1. have instancing ability like VUE to dump billions of polygons of content without the software shutting down. Then Poser users would not need VUE for nature scenes. This is the primary aspect of 3d that is holding Poser down... the inability to render big, expansive REALISTIC nature scenes with people able to be posed as easily... as ONLY as easy as Poser itself allows

2. Since Posette and Miki2, all your Poser people have sucked... focus on making very low poly people as background filler... OR... actually invest in a market viable figure to compete with DAZ Genesis... and that won't be in the budget... so, like I said... focus on very low poly background people who can populate massive scenes and be replicated with your new kickass instancing machine. Look at Predatron's successful low poly people. Consider the ability to clothe thousands of Posette 4 people who can be animated with very small computer processing. It makes no sense to offer heavy poly, heavy file size people who suck anyways compared to the competitor... right? Why waste the time and money investment? Offer a low poly medival knight and a low poly business woman and low poly clothed kid, etc... make the Poser peope actually something 100% of your customer base will use instead of like the what''s their names that only 10% of your customers use.

3. Please Please Please take a look at the Poser galleries here and stop listening solely to the Poser forums. How many "I want total photorealism" renders do you see in the galleries? THOSE are the people in the gallery are actually buying stuff. The people in the forums who post a lot mostly don't buy ANYTHING. I did not buy Poser pro 2012 and 2014. Why? Look at the damn galleries. I want the same things the people in the galleries want. How is Renderosity's store staying alive with Genesis products already in the 'clearance' category? Poser and DAZ have screwed the vendors. But buyers would love to be able to buy all a loved vendor's products. If the vendors lose interest, the buyers of Poser will lose interest. The buyers of Poser post in the gallery and rarely say anything in the forums. The galleries tell you exactly what Poser users are buying and using.

4. Either swallow your pride and work to make Genesis work fully in Poser or release a kickass product that gallery artists want to use. I am damn frustrated with all this focus on realism and a product that is worthless with practicality and usefullness in day-to-day

Actually, there are a heck of a lot of people who buy a lot but don't render all that much. The respond to sales, and buy stuff "just in case." A great market to appeal to. Sometimes, I'm that person.

Also, there are people who post in these forums who render images. I am very frequently that person.

I just don't post to the Rendo galleries because unless you have about a thousand followers, almost no one will see/respond to your post. I prefer to post elsewhere.

I wouldn't judge the Poser userbase by the galleries here any more than I would by the forum posts. They both tell part of the story. But only part.

Edit: Oops. As to the rest of your post, indeed. Instancing would be very, very cool. And a focus on low poly people for crowds is a pretty surprising, but probably very clever idea.

Edit again. Dammit. I mean to add, vilters has done some great work with the low poly P4 people. With the right work, they can look quite lovely.

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Hello Coleman.

1; I agree, instancing would make life easy.

2. I agree, Poser should come with some killer default figures, AND with a TON of content to start them off. => First make your figures popular, then start thinking about making money from them. Not the other way around.

3; I partly agree.
You have the "forum gang", you have the "chatroom gang", and you have the "render gang". And the vast majority that does not come here at all.

"Who" or what "gang" is representative for the common average home alone Poser user that just wants to have some quality hobby time? ?

Let us not speak about the "porn gang".  They do not give a damm, as long as it sells.

4; I do NOT agree.
Some years ago DAZ choose its own path.
Genesis and DS belong together.
They left Poser at their own free will, and it is NOT up to SM to correct that at all.

How PP2016 could make a TOn of new buyers? In order of importance:
1- By becoming as end user friendly as possible.
2- By incorporating some killer figures with a ton of content at release.
3- By promoting the application and the new figures by filling up the freestuf area's with items showing off the new capabilities and figures.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

I really hope this does not become another "Poser should support Genesis" thread that quickly repeats all that has gone before and gets locked.

Anyway, much of what you ask would be useful to me but I doubt I am an average Poser user.  I do buy a great deal from Rendo, every month, far too much in fact.  I do a number of renders and occasionally I upload to the gallery so that friends can see what I am playing with this month.  Is my gallery representative of my work, not really.  Is it representative of Poser users generally, who knows, most don't upload renders to any gallery.  Does it represent users who use galleries, clearly it is not, I generally don't do nudes so that is around 50% of any comparison gone immediately.

I don't want 'Photorealistic' as I have often said in the past, my aim is 'believeable, not quite the same thing but I have purchased the last two updates of Poser because of things like SSS and IDL.  They are a small step towards 'Photorealistic' but a nice step towards believeable. 

Finally there are many users that do not buy from vendors but have not abandoned Poser but build thier own and little that SM do is going to change that.   For me SM have got Poser about right and it seems to be in good hands but I doubt much of that has come about from listening to forum users, it is too small a sample to be important.

 

 

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

I know Poser is big in Japan, as SM happened to buy the VS part of e-Frontier only while leaving the Japan half as it was, and as Poser has a Japanese version, and a lot of content definitely is Japan-oriented.

I know Poser is serious in France and Germany, as it has such versions as well.

From the shipload of galleries and artists I happen to be aware of, hardly any of the Japanese / French / German areas are into photorealism or anything alike, and a serious part of the remaining community is into Comics etc too.

When I open the Rendo gallery, showing 30 images on page 1, only one of them can be put in a Poser/Photorealism kind of category. When I filter to Poser-gallery, only 10 out of 30 fit in such a category.

So what's the basis for the assumption that a serious portion of the Poser user base does require improved realism? And what's the basis for the idea that SM doesn't know themselves so people in this forum keep on telling them? I'm just wondering, you kow.

From this forum, and others, I do have the impression that a lot of people have issues utilizing the vast amount of features to their desire. Which suggests that we could do with a set of wizzards guiding us through. Software ones that is, instead of the ones in this forum and around. And perhaps more (accessible) tutorials and manuals. So that's a big YES to Vilters #1 recommendation.

In the meantime, loads of functionality and content and anything else is developed not by SM but by other people. That's bought, incorporated, or available via separate routes. So I would suggest: when you want things to change, feel free to start up something yourself, get it sold around, offer it to SM and you'll get where you want. Like I'm using PhilC's wardrobe wizard, and D3D render scripts, and Paolo's Reality as well as Face-Off's Poserphysics and his Octane plugin as well. And as I did dive into Cloth and Hair Room for three month and published all my findings for free. And as I'm about to finish my first three months investigation on Material Room, and will publish all tuts on that as well pretty soon.

So that's my opinion on the other issues. Let's stop mourning, let's just kickass ourselves and get something done. Poser is worth it.

- - - - - 

Usually I'm wrong. But to be effective and efficient, I don't need to be correct or accurate.

visit www.aRtBeeWeb.nl (works) or Missing Manuals (tutorials & reviews) - both need an update though

I don't know what "instancing" is so I will withhold comment until I find out.

As I understand instancing, if there are 20 identical items in the scene (say, lamp posts) it only loads one geometry and texture, and thus uses a fraction of the memory....

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

@EClark: let me try. When you copy an object in your scene, all those copies have properties of their own, so any adjustment have to be made multiple times. In material, pose, anything. When you "instance" an object instead, then all instances follow the leading object and you have to alter properties, pose, ... only once; the rest will follow.

The downside is that objects will look (too) similar and the result will look as computer generated. So Vue takes serious efforts to make variances when instancing trees into a wood.

Edit: Xpost with WandW. But in addition: the memory-save is in scene-building only. At rendering, all the surface elements need to be there... Watch Vue when rendering out a 1000 tree wood (or the 10.000 plant meadows as in my galleries at the moment).

Personally, I prefer Poser to be good at its own portion of the workflow, instead of doing all the jobs (poorly). When I need instancing, I use Vue. Like I use all the other tools for the trade. But that's me.

- - - - - 

Usually I'm wrong. But to be effective and efficient, I don't need to be correct or accurate.

visit www.aRtBeeWeb.nl (works) or Missing Manuals (tutorials & reviews) - both need an update though

Hmmmm....

 

1. How many people are willing to pony up the $$$ for this? Instancing would require a near total rewrite of the codebase, as it would impact memory management, content management, render prestaging, etc. It would also require scrapping the lighting system as it stands, as studio oriented lighting is pretty worthless in open air environments. And such a system would never be that good; Vue works because they concentrate on environments. SM lacks the development team for this, so if they tried it we would have a broken Poser with a half baked instancing system that costs as much or more than Photoshop does.

2a) Instancing doesn't give you thousands of figures to animate....unless you are having all those figures do exactly the same thing. It is just a trick, not magic. You -still- have memory limitations; in this case, you would be limited to how many discrete 'real', textured characters you could load into system RAM and still leave enough space for the OS and the instancing tables. If the answer is 5 figures, then that is how many you can instance. So it would become very, very apparent that your crowd of thousands is just a crowd of 5, as there would be only 5 motion sets going on.

2b) Low poly figures can be good...but require some serious support work. Sub-d and normal/diaplacement maps are what make them look -good-, which requires some knowledge on how and when. The polygon heavy figures we have evolved in no small part due to the nature of Poser (close up rendering of the human form) and the demand of the user base to have enough polygons to push around to make changes with.

3. 'Look at the galleries'..... and what? Try and come up with a bunch of macros to make something look better with no work? Poser's dev team aren't art critics; they're programmers. The forums are the place where you are supposed to convert ideas to text so others can understand what you need or would like to say. The only other contact pipeline is whatever SM has up. I have not one render in the gallery, and my purchase list stretches back to just after PFO became rosity, and I really have no intention of adding up what the dollar value has been. But my 70+ gig runtime is a hint. And that really isn't fair, vilters. Some of the porn gang turn out excellent content (Davo comes to mind), and some are quick and dirty as you say. Just like far too much of the store here.

4. I've made my feelings plain here.

What SM needs to do is contract with a proven figure provider, stick with them, and =advertise=. It wasn't that DAZ's products were incredible, because they weren't. But they advertised out the yin-yang where it counted.  

How many renders in the galleries use IDL?

How many correct gamma?

How many use dynamic hair?

How many use dynamic cloth? How many would use dynamic cloth if the folks at Poser actually worked on making it useful?!

How many animations are uploaded to the gallery?

What kind of renders are uploaded to the galleries?

I wasn't being flippant about pro forum users not buying content. Most of them have said themselves, even pushed people... not to buy content... they could make themselves. Then why have a store? Renderosity could close right now... then. Why is it needed?

Because 3rd party content keeps this entire market alive.

If 3rd party content stops... Poser sales drop and... stop. Because then it's only the Cinema3d and 3dsMax and Rhino folks who would Poser once in a blue moon project

I see no renders in the gallery of the bloodshot eye in raytrace using gamma correction. These folks posting in the galleries are the ones keeping Poser alive and the renders they do... do NOT require anything above Poser 6 to do what they do.

Poser - bring something useful to make people buy your next product

Thanx for that clarification, aRtBee.

One thing that needs to be improved or go away is the FaceGen part of the Face Room.  It is currently utterly useless for generating face shapes from photos, whilst the current version of the FaceGen demo gives decent results without much user intervention.

 It was one of the reasons I first purchased Poser 7, and fortunately for SM, it wasn't the only reason... :glare:

 

PS Speaking to Coleman's point, I think that people who post in the galleries are also a small but different minority than forum posters.  (I have posted exactly two renders to the gallery here, and may post another soon) People who post there may be representitive of those who purchase content here, but I don't know how representitive they are of Poser users....

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Quote -  

In the meantime, loads of functionality and content and anything else is developed not by SM but by other people. That's bought, incorporated, or available via separate routes. So I would suggest: when you want things to change, feel free to start up something yourself, get it sold around, offer it to SM and you'll get where you want. Like I'm using PhilC's wardrobe wizard, and D3D render scripts, and Paolo's Reality as well as Face-Off's Poserphysics and his Octane plugin as well. And as I did dive into Cloth and Hair Room for three month and published all my findings for free. And as I'm about to finish my first three months investigation on Material Room, and will publish all tuts on that as well pretty soon.

So that's my opinion on the other issues. Let's stop mourning, let's just kickass ourselves and get something done. Poser is worth it.

 

That's a fair point I love Poser but I would find it more difficult without the Camera Panel and Light, Render and Pose dots from Netherworks, the Library and Figure Manager from Shaderworks and a few others that helps make Poser fun and easy to use.  I have them load at start up so I tend to forget how much I have added from 3rd parties.

 

I also use the Batch Material Convert script, again from Netherworks, that way I can place all the Materials in the right folder instead of hunting MAT files in the Pose folder, where they are still placed by some vendors.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote

"If 3rd party content stops, Poser sales drop."

Perhaps, or perhaps not?

Blender is free.
Those that can manage Poser, can manage Blender to build their own content.
And I see lots of Zbrush, Blender, Maya, Lightwave etc users here.

Part of the "creativity", part of the "fun and personal satisfaction", is to build the content yourself.

