I risk being booted out, or having this thread locked and deleted. Well, just let me say what's on my mind.

Not going to use the DAZ3D V6 or M6 figures 99 per cent of the time. I may be in the minority, but freedom of expression, etc, eh.

Therefore, not much interested in the V6 and M6 products, thank you very much.  

Am using Poser Pro 2014. Have DSON Importer, have Michael 6, have Genesis Essentials, and have purchased M6 goods. Found that I hardly use them at all. In fact, not using anything that has a PoserCF installation file.

No offense to merchants and creators who build for V6 and M6. It's a personal thing, and I just wanted to say it.

 

Eternal Hobbyist

 

I bought a suit a couple of years ago, when I thought I might be looking for a new job. I've never worn it. Now it's too big. Would have to get the suit altered to fit, and it might not work, might not be worth the expense.

I've got a food processor in my cupboard that I used once.

I used to bike to work, but I got tired of putting up with people's road rage. Now my bike is sitting on my porch, slowly rusting.

I have a fairly decent, sharp 50-70 mm kit lens that came with my Nikon D300. After I bought the 18-200 mm with VR, I stopped using the other lens.

I've got some running skirts that I bought for races because they hide embarrassing sweat patches better than shorts or leggings. I don't race any more. Won't be wearing them again, most likely.

Have about 200 books on my shelves that I'll probably never find time to read.

I have a coffee strainer designed to make Saigon coffee. Keep meaning to get some beans ground, but never got around to it. It's been in my drawer for 6 years.

Sometimes life's just like that, ya know. :D

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

That's so polite, does that really qualify as a rant? :biggrin:

regards
prixat

Ha ha ! @Moriador - I try not to waste my Michael 6, but it's... not so easy...

@prixat - ya think so ? OK. I be more hardnose next time :-)

 

Eternal Hobbyist

 

I haven't jumped on the V5-6, Dawn, Genesis bandwagon either.  I'm nowhere near the limits of what one can do with good old Vicky4 and there's the not inconsequential matter of much monies worth of Vicky's clothing.  

My strategy is to thank (profusely!) the artists for continuing to support Vicky4 by making products for her.  Despite most stuff finding it's way onto the sleazy Russian/Chinese file sharing sites within microseconds of being released, I buy the items I like.  Yes, I actually spend money for stuff.  (all you downloaders pay attention to this fact.  I know you're here reading the forums).  Money is a powerful incentive to continue making stuff for a certain figure.  A few times,  when I've seen something I REALLY liked, I've asked a vendor if they'd port their product to Vicky4.  I don't believe that whinning in a forum is of much use.

 

 

Quote - I used to bike to work, but I got tired of putting up with people's road rage. Now my bike is sitting on my porch, slowly rusting.

Get that bike back on the road and you can have the last laugh over the driver's graves.  Bicycle commuters live longer that those who don't and yes, I have the facts, figures and statistics at hand.  I've been commuting on a bicycle for 39 years now and at 58 am still in great shape and the money saved has bought four degrees (one for each member of my family).  There are techniques for dealing with pigheaded drivers (a plastic bag filled with paint is a great weapon).  This is a subject that I have religious fervour for and am more than willing to give help and suggestions to another cyclist.  PM me for all the gory details.  

Quote -  

Not going to use the DAZ3D V6 or M6 figures 99 per cent of the time. I may be in the minority, but freedom of expression, etc, eh.

 

My minor rant is just the misconception that people think they have freedom of speech in privately owned sites. You don't. At all. That's how you can say something and end up banned for it. ;)

Even in public entities, you certainly have freedom of speech, but you absolutely don't have freedom from criticisms or reprecussions as a result of that speech. That's pretty much how the whole thing works: you say something and either you get praised for it or criticized and hammered for it. Then life goes on. So it just boils down to is what you have to say worth the reprecussions for saying it.

So you could say something about the goverment on their property and not get locked up by them for saying it. But it doesn't stop your employer from handing you a pink slip if they find out.

 

end of rant.

hahaha...that's a rant? I would hate to see you break up with somebody.

Comitted to excellence through art.

Quote - I haven't jumped on the V5-6, Dawn, Genesis bandwagon either.  I'm nowhere near the limits of what one can do with good old Vicky4 and there's the not inconsequential matter of much monies worth of Vicky's clothing.  

My strategy is to thank (profusely!) the artists for continuing to support Vicky4 by making products for her.  Despite most stuff finding it's way onto the sleazy Russian/Chinese file sharing sites within microseconds of being released, I buy the items I like.  Yes, I actually spend money for stuff.  (all you downloaders pay attention to this fact.  I know you're here reading the forums).  Money is a powerful incentive to continue making stuff for a certain figure.  A few times,  when I've seen something I REALLY liked, I've asked a vendor if they'd port their product to Vicky4.  I don't believe that whinning in a forum is of much use. 

I am with you, I spend real money every month a large chunk of it on more stuff for V4 so I am glad vendors are still making stuff for her.  I always buy the stuff I use, including all the software and never give copies to my friends of family.

It is great that others make free stuff but I must admit I rarely use it but I see no justification for stealing someone's work just because it has been ripped off.

 

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - > Quote - I used to bike to work, but I got tired of putting up with people's road rage. Now my bike is sitting on my porch, slowly rusting.

Get that bike back on the road and you can have the last laugh over the driver's graves.  Bicycle commuters live longer that those who don't and yes, I have the facts, figures and statistics at hand.  I've been commuting on a bicycle for 39 years now and at 58 am still in great shape and the money saved has bought four degrees (one for each member of my family).  There are techniques for dealing with pigheaded drivers (a plastic bag filled with paint is a great weapon).  This is a subject that I have religious fervour for and am more than willing to give help and suggestions to another cyclist.  PM me for all the gory details.  

When I used to ride through Houston in the '80s, folks were pretty polite. In the city, bikes were uncommon. Up here (Victoria, BC), 6% of all commutes are by bike, and people are angry. You do see cyclists doing stupid stuff (riding the wrong way down a road, ignoring traffic lights, etc), so they give cyclists a bad name. And drivers are angry. They express that anger by passing you very closely, not looking behind when they open doors, and cutting you off.

I got doored once. My bike was destroyed, and it very nearly got me killed. So if there are cars parked on the side, I don't ride close to them. Drivers hate that. So they are intent on making it dangerous in whatever way they can.

Given that you can kill a cyclist with your car here and suffer nothing more than a few hundred dollar fine, people just don't care. It's not worth the risk to me.

Instead, I run. Takes me 3 times as long, but I still get the fitness benefits. And when I cross the road on a crosswalk, I get to feign a limp and cross v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y as a way to get back at the drivers for making my cycling life so much hell that I quit riding.

---

Back to the topic at hand... I don't use my M6/V6 characters all that much. Yet. But I expect that will change. Genesis, however, gets quite a bit of use. 

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Attached Link: http://poser.smithmicro.com/poser10-poserpro2014/?hq_e=el&hq_m=1042890&hq_l=4&hq_v=8b861c88a5#upgrade

I will never understand those Poser 4,5,6 and 7 nostalgics. What is out-dated V4 good for, now that we have weight maps since Poser9 ?

I allmost never buy stuff for V4. The only exceptions , where I can't resist, are Erogenesis  and AlphaSeed content. I strictly refuse to buy remote dial content. "Morphs ++ required" means a no go for me. Make custom morphs, or I won't buy it.

I want latest Poser technologie, I want Poser to grow. V6 and M6 are DAZStudio. That's where they belong and that is where they work best. I don't need DSON. <better deleted my comment about Dawn>

I would actually like to have better Poser native figures, well modelled and beautyfully shaped out of the box. DAZ raised the bar with genesis2. I'd like to see Poser following.

The good thing is, we might get better Poser figures. SM keeps listening. at least they did till now.

