Popeye & Brutus? Ye Gods! But that's probably what would come out if he got the equivalent of a Swole pack. Either that or The Hulk's kid brother. 

Dunno 'bout M5/6 textures but I'd be happy to be able to put M4's skin on him. That's what I use on the Genesis Males anyway, mainly 'cuz I'm sick of All Caucasion All The Time that seems to be the current trend since "Ethnic characters don't sell enough to make it worthwhile".

:eyeroll: Now where have I heard that tune before? 

Tyler is a morph of Ryan2. So you could create a face morph on Ryan2 in the face room and then use it on Tyler's body. Ryan's body morphs also work with Tyler. I don't know of any other skins available for him. 

~Shane

No skins? Yeesh, and here I thought the other poser males had it bad when it comes to support! Poor Tyler.

Face room, yeah that might help. Haven't used it in ages though, not since P5.

But I will see what I have for Ryan that might work with him. And I did find a couple outfits at Poserworld so he won't have to go nekkid ... unless he wants to.  ;-)

he looks good nekkie :)

So I have seen. It seems I have much to learn about Tyler. 

has anyone tried porting poor Tyler to Blender?

all those magnets are no liked in Morphing Clothes. 

my spirit of determination is wheezing.

and then the eye texture templates are open claw like, sphere wouldda been better

is there a texture template for tyler somewhere or ryan rather?

was trying to make one but it's confusing me, overlapping business, crikey

and why isn't his obj in the geometry folders?

is there a syntax cr2 obj pointer, when the geometry is in a library subfolder but the subfolder isn't in the default folder so that the cr2 can find the geometry no matter what folder the subfolder is in?

thanks

Apparently the cr2 and obj files are zipped -- look for .crz and .obz instead. Also the geometry for him isn't in the geometry folder but the Ryan subfolder of your Libraries:Character:People folder. Not sure about templates though, I don't recall seeing any when I installed my brand new Poser Pro this afternoon. Still trying to get the hang of all the new stuff in it, so far I am absolutely loving the fact I no longer need a crap ton of magnets to fit clothes to most of my custom characters. That Copy Morphs From (whatever figure to whichever figure) function is bloody brilliant! I vote it should be standard in all Poser versions from now on.  :-)

Quote - is there a texture template for tyler somewhere or ryan rather?

was trying to make one but it's confusing me, overlapping business, crikey

and why isn't his obj in the geometry folders?

 

is there a syntax cr2 obj pointer, when the geometry is in a library subfolder but the subfolder isn't in the default folder so that the cr2 can find the geometry no matter what folder the subfolder is in?

 

thanks

Personally, i hate the way Poser maps it's figures. You could remap them of course, but that would only apply for your particular figure. Anyway, maps for Ryan/Tyler are found in Textures->Poser 8->Ryan->P8 Ryan Templates.

P8 Templates! doh >.<  thanks.

i searched cp store on 'Tyler'.  3 hits, a pose set, tyler himself, and a kid4 character named tyler.  a few more hits on a ryan search. 

dawww, they added a tyler hair fit  Kailen Hair For V4 M4 and Tyler by EmmaAndJordi

Not a Tyler Question but it is about males. Does anybody know where I can find a shirt that will open all the way for M4? The only one I've seen in the marketplace here is short sleeved and I need long sleeves. Also it can't be dynamic -- yes I know dynamics are supposedly perfect for this sorta thing but the last time I went near the Poser cloth room I nearly had a breakdown. You do NOT wanna know what happened to Michael's kilt. :shudder: Damn thing still gives me nightmares.

If there's nothing like that for M4 perhaps for V4? I haven't figured out the fitting room yet but I still have my trusty old CrossDresser and I ain't afraid to use it. ;-)

Er, except on V4 heels. It either crashes or mangles them about 2 1/2 times out of every 4. Which is still a better record than DS Autofit whenever I try putting them on a Genesis thingy. :-(

you need shoes that are a single mesh for the autofit. some shoes have the decorative bits that aren't welded.

read it in a tutorial :)

I don't mind how Tyler/Ryan is mapped-not really.  I've been wanting to work on a texture for him off and on since I've gotten Tyler for Ryan, but haven't had the time nor merchant resource for him.   I've found a few resources that can be used for any figure, not just M4 so today I started fiddling on an idea.  I've also started a process of making a skin shader that mimics skin, adding detail like wrinkles and such via displacement or normal maps and added bump maps as well.  

