hmm, never tried that switch.  

been meaning to try a prince albert accessory for him.

Quote - > Quote - Foreskin?

Yeah. If you switch his foreskin morph on and then try to pose his junk, or add any other morphs - horrible things happened. Horrible, horrible things..... :scared:

Oh, my! My imagination is running wild. I do not even want to attempt to reproduce this error. 

lol. 

Well, you could always use Jepe's ULF gens if Tyler's default bits don't function correctly, or aren't adequate (poor guy doesn't have much going on there to begin with, LOL). They are made to fit M4, but will work on any figure with some repositioning. And they're free. And they have several add-on sets that are also free, including celebrity shapes/sizes. They aren't the greatest, but they're the best available so far, especially compared to that shriveled little thing M4/M5/M6 comes with. LOL.

~Shane

lol, well, I've held-off saying this since I purchased Poser 10, but as there's talk about the "Gens" and "Foreskin" right now, I might as well take the opportinuty to point something out.  I can't remember which Poser figure it was for, but if I remember correctly, one of them actually had a dial called "UnCircumcise" - something like that.

Human males are born with a foreskin.

The foreskin should be there by default with a dial for "Circumcise" if you don't want it to have a hoodie for whatever reason.  I just looked at Tyler and the situation is worse still, I can't see a dial for the foreskin to exist either way, and because I'm not religious, to me that seems kinda rude.

If you look at the Genesis gens, they are done correctly; a foreskin by default because that is the anatomically correct thing to do.  They assume no religious preference, and nor should the gens on the Poser figures.  Haven't played with the gens enough to know of the problems you're all having, but the whole foreskin thing needs rectifying to be anatomically correct, not just on Tyler, but on any figure that assumes (or appears to assume) a religion.

For obvious reasons, I believe all humanoid Poser figures should be neutral by default.
I'm not religious, so the only worshipping I do is that of women

Quote -

If you look at the Genesis gens, they are done correctly; a foreskin by default because that is the anatomically correct thing to do.  They assume no religious preference, and nor should the gens on the Poser figures.  Haven't played with the gens enough to know of the problems you're all having, but the whole foreskin thing needs rectifying to be anatomically correct, not just on Tyler, but on any figure that assumes (or appears to assume) a religion.

For the price of what the Genesis gens cost, they should be able to get the Gen2 Female pregnant.

:lol:

Back to the OP 's question.

Why are male figures less popular?

All depends on what you wanna do with them.
All depends in what corner you build.
All depends on the end customer.

From my free stuff :
Example 1; The Forestrunner was a requested item for Roxie

Roxie The Forestrunner 253 downloads
Rex The Forestrunner   119 downloads

Here Roxie has the lead.

Example 2 :  The Romans

Roxie The Roman has 224 downloads
Rex The Roman has    192 downloads

Here the difference is far less.
Roxie still wins, but the difference is small.

SuzyQ2 The Roman has 55 downloads in her first day out (The initial rush is over)

But? SuzyQ2 is lesser known, and it is a toon figure.

Conclusion?
It depends on WHAT you build and WHO you build it for.

Rex The Roman is historically corect, Roxie The Roman is not, while SuzyQ2 is fantasy. :-)

Told ya guys and gals before; There is a lesson in everything I release. LOL.
Technical and otherwise.

Happy Posering
Tony

... and I'm ROFLMAO that Roxie the Roman got a single download! Not because you didn't do a good job, but because it is something that NEVER EXISTED in the Wild!

I repeat my observation: Many people are in SERIOUS denial as to what Poser is actually used for by the rank and file! 

Quote - lol. 

Well, you could always use Jepe's ULF gens if Tyler's default bits don't function correctly, or aren't adequate (poor guy doesn't have much going on there to begin with, LOL). They are made to fit M4, but will work on any figure with some repositioning. And they're free. And they have several add-on sets that are also free, including celebrity shapes/sizes. They aren't the greatest, but they're the best available so far, especially compared to that shriveled little thing M4/M5/M6 comes with. LOL.

 

~Shane

Thanks. M4 really does need help in that department! Skin matching is always the problem though.

Quote -
..... I just looked at Tyler and the situation is worse still, I can't see a dial for the foreskin to exist either way, and because I'm not religious, to me that seems kinda rude.

Tyler does have a foreskin morph somewhere. Better than nothing, but doesn't play nicely with poses and other morphs. Don't have Poser on this machine to find it though.

