

For me it's a matter of simplicity. You double-click on the thumbnail and it loads the figure. Like it is for V4. Simplicity is good. Plus, I do like the way the figure is rigged. The neck is split in two section, which makes it for a more natural look. The articulated jaw is verynnice too.

 

So, it comes down to great rigging, simplicity and good looks. What's not to like? :)

Paolo

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If you are already using and invested in DS/Genesis1, I would recommend you stick with that until something actually revolutionary comes about.

If it is not asking too much I would like to request that this thread be focused on practical reasons why DS end-users should embrace this either as an alternative to G2/V6 or as an add-on to Genesis.  

Some will like it just because it is new and not Genesis and not DAZ.  Some will like it just because.  That's fine but not particularily helpful when trying to determine how to proceed as an end-user. 

If vendors embrace it for DS, as well as, Poser, this may be significant because it could provide end-users with an indication where we will need to focus our new investment in content.  For Genesis users, it has not been too much of an issue that vendors continue to support V4 because we can make most of this content work on Genesis.  What about using Dawn content on Genesis?  On V4?  How many vendors will provide Dawn content for Poser and combine that with a "Not tested in DS" on the write-up?

I have already given just a few reasons why-not.  It was helpful to know that autofit can be made to work.  I will take a look and perhaps that one can be scratched off the list...

It would also be helpful to hear from others who have the similar concerns.  Also those who have already found enough practical reasons to cross this bridge, so to speak.  I think, for a lot of us with a great deal of time and money invested in DS and DAZ figures, it is not an easy decision to make.

You can also use Crossdresser and Wardrobe Wizard (if you either have Poser or have the stand alone version of WW) to convert clothing from other characters.

An awful lot of Poser content is quite useable in DS, though textures may need tweaking (or you can use DS shaders for outfits).

Problem is, I don't think anyone can answer this for someone else.  You have to determine if you want to get her (though I recommend that you at least get the base in this next almost-month while she's free) and use her, or not.    I think it's nice to have options.

 

Cheers,
Alisa

RETIRED HiveWire 3D QAV Director

Quote - Other than the fact that it is natively supported for both Poser and DS, what are the practical reasons for embracing Dawn for DS? 

I have decided not to purchase G2/V6 because I do not want to buy into that 10-new-base-figures-every-year thing DAZ pushes. 

I have downloaded Dawn and given it a try.  I notice that none of my previously-purchased clothing autofits.  There are minimal morphs.  The Gen4 UVs don't work.  I can't use GenX.  The limitations seem more boundless than the possibilities.

Why would DS users now want to get involved with this?

Man, There is just something wrong with this Ford carberator, It just wont fit on my Chevy.

You apparently don't know how autofit works, or how figures are UVmapped. The limitations are boundless because you seem to think features design spacifically for Genesis should work on all figures. They don't.

More over it isn't just UVmapping. Genesis has 3 main textures for the body, dawn has 4. So in order to make V4's textures work on Dawn you would have to stretch the arms and legs, which will show, and horendusly.

Autofit works on clones, so Mil3 clothes wont autofit to genesis with out buying the iconic shapes morphs. I've come to the conclusion the mil4 clothes don't autofit worth a flip because I didn't buy the mil4 morphs for genesis {wasn't suposed to need them}. If someone makes a V4 clone for dawn autofit would probably work for V4 clothes.

But this right here is good enough reason for me.

"I have decided not to purchase G2/V6 because I do not want to buy into that 10-new-base-figures-every-year thing DAZ pushes."

Genesis was out for a bit but I didn't have much to spend so I got what I thought was the absolute nesseties for morphs and nothing else. Before I could even get started on buying what I want; which is hirez skins and more base morphs, like the creatures, we had G2F. Bets are before too long we will see G2M, and so on. Personally I don't expect to see any G1 updates despite what DAZ says. But I have said it before I can not aford to toss a couple of hundered at DAZ everytime the dolly flavor changes.

Because I know who is working on Dawn, I have no concerns about it's development. Even though I expect some thing like an Even; male, soon enough {Dawn, evening-Even} ;)

Right now I haven't got a dime to spare because I need to save up to buy a new comp; to replace the one the mobo fried on, but if I had money to spend I would spend it on Dawn long before G1 or G2F.