Not an easy task, but then I like the challenge.  Haven't gotten far with the shader system yet, but just tacked on some skin texture maps on the morph I tweaked from Tyler/Ryan's dial morphs available.

Haven't done a thing with the maps so far other than to get them ON.  I have quite a bit of work to do still.

and a side view of him.

and a side view of him.

we need uvswapping in poser. 

his lip area is confusing >.<

I can see that, yes.  Very differently mapped, and there's that little quirk in the UV map in the middle of his lips that is all kinds of funky.  

I'll be using those UV templates to work on the skin shader base.  By shader, I mean the attempt at making skin from the ground up using basic maps if need be and shader systems rather than resource photos with burnt in specs and stuff.

The maps I'll be using will be mainly to show wrinkles, bumps/moles and veins.  Coloring the skin's details I hope to make the maps mainly for certain details such as the blue of veins, different colored areas (specifically around the ears, eyes, corners of mouth, elbows, etc.).  I am hoping to figure something out here while doing it.

those previews can see big shade difference between the seams.

Quote - those previews can see big shade difference between the seams.

Which is why I stated; It's just been started (the textures).  All I've done so far is sort of fit them to the template-no other work done to him so far.

I like the M4 monsters best. Something sexy about a babe

and a monster. The M4 addon gen is not to great, but over

at rotica there are a number of gen models to chose from.

Anything from man to beast to alien. Same goes for females

to.

What ticks me off is that the vendors at DAZ were constantly giving the poor excuse their male clothing wasn't selling so they weren't going to create more.  In the last year, I've seen some great clothing items for the Genesis males that were never available for M4.  I don't use Genesis or DS, and I never could get the DSON importer to work in Poser without crashing.

Has the male clothing become more popular now that it is solely created for DS thus edging out the Poser users?  Obviously it's selling because more and more male clothing is being created.

As was already mentioned, many of the clothing items for M4 were not of good quality which is probably why they didn't sell very well.  Some had morphs that didn't work while others had no morphs at all.

I don't use Genesis or DS ether and DSON was a waste of

my time-never could get it to work. But there are a few male

characters I've bought that look almost exactly like the movie

stars they were intended to look like. M4 characters in general

seem to be bland as with their clothes.

Quote - What ticks me off is that the vendors at DAZ were constantly giving the poor excuse their male clothing wasn't selling so they weren't going to create more.  In the last year, I've seen some great clothing items for the Genesis males that were never available for M4.  I don't use Genesis or DS, and I never could get the DSON importer to work in Poser without crashing.

Has the male clothing become more popular now that it is solely created for DS thus edging out the Poser users?  Obviously it's selling because more and more male clothing is being created.

As was already mentioned, many of the clothing items for M4 were not of good quality which is probably why they didn't sell very well.  Some had morphs that didn't work while others had no morphs at all.

I don't think we should turn this into yet another DAZ/DSON-importer bash session, because that's not what this thread is about and other poser users have it working and is using it in renders; but what you see is the figure technology improving where it's easer to bring clothing to market because you don't have to do dozens of fits and jcms for male clothing. When the figure content creation tech improves where you can concentrate on features/look rather than fit, then it because more feasible to work on more male clothing.

Still female clothing outnumbers male clothing, but it's a lot easier to bring clothing to market with the Genesis system.

@Male_M3dia:

There are hundreds of bikinis for the Victorias of any generation. But I have only one speedo for Michael. M4 to be correct. I used DS to convert the speedo from the M4 'Basic Wear' (Upgrade) for G1-M5 and G2-M6. It was not a perfect fit for M4 and does not have very much morph options. They have some underwear for M4 to M6 but if you retexure it, it still does look like underwear and not like a speedo for the pool. Can't you create one for M6? :-)

I rarely use the M4 one because I wasn't wild about the fit on M4.... but DZheng has a lot of options for Genesis and M4 that you can convert over; you can do a search right in this store, complete with lots of morphs, including pull down ones. I think sickleyield may have one or two lying around as well.  I also pull things from D3/M3 as well. I used this old item from D3 for a M6 promo that I've attached. I've even grabbed the undies from Tyler and refit those to Genesis as well.  Phs7ven has a bodywears product here as well that can be retextured into a bikini as well. I haven't found the need to buy too many items because I'm able to convert the ones from other figures that look better than what's available now.