The point I just cannot believe is, Poser has improved so much - as demanded, and so many seem to be stuck in old Poser4 days.

Quote - I risk being booted out, or having this thread locked and deleted. Well, just let me say what's on my mind.

Not going to use the DAZ3D V6 or M6 figures 99 per cent of the time. I may be in the minority, but freedom of expression, etc, eh.

Therefore, not much interested in the V6 and M6 products, thank you very much.  

Am using Poser Pro 2014. Have DSON Importer, have Michael 6, have Genesis Essentials, and have purchased M6 goods. Found that I hardly use them at all. In fact, not using anything that has a PoserCF installation file.

No offense to merchants and creators who build for V6 and M6. It's a personal thing, and I just wanted to say it.

 

Is there a problem someone can help you with? Not me, of course, but someone with knowlegde of what they're talking about?

Quote - I will never understand those Poser 4,5,6 and 7 nostalgics. What is out-dated V4 good for, now that we have weight maps since Poser9 ?

Depends on what you're doing. Ask Isikol. V4 got him on the front cover of Heavy Metal Magazine. Lots of great art using generation 4 Daz figures out there, including a commerical artist who makes illustrations for MTG cards.

If you don't use V4/M4, and you don't use Genesis 1 or 2, you've got Anastasia, Tyler, Rex, and Roxie, and very little content. 

Not saying you can't do great renders with just those 4 figures. You can. But I prefer not to limit the content I'm willing to use. If it works for me, I'll use it.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Even after years V4stuff is driving every other figure out of the market.

You check out the store thinking "what can I get for nice stuff for Roxie , anastasia Miki4, Rex or Ryan?" , and all you get is Victoria 4 stuff with morphs ++ required.

I'm just not good in dealing with mainstream ;)

There are several versions of a weightmapped V4 available and I use them when needed. But most pictures I make don't need it, so I don't see V4 as being "out-dated". It is still the most versatile figure there is for Poser in terms of addons (clothing, hair, morphs, skins, props, textures). 

Genesis in all its incarnations just has too many usability problems in Poser and is just difficult to work with if you do scenes with more than one or two figures. I occasionally use the figure, but often it is just not worth it.

I am still waiting for more options for Dawn, Roxie and other figures - especially in terms of morphs and skin sets. That is the main reason I rarely use them.

future poser may eventually be natively compatble with gen2. 

never say never.

then you could use your figures from the cupboard :)

may be up to V8/M8 by then, lol

---

♥ My Gallery Albums    ♥   My YT   ♥   Party in the CarrarArtists Forum  ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff

I recently started to just bake out the Genesis figures as native Poser figures.  Yes, it loses some of its bag-o-tricks and it lacks reasonable scaling and IK but I'd rather have that than the emulation and the issues that follow.

.

Quote - I recently started to just bake out the Genesis figures as native Poser figures.  Yes, it loses some of its bag-o-tricks and it lacks reasonable scaling and IK but I'd rather have that than the emulation and the issues that follow.

I did that after DSON got released and again a few months ago when G2F was released with the new version of DSON. Yes, baking a native figure works, but it has a lot of disadvantages:

 - It always loads all the morphs which are installed, so it will get huge over time

 - You have to convert over Poses, clothing, hair and other DSON props, which in some cases (poses) is a lot of work because you have to do them one by one, same for mat poses, expressions. (since DSON is out, you can't read the orignals)

• Since the baked version has no JCM's and DSON is no longer there you have to do a lot of morph brushing to remove poke through with bending

• And for each new morph you get you have to bake everything again (figure and clothing) to get the new morphs in

That is why I gave up that route

 

Well, frankly I just did it to see how involved it would be to do it.  It was just moving the cached .obj, renaming it, repointing it and then changing all the outline mode to parent display style.

Am I going to build a baked genesis wardrobe?  No indeed.

There are existing natively-designed figures that would already be optimal for that.  Dawn, V4, native peeps, etc.  Like you said there's a V4 WM that would already be optimal with more advantages for a pure-Poser user such as myself.  My choice and all that.

.

Not much of a rant; you could have at least said 'heck'! 

Genesis 2 is a nice mesh (I did buy the head and body morphs and some clothing) , but the oddball material zones require converting materials in Studio, even with the Gen 4 UVs, which is too much hassle for me. YMMV.

Besides, DAZ just had much of the DO Genesis 1 stuff on "Spring Cleaning" for 60% off, and most of it is two years old or less.  Genesis 3 will likely be out by next fall, if current trends continue, and I can get some deals on Genesis 2 stuff if I'm tired of Antonia, Generation 4 and Genesis 1 by then...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Quote - I will never understand those Poser 4,5,6 and 7 nostalgics. What is out-dated V4 good for, now that we have weight maps since Poser9 ?

 

Except that, in the latest versions of Poser V4 has weight mapping and her textures benefit from SSS, so V4 is not out dated, at least not for me.  I accept that some of the stuff for V4 has to be modified to work in the latest version on Poser but then I have been converting MAT poses to material for years so nothing new there.

No nostalga for the old versions of Poser but for what I do I have yet to see anything the the G figure does that I cannot do with V4WM.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - Even after years V4stuff is driving every other figure out of the market.

You check out the store thinking "what can I get for nice stuff for Roxie , anastasia Miki4, Rex or Ryan?" , and all you get is Victoria 4 stuff with morphs ++ required.

I'm just not good in dealing with mainstream ;)

If you aren't using V4, then you have to use the entire Poser ecosystem.  There are a lot of tools available, IF you choose to use them.  Most people choose not to, and are really missing out.

Hair - Netherworks Hair Control System will easily move that Gen4 hair to other figures.

Clothing - Fitting Room (if you have 2014), Xdresser/WW if you don't.  If you are using Dawn, Lyrra's Fitting Room magnets for Dawn are "must have's"  I have a lot of V4 clothing content that has never been on V4 - but it has been on Sydney, Jessi, Miki, Mariko, Anastasia, etc.

Textures - Texture Transformer/Texture Converter 1 & 2.

Shoes are the final frontier......i.e. I am not very good with PhilC's Shoe Last.

I think I am the only one who uses native Poser models almost exclusively (the exceptions are Dawn and Miki 4).

I have never owned anything outside the box. I started modeling so I could make my own stuff, and now I pretty much only use Poser to test what I model. Every now and then I will do a render for the gallery, but I am wasting about 95% of Poser's capabilities with what I use it for.

I told myself that I wanted to get PP2014, but then it would be closer to 98% waste if I keep at my current trend. Although, the animation tools alone would be very tempting to play with.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

Ok I'm going to try something new and toss this one up for a vote for locking or leaving as-is. 

The topic could be construed as baiting, but I don't think that's the OP's intention. But I don't get the point of the post either. If not baiting, then what? It doesn't seem like a requiest or a complaint, just an incomplete statement. So why is this important for everyone to know exactly? 

 

 

~Shane

Lock.

It's not like anything new was said or conveyed, it doesn't really serve anything other than bait the same conversation and it will eventually end up like the other ones that already been locked.

Sure you don't need another headache to monitor.

Quote - Ok I'm going to try something new and toss this one up for a vote for locking or leaving as-is. 

The topic could be construed as baiting, but I don't think that's the OP's intention. But I don't get the point of the post either. If not baiting, then what? It doesn't seem like a requiest or a complaint, just an incomplete statement. So why is this important for everyone to know exactly?

As I read it, he can't personally justify using Genesis 2 models, and is stating why, and perhaps is looking for a reason he should look at them again.  Some folks have mentioned advantages of various models, from DAZ and elsewhere.

It's called discussion, which happens on many fora, and used to often occur here.  As it's been peacable thus far, I'd say consider your post a warning, Shane, and let it stay for the time being...