 

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

@vilters: it depends, that's personal you know. I explicitely stopped modelling about 10 years ago, because it's not my cup of tea, it's a sheer disaster. I picked Poser, Vue and the Adobe kit as my tools, and I'm into scene compo, posing & animation (and hence dynamics), and into lighting / materials / rendering and the various facets of post-work.

So I buy stuff, and modify textures. Sometimes I buy because I like it, sometimes too to reward the makers of the freestuff I use as well. But making content is definitely not part of MY creative process (it would be a serious roadblock instead).

Everyone's different - well, at least I am :-)

- - - - - 

Usually I'm wrong. But to be effective and efficient, I don't need to be correct or accurate.

visit www.aRtBeeWeb.nl (works) or Missing Manuals (tutorials & reviews) - both need an update though

Quote - Instancing would require a near total rewrite of the codebase, as it would impact memory management, content management, render prestaging, etc.

Total rewrite? That's what was also some said to be required for 64 bit, OpenGL, multiple undo, multithreading, OS X, Intel Mac, GI, weight maps and many other things.

Quote - Part of the "creativity", part of the "fun and personal satisfaction", is to build the content yourself.

That's what YOU say!

All teasing aside, Tony, I've spent over $1500 on modeling softwares that ***I can't begin to understand! ***And before everyone starts berating my intelligence, I'm not a dummy. I have degrees in mass communications and film, electrical engineering, and psychology. I've written books. I'm good enough at Poser that people hire me to illustrate for them.

I'm not an idiot, (contrary to popular opinion) but no tutorial I've run across has made Wings understandable to me. Sculptris... Blender... ZBrush... they all make no sense to me! All I wind up with after spending the money and hours and hours of grief is a shapeless nothing!

For my purposes, I can either buy content or go do something other than Poser. 

I doubt I am alone.

Quote - Actually, there are a heck of a lot of people who buy a lot but don't render all that much. The respond to sales, and buy stuff "just in case." A great market to appeal to. Sometimes, I'm that person.

Also, there are people who post in these forums who render images. I am very frequently that person.

I just don't post to the Rendo galleries because unless you have about a thousand followers, almost no one will see/respond to your post. I prefer to post elsewhere.

I wouldn't judge the Poser userbase by the galleries here any more than I would by the forum posts. They both tell part of the story. But only part.

Edit: Oops. As to the rest of your post, indeed. Instancing would be very, very cool. And a focus on low poly people for crowds is a pretty surprising, but probably very clever idea.

Edit again. Dammit. I mean to add, vilters has done some great work with the low poly P4 people. With the right work, they can look quite lovely.

 

I agree with this I am considering stopping posting on Rendo now and primarily moving to my own website , sharecg and Deviantart to show my work now 2 of my recent renders did not even get a single view the only ones where me comming to see if anyone had rated it or viewed it.

so this backs up exactly what you said at the start unless you have a 1000 subscribers no-ones going to see or respond.

Desktop : AMD FX4100 , GT-630 1GB, 4x BD-RE , AOC e2343 23in LED Monitor , 1TB External (120mb/s write speed)(stores my all poser stuff and photo's from camera) and 1TB internal HDD

P2010 , P2012 , P2014 , Reality 3 , Max 2014 , Lightwave 11 , Showcase 2014 

Location : Rainy UK

Website @ www.steadyrabbitdesign.freezoy.com (New site still under construction) & Dev art : Tim2700

Quote - > Quote - Part of the "creativity", part of the "fun and personal satisfaction", is to build the content yourself.

That's what YOU say!

All teasing aside, Tony, I've spent over $1500 on modeling softwares that ***I can't begin to understand! ***And before everyone starts berating my intelligence, I'm not a dummy. I have degrees in mass communications and film, electrical engineering, and psychology. I've written books. I'm good enough at Poser that people hire me to illustrate for them.

I'm not an idiot, (contrary to popular opinion) but no tutorial I've run across has made Wings understandable to me. Sculptris... Blender... ZBrush... they all make no sense to me! All I wind up with after spending the money and hours and hours of grief is a shapeless nothing!

For my purposes, I can either buy content or go do something other than Poser. 

I doubt I am alone.

 

Nope, you are not alone.  I have tried some of the Digital Tailor tutorials and that has been the best for me, that and Silo.  However the most I have done so far is to modify items purchased for my own use.  On the whole I purchase content and then modify the materials either within Poser or, for figures, I use Paint Shop Pro and layers.  I have added scars, tattoos and freckles that way and I enjoy it, good as Silo is I don't get the same buzz from that.

I just cannot see me spending the time to build something that could take me a week (plus the year gaining the skills) and yet I could buy of $10.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - > Quote - Instancing would require a near total rewrite of the codebase, as it would impact memory management, content management, render prestaging, etc.

Total rewrite? That's what was also some said to be required for 64 bit, OpenGL, multiple undo, multithreading, OS X, Intel Mac, GI, weight maps and many other things.

Is this a hint....? :P

And I know it probably wouldn't be a 'total' rewrite; but for what people want whenever they mention instancing (Vue 2014 without the cost and decade of development), it runs a significant chance of being a nightmare to hammer out into a functional feature. Or else an encoded splash screen that pops us with 'You Can't Do This In Poser, Dummy!'.

Which might be a neat easter egg..... 

 

 

[ ]  Instancing would be nice for populating a terrain with trees and bushes.

[ ]  I didn't know that one could upload animations to one's gallery.  What formats are accepted?  (SWF?  GIF?  AVI?  MPEG?)  To the point, I do use Poser for animation - a lot.

[ ]  The trend seems to be toward more complex scenes, rendered with more raytracing tricks, as Firefly is developed and the average computer is more powerful (64bit is now fairly common).  Since processor speeds have plateaued, I'd like to be able to spread the load among all my computers, i.e., give me networking for a single render.

Poser 12, in feet.  

OSes:  Win7Prox64, Win7Ultx64

Silo Pro 2.5.6 64bit, Vue Infinite 2014.7, Genetica 4.0 Studio, UV Mapper Pro, UV Layout Pro, PhotoImpact X3, GIF Animator 5

there's another spectrum of poser user, lol more than a hobby, wanting to make movies, but no money to buy the high end software.  i buy the content that i can, and model when i need something that i can't find pre-made or is too expensive.

iz a temptation to give up on the movie idea, and spend the rest of my life sipping martinis and watching telly. lol

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♥ My Gallery Albums    ♥   My YT   ♥   Party in the CarrarArtists Forum  ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff

Quote - there's another spectrum of poser user, lol more than a hobby, wanting to make movies, but no money to buy the high end software.  i buy the content that i can, and model when i need something that i can't find pre-made or is too expensive.

iz a temptation to give up on the movie idea, and spend the rest of my life sipping martinis and watching telly. lol

I hope not; your new look is quite Gabor-esque...

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

hey, not bad!  SM can add instancing that easy?  

purpose of poser gallery here: display renders of items recently purchased.  when you gotta rush out renders in poser to share with friends, there ain't time for all those arcane render settings, but I still hope they keep improving FFRender, even if caustics are not in next version.

And of course there's people like me. I've been Posering since version 2 and I've never posted to a gallery. I have created web comics though and trust me, I bought damn near everything in it.

Quote - purpose of poser gallery here: display renders of items recently purchased. 

Good point. And it actually works for Renderosity. If I see a product that I want that looks pretty good, even in a crappy render -- particularly if it looks good in a crappy render -- I'm very likely to buy it. But the real temptations come when my favorite artists credit a product. Then I'm like Pavlov's dog on the internet: salivating on my credit card.

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - 3) Please Please Please take a look at the Poser galleries here and stop listening solely to the Poser forums. How many "I want total photorealism" renders do you see in the galleries? THOSE are the people in the gallery are actually buying stuff.

 

That's a lousy metric, if for nothing else than this isn't the only place people post images. In the last two years and a bit, and I just did a count from the gallery on my computer, I've posted over 2700 images online, none of them here. There's maybe a hundred images that haven't been posted publicly (they've been done for someone). And a few I did for commission (under another name). And they use subsurface scattering, and indirect lighting, and all the other "photorealism" tools you apparently are insisting are a waste of time.

1.  http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/movie-sets-81-city-blocks/95693/  This links to dreamlands 81 city block prop at this store.  I have used this in Poser Pro 2012 and it works great.  The neat part is that it is nothing but a bunch of billboards.  RWBY also uses the same trick for their forests.  While it may be neat to have a system that allows a billion/million leaves to be on set at the same time if you make a scene full HD (1920x1080) that is only 2,073,600 pixels so if you have a forest with a million leaves each leave will only get 2 pixels.  There is not much detail in 2 pixels.  The time required to compute those leaves will be hours for what result?  BTW the 81 city blocks prop is about 3.5 miles/5Km across.  How many Poser figures could you get in that scene?

2. There is never going to be a figure that can compete against the IDEAL of V4.  Pay very close attention to the word IDEAL.  The reality of V4.2, notice they had to make three versions of her before they got it right, is it is a so-so figure.  Her only claim to fame is that everyone is on broad with the mantra “Vicky is Perfect”.  This coupled with the notion that a figure can only wear cloths custom tailored to them all feeds into this mindset that we all need to rally around a single figure. 

If you are familiar with Samedi by Netherworks he is a rag doll that somewhat looks like a person.  He has a very large head and fairly small body.  I had to take three Samedi’s and make them walk out to Viper space craft.  I could have tried to convert the spacesuits to make them fit the doll or what I did was conformed the suit to the doll and had a walk cycle created for each pilot.  The bodies were made invisible so there was no poke through.  The scene worked very well and not a lot of time was wasted trying to find something for Samedi that never existed.

My point being that content suppliers and customers need to wake to the fact that custom tailored clothes are becoming less and less needed.  If the clothing is a normal day to day item like pants and a shirt that do not need to be skin tight then with very little work any piece of clothing can be made to fit any figure.  There are some exceptions but if you look at most pictures you will find that to be true.  For skin tight outfits the texture should probably be painted on the figure.  Most of the items that need to show the underlying figure (the item of clothing needing to be translucent) would most likely fall into the bellowing items like haram pants.  Items like the haram pants could be made to fit any figure.  Most of the items I buy are not for the figure listed (unless they are for Poser supplied figures).  I buy items to use with my Poser figures since they can be made to fit.  The added benefit is that my pictures do not have that look and feel as what is posted in the galleries.

If you break it down and step back a pair of pants is created in almost then same manner as a figure.  The biggest difference being that the pants are meant to follow the movements of some other figure.  I can take a pair of pants and make them move around, bend and twist just like the invisible man is wearing them.  So like in the case of Samedi they are conformed to him and the pants move to the commands given the base figure.  It really is as simple as that.

Where does that leave vendors?  In the real world cloths have a very small range of actual patterns, however that is made up for with a wide range of colors/textures.  My need for two dozen pants is small, however my need for different textures for the sets that I do have is much greater.  The vendors that can create a pair of pants and make them fit a wide range of figures with a large selection of textures will probably do OK.  And before we get the argument that you have to put all the morphs into the cloths ahead of time, the same could be said about a new set of morphs that come out after the clothing was created.  That set of clothing will not work with the new morph so what is to be done?  If you have Poser Pro 2014 you can inject those morphs yourself, or wait for the vendor to do it.  That is if the vendor even supports your figure.  Or use the morph brush, or make the figure invisible. 

3.  How many people do you think come to the gallery here?  Maybe 10 thousand? That is probably a very high number.  Go look at Youtube and look at the number of views for RWBY, 2.4 million and that does not count the number of views at Roosters Teeth website.  At the end of each RWBY episode is blurb saying made with Poser.  Which group do you think has a greater impact on the perception of what Poser can do?  Especially if most of the renders here are done using Poser 6 techniques.

 4.  No comment. 

 

Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13

Quote - > Quote - there's another spectrum of poser user, lol more than a hobby, wanting to make movies, but no money to buy the high end software.  i buy the content that i can, and model when i need something that i can't find pre-made or is too expensive.

iz a temptation to give up on the movie idea, and spend the rest of my life sipping martinis and watching telly. lol

I hope not; your new look is quite Gabor-esque...

Aiko 3 luv :wub:  she looks so sad in photographs but i absolutely luv herrr ... whe she smiles

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V4.2 is simply the version that DAZ stopped with. It is by no means perfect or ideal.

seach, they often post animations in freestuff, which may be links to youtube et al.

I useta do anims (gifs) to post here, some in gallery but mostly in forum msgs.  I also stored them as swf on various defunct sites.

I love you Coleman, but you haven't really thought this through. 

To address your items:

1.  VUE is a lanscape program - Poser isn't. Adding instancing would probably require leaving every single bit of legacy content behind - good luck in selling that to the Poser user base.  I would suggest that you open a cr2 or a pp2 file in a text editor and read it sometime. 