You're right, the M4 speedo fit is not great. I know some of DZheng's products but I think they look mostly too skimpy just like the bikinis for the Victorias :-).  But thanks for the reminder about Phs7ven BodyWears for Michael4. I have that! And I will now converting them in DS and creating textures for it. Thanks! :-)

Things are a little disheleved now as my family is renovating my house, but I have a cowboy outift for Tyler in the free stuff section. Think I make a pair of chaps to go with that when I get everything set back up.

Poser is another tool to allow us to sublimate our desires and fantasies in a fun and safe way. The Pin-up has been around for hundreds of years and it seems it is NOT going to go away. Most people think Males are just not as attractive as females including most females (saw a stand-up comediene just last night telling her audience how much she hates male nudes because they are (I will use the word penis-centered here but it is NOT the term she used) gesticulating in very crude and obscene ways (which for many young men may have actually been spot-on!) how which she just doesn't understand why since she along with most women I have spoken of this over the years, think that particular part of the male anatomy is "so ugly!"

So if there is such negative sentiment among men and women out there one can see the scarcity of male figures and accessories merely reflecting that sentiment.

at least that's the way I seem all this.

Quote - Things are a little disheleved now as my family is renovating my house, but I have a cowboy outift for Tyler in the free stuff section. Think I make a pair of chaps to go with that when I get everything set back up.

Chaps? Way cool we need more good ones with good morphs to make the movements of these male clothing items really realistic and for more figures than just tyler!

Quote - You're right, the M4 speedo fit is not great. I know some of DZheng's products but I think they look mostly too skimpy just like the bikinis for the Victorias :-).  But thanks for the reminder about Phs7ven BodyWears for Michael4. I have that! And I will now converting them in DS and creating textures for it. Thanks! :-)

Funny I worked 8 months on a cruise ship in the West Indies with an all Italian crew and we all wore those BRIEF, BRIEF speedos that were sooo popular in Cannes and the other beaches of Europe and the Islands. I gotta say they may have looked gross on some older fat and hairy guys (which is no different for thos old and hairy fat women in theira!) but on those of us younger and better cut males they looked good and felt great swimming in. It was like being naked and on a public beach feeling naked while having all your "Guy Bits" out of site though barely, was a nicer feeling.....better than having to wear these long johns guys wear today.

Yuch and VERY UNCOMFORTABLE when wet not to mention those stupid two tone tans they force on guys today. So as someone said earlier, Art reflects reality. God help us!  :)

Quote - > Quote - @Male_M3dia:

There are hundreds of bikinis for the Victorias of any generation. But I have only one speedo for Michael. M4 to be correct. I used DS to convert the speedo from the M4 'Basic Wear' (Upgrade) for G1-M5 and G2-M6. It was not a perfect fit for M4 and does not have very much morph options. They have some underwear for M4 to M6 but if you retexure it, it still does look like underwear and not like a speedo for the pool. Can't you create one for M6? :-)

I rarely use the M4 one because I wasn't wild about the fit on M4.... but DZheng has a lot of options for Genesis and M4 that you can convert over; you can do a search right in this store, complete with lots of morphs, including pull down ones. I think sickleyield may have one or two lying around as well.  I also pull things from D3/M3 as well. I used this old item from D3 for a M6 promo that I've attached. I've even grabbed the undies from Tyler and refit those to Genesis as well.  Phs7ven has a bodywears product here as well that can be retextured into a bikini as well. I haven't found the need to buy too many items because I'm able to convert the ones from other figures that look better than what's available now.

except for the double waist strap we wore items like that back in the late 70's. may seem outlandishly skimpy but they were believe it or not quite comfortable.

Quote - I like the M4 monsters best. Something sexy about a babe

and a monster. The M4 addon gen is not to great, but over

at rotica there are a number of gen models to chose from.

Anything from man to beast to alien. Same goes for females

to.

There are also a few M4 Gen model morphs and textures to pick from as well ans more realistic hair add-ons for getting a more realistic looking gen pack.