 

EDIT; I just looked to see what is trending elsewhere, and there is a 3-page thread on "diabetic willpower" and another on Poser 4 freebies. ..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

I've read two negative posts in this thread, three counting the moderator's, and the other two were from the same person, one at a prompt from the moderator.

Quote - It's called discussion, which happens on many fora, and used to often occur here.  As it's been peacable thus far, I'd say consider your post a warning, Shane, and let it stay for the time being...

 EDIT; I just looked to see what is trending elsewhere, and there is a 3-page thread on "diabetic willpower" and another on Poser 4 freebies. ..

I agree. I wondered, at first, what the point was with this thread. But since it has been peaceable so far -- and the OP is exceptionally polite -- I don't see a problem. 

The angst Poser users feel over being unable to use Genesis with as much ease as native figures is clearly something we, as a group, need to air. No point stilfing the discussion as long as its' mature because the topic is going to keep coming up. It's something we want to talk about. It may seem pointless, but good decent conversation is never really pointless. Sometimes in the midst of it, new ways of looking at problems are proposed or solutions are discovered. 

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

i bet 10 polygones,8 vertices & 20 pixels it will get violent & locked buy page 3.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

The OP doesn't state why he's not using it, just that he's not. That's why I said it seems like baiting due to the subject, and that this same topic always becomes an argument. Giving a specific reason why in the original post would make it more valid, less baiting.

Whatever. Anyway, keep it mature and don't digress into figure bashing or arguments and it can stay. 

 

~Shane

I really can not see why people continue to bother with any version of Genesis?

DAZ/DS left Poser compatibility out of their own free will.

Well? Let them go. What is the issue? I really do not see the problem.

Yes, Genesis was bait to get us all to leave Poser and jump on their wet DS dream.

That did not happen and then they cane with an alfa of a beta of an importer that never should have left the drawing room in the first place.

At best, the Genesis system works at 50% in Poser.
Genesis is a "DS system", it is NOT a STAND ALONE Poser figure and due to its technical properties never will be.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - I really can not see why people continue to bother with any version of Genesis?

DAZ/DS left Poser compatibility out of their own free will.

Well? Let them go. What is the issue? I really do not see the problem.

Yes, Genesis was bait to get us all to leave Poser and jump on their wet DS dream.

That did not happen and then they cane with an alfa of a beta of an importer that never should have left the drawing room in the first place.

At best, the Genesis system works at 50% in Poser.
Genesis is a "DS system", it is NOT a STAND ALONE Poser figure and due to its technical properties never will be.

For a change, I mostly agree. :D

I don't see it as a problem, any more than I see the hoops you have to jump through to import any rigged figures or materials into an environment or render engine they weren't designed for as a "problem". Poser to Vue, Daz to Carrara, Poser/Daz to Reality, Poser/Daz to CD4, 3DS to Poser, etc, etc.

There are some technical limitations that can be helped by a variety of hacks; that could be helped if the software companies tried a bit harder to engineer compatibility; that can be worked around with various degrees of success. So, you know, I'll support -- sometimes with cash, if it serves my purposes -- any effort by any of these companies to make things easier. :)

Some of us have more or less tolerance for taking the trouble to make things work. That Daz historically made content 100% compatible with Poser is neither here nor there, except for the nostalgia factor -- and the fact that the market hasn't fully adjusted yet.

I really, really, really wish I could fit Canon and Pentax lenses on my Nikon and vice versa, play Xbox games on my Playstation, use Mac software on my PC, and plug my North American electronics into European outlets without an adaptor. But I'll live. :)

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

How come there's never a fight over the dragons.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - How come there's never a fight over the dragons.

'Cuz between the Mil 2 Dragon (and other Poser compatible Daz dragons), Dinoraul, and Swidhelm, we're pretty much covered? :D

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Quote - > Quote - How come there's never a fight over the dragons.

'Cuz between the Mil 2 Dragon (and other Poser compatible Daz dragons), Dinoraul, and Swidhelm, we're pretty much covered? :D

Then where definitely covered with V4 & her 10,000 pairs of panties.
in stead of beating a dead horse endlessly.
beating a dead dragon might be fun for a change.:bored:

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

You're not alone.... here's another one who for various reasons is still using the older figures :) Whenever I create a scene, I find myself using M3/M3, V4/V3, Don, Simon, James, Ryan, Judy, Jessy, Alyson..... anything that's made for Poser really, but not the newer figures though. Load figure, add hair, conform clothes, pose, render, ready.... that's my typical poser figure usage :) Beyond that, I'm lost and if it takes longer that, I find it a waste of time.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

I was going to buy the M5/V5 combo bundle the other day cause it was less than $50 but by the time I actually decided to do so it was no longer $50, lol. My luck. I have no use for the pro bundles for each of them due to the fact that I would never use 90% of the included content and would only be buying them in order to have the complete anatomical figures.

Same case for M6/V6. Don't have them yet because the base figures aren't anatomically complete, and I have no use for most of the content included in the pro versions of each but would have to buy it just to get a complete figure. When I do character sets, I want to do a complete character and include clothing and skin textures, not just one or the other. I want to make sure the skin and whatever custom morphs I might create for the figure will match the whole figure, not just the parts that are politically correct. But I can't do that with the Gen5/6 figures because part of them are locked behind a price wall. This has prevented me from completing several character sets I've begun with the intention of them being cross-compatible with Gen4/5/6. So as a content artist it's very discouraging. That's really the only gripe I have with the latest DAZ figures. Otherwise I think they're beautiful figures and would like to support them. Eventually I'll wind up having to give in and buy the pro bundles anyway if I want to use/support these figures, even tho 90% of it won't even get installed. 

I have no problems using DSON and I can convert all of them to Poser natives with a few minutes of work and patience if that's what I need to do, thanks to threads done by folks like JoePublic who took the time to learn how to convert and share that knowledge with the rest of us. 

 

~Shane

Whenever I mention price and those special parts, someone always tells me to just buy a third party product. Which, in and of itself, isn't a bad suggestion, but i just don't get the idea behind making a portion of a figure so darned expensive to get hold of. If selling it is that much of a problem, why make it?

Anybody made a weightmapped version of the Mildragon yet?

Using 3rd party content isn't really a viable option to a content artist because it requires all his/her customers to also have those 3rd party bits in order for the product to be completely useful, and yet would still lack support for the official parts those 3rd party parts are replacing. And there are too many different ones available to support them all. If I were just doing renders that would be different, I could use whatever parts I want or needed to use. But when I buy other artist's content, if the skin sets don't include textures for ALL of a figure's official/original parts, then I'm likely not going to buy the skin. I very rarely buy 3rd party content anyway since a lot of it doesn't fit my personal needs, tastes, standards of quailty, or some combination of the 3. So I only buy when it's something I need for a specific project and don't have time to create my own. Most of what I buy these days are just utilities to make my life as a content artist easier, or the base figures to build content for. 

When I bought M3 and his morphs, all his parts were included and I wasn't forced into buying anything I didn't need just to have access to what I did need. Same with David. Same with M4. So I don't get the sudden change with the Gen5+ figures. V3 and V4 never had those extra parts so it wasn't an issue.

 

~Shane

This subject-discussion comes up every so often and serves an important purpose in that it's cathartic for the forum.  I propose that the admins let it run it's course; it will eventually die out.

Should it turn mean and ugly we can always sell popcorn and charge admission. :biggrin:

If you are a regular user of the forum then you will have seen this subject before but if you are new to the Poser Daz world then there might be valuable information here to allow them to decide which way they want to move forward and where they want to spend their hard earned cash. 

The trouble with calling V4 out of date is that some may not see this as a viable option.  Threads like this show that Genesis is useable in Poser, either with extra work or limitations but equally V4 is not going to lose support overnight as there are many people still using her and the Poser figures.  I have no problem with what people use or where they spend their money but I do worry if money is spent due to someone elses agenda.