2a.  The SM figures aren't designed to be supermodels - they are designed to be NORMAL people - wearing normal clothing.  The biggest difference between V4 & Sydney - V4 has a cottage industry of mesh fixes - Sydney doesn't. 

I prefer the SM figures - but then I am not a third rate Elvgren wannabe.  I have progressed from NVIATWAS.

2b.  Any new figure is going to be met by people deliberately sowing FUD.  Some will be doing it because their business depends on supporting a different figure. * Others will be focusing on making mountains out of molehills on any percieved flaw (In all seriousness, how many people here are making renders of a figure's armpits?).  Still others will be yammering on about how none of us actually need new figures, because any of us can adjust Posette in (modeling program of your choice).  These folks have yet to figure out that most Poser users not only do not have those skill sets, but have absolutely no interest in aquiring them.

2c.  Any new figure success is completely dependant on vendor buy-in.  I'll ask again:

HOW DO YOU PROPOSE TO FORCE THE VENDORS TO SUPPORT A NEW FIGURE?  "I'm an artist, I only make what I am interested in" is the Vendor's battle-cry both here and in other storefronts.  Right along with "I once made a piece of content for <M3, Apollo Maximus, Jessi 1 etc>.  I made a very niche product - it didn't sell (the fact that it was both more expensive and less capable than my other products is irrelevant), therefore I will never make anything for any figure not named V4."

HOW DO YOU PROPOSE TO FORCE THE VENDORS TO SUPPORT NEW FEATURES?  Most vendors are aggressively unwilling to move past the Poser 6 feature set.  The fact that almost the entire user base is using Poser 7 or later is irrelevant to them.  Which btw, is also an issue for your 1st item.  

3.  Why should anyone pay attention to the galleries here?  I have been here almost 10 years now, and today was the first day that I actually spent time in the galleries.  Sturgeon's Law (ninety percent of everything is crap ) applies.

4a.  As far as "Native DSON in Poser" - your suggestion means that DAZ would make the money off content and SM would be stuck with all of the support costs.  This is precisely why SM refused to add DSON to the Poser code-base.  As it currently stands, it only takes about 15 minutes to convert genesis to a Poser native figure - No DSON necessary.

4b.  What does genesis actually add (other than access to Dariofish's HFS aliens?)  All of the characters made for genesis over the past few years look just like their Gen4 predecessors - as does the clothing (idler168 shoes for genesis look great - I have the exact same shoes he made for Miki 1 and P6 Jessi about 8 years ago).

Quote - hey, not bad!  SM can add instancing that easy?  

purpose of poser gallery here: display renders of items recently purchased.  when you gotta rush out renders in poser to share with friends, there ain't time for all those arcane render settings, but I still hope they keep improving FFRender, even if caustics are not in next version.

 

That would certainly cover off the reason for some of the posting in my gallery.  Not sure on the recently though as it can be months, or years, before I use some of my purchases, particularly if they were sale items.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - 2b. Any new figure is going to be met by people deliberately sowing FUD. Some will be doing it because their business depends on supporting a different figure

It's interesting how a person that hasn't sold anything has the insight to tell vendors how they should conduct themselves and sell things when vendors have sales reports and trends to tell them what sells and what doesn't. And you are very incorrect about who should accept the blame on how things are done... And it isn't the vendors mainly... It's those with the purchasing power that dictate how things done.

A vendor can very well set up things to use latest features, but if they only sell 10 copies, guess what? They'll go back to the old ways because they have bills to pay. So it isn't what the vendors should do, it's how you get the customers upgraded to the new tech so vendors can use it.

I've seen quite a few Poser vendors over the years proudly proclaim that they were going to use the features in Poser 9+ and then the customers shut them down by buying nothing, and they're back to Poser 7 compatibility to keep their lights on. So please, focus your rage properly where it needs to go... And figure why most of poser is still stuck on old figures instead of new weightmapped figures. But take the blame off the Poser vendors, they'll only make what the masses want, the incentive to move forward has to come from elsewhere.... I'll leave that to you to figure out. Meanwhile my customer base is on the latest tech, because the company I sell through has figured it out... Don't begrudge me for that.

Anyway, I gotta get off this ship and go through immigration so I can get in my comfortable bed.

Good luck.

I think Poser is pretty amazing as it is.  I use it at work for short animations for aircrew training, and at home for all manner of filthy, sleazy, wierd, perverted and just plain messed up stuff that NO ONE ever sees.

Genesis?, V3?, good ole Vicky 4?, Dawn?....who cares.  Use the one you like and ignore the rest.  Even V3 can look pretty great if done right.

The one failing in my opinion is the lack of a fully detailed, comprehensive and complete manual for both the general user AND content creators.  I've had to buy a few books, download a ton of videos, and scrape together endless tutorials from all over the net to learn how to make my own stuff.  

You can use instancing if you render in Octane

Just load a prop or a figure, define it in the octane plugin as a scatter object, specify the number and randomness (scale, rotation and offset) and optional provide a distribution map. You can do this for multiple props

In the attached image I used a 100K grass objects, 1000 patches of flowers, and 2 different trees (300 and 600). Render time around 2 minutes (depends on your videocards), memory usage for entire scene around 600MB.

But - like Vue - it does come at a cost (for the Octane and the plugin)

**"Then Poser users would not need VUE for nature scenes. This is the primary aspect of 3d that is holding Poser down."**

It is not just the instancing in vue it is the easy to create outdoor daylight& GI renders,in vue ,that dont require some silly "envirodome" prop etc.

"Since Posette and Miki2, all your Poser people have sucked..."

Well that is subjective,P6 James and particularly jessi had great potential.
However much of the user base here IMHO,felt so secure that the latest DAZ Figures would work in poser for eternity,that they largely dismissed the P6 figures and some took much joy in deriding them thus they were never fully realized.

For the first time since its advent I Just spent the last few days experimenting in the poser faceroom with jessi , James and Miki2.
The poser faceroom is  truly the "undiscovered country" IMHO.
It is unfortunate that a "BODY ROOM "of similar capabilities was never developed for the native poser figures but  Oh well another misstep by the owners of poser.

"hey, not bad!  SM can add instancing that easy?  "

I honestly dont see much of a demand in this community
for the ability to render render 400 identical copies
of the that same tree,rock or figure ( see attached)

Even the instancing feature we have in C4D
is somewhat limited.
A "replicator" function like I have in MODO is better better as I can at least VARY the scale and  rotation of the Duplicates for variety.

 

My website

YouTube Channel

There are instancing solutions for Poser using PoserFusion.

In Vue, check to see if the version you have has PoserFusion included. Not all do, but some. Vue's instancing is quite good, but its pretty much focused on trees and plants. And its awesome! I use it all the time in rendering natural scenery.

Shade 3D also has PoserFusion, and it has its instancing implemented in what are called Replicators. There are two types: surface replicators and path replicators. Surface replicators are great for anything you might also do in Vue. Path Replicators are great for replicating objects along a path, like chain links, for example. Because you can use offsets too, you aren't limited to just random stuff along surfaces but distributions in space around the object.

What makes PoserFusion so clever is that since you are hosting the scene within Shade or Vue, you can go back, make changes to your Poser scene, then updated it directly within your other project.

Best regards,

chikako
Meshbox Design | 3D Models You Want

Quote - "hey, not bad!  SM can add instancing that easy?  "

I honestly dont see much of a demand in this community
for the ability to render render 400 identical copies
of the that same tree,rock or figure ( see attached)

 

 

A tree or rock is fine. Merely having a rotation and slight scaling in some of the instances would do find as a cheat to pretend they aren't clones, and most of the time someone won't notice.

People however... humans are evolved to be very good at recognizing humans. You can't vary scale very much because it will look wrong. You can't merely rotate the figure because, well, humans have a defined front and a back and a top and a bottom that are instantly recognizable, so rotation doesn't help you much.

The ability to recognize people is why Photoshopping of, say, crowds to look bigger at political rallies don't usually stand up to scrutiny because people will quickly pick out the clones.

Quote - > Quote - Part of the "creativity", part of the "fun and personal satisfaction", is to build the content yourself.

That's what YOU say!

All teasing aside, Tony, I've spent over $1500 on modeling softwares that ***I can't begin to understand! ***And before everyone starts berating my intelligence, I'm not a dummy. I have degrees in mass communications and film, electrical engineering, and psychology. I've written books. I'm good enough at Poser that people hire me to illustrate for them.

I'm not an idiot, (contrary to popular opinion) but no tutorial I've run across has made Wings understandable to me. Sculptris... Blender... ZBrush... they all make no sense to me! All I wind up with after spending the money and hours and hours of grief is a shapeless nothing!

For my purposes, I can either buy content or go do something other than Poser. 

I doubt I am alone.

 

Basicwiz, have you heard of or tried Sketch-up? I've been using it to build sets and props since Poser 7. It's very easy to use- you litterally draw and drag your object into 3D. There are two versions- the pro version that you buy and a free version.

  I've been doing a series of graphic novels since Poser 7 and I've found that you can get close to beleivable and real through simple practise and Poser's gradual improvement. I don't see the need for alot of the plug-ins that are being pushed right now.

Quote - Is this a hint....? :P

It is not.

Coleman:

There are two places where I strongly disgree.  The first, your defeatist attitude toward figures, along with you assumption that company unmentioned will forever be the number one.  The Poser Roxie and Rex are both darn good figures, bending well, not horrid looking, and not as your company unmentioned, something resembling what Vargas did for Playboy as a cartoonist.  I use them over and above the company unmentioned figures. 

EClarke and now Vilters are making darn nice stuff for Roxie, and the other figures that you say should be reduced in resolution and relegated to background.  No.  They should not.  Far better they continue developing and improving them.  the V thing and M thing have run the gamut, reached the end of usefulness, probably soon extinct.  I really could not care less.  P6 James is a far more believable character than anything done on the M thing base.  I don't like Jesse, she needs a complete workover and refinements.

THe DSON thing, daz grew it, daz can chew it.  It's not SmithMicro's responsibility to crawl to that standard.  Daz made the mess, let them figure it out.  I see some reference to the "G2" in reference to daz software, G2 is Alyson, period.  It was a long  time before the gene thing came out.  And even Alyson requires no more than a few dial spins to look pretty realistic, same cannot be said for the V thing. 

My guess is most of the complaints about the Poser figures are the result of one two minute look and it not meeting what you wanted.  Get used to it, there are dials, there is the face room.  There is also my first choice of clothing, Poser dynamic.  9 times out of 10 I'll choose a dynamic cloth over conforming.  And it is usable as it is.  There is somewhat of a learning curve, but not much.

Doric

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

Competing with Vue is a bit of an unrealistically tall order, but on the other hand support for decent sized scenes would be really nice. I'd love a built in skydome and the option to switch the small ground square for an infinite plane. Of course this requires LOD support and more non-trivial improvements to the render engine.

I do believe this makes business sense. Not because I egocentrically assume that my wishes are the same as everybody elses in the community, but because it boosts the Poser eco system by giving vendors and buyers more content types to generate.

Quote - Competing with Vue is a bit of an unrealistically tall order, but on the other hand support for decent sized scenes would be really nice. I'd love a built in skydome and the option to switch the small ground square for an infinite plane. Of course this requires LOD support and more non-trivial improvements to the render engine.

I agree - I just don't see it happening. Poser is character software rather than character driven software. Maybe what we know as Poser can become a "character room" in a next generation product - but that's really what PoserFusion is.

Best regards,

chikako
Meshbox Design | 3D Models You Want

the instances used in vue are each unique.  butyou cna import several poser people or groupos fo people and replicate them lots of times in vue without overloading it.

There is another feature that vue has..  someting called xstream where vue can work within some other 3d  application, so you can have plants, water, terrains,r ealistic sunlight etc inside of your other 3d software, llike C4d or studiomax. unfortunately xstream doesn't work in poser.

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

I have to admit that one of the areas that Poser truly disappoints me in is the creation of woodland areas and nature in general.

Quote - I have to admit that one of the areas that Poser truly disappoints me in is the creation of woodland areas and nature in general.

I agree.  there are some workarounds, but not with any kind of realism.  Problem being, I have several tree generation programs, for Povray, which can make quite realistic trees.  Some can export .obj, but more than a couple and poser is going to choke.  Lisa's Bottanicals are pretty good, but poser doen't have a way to say you want six and randomize their size, location and rotation, and trace the ground level while you're at it.  I have both the cyclorama and daz environments, don't have much use for either.  Billboards and they look like it. Doric

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

I would already be sold for a PP2016 version, if it's cloth (and hair-) room would be more "MD-ish", so to say =)

if walk designer could support vehicles with front wheel drive, tire rotating & turning for trips round the corner

4legged, winged creatures

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Quote - if walk designer could support vehicles with front wheel drive, tire rotating & turning for trips round the corner

4legged, winged creatures

It's atle time consuming, but you could always just turn the tires and advance the car the distance it would actually move in a quarter turn. Do that our times for one complete rotation and save that to the library as an animation.

walk designer could be so much more totally rocking awesome !!!