Quote - I gotta say they may have looked gross on some older fat and hairy guys (which is no different for thos old and hairy fat women in theira!) but on those of us younger and better cut males they looked good and felt great swimming in. It was like being naked and on a public beach feeling naked while having all your "Guy Bits" out of site though barely, was a nicer feeling.....better than having to wear these long johns guys wear today. Yuch and VERY UNCOMFORTABLE when wet not to mention those stupid two tone tans they force on guys today. So as someone said earlier, Art reflects reality. God help us!  :)

You know, in all the time I've known you on line, with a name like Shante, I thought you were female.

Quote - > Quote - I gotta say they may have looked gross on some older fat and hairy guys (which is no different for thos old and hairy fat women in theira!) but on those of us younger and better cut males they looked good and felt great swimming in. It was like being naked and on a public beach feeling naked while having all your "Guy Bits" out of site though barely, was a nicer feeling.....better than having to wear these long johns guys wear today. Yuch and VERY UNCOMFORTABLE when wet not to mention those stupid two tone tans they force on guys today. So as someone said earlier, Art reflects reality. God help us!  :)

You know, in all the time I've known you on line, with a name like Shante, I thought you were female.

The damn cornfusing power of the damn internet where no one REALLY knows you!  ;)

Not to totally necro this thread but I find this kind of debate very interesting.  However in this case I think our problem is a lot simpler than it looks.  Frankly it looks to me like 5% of the development effort for V4 was spend on Michael.

He doesn't look even remotely masculine to me.  Victoria is malleable, you can create any sort of character you can imagine.  Sad to say when I look at Michael I just see effeminite, which limits the imagination from the get-go.  

If he'd been sold more like the Marlboro man from the beginning (lol) I think we'd have a lot more content for him.  I still get comics or animation commissions from time to time involving M4, and sometimes it seems to take hours of work just to make him look like a man.

There are some fantastic vendors and products out there that have certainly helped him man up, but you can only use the same facial morphs so many times.  That said, I will admit there is more flexibility with the female form in life as there is in art.  V4 can get away with wearing men's clothes without redefining her femininity, but it doesn't work the same way for men.

Sadly I don't use Genesis so I'm not sure if he is better, but with the current state of M4 my coping strategy is to use him as little as possible.  There's definitely a market for M4, but doing this part time means I'll spend my effort where the demand is, and that's Victoria.

Quote - There's definitely a market for M4, but doing this part time means I'll spend my effort where the demand is, and that's Victoria.

And this is precisely why we don't have nice things for male figures.  No one attempts to build demand.  No one ever build a better contemporary suit than the Casablanca suit for M3.  The same can be said for Utilize's M3 clothing over at DAZ.

What you said about the M4 figure also applies even moreso to content that was made for M4.  It was quite obvious that many vendors were unwilling to put time into male clothing that they put into their female clothing - and then they would whine about low sales.  I don't mind paying extra for quality, but I do mind paying extra and not getting the same quality that I would get from a vendor's female clothing line.

For me, it is irrelevant - I use Poser 2014 - between all of my male clothing, I have a fairly extensive wardrobe for all of my male figures, even Rikishi.

The key is learning to let go of the Poser 7 workflow.

Rikishi!  I have always loved that figure lol.  Fantastic work there.  I can't turn M4 into an every-man no matter how hard I try, it's not just the clothing, it's the model.  But there are other male models out there that work really well- it would be nice if there was more demand all around for that.

M4 does have a few cool things- but I feel like I already own them all.  Freak 4 was a step in the right direction, but much less content for F4 than there is for M4 :(

There is some truth in your words ssbryan, but in my mind the thing that holds M4 and the rest of the male  figures back is lack of imagination. We just think it's far more sexier and cooler to have a female figure doig things than to have a male. You have a picture of a futuristic pilot about to take off in his plane or spaceship, we diecied to make him female instead. Superheroes become females with big breasts and supertight and tiny costumes.

Cowboys, become cowgirls, etc. etc.

Part of that may be down to personal taste.  I don't have much interest in any sort of sexy presentation for M4, in fact I think overabundance of that angle may be what's hampering sales.  Many of the M4 pose sets would be a lot more suited to Victoria, for example.  I tried to offer an alternative to some of that with sets like Gladiatorae and Conquered Beauty.

So if we take a look at badass heroes in action movies- we need more outfits like that- the rugged, stone cold warrior or, to use your example, F16 ace.  Mainstream entertainmentt is wildly slanted toward female for "sexy" and male for "warrior".  That's simply what's marketable, in video games, movies, TV, toys and even books.  That is of course an over simplification, but true nonetheless.