And the big reason why? I've know Chris Creek for years, he was the artistic soul of DAZ. I certainly have more faith in him then DAZ.

Oh, here http://hivewire3d.com/forum/showthread.php?393-Create-a-V4-Clone-for-Dawn-%28a-tutorial%29 ;)

Of corse it does help that Hivewire isn't trying to shuve some elaborate download and install sytem down my throat, or some too close to DRM clothing commercial system. Mark my words, soon enough you will be getting commercials for clothes that are on sale, in your CMS window when you load G2M. Or watch Studio shut down and not work again because CMS found some piece of content in your studio content folder, er umm my libaray folder, oh no my daz3d libabray, or who knows what is may be called by then, that isn't in you DAZ purches history.

Yes, that is pure pariniod speculation. None the less it's nice that Hivewire gives me credit of having enough intelagence to install content with out help.

{regardless of how badly I spell} :D

 

Quote - > Quote - Other than the fact that it is natively supported for both Poser and DS, what are the practical reasons for embracing Dawn for DS? 

I have decided not to purchase G2/V6 because I do not want to buy into that 10-new-base-figures-every-year thing DAZ pushes. 

I have downloaded Dawn and given it a try.  I notice that none of my previously-purchased clothing autofits.  There are minimal morphs.  The Gen4 UVs don't work.  I can't use GenX.  The limitations seem more boundless than the possibilities.

Why would DS users now want to get involved with this?

Man, There is just something wrong with this Ford carberator, It just wont fit on my Chevy.

You apparently don't know how autofit works, or how figures are UVmapped. The limitations are boundless because you seem to think features design spacifically for Genesis should work on all figures. They don't.

More over it isn't just UVmapping. Genesis has 3 main textures for the body, dawn has 4. So in order to make V4's textures work on Dawn you would have to stretch the arms and legs, which will show, and horendusly.

Autofit works on clones, so Mil3 clothes wont autofit to genesis with out buying the iconic shapes morphs. I've come to the conclusion the mil4 clothes don't autofit worth a flip because I didn't buy the mil4 morphs for genesis {wasn't suposed to need them}. If someone makes a V4 clone for dawn autofit would probably work for V4 clothes.

But this right here is good enough reason for me.

"I have decided not to purchase G2/V6 because I do not want to buy into that 10-new-base-figures-every-year thing DAZ pushes."

Genesis was out for a bit but I didn't have much to spend so I got what I thought was the absolute nesseties for morphs and nothing else. Before I could even get started on buying what I want; which is hirez skins and more base morphs, like the creatures, we had G2F. Bets are before too long we will see G2M, and so on. Personally I don't expect to see any G1 updates despite what DAZ says. But I have said it before I can not aford to toss a couple of hundered at DAZ everytime the dolly flavor changes.

Because I know who is working on Dawn, I have no concerns about it's development. Even though I expect some thing like an Even; male, soon enough {Dawn, evening-Even} ;)

Right now I haven't got a dime to spare because I need to save up to buy a new comp; to replace the one the mobo fried on, but if I had money to spend I would spend it on Dawn long before G1 or G2F.

And the big reason why? I've know Chris Creek for years, he was the artistic soul of DAZ. I certainly have more faith in him then DAZ.

Oh, here http://hivewire3d.com/forum/showthread.php?393-Create-a-V4-Clone-for-Dawn-%28a-tutorial%29 ;)

Of corse it does help that Hivewire isn't trying to shuve some elaborate download and install sytem down my throat, or some too close to DRM clothing commercial system. Mark my words, soon enough you will be getting commercials for clothes that are on sale, in your CMS window when you load G2M. Or watch Studio shut down and not work again because CMS found some piece of content in your studio content folder, er umm my libaray folder, oh no my daz3d libabray, or who knows what is may be called by then, that isn't in you DAZ purches history.

Yes, that is pure pariniod speculation. None the less it's nice that Hivewire gives me credit of having enough intelagence to install content with out help.