I agree. Figures should be complete with genitals and males should be complete with foreskin (even if it's not on by default). I guess it's an American thing? But makes rendering naked males annoying for Europeans :cursing:

@ basicwiz

Well, let these 2 be cristal clear.

a) There are other forums to discuss penises. LOL.

b) I"ll never become popular, as I"ll never build slutware. LOL.

I might do sensual, OK.
I might even do sexy. OK
But I"ll never do slutty.

Nah, I"ll never become popular in 3D world. :-) LOL.

@vilters: ROFL. True.

@Toastie: Check out Powerage's site. Something there that might interest you that takes M4 textures, so it matches perfectly.

I just want to thank Wiz for making my day!

Wow, I've not heard the term "Rank and File" since my dad used it, and even then, I always thought he was saying "Ranken File".  I thought it was something he made up himself because he's the only person in the world I've ever heard use the term.  Never heard it anywhere, not in the street, not in films, not anywhere ...

Until now!

"I agree. Figures should be complete with genitals and males should be complete with foreskin (even if it's not on by default). I guess it's an American thing? But makes rendering naked males annoying for Europeans :cursing:"*

It's not a regional thing, it's a religious thing.  That's why I personally don't like the way it's done (because I'm not religious).  It has nothing to do with where you're from.  Some people choose to be circumcised where religion is not involved, but for the most part, circumcision is a religious thing. 

The human male has a foreskin by default no matter where they're from, so any representation of the human male requires a foreskin by default (unless it's representing a male of a specific religion).  These things have no place for people who are not religious.

Anyway, just thought I'd point it out seeing as the discussion was currently on gens and foreskin.

Quote - *

It's not a regional thing, it's a religious thing. 

Really? It seems to me to be Americans that are circumcised. But maybe that's just the er... models (snerk). I guess if it's a religious thing then all the American "models" must be Jewish!

(I'm guessing Jewish, I don't know anything about religions, sorry).

Quote - @Toastie: Check out Powerage's site. Something there that might interest you that takes M4 textures, so it matches perfectly.

Oh? Thanks. I'll take a look!

Really? It seems to me to be Americans that are circumcised. But maybe that's just the er... models (snerk). I guess if it's a religious thing then all the American "models" must be Jewish! *(I'm guessing Jewish, I don't know anything about religions, sorry)

Makes no difference what the religion is, the point is, I'm not religious so I don't expect to see this kind of thing on a Poser figure; the figures should be neutral by default. 

Hopefully they'll rectify it and ensure they conform to default human male anatomy.

Quote - *
Really? It seems to me to be Americans that are circumcised. But maybe that's just the er... models (snerk). I guess if it's a religious thing then all the American "models" must be Jewish! *(I'm guessing Jewish, I don't know anything about religions, sorry)

Makes no difference what the religion is, the point is, I'm not religious so I don't expect to see this kind of thing on a Poser figure; the figures should be neutral by default. 

Hopefully they'll rectify it and ensure they conform to default human male anatomy.

It depends. A good number of Jews do it in regards to their religion, while a number of people do it at the behest of a doctor who probably believes it has health beneits. My brother, who is non-jewish, had it done to him. I was given the choice and said no.

It's extremely clear to me that we have 'way too many people here who don't have NEARLY enough to do.

Quote - It's extremely clear to me that we have 'way too many people here who don't have NEARLY enough to do.

Well, I'm at work right now, and I'm not supposed to be on line. Uh oh, I think my boss has seen me.! Damn, he's coming over. gotta go--!

I hope that doesn't include me, Wiz.  What I said is valid (and important) and it was brought up because of the discussion going on (gens and foreskin).

Makes no difference whether a person gets circumcised due to religion, illness, or whatever other reasons exist.  What matters is that the foreskin is part of the male anatomy by default, so I expect there to be a foreskin by default evey bit as much as I expect there to be two arms, two legs, and a head by default.

I'm not religious and have no time for religious symbolism in products I purchase.

I don't use the male mesh, but if I did, I don't expect to have to build a foreskin for him or have to "UnCircumcise" him.  I expect him to conform to default male anatomy and that means a foreskin by default.

Quote - > Quote - was there a tyler render thread?

he was bundled into the anastasia d/l, so he really didn't have his own fanfare?

As far as i know, Tyler never had a render thread.

anyone want to do the honors?

@ Pumeco

What you said is :

1. Not important at all.
2. Has absolutely nothing to do with the OP's question.

And is on the same level as to why the female default textures have no nipples nor public hair. 
Female fugures are far less "correct" the their male conterparts.
None have breasts, all have helium filled balloons. Is that correct?