The digital space may not agree with this trend, but to SELL it's going to reflect it.  It sounds silly but in my opinion the lack of "manliness" is what keeps male 3D characters from becoming more mainstream; along with the fact that both male and female artists generally prefer to render the female.  Just like in line at grocery you'd find guys checking out the magazines with women on the cover, and women checking out the magazines with women on the cover.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it just is.

Unfortunately, most straight males don't do too many renders of men. That seems to be the domain of mostly gay men and straight women. I will use men, but generally when I'm telling a story of some kind and I need men to populate my worlds.

It would, of coursem be interesting to see a render thread showing renders of "manly" men. You mentioned the Marlboro man, and for me, there you go. Walking towards the camera, with a saddle over his shoulder in one hand and a lariat in the other.

This whole issue can still be narrowed down to one word,  "Pin-Up".

The pin-up has been around for a very long time and it has always constituted sexy images of women not men. Since Poser first started it seems to me it has been yet another tool to continue the creation of Pinu-p and erotic fantasy art and for some reason in the straight comunity that primarily constitutes women. If that is indeed the case it seems to be a good area for Poser Content Creators to exploit and create content for that genre.

A lot of people complain the clothes created for Poser women makes them look lie "Whoes".

Really? I guess these people can't seem to seperate the difference between "Whoes" and pinup models.....but then conservative society always associated nude or fetish models of that ilk as whoes anyway so has anything really changed in the vanilla world?   :(

Quote:
"He doesn't look even remotely masculine to me ..."

I have to agree with you there, I don't know what it is, can't quite put my finger on it but I've said a few times that the DAZ males always look effeminate to me.  At first I thought it was maybe down to a specific artist, that maybe DAZ were using the same artist to do all promo renders so maybe it's just the way the artist does things, they way they pose them and the expressions they give them.

But I eventually saw stuff that was different, so I threw that suspicion out of the window and to this day, I still don't know what it is.  But everytime I get a marketing email from DAZ that has a male in it, I get the same impression, they look effeminate despite being muscular and having stubble etc - they still manage to look effeminate.  Maybe a woman might not see it, but from this blokes perspective they look absolutely effeminate.

To be fair I suppose there's the odd character once in a blue moon that doesn't give that impression, but for the most part, they just look effeminate to me.  Never got that impression from the Poser males though, can't say I've ever thought of a Poser male as effeminate.

The Poser males do at least look "male".

I kind of agree. Seems more like the well groomed male image that might be attractive to another effeminitie male. I know that sounds kinda homophobic or whatever but I didn't know how else to put it sorry.

However, I saw a spot on tv about a new shaver being marketd to men. It really said to take it all off the way your woman wants to see you all neat and groomed.

I just don't understand why that would be the truth but I guess today it holds true according to marketers, that men need to remove all body hair to be more attractive to women. It started I think with the spread of the male body building movement where pumped up dudes removed their body hair for showing their "cut" in competition and seems to have evolved from there.

I have seen on tv and read interviews in those silly womens magazines where young women talk about hating their guys body hair or prefering men without body hair. Ans of course thinking of giving themselves an added "edge" with attracting a woman go ahead and take it all off. Go figure.

If you take this same figure and add a good body hair tex (there are several from DAZ and here that are real nice) I am pretty sure the figure will take on a more "masculine" look at least how I define masculine. Which to clarify is NOT a guy Perfectly muscled and oiled (conditioned and moisturized?) who doesn't care too much about his detailed nit picky grooming or needing to be perfect and prouldy "put together"  who feels quite comfortable wearing  a scruffy beard, disheveled hair and in cloths not too neatsiepoo or color coordinated.

When I was younger whenever I went to a local bar directly from work covered for instance in saw dust-having worked all day doing carpentry work or disheveled, comfortable enough not caring about how I looked, I was always hit on by some woman who apparently liked what she saw. Whenever I groomed immaculately shaved and combed and dressed to the nines, I guess I seemed to be trying to hard and went home alone!  Go figure.

I love for instance the figures for M4 available at RDNA. The Vicking and old world warrior guys there scream MAAAAAAN! I got a few of them and they just fit comfortably with MY particular disheveled casual and ROUGH and tumble definition of what I have always held my self  image up to as a definition of MAN!