{regardless of how badly I spell} :D

 

I think it quite possible to keep this civil without casting aspersions on any individuals level of experience.  I have spent the past two years or so working heavily with autofit in attempting to utilize the pre-Genesis content I own.  Gotten pretty good at it, as a matter of fact (e.g. V3/A3/V4 high heels on Genesis? not much of problem any more). 

Also, I like that DS allows me (when using the various UVs that will work with Genesis) to convert UVs designed for one figure to work with another (via Map Transfer).  In my view it is a major advantage to be able to re-use textures from previous or alternative figures.  

As with most, I do not appreciate having to re-purchase the same content a second time for a new figure unless there is a compelling reason to do it.  Combine the backward compatability of the V4 UVs with GenX, and many Renderosity vendors have been able to sell the their characters for both V4 and Genesis, and, for both DS and Poser.

I agree wholehartedly regarding G2 and M6, A6, H6, S6, F6, V7, M7,..., V23, etc., etc., etc.  But the concerns regarding V23 are relevant for any new character.  I am sure that the Dawn character is well designed and even I can tell that the builder understands DS very well.

Technically, G2/V6 is superior to Genesis.  However, there are many other factors to consider.  And it is these other factors that prevent many of us from buying G2/V6.  Now, if I do find content for G2 that I want, since Sickle Yield has constructed a G2 clone for Genesis, I can still download and use G2 content on Genesis. 

Although I bought both DS 4 Pro and Poser Pro 2012, I spent most of my time learning DS because I liked the Genesis concept.  Like many, I am not happy with the way Genesis was managed.  Especially when it comes to Poser.  But before I spend any money on a new character, I want to be confident it is the going to be money well spent.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Other than the fact that it is natively supported for both Poser and DS, what are the practical reasons for embracing Dawn for DS? 

I have decided not to purchase G2/V6 because I do not want to buy into that 10-new-base-figures-every-year thing DAZ pushes. 

I have downloaded Dawn and given it a try.  I notice that none of my previously-purchased clothing autofits.  There are minimal morphs.  The Gen4 UVs don't work.  I can't use GenX.  The limitations seem more boundless than the possibilities.

Why would DS users now want to get involved with this?

Man, There is just something wrong with this Ford carberator, It just wont fit on my Chevy.

You apparently don't know how autofit works, or how figures are UVmapped. The limitations are boundless because you seem to think features design spacifically for Genesis should work on all figures. They don't.

More over it isn't just UVmapping. Genesis has 3 main textures for the body, dawn has 4. So in order to make V4's textures work on Dawn you would have to stretch the arms and legs, which will show, and horendusly.

Autofit works on clones, so Mil3 clothes wont autofit to genesis with out buying the iconic shapes morphs. I've come to the conclusion the mil4 clothes don't autofit worth a flip because I didn't buy the mil4 morphs for genesis {wasn't suposed to need them}. If someone makes a V4 clone for dawn autofit would probably work for V4 clothes.

But this right here is good enough reason for me.

"I have decided not to purchase G2/V6 because I do not want to buy into that 10-new-base-figures-every-year thing DAZ pushes."

Genesis was out for a bit but I didn't have much to spend so I got what I thought was the absolute nesseties for morphs and nothing else. Before I could even get started on buying what I want; which is hirez skins and more base morphs, like the creatures, we had G2F. Bets are before too long we will see G2M, and so on. Personally I don't expect to see any G1 updates despite what DAZ says. But I have said it before I can not aford to toss a couple of hundered at DAZ everytime the dolly flavor changes.

Because I know who is working on Dawn, I have no concerns about it's development. Even though I expect some thing like an Even; male, soon enough {Dawn, evening-Even} ;)

Right now I haven't got a dime to spare because I need to save up to buy a new comp; to replace the one the mobo fried on, but if I had money to spend I would spend it on Dawn long before G1 or G2F.

And the big reason why? I've know Chris Creek for years, he was the artistic soul of DAZ. I certainly have more faith in him then DAZ.