As to keeping the thread or locking it I think it should be the same as all other threads, left opened as long as it does not get personal, abusive or both.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Agree, hornet. That's why I wanted to let people have their say instead of just being a nazi about it. There have been times in the past that the same thread would have disappeared instantly and I don't think that's fair. I don't mind any topic being discussed as long as it's poser-related and remains civil. As long as folks are enjoying the thread and can be respectful to each other and their differences of opinion, and stay (mostly) on-topic, then there's no reason for it to be locked or go away. 

Just play nice. lol.

 

~Shane

Quote - This subject-discussion comes up every so often and serves an important purpose in that it's cathartic for the forum.  I propose that the admins let it run it's course; it will eventually die out.

Should it turn mean and ugly we can always sell popcorn and charge admission. :biggrin:

I really don't see the point of people coming into threads and making such comments. From what I've seen lately, there are actually a number of people who only make such comments, but never are part of the discussion.

Back on topic..... if doesn't work in Poser, it wasn't made for Poser and I've got better things to do then try and make it work. I guess I'm not desperate enough for a new figure :) Besides, I bought tons of stuff for the 'old' figures, instead of getting more, I rather use what I've got already.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

"The OP doesn't state why he's not using it, just that he's not. That's why I said it seems like baiting due to the subject, and that this same topic always becomes an argument. Giving a specific reason why in the original post would make it more valid, less baiting."...............Ok I'm going to try something new and toss this one up for a vote for locking or leaving as-is. "

I would vote for a lock as well, there is no new perspective here.
Although rather politely stated, it IS the same old partisan anti DAZ/Genesis Drivel that seems to invite other anti DAZ/Genesis partisans to chime in
in a self perpetuating circle of mutual validations of thier personal choices

Point???......none.

Although I largely dont agree with the heavy handed moderating style over at CGsociety they do have a standard response to repetitive threads like this one as they lock it down:

"THIS SUBJECT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED HERE MANY TIMES ,PLEASE USE THE FORUM SEARCH FUNCTION" >>>>LOCKED<<<<

My website

YouTube Channel

You know, even if you do think that V4 has run her course, the thing is she did leave quite an impression. Look at Texture Transformer.  it is giving life to her old textures so newer figures like Dawn and Roxie can use them.  And of course, Hair Converter, by Nether works which pretty much does the same thing.

Perhaps the OP is feeling anxious about future support for non-Genesis figures?

I also have stuff sitting unused in my runtimes, but I don't mind. I am a collector. There have been many instances where I suddenly need something that has been sitting there idle for ages, and then I am very pleased.

But I havent really tried using the Genesis generation yet. I was also a late adopter of Daz figures, only got won over to them during the time when they were giving away the base figures for free. It worked on me, I have since boughts lots of characters, hair and clothes for the Daz figures of all generations.

Perhaps I'll come to the Genesis party at some point, but not yet. It just seems too much trouble, and I can accomplish what I need to do with the figures I have, in Poser. When other people start reporting that it is easy and quick and does not slow Poser down, I might reconsider. Even without the Genesis options, we have rich variety and very good value content available to us.

 

Poser 11 Pro, Windows 10

Auxiliary Apps: Blender 2.79, Vue Complete 2016, Genetica 4 Pro, Gliftex 11 Pro, CorelDraw Suite X6, Comic Life 2, Project Dogwaffle Howler 8, Stitch Witch

quote/

Although I largely dont agree with the heavy handed moderating style over at CGsociety they do have a standard response to repetitive threads like this one as they lock it down:

"THIS SUBJECT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED HERE MANY TIMES ,PLEASE USE THE FORUM SEARCH FUNCTION" >>>>LOCKED<<<

/ end quote

 

8 out 10 topics have been discussed here before, that would make the forum look very silly!

I say let people talk so that the forum dont die.

I vote for an AUTOFORWARD function.

Genesis is a Genesis.DS system.

As such it is NOT a stand alone figure.

As soon as Genesis or DS turn up? The post should be autoforwared to the DAZ forum.

That is thet ONLY way to avoid useless discussions like these.

Ok, I agree that with hacks the mesh can be used in Poser. But that's about it then.

10% functionality,
Allow me : WHAW!

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Quote - I vote for an AUTOFORWARD function.

Genesis is a Genesis.DS system.

As such it is NOT a stand alone figure.

As soon as Genesis or DS turn up? The post should be autoforwared to the DAZ forum.

That is thet ONLY way to avoid useless discussions like these.

Ok, I agree that with hacks the mesh can be used in Poser. But that's about it then.

10% functionality,
Allow me : WHAW!

Except there are people that want to use the DSON importer in Poser. If people don't like that or can't help them out, they are not obligated to reply or even look at the threads. Those are people are asking for help to use it in Poser, not DAZ, thus those threads belong here.

Rather than continuing these types of threads, perhaps those that feel like Poser should have comparable figures should make some type of action plan to take their grievances to Smith Micro rather than constantly bash DAZ. Bashing DAZ and its products really serves no purpose than to stir up emotions and cause fighting.

How about talking about things you can do to get the ball rolling at SM so you have the figures you need? Seems far more productive than what is happening in these type of threads.

How about turning this thread into something that you can turn into an action plan to let SM know what you want without turning it into another app war?

"Productive would be": DAZ releasing a fully Poser compatible figure.

Hey, The meshes are OK, no complains there.

And? ? MOST of us have been asking that for months, no, years already.

All DAZ has to do is release a fully Poser compatible figure.

And then you will see content sales boom through the roof.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

Damn it, vilters! You said Genesis three times too fast and then he showed up! Well, that's it then! two pages. It was a good run before the thread got locked.

Quote - "Productive would be": DAZ releasing a fully Poser compatible figure.

Hey, The meshes are OK, no complains there.

And? ? MOST of us have been asking that for months, no, years already.

All DAZ has to do is release a fully Poser compatible figure.

And then you will see content sales boom through the roof.

Several posts ago you said "Genesis is for DS and should stay there". They have their figure and platform and making money. 

In light of that, what is SM doing? That's really what you should be asking. You can't have it both ways. Unless both platforms are doing the same exact things, there won't be a native figure. So asking for figure that doesn't do everything isn't productive. 

You are customer of SM, so that's where you ask for your needs if you don't want what the 3rd party is offering. The problem is that SM was happy to let DAZ handle the figures while not working on their platform for years, so now they either have to adopt the 3rd party platform or make their own. 

Those are really SM's choices and as a customer, you need to discuss what needs to be done in order to convey that to SM, not ask DAZ to make you something, absolving SM of their duties to their paying customers.

Quote - Damn it, vilters! You said Genesis three times too fast and then he showed up! Well, that's it then! two pages. It was a good run before the thread got locked.

Yes, same old thing over and over and over again....

EClark1894 : I've not herd of them weight mapping the old dragon,poor thing.
Don't even think they have weight mapped M4.

---

Is there a M4 weight mapped version ?

M3,M4 boy parts works like like Rex's ?

---

I'm on Poser ,DAZ & alot others mailing list.

DAZ every email always has DAZ & Poser meshes.
Renderosity mailing list always has meshes for DAZ meshes.
Poser emails not meshes , diffrent software .

Go to http://www.smithmicro.com/ 
Poser is only a part

or Smith Micro youtube
Poser is only a part

---

What would Poser be with out DAZ and Vicky 1,2,3,4,5,6 ?
If there was never a DAZ ,Think we would have all this ?
DAZ made a software system to make there Vicky better ,So we should hate DAZ for it ?
We should love DAZ V4 but hate DAZ V6 ?

I never did get politics or religion.

 

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - > Quote - Damn it, vilters! You said Genesis three times too fast and then he showed up! Well, that's it then! two pages. It was a good run before the thread got locked.

Yes, same old thing over and over and over again....