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Well, I personally want a UI option that looks like a FPV game engine. I want to be able to walk my figures around a fully rendered 3d scene, find a spot I like, change the camera to 3rd person, pose my figure, and render.

Then I want to be able to go back into first person view, equip a weapon, and kill all the monsters in my runtime. 

And I want to be able to do all that with an Xbox controller.

One can dream, right?

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - Then I want to be able to go back into first person view, equip a weapon, and kill all the monsters in my runtime. 

I'd rather kill all of the bugs in Poser and Windows... :lol:

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The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

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1. I wouldn't mind the instancing at all.  Sounds like a good idea to me. :)
2. I don't mind the post-Posette Poser figures.  I didn't care for Alyson.  I did like Sydney and the G2s.  Don't really care for the figures with embedded magnets too much, in general (think it's extraneous at this point) but it doesn't make me run for the hills.  Won't really get into it (again).
3. Don't look at the gallieries as often as others do so I'm not one to comment.  I make the stuff I enjoy making without (serious) regard to what the other guy over there is making.
4. Don't really agree because of the hitching oneself to another company thing.  Not really getting into it yet again. ;)

Really don't like generalizations about vendors "do this or that".  Everyone makes their choices based on their capabilities, what they enjoy doing and certainly what they feel will sell also works its way into that.  I have stuck with Poser 9+ and my lights are still on.  I feel, even though it might be some kind of a niche, that customers DO want to see products and tools that use the capabilities of recent versions of Poser to underline what they bought new versions of Poser FOR.  I think it's more than fair to support the current version of Poser and one version back (and further back, if possible, without having to make lots of concessions).
There is certainly, obviously, a market in grabbing the largest pool possible but it's not the end all, be all, period.

.

Quote - I have stuck with Poser 9+ and my lights are still on. 

Yes, but consider what you're selling. A lot of it is script based and utilities, so you'll get the money from those wanting to upgrade. However, I was speaking of those making figures and clothing. All of those that tried have been shut down by customers and have gone back to the older figures. Only weight mapped figure that has content consistenly made is the Genesis figures, a quick view through rendo and runtimedna stores will show that.

Quote - > Quote - I have stuck with Poser 9+ and my lights are still on. 

Yes, but consider what you're selling. A lot of it is script based and utilities, so you'll get the money from those wanting to upgrade. However, I was speaking of those making figures and clothing. All of those that tried have been shut down by customers and have gone back to the older figures. Only weight mapped figure that has content consistenly made is the Genesis figures, a quick view through rendo and runtimedna stores will show that.

 

I can see what you are saying but even with scripts and utliltes there have been advances.  I have recently peucased two utilities created by Netherwork, one full and one upgrade, but did so mainly on the basis that are 'addons' which I think is a much cleaner way of delivering utlilties and scripts.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Part of the "creativity", part of the "fun and personal satisfaction", is to build the content yourself.

That's what YOU say!

All teasing aside, Tony, I've spent over $1500 on modeling softwares that ***I can't begin to understand! ***And before everyone starts berating my intelligence, I'm not a dummy. I have degrees in mass communications and film, electrical engineering, and psychology. I've written books. I'm good enough at Poser that people hire me to illustrate for them.

I'm not an idiot, (contrary to popular opinion) but no tutorial I've run across has made Wings understandable to me. Sculptris... Blender... ZBrush... they all make no sense to me! All I wind up with after spending the money and hours and hours of grief is a shapeless nothing!

For my purposes, I can either buy content or go do something other than Poser. 

I doubt I am alone.

 

Nope, you are not alone.  I have tried some of the Digital Tailor tutorials and that has been the best for me, that and Silo.  However the most I have done so far is to modify items purchased for my own use.  On the whole I purchase content and then modify the materials either within Poser or, for figures, I use Paint Shop Pro and layers.  I have added scars, tattoos and freckles that way and I enjoy it, good as Silo is I don't get the same buzz from that.

I just cannot see me spending the time to build something that could take me a week (plus the year gaining the skills) and yet I could buy of $10.

 

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Wheatpenny -

When Poser 5 came out Creative Labs or Efrontier, or whatever the dominant company name for Poser was had a partnership with a software program called Shade. Shade is kind of like Hexagon, and is oriented for gamers. It also has a poser fusion that allows you to bring Poser Characters into it.

Mirye Shade 7 and Shade 8 had a fantastic set of printed literature and there was a step by step tutorial that got me started. It went through how to make a basic table and vase and then set up a room and stepped you through the cameras to go through it. 

If you can get a copy of this tutorial, it would still be applicable to their current version which is 14.

I like it for creating *.objs and I have learned a lot. I am still not good at editing polygons and manipulating them. In fact I have what I thought was a simple task of creating a chamfer on a cylinder that has me stumped for the moment. But that's probasbly because I haven't had the manual for the latest version (it came out in Feb and I just ordered it today - its free but you have to register for it)  and some of the command buttons have been relocated and changed.

I think that is what some of these software packages are missing: A good basic tutorial that gets you started making the basic stuff. The fun startswhen you begin to spend more time creating than you do looking up commands to se if the software can do what you want it to do.

Going through that Shade7 / Shade8 tutorial is what got me over the hump of just buying stuff and creating scenes. I still buy, but I also add and am beginning to create more of my own. 

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I have stuck with Poser 9+ and my lights are still on. 

Yes, but consider what you're selling. A lot of it is script based and utilities, so you'll get the money from those wanting to upgrade. However, I was speaking of those making figures and clothing. All of those that tried have been shut down by customers and have gone back to the older figures. Only weight mapped figure that has content consistenly made is the Genesis figures, a quick view through rendo and runtimedna stores will show that.

 

I can see what you are saying but even with scripts and utliltes there have been advances.  I have recently peucased two utilities created by Netherwork, one full and one upgrade, but did so mainly on the basis that are 'addons' which I think is a much cleaner way of delivering utlilties and scripts.

Well netherworks' utilities are good and take a lot of headache out of doing some things in Poser. Matwriter panel is my favorite and saves me from pulling my hair out when making materials though it's still far longer to make materials for products than it does with DS. Hopefully the new version can default to relative pathnames when saving rather than absolute; I had to pull out one of Dimension3D's utilities to change the paths in a lot of files because it was writing absolute pathnames when I was saving because the runtime existed in a different runtime which was necessary for my products when they're sharing the texture files for different programs.

Certainly SM could benefit from actually speaking to actual content developers of figures to figure out what to include or make easier for them, there's far too much hand coding and editing files by hand to make content when it should be done from within the program.

Well again you make it sound like a union that all vendors are part of (and you're the official spokesman).  You most certainly do not know what "all" vendors have done.  You're welcome to make your best guess though. ;)  I just think it's some of the wording, M3dia.

I've done a variety of different things and don't have a specific focus of any type of product.  I enjoy creating utilities when I feel that I have something to contribute that I feel would make Poser more fun and interesting to use and that advance on what I've done prior.

Apart from that I released a toon bear in December, which did very well.  Suzy and Dude did very well (and continue to have residuals), of which I was the rigger and polisher and that I also accessorized.

I have done some V4 works but (of late) those were part of a team effort and in that situation it was my job to rig/morph so that was being there to support a team concept.  But as far as Joe solo goes, I don't think I've made completely self-published content (clothing, skins and what you would consider standard fare) for any of the older generation figures in well over 4 years.  And that's not a V4-hater statement, it's just that its not the "end all" of anything for me. ;)

Back to OT, I don't really have much to contribute except that I do like the instancing idea and stewer has suggested that it likely feasable to do, by saying that other requests have been done (but that doesn't mean it's easy, just might not require the code base rewrite that is perceived to need to happen).

On the Genesis and all that, I think we know everyone's opinion already.  I don't think either company should feel they must shack up with the other, no matter who's foot the shoe is on.  If it could be done in some way that both could meet at a middle ground and each take a step forward, I think that would be the best route without anyone having to make sacrfices.  Maybe SM could move more towards a Genesis-type system (but keep the Poser ideals intact) and DAZ could move towards producing a native Poser file to work within that system.  Don't you think that sounds better than just "adopt someone else's technology natively" in your own program?

I'm not in the mood to be lambasted over the whole genesis thing this week but I'm actually very neutral on the whole thing.  It it winds up working natively, great!  Something to look forward to.  If it doesn't... I'll still be moving forward doing whatever I do :)  Sorry that I'm sickenly positive but that's how I gotta roll.

.

Poser saves materials with relative paths

Do a simple test: Load a texture from your texture folder and apply it to andy. Then save that material and look at the mt5 file. It is saved as: file ":Runtime:Textures:YourTexture.jpg"

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN POSER 2016:

(1) Some form of instancing would be nice. When making a crowd scene it would be nice to be able to replicate things like seats or signs or tables or trees or bushes or whatever without it hogging memory.

(2) I have already reached the same conclusion you have regarding low poly figures. I have purchased some of predatrons and Greenpots (for his gymnasium) and would like to see some more development along those lines. 

(3) ROPE ROOM I like ships, dinghys, in particular sailing. I would like to see development of something called a "Rope Room" which could set the modeling of ropes and knots. Rope is a unique figure with unique properties.  I don't think this is that difficult; I could almost do it myself, and that's not saying much.

Basically I'd like to be able to pick two -or more- points in 3D space and have it return the distance between any of the two points. For that nominal distance I would have the opportunity of entering a diameter and I would have a dial that would increase the distance. When the dial is spun, the rope length would then droop or sag between the two points as the distance is increased beyond the nominal returned initially. I should be able to rotate the peak/trough of the loop about its axis between the two points.

Somehow I'd like it to be parented at both ends, like a real rope would, but I haven't figured out how to do that.

I'd also like to have a button in this fictional rope room that would ask me how many segments and then automatically convert my rope into an easy pose figure.

For animations the easy pose figure could have a dial that allows elasticity, so that in a bungee cord scenario it could stretch.

My rope should also be able to drape like dynamic cloth does, but still hold its diameter. I suppose the way you could do this is have the path settle and then map the easy pose rope to the path.  Jewelry necklaces should be easier to model and could conform dynamically if a Rope Room existed.

 

In poser physics I still haven't figured out how to make and animate a tire swing. That is, To have the rope anchored at one end and be able to drop or push a tire at the end of it. It's just not easy to do. I'd like to be able to set this up in my ficitonal rope room.

In my fictional rope room there would also be a knot tying utility that would, as a first pass, enable you to trace a path and then be able to create a knot in obj. As a second pass, I'd like to be able to convert this to an easy pose figure.

The first pass of a knot tying utility has already been done.

There is a UK piece of free software that is called 'KnotTyer3D"  by Steve Abbot of the UK that is pretty awesome, but horribly out of date. I use it on my old XP machine but haven't tried it on newer platforms. It needs to be written in Python (Steve - if you google your name and this comes up are you paying attention?). The windows to do operations in are small and not up to snuff, but the darn things works really well and can export to an obj which can then be scaled and have materials added in Poser:

Link: 

http://www.stevenabbott.co.uk/Knots/knottyer3d.html

 

(4) I would like to see continued improvements in poser Physics. In particular I'd like to be able to "Pin" a character or part of a character in a scene and then let gravity do the animation.  You can take my tire swing example above, but also the one I am primarily thinking about is having a character hold on to a parapit with one hand while trying to climb up, or hold on to a tiller as a boat rocks. In this example the hand would be 'pinned' to the parapit. We can almost do this now.

(5) I 'd like to see some kind of integration of the face room with a 3D Hand scanning device such as the one put out recently (November 2013) for $399 by 3D Systems.  I saw it in operation at a recent trade show and would love to somehow convert what it scans into a poser character. From what I saw, it does a really good job of scanning heads and boots and things.

Link:

http://www.3dsystems.com/press-releases/3d-systems-delivers-sense-consumer-3d-scanner

I'd include I couple of images, but am not sure how to do it.

(6) This is probably asking more of Poser than it can deliver, but I think I would like to hafve some sort of nurbs capablity. Maybe I should ask this of Mirye shade. I like how Cinema 4D can model an airplane the way balsa wood models are built. You model the bulkheads and then add the stringers along the sides. This converts an exterior to polygons. Having this capability allows you to intuitively model things like airplanes and boats.  Given the choice, though, I'd like to see the ROPE ROOM first because I think it is easier and more in line with what people use poser for.

That's more than a mouthfull, but it is some of what I would want to use in Poser 2016.

Quote - Poser saves materials with relative paths

Do a simple test: Load a texture from your texture folder and apply it to andy. Then save that material and look at the mt5 file. It is saved as: file ":Runtime:Textures:YourTexture.jpg"

I was speaking of matwriter panel. If the material is not in the current runtime, it saves it as absolute, not relative.