Oh, here http://hivewire3d.com/forum/showthread.php?393-Create-a-V4-Clone-for-Dawn-%28a-tutorial%29 ;)

Of corse it does help that Hivewire isn't trying to shuve some elaborate download and install sytem down my throat, or some too close to DRM clothing commercial system. Mark my words, soon enough you will be getting commercials for clothes that are on sale, in your CMS window when you load G2M. Or watch Studio shut down and not work again because CMS found some piece of content in your studio content folder, er umm my libaray folder, oh no my daz3d libabray, or who knows what is may be called by then, that isn't in you DAZ purches history.

Yes, that is pure pariniod speculation. None the less it's nice that Hivewire gives me credit of having enough intelagence to install content with out help.

{regardless of how badly I spell} :D

 

I think it quite possible to keep this civil without casting aspersions on any individuals level of experience.  I have spent the past two years or so working heavily with autofit...

  Meant Transfer Utility, of course, not autofit.

I've used Dawn and have gone through the autofit clone tutorial and it does fit quite nicely. You can also convert flat shoes quite easily as shown here with Dawn wearing Rhiannon's Gypsy Boots for V4.

This is what I did. I, did get Gen2, but few clothes. Since Dawn is free and there are free clothes through sites such as ShareCG as well as on HiveWire3d, why not download her and pick up a few clothes and see how it works for you. You can do a minimal investment or actually none at all  if you are just curious.

 

To answer Billb3's question:

DS users could get involved with Dawn for several reasons:

• To have a "fixed-shape" figure that is custom-made to a feminine form in their library. Certain renders might require just that extra bit of detail or features lacking from Genesis and her morphs.

• To keep with new products from a variety of vendors and have widest choice available.

Those are practical reasons (applicable to Genesis 2 figures too). The rest are political/emotional. Let me give some of these:

• To support an alternative 'house" (Important if one is mad at where "mainstream" is leading).
• To share in excitement starting afresh, from a clean slate (do not underestimate the appeal of this one).

You have to decide yourself whether those are important enough to invest several thousands of dollars.

I think that Dawn is much more exciting for Poser users than for DS users. While DS had Genesis, Poser world was stuck with Generation 4 for a very long time. It wasn't bad really - many products of stunning quality appeared during that time - and there's always fun to have widest choice of morphs, clothing, poses, props, etc. - but equally obviously many Poser users were hungry for something truly fresh (and doubted DAZ will ever produce it, DSON notwithstanding).

Also enough time passed from the introduction of V4 to consider a new very heavy investment being reasonable.

Genesis users, however, are experiencing their bit of "XP moment" - many are resisting Genesis 2 and Dawn, because their investment is still very fresh, its full potential unrealized yet, its possibilities inexhausted. For them both G2 and Dawn just came too soon.

And that's entirely reasonable thinking too.

If you look at software market (which has much more experience with generation changes), you'll notice that "compatibility breaks" do not happen more than once in a decade or even two. Arguably the original Genesis had enough of a novelty and functionality to work as a Windows NT/OS X platform shift. But Genesis 2 or Dawn? I doubt it.

A lot depends on when you made your start in this little 3D world of ours. Those, who started with MilWoman or Vic 2 were not responsive to generation 3 lure and made fun of "trillions" of morph files in the runtime needed to use them. They switched to V4 readily though, while many of Gen 3 people couldn't understand how people could buy anything that "ugly". 

If you're among the one's who started with Genesis and now are feeling somewhat left out of all the excitement around Genesis 2 or Dawn - don't worry. Your moment will come with Genesis 3 (or Dawn 2). Then the guys who are currently overexcited about Dawn or Genesis 2 will rant about not seeing reason to splurge on another new figure and you will be able to offer them a free download to test it out. :laugh:

That's how it works, I guess...

"You have to decide yourself whether those are important enough to invest several thousands of dollars." vienastoks

I take it you are buying a comp with the figures preinstalled?

Before I get started here I'm going to assume most everyone know I am sure no freind of DAZ. I'm probably one of the biggest thorns in their side; at least till I got my fanges pulled by being banned.

Yes, the mil4 figure were a round for a comparativly long time. And why not, they worked well and were the state of the art at the time. They were around long enough for me to invest a fair chunk of change; but not even close to a grand, in clothes morphs and hirez skins.