If you are looking for anatomically correct figures, there are none in Poser nor DS.

Your comments have absolutely nothing to do with ""why are males figures less popular"".

Calm down folks. 

Pumeco is correct - male genital mutilation is primarily a christian/jewish thing. It's part of their religion, so you're going to find it most often in areas where those religions dominate, even when those practicing it are not necessarily religious. Thankfully it's becoming less common in the U.S. but it still happens every day. Personally it should be outlawed, as it is no different than female genital mutilation, but you rarely ever hear it referred to as such, for obvious reasons. 

Anyway. I'm pretty sure all the male Poser figures have a foreskin option. Some work better than others.

@Toastie: The ULF gens take M4 textures. And to correct my previous post, I don't think Jepe is the original creator, he just makes a lot of add-ons for them (or made, as I'm not sure he's still an active user). 

~Shane

@Shane
Thank you.

@Vilters
Of course it's important; Poser figures should not display any form of religious symbolism by default.

Hmmm. Circumcision isn't quite the same as female genital mutilation. In concept, it's exactly the same -- and for that reason alone, it should probably be outlawed.

In practice, though, there are differences. Circumcision removes the foreskin, but leaves the penis with sensation, and the man attached to it can still function sexually, and experience pleasure in sexual sensation. Female genital mutilation usually (though not always) includes, not only removal of the skin covering the clitoris, but the entire clitoris itself, making ordinary sexual function impossible. Even when it is just the removal of the hood, because of the nature of sex (a rough surface rubbing against and creating friction against the clitoris vs a circumcised penis inside the lubricated and soft surface of the vaginal walls), removal of the clitoral hood makes sex extremely uncomfortable, if not impossibly painful. Circumcision of the male penis, when done properly, does not. When surgical mistakes are made, though, it can be absolutely devastating to the male anatomy. And such mistakes do occur.

That's not to say that I agree that parents should get to choose to do this to their male or female children infants. Or that it's an acceptable practice to remove parts of an infant's body for merely symbolic reasons. I don't think it is.

However, in areas where HIV infection is endemic, where drugs to treat the infection are difficult to get or far too expensive, and where condom use is still abhorred by many, circumcision has been shown to reduce the rates of heterosexual transmission. It may well have some value there. But its value as a reducer of disease transmission in sub-Saharan Africa does not mean it is equally valuable in the first world. It is not.

As for it being a religious procedure, it isn't. It's a regional and cultural practice in North America that has almost nothing to do with religion. Up until recently, it was standard practice in North American hospitals -- under the belief that it had health benefits and lowered rates of infection and improved sexual sensation -- and as a result, most now adult American men were circumcised as infants.

I spent much of my young adulthood in North American and didn't see an uncircumcised penis in person (hah!) until I met the Englishman who would become my husband. As teenager, my friends and I did see occasional photos of uncircumcised penises, and the unanimous response was "EW!". Obvoiusly, I got over this. 

As for this being an important part of Poser models, the females are grossly incorrect, and I haven't seen a single morph or add-on anywhere (nevermind the silly morphs that come with some of the figures) that looks anything like a normal female who hasn't had labiaplasty. So if our standards of genital realism come from American porn movies, it should be no surprise that circumcised penises are also considered the norm.

It bugs me when moral considerations affect realism such that certain models completely lack genitals. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it's really worth arguing about. Except obviously, I felt the need to reply. :D Mea culpa.

TL;DR:

--- Shane, I agree, though FGM -- in practice -- is usually (though not always) much more invasive and often leaves girls unable to experience sexual pleasure in their genitals. Does that make circumcision of males okay? Not in my opinion, especially given the risks of brutal surgical errors.

--- Circumcision may have some value in reducing disease transmission in Sub-Saharan Africa, but not in the first world. Nevertheless, it has been a common practice in North America in the 20h century regardless of religious affiliation.

--- Poser models don't have realistic genitals, and even the add-ons available at other stores leave much to be desired. Is this a serious problem? Not for me. Does it have anything to do with the OP? I seriously doubt it. :D

Um. I have no idea what the religion thing is all about. I've managed to almost completely avoid religion all my life, thanks largely to my hippie parents

I do know that European men, and in this case European men who are.... well lets call them "art" models... are generally not circumcised and American "art" models usually are. This leads me to believe that it's an American thing. I prefer the unsnipped version so appreciate Daz/Poser models who have the option available as to me it's more realistic.