Also I don't believe without the tool you can save materials from particualar surfaces... such as if i'm saving a partial material consisting of only the torso and arm for a tattoo, or copying the settings from one body part to mulitple parts.

Quote - > Quote - Poser saves materials with relative paths

Do a simple test: Load a texture from your texture folder and apply it to andy. Then save that material and look at the mt5 file. It is saved as: file ":Runtime:Textures:YourTexture.jpg"

I was speaking of matwriter panel. If the material is not in the current runtime, it saves it as absolute, not relative.

Also I don't believe without the tool you can save materials from particualar surfaces... such as if i'm saving a partial material consisting of only the torso and arm for a tattoo, or copying the settings from one body part to mulitple parts.

So not a poser problem

And yes, you can save partial materials and materials for selected body parts

3dstor, if they don't add rope room, one can use cage's free extruder script, as shown below.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2798819&page=13#message_3772172

No, I simply proposed another way to do it.  I said could, not should.

Many years ago, when folks were asking why doesn't DAZ produce a Genesis figure that works in Poser, a large list was produced as to why that isn't possible.  Because Poser doesn't have certain inherent abilities that DS has.  On the list were things like autoloading morphs in a folder, no way to apply geo-grafting, UV swapping, etc.  What I illustrated is that perhaps if Poser designed more to meet things on that list, but keeping its own technologies in order to do so, then perhaps DAZ would be more keen on producing a native figure to work into that.

For the record I don't feel entitled at all.  I think I made it very clear that I'm indifferent.  My work isn't figure-centric because I chose that road.  Nobody is forced to do anything, no matter how you want to coat it.

Regardless if folks want to agree with the "adopt tech" angle or not, you have to look the ramifications of doing that.  As soon as you slave to someone else's tech then you are at the mercy of their design cycles, revisions, and all of that.  You're basically left at the whims of the other company.  Is that not precisely one of the reasons why DAZ studio has its own figure tech instead of using Poser's?  I don't think that DAZ wanted to be grafted to what SM is doing for the entirety of its life.  However, DS needed to do that in the beginning, which is really where the "SM should make stuff for DS too" kind of argument falls flat.  DS had no choice during the early editions (1, 2, etc) but to use Poser tech because it wanted to compete with Poser in the market that existed at the time.  There were DAZ scene files but nobody (most, not all) really used that format, so DS just opened cr2s and so on natively.

On the fitting room, not every single teeny bit of Poser needs to be 100% geared to facilitating content made for distribution.  Perhaps it is more geared to end users.  As a vendor, however, I've found a lot of use for it.  For one, it can produce a basic clothing cr2, virtually error-free very quickly.  I'm not talking about using it to shrink-wrap, I'm saying you can use it to set up a grouped obj quickly as an alternative to the Setup room.  There are lots of clever ways to use things if you keep your mind open concerning them.

I don't have the final answer on the genesis/figure/whatever dilemma.  It's not my call to make regardless.  I have a stance outside of the equation, again, because that's my choice.  As it stands now, nobody is prevented from using DSON or using DS directly too.  There's no reason why someone can't have a mind to enjoy Poser and DS.  I'm on a one-road highway but it's completely okay if others want to walk a different path.  Maybe that doesn't work for everyone (obviously).

BTW, thank you and hornet3d  for the kudos on my utilities.  It is appreciated.  I have no problem with whether or not we see eye to eye otherwise.

.

"But are you a vendor, especially one that make figure products? Didn't think so, so this really isn't anything you could shed any background on. Point still stands that the vendors haven't used the fitting room to make products for multiple characters. Only thing you see are props and hair."

 

From what I remember of the video discussing the new features of Poser this was not SM thinking when the fitting room was developed.  It was promoted as a way for 3rd part figures to be successful as the dependance on content was reduced.  Also the investment in previous figures was not lost irrespective of if that previous figure orginnated from Daz Poser or elsewhere. 

I am less concerned with vendors using the new features as I can always convert the lighting and add SSS to whatever figure I want.  I am slightly annoyed that I still have to look in the Pose folder for materials but once again a Netherworks script takes care of that.  Each vendor must decide waht it right for them and I can decide who I support accordingly.

 

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

@Netherworks

"BTW, thank you and hornet3d  for the kudos on my utilities.  It is appreciated.  I have no problem with whether or not we see eye to eye otherwise."

No need to thank me for any Kudos, you deserve it and you are welcome.  I have a number of scripts created by you.  The Camera Plus Panel being one of my favorites but I also use the Batch Material Converter on a regular basis.  Light Dots, Render Dots and Pose Dots are all part of my Poser load up screen.  They are all small utilities but have a large impact on the way I use Poser.  It makes Poser, easier to use and a lot more fun.  It isn't until I buy and install an upgrade to Poser that a realise how much difference they make.  For example I use the Slim Parameters Panel all the time and tend to think it is part of Poser, which says a lot about the way you intergrate your utilities, making it a shock when the panel reverts after an Poser upgrade.  So the process is always update Poser then quickly add all the Netherwork Panels before I start to use Poser in any shape or form.

So I am more than happy to promote your scripts as I have found them to be useful, easy to use and value for money.

 

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - From what I remember of the video discussing the new features of Poser this was not SM thinking when the fitting room was developed.  It was promoted as a way for 3rd part figures to be successful as the dependance on content was reduced.  Also the investment in previous figures was not lost irrespective of if that previous figure orginnated from Daz Poser or elsewhere. 

I am less concerned with vendors using the new features as I can always convert the lighting and add SSS to whatever figure I want.  I am slightly annoyed that I still have to look in the Pose folder for materials but once again a Netherworks script takes care of that.  Each vendor must decide waht it right for them and I can decide who I support accordingly.

Yes, like I said, Fitting room is a feature touted under "figure independence" that content developers don't use.  It's interesting as the end user is using it more, but it's in the pro version of the software. If you look at the various stores, you'll quickly see its benefits have not been realized as content developers are still only developing for one figure and it's the same one they've been using. If SM had spoken to the content developers, they would have seen that it wasn't a feature they really wanted... they're not interested in making items for multiple figures and the general population that buys content doesn't want to spend their time converting individual pieces of content either. It's fine for those power users that like to convert items, but you're not going to get a ton of buyers with the promise they can spend their time converting items they're seeing for other figures.

The next post I have to delete gets the thread locked and warnings issued. 

 

~Shane

[quote

Yes, like I said, Fitting room is a feature touted under "figure independence" that content developers don't use.  It's interesting as the end user is using it more, but it's in the pro version of the software. If you look at the various stores, you'll quickly see its benefits have not been realized as content developers are still only developing for one figure and it's the same one they've been using. If SM had spoken to the content developers, they would have seen that it wasn't a feature they really wanted... they're not interested in making items for multiple figures and the general population that buys content doesn't want to spend their time converting individual pieces of content either. It's fine for those power users that like to convert items, but you're not going to get a ton of buyers with the promise they can spend their time converting items they're seeing for other figures.

Looking in the stores might be the wrong place to find if the FItting room is being used or not, it's being used because of what is NOT in the stores.  The content developers are a tiny percentage of all Poser users, not really a representative of anything except developers.

"Power users" are the only ones using it?  If so, that makes me a power user, which there can be no doubt I definitely am NOT.

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

I am tempted to respond to the one of the latest comments but there would be little point and I take heed of what AmbientShade has already said.  I hope it does not get locked and I will continue to monitor but for now I will move into lurk mode.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

If I didn't love using Poser, I wouldn't post frustration purge posts about it. My apologies for being abrasive though.

Thanks all for your honest feedback.

Quote - > Quote - Yes, like I said, Fitting room is a feature touted under "figure independence" that content developers don't use.  It's interesting as the end user is using it more, but it's in the pro version of the software. If you look at the various stores, you'll quickly see its benefits have not been realized as content developers are still only developing for one figure and it's the same one they've been using. If SM had spoken to the content developers, they would have seen that it wasn't a feature they really wanted... they're not interested in making items for multiple figures and the general population that buys content doesn't want to spend their time converting individual pieces of content either. It's fine for those power users that like to convert items, but you're not going to get a ton of buyers with the promise they can spend their time converting items they're seeing for other figures.

Looking in the stores might be the wrong place to find if the FItting room is being used or not, it's being used because of what is NOT in the stores.  The content developers are a tiny percentage of all Poser users, not really a representative of anything except developers.

"Power users" are the only ones using it?  If so, that makes me a power user, which there can be no doubt I definitely am NOT.

But if you look at the Poser Pro 2014 product page, this is what you'll read right at the top:

Quote - New Poser Pro 2014 Only Features Productivity tools designed for Professional Poser Content Developers

Fitting Room Interactively fit clothing and props to any Poser figure and create new conforming clothing using five intelligent modes that automatically loosen, tighten, smooth and preserve soft and rigid features. Paint maps on the mesh to control the exact areas that you want to modify. Use pre-fit tools to direct the mesh around the goal figure's shapes. With a single button, generate a new conforming item using the goal figure's rig, complete with full morph transfer

So yes, it was designed by Smith Micro for content developers; so if it was useful to them, then you would see clothing for multiple figures including their own figures, which makes sense as historically they get very little support. However since you don't see products for multiple figures, it's not a feature that those developers find useful, thus my previous comments.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Yes, like I said, Fitting room is a feature touted under "figure independence" that content developers don't use.  It's interesting as the end user is using it more, but it's in the pro version of the software. If you look at the various stores, you'll quickly see its benefits have not been realized as content developers are still only developing for one figure and it's the same one they've been using. If SM had spoken to the content developers, they would have seen that it wasn't a feature they really wanted... they're not interested in making items for multiple figures and the general population that buys content doesn't want to spend their time converting individual pieces of content either. It's fine for those power users that like to convert items, but you're not going to get a ton of buyers with the promise they can spend their time converting items they're seeing for other figures.

Looking in the stores might be the wrong place to find if the FItting room is being used or not, it's being used because of what is NOT in the stores.  The content developers are a tiny percentage of all Poser users, not really a representative of anything except developers.

"Power users" are the only ones using it?  If so, that makes me a power user, which there can be no doubt I definitely am NOT.

But if you look at the Poser Pro 2014 product page, this is what you'll read right at the top:

Quote - New Poser Pro 2014 Only Features Productivity tools designed for Professional Poser Content Developers

Fitting Room Interactively fit clothing and props to any Poser figure and create new conforming clothing using five intelligent modes that automatically loosen, tighten, smooth and preserve soft and rigid features. Paint maps on the mesh to control the exact areas that you want to modify. Use pre-fit tools to direct the mesh around the goal figure's shapes. With a single button, generate a new conforming item using the goal figure's rig, complete with full morph transfer

So yes, it was designed by Smith Micro for content developers; so if it was useful to them, then you would see clothing for multiple figures including their own figures, which makes sense as historically they get very little support. However since you don't see products for multiple figures, it's not a feature that those developers find useful, thus my previous comments.

That could very well just be marketing. Like calling a 64 bit version "Pro". You certainly don't have to be a pro to need the additional memory just to render. Neither do you have to be a "professional content developer" to want to use the fitting room. But it's clever wording. Perhaps it feeds some people's egos to think of themselves as a "pro." Perhaps, at the same time, it makes those who buy the 32 bit version not feel as though they are getting something lesser. After all, the other version is for "pros."

In any case, you are right in observing that we're not seeing vendors offering much multi-figure support (except for texture/character sets). But that's nothing new. Perhaps there's a reluctance to use any sort of "automated" conversion utility in a commerical product where the expectation of the market is that everything be "hand crafted"? Perhaps they don't see the point of taking the extra effort to convert something for people who can buy the software themselves and do it? Perhaps not that many vendors have even bought the latest version of Poser?

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

I don't necessarily use the Fitting Room, but I do use and enjoy the new "Copy Morphs" Command feature regularly. Don't know if that's just in the Pro version or not though.

I do have one complaint about that feature though. And I may have to start a thread over at RDNA to address it. Some of the "Morphs" listed in the hierarchy window that pops up are not morphs at all, but scales and they don't transfer or work. It's extremely frustrasting, because I have to figure it out through trial and error what will transfer and what won't.

Quote - That could very well just be marketing. 

Yes, and from that they're marketing the feature set to Professional Content Developers. It doesn't mean other's aren't going to use it (ie Power Users that don't create content for others), but that's how the official marketing was set up.

 

Quote - In any case, you are right in observing that we're not seeing vendors offering much multi-figure support (except for texture/character sets). But that's nothing new. Perhaps there's a reluctance to use any sort of "automated" conversion utility in a commerical product where the expectation of the market is that everything be "hand crafted"? Perhaps they don't see the point of taking the extra effort to convert something for people who can buy the software themselves and do it? Perhaps not that many vendors have even bought the latest version of Poser?