When genesis came out and DAZ introed the autofit system, I was quite happy, I could move my mil4 clothes up to the next gen with no reinvetment. And the uvmap switching ment not have to spend $100 on new hirez skins. But Genesis and autofit had issues. There was new morphs to buy, and it seemed most characters were based off the V5 figure morph forcing people to buy it to use the other characters. That put me off. I'm not buying one morph just so another works, I just wont buy ether. 

While impatiently waiting for DAZ to fix the issues with genesis and autofit a DAZ PA released G2F; and why not? After 2 years of DAZ letting genesis wallow in it's own errors and issues, some one had to do something. Of coarse DAZ was more then happy to take 50% of the money G2F made with no effort on thier part.

So just what is DAZ doing about the issues with autofit? Collecting 50% of the money from PA workarounds for the issues. Which really takes away any motivation DAZ had to fix the issues. Why fix it when you can make a profit selling the workaround?

But much of G2F is just rinse and repeat of G1. So you get G1, toss a few hundered at it and before you have bought a good selection of items for G1, here comes G2F. About the time you start to see a sales slump for G2F items we will see G2M. Rinse repeat. Then when sales start to slump on that we may finally ; if ever, see G1.5. Then G2.5F and so on. I full expect to see new PA versions of the milG figures every time the sales slow for the last.

Now I think that autofit is one of the best features DAZ has come up with in a while. The UVmap swaping is also cool. Weightmapped figures are only new in the Poser/DAZ verce. They have been around for ages in most CG apps. DAZ was just the first company with a commercial release of one. Question is will DAZ ever update/fix autofit? No. DAZ realized real fast that autofit was costing them money, if it worked correctly it would still be costing them money. So no motivation to fix it.

But where does this leave Dawn? In the cat bird seat for people that are fed with DAZ's profit at the expence of customers or Posers locked in figures.

The battle with DAZ and Poser for figure superiority has cost both of them some customers. It seems in their battle they have forgotten what the fight is about, us. Dawn gives us a third viable alturnative. A figure designed by folks that are customer centric and not worried about making the rent for thier condo in floridia.

What we need is a third option to make DAZ and Poser wake up and realize they don't have the content figure maket cornered. Their customers are not captives. No matter how hard DAZ trys to strap customers to Studio with DIM and CMS, we have alturnatives. Alturnatives that don't fall under DAZ's careful screuteny. Alturnatives that don't need apps to help downlaod and install, or apps to actually find that installed content.

Having a third option where you don't have to get tired down to DAZ or buy Poser is a boon.

Quote - ...a DAZ PA released G2F; and why not?...Of coarse DAZ was more then happy to take 50% of the money G2F made with no effort on thier part.

Genesis 2 female is a DAZ Original, and is free as part of the content with DAZ Studio or the DSON Import for Poser.

I'm glad this was corrected. I was too irritated by the fanboy misinformation to reply to it civily. Flame wars often start with such misinformation, either done on purpose or because of a bias so strong that it precludes getting the facts straight.

I think a lot of DS users will continue to use Genesis1 base for the foreseable future for many of their characters due to the flexibility of it. Poser users were unable to get the same level of flexibility from it from what I've seen so I think many of them are mostly interested in something new.

Quote - "You have to decide yourself whether those are important enough to invest several thousands of dollars." vienastoks

I take it you are buying a comp with the figures preinstalled? manleystanley

lol.  I was wondering about that comment.  Get yourself the crossdresser and/or wardrobe wizard plugins for Dawn, grab the freebies people are making, and then add stuff that's for sale.  I suppose people COULD spend thousands of dollars investing in Dawn, but it should be able to be done for far less :)

I use Poser and DS, with DS actually being more the one I use these days other than when I'm testing things in Poser.   Why Dawn for DS users?  Variety is a good reason as far as I'm concerned.  I'm not dumping Genesis, which I LOVE, just adding another option :)

Cheers,
Alisa

RETIRED HiveWire 3D QAV Director

Quote - I take it you are buying a comp with the figures preinstalled?

Quote - lol. I was wondering about that comment.