Hence I voted for the lock. This is covered ground that's not really discussing real solutions.

The problem with locking a thread because it has been discussed before means that a lot of people new to Poser will miss out on help with installing V4, problems with Poser and IE 11, even with using DSON.  It's OK to say use the search function but it is not the easiest beast to use, I have problems finding what I want and I have been trying for years.  I think a new user might well give up and try another forum.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Damn it, vilters! You said Genesis three times too fast and then he showed up! Well, that's it then! two pages. It was a good run before the thread got locked.

Yes, same old thing over and over and over again....

Hence I voted for the lock. This is covered ground that's not really discussing real solutions.

So why are you then stirring the pot?  Do you even use Poser?  You have posted in this thread more than anyone else. I don't see any of your comments over in the Diabetic Willpower thread... :lol:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Stop, folks. MM's right. I shouldn't have said anything. I've actually been biting my tongue since he first posted, but  this one's on me.

Anyway, RorrKonn, I remember there was talk about weight mapping M4. I thinks someone even got started on it, but I don't know if it got  finished or not. This was back when Poser Place was still open.

Anybody know how you would go about weightmapping  the Mildragon? and No, I'm not talking about for redistribution?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Damn it, vilters! You said Genesis three times too fast and then he showed up! Well, that's it then! two pages. It was a good run before the thread got locked.

Yes, same old thing over and over and over again....

Hence I voted for the lock. This is covered ground that's not really discussing real solutions.

So why are you then stirring the pot?  Do you even use Poser?  You have posted in this thread more than anyone else. I don't see any of your comments over in the Diabetic Willpower thread... :lol:

I'm not stirring the pot. I pointed out something no one wants to talk about. 

What is SM doing? It's either bashing DAZ or demanding DAZ make something they don't need to.

It you don't want DAZ's solution, then this is what you need to discuss. This is what you should be discussing and would make these threads productive.

EClark1894 : Anybody know how you would go about weightmapping  the Mildragon? and No, I'm not talking about for redistribution?

I think you have Pro 14 it has weight mapping tools

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Well, I do have 2014.  I wonder if I just merge all zones into a weight map would work?

Darn! Just remembered, I  never did get the Mildragon. Just the Mildragon LE, and I don't think that came with any poses.

Quote - Well, I do have 2014.  I wonder if I just merge all zones into a weight map would work?

It works, but it merely converts the existing sphere maps into weightmaps, so you need to edit the weightmaps for better bending.  I've played with it for the Gen 3 figures, but I don't quite have the knack.

http://poser.smithmicro.com/tutorials/advanced/riggin301.html

 

I think LE is rigged the same as the full Dragon.  Somewhere I have Cage's Poser Place script to generate the weight injection pose for distribution if you do want to distribute it....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

No, I don't think so, although it is intriguing idea. but I've got several projects now that I'm backed up on.

My turn to RANT !!! yell scream & cuss

There is nothing more agravating then trying to learn a new app with out directions.

So where is the directions on how to manage 2 maps on 1 mesh in Blender ?

I RTFM http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.6/Manual#Textures

for all the good it did.

 

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

I'm justspitballing here, RK, but The way I worked it was to create my mat zones first. Then, you do the UVs. Once I finished the UVs I sent everything to Poser and applied my maps there. Now, that just the way I handled it. for Roxie's LBD.

Now I remeber why I never bought the full Mildragon. Sucka's expensive. For extra morphs, it's about 29.99, and for textures it goes up to almost $50.00. And as far as I can determine, no poses came in any version.

 

And as long as we're ranting, what about those stupid $25.00 coupons that Renderosity loves to give out? I've got nothing against them per se, and sometimes they come in handy. But most of mine go unused because I rarely but $25 dollars or more of content at a time. Most of the time, i just delete them sight unseen.

Quote - Now I remeber why I never bought the full Mildragon. Sucka's expensive. For extra morphs, it's about 29.99, and for textures it goes up to almost $50.00. And as far as I can determine, no poses came in any version.

I have it, but I got the Dragon Bundle for $1.99 in a distant PC sale...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Quote - I'm justspitballing here, RK, but The way I worked it was to create my mat zones first. Then, you do the UVs. Once I finished the UVs I sent everything to Poser and applied my maps there. Now, that just the way I handled it. for Roxie's LBD.

I'm curious as to why you don't apply the maps in Blender.  Is there a reason or is it just your workflow?     

Quote - > Quote - I'm justspitballing here, RK, but The way I worked it was to create my mat zones first. Then, you do the UVs. Once I finished the UVs I sent everything to Poser and applied my maps there. Now, that just the way I handled it. for Roxie's LBD.

I'm curious as to why you don't apply the maps in Blender.  Is there a reason or is it just your workflow?     

Several reasons.  I'm still not all that  good with texturing, let alone texturing in Blender. I don't always have the maps ready to texture in Blender. And I understand how Poser works better so it's just easier all around. And since Poser is the app I'm texturing for, I figure it's best to use Poser's runtime format, so it will know where to look for the textures. I probably could do it in Blender if I knew how, but I don't and I do know with Poser. So all in all, i guess you could say it's the workflow that works best for me until something better comes along.

I'm curious as to why you don't apply the maps in Blender.  Is there a reason or is it just your workflow?   

 

Several reasons.  I'm still not all that  good with texturing, let alone texturing in Blender. I don't always have the maps ready to texture in Blender. And I understand how Poser works better so it's just easier all around. And since Poser is the app I'm texturing for, I figure it's best to use Poser's runtime format, so it will know where to look for the textures. I probably could do it in Blender if I knew how, but I don't and I do know with Poser. So all in all, i guess you could say it's the workflow that works best for me until something better comes along.

Sounds like we're kinda in the same place except that I'm more familiar with Blender vice Poser texturing although that still doesn't say much.  I like the idea of doing it in Poser for the reasons you stated.  

  Thanks for the reply.  

 

ianscott888 from youtube has a tutorail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WCwXejULGI

Think i missed the asign part
done UV's first and then mats .i might be a bit backwards.
I load all the textures in blender to see if everything is O.K.

oh ,when ya see ya 2 UV's stacked over top each other in UV image/editor window
and need to rotate just one of the UV's.
How do you select just one of the UV's that's stacked over top each other ?

Think my work flow will go something like this
Modeled in C4D
Maped in Blender
Textured in Gimp.
modify textures with TopazLabs
Maps displacment,normals ,noise etc etc zBrush.
export to DAZ Poser

Don't know if i need photoshop
Think I might need
http://dev.quixel.se/ 
or
http://www.allegorithmic.com/

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - > Quote - Now I remeber why I never bought the full Mildragon. Sucka's expensive. For extra morphs, it's about 29.99, and for textures it goes up to almost $50.00. And as far as I can determine, no poses came in any version.

I have it, but I got the Dragon Bundle for $1.99 in a distant PC sale...

There's the MilDragon, and the MilDragon 2. I believe poses came in a bundle. In any case, I probably bought the MD2 when it first came out because I needed it for a commerical render (so it paid for itself). Since then, it's been discounted numerous times.

I actually use Dinoraul's dragons more often, though.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

Was going to post Saliva _ Survival Of The Sickest for getting Blender UVMaps but couldn't find a censored version

Metallica - Smoke On The Water

Disturbed Asylum

are cool

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

I think what many people miss is the fact that most Poser/Studio people want ease of use.

Not everyone has the abitlilty/time/etc to tweak everything in a scene or convert it to another character.

Do I use V5 M5 up? Nope, but I would not tell a vendor to support "X character either". Vendors are going to support what makes them money, and that is the bottom line.

The character I use the most is a modified version of V3, so if I see somehing that I want to buy, it is almost always not going to fit as all. No biggy for me because I have the tools and the know how to make it work with any wireframe. But it sure isn't a point and click operation until after it is converted.