It's not reluctance; to understand you have to figure that a vendor will spend weeks or months on something: building, textures, morphs, making sure it moves and functions properly for that figure. They're seeing the same dress or figure day after day after day after day. By the time they get to the end and ready to submit to a store, the vendor generally is tired of looking at that project and ready for something new to work on. When they use tools, they want them to increase their productivity to finish a project, not set it up do to it again. So you'll people asking for the same product for X figure and generally the vendor has moved on to something else so you almost never see a vendor make an outfit for another figure. Making a tool to help make the outfit for another figure holds no value if it's not economically feasible to do so; even if they did, they'll still have to go through another round of testing, promos, etc and run the chance of not recouping their investment  for that work if it only sells 10 copies. Vendors generally want tools to increase productivity in bringing that one project to market so offering a tool like this won't help them accomplish that goal.

Quote - > Quote - That could very well just be marketing. 

Yes, and from that they're marketing the feature set to Professional Content Developers. It doesn't mean other's aren't going to use it (ie Power Users that don't create content for others), but that's how the official marketing was set up.

 

Quote - In any case, you are right in observing that we're not seeing vendors offering much multi-figure support (except for texture/character sets). But that's nothing new. Perhaps there's a reluctance to use any sort of "automated" conversion utility in a commerical product where the expectation of the market is that everything be "hand crafted"? Perhaps they don't see the point of taking the extra effort to convert something for people who can buy the software themselves and do it? Perhaps not that many vendors have even bought the latest version of Poser?

It's not reluctance; to understand you have to figure that a vendor will spend weeks or months on something: building, textures, morphs, making sure it moves and functions properly for that figure. They're seeing the same dress or figure day after day after day after day. By the time they get to the end and ready to submit to a store, the vendor generally is tired of looking at that project and ready for something new to work on. When they use tools, they want them to increase their productivity to finish a project, not set it up do to it again. So you'll people asking for the same product for X figure and generally the vendor has moved on to something else so you almost never see a vendor make an outfit for another figure. Making a tool to help make the outfit for another figure holds no value if it's not economically feasible to do so; even if they did, they'll still have to go through another round of testing, promos, etc and run the chance of not recouping their investment  for that work if it only sells 10 copies. Vendors generally want tools to increase productivity in bringing that one project to market so offering a tool like this won't help them accomplish that goal.

What do you consider economically feasible and how do you figure it out?  I don't think most vendors do try to figure it out. They may make something for a figure (just for arguments sake say Miki 4) and they make the same outfit for another figure (Roxie). The outfit for Miki 4 sells as expected, but the one for Roxie doesn't. So the vendor assumes that  things for Roxie don't sell well. The problem with that argument is that it's almost a self fullfilling argument. People don't expect to see anything for Roxie so they're not looking. And if they're not looking they won't buy. You have to give the figure time to prove itself. Something most vendors don't really want to do.

Quote -  

What do you consider economically feasible and how do you figure it out?  I don't think most vendors do try to figure it out. They may make something for a figure (just for arguments sake say Miki 4) and they make the same outfit for another figure (Roxie). The outfit for Miki 4 sells as expected, but the one for Roxie doesn't. So the vendor assumes that  things for Roxie don't sell well. The problem with that argument is that it's almost a self fullfilling argument. People don't expect to see anything for Roxie so they're not looking. And if they're not looking they won't buy. You have to give the figure time to prove itself. Something most vendors don't really want to do.

However, that would be a decent enough gauge of interest. If a vendor is making things for a living, you can usually tell by the first or second product what the market is for a figure, since the customer is determining what they're willing to purchase. Most vendors, especially those that do content for a living, can't afford to try 3 or four times with a particular figure to see if it's popular increases if their sales are bad. But then they are also asking other vendors if they are having decent sales with a figure.

A more recent example would be Dawn; there was a lot of hype surrounding the release, but quite a few vendors lost money in that initial rush, which is why you barely see items for her now. Now it could also be the fact that the release wasn't handled properly since dumping a bunch of product out at the same time without properly spacing them out means someone one wins and some people lose in the rush for customers purchasing product; but to have support die off and have Gen 4 items dominate again pretty much means a lot more people lost than won; probably the winners in this case were the ones that made the utilities to convert v4's skin and clothing. But the customers in general dictated the demand so there must have not been many interested in the figure for one reason or another, so the vendors haven't produced much for her. Looking at the placement of the community bundle in the hot list when it released here was pretty telling as well; I went through 20+ pages and all the new releases placed way higher and I couldn't actually see where the product placed. I stopped looking when I saw clearance items placing higher than the bundle.

Quote - It's not reluctance; to understand you have to figure that a vendor will spend weeks or months on something: building, textures, morphs, making sure it moves and functions properly for that figure.

Oh, I'm not saying the reluctance isn't reasonable. It's entirely reasonable for those who actually depend on the sales to pay the bills. Or for anyone who knows their work is worth being paid for. I'm certainly not out to bash vendors. That would be silly, given how much I spent this month. :)

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

it would be kewl if morph brush or group tool could unweld verts.

it would be nice to not have to transmap all the time to fake a tear for flesh wound, ripped shirts.

and also, you know morphs stretch the uv texture, if poser could calculate the stretch across the material zone when needed.

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♥ My Gallery Albums    ♥   My YT   ♥   Party in the CarrarArtists Forum  ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff

Altering a mesh in such a way - unweld verts - would make all the existing morphs for that object invalid.  Unwelding would add points.

.

Quote - A more recent example would be Dawn; there was a lot of hype surrounding the release, but quite a few vendors lost money in that initial rush, which is why you barely see items for her now. Now it could also be the fact that the release wasn't handled properly since dumping a bunch of product out at the same time without properly spacing them out means someone one wins and some people lose in the rush for customers purchasing product

The dawn question is pretty easy to figure out, first, she's butt ugly as she comes, she came with a morph pack that barely rated the name, and too limited clothing styles available at the time she was released.  Plus, more expecnsive if you bought additional items and most people weren't going to go back into dumping large amounts of money for her after they already had for the V things. Not different enough to warrant spending the bucks.  I bought the whole package, don't have any of it left in my machines.  Not going that route again, did it once, learned.

Doric

The "I" in Doric is Silent.

 

Quote - > Quote - A more recent example would be Dawn; there was a lot of hype surrounding the release, but quite a few vendors lost money in that initial rush, which is why you barely see items for her now. Now it could also be the fact that the release wasn't handled properly since dumping a bunch of product out at the same time without properly spacing them out means someone one wins and some people lose in the rush for customers purchasing product

The dawn question is pretty easy to figure out, first, she's butt ugly as she comes, she came with a morph pack that barely rated the name, and too limited clothing styles available at the time she was released.  Plus, more expecnsive if you bought additional items and most people weren't going to go back into dumping large amounts of money for her after they already had for the V things. Not different enough to warrant spending the bucks.  I bought the whole package, don't have any of it left in my machines.  Not going that route again, did it once, learned.

Doric

I don't necessarily believe in any figure being butt ugly. Look, if you can make men look like good looking women, there's no reason you can't do the same for actual women.  For the most part most women wear make up any way. As for clothing, I seem to recall that Genesis had so few clothes when it came out that DAZ had to create autofit. That's why I do like the fitting room. I think Poser has gone autofit one better.

And both autofit and the fitting room are better than the previous solution which was to put V4's head on V3's body. But as I've said, I don't really use the fitting room because I make all my clothes now and they're all for the native poser figures.

I don't think Dawn is at all ugly. But I think this is one of those "eye of the beholder" things. No figure is universally adored. Ol' Sam used to say V4's default face looked like a bucket of "smashed crabs" or something like that. :D 

Yes, a set of high quality and versatile head and body morphs, though, should be the first thing that's released with a new figure. Ditto with a high quality selection of textures/character morphs, including darker skin and Asian. Even if she has very limited clothing -- let's face it -- a lot of users are going to be happy for quite some time rendering her nude/semi-nude. But not if they can't easily transform her the way they envision.

I've played with her. She bends very smoothly. She's dead easy to pose. I do hope that she eventually meets with real success. She has a few flaws, but I think, as a base figure, she's far, far, far superior to V4.2.

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - A more recent example would be Dawn; there was a lot of hype surrounding the release, but quite a few vendors lost money in that initial rush, which is why you barely see items for her now. Now it could also be the fact that the release wasn't handled properly since dumping a bunch of product out at the same time without properly spacing them out means someone one wins and some people lose in the rush for customers purchasing product

The dawn question is pretty easy to figure out, first, she's butt ugly as she comes, she came with a morph pack that barely rated the name, and too limited clothing styles available at the time she was released.  Plus, more expecnsive if you bought additional items and most people weren't going to go back into dumping large amounts of money for her after they already had for the V things. Not different enough to warrant spending the bucks.  I bought the whole package, don't have any of it left in my machines.  Not going that route again, did it once, learned.

Doric

I don't necessarily believe in any figure being butt ugly. Look, if you can make men look like good looking women, there's no reason you can't do the same for actual women.  For the most part most women wear make up any way. As for clothing, I seem to recall that Genesis had so few clothes when it came out that DAZ had to create autofit. That's why I do like the fitting room. I think Poser has gone autofit one better.

And both autofit and the fitting room are better than the previous solution which was to put V4's head on V3's body. But as I've said, I don't really use the fitting room because I make all my clothes now and they're all for the native poser figures.

Actually autofit was one of the features of genesis, not created afterward; and it was to smooth transition to the figure as it was a big departure. However, people still invested in the new content, which allowed content developers to continue to make stuff for it.

Additionally, when people select a new figure to use, the bottom line comes down to "can this figure do the same or more than what I have now?"

That's where a lot of the other figures fail. And I'm not speaking of "can it use stuff from my runtime already?" A figure has to stand on its own. No one happily trades in their BMW for a bicycle and have the company that made it think they should be happy with that choice because that's the only new solution. They'll stay with what they have; and that's basically what happened.

Dawn isn't butt ugly, however in it's current state, it can't be a replacement as it can't do everything V4 did, beyond bend better. I don't think just having something weightmapped is incentive for switching to a new figure; no one is just going to make renders with Dawn contorting in weird poses, they want her to vary in her appearance for use in renders. Unless you have a sculpting tool, that is hard to accomplish; so that's why the content using her morphs don't compare to what they have with the older figures.

Also fact that the figure uses a common set of base features in both programs doesn't help it innovate as well. It may be better that she become solely a poser figure since that's where most of her content is made for and Hivewire and SM work on their figure creation platform so that it's easier to create content that uses Poser features. Not much is happening on the DS side considering how V6 and her sister Olympia selling and new shapes are regularly entering the Genesis genepool such as the new guy, big ol' Gianni. ;) That's not to say DS users aren't using her but new PAs like Nikisatez aren't making it easy after her debut yesterday with all those sexy clothes and hair.

Quote -
Actually autofit was one of the features of genesis, not created afterward; and it was to smooth transition to the figure as it was a big departure. However, people still invested in the new content, which allowed content developers to continue to make stuff for it.

Additionally, when people select a new figure to use, the bottom line comes down to "can this figure do the same or more than what I have now?"

That's where a lot of the other figures fail. And I'm not speaking of "can it use stuff from my runtime already?" A figure has to stand on its own. No one happily trades in their BMW for a bicycle and have the company that made it think they should be happy with that choice because that's the only new solution. They'll stay with what they have; and that's basically what happened.

Dawn isn't butt ugly, however in it's current state, it can't be a replacement as it can't do everything V4 did, beyond bend better. I don't think just having something weightmapped is incentive for switching to a new figure; no one is just going to make renders with Dawn contorting in weird poses, they want her to vary in her appearance for use in renders. Unless you have a sculpting tool, that is hard to accomplish; so that's why the content using her morphs don't compare to what they have with the older figures.

Also fact that the figure uses a common set of base features in both programs doesn't help it innovate as well. It may be better that she become solely a poser figure since that's where most of her content is made for and Hivewire and SM work on their figure creation platform so that it's easier to create content that uses Poser features. Not much is happening on the DS side considering how V6 and her sister Olympia selling and new shapes are regularly entering the Genesis genepool such as the new guy, big ol' Gianni. ;) That's not to say DS users aren't using her but new PAs like Nikisatez aren't making it easy after her debut yesterday with all those sexy clothes and hair.

I have to agree. You do ask, "What does this figure do better than what I already have?" Absolutely. 

Also, having tried M6 and V6 in Poser -- fully clothed, the HD versions move like molasses, but they look amazing -- I can't see why a Daz user would be interested in third party figures.

Perhaps it's a matter of philosophy with Hivewire -- perhaps they want to continue the tradition of dual compatibility, even when it may not be the most perfectly efficient use of time and energy. 

I guess it's unfortunate that philosophy don't pay the bills. Naturally vendors will gravitate where they feel they can accomplish the most, whether that's sales, popularity, supporting the community, or simply feeling appreciated by their customers.