Hmmm. I mentioned this, because that was how I understood the question by the original poster. It wasn't "which freebies DS users should download?". It was about investment into Dawn, possibly serious.

I try to limit my daily budget to $10, but I fail more often than not. Over the last two years I spent around $10,000 on Gen4 and Genesis stuff, and my wishlist is huge still.

This particular store happens to release over a dozen new products daily. If you did a quick math of what was released for Dawn across several participating stores you'd come to a fairly significant sum.

When you need to lay a foundation for a new figure the expenditure is quite large: base and morphs, a few characters, almost all the clothing (until you've got them for most scenarios) and shoes, some "native" hair, a bunch of poses, etc. That's already several hundred dollars (the "base" bundle for Dawn is something like $45 already,, right?). And it's been just a couple of weeks since Dawn release…

I am aware of the freebies and different tools to convert earlier products for use with newer generations. I use Generation X extensively as well as PoseMaster and built-in DS tools. Unfortunately Crossdresser and Wardrobe Wizard that aproctor mentioned are not available for all users - they're PC only.

I know from my own experience how long it takes for a new figure to acquire its own world to inhabit. Take Genesis, for example. I did a few early tests as soon as DS 4 was released, but didn't render anything final until maybe a half year later. Early clothing was a bit eh… shall we say… OK, just let them rest.

For me personally Genesis "bloomed" only after release of Freak, several monsters, YT5 and Aiko sets, when I could say that I have a range of characters and stuff to do most of what I needed. So before Genesis became fully functional I had to spend at least a couple of thousands.

Don't get me wrong - I know that I could possibly have saved some of this money skipping Hiro 5 and using Hiro 3 shape for Genesis, because it was cheaper. I respect the ingenuity of people who invent free and cheap ways to solve a particular problem. In fact I use their advice all the time, because there's no such thing as "props enough". But hey - we are discussing investment in a new figure on a forum of a store that does business in this as well as providing income for the vendors.

So I was assuming that billb3 was asking about practical reasons to buy things for Dawn, not just get a free base and use converters. Otherwise all this discussion would be kind of pointless.

Quote - I try to limit my daily budget to $10, but I fail more often than not. Over the last two years I spent around $10,000 on Gen4 and Genesis stuff

falls over

 

Cheers,
Alisa

RETIRED HiveWire 3D QAV Director

because unless you write a negative thread about Dawn on the Daz3d forums it will get deleted. If no other reason it makes the new powers that be in Draper aware they are not the only game in town and if they don't want to listem to their customer base someone else will.

What was so great about Gen1 and Gen2? Unless you need a figure that you can turn into an alien or a dog or a squid it's a jack of all trades but a master of none. It was more work than it was worth and more cost to get it to where it was as flexable with generation 4 figures. I'm not speding $125 on morphs so I can do what I was already doing.

 

btw a ford carb will fit on a chevy, you need a cirucs hammer and a heliarch torch

On behalf of myself and others who are serious about asking the original question, thanks to those who have provided considered replies.  After more than a month, I have an answer for myself.  For practical reasons, I have decided I will hold off indefinately on any investment in Dawn content for use in DS.  If I were primarily a Poser user, I am sure I would think differently.

If a somone is able to develop high quality tools for converting Dawn content to Genesis (in DS), then I may start to buy Dawn content for that purpose.

I am also witholding funds for spending on G2 for many of the same reasons. 

I simply haven't found the complelling reasons to spend the money on either of these.  Some of the reasons:

 - I already have a lot of money invested in Genesis & V4/M4 clothing content for use on Genesis.  Unless I see compelling evidence that all V4 content (including high heels and long skirts) can be fitted to Dawn -AND- all Dawn content (including high heels and long skirts) can be fitted to Genesis, I have little desire to invest effort/money on Dawn.

 - I already have a lot of money invested in Genesis & V4/M4 pose presets (mainly for use on Genesis).  Unless I see compelling evidence that poses can be re-used (perhaps using an additional tool such as PoseMaster) on Genesis/Dawn, I have little desire to invest effort/money on Dawn.