Use whatever character you want to use. We have tons of them to choose from.

But at the same time, if you don't normally convert content for other characters, sooner or later you will have to use the latest characters.

Carry on.....

---

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store ->   <-Freebies->

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Now I remeber why I never bought the full Mildragon. Sucka's expensive. For extra morphs, it's about 29.99, and for textures it goes up to almost $50.00. And as far as I can determine, no poses came in any version.

I have it, but I got the Dragon Bundle for $1.99 in a distant PC sale...

There's the MilDragon, and the MilDragon 2. I believe poses came in a bundle. In any case, I probably bought the MD2 when it first came out because I needed it for a commerical render (so it paid for itself). Since then, it's been discounted numerous times.

I actually use Dinoraul's dragons more often, though.

Now that i think about it, there was another reason I never got the Mildragon. I don't think my system could handle it at the time. I remember that for most of my Poser life, my computer has always just barely been able to handle Poser's system requirements. The Mildragon came ut when Poser was on version 4, and at that time my Mac was using the Classic OS.  I was already borrowing Ram from my storage hard drive which gave my computer the ability to handle Poser's CPU demands, but it made my computer SSSSSSLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOWWWWW! Even V3, with all her morphs loaded was a memory hog back then, so you just know the Mildragon was a memory COW! I just loaded the Mildragon LE though and my computer didn't even flinch. We've come a long way baby!

Ya V3 had arond 60,000 polycount on a 32 RAM computer.
A 3000 polycount game mesh could crash n frezze the computer.
Oh the nightmare.:cursing:
Now Roxie has around 20.000 polycount on a 16 GB computer.

at lest I'm not the only one that's backwards :laugh:

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Thought I'd chime in before the discussion DOES get locked. I've fiddled with Genesis and Dawn. They both have their positives and negatives. My only interest is whether they will help me make better art more efficiently. Right now the answer is no because none of them will increase my results regarding concept, color, lighting, or composition. These are the improvements I'm currently seeking in my artwork. Nor will they help me with my postworking (though they might cut down the need in some instances). The time and cost to rebuy, relearn, translate, transfer and emulate is not equal to the potential benefit to my finished product.

For those that wonder how people can use old technology it's because the tech is just a means to an end not the end itself. I'll upgrade my OS, computer, software and other tools when it provides a clear benefit, not when a tech company decides to release a new product.

________________________________

My DeviantArt Gallery

My Website

Quote - Thought I'd chime in before the discussion DOES get locked. I've fiddled with Genesis and Dawn. They both have their positives and negatives. My only interest is whether they will help me make better art more efficiently. Right now the answer is no because none of them will increase my results regarding concept, color, lighting, or composition. These are the improvements I'm currently seeking in my artwork. Nor will they help me with my postworking (though they might cut down the need in some instances). The time and cost to rebuy, relearn, translate, transfer and emulate is not equal to the potential benefit to my finished product.

For those that wonder how people can use old technology it's because the tech is just a means to an end not the end itself. I'll upgrade my OS, computer, software and other tools when it provides a clear benefit, not when a tech company decides to release a new product.

 

I think your right although I personally feel many see it in far more black and white terms and feel that anyone not for Genesis is therefore against.  I am not against new tech but it has to give me benefit in either what I can do or make it easier to do what I do already.  Like you I do not feel the proven cost:benefits are there at the moment.  Others have different aims and different goals and the benefit may be there for them. 

Which is another reason why I do read Genesis threads and do not like to see them locked for, not only do others use Genesis in Poser, there may come and time when the benefits do outway the costs.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

the city mouse doesn't like the country ,thinks the city life's better.
the country mouse doesn't like the city and thinks the country life's better.
is there a right or wrong ?

 

if you browse the Poser & DAZ renders.
with out being told would ya know what it's renderd in ?
Doese it matter ?
I think what alt to matter is
Are your renders as good as the best the DAZ & Poser gallery's have to offer ?
regardless what ya used to get there.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - I think what many people miss is the fact that most Poser/Studio people want ease of use.

Not everyone has the abitlilty/time/etc to tweak everything in a scene or convert it to another character.

Do I use V5 M5 up? Nope, but I would not tell a vendor to support "X character either". Vendors are going to support what makes them money, and that is the bottom line.

I think that you are spot on here. I have noticed that people in the forums talk about all of the complicated and troublesome sounding things that they have to do to make this figure or that item work in their program to get a render. I, like the original OP do not use those figures because I do not want to fuss and struggle with every scene I set up. 3D content is very expensive, so as an end user I really want the items I purchase to work the way they were created to. This is not to say that I never re-texture or refit anything, but I don't want to be locked into that pattern by virtue of the figure I choose and I think the Genesis1 and 2 system in Poser works that way simply because of the nature of the process involved and the fact that those figures were not created for Poser. I know that a lot of people in the forums are more advanced users and therefore are more likely to be comfortable with jumping through several hoops to make things work, but I do not believe that reflects the average user. It seems that the OP wants to know that he/she is not alone. I think that there are many of us of the same mind.

"People who attempt define what art is or is not, are not artists"---Luminescence

Quote -
I think that you are spot on here. I have noticed that people in the forums talk about all of the complicated and troublesome sounding things that they have to do to make this figure or that item work in their program to get a render. I, like the original OP do not use those figures because I do not want to fuss and struggle with every scene I set up. 3D content is very expensive, so as an end user I really want the items I purchase to work the way they were created to. This is not to say that I never re-texture or refit anything, but I don't want to be locked into that pattern by virtue of the figure I choose and I think the Genesis1 and 2 system in Poser works that way simply because of the nature of the process involved and the fact that those figures were not created for Poser. I know that a lot of people in the forums are more advanced users and therefore are more likely to be comfortable with jumping through several hoops to make things work, but I do not believe that reflects the average user. It seems that the OP wants to know that he/she is not alone. I think that there are many of us of the same mind.

LIke any thing else, one person's hoop jumping is another person's standard workflow.

Lots of people find dynamic cloth to be too difficult or annoying to use. I find fiddling with adjustment morphs to fix pokethru to be more annoying. As a result, I use dynamic clothing more often than not.

If a character is going to be showing well-known bad joints (many of which are improved in Genesis), for me, it's easier to use a Genesis 2 figure, even with the limitations of the DSON importer, than it is to fix those joints with morphs.

If I want to use a creature that has serious scaling and clothe it, it's easier for me to use Genesis to get the clothing to fit, even if I have to load it in Daz Studio and create a scene to load back into Poser, than it is for me to use Poser's fitting room.

Other people will find things for them are the exact opposite. That doesn't mean they're wrong or just need to "see the light". It just means they work better using a different method and prefer to do something else.

In the end, if you want to make good renders, and are going beyond simply "load content and render", you're going to be fiddling with something: materials, morphs, bad joints, hair, pokethru, fitting clothing to poses. Which tools you use to do the fiddling aren't important. You should do what works for you.

M4 looks pretty bad in Poser. It takes work to fix his issues, and more work to find clothing for him. It takes a bit of work to get Genesis 2 in Poser. Different kind of work to fit clothing to it. In the end, neither Genesis nor M4 are perfect in Poser, and both take effort if you want to get a great render out of them.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

I get you paid for it ,so it alt to work perfectly.
So all you half to do is just load and render.

but then again your using a inexpensive app
and you only paid $10.00 for the out fit.

So is it reasonable to expect perfection ?

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - I get you paid for it ,so it alt to work perfectly.
So all you half to do is just load and render.

but then again your using a inexpensive app
and you only paid $10.00 for the out fit.

So is it reasonable to expect perfection ?

No. I don't expect perfection. I expect to have to "jump through hoops" before I get my scene up to my standards. :) I'm okay with that.