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - Perhaps it's a matter of philosophy with Hivewire -- perhaps they want to continue the tradition of dual compatibility, even when it may not be the most perfectly efficient use of time and energy. 

I guess it's unfortunate that philosophy don't pay the bills. Naturally vendors will gravitate where they feel they can accomplish the most, whether that's sales, popularity, supporting the community, or simply feeling appreciated by their customers.

I think it was well intentioned, however the philosophy of "Separate but Equal" has never really worked in the past. Someone always loses out as some things won't be available for purchase because of the platform they use. And if the burden of getting products to market involves vendors doing things two different ways to get the same result for two programs, for the same amount of income, they won't do it for long... especially when the programs have two different sets of features that you may or may not be able to take advantage of in their products.

Quote - > Quote - Perhaps it's a matter of philosophy with Hivewire -- perhaps they want to continue the tradition of dual compatibility, even when it may not be the most perfectly efficient use of time and energy. 

I guess it's unfortunate that philosophy don't pay the bills. Naturally vendors will gravitate where they feel they can accomplish the most, whether that's sales, popularity, supporting the community, or simply feeling appreciated by their customers.

I think it was well intentioned, however the philosophy of "Separate but Equal" has never really worked in the past. Someone always loses out as some things won't be available for purchase because of the platform they use. And if the burden of getting products to market involves vendors doing things two different ways to get the same result for two programs, for the same amount of income, they won't do it for long... especially when the programs have two different sets of features that you may or may not be able to take advantage of in their products.

Well, I believe Hivewire's offering a conversion service which does take some of the burden off vendors. And as development on Dawn continues, truth is, she may lure enough trait-, uhm, DS converts back to Poser to make the whole thing worthwile for Hivewire.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Perhaps it's a matter of philosophy with Hivewire -- perhaps they want to continue the tradition of dual compatibility, even when it may not be the most perfectly efficient use of time and energy. 

I guess it's unfortunate that philosophy don't pay the bills. Naturally vendors will gravitate where they feel they can accomplish the most, whether that's sales, popularity, supporting the community, or simply feeling appreciated by their customers.

I think it was well intentioned, however the philosophy of "Separate but Equal" has never really worked in the past. Someone always loses out as some things won't be available for purchase because of the platform they use. And if the burden of getting products to market involves vendors doing things two different ways to get the same result for two programs, for the same amount of income, they won't do it for long... especially when the programs have two different sets of features that you may or may not be able to take advantage of in their products.

Well, I believe Hivewire's offering a conversion service which does take some of the burden off vendors. And as development on Dawn continues, truth is, she may lure enough trait-, uhm, DS converts back to Poser to make the whole thing worthwile for Hivewire.

Now, now, what did TinaK saw about the personal comments? ;) Vendors pay bills with sales, not philosophy.

But I do find it interesting that even though the service has been in place for a while, no one takes them up on their offer.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Perhaps it's a matter of philosophy with Hivewire -- perhaps they want to continue the tradition of dual compatibility, even when it may not be the most perfectly efficient use of time and energy. 

I guess it's unfortunate that philosophy don't pay the bills. Naturally vendors will gravitate where they feel they can accomplish the most, whether that's sales, popularity, supporting the community, or simply feeling appreciated by their customers.

I think it was well intentioned, however the philosophy of "Separate but Equal" has never really worked in the past. Someone always loses out as some things won't be available for purchase because of the platform they use. And if the burden of getting products to market involves vendors doing things two different ways to get the same result for two programs, for the same amount of income, they won't do it for long... especially when the programs have two different sets of features that you may or may not be able to take advantage of in their products.

Well, I believe Hivewire's offering a conversion service which does take some of the burden off vendors. And as development on Dawn continues, truth is, she may lure enough trait-, uhm, DS converts back to Poser to make the whole thing worthwile for Hivewire.

Now, now, what did TinaK saw about the personal comments? ;) Vendors pay bills with sales, not philosophy.

Who me?

Quote - > Quote - Hopefully the new version can default to relative pathnames when saving rather than absolute; I had to pull out one of Dimension3D's utilities to change the paths in a lot of files because it was writing absolute pathnames when I was saving because the runtime existed in a different runtime which was necessary for my products when they're sharing the texture files for different programs

Sorry, I missed this.  How far back are we going in regards to the version of MATWriter?

I do know that in MWP 2014 it works fine.  The only time you'd get absolute paths would be if you used a non-runtime structure (i.e. texture is in C:Downloads).  I just loaded a texture from a different runtime and saved to an entirely new runtime and all was fine.  The 2012 version should be good too.  Further back than that, entirely possible (though not intended, of course).  We all get better as skill gets better.

.

Quote - Sorry, I missed this.  How far back are we going in regards to the version of MATWriter?

I do know that in MWP 2014 it works fine.  The only time you'd get absolute paths would be if you used a non-runtime structure (i.e. texture is in C:Downloads).  I just loaded a texture from a different runtime and saved to an entirely new runtime and all was fine.  The 2012 version should be good too.  Further back than that, entirely possible (though not intended, of course).  We all get better as skill gets better.

It's the 2012 version that does this.

If that's the case then the fault was with the version of Poser used or a combination of something that caused an absolute path to be written.  To write a MAT, it piggy-backs an MC6.

Edit: Does not happen in 2014.  I had explicitly had to write something to do it in the current version because it happens when image maps are swapped out (not in Poser, per se, but via python).  If I had known at the time, it would have been fixed in the previous version but I never experienced that by the way that my content is organized.  Need to know to fix it ;)

.

remember Kez?  wmapped for poser and everything.

---

♥ My Gallery Albums    ♥   My YT   ♥   Party in the CarrarArtists Forum  ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff

Quote - remember Kez?  wmapped for poser and everything.

Yes. I do. She and Dawn live together in the same runtime. :)

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PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

for a long time i wondered what the big difference was tween poser wm and ds wm.  so it looks like the triax wmapping is a wm for each rotation axis.

lucky there's only 3 axis-eez.

if your point is traveling in time though, would prolly need a couple more axiseez

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♥ My Gallery Albums    ♥   My YT   ♥   Party in the CarrarArtists Forum  ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff

Quote - remember Kez?  wmapped for poser and everything.

Don't forget Koz.

Quote - > Quote - remember Kez?  wmapped for poser and everything.

Don't forget Koz.

Belongs in the "most used freebies ever" thread. :)

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Everything this first post states - YES, yes, and YES!

I don't know how many NEW buyers they might attract with whatever to retain existing Buyers they need to ditch the DLM thing and the guy that set it up along with the deactivation non feature I'm pissed my pro app plugins are in effect vaporware and will not be a purchase

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

While a agree with you that the deactivation needs to go, Jim, I find the DLM works very well to get the latest version downloaded and installed...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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WandW posted at 10:24AM Mon, 07 September 2015 - #4226880

While a agree with you that the deactivation needs to go, Jim, I find the DLM works very well to get the latest version downloaded and installed...that's your anecdote

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

Coleman posted at 3:20AM Tue, 08 September 2015 - [#4144564]

have instancing ability like VUE to dump billions of polygons of content without the software shutting down.

No, and, of course, I'll tell you why. :)

Poser was developed as a "posing" program for artists. It is not a landscape program or a crowd generator, though there are certainly scripts and add-ons out there that will do that with it and it can integrate and work well with Vue and Carrara. Poser's focus is on individual figures, details, hi-resolution renders of organic objects, materials and textures focused on single figures, clothing, etc.. When one works with Poser, it's intent is pretty clear - It does a great job of rendering two or three hi-res human figures in a scene with good lighting.

Animation is something else that Poser does. But, while it can be fairly good, it's more like a tacked-on product. Development in Poser's animation capabilities has only recently been revitalized, I think, with the introduction of game-dev versions. Up until that point, Smith Micro did jack-all with Poser's animation capabilities and they have been basically ignored for a very long while. BUT, and here's the key, they were good enough to produce small scenes of a few human figures, as long as you were willing to forego decent lighting and dynamic hair.

Instancing serves no/little purpose in Poser as it simply isn't geared up for that sort of thing. (Yes, you can force it to do that, but it's not in its default repertoire nor should it be, since it's unsuitable for that.)

Since Posette and Miki2, all your Poser people have sucked... focus on making very low poly people as background filler...

I agree with the first part of your statement, but disagree somewhat with the latter. Yes, SM figures suck. They suck bad. Their rigs are wonky, assets are limited and they're hard to work with. Low Poly figs exist and come in every edition of Poser, however. There is no need to "focus" on producing low-poly figures for a Poser release version as included assets, but more available assets for sale in that genre would be nice for many users. I would, as you suggest, tell SM that they should develop a good low-poly figure line, but one that should be sold outside of the release version.

Please Please Please take a look at the Poser galleries here and stop listening solely to the Poser forums. How many "I want total photorealism" renders do you see in the galleries?

The truth? As was already said, Sturgeon's law applies - 90% of everything is crap and the galleries are no exception. You want to know what it appears that most people use Poser for? As ssgbryan stated "NVIATWAS." It's either that or 3D porn. That's what most Poser users are actually using the program for. And, when they render, it only has to look "good enough." I've seen people render with nothing but Poser 6 default lights and call it "awesome"... Why do they call it that? Because, it looks "real" to them. They're actually going for realism, but just failing hard. That's all.

The thing is, look at what the program is geared to do. It's made for rendering human figures, only a few at a time. It was up-vamped from a sculpting/painting artist's asset to be a broader platform for rendering a few human figures and doing some animations and such. Material upgrades and new shader effects have only increased that capability. Where's it headed? It's headed more to "realism" in that capacity than in any other direction. There is absolutely _nothing at all _wrong with a program that can render realistically, since if it can do that, it can render as unrealistically as you'd ever want it to.

Either swallow your pride and work to make Genesis work fully in Poser or release a kickass product that gallery artists want to use. I am damn frustrated with all this focus on realism and a product that is worthless with practicality and usefullness in day-to-day

SM isn't going to take on the burden of having to deal with another 3'rd party format to support, especially from their only direct competitor! They will make certain things available so that the format won't be excluded or unuseable, but they're not going to bend over backwards for DAZ3D. Nor should they. Like it or not, however, "realism" sells. Why? Because, what was it that I said most people were using the program for and what has the program evolved into? It's all about rendering a few human beings in a scene... Well, mostly rendering their skin and a bit of clothing, since Poser sucks for hair. So, it's focused on rendering about 3 bald, naked, people in a scene, maybe with some animation if you dump some of the lighting effects... :)

What I would suggest is very simple:

1. Increase Poser's capabilities to work with game-dev engines. The "Big Three" are taking on the hobbyist community by storm and it's what all the "cool kids" are doing, these days. If SM want's enthusiastic users who will gobble up content, that's where they need to put a lot of effort. This is where they need to focus the majority of their efforts - They need to become the indispensable "go-to" tool for anyone who wants to easily and quickly create assets for Unity, CryEngine and UnReal. SM needs to build off of the expanding use of these engines. They should feed on that like a pack of starving jackals until their bellies drag the ground.

2. Make Poser's pose room look like a real-time rendering engine... Why? Because people like shiny stuffs and if you can show off a real-time renderer that does a decent job of approximating most materials in a final still render, you're going to make jaws drop and people will throw money at you. <-Truth. Want new sales and something shiny to draw in those customers? That's one thing you need. It'll make for an outstanding video presentation, no doubt about it.

3. Physics. Wind is nice, cloth is nice, but with no particle effects, dynamic hair (Please, nobody say Poser already has dynamic hair...), soft-body physics, gravity, etc.. Well, you get the picture - IF Poser is going to have an animation component, it needs to have certain features so people can render their NVIATWAS with appropriate animations, fire, earthquakes and shaky boobies... and think they've just been hired by Pixar. Well, going that detailed isn't truly necessary, since what I'm going to suggest next is a kicker, but it'd be nice for those who want to totally stay within Poser's engine.

4. I mentioned GameDev already, but I have to emphasize that enabling Poser to work with 3rd-party programs is going to be the way that SM can grow sales without too much up-front. In this vein, pushing for greater capability with not only game-dev engines, but 3D modelers, would be a good start. Specifically, and even though I hate it, getting Poser to work better with Blender and other popular packages, like Sketchup, as either an asset creator or rendering alternative would be a nice touch. Basically, turning Poser into an integral part of a "pipeline" is where Poser needs to move. It can NOT continue to try to stand on its own credits without serious investment. It has to move forcefully into a program that has good stand-alone qualities, but even better integration qualities with popular software in its niche.