 - I already have a lot of time/money invested in Genesis morphs.  I do not wish to spend a lot of additional money on the morphs necessary to get the results I am looking for.

Another word about Dawn content.  Up till now, Renderosity has provided a lot of V4 content which DS users could re-fit for use on Genesis (many of us spent a lot of time figuring out how to get good results).  It concerns me that this source of V4 conent may be drying up with the proliferation of Dawn content.  I hope that someone will see fit to develop a good quality tool for transfering Dawn content to Genesis. 

I'm still trying to figure out a good reason for migrating off of V4 to tell you the truth.  I use Genesis a lot - for everything other than photorealistic humans.  Genesis was a step backwards as far as that.  So DAZ recognized that and came out with G2.  Um, which STILL doesn't offer a whole lot that V4 doesn't with the proper movement morphs.

Can't say that I see Dawn as a significant (significant considering what I have tied up in V4 morphs and characters) either.

Genesis handles morphing chanels a heck of a lot better than V4, other than that...

The major problem with V4 previously regarding clothing was poke through - and collision detection/smoothing modifier took care of a lot of that.

So anyway, my question would be not what Dawn does for DS users, but why any of the newer stuff is enough better than V4 to contemplate moving off that character?

Quote - I have decided not to purchase G2/V6 because I do not want to buy into that 10-new-base-figures-every-year thing DAZ pushes.  Why would DS users now want to get involved with this?

I'm on of those who started with V2 in Poser4. The interface drove me nuts even after a few years of use. When DS came out the interface problems were solved for me. I embraced the DS transitions and spent the $$$. Though many of the changes at DAZ eventually frustrated me to no end I stuck with DS (by then Poser was to expensive for me).  Then when Genisis support shifted so quickly to GF2. That was enough. I waited with the rest of you for Dawn's release and started buying @ all of the 4 stores directly involved.

Now I'm at a point where I'm questioning my decision. Do I love Dawn? Yes. I have no complaints with Dawn or her morphs. The problem I'm having is that the vast majority of the Dawn products to date do not have a DS version or at the least materials. I see beautiful, characters, clothing, eyes, poses, makeup, hair etc. for Poser every morning when I check the stores. I admit I'm getting more and more frustrated for the lack of DS support by many merchants. I want Dawn to be supported as well for us DS users as it is for Poser users. I don't want to go to GF2. But we need more DS support.

If we were getting this kind of support my question would be "Why wouldn't a DS user want to get involved with this (Dawn)."

Quote - > Quote - I have decided not to purchase G2/V6 because I do not want to buy into that 10-new-base-figures-every-year thing DAZ pushes.  Why would DS users now want to get involved with this?

I'm on of those who started with V2 in Poser4. The interface drove me nuts even after a few years of use. When DS came out the interface problems were solved for me. I embraced the DS transitions and spent the $$$. Though many of the changes at DAZ eventually frustrated me to no end I stuck with DS (by then Poser was to expensive for me).  Then when Genisis support shifted so quickly to GF2. That was enough. I waited with the rest of you for Dawn's release and started buying @ all of the 4 stores directly involved.

Now I'm at a point where I'm questioning my decision. Do I love Dawn? Yes. I have no complaints with Dawn or her morphs. The problem I'm having is that the vast majority of the Dawn products to date do not have a DS version or at the least materials. I see beautiful, characters, clothing, eyes, poses, makeup, hair etc. for Poser every morning when I check the stores. I admit I'm getting more and more frustrated for the lack of DS support by many merchants. I want Dawn to be supported as well for us DS users as it is for Poser users. I don't want to go to GF2. But we need more DS support.

If we were getting this kind of support my question would be "Why wouldn't a DS user want to get involved with this (Dawn)."

 

Totally agree, the lack of DS support for Dawn is very disapointing.

I am a Daz user who likes V6 the best but has still bought Dawn content. I like to explore new possibilities and if Daz users buy Dawn things it will make the success of Dawn more likely. As everyone knows there are many, mainly non-Daz figures, which have fallen by the wayside with minimal new products e.g Antonia Polygon, My Michelle, Mikis 3 & 4. So if Dawn gets some support from DS users that has got to be good. 