---

PoserPro 2014, PS CS5.5 Ext, Nikon D300. Win 8, i7-4770 @ 3.4 GHz, AMD Radeon 8570, 12 GB RAM.

I had been commenting on a thread such as this on the "other" site and like all of the others they locked it even if the thread itself was not negative in any way.  

So I have my doubts about Genesis 2?  Those of us who are not Studio cheerleaders are speaking our minds and we are hoping that something better might come out of it all.  I thought they would have made a difference with Genesis 2, guess not.

I am concerned about the skin stretching that has happened when converting from M4/V4 to Genesis, and if that still happens with the newer figures.  

See; I am asking these questions to see if I want to push forward, and I want to see what others have gone through.  If I post the question in a thread praising the figures I will not get an answer that does not include a gushy response about how the figure is wonderful.  Therefore I post in a thread where commenters are both pro Gen2 and against it.  

You see, I am not endowed with hundreds to spend on these toys, as that is all they are to me.  These programs are not money makers for me, I sell art that I create with my own two hands. So maybe my heart is not into it as much as the companies think it should be.  

I have to ask these questions. I've no other choice.

Sorry to sound so negative but to see my questions and concerns be so easy to toss aside by companies that I once respected and honestly helped fund to get to this point, kind of brings me down.

Quote - > Quote - I get you paid for it ,so it alt to work perfectly.

So all you half to do is just load and render.

but then again your using a inexpensive app
and you only paid $10.00 for the out fit.

So is it reasonable to expect perfection ?

No. I don't expect perfection. I expect to have to "jump through hoops" before I get my scene up to my standards. :) I'm okay with that.

since it's right below your post i can see how it would be taken that way but My coment wasn't aim at you.just wanted ya to know :)

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - I had been commenting on a thread such as this on the "other" site and like all of the others they locked it even if the thread itself was not negative in any way.  

So I have my doubts about Genesis 2?  Those of us who are not Studio cheerleaders are speaking our minds and we are hoping that something better might come out of it all.  I thought they would have made a difference with Genesis 2, guess not.

I am concerned about the skin stretching that has happened when converting from M4/V4 to Genesis, and if that still happens with the newer figures.  

See; I am asking these questions to see if I want to push forward, and I want to see what others have gone through.  If I post the question in a thread praising the figures I will not get an answer that does not include a gushy response about how the figure is wonderful.  Therefore I post in a thread where commenters are both pro Gen2 and against it.  

You see, I am not endowed with hundreds to spend on these toys, as that is all they are to me.  These programs are not money makers for me, I sell art that I create with my own two hands. So maybe my heart is not into it as much as the companies think it should be.  

I have to ask these questions. I've no other choice.

Sorry to sound so negative but to see my questions and concerns be so easy to toss aside by companies that I once respected and honestly helped fund to get to this point, kind of brings me down.

Unfortunately these weren't the things you were asking in the other thread before it was locked. It was the same type of things that were said back in november when the thread was created and necro'd back to life; thus the mods locked it because nothing new was added to the conversation. Now if you had actually asked if there were issues with UVs, that would have brought something different and a topic someone could answer for you. However you merely stated that you didn't want to lose your investment and that you'd be afraid you'd invest in genesis and then genesis 3 would come along and you thought tech was moving too fast and alienating customers... that was covered multiple times by multiple people in the thread so the mods locked it.

The thing to take from it is this:

A figure should stand on its own. Not everything not made for it is not going to look good on a different figure; things may be compatible, not identical. The compatibility is there for "good enough", but if exactness is a criteria you're probably better off staying with what you have. Benefits only come when using things actually designed for that figure; using anything else will mostly take some work to get it good enough.

We all have different needs, goals and incomes to dedicate to 3D content, if you have a question that you're unsure of, be specific and ask that question, but don't repeat the same thing that others said multiple times in the last few pages several months ago. That's when the mods see that nothing new is going on and locks the thread.

Quote - > Quote - I had been commenting on a thread such as this on the "other" site and like all of the others they locked it even if the thread itself was not negative in any way.  

So I have my doubts about Genesis 2?  Those of us who are not Studio cheerleaders are speaking our minds and we are hoping that something better might come out of it all.  I thought they would have made a difference with Genesis 2, guess not.

I am concerned about the skin stretching that has happened when converting from M4/V4 to Genesis, and if that still happens with the newer figures.  

See; I am asking these questions to see if I want to push forward, and I want to see what others have gone through.  If I post the question in a thread praising the figures I will not get an answer that does not include a gushy response about how the figure is wonderful.  Therefore I post in a thread where commenters are both pro Gen2 and against it.  

You see, I am not endowed with hundreds to spend on these toys, as that is all they are to me.  These programs are not money makers for me, I sell art that I create with my own two hands. So maybe my heart is not into it as much as the companies think it should be.  

I have to ask these questions. I've no other choice.

Sorry to sound so negative but to see my questions and concerns be so easy to toss aside by companies that I once respected and honestly helped fund to get to this point, kind of brings me down.

Unfortunately these weren't the things you were asking in the other thread before it was locked. It was the same type of things that were said back in november when the thread was created and necro'd back to life; thus the mods locked it because nothing new was added to the conversation. Now if you had actually asked if there were issues with UVs, that would have brought something different and a topic someone could answer for you. However you merely stated that you didn't want to lose your investment and that you'd be afraid you'd invest in genesis and then genesis 3 would come along and you thought tech was moving too fast and alienating customers... that was covered multiple times by multiple people in the thread so the mods locked it.

The thing to take from it is this:

A figure should stand on its own. Not everything not made for it is not going to look good on a different figure; things may be compatible, not identical. The compatibility is there for "good enough", but if exactness is a criteria you're probably better off staying with what you have. Benefits only come when using things actually designed for that figure; using anything else will mostly take some work to get it good enough.

We all have different needs, goals and incomes to dedicate to 3D content, if you have a question that you're unsure of, be specific and ask that question, but don't repeat the same thing that others said multiple times in the last few pages several months ago. That's when the mods see that nothing new is going on and locks the thread.

I would prefer not to have to quote my own posts from there.  The ones where i did ask these conversion questions.   Others were aware of my questions?    As for asking, I do not want to sound rude but super pro genesis users are not going to be honest without blasting the older figures or my resistance to upgrade.  You have proven that.  Andfor my other comments, I was new to that thread so as far as I was concerned it was not old business. Once again, I am not trying to be rude but really?   This is what I am talking about.    If this topis is old and boring then why keep posting in threads like these?

I do not ask This is a real issue for us and we are asking for a real solution.  The uproar this continues to bring should say something.  Would it be better that we didnt care at all?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I had been commenting on a thread such as this on the "other" site and like all of the others they locked it even if the thread itself was not negative in any way.  

So I have my doubts about Genesis 2?  Those of us who are not Studio cheerleaders are speaking our minds and we are hoping that something better might come out of it all.  I thought they would have made a difference with Genesis 2, guess not.

I am concerned about the skin stretching that has happened when converting from M4/V4 to Genesis, and if that still happens with the newer figures.  

See; I am asking these questions to see if I want to push forward, and I want to see what others have gone through.  If I post the question in a thread praising the figures I will not get an answer that does not include a gushy response about how the figure is wonderful.  Therefore I post in a thread where commenters are both pro Gen2 and against it.  

You see, I am not endowed with hundreds to spend on these toys, as that is all they are to me.  These programs are not money makers for me, I sell art that I create with my own two hands. So maybe my heart is not into it as much as the companies think it should be.  

I have to ask these questions. I've no other choice.

Sorry to sound so negative but to see my questions and concerns be so easy to toss aside by companies that I once respected and honestly helped fund to get to this point, kind of brings me down.