5. Assets. In short, if you don't build it, they won't come. Poser has lots of assets, but a good number of them are crap, are no longer functional, or are legacy products that are having trouble keeping up. SM needs to focus on tagalong products for Poser in order to generate a continuous stream of revenue. A module system might be nice for GameDev, with customized packages for each major engine, licensing being sold on a module basis, not buying an entirely new package. Scripting assets that help improve animation, rigging, etc, are great, but need to be made easier to use, since Poser's market, right now, is more of a 3D-home-hobbyist market. A nice Python version conversion utility would be.. sweet... (Oh, my legacy library of python scripts, how I miss you...) But, SM needs to produce assets, itself, that can directly compete with... you know who. The Cold War is over and the only one actually fighting the Hot War and winning is.. you know who. With absolutely no control over the third-party market and little interest in ensuring quality, there, SM is leaving primary asset creation up to an unknown quantity... In short: You don't build a battleship and then go to a temp agency in order to find a crew for it to "make it go."

PS - Thanks for an interesting thread. It's interesting to see what other people not only want, but how that implies what they're actually using Poser for.

"Please Please Please take a look at the Poser galleries here and stop listening solely to the Poser forums. How many "I want total photorealism" renders do you see in the galleries? THOSE are the people in the gallery are actually buying stuff."

Agree with the above comment and just commenting as one of "THOSE people." smile

I've been using Poser (Poser 4 - PoserPro 2014) for just over 16 years...and just Poser, with a bit of Photoshop. I love to create landscapes and simple portraits. I don't use any of the complex (to me) features of the program...nodes, fitting room, hair room, etc. I use the program to relax and create pretty pictures and I don't want to spend hours trying to figure out how to render images.

Wow! Serious thread necromancy.

So much has changed since this thread was started, is anything still relevant?

no, not relevant, but poser figures often used in pre-release movie animatics, maybe SM could push that. e.g. compile list of movies which used poser animatics/storyboard et al. they could rope in alotta movie fans that way. poser is so easy, they wanna emphasise how easy it is for newbies, but even movie producers use it. then when they release P11, fans will buy it like hotcakes. mobile phone version, cloud, you name it!

" mentioned GameDev already, but I have to emphasize that enabling Poser to work with 3rd-party programs is going to be the way that SM can grow sales without too much up-front. In this vein, pushing for greater capability with not only game-dev engines,...."

Here is My personal analysis of both Smith Micro's and Daz inc& Real illusions iclones effort to break in to the GameDev sector

Right now Games is a bigger market, Dollarwise, than hollywood movies so I certainly see the attraction for 3D character content makers.

Daz approach is to give DS away for no cost but charge for content and required $500 USD for a license to use their content in games. Although the DS nonlinear aniMate system is quick & easy,DS lacks complex Character animation tools to create Character animation for your games and they are now in DIRECT competition with their erstwhile partners at Reallusion with the release of this:

http://www.reallusion.com/iClone/character-creator/default.html

Reallusions New Character Creator is a direct Challenge to Daz and as a Daily Iclone5.5 Pro ,3D Exchange user I can Attest to the fact that their Character motion creation ,Human IK & Editing tools are far superior to anything possible in DS or Poser. Also Iclone allows me to import poser/Daz Skeletons and retarget Iclone created motion to them for rendering in Non Game environments Like C4D, Vue etc.

Caveat: for game dev folks the entry cost for this new RI Character creator with export license might be a little....Steep. currently on sale for $600 but regularly $1030!!!

Next We have Autodesk who, at present ,rules the Game Dev market

IMHO Last year they introduced a Poser/Daz Like online Character Creator in two iterations both paid & free http://area.autodesk.com/products/charactergenerator

This is a great "cloud based" option for Current Autodesk Max& Maya users as it Creates Content in NATIVE Autodesk Character formats for maximum Compatibility. Not much incentive there for their users to bother with Daz or Reallusion.

Lastly there is Poser Pro "Game Dev" I honestly Can not see what the Actual plan was for this Effort By SM.

They offered "5GB of Content" But never actually Showcased an of it being prepared for Game engines. ( Daz has largely failed in the area as well, although Reallusion has at least put forth Slick Detailed Videos showcasing their Unity export pipeline),

Smith also Micro left their Character animation Creation & Editing tools Firmly entombed in the year 1997 and sent Steve Cooper into the various poser online Forums to "encourage" poser Content developers to get on board in licensing their poser content. they put PP"gameDev in the unity Asset Store where is stood out like a $400 Dollar white elephant amongst items that maxxed out at about $45 USD on the high side.

Not sure how this all will shake out but if Autodesk is to be seriously

challenged, Daz needs more advanced Character motion tools and needs to offer more than their Genesis 3, so called game rigged, Female and her$500 USD Export licence.

Reallusion Needs to seriously look at their $$ pricing$$$ And frankly poser pro "game Dev" looks like a "one and Done" Effort from SM as they Are on to New internal rendering options for poser.

My website

YouTube Channel

wolf359 posted at 10:43AM Wed, 09 September 2015 - #4227327

" mentioned GameDev already, but I have to emphasize that enabling Poser to work with 3rd-party programs is going to be the way that SM can grow sales without too much up-front. In this vein, pushing for greater capability with not only game-dev engines,...."

Here is My personal analysis of both Smith Micro's and Daz inc& Real illusions iclones effort to break in to the GameDev sector

Right now Games is a bigger market, Dollarwise, than hollywood movies so I certainly see the attraction for 3D character content makers.

Daz approach is to give DS away for no cost but charge for content and required $500 USD for a license to use their content in games. Although the DS nonlinear aniMate system is quick & easy,DS lacks complex Character animation tools to create Character animation for your games and they are now in DIRECT competition with their erstwhile partners at Reallusion with the release of this:

Not sure how this all will shake out but if Autodesk is to be seriously

challenged, Daz needs more advanced Character motion tools and needs to offer more than their Genesis 3, so called game rigged, Female and her$500 USD Export licence.

You may wish to watch this space. https://www.morph3d.com <Hint, Hint.>

Hey Wolf359, thanks for the info regarding game development character creation packages. It appears the market is getting crowded. You didn't mention Miximo Fuse though. Recently acquired by Adobe. They may be able to leverage the massive cash flow from their matrix of jacked in subscribers to do some damage as well, even though the current product might be lacking at the moment. They know how to market anyhow, and bundle. Any opinions on this package?

One thing I noticed when browsing the Miximo and Autodesk products. No hot chicks. Mostly regular people in regular clothing or toonish figures. Nothing wrong with that but it suggests the content needs of game developers may be different that Daz/Poser users. Not much on the creature/alien side either so I wonder what's up with that.

Over on the iClone side? Bewbs (said in the voice of that Honest Trailers announcer) along with what seems to be a business model of selling clothing and morph packages for the figures. Seems like a Daz model. I wonder if that would be appealing to game developers? I wonder if hobbyists want to tweak and adjust their characters? Poser users seem to prefer pre-made characters.

Or maybe we're starting to get to an era of hobbiest game development where the modeling, rigging and coding well be relatively easy like Poser, and the average person can make simple games for their own amusement. That would be kinda cool.

Interesting stuff. Perhaps if Poser would concentrate on getting these different characters into their program rather than exporting their content out they would do well. I'm thinking Poser users are more concerned about getting new figures than Game Devs would be interested in importing Poser content in.

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hornet3d posted at 10:58AM Wed, 09 September 2015 - #4144593

Quote - > Quote - Part of the "creativity", part of the "fun and personal satisfaction", is to build the content yourself.

That's what YOU say!

All teasing aside, Tony, I've spent over $1500 on modeling softwares that ***I can't begin to understand! ***And before everyone starts berating my intelligence, I'm not a dummy. I have degrees in mass communications and film, electrical engineering, and psychology. I've written books. I'm good enough at Poser that people hire me to illustrate for them.

I'm not an idiot, (contrary to popular opinion) but no tutorial I've run across has made Wings understandable to me. Sculptris... Blender... ZBrush... they all make no sense to me! All I wind up with after spending the money and hours and hours of grief is a shapeless nothing!

For my purposes, I can either buy content or go do something other than Poser. 

I doubt I am alone.

 

Nope, you are not alone.  I have tried some of the Digital Tailor tutorials and that has been the best for me, that and Silo.  However the most I have done so far is to modify items purchased for my own use.  On the whole I purchase content and then modify the materials either within Poser or, for figures, I use Paint Shop Pro and layers.  I have added scars, tattoos and freckles that way and I enjoy it, good as Silo is I don't get the same buzz from that.

I just cannot see me spending the time to build something that could take me a week (plus the year gaining the skills) and yet I could buy of $10.

Ditto to subscribe to this thread.

I have a lot to do and not much time to do it in yet I spend as much time as I can using Poser. DAZ for me was mainly to gain great models and then quickly import for use in Poser. I don't post much in my gallery. For exposure post I elsewhere. As it says above. Why should I spend weeks trying to model something that I could buy for 10 bucks. If both of us are of the same mind; with respect to creator and purchaser, the synergetic result is that we both get what we want. The Original Poster makes a lot of assumptions, most of them wrong about who buys models and why. I don't recall being asked either question so that reduces his results by at least two.

One thing he is correct about is the ability to use instancing. Either in animation or a static model, that would be a godsend. It's the reason I made several purchases that emulate this within Poser.

"You may wish to watch this space. https://www.morph3d.com"

Interesting is this an off shot of DAZ?? the logo has similar colors to the new Daz Icon.

_ **"You didn't mention Mixamo Fuse though. Recently acquired by Adobe. They may be able to leverage the massive cash flow from their matrix of jacked in subscribers to do some damage as well, even though the current product might be lacking at the moment. They know how to market anyhow, and bundle. Any opinions on this package?"

**_

Hi I nearly forgot about mixamo!! yet another player in this crowded field I do like that it seems more geared toward "toon" style figures which may be more suitable for games aimg at certain genres& demographics.

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wolf359 posted at 8:44AM Thu, 10 September 2015 - #4227518

"You may wish to watch this space. https://www.morph3d.com"

Interesting is this an off shot of DAZ?? the logo has similar colors to the new Daz Icon.

Bottom of the page. :)

bhoins posted at 10:48AM Thu, 10 September 2015 - #4227553

wolf359 posted at 8:44AM Thu, 10 September 2015 - #4227518

"You may wish to watch this space. https://www.morph3d.com"

Interesting is this an off shot of DAZ?? the logo has similar colors to the new Daz Icon.

Bottom of the page. :)

Got it!! nice move by Daz

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They could get a ton of new buyers (or upgrades) by lowering the price a whole lot! ...wait, they just did that, woohoo!!!!

wolf359 posted at 6:16PM Thu, 10 September 2015 - #4227566

bhoins posted at 10:48AM Thu, 10 September 2015 - #4227553

wolf359 posted at 8:44AM Thu, 10 September 2015 - #4227518

"You may wish to watch this space. https://www.morph3d.com"

Interesting is this an off shot of DAZ?? the logo has similar colors to the new Daz Icon.

Bottom of the page. :)

Got it!! nice move by Daz

Of course it's an off shoot of DAZ it says so on the bottom of the page.

Who is Morph 3D Morph 3D is a new venture from the team that manages DAZ 3D. We're dedicated to delivering top-quality assets to game developers and 3D professionals. With our global community of top artists, we create tens of thousands of new 3D assets and serve millions of downloads each year.

Of course this means they want to crush Poser users. What'dya bet?

1. Daz has started a rebranding process beginning from logo. All hints to a repositioning of the firm in the semi-professional market, distancing in the process from any connection with Poser. They do not want to "crush Poser users" they want to make people forget about their Poser related roots <sarcastic icon, unsupported by those shitty Emoji).

2. Morph3D offer is not a half-baked external tool but an integrated, hosted within Unity3D, game character customization environment, something not even comparable with Poser (and, AFAIK, free).

3. The OP was asking about G3, there is no DSON support for G3 in Poser. Considering that SmithMicro has selected a render engine different from Iray, I don't see why they should add the critical dual quaternion skinning to Poser. You know the drill, cutting the nose to spite the face.

3rd point not relevant here, it was for another thread (Renderosity forums UI is so abysmal than you can post a comment to the wrong thread).

B.t.w., why can I edit my last post?

quietrob posted at 9:48AM Fri, 11 September 2015 - #4227661

Of course this means they want to crush Poser users. What'dya bet?

Your logic escapes me here. How does Daz 3D expanding, adding a new store and adding new customers equal wanting to crush Poser users?

Ye the game sector is a different market. I don't see how that crushes Poser users to be honest. Daz users, Poser users, all become game users who will buy game assets. Only "crushing" that will take place is between SM and DAZ who provide content to that market. Then again, SM does not sell game content externally. So basically, Daz will be competing against other asset providers in the stores there.

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So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

If gaming assets are different than the 3D models we use, perhaps I'm not entirely correct. I look forward to gaining knowledge on this matter.

You can convert content from these stores to become game ready (need license agreement in order to do so), or you can use and buy content designed in the format that is game ready (assets, sold at the game engine stores). Those are the main differences.

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