Thanks for the pointers for finding the ULF gens. I don't actually do all that many nude renders, but I do like to have all the options available for the times that I do. (And preferably options that don't turn themselves inside out - eeeep!)

Quote - Calm down folks. 

Pumeco is correct - male genital mutilation is primarily a christian/jewish thing. It's part of their religion, so you're going to find it most often in areas where those religions dominate, even when those practicing it are not necessarily religious. Thankfully it's becoming less common in the U.S. but it still happens every day. Personally it should be outlawed, as it is no different than female genital mutilation, but you rarely ever hear it referred to as such, for obvious reasons. 

Anyway. I'm pretty sure all the male Poser figures have a foreskin option. Some work better than others.

@Toastie: The ULF gens take M4 textures. And to correct my previous post, I don't think Jepe is the original creator, he just makes a lot of add-ons for them (or made, as I'm not sure he's still an active user). 

 

~Shane

Uh, Shane, with all due respect to you and your beliefs, characterizing circumcision as genital mutilization is a little harsh and frankly incorrect. As i noted earlier, while it is done mostly for religious purposes, some doctors also feel that it has health benefits. And fully one third of the male population in the world is circumcised.

Clarkie, I'm pretty sure Shane is referring to those that never got to decide.

Quote -
Clarkie, I'm pretty sure Shane is referring to those that never got to decide.

I'm sure he is. My personal and extremely unscientific sampling of male opinion on this suggests that some circumcised men wish they were never circumcised as infants, some uncircumcised males wish they had been, and a large number don't give a damn one way or another.

That the procedure, or lack of it, affects people in different ways and to different degrees makes it a difficult subject, fraught with strong emotional reactions on both sides. It's not easy to come to a rational and "correct" answer, as a result, and the moral and health implications are something that hospital administrators all over Europe and America still grapple with. We won't solve it here, in any case.

I agree with you in that I'd like my male models to look realistic and "pre-surgical" by default. But the females aren't correct either. For me, however, it's not such a big deal.

Quote -
Clarkie, I'm pretty sure Shane is referring to those that never got to decide.

Maybe... however as moderator of the forum haphazardly mischaraterize a popular religious and medical operation as "mutilization" is a little much. As i said my brother chose to have it done, i did not. May I suggest we drop the subject?

OMG, Moriador has me off block at last!
A whole week, have you missed me? :woot:

*Edited content for inappropriateness. After I thought about it, Clarke is right, it's inappropriate here. Apologies to all. 

As for female genitals in Poser being accurate or not, there's a lot of complex forms going on in that area that are difficult to model correctly without increasing geometry in the model to a level that would allow for proper representation of all the forms. I think Lali's bits have been recognized as being the most accurate for females in that regard. And we all know that DAZ has historically opposed the ready availability of genitals on their models. Since their figures are the most popular, it's not surprising the gens of both sexes are always rather lacking. So you have to look for 3rd party sources that make up for it.

Anyway, there shouldn't be any problem discussing male bits here, since female bits are discussed in a large majority of threads, while males get the occasional one thread, that most people tend to avoid. Just keep it clean and as close to on topic as possible without the politics. 

~Shane

Quote - May I suggest we drop the subject?

NO!

Just kidding.

If there's anything in this thread of value for future (or current) human figure creators, it's this: don't assume you can get away with ignoring any anatomical details.

I'm surprised we haven't had any dentists remarking on the sad state of 3d human teeth. Or that both males and females are completely lacking uvulas.

Edit: 

Shane -- sure, we can discuss the moral, religious, and health implications privately. You're right. Those topics don't belong, as you say, in a forum about 3d models.

The accuracy -- or inaccuracy -- of various bodily parts should be on topic here, even if people get a bit queasy about the discussion.

Edit2:

Quote -
OMG, Moriador has me off block at last!
A whole week, have you missed me? :woot:

Do you really want me to answer that honestly? 

Just kidding. I kept hitting the unignore button to read what you'd said. I finally decided that was just plain silly. If I wanna read your posts, I should just read your bloody posts. :D

Quote - Anyway, there shouldn't be any problem discussing male bits here, since female bits are discussed in a large majority of threads, while males get the occasional one thread, that most people tend to avoid. Just keep it clean and as close to on topic as possible without the politics. 

 

~Shane

Well circumcision is very rare where I'm from and there is a strong debate to ban it completely at the moment. So cut males would be not very realistic in my renders.

I think it's reasonably on topic as it's potentially another reason why male figures are less popular. It's a reason why it's more difficult for me to make a male nude look realistic in a render than a female nude. Not saying that Daz/Poser females have very realistic genitals but it's less glaringly obvious to me than a missing foreskin.