My two sense!  ;)

The DAZ males (and females) are not built to be normal sized, normally proportioned figures - Go over to hivewire forums and read through Chris Creek's posts on Dawn & Dusk development.  Proportion-wise, the main Daz figures (and Dawn & Dusk) are freak shows.  It is one of the reasons that David 3 was still in heavy use after M4 rolled out - it was a more realistically scaled character.

M4 was built off of V4.

Dusk is being built off of Dawn.

No surprise that they seem a bit "off".  They aren't designed from the begining as a male mesh.

This is why I gravitated back to the SM figures for my go-tos- they are realistically proportioned & sized figures.

**
@shante**
Just as well I'm single then, I ain't shaving my legs for anyone.  Nor am I getting a shower every bloody day if I don't need one, nor am I going to use face moisturiser - I'm a bloke - not a poodle!  And that stuff about you being more attractive to women when you're smelly and scruffy, I say good on you mate, I totally agree with your way.  I've tried explaining that stuff to my mother on several occasions whenever she starts her witty remarks.

The amount of times I've gotten into the car with her and the conversation has gone like this, is unreal:

When's the last time you got a shower?
You'll never get a woman smelling like that!

Mam, not again, you watch too much crap on the telly, it's all those beauty for men adverts and talk shows and all that other crap you watch.  Do you want me to shave my legs while I'm at it?  There's still women out there who prefer normal men, they even get turned on by the smell of a mans sweat, so it just goes to show how much you know!

Yeah, well I've never known it.

You're always saying stuff like that to me.

Well what do you expect, tidy yourself up a bit and you'll get a girlfriend, you're not that ugly!

Mam, if I wanted to get a girlfriend right now, I could, you don't know what you're talking about.

Well why don't you then?

No.

Yeah, cause you smell.

*No, it's cause I'm waiting for someone who's like me, scruffy and cloudn't give a crap.  Don't worry, I'll know she's the right one for me as soon as I smell her!  You know very well I can't stand women who look too pampered and all that sort of thing.  And I don't fancy getting choked with the smell of perfume every time I breathe in.

Well why don't you go and get one of those sorts of girls then if that's what you want?

Believe me, if I knew where they were, I would, she'd be licking my armpits for breakfast.

Shut up, don't be disgusting.
*Did you bring your shopping list this time?

Believe it or not, that's a real conversation, that's pretty much always the way it goes, time after time, literally to the word.  It's a a relief it is to have some real life confirmation of my suspicions.  You have given me renewed encouragement to hang on for my kinda woman (although to be fair, I would have done anyway).  In fact I might print what you said and show it to her next time she starts her witty remarks, because she will, she always does!

:thumbupboth:

@ssgbryan
That explains a lot, and personally, I've always felt the necks are either too long or wrongly shaped on the males.  Women have long necks, and look right with them, but men don't, I think men need to look more "stocky" by default and it's just not working right with the DAZ male proportions.  I know something isn't right though, I just not sure what it is.

Weird.

Uhhhm!?   :)

Me thinks I done guv da wrong image of mesef here.

Lemme clarify.....I am NOT stinky or dirty just not meticulously groomed. You can be clean and unstinky and not be a neatsiepoo. I many times let my nails grow way too long for a guy or let my beard go for months all scruffy and scragly before (not like Howard Hughes but close!) I eventually trim it down. I have always loved wearing hand-me-downs and worn shabby clothes....my favorite place to buy clothes was Salvation ARMY OUTLETS AND THRIFT SHOPS or wear clothes and shoes until they almost literally fall off before I replace them. Hell I threw my girl friend out of my apartment for throwing out a favorite pair of old Adida cross trainers and replacing them with a spiffy new pair of Nike runners...(which I hated so much I never wore them!), because they had become "too Holey" for her tastes.

That is just me and the way I am, and despite your and my mothers' chagrin at how their cute sonny boys turned out, is the way I have always been and will be.

Because the figures we create in Poser and the images we place them in are in a way a vicarious re-enactment of our innner or outer selves, they can easily become our avatars representing our own self images.