Unfortunately these weren't the things you were asking in the other thread before it was locked. It was the same type of things that were said back in november when the thread was created and necro'd back to life; thus the mods locked it because nothing new was added to the conversation. Now if you had actually asked if there were issues with UVs, that would have brought something different and a topic someone could answer for you. However you merely stated that you didn't want to lose your investment and that you'd be afraid you'd invest in genesis and then genesis 3 would come along and you thought tech was moving too fast and alienating customers... that was covered multiple times by multiple people in the thread so the mods locked it.

The thing to take from it is this:

A figure should stand on its own. Not everything not made for it is not going to look good on a different figure; things may be compatible, not identical. The compatibility is there for "good enough", but if exactness is a criteria you're probably better off staying with what you have. Benefits only come when using things actually designed for that figure; using anything else will mostly take some work to get it good enough.

We all have different needs, goals and incomes to dedicate to 3D content, if you have a question that you're unsure of, be specific and ask that question, but don't repeat the same thing that others said multiple times in the last few pages several months ago. That's when the mods see that nothing new is going on and locks the thread.

I would prefer not to have to quote my own posts from there.  The ones where i did ask these conversion questions.   Others were aware of my questions?    As for asking, I do not want to sound rude but super pro genesis users are not going to be honest without blasting the older figures or my resistance to upgrade.  You have proven that.  Andfor my other comments, I was new to that thread so as far as I was concerned it was not old business. Once again, I am not trying to be rude but really?   This is what I am talking about.   

Yes, but you referred to that thread as somehow the mods were stifling your speech and made it seem like you were a victim, which did not occur. You simply added nothing new after the mods pointed out the same thing when the thread was necro'd 8 months later. So if you didn't want to discuss that thread, then probably you shouldn't have bought it up.  But as I said, you didn't ask questions, you made a statement about not wanting to give up an investment... there's a difference. If you actually asked the question you posted here rather than say daz isn't listening to their customers and about tech moving too fast, then it would have added something to the thread and wouldn't have been locked. But to make it sound like the "pro DAZ-ers" were ruining your opportunity to discuss something that been rehashed so many times isn't correct. It's really poor taste to even bring this to another forum to drum up sympathy. If people wish to take a look at the thread and see what I'm saying is correct or not, they're more than welcome to look. 

Quote - > Quote - Thought I'd chime in before the discussion DOES get locked. I've fiddled with Genesis and Dawn. They both have their positives and negatives. My only interest is whether they will help me make better art more efficiently. Right now the answer is no because none of them will increase my results regarding concept, color, lighting, or composition. These are the improvements I'm currently seeking in my artwork. Nor will they help me with my postworking (though they might cut down the need in some instances). The time and cost to rebuy, relearn, translate, transfer and emulate is not equal to the potential benefit to my finished product.

For those that wonder how people can use old technology it's because the tech is just a means to an end not the end itself. I'll upgrade my OS, computer, software and other tools when it provides a clear benefit, not when a tech company decides to release a new product.

 

I think your right although I personally feel many see it in far more black and white terms and feel that anyone not for Genesis is therefore against.  I am not against new tech but it has to give me benefit in either what I can do or make it easier to do what I do already.  Like you I do not feel the proven cost:benefits are there at the moment.  Others have different aims and different goals and the benefit may be there for them. 

Which is another reason why I do read Genesis threads and do not like to see them locked for, not only do others use Genesis in Poser, there may come and time when the benefits do outway the costs.

 

You and I both. ;)  I bought out Genesis less then a year ago because I believed in the greatness of the product, but even that figure is being pushed aside.  Luckily for me the vendors I cared about who made stuff for that figure are still going strong. ;)

It's just the handling of the subject has been lacking at best. 

I don't know but I thought that Genesis 2 was going to be better, they had a chance to work on the compatibility issue but instead just gave us all another $30 dollar expense in Genx 2.  Is that not the same as buying the morph packs for the older figures?

Until you realize that sales usually do not apply to that program.  At least when Daz made their own morph packs you could usually see them discounted in the annual sales if you could not afford to buy them full price because they were Daz originals. They made the PC worth getting, but not anymore.  

Geesh I still have to upgrade my version of Poser to use it without Studio, and those problems are scaring me even more.  I buy the newish upgrade and then have the issues that others seem to have just to make the figures work.  But my Gen 4 clan will still do just fine.  See yet another issue.

I mean we all could care less and move on, but it seems some of us actually care about the companies still, and maybe we care to move forward but there are many things giving us cause not to.  For me it's the cost of upgrading.

Either I spend money on this scattered figure and programs to use it, or I spend my money on breaking my M4/V4 wishlists down.  So I support my fav M4/V4 vendors and that is my choice.  If posting my complaints in a hope for some support makes me a villain in the 3d world then so be it.

I can deal with that.

 

 

 

Malem3dia, you aren't going to bait me like you have done with others.  Sorry ;)

Quote -  

Malem3dia, you aren't going to bait me like you have done with others.  Sorry ;)

Not baiting but this post just made my point about what I previously said.

Oh and you know you could transfer those morphs between genesis versions for free? The compatibility is there if you asked; I even mentioned how to get gen4 shoes working in that thread as a solution, but that was generally ignored. GenX is just for the convenience for people not wanting to dive into the built in tools. That's when asking questions rather than airing complains is better in the long run.

Male_Media you're being unfair. Attacking Direwrath over an unnamed thread in an unnamed forum is out of line. His/her questions are valid and deserve unbiased answers regardless of what was said in some other forum. If you have a direct answer for those questions then please share them, but keep your personal attacks and opinions of other members out of it.

@Direwrath: In terms of texture stretching, I can't tell you for sure if it doesn't happen. There's always going to be exceptions. The quality of the texture will have a lot to do with how well it works on a model it wasn't originally designed for, so that means that some Gen4 textures will look a lot better on Genesis than others. Same is the case with using V4 UVs on Dawn or any other figure. UV swapping is a great feature, but UVs from one model are never going to work quite as well as they do on the original. Genesis has a much lower poly count than V4/M4, but both models are based on the same mesh, so you're not going to get as much distortion as you might if the donor mesh was nothing at all like the one you're using it's UVs on. Also, using high res textures will help as well, since there is more color information to be used. I'd test it on at least a 4k map and see how it holds up. 

I'm not as familiar with Genesis as others around here are, but so far I haven't had any problems that make Genesis unusable for me. In fact I've been enjoying learning how to work with it and have finally started adding Genesis figures to my runtime. 

 

~Shane

Quote - Male_Media you're being unfair. Attacking Direwrath over an unnamed thread in an unnamed forum is out of line. His/her questions are valid and deserve unbiased answers regardless of what was said in some other forum. If you have a direct answer for those questions then please share them, but keep your personal attacks and opinions of other members out of it.

Actually, I don't think so. This happens far too much on your forum, where a member doesn't do what they say they did on another forum, then when a thread gets locked or they get banned, they run to your forum to complain. Most times they make it seem like they were just simply doing something write and they were wronged by those "draconian" mods. I remember one person even cursed out the mods one time and then made it seem like all they did was ask a question why DAZ couldn't just make what they wanted. That's not right at all.

From what I've been told and seen previously it is against your TOS to complain about another sites policies, and that's pretty much what happened here. And you've said many times that this isn't a complaint board for other companies. I'll be glad to send you the URL offline so you may see it if you want to discuss it further. I'm always glad to offer to answer questions regarding genesis if questions are asked, but it just wasn't done in this case.

No site or person was mentioned specifically by name and no specific site policies were being criticized as far as I can tell. It looks like a simple statement to me. I'm not interested in reading the thread unless it is one from here on Renderosity. 

As for the question, it's right here, though more in the form of a statement:

Quote - Direwrath said:
I am concerned about the skin stretching that has happened when converting from M4/V4 to Genesis, and if that still happens with the newer figures.  

 And since you have a mind to argue with me I'll just lock the thread. This way the argument is over on all accounts. 

Rant threads are rarely productive as it is.