Obviously it doesn't help that with M4 you had buy the not very impressive genitals seperately, so that it even costs more to render a male nude Daz figure than a female one! :unsure:

Quote -Maybe... however as moderator of the forum haphazardly mischaraterize a popular religious and medical operation as "mutilization" is a little much. As i said my brother chose to have it done, i did not.

May I suggest we drop the subject?

Well its not my intention to offend anyone and if that's the case I appologize. I just prefer not to dress up an issue with fancy words that deliberately take the focus off of what something actually is, regardless of what delusions are responsible for it. 

And I was responding to Moriador's post, it wasn't my intention to turn it into a debate.

Back on topic.

~Shane

**
@Moriador**
When you said you were going to block me, I thought yeah, like you'd keep that up for long.  I knew you wouldn't be able to resist having a little peek now and then, epecially if someone quoted me.

:biggrin:

Sorry Shane, yup, back on topic!

Quote -
OMG, Moriador has me off block at last!
A whole week, have you missed me? :woot:

does it tell you if some one has you on block ?

How do you know if some one blocked you ?

Why aren't male figures more popular ?

most pretty fantasy Art work has girls

most ugly fantasy Art work has boys

Poser has lot more pretty then ugly CGI Art

Royo's puts girls in ugly scenarios ,like no other thou.

Ewww! Nekkid male characters! Ewww yucky! :-) I know, part of the problem!

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Tyler don't need no stinking clothes.  tee hee.

Hah. I spent several hours experimenting with all of his features the other night. I was quite impressed. But I also came to the same conclusion. It's a crying shame to put clothes on that body.

Have to agree, looking at that! :thumbupboth:

What was I thinking, wasting my time putting clothes on that?!

Agree the Alex head is better than the default. Still, who needs to see his face?

Was there ever an update to fix his foreskin? Blackhearted did mention something about looking into fixing it, but I don't know if anything ever happened.

Quote - > Quote -

OMG, Moriador has me off block at last!
A whole week, have you missed me? :woot:

does it tell you if some one has you on block ?

How do you know if some one blocked you ?

---

Why aren't male figures more popular ?

most pretty fantasy Art work has girls

most ugly fantasy Art work has boys

Poser has lot more pretty then ugly CGI Art

 

Royo's puts girls in ugly scenarios ,like no other thou.

He knew I blocked him because I told him I was going to do it. :) I just wanted to make sure I could stop quarreling with him. It was to stop me as much as it was to stop him. I figured he could understand that. 'Twas not personal. 

There's tonnes of "pretty" fantasy art with boys in it. Lots of males and females in collectible card game art, game art in general, board game art, RPG art. And as far as I can tell, the only difference between the boys and girls in Vallejo's art is that some of them have breasts and feminine looking faces, and others don't. They're all quite muscular, and they appear in similar poses and circumstances.

Royo is the master of the slutty looking women in fantasy art. I actually kind of like him, even if the sparkles he adds to swords and other shiny things has been copied so much it's become a cliche. But yeah, you're right. Girls and monsters, indeed. :)

Brom is my favorite by far. Lots of females -- not very many are "pretty" though. :D

While sleeping I found the right answers to the OP's question.

(1): Male figures have no breasts.

And (2): Mostly the handle is too short to pump him up.

And (3) : He is not self sustainable. He needs (1)  to get the handle going.

But he has no (1). So he is in a loop he can not get out of.

Happy Posering.

"does it tell you if some one has you on block ?
How do you know if some one blocked you ?"

You don't, she told me she was going to block me, but to be honest, I just thought it was cute!

Quote - There's tonnes of "pretty" fantasy art with boys in it. Lots of males and females in collectible card game art, game art in general, board game art, RPG art. 

Absolutely. The idea that male art isn't attractive seems pretty much to be a poser-centric bias. Outside of this relatively small corner of the CG world, there are countless examples of beautiful male and female art of practically every theme you can imagine. Just look at DA. It's only 'ugly' if its intentionally done as such. But then, pretty and ugly are entirely subjective.

lol @ Vilters. 

~Shane

Quote - Absolutely. The idea that male art isn't attractive seems pretty much to be a poser-centric bias. Outside of this relatively small corner of the CG world, there are countless examples of beautiful male and female art of practically every theme you can imagine. Just look at DA. It's only 'ugly' if its intentionally done as such. But then, pretty and ugly are entirely subjective.

lol @ Vilters. 