I repeat, there is a difference between "dirty/smelly" and scruffy. I AM NOT THAT OTHER SELF!   :)  LOL

Bad enough so many in this community thought me a woman for so long, the last thing I want is for you all to think me a stinky pants!    LOL

Funny I have always prefered M4 to M3. I always thought it was a more masculine figure out of the box and better looking body wise. M3 had too long a neck and all stringy and tense and those shoulders/pectorals and underarms were nasty constructs on all the Mil 3 figures. The only exceptions were the Mil3 Freak and David and Steph a bit. I own them all but have never used them because of that. The Mil4 figures seem so much better though they have their issues. And what i find frustrating is though the new Mil6 and Genesis figurs out of the box now, seem even nicer anatomically, they came out too late and fo the wron application for me to take advantage of them.

It is true I seem to see more nice stuff available for these newer figures than was available for M2 and M4...which is also frustrating.

I hope this is not off topic but I have to ask: Do the content users here dress a figure before you place it in  scene or do you create a character, place it in a scene and pose and then try to dress it to finish the idea up?

I hate not being able to spin all those dials and morphs to crete a character, deciding what kind of scene to place it in and posing them in that scene and finally dressing them because the clothes never conform properly that way. Do any of you find that annoying or do you morph them and dress them before placing them in  scene first?

Quote - **
@shante**
Just as well I'm single then, I ain't shaving my legs for anyone.  Nor am I getting a shower every bloody day if I don't need one, nor am I going to use face moisturiser - I'm a bloke - not a poodle!  And that stuff about you being more attractive to women when you're smelly and scruffy, I say good on you mate, I totally agree with your way.  I've tried explaining that stuff to my mother on several occasions whenever she starts her witty remarks.

The amount of times I've gotten into the car with her and the conversation has gone like this, is unreal:

When's the last time you got a shower?
You'll never get a woman smelling like that!

Mam, not again, you watch too much crap on the telly, it's all those beauty for men adverts and talk shows and all that other crap you watch.  Do you want me to shave my legs while I'm at it?  There's still women out there who prefer normal men, they even get turned on by the smell of a mans sweat, so it just goes to show how much you know!

Yeah, well I've never known it.

You're always saying stuff like that to me.

Well what do you expect, tidy yourself up a bit and you'll get a girlfriend, you're not that ugly!

Mam, if I wanted to get a girlfriend right now, I could, you don't know what you're talking about.

Well why don't you then?

No.

Yeah, cause you smell.

*No, it's cause I'm waiting for someone who's like me, scruffy and cloudn't give a crap.  Don't worry, I'll know she's the right one for me as soon as I smell her!  You know very well I can't stand women who look too pampered and all that sort of thing.  And I don't fancy getting choked with the smell of perfume every time I breathe in.

Well why don't you go and get one of those sorts of girls then if that's what you want?

Believe me, if I knew where they were, I would, she'd be licking my armpits for breakfast.

Shut up, don't be disgusting.
*Did you bring your shopping list this time?

Believe it or not, that's a real conversation, that's pretty much always the way it goes, time after time, literally to the word.  It's a a relief it is to have some real life confirmation of my suspicions.  You have given me renewed encouragement to hang on for my kinda woman (although to be fair, I would have done anyway).  In fact I might print what you said and show it to her next time she starts her witty remarks, because she will, she always does!

:thumbupboth:

@ssgbryan
That explains a lot, and personally, I've always felt the necks are either too long or wrongly shaped on the males.  Women have long necks, and look right with them, but men don't, I think men need to look more "stocky" by default and it's just not working right with the DAZ male proportions.  I know something isn't right though, I just not sure what it is.

Weird.

I'm not smelly either (I'm definitely scruffy though) :-D

I'd only have to get in the car without combing my hair and I'm a "scruffy sod" so then my hair would become the reason for that same conversation.  If it were up to mothers to decide, I'm pretty sure we'd all be walking the streets with a manicure, moisturiser on our faces, and waxed legs!

I just hate that perfectly groomed look, like an office worker or whatever.  The only time I like that sort of thing is if it looks stylish or imposing, but I hardly ever see that.

But yup, those DAZ males definitely look like they've been raiding their mothers makeup and beauty products.

well disclosure certainly took this thread over.

I apologize for my disclosure here folks and so turn this thread back over to the subject at hand:  POSER MALES BEING SHORT CHANGED!

I'm usually the one that gets blamed for that sort of thing!
I'd better apologise as well cause I'm on my last warning for being a naughty boy.

Michael being crafted from a female model seems to explain it.  Humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years we're pretty tough to fool that way =p