Quote - I'm still trying to figure out a good reason for migrating off of V4 to tell you the truth.  I use Genesis a lot - for everything other than photorealistic humans.  Genesis was a step backwards as far as that.  So DAZ recognized that and came out with G2.  Um, which STILL doesn't offer a whole lot that V4 doesn't with the proper movement morphs.

Can't say that I see Dawn as a significant (significant considering what I have tied up in V4 morphs and characters) either.

Genesis handles morphing chanels a heck of a lot better than V4, other than that...

The major problem with V4 previously regarding clothing was poke through - and collision detection/smoothing modifier took care of a lot of that.

So anyway, my question would be not what Dawn does for DS users, but why any of the newer stuff is enough better than V4 to contemplate moving off that character?

This is a very good question.  Since post-Gen4 characters arrived, I suspect a lot of people have asked and are still asking themselves the same question.  Certainly, if I knew two years ago what I know now, I would not have purchased DS (yes, I was one of those who purchased DS Pro) and I would not have invested in Genesis.  I already had Poser Pro 2012. Now, unfortunately, it is not that easy or inexpensive to transition the work from DS to Poser.

Although focusing on Genesis, I ended up investing heavily in Gen4 anyway.  But mostly in support of Genesis because I thought Genesis offered a good solution going forward.  So, I have a lot of M4/V4 poses that don't work well.  I have a lot of M4/V4 content that doesn't fit well.

I saw a lot of new, exclusive content for Dawn when it first arrived.  Now?  I still see some new content for Dawn.  But I also see a lot of new content for Gen4.  I doubt this would be case if there was insignificant demand for it. 

These days I spend very little at DAZ, and when I do, it is for typcially for pre-Genesis content or for DS add-ons (shaders, etc.).  I don't buy new content because they are mostly selling G2 stuff now.

Personally, I think backward compatibility is very important to a lot of people.  A lot of us are unwilling to give up the investment already made in purchased content (including poses).  Certainly, we all want improvements.  But not all of us are willing to re-invest and pay a high price in terms of money and time.  

I want to render scenes faster and with higher quality.  But I don't want to spend a lot of time and money on new characters because the payoff just isn't there.

Personally, for me Dawn would be a 'downgrade' coming from Genesis and now G2F and due to that I simply won't invest into this figure. I just don't see any improvement there. The added confusion about products only being developed for Poser or vice versa for Daz doesn't really help. Overall this brought this "Not tested in DAZ Studio." to whole new levels.

In my opinion, for DAZ Studio users there are definitely less incentives to buy into Dawn, at least if Genesis / G2F is used in DAZ Studio, but I can see even people with huge Gen-4 libraries having doubts about switching.

It may be that the latest version of Poser has the tools to support a simple/effective transfer of Dawn clothing content to V4 and vice versa.  If so, that certainly makes Dawn more compelling for those users.  However, many people still have a significant investment in V4 poses and unless there is a tool for that...

As for Genesis, I still like the overall concept of having a unisex figure that can morph into lots of different shapes and still allow the fitted content to morph with it.  I simply think it was not implemented well and this has created issues that are adversely affecting us all. 

Some questions in my mind:

• What would we see now if Genesis had been released with native support for both DS and Poser? I think Dawn is evidence that such a thing is possible.

• What would the effect have been if Genesis had been released as a unisex figure without some of the shortcomings that DAZ is now trying correct?

• What would the effect have been if Genesis had true backward compatibility with Gen4 content/poses?

Quote - ...

• What would we see now if Genesis had been released with native support for both DS and Poser? I think Dawn is evidence that such a thing is possible.

...

You'd see content for Genesis with the "Not tested in DAZ Studio.", "Not DAZ Studio compatible.", "Only tested in Poser.", etc. sentences ;)

To be honest, I don't want to see these.

Dawn uses V4 poses with very little tweaking necessary.  I keep forgetting that and am always amazed when I dig into my vast library of V4 poses and try one.

Quote - However, many people still have a significant investment in V4 poses and unless there is a tool for that...

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Burning within each of us are Fires of Creativity

Satira Capriccio