~Shane

Exactly! There is bucketloads of stunningly beautiful male art out there. And not just the nudes ;)

Quote - > Quote - Absolutely. The idea that male art isn't attractive seems pretty much to be a poser-centric bias. Outside of this relatively small corner of the CG world, there are countless examples of beautiful male and female art of practically every theme you can imagine. Just look at DA. It's only 'ugly' if its intentionally done as such. But then, pretty and ugly are entirely subjective.

lol @ Vilters. 

~Shane

Exactly! There is bucketloads of stunningly beautiful male art out there. And not just the nudes ;)

I'm just trying to imagine if fantasy and sci-fi book cover art (or even book cover art in general) was limited to the use of female models. Well... it would change entire genres into wholly female centric narratives.

Then I try to imagine if movie makers were similarly limited because they believed that their audiences didn't want to see males on screen.

The result would be absurd.

I * have* heard people say numerous times that there is just something innately more pleasing about the female form. But the long history of visual art just doesn't support that notion.

"I * have* heard people say numerous times that there is just something innately more pleasing about the female form..."*

I agree, and I often wonder what it is about certain things that turn each species on.  It's obvious we find the female form pleasing, but we're just one species.  We men look at women and "notice" things like breasts etc, and even the sight of a navel can drive us insane!  But I've often wondered what it is that different species find attractive about their female of the species.

I mean, take a Hippo for example, what on earth does a female Hippo have that makes a male Hippo think ... OMG ... look at that!

And what about Goldfish?  They all look the same, it's not like female Goldfish have anything different that is visible to attract a male Goldfish, is it?  Goldfish don't have breasts and shapely things to distinguish them and make them attractive to a male Goldfish!

Quote -

And what about Goldfish?  They all look the same, it's not like female Goldfish have anything different that is visible to attract a male Goldfish, is it?  Goldfish don't have breasts and shapely things to distinguish them and make them attractive to a male Goldfish!

Goldfish, for the most part, are bred in captivity. If I stick you on an island for most of your life with only one woman around, my guess is you pretty much won't care what she looks like. In some cases, you probably won't even care if she's a woman.

Quote - I mean, take a Hippo for example, what on earth does a female Hippo have that makes a male Hippo think ... OMG ... look at that!

And what about Goldfish?  They all look the same, it's not like female Goldfish have anything different that is visible to attract a male Goldfish, is it?  Goldfish don't have breasts and shapely things to distinguish them and make them attractive to a male Goldfish!

This smells rather troll-icious. However, I'll humor you for the moment:

Quote - Sex pheromones are pheromones released by an organism to attract an individual of the opposite sex, encourage them to mate with them, or perform some other function closely related with sexual reproduction. Sex pheromones specifically focus on indicating females for breeding, attracting the opposite sex, and conveying information on their species, age, sex and genotype after emitted by males. Volatile pheromones are characterized as sex pheromones or defensive pheromones and usually form a specific odor and are focused on alarm sensitivity.[1] Non-volatile pheromones, or cuticular contact pheromones, are more closely related to social insects as they are usually detected by direct contact with chemoreceptors on specific parts of insects (i.e. antennae, feet).

You should know this if you've ever taken a biology class.

Humans have the same thing, it's just a bit more complex with us and with many other factors involved. 

~Shane

Quote - *
"I * have* heard people say numerous times that there is just something innately more pleasing about the female form..."*

I agree, and I often wonder what it is about certain things that turn each species on.  It's obvious we find the female form pleasing, but we're just one species.  We men look at women and "notice" things like breasts etc, and even the sight of a navel can drive us insane!  But I've often wondered what it is that different species find attractive about their female of the species.

I mean, take a Hippo for example, what on earth does a female Hippo have that makes a male Hippo think ... OMG ... look at that!

And what about Goldfish?  They all look the same, it's not like female Goldfish have anything different that is visible to attract a male Goldfish, is it?  Goldfish don't have breasts and shapely things to distinguish them and make them attractive to a male Goldfish!

Well, as I said, the long history of visual art does NOT support the notion. Males are the subject of art as frequently as females.

For some reason, you seem to be assuming that sexual attraction is the basis of aesthetic value. This doesn't make sense to me. I don't choose the colors for my kitchen cabinets because they make me feel hot, nor do I use that standard in picking the paintings and photographs that I have on my walls.

Edit to add the italicized phrase: In my opinion, art has other purposes besides sexual enticement, and visual pleasure isn't necessarily linked to sex. 

Why do you seem to think they are?